[Game Over] Newbie 1900 - Robocalypse

[Lamees]

not_mafia? seems legit

VOTE: randomaccess

[Lamees]

Is that self vote just random or...?

[Lamees]

Having everyone taking a captcha should solve this.

[Lamees]

FL what are you doing? Looks scummy to me.

[Lamees]

FL what are you doing? Looks scummy to me.

What do you think Flavor Leaf is doing, and how is that scummy?
I see that he's simply sheeping my vote and wagoning, isn't that pro-town, Lamees?

Omgus isn't really alignment indicative.

[Lamees]

Is omgus enough to sheep a wagon? Or is there a different reason?

[Lamees]

I know. Which is why I needed clarity. Anyways time for me to get out of RVS.

UNVOTE:

[Lamees]

The Transformer's behaviour towards me, given our last game together, seemed very natural. This also seemed like the only decent attempt at engagement in the experiment so far, so that was good.

I have a completed town game (Mini 2040), although the circumstances there were pretty different. You could give it a read. There's a lot of content from my profile that you could use to judge the AI-ness (Heheh) of my tone in general *by yourself*. What do you make of my reaction, though?

My vote was an RVS vote, I could've simply replaced the roleplay with "Hey, a robot avatar! VOTE". The voting and subsequent hopeful flashwagoning was to generate content and test for reactions, yes. Not a result of a scumread. I do find Lamees' reaction to the OMGUS part interesting.

IMO RVS sheeping at least isn't AI at all, I think it's a good thing actually. At least in terms of a starting point for serious play. Thor's sheeping was contextually different, he was clear that he townread you after your defence and moved his vote.
What do you think? How do you think scum!sheeping would play out over the course of a day? You don't have to answer the second part, just keep that in mind.

Can you give more details about what you found interesting?

[Lamees]

Can you give more details about what you found interesting?

So far, WRT your play:
- Calling me scummy for *mentioning* OMGUS
- Stressing on the NAI-ness of OMGUS, and questioning FL's sheep (which was before my post)
- Ignoring my reasons for wagoning
- "Time for me to get out of RVS" without actually placing a vote with a serious basis
- False unvote?

Answer me this, Lamees:
1. You still think RVS wagoning isn't good?
2. Do you scumread me?
3. If you're getting out of RVS, what are your serious reads?
4. Opinions on FL's sheeping?

I didn't call you scummy. Let alone scummy for mentioning omgus. I said FLs sheeping which I guess can be classified as "blind sheeping" looks scummy. Anyway I changed my mind about it since it's NAI.

1. I just came from a game where there was RVS lynch (yes lynch not wagon lol). The lynch It actually happened to be scum. So I think it can be good but there's definitely a higher chance for the lynch to be scum if the wagon isn't RVS.

2. No (but not town read either)

3. So far not much. I'd say yuriko is town maybe. Since L-2 with not much defensive posting from her side.

4. I think he hasnt voted seriously yet. So wont look too much into it

[Lamees]

• volxen (L-2)

  : Auro, Flavor Leaf, lionheart1492
  

  YurikoJasmine (L-3)

  : YurikoJasmine, Not_Mafia
  

  Auro (L-4)

  : volxen
  

  Lamees (L-4)

  : Ariane
  

  Not_Mafia (L-4)

  : Lamees
  

  snowbeast

VOTE: not_mafia

[Lamees]

Don't like his iso

[Lamees]

hey lam! (and auro/volx!)

not_mafia? seems legit

VOTE: randomaccess

Why mention one player in your RVS post but then RV someone else completely? Why did you choose random to vote?

Hey ariane.

It was a joke about how I find a name like not_mafia to be a player that isn't mafia because it's in the name. So I random voted randomaccess since the word random is in the name it was a suitable random vote.

[Lamees]

Read his ISOs from other games. Tell me the difference.
Else that's a policy lynch you're advocating.

Lamees, I'd like you to clarify on this.

Why? Reading previous games isn't my style. I play the current game. Only time I use past games is if I was in the game personally.

[Lamees]

Why? Reading previous games isn't my style. I play the current game. Only time I use past games is if I was in the game personally.

Meta means nothing to you?

Okay, take it from me - Not_Mafia does this every game. Your scumread on him for his ISO on this game alone is *wrong*.

Apart from a weak early jab at Flavor, you're just comfortably settling into a tunnel based on an incorrect meta-ignorant read, no?

There's plenty of time left. This is not even close to a tunnel forming.

[Lamees]

Yeah, still monitoring the auro/volxen exchange.

I am leaning it's TvS, not sure who is which yet. It could be TvT, really doubt it's SvS

[Lamees]

NM hasn't defended himself at all against my vote so this isnt exactly lamees vs nm lol

[Lamees]

NM hasn't defended himself at all against my vote so this isnt exactly lamees vs nm lol

It is from my perspective, not yours. I’m forcing it to happen to see what reactions come out of people.

I guess we did get a defensive reaction from auro. What do you think of that?

[Lamees]

We are too split at the moment. Can everyone just vote NM already. Thanks.

[Lamees]

Lamees, give me good reason to vote Not_Mafia and I will.

You said FL should have pushed me instead of NM and the reason was because he inst going to defend himself? So what if he is scum? You're going to give him a free pass because he does this in all of his games?

[Lamees]

No, I'm going to expect him to be checked by an investigative and cleared/guiltied in future days.

What's your approach towards someone who lurked all game till now? Would you lynch them, or would you hunt for someone who's posting and looks scummy?

I know what you're getting at.

Anyway he has been posting and he does looks scummy. I don't see

clear

scum posts from anyone yet btw. So I am going with my read. He is free to convince me otherwise.

[Lamees]

• Not_Mafia (L-3)

  : Lamees, Flavor Leaf
  

  Flavor Leaf (L-4)

  : Ariane
  

  Ariane (L-4)

  : YurikoJasmine
  

  volxen (L-4)

  : Auro
  

  YurikoJasmine (L-4)

  : Not_Mafia
  

  Auro (L-4)

  : volxen
  

  snowbeast, lionheart1492

I thought I was the engaging one which is why FL should have voted me instead of NM?

