Newbie 1909 | Scheme | Over

[Clemency]

what's up guys i'm the se which gives me the spiritual privilege to shitpost

[Clemency]

it's a bold move, cotton
VOTE: dicideaq

[Clemency]

1.been here a while
2.mess around till nullread
3.mess around till nullread
4.mess around till nullread

[Clemency]

though i did take a newbie game since the air is more serious around here
so i can kinda try

[Clemency]

oh right, amzela, you were in overkill 2 (i think)
i highly recommend you get an avatar simply because it helps accentuate your personality and the type of playstyle you want to convey
also it's good on the eyes

[Clemency]

loopydoop stop bullying the newbies

[Clemency]

you can tell a lot about me compared to loopdan from it, for example

[Clemency]

sounds reasonable VOTE: loopdan

[Clemency]

Clem you never unvoted dicideaq did you?

ah yeah idk if you had to in the past but you dont need to unvote to vote someone else

[Clemency]

I'll sheep Clem. That vote is towney.

VOTE: Loopdan

That's L-1

ngl i'd hammer this

[Clemency]

that's like
lvl 9 questionable

[Clemency]

@loop please unvote yourself
i dont need scum throwing this early

[Clemency]

Clem, why are you asking me to unvote when you have that power within yourself?

because i asked you

[Clemency]

Clem, why are you asking me to unvote when you have that power within yourself?

because i asked you

Question: "Why did you ask me?"
Answer: "Because I asked you."

C'mon you can do better.

no, this is a perfectly fine reason
i'm not unvoting you because you're giving me a perfectly fine reason to vote you
unvote yourself now please and thank you

[Clemency]

scheme looks really complicated can i just do python

[Clemency]

wait are you trying to complain that i didn't unvote you 2h after you unvoted yourself

[Clemency]

also i'm not unvoting because you're being horribly defensive about it

[Clemency]

Complaining is your word. I said surprised. I don't get why you'd ask me to unvote myself when you had your vote on me. Please explain that.

because i'd like to see you play to your win-con thanks

[Clemency]

also i'm not unvoting because you're being horribly defensive about it

I'm not sure I understand. Horribly defensive about what? Being voted?

me questioning your self-vote

[Clemency]

i always take things like that as a soft scumclaim because it's needless wifom and i discourage it

[Clemency]

you can phrase anything with that inclination to make it sound dumb

[Clemency]

That makes no sense.

And it also makes no sense that you'd insist I unvote myself but refuse to unvote me.

because there's so much sense in self-voting to l-1, right?
you're saying words but all i hear is "scum wouldnt do that, there for i'm town, right, guys? guys??"

[Clemency]

If you didn't want me at L-1 because you feared a mislynch, why not unvote? If you wanted me lynched because you think I'm scum, why demand I unvote to get me off L-1?

It kinda looks like you wanted it both ways.

i didn't fear a mislynch
i want you playing to your win-con

[Clemency]

That makes no sense.

And it also makes no sense that you'd insist I unvote myself but refuse to unvote me.

because there's so much sense in self-voting to l-1, right?
you're saying words but all i hear is "scum wouldnt do that, there for i'm town, right, guys? guys??"

I've never said or implied that scum wouldn't do this. In fact I'll make it clear: I've seen scum self-vote more often than town. But you are trying to change the subject instead of just explaining your thinking.

no, you're misrepresenting what i'm saying
of course you wouldnt imply the potential intent of your actions if you were scum
you're trying to debase me by picking out my contradictions instead of actually acqknowledging the points i'm making against you

[Clemency]

i want you playing to your win-con

You are experienced enough to know I wasn't trying to get myself lynched.

yeah, exactly

[Clemency]

i'll have you know
i had to look up the word acqknowledge like 4 times for that post
that means im serious

[Clemency]

i really want to see how you spin your self-vote as a pro-town maneuver

[Clemency]

Yeah none of that clears it up. So you have no explanation for demanding I unvote myself yet leaving your vote on me.

Got it.

i swear you're trying to misinterpret me on purpose
i'm voting you because i think you're scum
i wanted you to unvote because i wasn't sure you were scum
you got incredibly defensive about it and still are, mind you
therefore, i'm now certain you're scum
you've played the game enough for me to not have to explain this to you

[Clemency]

You're joking, right?

you're consistently trying to debase and discredit me rather than actually play a case
you wouldnt need to do that as town

[Clemency]

good lord i forgot how infuriating actually trying is

[Clemency]

man i'm tuckered out
i'll just appeal to emotion and use my natural charm to get some newer players to support my viewpoints

[Clemency]

go get em, champs

[Clemency]

it is 6 in the morning
i have not slept
why do i do this to myself

[Clemency]

yeah loop's probably town

[Clemency]

i'm tunneling and when i tunnel i'm usually wrong

[Clemency]

good lord i forgot how infuriating actually trying is

As much as I don't get you right now, I much prefer this version of Clem to that memey lazy version.

it gets me consistently townread
:v

[Clemency]

english is a really tough language

[Clemency]

cant
appointment at 12
sleeping now would just make me more tired when i wake up

[Clemency]

allons-y

[Clemency]

Not sure if Clemency will see my question before mod's post.

