Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[Gammagooey]

never give up hope ut

there is always a chance

you just have to believe in it

[Gammagooey]

you can stay on cdb if you're not going to be around at deadline though

i'm basically making a counterwagon to the thing i pushed for the last 4 days

its fine

[Gammagooey]

UNVOTE:

if you don't have an opinion on mastin either vote her or give a damn good alternative.

[Gammagooey]

there are so many godamn voices

with so many godamn townreads

that all need to basically need to shut the hell up about everything that they aren't borderline willing to bet the game on. There are four scum in the game and zero people that people can collectively agree is a scumread. Some townreads are wrong, and if isn't strong enough to literally stick your heads in a guillotine for it, I don't care.

Singer, Actiondan has two votes, including yours, after everyone's had plenty of time to hop on him instead of CDB. If you really REALLY think he's scum then push it hard, or go do something else.

[Gammagooey]

Titus has ZERO votes on her by the way, for comparison.

[Gammagooey]

mastin is literally doing the same gambit she did with a third of the people here in Drawn on Arrival.

granted, it was a town gambit there

but it's a pile of horseshit and townreading her for that is awful. if you think she's town for her play, i'll listen.

[Gammagooey]

My team is yelling at me to stop this CDB wagon and I don't really know how.

As I'm trying to say, you have basically 3 choices.

1) vote mastin
2) try to make a convincing enough argument against AD that people will disregard their town reads on him and vote him
3) try to make another wagon happen over mastin or CDB by going very, very into another potentially scum player's play.

arguments for people as town are not remotely good enough without a scum alternative to back it up.

[Gammagooey]

words

mastin opinion plz

[Gammagooey]

i'm pretty much gone for the next few hours

ffery you're in charge of poking anyone who comes into the thread but doesn't comment on mastin

[Gammagooey]

So you want to quicklynch someone who is crumbing being dead before the end of the game. In this game. I would rather lynch CDB.

fuck role bullshit
especially fuck softclaimed role bullshit

Read on mastins play please

@ffery- dont want to lynch either of them.

[Gammagooey]

I would bet $20 on mastin fakeclaiming dying early regardless of her alignment here

So do better please

[Gammagooey]

don't think esp getting baned is optimal but it's a pile of whatever if other people really want it. If we bane someone that is not esp then DO NOT CLAIM IF YOU MIGHT GET BANED i am overstating this a little but it is important given that it's one night of not doing things is way less bad than giving the scum much better targets for bullshit

would rather keep duplicate locked since there are no dead scum yet.

that already happened i guess

I am not going to give a shit about this game for the next few days so I can do and enjoy life things that are not mafia for a while.

@Titus why on earth do you think GiF thought their role was a doc?

Bane: mastin2

[Gammagooey]

because i think she's more likely to be scum than most of the game but given yesterday she's not going to get lynched tomorrow.

[Gammagooey]

gut

if i looked back at her iso i could probably explain it but i am p. serious about not giving a shit right now

ask me again in 2 RL days if it still matters

[Gammagooey]

tbf to singer

we were all quite drunk at that point

i was basically incapacitated when deadline came around

[Gammagooey]

METAPHORS

[Gammagooey]

We all went to brewgaloo downtown and we came back and were drunk

I crashed for several hours pretty much immediately after

[Gammagooey]

I godamn despise all this softclaiming bullshit

I think mastin's very, very capable of softclaiming a powerful role as scum to avoid getting baned here but given that she's claimed *something mysterious and helpful* nobody else is going to base their vote on whether they actually think she's scum or not.

I am putting her on a "list" which is only her, of people that will either find scum with role bullshit or die by mj day 4 or get lynched.

and speaking of stupid bullshit since titus just said she'd volunteer to be baned first

Bane: Titus

[Gammagooey]

oh so this can actually happen

woo

Bane:mastin2

[Gammagooey]

this game is a lot more fun if you stop caring for a few days

especially advised since really like 80% of today is just bullshit given that it's just banes and boons

pro-tips

[Gammagooey]

Bane: ActionDan

[Gammagooey]

I don't think cheetory looks nearly as town as everyone else seems to but baneing him over everyone else doesn't seem like something that's going to happen in two or so days and I don't think it's even remotely worth the sludgeslide of words that would be required to make it happen, especially when he's not even a strong scum read.

I wanted to be ACTUALLY cheeky about something in this game to try to make scum's minor night choices less predictable but don't bane UT because I fully intend to help kill him tomorrow. I've kept seeing little genuine things from him over and over like with mastin and his forgetting ffery and his general frustration at the game but none of them are actually scumhunting, and none of them are things that he wouldn't or couldn't actually feel and believe as scum.

Also, I swear if I could flip a switch that would incinerate every person who isn't voting for something halfway through every day I would do it without hesitating for a second. Not trying to actually make something happen now after the shitshow that was trying to get a lynch at deadline yesterday is awful.

[Gammagooey]

Congrats on making the hedgiest post ever Gamma.

thank you i will take my award in the form of a garden maze

there is pretty clearly a difference between thinking you might be scum when half the people think you're a magical town word-wizard and actually pushing to make bad things happen to you

don't be bitchin'

also UT wagon is still really dumb unless people ACTUALLY want to bane and lynch the same person. which nobody actually does they're just being dumb.

[Gammagooey]

im 2 spoopy 4 u

TSO showing up after a ten day absence with what he did was garbage. If deadline wasn't a thing mayyybe I would have probably still been okay with it but pushed someone else that i thought was better but it looked scummy and I had just railed against singer for a long while and gotten absolutely no traction.

[Gammagooey]

if you actually want to know my alignment read over my posts about bulba and singer and cdb.

i've put more focused effort into actually pushing people I've thought were scum, challenging people to explain what I've thought were shitty reads on them, and trying to make the game FUNCTION than pretty much anyone else in the game. and quite honestly me putting in that much effort and pushing that hard as scum is counterproductive in addition to being exhausting and I don't do it because of that.

@tth-i swear i've already talked about that. i'll iso myself and if i'm wrong i'll do it soon.

[Gammagooey]

ffery I don't really see a big reason to think TSO will flip scum but if you're really confident in it I can hop on anyway. Did go through his iso and I still do like his posting around march 31st but it's not impossible to be coming from scum looking back at it.

gonna do this since his popping in and mentioning regfan's reads while not trying to push AD's lynch or explain why he isn't putting stock into regfan's AD read does seem actually pretty bad.

VOTE: TSO

[Gammagooey]

ffery I don't really see a big reason to think TSO will flip scum but if you're really confident in it I can hop on anyway. Did go through his iso and I still do like his posting around march 31st but it's not impossible to be coming from scum looking back at it.

gonna do this since his popping in and mentioning regfan's reads while not trying to push AD's lynch or explain why he isn't putting stock into regfan's AD read does seem actually pretty bad.

VOTE: TSO

TSO never referenced regfan's reads. What were you talking about?

he definitely posted a list of teammates reads and then did literally nothing with them except bitch when people asked him about them and his vote on actiondan.

might have been kagami instead of regfan?

[Gammagooey]

and to be fair to cheetory I do see why it's probably a little : / for people to be commenting on how they think he's scum and kind of sort of putting him down when he's been pretty damn active and generally pro-town looking

it's just that letting a generally pro-town looking scum get away with posturing that he's obvtown after people have stopped giving a shit about the game tends to lead to AWFUL, AWFUL, TERRIBLE things.

[Gammagooey]

@TTH, can we bane UT, then lynch Vezok or Cheetory. We have to get through the bane to get you your boon.

UT is a scapegoat, I suspect mostly because he's a smart ass.

as miserable as this game's first two days have been, UT is a good player. Look at Reckoning 3 if you want to go into meta bullshit.

UT hasn't actually tried to find scum this game. not at all. He would absolutely resort to just murdering generally scummy people at deadline but he hasn't been trying to push anything himself at all, he's been asking me bullshit about whether I'm scum instead of actually trying to read me, and all of his mastin and titus bullshit is completely genuine but posting about player's being shitty and arrogant and insufferable is not something that only comes from town UT.