[Lamees]

I've been the second most active user in the thread. I am trying to engage and get a lynch. NM is the one not properly engaging, that is not my fault. You are giving him a free pass, even more than that, you're defending him on multiple occasions. I don't see how that helps at all. I wouldnt mind turning it into NM vs lamees and all players have to choose to vote either me or him. But FL vs ariane looks more interesting. Not sure I would know who to vote there, hope we get more content from them soon.

UNVOTE: not_mafia

Reserving vote for FL vs ariane. (Willing to put my scum read on hold for a chance for us to get a lynch together)

[Lamees]

At the rate it was heading into a no lynch. I prefer someone to get lynched on day 1.

[Lamees]

@yuriko are you scum reading auro or flavor?

@not_mafia yuriko has changed her vote.

[Lamees]

Lol ok. But he is using an out dated reason for a vote. I guess if he is town this is his way of ensuring he won't get night killed. I still think we shouldnt all scatter our votes around. We can settle on FL vs auro then.

[Lamees]

Haha none taken. But in that game you were scum and I wanted to lynch you day 1. So how is that anti town? I'd say what was anti town was bbmolla, the guy just kept his vote on me for the entire game. Eventually forcing me to scum read him. And then I got lynched and town lost. Which is why no matter how accurately one reads the game, if town cannot work together it's pointless.

[Lamees]

Haha none taken. But in that game you were scum and I wanted to lynch you day 1. So how is that anti town? I'd say what was anti town was bbmolla, the guy just kept his vote on me for the entire game. Eventually forcing me to scum read him. And then I got lynched and town lost. Which is why no matter how accurately one reads the game, if town cannot work together it's pointless.

What I had in mind wasn't your reads -- your posts in D2 made you an obvlynch that game. This is a separate discussion, tho -- I've since attributed that it's just playstyle.

Obv lynch in a poor town pool.

[Lamees]

VOTE: auro

Yeah yeah I know, opportunistic. I mean, we need 5 votes so of course any vote after the first or second one is now gonna get called opportunistic as a defense mechanism and because it's the in-word. Good luck getting 5 votes without being called opportunistic though lol.

I just don't think auro has taken this vote pressure from FL well. He is kinda flailing imo, he was all about votes for pressure but when it's on him the pressure was a bit too much. Pair that with the feeling I have that he has been prodding me all game in hopes I say something scummy for him to latch onto. High chance we got scum here. Also I really dont mind auro vs lamees too. So we can do that. By all means vote me if you think I'm scum.

[Lamees]

@auro You have been trying, and after the FL vote you confirmed it to me, that you were lining me up as the next scum target after the volxen wagon lost momentum.

[Lamees]

From real life experience when we question suspected poachers the innocent have one solid story and the guilty bounce around under pressure

What do you think of auros reaction to FLs vote on him then?

[Lamees]

Lamees, do you think I engage only in defense?

If I was lining you up as the next scum target, why would I vote for FL instead of voting for you? Or do you mean the next target after scum!me gets FL lynched, in which case - why would I attribute scummy looking posts of yours as NAI?

That's the thing, it's like you'll throw in words like lamist and anti town but wont commit to a vote without any support, since it'd attract too much attention to you. You even quote a post of mine just to throw shade with stuff like "if FL doesnt see this as opportunistic" etc. It's like you are waiting for that 1 or 2 townies to start the wagon from the little hints you give. That is a true scum agenda. After a townie or two forms a wagon, you then capitalize on it with all the content you have been soft pushing throughout the thread. You voted FL because ariane voted FL.

[Lamees]

What do you think of auros reaction to FLs vote on him then?

You can't respond to questions with accusations that scum!Auro is prodding you into saying something scummy and lynch you.

And there you go, deflecting questions and asking someone about their reads instead.

Are you referring to post 210? I wanted to address 209 too so that's why I posted to him first. Unless you are forcing me into tunnelling you?

[Lamees]

From real life experience when we question suspected poachers the innocent have one solid story and the guilty bounce around under pressure

Above question goes to you as well. I'm engaging not out of defense only, but as part of scumhunting too.

Irl we use non verbal communication like fidgeting and visible stress. Here we are all keyboard warriors and can't see each other face to face.
Reason I have not voted is maybe entering night might be good. People can investigate and hopefully get results. Also 5 votes for a lynch. I think we have 3 maf so of those 5 if it's a townie lynch we know 3 of them are maf. I'm not jumping on a band wagon and then have to explain myself unless the person makes a fatal error and warrants a lynch

There are two mafia. 7 town. And no I am not taking this as a town slip lol.

[Lamees]

Are you referring to post 210? I wanted to address 209 too so that's why I posted to him first. Unless you are forcing me into tunnelling you?

Umm, asking you questions and wanting you to engage is now scum forcing you to tunnel them?

Read the post order on the previous page and see what you said. You were acting as if I was ignoring your question in 210 just because I wanted to respond to 209(snowbeast)

[Lamees]

I did. And I dont see a reason to answer the hypothetical.

Btw, scum team, PLEASE PLEASE NIGHT KILL NOT_MAFIA. PLEASE. Well if he is in fact on the scum team himself I guess we lost already lol.

[Lamees]

If I were scum, I don't think I'd have to work so hard at engaging people and plotting future mislynches, lol.

I think your playstyle is just generally active regardless of alignment. So who can say for sure.

To answer 206, basically majority of your posts after FL's vote on you.

[Lamees]

To answer 206, basically majority of your posts after FL's vote on you.

This must mean you disagree with my reasoning behind a majority of those posts, yeah? Could you pick out a couple of instances, just so I can see where you're coming from?

Exactly, my playstyle is active regardless of alignment. Therefore my engagement with FL, and my engagement with you is a result of me being active, which is NAI, and not flails in themselves. Agree?

I am mostly referring to content of the posts which I found scummy, not just the number of posts.

[Lamees]

I don't think Lamees' reactions under *pressure* are useful -- go check out D2 of Newbie 1893, the posts leading up to her lynch.
IMO it's a better strategy to let her post more, prod her and get her to change track, and then search for motivation/agenda overall.
I *think* town!Lamees generally votes out of OMGUS-y reasons more and scum!Lamees decides on an agenda and pushes based on that (from a very loose skim of meta).