Clemency: When you voted for dicideaq as the second vote, did you feel he made a scum slip?

i felt he was being contradictory enough in his rqs post

english is a really tough language

What is your native? Francais?

I liked your interplay with LD quite a bit, so thank you for the effort even if it was frustrating.

Estonian, actually
though I live in Finland so i'm fluent enough there too

Ive now completed my readthrough of the game. Oddly, Dan was playing differently than my suspicions. I do scumread Dicideaq's answers to the question ,and I thought Dan did too but didnt want to explain why until the other slots had posted. Instead, he *says* he was just trying to bait easy votes out of the experienced players. Interestingly, he says this in the midst of a 1v1 with an experienced player who did follow him.

The new story earns Dan less town points than I had been awarding. EGL is now my hardest town for the consistent desire for information and using the vote to pressure well.

@Clem what are your thoughts on Amzela?

Hopefully less of the demon rum today...

Amzela seems like an innocent new player, I'm not v good at reading those

Btw I love clemency’s pic so that’s great right there.

thanks hun

[Clemency]

tell me if i missed any questions
i haven't slept in 40 hours

[Clemency]

perfectly fine
gonna sleep soon

[Clemency]

oh my god
tttt is a loopdan alt?
this changes everything

[Clemency]

@teacher are you asking my opinion on amzela or Clem his opinion on me?

Clem on you.

i don't think he's posted enough for me to give a clear read or anything yet
but i like him

[Clemency]

Clem, sheep me and prove you aren't his partner.

sure thing bucko
VOTE: child

[Clemency]

would people be mad if i hammered this

[Clemency]

would people be mad if i hammered this

Yes. State your intent Clem. It's the Newbie Q.

this is me claming intent

[Clemency]

if this game/this life has taught me anything

eyy i get it

[Clemency]

If Clemency is around can I get another vote on amzela?

if we're not lynching dici yet, i'd be happy to
VOTE: amzela

[Clemency]

he seemed pretty likely scum

[Clemency]

having someone in your pocket is, regardless of alignment, essentially having high influence on someone in the game
wagons are generally good to get people talking, i feel like this one was good to distinguish whether dici was lurking or actually just not around

[Clemency]

UNVOTE:
amzela's town

[Clemency]

til = today i learned

[Clemency]

i sheeped to keep up appearances but i feel amzela's opinions on dici are genuine and not lynchworthy

[Clemency]

i disagree with your disagreement

[Clemency]

i like scum to think i'm mislynch bait when i'm town and i like town to dismiss my behavior when i'm scum

[Clemency]

i mean, i find that perfectly reasonable
in my newbie games when i started out, i dreaded visiting the site when i was under accusation

[Clemency]

not at all
i just think she's 51% town

[Clemency]

if that makes any sense

[Clemency]

yeah why not

[Clemency]

ah sorry i thought i answered these
i've been busy over new years coming and stuff

@teacher are you asking my opinion on amzela or Clem his opinion on me?

Clem on you.

i don't think he's posted enough for me to give a clear read or anything yet
but i like him

How fast would you say you normally form reads?

@Clem?

slower than most
i'm pretty anxious about forming an actual scumread on someone especially since i have a habit of hard-tunneling

@Clem, What do you think of Teacher's reads?

i think they're right :p

[Clemency]

1 down c:

[Clemency]

VOTE: child
cant be anyone else
l-1

[Clemency]

i know i had a reason i town binned clem after reading the game this morning

but I can't for the life of me remember why

i have this effect on people

[Clemency]

@clem mate, why can it only be child? why not emp

forgot emp was in this game
i townread everyone else

[Clemency]

i wanna vote emp over child

[Clemency]

NK=night kill. What is NKA?

night kill analysis

[Clemency]

nope

[Clemency]

eh i was trying something clever
you can hammer child

[Clemency]

oh wait teacher unvoted

[Clemency]

@Clem do you have an investigative role which furnished proof that child is the last scum?

Now that its been over a day for Child/Amzela, I will make my position slightly more explicit. My role does not preclude another investigative or semi-investigative. But I have seen only one other possible soft today, and I am not even certain about that. The absence of another result is part of what is making me nervous about the short day: We could lose a PR without the benefits of their results. Further, after the flip at the end of D1, Child would have been the obvious target for most PRs, so I am somewhat surprised at the lack of conclusive proof.

To keep my own role as vague as possible, I will briefly discuss suggestions for all possible inv/semi-inv roles in the spoiler.