[Gammagooey]

@AD, You can throw yourself a pity party while voting to bane town or you can do something about it. Like bane scum.

but i am baning scum.

@gamma, uneccessary paranoia hurts more than constant vigilance imo.

while I'm alive I'm really pretty fine just leaving cheetory alone for today.

but if I were to die and everyone immediately went 'cheet's conftown look how all the towns thought cheet was town' I would start looking for a gun to put to my head.

Also CHEETORY DO YOU WANT UT LYNCHED? IF SO DO SOMETHING ELSE WITH YOUR BANE GODAMN.

[Gammagooey]

UT hasn't actually tried to find scum this game.

not at all. He would absolutely resort to just murdering generally scummy people at deadline but he hasn't been trying to push anything himself at all, he's been asking me bullshit about whether I'm scum instead of actually trying to read me, and all of his mastin and titus bullshit is completely genuine but posting about player's being shitty and arrogant and insufferable is not something that only comes from town UT.

That's a good point.

...and if vezok flips scum, his ISO gets even worse but now I'm getting ahead of myself.

don't do this

mostly because vezok's very likely town
but also because herpaderr let's chain all the reads is another thing that leads to sadness and suffering

We could bane Bulbazak again for shits and giggles.

I mean
I dunno if it's a good decision
but I totally would

[Gammagooey]

mostly because vezok's very likely town

Prove it.

read my posts day 1 about him
his fluency of read on me and actually PUSHING to have empire not be baned without reasons instead of the usual "here's reasons why X is town let me say that and not give a shit about it and let it happen" is coming from town and how he responded to people day 1 screams town motivation.

[Gammagooey]

mostly because vezok's very likely town

Prove it.

read my posts day 1 about him
his fluency of read on me and actually PUSHING to have empire not be baned without reasons instead of the usual "here's reasons why X is town let me say that and not give a shit about it and let it happen" is coming from town and how he responded to people day 1 screams town motivation.

Really, we're reaching all the way back to the fucking Minor Day 1 bane vote?
Your read is so past the expiration date, it has mold growing on it.

nope

I have a hell of a lot more confidence in my town read on him for absolutely genuine town behavior than anyone being town read for WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS at this point in the game. There's so much godamn useless distracting noise.

[Gammagooey]

Exactly. vezok's alignment hasn't changed and therefore his town motivation should be

bleeding

through in his recent stuff too, right?

i literally don't understand how you can think this and be railing about the tso lynch.

i cannot give enough of a fuck to go repost all the shit in my iso right now. maybe later but probably not.

[Gammagooey]

i personally think his current stuff also looks a little town, just not as blatantly town as yesterday.

tired of talking about this tbh, he's almost definitely not getting lynched tomorrow anyway and if it looks like he might I'll rail about it then.

If someone wants a bane to happen that isn't AD or Esp or UT if people really want to bane him instead of lynching him at this point I want a STRONG ACTUALLY-GIVING-A-SHIT push for it, otherwise let's get this fucking done so we don't pull another OH WOOPS WE RAN OUT OF TIME AGAIN OH WELL with the boon vote.

[Gammagooey]

If a deadline is coming up, I might vote my granny if I thought she looked at me funny and there was a chance she might flip scum.

Also CHEETORY DO YOU WANT UT LYNCHED? IF SO DO SOMETHING ELSE WITH YOUR BANE GODAMN.

iuno.
I think I want DVlynch the most right now.
UT's swimming around in my top 3.
I haven't looked at CDB since yesterday because I don't really want to but I wanted to lynch him more than UT and now I don't know anymore.
plbbttt.

you especially

give a shit and make a bane push. I don't care on who, but you are part of the apathy that is fucking drowning this game.

[Gammagooey]

This is a pet townread based on intuition.

Rail all you want. You're wasting your breath.

you missed all the time-relevant context of his posts by not being here.

if you really want to fight me on it then do it tomorrow.

[Gammagooey]

vezok is basically the only person I'm willing to stick my neck out for and say absolutely not. I'd prefer not esp either but if you point to basically anyone else in the game who can actually get support for a lynch at this point I'll probably say fuck it let's get it done.

[Gammagooey]

@cheet-k thanks

if it gets bigger than the AD wagon I'll hop on because my role for the rest of the day is basically just going to be lord and master of getting things done

[Gammagooey]

Here UT,

have a vote

VOTE: UT

(also you may include a gif for this if you so please)

do you want UT dead tomorrow

yes or no

[Gammagooey]

eh

thats fine then

but seriously I am going to be pushing real hard to make UT dead and there are actually other people that will also make that happen.

[Gammagooey]

Sigh this is going to make UT so much harder to lynch tomorrow because of people seeping around with "optimal" bullshit
whatever, onto boons

[Gammagooey]

bane:ut

[Gammagooey]

ugggh

this boon has so much potential downside.

actually

Boon: Oversoul

[Gammagooey]

i do not support giving the boon to people who have been forced to claim. (cdb and mastin)

oversoul looks town and was one of the god-tier town of ffery's read list and is probably widely town-read enough for it to actually happen.

[Gammagooey]

and oversoul you are not allowed to say anything about whether or not you are "okay" with being booned

NO SOFTCLAIMS FOR A BETTER FUTURE

[Gammagooey]

every single one of my teammates are not only dead but have all been lynched and have all flipped town.

and uh there's plenty to read

go reread the past 180 pages and come back or something

it probably won't be helpful but there's a chance that you absorb so much information that you reach enlightenment and become a messiah

that'd be nice

[Gammagooey]

hey TTH can you say why you're town reading cdb so I can probably be less paranoid about him

cause the after he thought he was lynched stuff was very good but really that's the only reason i'm not still trying to kill him

[Gammagooey]

Ugggh

I really don't actually want to boon CDB here

the risk of him being scum and getting two free kills seems waaaay worse than the bonus of giving him the option to track anyone tonight. like if we were down to 2 scum or something then it'd be great but i don't see it actually being useful for catching people at this point, and it doesn't even force him to fake useful results if he's scum since he can just say he was roleblocked.

and I'm not anywhere near confident enough about him being town to really justify ignoring that.

[Gammagooey]

NO. Fuck off. Cdb was at l-1 and you unvoted. You don't think he's scum. This is posturing. I'm advocating you get lynched asap.

confidence is the main word here

i think there's decentish reasons to townread pretty much anyone in the game at this point
and i do think he's likely town, but some of my and other people's general town reads are going to be wrong and playing as if that weren't the case is pretty shortsighted

I think the benefit we get for booning him correctly is very small compared to the potential downside of being wrong about his alignment.

[Gammagooey]

given how hard i pushed to get actual LYNCHES through yesterday as opposed to this junk that's a pretty silly assumption.

i'll be on-site in 8 hours or so, if tth or someone else wants to tell me why they think cdb getting booned would be likely to be useful then i'd prob be willing to do it.

[Gammagooey]

I think that "scum didn't detect scummy players" is a very, very bad assumption given that they know that they can be traced by anyone who suspects them and need to have decent reasons for doing that unless they think they won't be detected at all or are Viktor and don't have to care.

Give me details about cdb being town for his actual play and not night action garbage and i'll probably hammer the boon on him after I get off work.

[Gammagooey]

that's pretty fair i guess, i probably should go over his posting about aronis again but it's probably not going to happen with all the other of literally thousands of posts to sort through.

and hito's actually on now so i'll speed this up a bit

Boon: CDB

[Gammagooey]

Vote: UT

yes he's already baned

he's also by far the likeliest person out of anyone to flip scum imo and godamn does a scum flip need to happen to cut through all the garbage content this game's created so far, in addition to not giving him a minor night action still being a good thing to do.

[Gammagooey]

we might actually want to claim failed/non-failed traces on people to see if anyone sticks out as Viktor

but I'd rather that wait until after the first lynch at least

[Gammagooey]

prob only non-failed if 2+ people have a failed trace on someone

[Gammagooey]

what i'm saying is if he isn't dead he'll get another detect and trace tomorrow night.