I reread it. Looks like I just started the day with trying to find scum. I changed my vote a few times and all of a sudden it's "omg changed votes, flailing lets lynch". Ues that was the type of town pool I was in that day. Very disappoonting. I do understand it's a newbie game and I've seen worse reasons being pushed to lynch someone in a recent newbie game, but scum was pushing my lynch too. Scum can push any lynch with any made up reason. What made it easier for scum to lynch was a town player lock voted me since day 1. Yet I was the "anti town" one lol.

[Lamees]

Will post a read list shortly

[Lamees]

Ariane - Town lean, I could be wrong as I haven't yet seen scum ariane.

lionheart1492 - Town lean, trying to find scum, or at least seems to be doing so. No reason to doubt this early.

snowbeast - Town lean, I said before I won't take the "3 mafia" post as a town slip. But the general posting and play seems townie to me.

Auro - Scum lean, seems to be in hard defense mode, most of his recent posts have been defensive and usually ends up with him trying to hi-light agreement to his cases or repeat questions and answers until some sort of stalemate wifom is achieved

volxen (SE) - Null, I can see his posting coming from either alignment.

YurikoJasmine (SE) - Null, not much to go on

Not_Mafia (SE) - obvious scum, but throwing the game seems to be acceptable this round so we can leave him alive.

Flavor Leaf (IC) - null, hard to read FL here, he seems different from the previous games I've played with him but not exactly clear scum different.

[Lamees]

Reading snowbeast's ISO I am gonna go with that was a legit town slip. Post 126 is a softer version of the town slip. Confirmed town for now.

[Lamees]

I agree with auro here, @snowbeast if you agree with me you should be voting auro here not NM, as NM has no momentum on the wagon. Votes being too spread and uncoordinated = no lynch.

[Lamees]

@Flavour Leaf what do you think of my vote?

[Lamees]

I will take full responsibility if auro flips green. He won't but in the rare case he does.

[Lamees]

I guess no lynch is cool too.

[Lamees]

I don't see it happening within the next 2 days. We would need around 5 townies on 1 wagon to lynch scum. And only 3 townies on 1 wagon to lynch a town.

If the auro wagon breaks down, 0 chance to lynch scum in 2 days, will be a no lynch or miss lynch.

[Lamees]

I don't see it happening within the next 2 days. We would need around 5 townies on 1 wagon to lynch scum. And only 3 townies on 1 wagon to lynch a town.

If the auro wagon breaks down, 0 chance to lynch scum in 2 days, will be a no lynch or miss lynch.

[Lamees]

@Not_Mafia, if not Yuriko, who else do you think is a good lynch today?

@Lamees: Not at all. I'm ready to vote with Not_Mafia and Ariane (both TRs for me at this point). I believe Volxen should change his read on me by now, and should join in. I don't think Flavor Leaf is going to continue voting for me either without a good case -- if he's casing, I'm ready to hear.

It'll be a miss lynch then. Guarantee it.

[Lamees]

Auro (L-1)

: volxen, Flavor Leaf, Lamees, snowbeast

Flavor Leaf (L-2)

: Ariane, Auro, Not_Mafia

Ariane (L-4)

: YurikoJasmine

lionheart1492

What?

[Lamees]

Unvoting auro there is the scummiest move in history tbh

[Lamees]

Auro (L-2)

: volxen, Lamees, snowbeast

Flavor Leaf (L-3)

: Ariane, Not_Mafia

volxen (L-4)

: Flavor Leaf

Ariane (L-4)

: YurikoJasmine

lionheart1492, Auro

Auro saying that he is the only co firmed town to himself is what I was getting at with the “anyone but me”

Everyone is confirmed town to themselves. Are you not?

It’s a newbie game so I was trying to just lay out the situation/make sure we’re all on the same page.

Flavor leaf is correct that him coming in and unvoting auro is his towniest move in this position but it could also just be him seeing a d2 Lynch on him in the cards when auro flipped town. Leaning town on him and wouldn’t lynch today but don’t think he’s obvious town.

Why would I see a day 2 lynch on the cards? I know how to push mislynches and get out of them as scum. In that scenario, I could easily just turn on Lamees tomorrow as scum.

Turning it against me would be kinda hard when you had a wagon of players scum reading you day 1.

[Lamees]

Cue Newbie 1893, the last game Lamees and I were in, where Thor went off a wagon at L-1 because he didn't scumread that slot anymore. And flipped town at the end.

Lol this is as pointless as me saying you were scum that game therefore you're scum this game.

[Lamees]

Why/how is volxen scum?

[Lamees]

UNVOTE: auro

[Lamees]

ok Lamees is town who has 1 read and has tunneled in on it at this point. Auro and FL are both bad lynches today. Where do you want to lynch instead? (Not necessarily awful if she’s at certain as she’s portraying)

I would love to lynch today so thanksgiving can be night phase. I’ll get my own priority out in a bit but it’s mt sisters birthday so Im mainly responding to stuff while with family rn.

I dont have 1 read, my strongest read is actually NM. But this town pool loses to scum NM 9/10 times imo. So might as well just go with it. The lynch on him isnt happening. So I went with the next lynch I found scummy, that's not happening either.

I will repeat what I said earlier, there's not enough time to lynch scum anymore. 5 townies in perfect co-ordination on a scum player in such short time isnt possible. But 3 towns and 2 scum pushing a lynch quickly is more realistic here. So we can expect a miss lynch or a no lynch.

[Lamees]

Unvoting auro there is the scummiest move in history tbh

UNVOTE:

This is the opposite of true

Why does scum Flavour Leaf risk destabilising that wagon?

If he is scum he knows auro's alignment. Therefore he knows he is at risk tomorrow. Look at the timing of the unvote. What was posted before his unvote? He is the second biggest wagon AND on the misslynch wagon? Easy lynch tomorrow. I mean if I was scum there I am for sure hopping off. But the way he hopped off was a bit TOO scummy to be scum. So I am gonna leave it as NAI.

[Lamees]

FL is the goat so scum FL wouldn't slip like that. Giving him the benefit of the doubt here.

[Lamees]

I will take full responsibility if auro flips green. He won't but in the rare case he does.

Turning it against me would be kinda hard when you had a wagon of players scum reading you day 1.

He's not the easiest lynch tomorrow, you would be. If I did get lynched.

You really think so? Why do you think I posted that I'd take responsibility?

[Lamees]

Nope. It's actually because if you were lynched and flipped green scum would be more likely to use that post against me.