I do NOT think people should follow this advice, though, until others (clem/EGL/URAP2/etc) have had a chance to read it and state whether they agree from a mechanical/theory point of view.

Spoiler: PR thoughts

Meaning/suggestions:

• Cop: This one handles itself. You either have an inno, a guilty, or a no result (column A-block target). Crumbing any of the above would be appropriate, as it outs your result if you flip and, even if you dont have one, it attracts the roleblock so that (A3) you can become known!town protected by the unblocked doctor or (A1) the neap is free to get a clear.
  
• Neap: Same/Same: You either have an inno, a 50/50, or a no-result (column A-block target). Crumbing any of the above would be appropriate, for nearly the same reasons. The 50/50 makes sense to crumb because if you die tonight, the 50/50 becomes either known!town or auto.
  
• Jailkeeper: At this point, you are functionally a cop - jailing someone should prevent them from performing the NK, unless we are in column A and scum manages to target the roleblock perfectly. That is pretty darn unlikely last night, with only two PR crumbs (at least that I picked up upon), so your target is likely innocent. That should be crumbed, and your target should not be hit again tonight.
  
• Tracker: You either have a green check (no movement), a red check (movement), or no result (jailkept). A green check is an inno that should be crumbed. A red-check is a 50/50 that makes sense to crumb for the same reason as the neap - if you die tonight, the 50/50 becomes either known!town or auto. A no result likely should
  NOT
  be crumbed because it does not provide additional information/attract a roleblocker (that cannot exist with your role).

Finally, I have to say EGL, while I used the quoted question to start my own PR discussion, it did feel a little like sniffing around for the other PR after my own soft. Indeed, my Wagon analysis moved you down my readslist for the first time, because of everybody on the wagon, it did feel like you were pushing the most to derail it if possible/redirect it to Amzela (the repeat 100% questions and all that). Its not enough to get you out of my townblock for other reasons, but my board now looks like:

Clem
Teacher
URAP2
EGL
Amzela
Flippy
Child

aye, that makes sense
also i'm honored to be ranked higher than yourself

[Clemency]

don't even worry 'bout it

[Clemency]

i'm in support of the hammer

[Clemency]

wait, who claimed a night role?

[Clemency]

ah right

[Clemency]

i think child should still be the lynch

[Clemency]

plot's not online so this'll take a bit

[Clemency]

I implore any power roles to claim right now

[Clemency]

I'll go last, for reasons

[Clemency]

no soft claims, I need your full role

[Clemency]

I want to jump in here before this gets going too much. I’m going to be gone tonight and might be able to post my Wednesday evening but tomorrow is also super cleaning day so I won’t be able to post anything deep.

Is there a reason to mass claim today versus D4? We still don’t want scum to know power roles right?

I wonder if scum has been using teacher’s NKA as a template.

Going back, there’s a reason for why I was surprised that Loop was the kill and I had a NKA but it’s been a while and I’ve stupidly forgotten it. Even though they weren’t the most blatant choice, I wonder if Loop was saying something to make them nervous?

Since Dici died silent and Child died silent, but child being VT, I have a feeling that scum is one of us who’s been talking. Making up for their partner. Is Teacher and EGL done with their discussions? Could we get a EGL analysis?

there's a specific reason i need you all to claim

[Clemency]

I want to jump in here before this gets going too much. I’m going to be gone tonight and might be able to post my Wednesday evening but tomorrow is also super cleaning day so I won’t be able to post anything deep.

Is there a reason to mass claim today versus D4? We still don’t want scum to know power roles right?

I wonder if scum has been using teacher’s NKA as a template.

Going back, there’s a reason for why I was surprised that Loop was the kill and I had a NKA but it’s been a while and I’ve stupidly forgotten it. Even though they weren’t the most blatant choice, I wonder if Loop was saying something to make them nervous?

Since Dici died silent and Child died silent, but child being VT, I have a feeling that scum is one of us who’s been talking. Making up for their partner. Is Teacher and EGL done with their discussions? Could we get a EGL analysis?

there's a specific reason i need you all to claim

Can you give us those reasons at all or are we supposed to just trust you?

the latter

[Clemency]

alright gg

[Clemency]

VOTE: emperor flippynips

[Clemency]

he's lying

[Clemency]

i'm a town neapolitan

[Clemency]

vanilla on teacher n1

[Clemency]

im guessing so

[Clemency]

yeah i've seen ic's get away with the +townpoints from being ic before

[Clemency]

lmao

[Clemency]

nah i'm neapolitan

[Clemency]

dab

[Clemency]

where's all the celebration

[Clemency]

idk about you guys but i never scumread amzela during this game
she reminds me a lot of my first games

[Clemency]

@Clemency: I like the you that plays the game more than the you that meme's, just fyi.

the latter helps me channel the former

[Clemency]

also it's kinda what i came to newbie games for