[Gammagooey]

*detect or trace

[Gammagooey]

dv looked town early and ffery loved a lot of it

why do you think ut wagon is dumb?

[Gammagooey]

Gamma might just be dumb, but his vote rubs me the wrong way too because he's usually not this dumb as town

die

[Gammagooey]

you're really gonna have to nightkill me then :3

uh huh

do you wanna actually make an attempt of calling my actual posting in this game scummy or do you wanna just stick with 'durrrr he's voting me can't decide if dumb or scum oh nooooo'

[Gammagooey]

oooh

whys it scummy

[Gammagooey]

UT wagon is dumb because he's baned.

fuck you

lynch scum

ignore bullshit incentives to not lynch scum

[Gammagooey]

man

gamma

why you so salty

cause you're obvscum

why am i scum

[Gammagooey]

so why are we fellating ffer's reads and not GiF's or TSOs?

they're confirmed town too

why am i scum

[Gammagooey]

your actual posting in this game is scummy

PROBABLY YOUR ROLE PM

I DUNNO MAN

I'M NOT GONNA TALK YOU INTO ACKNOWLEDGING IT SO HOW ABOUT YOU JUST STFU WITH THIS BULLSHIT

die

[Gammagooey]

I'M NOT GONNA TALK YOU INTO ACKNOWLEDGING IT SO HOW ABOUT YOU JUST STFU WITH THIS BULLSHIT

also

That's pretty obviously not the point

the point is that I think it'll be pretty obvious to the rest of the game if you actually posted reasons for why you supposedly think I'm scum that it's an indefensible pile of horseshit.

[Gammagooey]

I am going to be very very blunt.

we, as a collective town, are not competent and cohesive enough to lynch two scum today that do not include UT. There are too many people all pulling in too many directions with very little actual analysis and reconsideration of their own individual reads. We can maybe get a second scum lynch after UT's flipped scum, or maybe even lynch one scum without it, but thinking that we as a group are good enough to self-evaluate our reads and collectively lynch two scum players if they aren't playing horrifically is borderline insane when we couldn't even get a second lynch yesterday.

UT is scum because he hasn't put in the actual effort of trying to find scum this game, and all of his genuine-looking posts are things he would be feeling as scum as well. His shitting on ffery's reads over and over again is a crutch he's using to avoid posting actual content and reads of his own, and his "read" on me is a reactive piece of trash that has no actual basis on my posting in the game.

[Gammagooey]

espy's approach to the game I think is very likely coming from a town mindset. I could be wrong, but his attacks and actions make a lot more sense coming from town than scum.

vezok is also basically the most obvious town in the game. rereading bulba and marquis is probably something that should happen though.

[Gammagooey]

Oversoul I think you're confusing innattentiveness and tbf a general lack of care and thoroughness for actual scum motivation.

List out the assumptions you're making for Espeonage deciding to claim that, in that particular way, as scum.

-He's aware that people might think him detecting Cheet might look scummy (he says this in one of his posts)
-If he's scum, he chose to do that action for a particular reason. There are a rare few instances but going into a game and deciding "I'm going to do something that doesn't benefit OR harm me at all and then claim that as a gambit" isn't something that is ordinary for damn good reason.
-So why do it then- do you think that he thought he would be townread by claiming it? I don't see why, especially when he's saying that he knows other people could see it as scummy
-Do you think he claimed it to cover up an action that benefits scum? If he's worried enough to claim it in case people traced him, why do that action instead of trying to get traced visiting someone that looks scummy, and possibly influencing their read that way? What motivation would scum have to detect someone, then immediately claim that detect, making it look much worse for Esp-scum if Cheet dies soon, especially when Esp's already claimed VT and can't visit Cheet himself without worrying about being caught scum?

Like there are a few kind of outlandish ways that would make it possible for scum to benefit from it and make it worth it for Esp to claim it, but actually thinking that they're the most likely possibilities seems pretty wrong to me.

And I think we've all had games where we lunged after a lynch because someone was just too bad and was making too many poor decisions to be town and then had be wrong. It's a reasonable suspicion but I don't think he's trying to get away with anything here, I think he just made some stupid assumptions on how the detects would work and ran with it, and I still think his suspicions on Tammy and Titus were coming from town.

[Gammagooey]

this entire conversation is useless garbage

cheet if you want DV lynched go find some posts of his you think are scummy and point out why. being whiny about people valuing ffery's detailed (though not final) read on DV more than the only thing I actually remember you saying about him being scum (being overly apologetic and not showing up to actually play the game since forever ago) is dumb.

also @TTH I will probably not get around to rereading bulba for another RL day or two. did manage to not look at your spoiler for when i do get around to it.

[Gammagooey]

I did but it wasn't particularly detailed because there aren't much details to give.

TSO coming back into the game the way he did looked really bad and I thought it was bad enough to overlook him looking town earlier in the game, especially with us having about 4 RL days to get two lynches done.

[Gammagooey]

Townbloc is a jargon with a definition

Dont play dumb

You have spouted an actually astonishing amount of whining bullshit instead of content

How big of a wagon are you waiting on before you actually try to make some bullshit reasons about why I'm scum?

[Gammagooey]

This is me reminding everyone that UT still hasn't come up with anything about why my posts were scummy after bullshitting that I looked bad for voting him

Also that CDB's very right about his tone being off

Both scum and town UT tend to be a pretty content light, at least early on

but town UT is biting and witty and giving people shit for being bad players

while

attacking people and pursuing his reads

whereas UT here is being bitchy and giving people shit as a filler to take the place of actual thoughts and content.

[Gammagooey]

started rereading bulba but haven't finished yet, will tonight.

from what I have reread:

-his very early posts felt more like telling people things than scumhunting to me (#341 in particular) and his conversation with deas sure is a lot of not-scumhunting and he had a lot of little shitty jabs at people in his quote walls that felt pretty bad (#1207)
-#372 talks about not wanting to bane UT for him being a wait and see read and makes more jabs at Deas, and I could actually use someone else's opinion on this

Look, I get that you're lost right now, but can you please not let yourself form judgements around who appeals to your emotional side. You're doing an awful lot of that right now, and I'm afraid you're not looking at things objectively. Cheetory was not being indecisive about Zar. He was trying to dismantle Tammy's push on Zar while telling Zar to stop scumming it up.

Because I do actually like the bluntness of the explanation but could see it maybe coming from scum that's just trying to project a sense of "i'm clearly not scum and everyone who's thinking that is obviously wrong".


His recent stuff looks fairly good from what I remember- the confidence he's showing in his reads seems genuine to me and his sort-of explanation of his read on vezok looked good. I think he's slightly more likely to be town than not but also that a lot of what he's doing is capable of being faked by scum. I'll be back with more late tonight.

Also UT is still obvscum.
No, seriously. I don't fuck around with false confidence bullshit like tons of people will with every read they push. His attack on me was HORRIFICALLY bad, was and is completely unsupported, and is blatantly more likely to be coming from a scum mindset of 'say gamma could be scum but maybe isn't and is just dumb to discredit him' instead of a town one of actually weighing/considering my pushes on singer and CDB, or literally anything else I've done in the game or any feelings he had about my previous posts and taking that into account and mentioning what was bad about them while saying I'm scum.

[Gammagooey]

I don't fuck around with false confidence bullshit like tons of people will with every read they push

Okay.
Tell me what is potentially different between here and with elusive in DoA then? How absolutely confident are you that UT isn't just being a shitter as town?

I've played with UT a pretty decent amount before.

Also, using elusive is fair in this context because I was about as confident as I am now about UT but elusive WAS really really reactive and manipulative in how she reponded to people >.>
I do want to point out that throughout all my pushing on singer and CDB here which I've done a TON of I'm pretty sure I never called them obvscum or said that I was absolutely sure that they were scum. Go through UT's iso and take a look at all the mentions of me. He isn't trying to read me.