[Lamees]

Auro (L-3)

: volxen, snowbeast

Lamees (L-4)

: Not_Mafia

Flavor Leaf (L-4)

: Ariane

volxen (L-4)

: Flavor Leaf

Ariane (L-4)

: YurikoJasmine

lionheart1492, Auro, Lamees

My read list still stands btw. Auro flips town here? Really? As pointed out he was in "anyone but me" mode. Even admitted he wouldnt want FL to be lynched but this vote and wagon was there anyway. But I guess that panicky survival instincts isnt really alignment indicative, and new town would often do weird stuff to avoid a lynch.

Which reminds me, I once saw a new town fake power role claim, lol those were the days. FL do you remember? Lmao. The dojaj saga.

Anyways I'll wait to see this case on volx.

[Lamees]

Anyone play with yuriko before?

[Lamees]

Seems like prod dodging lol. JK

[Lamees]

I am 100% against the extension.

[Lamees]

Extension clearly favours town in this position. I want a fair game.

[Lamees]

Those are not mod interference.

[Lamees]

I don't see what the problem is. FL has been responding and has been here. He made his case maybe?

Imagine someone suggesting the day 1 be cut to 5 days because there are very active and strong town players. Would that be ok with you? Even when the game said 10 days.

[Lamees]

I think we should try to lynch soon regardless of what the mod decides.


Any idea what the vote count is?

[Lamees]

Anyone L-2?

[Lamees]

Please can somebody explain to me what "meta" is.
not knowing has made the last two pages make no sense

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Meta

[Lamees]

I think we should try to lynch soon regardless of what the mod decides.

Waiting for FL's own case on Volxen, Ariane to post her thoughts, Volxen to offer a defense.

I'm not voting prematurely because we have multiple slots willing to sheep.

If you're trying TWTBAW "scum will more likely pounce on me" tactics, that's not gonna work. If you're town, you're painting yourself as a *valid* target, scum might just sit back and let the lynch happen.

@FL: Why don't you think scum!Lamees wouldn't do what she's doing so far? Is deep tunneling, LAMEEST, seeking to bum-rush a... lunch, beyond her scumgame? Don't you think her anti-town behaviour should not be encouraged?

I don't follow. How does post 389 mean I'm trying TWTBAW(whatever that means). Actually how do you get any of that second part of your post from 389?

[Lamees]

I don't quite follow.

We SHOULD lynch soon regardless of extension. How am I scum for saying that? And I will take full responsibility for your lynch. And there is a high chance we miss lynch today.

Are you low key trying to throw shade here? Calling me anti town lol. I am just stating the obvious. I don't see how that benefits or harms town.

Btw I have a pretty small history on the site so that wad actually the scummiest play I've seen in history. Sure maybe I'm exaggerating a bit. But you seem to attach "anti town" go every word I post.

[Lamees]

Flavor Leaf (L-3)

: Ariane, volxen

Auro (L-4)

: snowbeast

Lamees (L-4)

: Not_Mafia

volxen (L-4)

: Flavor Leaf

Ariane (L-4)

: YurikoJasmine

lionheart1492, Auro, Lamees

I can see why you would push the fact thatnI'm "anti town" all game. So that you can shift blame later on.

[Lamees]

Wish I knew what on earth you're referring to.

[Lamees]

Ariane, you were gonna post some thoughts yourself..?
Only thing discouraging me from going ahead with Volxen is Lamees' attempts to rush it.

I am not even voting volxen let alone rushing a lynch on him lol

[Lamees]

Still a null read to me. I'll be voting NM.

[Lamees]

I hope the newly subbed in player is able to catch up and provide a fresh perspective.

[Lamees]

Why is not_mafia not being lynched? "Met" isn't really the right excuse for his scum play this game.

[Lamees]

"Meta" not "met"

[Lamees]

He's scum I'm town. There's a difference.

[Lamees]

The problem is that our info from the wagon is thrown out the window now since we have to base it on two assumptions, 1, auro is town, 2, the wagon contained scum. We cannot proceed to do the analysis since he wasn't flipped.

Anyways:

Strong town lean - snowbeast
Sort of town lean - ariane, lion
Null - volx, FL, performer
Sort of scum lean - auro
Strong scum lean - not_mafia

With the day running out I am willing to hammer null reads if they manage to get to L-1 since people are scared to hammer. But it doesnt look like we'll even get to L-1 lol

[Lamees]

I already said why I was town reading him before the vote. The town slip. Not confirmed but there is evidence to believe it was a town slip.

[Lamees]

I cant see any scum or town vibes from him. Sure he tried to lynch you. Town needs to lynch too.

[Lamees]

@auro why do you scum read snowbeast? Why out of no where do you suggest a lynch on him? Do you think that wasn't a town slip?

[Lamees]

"He tried to lunch me*
Do you think this is the basis of the case on him?

Pretty much. I remember you pushing a pressure wagon on him. Didnt someone (maybe even you yourself) say that he passed that pressure stuff? Because the wagon on him dissolved. It picked up again because you almost got lynched.

[Lamees]

Also FL every game somehow manages to break up an L-1 wagon all by himself. If you are scum just pocket FL. He will save your ass.

GOAT

[Lamees]

FMPOV and off the top of my head, scumread on Snowbeast because:
Fluff, no vote till post 270,the Not_Mafia vote without reading other posts, sheeping your reads list (which I find bad currently), hopping onto my wagon at L-2 blindly, "scum would do this | I would do that if I were scum" posts.

Like pretty unsure and confused about everything but ready to sheep you readily. *Ping*

You're leaving out the part where he didn't even sheep me in the first place. He voted someone else. You and I were the one who said he should vote for you, only then he did that.

Also I don't see scum in your reasons mentioned in this paragraph.

I mean I could take any iso and put it in paragraph form and attach "and that's why I scum read this player".

What do you think if his "town slip"

[Lamees]

volxen (L-3)

: Flavor Leaf, Auro

Flavor Leaf (L-3)

: Ariane, volxen

Auro (L-4)

: snowbeast

Lamees (L-4)

: Not_Mafia

Ariane (L-4)

: Performer

lionheart1492, Lamees

@performer I asked him specifically because I wanted to see if his vote on auro was a scum read or a reaction test

[Lamees]

volxen (L-3)

: Flavor Leaf, Auro

Flavor Leaf (L-3)

: Ariane, volxen

Auro (L-4)

: snowbeast

Lamees (L-4)

: Not_Mafia

Ariane (L-4)

: YurikoJasmine

lionheart1492, Lamees

@performer I asked him specifically because I wanted to see if his vote on auro was a scum read or a reaction test

what do you think of that slot now, who was IC for you in 2+ games?

Suspicious of him. Don't have anything specific, just a gut feel he might be scum. But then again I have that feeling about everyone (besides snowbeast). Just going to leave him at null until proven otherwise.

[Lamees]

Can't say I didnt see that one coming. Volxen is power role every game he's in.

Snowbeast is definitely not the lynch today.

[Lamees]

Not sure, I am leaving him at null.

[Lamees]

Lamees, your vote isn't anywhere, who should be today's lynch then?

NM

[Lamees]

@FL: Snowsheep|Performer is my favorite solve ATM, although I can see associations with other slots as well. Ariane's soft-tunnel on you strikes me as towny though, I feel scum!Ariane would've quickly gauged the gamestate and gone on to sheep our Volx-vote. *Shrug*

@Lamees: At least 4 of us think he's town. He's not going to be today's lynch.

He's scum though, but even if not It's better than no lynch. You already know he's done with his game solving. Tomorrow it's just vote lamees. Bbmolla all over again lol.

[Lamees]

Well he is my strongest townread. So I won't be voting him.

[Lamees]

Sure, why not

[Lamees]

I didn't give up. That was just me acknowledging that I'll have a vote stuck on me for the rest of the game.

I'll hammer if he gets to L-1

[Lamees]

Who is snowbeast?

A player that got replaced by performer

[Lamees]

It was a joke answer to a rhetorical question...

[Lamees]

When snowbeast flips green at least we can lynch on that wagon tomorrow.

[Lamees]

When snowbeast flips green at least we can lynch on that wagon tomorrow.

run

fatalism

.exe

Really!?

[Lamees]

@Ariane: Why do you think you'd possibly be lunched?
Performer was the only vote on you and he backed down later.
Snow has far more reasons than OMGUS/PoE to be today's lunch.
It's dessert day today.

@Lamees: Which wagon?

The snowbeast wagon.

[Lamees]

Thanks ariane :DD
Poost 573 and 575 go together, he meant to quote himself.

Do you really think the snowbeast wagon is all town? The wagon isnt complete yet.

[Lamees]

How is ariane still awake lol.

Speaking of time zones. Looks like I'll be asleep in the final few hours and I'll miss deadline.

[Lamees]

Auro even suggested we should state intent so that snowbeast has a chance to claim lol. Now all of a sudden auro and FL are pinning it on ariane.

FL and/or auro are scum and we lynch one of the tomorrow. Period.

[Lamees]

Declaring intent to hammer somehow makes ariane scum? That is obvious scum slip from both auro and FL.

Lol gg. That was fun.

[Lamees]

/forfeit.exe

[Lamees]

/forfeit.exe

Town wins?

Town lost. We have a troll on our team lol.

[Lamees]

aw tho hey streak broken probs

Yeah probably, my bet is on performer or volx nk. But it could be anyone besides auro and FL obviously (cant kill themeselves). Oh and NM. No way they kill him.

[Lamees]

So if we are in column B they could gamble and go for volx. Column C they def not killing volx.

[Lamees]

@lion you make posts like that so they for sure not killing you lol

[Lamees]

@lion you make posts like that so they for sure not killing you lol

so it's working

I'm unsure about this profile pic but I'm gonna leave it for now. Kind of made me laugh so it earned it's spot.

You're right. I take back whatever I said. FL quick hammering there and then trying to shade ariane for giving intent is the TOWNIEST move in history tbh. Please don't night kill me. Kill NM.

[Lamees]

LMAO YES

VOTE: volxen

volxen and FL?

[Lamees]

LMAO YES

VOTE: volxen

volxen and FL?

Lamees you know from firsthand experience that it happens -- you and FL have firsthand experience with a VT who fakeclaimed tracker, no?

I don't think I should just be autolynched.

You should be auto lynched, it makes sense to fake claim tracker as scum since you knew there isn't a tracker in the game in column A, only mafia would know we are in column A.
You didn't expect to get this lucky as scum by nailing both other power roles on before day 2. So while it was lucky, it was also unlucky lol.

Most likely FL is your partner, but I'm not so sure. We can sort that out another time.

[Lamees]

FL has been extremely scummy from the get go but I'm not sure if it is him because he bussed you day 1. But I do think he is capable of it as scum. Just don't see the reason to do so.

[Lamees]

The way day 1 wagons went I am leaning volxen/ariane. Would be interesting to see ariane's reaction to the fake tracker claim.

[Lamees]

Also, like...it sucks, and I’m scummy for probably saying it, but I think Volxen fakecclaiming tracker as town makes sense.

Ariana is scum with one of Lionheart or Performer, I’d say.

NM did some townie things yesterday, including his unvote on me.

You have got to be kidding me. There is 0% chance volx is town here. Imagine we didn't land on the two power roles. He'd be throwing fake tracks by now and wouldn't have admitted he fake claimed. Fake claiming tracker is super destructive for town, and no chance town volxen does this. And the fact we are in column A makes it a 0% chance for anyone to counter claim him, which mafia would know. Volxen is 1 of the scum.
Other one I'm leaning is you or ariane. Waiting to see her response to the fake claim.

[Lamees]

Lamees, in what world does ScumFL kill Auro here. He was literally my biggest defender in a game where I’ve had a decent amount of suspicion on me.

Even for WIFOM purposes, Auro kill is incredibly not beneficial for ScumFL and drastically would hurt my chances at living.

Scum is hoping I get pushed this day phase without Auro to defend me.

About the auro night kill, my assumptions are:

1) With the doctor being lynched, them knowing we are in column A had to now land on a VANILLA TOWNIE for the night kill, or volx would be exposed. With auro at L-1 and didn't claim power role, they assumed he was the safest night kill. Well played by auro here to not claim early.

2) They wanted to somehow frame me by making a case that I'd kill auro because we were beefing all of day 1? Less likely, I think I'm spot on with option 1.

[Lamees]

True, I actually cannot argue with that. But for now we lynch volx.