[Gammagooey]

UT STILL HASN'T SAID SHIT ABOUT WHY I'M SCUM

AN ALQUIN COUNTERCLAIM IS NOT HAPPENING, AND FUCK EVERYTHING ABOUT THE "ut is candle so he's more likely alquin" FALSE LOGIC

He is not Alquin, he is still obvscum, and fuck every one of you for even considering that it's real

[Gammagooey]

also, I'm Alquin

suck it

let's actually vote for some scums now

WHAT PART OF THIS DOESN'T FUCKING SCREAM OPPORTUNISTIC SCUM CLAIMING TO YOU

HOLY FUCKING SHIT

[Gammagooey]

So fucking give a shit. You know everyone else is being a lazy fucking pile of shit unwilling to examine anything that's actually alignment relevant at this point instead of avoiding ut's wagon for an obvious fakeclaim and the stupidity of "he's baned so don't lynch him"

We MAKE people give a shit. Right now.

[Gammagooey]

no.

alquin will not claim here.

as much as UT is fucking obvscum it is still better to leave him alive and just lynch two other people than have alquin counterclaim here, he's even said it himself his ridiculous fucking "you must be scum because you're counterclaiming alquin because you wouldn't counterclaim alquin as town" utter horseshit.

[Gammagooey]

READ
HIS
FUCKING
POSTS

if you think not only his play but how he claimed it is more likely to be coming from town than scum then I legitimately don't know how the fuck you've endured enough games to still be on this site.

And if you DON'T think it's more likely coming from town than scum but are unwilling to vote him because of the little pings against it, then go back to losing to godfathers and innocent tracker results on scum and shrugging about how you played the odds correctly afterwards so clearly you couldn't have done better than that.

[Gammagooey]

it is not WHEN he claimed

it is HOW he claimed

there was ABSOLUTELY NO previous indication that he even gave a shit about giving lynched

he STILL hasn't come up with ANYTHING about his COMPLETELY MADE-UP read on me

and to top it all of he spouts off about why town wouldn't counterclaim him because it wouldn't be the best play when that's an ABSURD thought process to have when you're supposedly town being counterclaimed by scum for basically no reason at all. vezok I don't want to be mean to you because I know the language barrier makes it more difficult but god fucking damn he is not thinking and acting like town would in his situation.

he's not town cheetory.

[Gammagooey]

fuck every bullshit hypothetical that every one of you want to come up with to justify not lynching UT.

read his POSTS. read what he has DONE. think about the MINDSET OF THE PERSON WHO HAS DONE THOSE THINGS. and if you want to fight for him being town for any of those things then sure, do it. I'll fight you back and I'll win.

[Gammagooey]

oversoul is obvtown and has been pretty close if not already obvtown for a while

vezok is also still obvtown for bulba and anyone else who feels like scumreading him for retarded reasons

[Gammagooey]

he has not said a single word about why my posts make me scum.

he's ASKED me if i'm scum, I think twice, instead of actually trying to find my alignment in any meaningful or legitimate way.

[Gammagooey]

him indicating that he finds me very slightly scummier than he did before and asking me if I am scum is not him trying to find out my alignment.

The one time day 1 I actually tried to engage him and ask him about his reads on a few people he literally said "gamma plz" and nothing else.

[Gammagooey]

Complaining about UT being the ONLY person getting shit for anything when formerfish and Deasvail are the most talked about counterwagons is absolutely 100% wrong.

Saying he's engaging people back when he's clashing with them for completely asinine bullshit while bitching about ffery's reads for filler posts instead of actually trying to get ANYONE ELSE lynched at all for ALL of today until he got run up to a claim.

You are saying absolutely nothing about Untrod Tripod's actual posts and why they are coming from TOWN and not MAFIA, which I think is pretty damn obvious with him dodging saying ANYTHING ABOUT HIS REASONING FOR VOTING ME for several straight days and posting about absolutely irrelevant bullshit instead. I don't see how you can look through UT's iso and say that he is legitimately Looking For & Trying to lynch scum. He's not trying, and for as much generally mischevious dickery he puts into the thread, when he's town you can see he's actually trying to murder scum and biting into people in ways that will give him clues into people's alignments. He's not doing this here.

[Gammagooey]

There's not a chance in hell Oversoul is scum and you know it.

let's not all lose sight of the fact that there are people in this game trying to lynch the claimed Alquin, therefore taking the lock off the scum kills, rather than waiting to see if the scum take him out tonight, which they absolutely should if they're not retarded, because I'm immune to protection

there's no goddamn way scum claims this, and the Oversoul counterclaim clearly came from a place of not thinking about optimal scum strategy too hard because there isn't a world where it's not more efficient to kill me tonight

this is ABSOLUTELY untrue. It buys you another day of living and a potential counterclaim from a town Alquin who's willing to trade themselves for a scum lynch and better information on the second lynch for outing themselves, even though it's not mathmatically the best play nobody here is playing to perfect mathematics for the damn good reason that it isn't godamn scumhunting.

[Gammagooey]

and hey, mayyyyyyyyyybe some of the cause for my dicketry this game is that I knew I had a trump card sitting in my Inbox, which is what made it so goddamn funny to me that people were like omg ut so scum when I'm the fucking IC

your dickery is from either alignment regardless of your role.

your complete lack of giving a shit about progressing the game and finding and lynching mafia is coming from scum.

[Gammagooey]

also HEY UT

HOW ABOUT ANY OF THOSE REASONS FOR MY POSTING BEING FROM SCUM?

[Gammagooey]

UT is clearly and obviously bullshitting as hard as he can to try to come up with reasons for what he's doing not coming from scum.

Oh I forgot, if UT is town, he is dead anyway, why not lynch him? Then we recalibrate for lynch two.

this is not why we fight

we fight to lynch scum who is obviously and desperately reaching out for a reason that could possibly save him, regardless of its obvious holes and nonsensical theories.

we do not fight for bullshit hypotheticals. we do not fight for an easy "might as well" lynch.

We fight to shove through all the incentivized hesistation and bullshit and finally start winning this game.

[Gammagooey]

@Cheet-Because he's fucking obvscum.

He's saying clearly untrue shit to try to avoid talking about his still made-up read on me and to say that he's town for X when everything he's bringing up for reasons for him being town is a pile of fucking lies.

@singer- you can see just as clearly as I can that UT is dodging why he thinks I'm scum over and over again. I understand the hesitation given the risk in lynching the claim in general but this is absolutely what UT would claim as scum and he's making up utter horseshit to try to say otherwise instead of just saying that he probably would but he is alquin and also gamma is scum for actual words that are capable of being typed onto a page.

I don't think you're scum here but UT is going to flip scum, and if you're really going to completely ignore UT dodging why he would read me as scum over and over and Over and OVER AND OVER again then I'm not going to give a shit when you inevitably get wagoned sometime in the next few lynches.

[Gammagooey]

FUCK YOUR FUCKING HYPOTHETICALS.

SCUMHUNT. GO FIND WHY UT IS TOWN OR GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY.

[Gammagooey]

the fact that he hasn't done anything with it is the ENTIRE POINT

he's been posting for days since the and hasn't bothered justifying a reactionary, bullshit accusation with ANY thoughts or points or feelings at all. Nothing saying *this post is bad*, nothing saying *i feel that gamma acting this way is scum because*, nothing saying ANYTHING to show that his saying my posts were scummy was anything except something he made up on the fly to justify his earlier post saying I was either dumb or scum.

[Gammagooey]

UT you refusing to give anything about why you think I am or could be scum is the biggest piece of horseshit I've ever seen you try to get away with.

[Gammagooey]

you flipping the fuck out about me scumreading you and not giving reasons is pretty horseshit to be completely fair

you specifically said that my posts were scummy when I pushed on you for it.

What posts were scummy, and why.

[Gammagooey]

@UT- Saying that I would read you as a power role is absolutely baseless. You not trying to find scum is not a power-role tell, it's a scumtell, and there is literally no reason for me to think your play is and was from a power role instead of scum.

I reacted like that to your post because pulling a "dumb or scum" on me of all fucking people was horrifically bad considering that I have put more effort and pushes and attempts to actually find and lynch scum into this game than any other person in it.

The only person I think I've actually insulted here was probably shadoweh who decided to stop in, comment on why you shouldn't be lynched based on shit that has nothing to do with your alignment, and has since dissappeared into nothingness again, but I've certainly been a dick to a decent amount of people today.
I don't usually play in this way, as you can probably tell by reading all of my pushes in day 1. But this game has an enormous amount of hesisitation for lynching you based on alignment-irrevelant bullshit accompanied by a gaping open wound of useless and apathetic people and even some people that are trying to get scum lynched but just AREN'T going through your play and seeing if it makes sense for town to be doing the things you're doing.

The complete unwillingness of others to actually give enough of a shit about the game to call out specific people on other wagons and push REALLY, REALLY HARD with actual reasons on what they believe in is only going to stop in one way, by shooting down every shit reason you make up to call yourself town, calling out every player trying to take a safe way out instead of actually doing the work of scumhunting and rereading you, and getting you lynched and watching you flip scum.

[Gammagooey]

oh, and this is full of shit too.

his reaction to my earlier attempts to posse up are weird to me because the reaction I have come to expect from gamma would have been "let's do it. this game is bananas and full of thick dumbdumbs, so let's try to make shit happen". Him pushing me away reads as scum to me because he already has his partners to swing votes around with and wants to avoid being seen as buddying me.

Spoiler: quoted stuff

Gamma

what the fuck are you doing?

this does not make me want to form a posse with you

don't you want to form a posse?

I do

this game is just TEARING ME APART ut

and vezok really is obvtown for how he's playing

mindsets man

thats a big ask man

i'll do it but i feel like i'll immediately regret it

why

why is all of sitechat's userlist and posts under the bottom of the screen now

this is the laziest fucking garbage.
what's your opinion on singer's play and let's say cheetory and GuyInFreezer's too

gamma plz

gamma please be town

my poor heart can't take any more disappointment

gamma are you scum

be honest

You idly asking me if I'm scum instead of actually going after me or other people is not you trying to figure out alignments.

Also trying to make shit happen is my wheelhouse more than literally everyone else's in the game, and I bugged you specifically to try to make mastin happen yeseterday.

[Gammagooey]

As I've said before I have literally no confidence in my ability to read Titus and tbh not much in other people's abilities to read that much off-the-wall posting either.

I'll go over it and comment on it specifically in a couple days, but UT's claim fits perfectly into a scum mindset of what he would do in this situation, his read on me ignores all the pushing and scumhunting and trying to get shit done more than any other player in the entire game for bullshit about GAMMA wouldn't scumread me I was an OBVPR THE WHOLLLLE TIIME is awful, his attempts at scumhunting this game are basically nonexistent, and his constant whiny discrediting of ffery instead of doing anything himself is way more likely to be coming from scum making filler content than town who gives enough of a shit to take a dump all over ffery's reads but not enough of one to bother voting anyone and trying to get them lynched today until he got run up and counterclaimed.

Also, if UT gets lynched, I'll go over Titus with Oversoul and maybe join you afterwards if I don't think Oversoul's reasons for her being town are good enough.

[Gammagooey]

@Oversoul- Cheetory is still more likely town than not despite all my paranoia and all his dicking around UT

DV I don't think I can justify caring about at this point

I'm just going to sheep TTH.

Vote: Bulbazak

[Gammagooey]

I think townreading anyone for traced night action results is very bad because I would think all of the people scum considered scummy on their team would detect people that they think look scummy to try and get townread for doing it.

[Gammagooey]

remember all the words i said

when i talked about scumhunting and told people to do it

good times

[Gammagooey]

pretty sure she said L-2 so that a claim would happen first

reread the actual post but don't think she'll actually quickhammer, and if she does then it's dealwithable

ut you're still obvscum

[Gammagooey]

so are you going to actively fight a shadoweh wagon, or are you going to continue being a big whiny baby

probably not

you're still scum tho
just wanted to point that out

[Gammagooey]

ehh

it's not the best hammer considering that he hadn't claimed

but at least it's a lynch on someone that has a pretty reasonable chance of being scum

[Gammagooey]

I mean it is kinda my bad

but really not what I expected after this

Consider this my official intent to hammer whomever gets to L-2 first (L-2 for claims obvobv).

[Gammagooey]

VOTE: Shadoweh

[Gammagooey]

I personally feel that regardless of UT's alignment shadoweh taking everything that's been said against him and then defending him with 'he's a lurker who's engaging people' is enormously awful.

[Gammagooey]

i have said

so fucking much

about why i think that people's behaviors and mindsets are different from how I think they'd be as town

This includes A LOT today about UT. Taking all that and boiling it all down to LURKERSGONNALURK is disgustingly reductive and doesn't even try to engage with why I or other people actually think UT is scum.

[Gammagooey]

titus i have no idea what the hell you're asking about.

[Gammagooey]

can you form any asks in the form of a question?

[Gammagooey]

hey ut

weren't you going to vote shadoweh

and literally just commenting on it before bulba got lynched

guys can we just lynch ut

cause he's still scum

don't vote him yet because everyone is very busy panicing at deadlines but if you would please say that you would so it can maybe happen

[Gammagooey]

AT TITUS

1)I don't give a shit about distancing/bussing/whatever- until UT actually flips

2)

What I think is odd is

how UT is the only 'terrible lurking dood' whose actually getting shit for it

, and

I think it's because he's the only one here engaging people back when they talk about him.

It's ironic because the thing that should make him obviously the wrong lurker target is the reason he's getting voted, people like you like having an active person to fight with.

[Gammagooey]

vote shadoweh

I knew I was forgetting something

I'm still hoping against hope that people will get their heads of their asses and lynch you, but I'm really not thinking that's gonna happen

i'm literally the most obvious town in the game.

shove it up your ass.

[Gammagooey]

no, you're not

and also i'm pretty confident that not enough people are willing to put on their balls and vote by scumhunting instead of trying to play perfectly optimally and lynch other scum now, especially after one lynch has already happened, but I feel like not at least trying would make me complicit in all of their bullshit.

@Gamma, I think that Shadoweh post was sarcastic.

Why can't we lynch Aronis today?

what the fuck
there is literally no reason to find that post sarcastic
that is what shadoweh is saying about someone who was being pushed very strongly as scum by several people at the time

[Gammagooey]

I put in the italics to shadoweh's post to point out exactly what I'm talking about her doing. the italics were not in the original post.

[Gammagooey]

tjoiswjtoijrolisjor

SHADOWEH DID NOT PUSH UT AS SCUM

THAT IS THE POINT

SHE HAD A REALLY SHITTY DEFENSE OF UT THAT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING THAT UT WAS DOING THAT WAS ACTUALLY ALIGNMENT RELEVANT

[Gammagooey]

die in a greasy hole, ut

[Gammagooey]

always lynch scum

ignore bullshit incentives to not lynch scum

also there's like a single player who'd probably seriously consider lynching me right now with you, and it's vezok. when your only support for doing something is vezok, there SHOULD be a few alarms going off in your head.

[Gammagooey]

@Gamma, So Shadoweh defended UT poorly? Is that your point? *shrug*

@Gamma and UT, You both are at each other's throats. Yet you're both voting the same target? Huh?

1)dear profanity-based gods yes
2)also yes, because I can't get UT lynched and shadow looks like scum. I could add another comment about ut being scum here but I think I've gotten the point across by now

[Gammagooey]

saying 'why would scum do x when they can do this scummier thing instead' is the logic equivalent of garbage on top of decaying corpses.

to look townier himself or to make shadoweh look townier when he flips. that's all it ever is and it happens over and over and over because people like you say that they could have done something worse, instead of looking at it without any hypothetical "why not do this" bullshit instead.