[Lamees]

Ok if we lynch volx, he obviously flips red, then it really is FL. But fine there will be one scum left so ou can lynch me since there would be room for error. When I flip green please lynch FL. He is scum.

Quick hammered an obv town snowbeast without intention.
Actually DEFENDING VOLXEN LOL, with his knowledge of the game you really think he actually thinks volxen is town?

The lynch pool after volx is actually FL-ariane-me in that order. My posting just happened to be inconveniently timed with volxens so it looks like we planned it and I'm bussing him, I get that. But FL being constantly defended and town read is just baffling.

[Lamees]

I find it bizarre as well, but I've seen a lot of...bizarre things in my FM career, for varying reasons from players.
It really doesn't make sense that he and volx are same alignment, because him defending volx would be suicide.

FL I want to hear your explanation of your reads on me/ariane/lionheart.

If it's suicide then why is he not getting lynched????? It's a wifom scum gambit imo. Will not work on me.

[Lamees]

What's your read on volx?

[Lamees]

Ok FL who should we lynch then?

[Lamees]

I’ve just seen a lot of fake claims as town from people in these newbie games.

It's volxen though, an SE player. Not like the time where a brand new player (who never played before) fake claimed as town, that player couldnt even make cases and didn't know any mafia terms etc. Also the player hasn't played again, think they probably never logged in lol. Also we were in column C that day which has a tracker in, and a chance the player could have gotten counter claimed. That was a true town fake claim.

Volxens is a scum fake claim since we happen to be in the column with no tracker in so it was actually a good scum play, which can be expected from volxen. He got unlucky by killing both other power roles. Town volxen 0% chance.

Someone should hammer.

@performer - my scum reads were nm and auro.
Volx and FL - null, was willing to hammer these two. Tbh FL was a scum read but I put him as null because I'm biased lol.

[Lamees]

In what world am I scum with Volxen here? Volxen was flat out pushing me day 1, I don’t kill Auro ever here, zero reason for me to not bus Volxen as a partner here.

Sure, ONE of these would warrant a scum read, but the combination of ALL these is pointless and irrelevant as scum. Nothing I do ever as scum is irrelevant or lazy. I’m hyper focused when I’m scum.

Like, I should be near objectively town read

If it were anyone else I would see no connection to you and volxen. You pushed a wagon hard against him day 1 up until the claim. But you said yourself, your scum game is strong.

Only mistake you're making here is that I just cannot picture why or how town FL would think volxen is actually town.

Pedit: ok well then idk who the partner is now lol

[Lamees]

I was really torn between FL and ariane. Looks like we keep getting lucky. FL scum

[Lamees]

I refused to vote snowbeast because the case on him was extremely weak and I've stated why I believed his town slip.

Of course if there are two power roles that are revealed and a fake power role, I am gonna lynch that player lol. I agree at the time it looked planned because of the timing of mine and volxes posts. But I mean, if you think about it, as scum you would be wary of timing and distancing of posts in order not to make it obvious.

Anyway. It's FL. With a small chance of performer. I want to say well played to lion for his first game. Bar the snowbeast lynch I think he played well. He recognized volx needed to go without much pushing from me, was strange I even needed to push that case so hard on obv scum volx. And lions day 3 posts pretty much sum up where I'm at at the moment.

[Lamees]

I was looking at your ISO. How come you leaped from nm being strongly scum to FL now??

Why are nm & lion not scum for you, I don't get your thought process.

Day 1 my reads were wrong. My scum reads were auro and nm. Obviously volx was scum judging from the power role reveals. Why would I push my day 1 scum reads that were wrong? Nm is town, I am not going to push a lynch on him just because I refuse to admit my day 1 reads were wrong. You should be able to tell that me being consistent on my day 1 reads are not important if there are more obvious signs that the scum lie else where, like with volx and FL (and would be ariane in this pool but she was night killed lol, score)

FL has been the most scum like, quick hammered snowbeast with no intention so that he couldn't claim. Defended volx by saying he thought volx actually fake claimed as town. He was shading/scum reading ariane all game, last minute town read and all of a sudden shes night killed.

But you asking me how can I change my scum reads from auro and nm to volx and FL is a bit puzzling. There were stronger scum signs/reads being revealed as the game progressed lol.

[Lamees]

As for how lion and nm are town.

Lion seems to be town because we are having the same thought process. I like how he picked up volx was obvious scum and voted. Then he revealed his next lynch was FL and ariane, but with a chance of you being scum too, which is what I was thinking.

NM is town because he was tunneling me since day 1 and out of all the volx votes he thinks I am the one that is bussing volx, so at least he is consistent. Also he voted volx without any signs of scumminess. I mean I do wish he was night killed because his constant vote on me is a bit of a burden and can still lose town the game. But the way the game went, I got to admit he is town.

[Lamees]

You were town reading me. But I think it makes it easier when you're scum reading me.

FL we have a miss lynch, so we can lynch me today but town needs to promise me when I flip green you (FL) are tomorrows lynch.

[Lamees]

Intent to hammer

[Lamees]

As for how lion and nm are town.

Lion seems to be town because we are having the same thought process. I like how he picked up volx was obvious scum and voted. Then he revealed his next lynch was FL and ariane, but with a chance of you being scum too, which is what I was thinking.

NM is town because he was tunneling me since day 1 and out of all the volx votes he thinks I am the one that is bussing volx, so at least he is consistent. Also he voted volx without any signs of scumminess. I mean I do wish he was night killed because his constant vote on me is a bit of a burden and can still lose town the game. But the way the game went, I got to admit he is town.

This is scum pandering to the two they need to convince the most.

NM is after Lamees right now.

And Lionheart is the most likely to also jump on me.

Alongside, NM is already basically universally town read, so this doesn’t actually mean much

NM is locked. No convincing him. Lion is voting you, I can see he has a feel for where this game is at.

The one who I need to convince and will decide the lynch is performer but he has been super passive even with the volx vote. So I'm not sure what will happen.

So this pandering comment makes the case that you are scum stronger.

[Lamees]

Also, zero reason to ever defend Volxen yesterday like that as scum partners with him.

Those are too obvious of associations, and that’s a weak push on me.

I’m happy going Lamees today.

Performer and NM are both town in my books.

I thought Lionheart was the bus yesterday, but Lamees makes sense as that as well.