@Gamma, So Shadoweh defended UT poorly? Is that your point? *shrug*

what did you

think

I was trying to say then? I thought I made it pretty clear.

[Gammagooey]

saying 'why would scum do x when they can do this scummier thing instead' is the logic equivalent of garbage on top of decaying corpses.

to look townier himself or to make shadoweh look townier when he flips. that's all it ever is and it happens over and over and over because people like you say that they could have done something worse, instead of looking at it without any hypothetical "why not do this" bullshit instead.

@Gamma, So Shadoweh defended UT poorly? Is that your point? *shrug*

what did you

think

I was trying to say then? I thought I made it pretty clear.

Let's run that down then. We're nearing mylo/lylo. So UT busses to look good? UT's a dead man, by either lynch tomorrow or death tonight. I don't see any way around that. So UT is the last scum I would be expecting to actually bus unless there was a plan in place to derail the wagon.

no

titus

keep with the chain of thoughts from that particular post

when I was talking to you about shadoweh and her bad defense of UT, what did you think I was talking about and what did you think my point was?

[Gammagooey]

I didn't see your point beyond she's unskilled at defending people.

So

like

do you just
not connect the things that people say about a player they're voting to that player being scummy?
Like I honestly don't get how you didn't see me voting shadoweh and my comments on her defense as UT as connected.

[Gammagooey]

?

I'll admit, I'm looking for a reason you're voting Shadoweh and filling in gaps. If you could help me out? Which posts do you find scummy? Why?

There's been this theme of Shadoweh egging people on. I don't get it.

I'm not on the same emotional wavelength as any of you, that's why I'm asking questions.

I just
don't understand

if you're looking for a reason why i'm voting shadoweh how did you misunderstand me saying that I think shadoweh is scum because she put in a very low-effort, at least partially untrue, UT's-alignment-irrelevant defense of UT when he is basically guaranteed to flip and shed light on whatever statement she makes about him in the near future. i didn't explain it in that much detail at the time but just. ???

[Gammagooey]

Gamma, we all don't post the same way. Low effort for one, is not the same as low effort for another. Low effort for me, is more cognitive, either lack of engagement or posting at all, or getting tunnell vision. I don't consider a post that I don't get necessarily as low effort.

The more detail actually DOES help me. I need to see each step of the logical train. Sometimes I can assume, now I can't.

So you're stating that she didn't want to get on UT but didn't want to slip somehow she knew Shadoweh's alignment, so she makes some non-descript statement so she can hop on if she has to?

who do you think i'm talking about right now

why do you think i'm talking about X right now

who is

she

?

[Gammagooey]

^actually that one is just you using shadoweh's name instead of UT's isn't it, nevermind

I think that post from shadoweh was not something that came from any place of effort or attempt at reading UT and that her pushing against ut's lynch for being the 'only lurker being pushed' was blatantly untrue, and the argument she made lets her avoid UT's wagon so that when he does flip she isn't one of the first people to be jumped on for defending/attacking/whatevering UT.

[Gammagooey]

im so tired

if you want to bitch about things

please have opinions of your own that you're willing to vote on and try to convince people of

[Gammagooey]

pretty sure sheeping tth and oversoul is a lot more useful to actually making the game function than me having my own opinion and he's not a town read so

VOTE: 4nxi3ty

[Gammagooey]

don't like how vezok's feels the need to state he would prefer to vote aronis

i feel like this criticism is dumb

also i'm a little surprised you aren't commenting on me voting you since you're talking about wagon hops n all

[Gammagooey]

I very much support aronis and 4nxi3ty being the two wagons that everyone should be getting on

[Gammagooey]

esp is town because he has an actually town mindset, which is called thus because he is thinking like town.

case closed problem solved let's all go home and have a drink

[Gammagooey]

@titus-no, you can read my iso. i've literally been going on about why i think esp is town the entire damn game.

also, esp is not of concern right now. we have less than 4 days to lynch a second person, if you want to talk about shit go talk about the people who are actually maybe getting lynched now instead of unreadable tangents.

[Gammagooey]

and titus.

you have over A THOUSAND posts.

that's more than 1/6th of the game in one that started with 20 players.

PLEASE please please please please please start at least skimming through what people have already said about people before you ask for their opinions on something that's already been gone over several times before.

[Gammagooey]

tbf, you haven't seen a lot of what i've seen regarding vezok and how he's reacted and acting to several different things and people that make him obvtown

but mostly its just not a scumtell. i can see how maybe it could be in certain circumstances but not the way he did it there. he's just sayin' what he thinks.

as for feeling left out, not really. i just think that from your perspective my vote on you would pretty clearly be the "worst", even if you don't think I'm actually scum for other reasons so attacking other people for something I would see as less bad seems pretty meh.

[Gammagooey]

hey 4nxi3ty

if you've got opinions on actiondan and shadoweh nows probably the time to share

[Gammagooey]

I believe the transcendent ability

informing if someone is viktor jarvik seems really really specific and weird.

[Gammagooey]

like if viktor is the last or second to last scum we already pretty much have the ability to plan mass-trace+detect combinations of people and PoE him

why would we get another role that fucks them over even more if Viktor is one of the last survivors to lategame?

[Gammagooey]

also, cheetory should bitch less.

we've done plenty of trying. if you don't like the wagons put in the effort change some opinions yourself. you probably could do it if you spent as much energy actually explaining a super strong scum read as you just did whining about the rest of us.

[Gammagooey]

also I don't think this should be considered nearly as much as the Viktor-specific investigation role

but him claiming to trace singer n1 when singer's recently claimed her trace on UT would probably be the go-to easily fakable result if he detected then and needed to make up a trace there.

I think this claim is more likely than not coming from scum.

[Gammagooey]

pretty sure pretty much everyone has a trace, its just much more advantageous for scum to detect when they think nobody's tracing them to get a sign for a kill later. and dv minor n1 would definitely fit that.

[Gammagooey]

also let's not talk about the little minor thing about his claim forever

why a viktor specific investigation role? I don't think that's a real thing that exists.

[Gammagooey]

like if viktor is the last or second to last scum we already pretty much have the ability to plan mass-trace+detect combinations of people and PoE him

why would we get another role that fucks them over even more if Viktor is one of the last survivors to lategame?

[Gammagooey]

like it really does seem like he just wanted to claim an investigative role so he made one based on the sample role PMs.

[Gammagooey]

They definitely have name fakeclaims at least

there are a bunch of possibilities of him either having a slightly different oracle fakeclaim or him having a VT fakeclaim and wanting to modify it to be investigative if the other fakeclaims make more sense as the other scum given scum abilities and such.

[Gammagooey]

tbf i would be pretty fine with aronis getting run up again tomorrow

but this is a pretty bad claim and 4nx should die.

actually i'll probably share a few opinions after lunch so I can fuck off and get things done for most of the rest of the day in case a lynch happens before tomorrow

[Gammagooey]

it's legitimately possible they're both scum.

but 4nx is verrry likely scum with that claim and in case aronis isn't I don't want him to have to claim yet.

[Gammagooey]

i now support lynching titus for being awful

after we lynch 4nxi3ty

and ut

and shadoweh

so
eventually

[Gammagooey]

titus

i've already explained exactly why I think what I do about the claim

I think it's very likely made up by scum and you using hito's wording of Viktor's ability to defend 4nx when it needs to be worded that way to function with how it returns no result when the tracer is also being traced is fucking horrific.

[Gammagooey]

also

literally EVERY TRACE IN THE GAME HELPS TO ELIMINATE VIKTOR

saying he's town for claiming something slightly more powerful but still useless against 3/4ths of the scum team is mind bogglingly stupid.

[Gammagooey]

@oversoul-no, tth tried to trace last night

probably n1 too? but im not sure about that

[Gammagooey]

oh no nevermind he did detect dv n1

[Gammagooey]

no, it doesn't.

if Viktor is one of the last two scum remaining, we could basically just drop everything and make a claimplan to find viktor. i suggested something similar to this day 1. we force 3-4 people to detect, and have anyone that's tracing target one of them without claiming which. Chances are we clear at least 2-3 people of being viktor, and if someone has a no result on them from multiple people they're MCUH more likely, although not guaranteed, to be Viktor.