There was 0 reason to defend volx as town. And the reason to defend him as scum is to cause wifom.

[Lamees]

Also, zero reason to ever defend Volxen yesterday like that as scum partners with him.

Those are too obvious of associations, and that’s a weak push on me.

I’m happy going Lamees today.

Performer and NM are both town in my books.

I thought Lionheart was the bus yesterday, but Lamees makes sense as that as well.

There was 0 reason to defend volx as town. And the reason to defend him as scum is to cause wifom.

I mean, I hammered him.

So I’m literally on both sides of the coin.

Again, zero reason to be on both sides, as I get the heat from both sides.

Flawed case again.

You hammered after I said I can't see a reason town FL would defend volx.

So why'd you hammer snoweast without intent and shade ariane for giving intent to hammer him?

[Lamees]

Also, more importantly. How has no one even asked you that? I mean I know you're scum so I dont need to ask. But there are actually players in this game town reading you.

[Lamees]

Btw notice how in every twilight FL starts scum reading any players at random lol. I assure you he did not do this as town.

[Lamees]

When we hammered snowbeast - FL starts quoting ariane saying she is scum.

When we hammered volx - FL already starts quoting lionheart and scum reading him.

[Lamees]

Btw notice how in every twilight FL starts scum reading any players at random lol. I assure you he did not do this as town.

This is actually a misrep.

Gamma Emerald, someone who’s played with me more than anyone on site, even says my issue when I’m town is my second guessing and incessantly switching my scum reads.

I don’t do this as scum at all, as I’m much more confident when i’m Scum.

Not after we just got a lynch. You do switch reads a lot, that isn't alignment indicative. The two games I played with you when you were town, you never once started scum reading people after we got a lynch in twilight.

After "we" hammered snowbeast you started going off pointing where the scum is lol. Like not even waiting for the flip. Same with volx, saying who was bussing as if you knew he was scum but at that point you shouldnt have been sure, since you decided to try to defend him for wifom reasons lol.

Did you answer why you hammered snowbeast without intent and tried to push scumminess onto ariane when she at least gave intent lol.

VOTE: flavor leaf

If we lynch FL today town wins. I guarantee it. If there was scum elsewhere there would have been more votes on me or anyone else.

[Lamees]

Grats town.

[Lamees]

Jk we lose lol.

[Lamees]

How FL won beats me.

[Lamees]

He basically used my exact tactic against me and everyone fell for it. For sure he won't be lynched tomorrow as promised.

[Lamees]

It was looking like Ariane was the most likely lynch so I'm confused by her death. Will read more into performer and FL because I'm pretty certain that both NM and Lamees are town.

?

[Lamees]

I think lionheart's hammer is the losing play if he is town. It doesn't make sense. He kind of has to get lynched tomorrow now.

[Lamees]

Oh, could be nm too. Because of random death tunnelling on me since day 1.

And could be performer, he is just too passive. Has he even voted on a lynch or wagon yet?

So my final thoughts are:

Could be either 1 of you 4 lol. Good luck!

[Lamees]

Well I mean, there was 0% chance to convince anyone NM was mafia. Wrong town pool I guess.

[Lamees]

True. And FL is the goat.

[Lamees]

@auro, yeah we should hydra, but first admit you gave NM a free pass since day 1. Can't blame me not engaging you lol. WE WERE THE TWO MOST ACTIVE POSTERS ON DAY 1, ENGAGING EACHOTHER ALL THE TIME. If I think back, what I remember is you dismissing all the engagement as "it's just NMs meta" or "guys its lamees she is just anti town here is a previous game look how anti town she is" or something like that.

[Lamees]

@auro, yeah we should hydra, but first admit you gave NM a free pass since day 1. Can't blame me not engaging you lol. WE WERE THE TWO MOST ACTIVE POSTERS ON DAY 1, ENGAGING EACHOTHER ALL THE TIME. If I think back, what I remember is you dismissing all the engagement as "it's just NMs meta" or "guys its lamees she is just anti town here is a previous game look how anti town she is" or something like that.

Welllll I've been admitting this the whole time, read my earlier posts. What made you go off N_M and on to FL later on?

I don't dismiss any engagement, ever. I just keep asking questions till there's a disagreement on some fundamental principle. I kept trying to engage you on your scumread of me, asking you to go into specifics, which you refused to because of your tunnel on me.

It made sense to me that you were likely his partner because of the hard defense of him, and also the constant shade from both you and NM against me?

As to why I shifted to FL,

partly

because I gave up and admitted we have lost to scum NM if he is scum, judging from your defense of him and the way other townies were reacting to him, I just couldnt picture how he gets lynched here. He could literally do anything, which he has done, and get away with it.

But

mostly

because I eventually got influenced by the flips, I mean, there was no reason for you to lie and defend NM so strongly if you were town JK, I usually try to use wagon info. I guess good play from NM to defend you day 1? I think a key part of scum victory here is NM using you as a stepping stone to perfection. And also

mostly

because FL was scummy. Can you think of town player defending volx there? Or Shading before everyone hammer even flips? etc

My options were to death tunnel NM alone all game which would probably just make me look crazy, or hope that NM is town and move on to other reads.

I do apologize to FL though, I put him in a TvT situation, but even if that didnt happen, we werent gonna lynch NM, we'd have probably lynched performer or lion or something. So same results. We lost because this pool can't lynch NM. Fact. No matter what reasoning people try to use, we lost to a meta defence. Which is weird because I don't even know NM or how he plays. Oh well lol. Oh and NM and volx did actually play well don't get me wrong, volx got unfortunate, but he was probably expecting to set up NM for the win anyway, I mean him claiming tracker early, he was ready for it to catch up to him eventually, but just not so soon lol.

[Lamees]

From my POV on day 1since it was NM and auro against me, I take it as scum. I can see why auro thinks it's a bad case because NM intentionally set it up like that. If it were me and NM vs auro I think he'd have a better understanding of why it's easier to see scum is either 1 of us or both of us.

Also auro, why I thought you were scum, you linked previous games in an attempt to downplay reads. Which is something I'd ONLY DO AS SCUM. If I was scum and really wanted to push your reads down or push a lynch of you, I'd link a game and hilight points from that game with a scum twist on them. That's a scum agenda. As town there's no real reason for me to do that as town, since it's most of the time wrong anyway. For example, what I felt you were doing is basically equivalent to me linking this game and calling you anti town in alll future games. It just doesnt make sense (unless I'm scum obviously). Like why would I as town link this game and say well look what auro did he voted snowbeast or he defended NM. He is anti town. So his case in basically invalid.