Having a role that has a sole purpose of finding Viktor even faster does not make sense to me.

[Gammagooey]

and again, it completely ignores 3/4ths of the scumteam.

if you wanted to make up a low-impact investigative role to claim that might get people off your wagon?

this is it. right here.

[Gammagooey]

he's claiming he traced you/empire minor n1 and saw you detected ut

[Gammagooey]

read things instead of bitching about failed, stupid gambits please singer

minor n1 traced singer, not viktor, detected ut

[Gammagooey]

hey look it's ut still being obvscum and still not scumhunting and still not voting to even bother trying to lynch scum

...okay singer. sure. he definitely would have failed your dumb gambit for some reason by claiming something ridiculous and nonsensical.

[Gammagooey]

tonight there'll almost definitely be two kills tonight given Viktor's sign ability and scum detects unless mastin or some other protective role does things. If I'm dead, this is what I give a shit about.

ABSOLUTELY town, stop trying to lynch them, seriously read over what they've been doing and when and they're obvious godamn town

Oversoul
vezok
TTH (just for the lock claim but still obvobvtown)

Like really probably town, still really likely town mindset

Espeonage

Likely town, but read over them yourself and don't let them get away with horseshit lategame

singer
cheetory

obvscum

UT

The person I'd really, really, really like to see lynched tomorrow that isn't UT

Shadoweh

Fucking kill her eventually for being unreadable maybescum and being enormously detrimental to the game

Titus

Not confident enough to them put on other lists, read them and figure them out yourself

everyone else

[Gammagooey]

already said that i thought you were town early game because you seemed to be acting genuinely about several things, its just that none of those things were actually scumhunting and trying to find scum.

your read on me at the start of day 2 saying im either dumb or scum was one of the worst things I've ever seen from you. having THAT as your read on me after day 1 where I pushed multiple different wagons and tried obscenely hard to get something done that I thought would actually be a lynch on probable scum was clearly a faked, reactionary read to me scumreading you that you didn't and couldn't back up with anything about my posting day 1.

[Gammagooey]

yes ut keep on saying that everyone that is scumreading you is scum

it feeds us

[Gammagooey]

wait let me try your posting style this game for a sec

[Gammagooey]

not all rectangles are squares

but all squares are rectangles

OUTPLAYED motherfucker

[Gammagooey]

Espy r u scum

quick gamma

she's gotta be scum for saying this, right?

probably not

you just said some variation of it twice which felt really forced and strange considering I didn't bother answering you the first time

It's not like it's a question that will result in anything helpful when said to even slightly competent players and I think you know and understand that

[Gammagooey]

also

CDB

I strongly, strongly believe that 4nx is making a very poor claim that is essentially exactly what scum would claim in this situation.

if you REALLY think that aronis is scum I want you to go back through his iso and actually make a case for him being scum, ideally in the next 24 hours because the deadline's hitting really soon.

I see that aronis's play is generally bad but if you want it A LOT over what I think is 4nx's likely scum-motivated claim and generally mediocre play (and deas hasn't been amazing even though he was definitely at least good early game i think) then I would really think you should fight for it or just join what I think is a very good reason to lynch 4nx.

[Gammagooey]

I don't think DV saying that he didn't want to do the trace/detect plan day 1 points to him having the role he's claimed- it's tangentially relevant yes but I don't think that him saying that he doesn't want to follow the plan actually makes it more likely that he has that role. I don't see a reason why that decision would be changed by having a slightly stronger trace than everyone else, and I still think that his role as he's claimed it doesn't make sense to exist.

And whoever said that he was tracing people that other people weren't looking at is ABSOLUTELY wrong. empire was almost baned right before DV supposedly traced him, and espeonage has been considered for being lynched and baned throughout the entire game.

[Gammagooey]

I wish this game didn't feel like trying to run a up hill that turns into a 90 degree cliff halfway up over and over and over again as everyone just stares

[Gammagooey]

@hito

- titus is voting me, not aronis

Fixed. -hito

[Gammagooey]

I don't think I can actually express how much I despise Titus eating up 4nx's claim for "giving us Viktor" when there's no reason to think that scum wouldn't claim that sort of weak investigative power role in this situation, he hasn't "given us Viktor" and if he's scum he certainly isn't going to claim to have found him before LYLO unless he feels forced into it by other scum lynches (which if he's not Viktor there's only 2 of, and if he is Viktor then it doesn't matter since he'll literally never come up with a positive result), and how she's she's completely excusing that DV had esp as what seems like a fairly strong townread and then supposedly checked him with an ability that would only even return a guilty on 1/4th of the scumteam, which makes it absolutely useless to try to use it to reinforce a town read on someone.

This is mostly to Oversoul and CDB, but it's not really specific to them, I just think they're more likely to do it than most other people in the game.

If you read through aronis's iso and think that it's very likely to be scum motivated, then fine. I don't think he's looks particularly town and although I think it's pretty unlikely I could be wrong about 4nx's claim.

But if you do that and still think that it's a tossup whether or not aronis is scum, vote 4nx. I've already gone over why I think his claim is likely coming from scum, and I think this sort of hesistance to actually lynch a claimed PR that could theoretically do something useful but is very unlikely to, it exists because there's a fear of fucking over the game by taking that risk. And although I think it's a very small risk, yes it is a risk. And I think creating that hesistance and overly cautious behavior is exactly the reason why 4nx claimed to be a Viktor-only investigative PR, and I strongly, strongly feel that letting that making the "safe" choice here based on the possible potential of a claimed role is wrong. It's a little cliche, but there's always risk in a lynch. Choosing to avoid the worst-case scenario instead of voting for who's showing the most actual scum motivations doesn't win games.

also, I just got ninjaed by like 6 posts including oversoul's vote. so. yep.

[Gammagooey]

What's the harm in waiting? No ate. Facts.

The harm is not lynching scum. If you narrow down the lynchpool to not include weak PRs, then you destroy your ability to actually lynch scum before lategame. Mod Error finished, with GreyICE fakeclaiming and investigative role, and I think that with the logic you're presenting now you absolutely would have kept his claim alive as long as possible instead of lynching him.

[Gammagooey]

that is a hitoshrug

and i don't think your role points to 4nx being town.

[Gammagooey]

do think that titus is town for claiming in this way for this reason btw

just also think that her conclusions regarding 4nx are wrong.

[Gammagooey]

just also think that her conclusions regarding 4nx are wrong.

Then say more things and actually engage the gamestate.
I'm getting mad at the fact that voting you was probably the right call.

What in the hellfuck do you think this is

I don't think I can actually express how much I despise Titus eating up 4nx's claim for "giving us Viktor" when there's no reason to think that scum wouldn't claim that sort of weak investigative power role in this situation, he hasn't "given us Viktor" and if he's scum he certainly isn't going to claim to have found him before LYLO unless he feels forced into it by other scum lynches (which if he's not Viktor there's only 2 of, and if he is Viktor then it doesn't matter since he'll literally never come up with a positive result), and how she's she's completely excusing that DV had esp as what seems like a fairly strong townread and then supposedly checked him with an ability that would only even return a guilty on 1/4th of the scumteam, which makes it absolutely useless to try to use it to reinforce a town read on someone.

This is mostly to Oversoul and CDB, but it's not really specific to them, I just think they're more likely to do it than most other people in the game.

If you read through aronis's iso and think that it's very likely to be scum motivated, then fine. I don't think he's looks particularly town and although I think it's pretty unlikely I could be wrong about 4nx's claim.

But if you do that and still think that it's a tossup whether or not aronis is scum, vote 4nx. I've already gone over why I think his claim is likely coming from scum, and I think this sort of hesistance to actually lynch a claimed PR that could theoretically do something useful but is very unlikely to, it exists because there's a fear of fucking over the game by taking that risk. And although I think it's a very small risk, yes it is a risk. And I think creating that hesistance and overly cautious behavior is exactly the reason why 4nx claimed to be a Viktor-only investigative PR, and I strongly, strongly feel that letting that making the "safe" choice here based on the possible potential of a claimed role is wrong. It's a little cliche, but there's always risk in a lynch. Choosing to avoid the worst-case scenario instead of voting for who's showing the most actual scum motivations doesn't win games.

also, I just got ninjaed by like 6 posts including oversoul's vote. so. yep.

[Gammagooey]

I'm not going to convince Titus. I'm very aware of this. I'm not going to waste my time and clutter up the thread even more by talking directly to her instead of the people I think will actually help lynch who I think is very likely scum for reasons I've gone over and over and over again.

[Gammagooey]

im so fucking sick of this game and so godamn tired of people who I'm pretty sure have never seen me play as scum before make shitty assumptions about me being scum based on how they've seen me play as town.

this is one of the

better

scum games I've had in the past few years. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=23096

these are I think the two most recent ones that i've actually survived to endgame. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17903 http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15690

i don't play a lot of games but notice that those last two were 4 years ago. If you look through my iso, and think that I fucking push and push and try to make things happen and just stretch myself and put my fucking soul into the game the way I'm doing here as scum you're absolutely wrong.

[Gammagooey]

4nx UT shadoweh

maybe aronis even as the last one, maybe you, maybe AD.
i keep waffling on you, I dislike a lot of the reactions you've had to things, in that they seem like a kind of weird hesistant suspicion on titus and if I remember right one or two other people for claims and little things.

[Gammagooey]

i think i actually already said i don't remember much of what you did in DoA, the only thing that sticks out in memory was the vonflare neighbors thing and the insurance thing.

yeah do think they're both town.

[Gammagooey]

partially gut and it just seeming like something she'd do as town

Also because I think your play looks legitimately mindboggling and infuriating to anyone who hasn't seen you as both town and scum before and singer latching onto that makes sense to me given how I think she processes the game.

[Gammagooey]

because the way you're playing and applying them doesn't feel consistent or focused or directed or coherent.

[Gammagooey]

like it feels like you ask a question or make a comment and then keep branching and branching off from that until you're so far away from the original topic that your conclusions are impossible to follow and you're no longer talking about what the other person's actually trying to talk to you about.

[Gammagooey]

wait

i am going to turn all this bullshit into a learning experience

it will probably only make the game worse but i can prove a dumb point at least

titus let's go step by step. why would aronis counterclaim tth? go down to the most base level of why someone claims their role in response to another person claiming.

[Gammagooey]

jesus can you miss a point titus

why would aronis think TTH would be scum? people only counterclaim other people if they think the person they're counterclaiming is scum.

[Gammagooey]

considering that a self-watcher and a watcher-that-was-locked-and-is-actually-still-a-vt-because-game-mechanics are two very different roles, I don't see why not.

And no, because aronis hasn't said anything about his results yet that I see that he could actually be lying about. What is the thing that he's lying about?

tbf cdb is right about aronis not actually claiming his results in his claim being bad but let's stick with the learning exersize here for a bit.

[Gammagooey]

considering that a self-watcher and a watcher-that-was-locked-and-is-actually-still-a-vt-because-game-mechanics are two very different roles, I don't see why not.

And no, because aronis hasn't said anything about his results yet that I see that he could actually be lying about. What is the thing that he's lying about?

tbf cdb is right about aronis not actually claiming his results in his claim being bad but let's stick with the learning exersize here for a bit.

Watcher is Watcher is watcher. That's a stretch and you know it Gamma.

Let's track his actions for a moment. He naked pushes me and Espy saying we're the best choices. Given that's the only thing he's saying at the start of Major Day 2, logical thing (given his claim) is that he's implying a guilty on us.

Yet, later Espy claims to have traced me. Not a word from Aronis. Not a word. Instead, he continues to tunnel me. If Espy's selections were indeed based on his results (namely watching himself), that implies that Espy and I both visited him. However, unless Espy lied OUT OF THE BLUE. Then, Aronis's vote pattern CANNOT be the result of him self-watching. If Aronis result is Not based on his actions, then what is it based on?

Nothing. He's guilty.

okay okay okay sure fine whatever get ready for LEARNING

If we put all your recent posts together, I can see that you're making the following assumptions.
-That there aren't two very similar roles in the game
-That aronis also wouldn't think that there aren't two very similar roles in the game, and would think TTH was scum for claiming watcher and counterclaim him
-That his vote history was largely based on his role and the results he received from it
-and that him tunnelling on you is also because of role results.

Personally, I think that pretty much all of those assumptions are bad assumptions to make, but that's not the point.

The point is that watching you take some piece of information, make several different assumptions from it while not explicitly stating any of them, and just stating the conclusion you get from all those assumptions is incredibly hard to follow, difficult to talk to you about, and given that it took several posts to even GET to the assumptions you're making that I generally disagree with, very very frustrating for most people to try to process your play or engage you with why they think you're wrong/scum/whatever.

Also as my tangential sidenote for the evening, singer wears her emotions on her sleeve and I think that the tone of her posts towards you is strongly indicative of her actually believing that you're scum and trying to convince other people of it, as well as trying to catch you in lies/contradictions/still whatever.

[Gammagooey]

now that that's done

HEY ARONIS

get in here and fullclaim your role and all your results in the next hour or get dead

[Gammagooey]

here's to hoping

Vote: Aronis

[Gammagooey]

i hereby declare the remaining part of the day fun dicking around time to preserve what little is left of fun and sanity in our miserable existances

I can't tell if I'd be happier at Aronis flipping scum or him flipping town and this being closer to being over.

nah he'll flip neither

he will flip SK cop like espy said, causing all the lynched players in all the games to get sucked into a void and play a second mod error mafia that slowly turns into disjointed pictures of tigers and jpeg artifacts

it'll be fine

[Gammagooey]

TITUS THIS IS FUN TIME NO MORE SERIOUSNESS NOW
the signs weren't randomly assigned

they were secretly assigned by hito to represent our true innermostselves

and watch us all die according to his secret fanfictions

[Gammagooey]

Bane: 4nxi3ty

if people think he's not scum for X reason then I'm pretty willing to listen but Titus fakeclaiming a role to get him not lynched seems real real bad

[Gammagooey]

claiming is probably fine if you think it'll make lynching scum more likely

[Gammagooey]

oh

hmm

maybe not then? One sec

[Gammagooey]

I mean

the bane doesn't actually

do

anything UNLESS we lynch them

so

shrug?

Cheetory follow your heart I don't have useful input for whether or not you should fullclaim.

[Gammagooey]

well

i guess it takes away the vote

but

still doesn't actually matter

also I don't think the pool that scum could be in is actually that big, even yesterday. it's just that there's a lot of playergunkiness from several individual slots.

[Gammagooey]

also I'm really glad titus was scum

just because I like that the thousand posts of incomprehensible noise wasn't actually self-inflicted by town

[Gammagooey]

Choose: Trade

In most situations I'd actually just stick with the 2 lynches but I will be astonished if 4nx doesn't flip scum
UT is also still obvscum too

[Gammagooey]

It's pretty fine if we don't trade

The risk for being wrong IS a lot worse than the reward of getting an extra lynch in this situation I think, it's just that 4nx's role is still not a real thing that exists who targeted esp for *reasons* after saying he was town and etc etc etc.

[Gammagooey]

because baning you is going to be just as difficult as getting you lynched and the bane doesn't actually matter at all.

[Gammagooey]

^he right

[Gammagooey]

well.

no, if we lynch two scum today.

scum can unmake 2 times each given the Viktor PM if I'm remembering correctly

[Gammagooey]

it does make an alquin counterclaim the correct play if/when 4nx flips scum though

[Gammagooey]

i absolutely completely fail to see why you would think I'm town now and not after day 1.

[Gammagooey]

it totally wouldn't be? It was beyond obvious that I wasn't getting lynched yesterday.