[Lamees]

But you did flip town and I guess we just have to agree on different playstyles.

[Lamees]

MiniDeathStar is advocating two things:
1. Policy lynch people who are hard to read;
2. Scumread someone for an action even if they've done it as town in the past.

The first makes the game sorta meh, and won't apply just to Not_Mafia alone, but any competent scum player. This is also bad for the game since you're wasting lunches on unreadable slots instead of attempting to sort them, or use mechanics to your advantage.

The second is just gonna lead to inaccurate reads.

Higher chances though, I admit policy lynching is not always good. But look at it this way. If we lynched NM over snowbeast day one I think town stood better odds. Obviously it's a game of chance majority of the time. But there are cases policy lynches help. You went with the blanket effect of meta always works and policy lynches are bad. I suggest having an open mind and using game specific cases to deal with meta and policy lynches. Not just "meta works" and "policy lynches are bad".

Anyway. GG all, thanks for the game, and thanks minideathstar for hosting with so much effort!

[Lamees]

You both came at me with incorrect cases. Of course there was scum (from my POV). You claim if he was town I still wouldn't like his ISO... So you're saying if he was town he'd still death tunnel me for no reason at all? Lol doubt.

[Lamees]

Ok so let's see it. How would you catch scum NM then auro? Because what you are saying is basically you lose to scum NM all the time then. Since you need to see a difference between his games lol. There is a thing called intuition. You asking me to show proof or evidence of NMs difference between his scum and town game doesn't make sense. If you're so insistent of clear and obvious proof, why do you miss lynch then? Show me clear and obvious proof of snowbeast being scum. Show me your town games. I'd like to see all your votes. Because something tells me they are majority against town players.

Don't understand how you can want clear/undeniable proof for others cases, but your cases? Let's see them. Show me where you've caught scum lol

(In all seriousness there's no reason for you to show me anything, I don't care. Just accept/admit there are ways to catch scum without having these "undeniable clear solid proof evidences cases" you keep demanding)

[Lamees]

I also would like for anyone to point out what exactly was the case on snowbeast please. I showed why and how he even made a legit town slip. JK, But that was mean of minideathstar to make sure she includes "lamees: I told you not to lunch the doctor" in every mod post! I didnt even say that once

ok maybe once or twice.

[Lamees]

I think I stated before that a shitposting Not_Mafia shouldn't make it to LyLo without being investigated?
I'd catch any hard-to-read slot like Not_Mafia through votecounts, investigatives, PoE.

I'm saying your "intuition" is unreliable. If you consistently sort Not_Mafia correctly based on intuition alone, I will gladly accept that your intuition on Not_Mafia is great.
Also, trusting your "intuition" also means I have to trust that you're town -- If you're scum, you would very easily make "gut" cases against people without any real content and not have to answer for them, which works to your advantage.

I'm not saying I want clear/undeniable proof.
Cases can be sound and convincing, without being necessarily correct.
Let's say I just said "Lamees is scum! My intuition is talking" and someone said "Yeah, I trust his intuition" what would be your reaction?

Don't understand how you can want clear/undeniable proof for others cases, but your cases? Let's see them. Show me where you've caught scum lol

I've read Volxen's ISO, and it's funny how he never responded to WHY he shifted his vote from me to Flavor Leaf.

He talks about how scum!Flavor could have motivations in unvoting me, and concludes by saying: "The fact that you left Auro's wagon in favor of voting for me and presenting a case against me does not in and of itself clear you as town."

He said he voiced skepticism of Flavor way back in post 245. Even there, it's just skepticism and NOT a scumread. He simply says that if Flavor's town it makes sense, and if Flavor's scum it makes sense.

To summarise, from Volx's POV:
1. Flavor's reaction test can come from town or scum
2. Flavor's unvoting Auro can come from town or scum

And goes on to unvote me and vote Flavor. While maintaining that he's *highly* suspicious of me.

Therefore,
VOTE: Volxen

Day 1 - intuition > bad cases on OUR DOCTOR BTW

[Lamees]

He made a townslip, which shows that any case against him was auto bad? I kid I kid. But anyway, your case on him was from your POV so it's ok from your POV but from mine bad. Ok

[Lamees]

Just like my case on NM from my POV made sense to me but from your POV it was bad.

[Lamees]

Agreed, they can. But not in that way (unless experienced player makes an alt and uses that method of slip).

Pedit: I think you two wouldn't be able to get the timing and wording as perfect, but we'll see I guess.

[Lamees]

Oh and FL was also unlynchable as fuck lol. Another auto lose if he rolled scum this game.

[Lamees]

Hmm I don't think it was about defending. The way FL was attacking should have made it clear perdormer was town. I like performers style. But there's no winning against:

FL "Lion end it"
Lion "Ok"

[Lamees]

Agreed, they can. But not in that way (unless experienced player makes an alt and uses that method of slip).

Pedit: I think you two wouldn't be able to get the timing and wording as perfect, but we'll see I guess.

The most unfortunate was the timing of your D2 exchange with Volxen
I was like, SO sure it was scum theater! Argh

Yeah I agree.....nm pointing it out on d2 made me get paranoid abotu lames . thankfully I reevaluated her ISO several times and said, "no, this is town lames." I was familiar with her town game already when I silently spectated James Doakes (friend of mine), FL, and Lames in the newbie game with Varsoon, xx2008, RCEnigma, etc.

Oh and FL was also unlynchable as fuck lol. Another auto lose if he rolled scum this game.

I wonder how a 1v1 between me and FL would've gone.

I actually am curious about that too lol! You both are much wordier than me so I am curious.

Hmm I don't think it was about defending. The way FL was attacking should have made it clear perdormer was town. I like performers style. But there's no winning against:

FL "Lion end it"
Lion "Ok"

Thank you Lames

That was actually my worse game as town lol. Reads were bad as hell. We still won somehow. James daokes and varsoon impressed me that game. I definitely rate them as top players. I still think FL is the goat though, for his ability to literally control multiple players actions in game.