Newbie 1910: Aerial Photography [Game Over!]

[u r a person 2]

yoooo

give me a few hours to get through the thread

[u r a person 2]

(tbh I'm against replacements)

yikes

please don't hold it against me ;P

[u r a person 2]

Still missing my point but w/e. Why haven't you voted moony yet?

Partially because you want me too and that makes me think he may be town.

That's completely the opposite of what I said. I said every player regardless of weather they are town or scum will say they are town therefore the known scum rate is 2/9 not 2/8 because no one is going to bank you are town except you.

I've changed my mind since I said I would vote him earlier. Expressing a willingness to vote someone does not lock me into that.

knowing my alignment, this looks townie for yellow snow

it's an awkward non-vote and I think I would scum read it if I didn't know Moony was town.

But I do know that to be true, and I don't see a scum motivation for yellow snow here.

[u r a person 2]

stoking the fires of the mooney wagon is also a brave move as scum if that slot is town. overall he's doing his own thing and doesn't seem particularly concerned with how others are looking at him for it

@GL How brave do you really think it would have been of scum!GW? If you had a green check on me, would you give GW a strong town read?

[u r a person 2]

I really don't see moony getting confirmed town. My hope at this point is that he's replaced by a more engaged player.

I got you fam

[u r a person 2]

I have no idea who's Mafia or Townie. The only one I'm certain of is me, but I'm not telling...

lololol

okay i see how we might have gotten to this lynch after all

[u r a person 2]

for the record the posturing in 127 leading into the HARD TOWNREAD on a lurker slot in 162 is what's ringing my alarm bells. incidentally I think Nineja => GL interactions are more likely to be scum/scum than anything else I've spotted today.. The way he nullreads him and just... leaves him there is pinging

pedit: brass has the best-cut jib in the land.

I'm melding with the duck right here

[u r a person 2]

All I got in this world is my balls and my vote. And I don't break 'em for no one.

The unvote runs counter to the sentiment of this phrase, but resisting tw's attempt to get him to vote feels town overall

[u r a person 2]

did people not read 259? How was nineja not lynched? Duck slammed it home. I guess I'll find out

[u r a person 2]

TL:DR This will be a good post to come back to, depending on what nineja or tw turn out to be

I'm sorry if you've already done this, but did you ever go back to 259 after TW's flip?

[u r a person 2]

One could also say that you are defending your lurking scum buddy.

SCUMPOST ALERT

@Junko, do you townread Nineja?
I noticed your comment about "good non invasive logic" (sorry if i'm miswording here). do you think that's town indicative & could you talk me thru what about his posts you found towny?
sorry for overquestioning, i'm just not seeing it. i think it's one of those things where it's easy to see his long posts and go "wow he's playing the game" but the more i'm reading them the more i'm just...not seeing a town mindset there...

can we do the opposite? you tell me what screams scum about them? let me be the phicologist for once

TOWNPOST ALERT

I don't like either of these posts, mate. I hope you did make up your activity D2

[u r a person 2]

Is it possible that the doctor claim is a fake claim and there is a real doctor but they don't want to reveal themselves and get night killed?

oh, what's the claim gimme gimme so i know while i'm reading

[u r a person 2]

Spoiler:

I'm halfway through page 6 and I'm bored

I'll play tommorow again

Junk Nineja *
computerfan0 **
YyottaCat moonythedwarf **
GrandWazoo
YellowSnow JoeyG177
JunkoChan
GuiltyLion (SE) *
brassherald ceejayvinoya (SE) **
the worst (IC)

First guy is me - town
computerfan - good target to lynch
moony - town
GW - town
YellowSnow - town
JunkoChan - hmmm
GL - town
brassherald - I don't remember any of his posts, but now I do, he had a gnome avatar I think. His posts didn't give me any impression. Could that mean he's scum?
the_worst - i think scummy

You got some reads real quick, eh?

Really just posting this so I can find it again as I keep reading

[u r a person 2]

This reads like a homework assignment, you saw you had to find 7 townies and barely justify it, so that's what you did.

And you have read basically nothing from me, and you're attacking me?

No, this is a bad catch up, its either fake, or you really are deluded enough to think you can game solve day 1.

Yes, these are my thoughts as well.

[u r a person 2]

oh junk claimed doctor interesting

[u r a person 2]

There is nothing that says anyone has to be neutral and fair, and I might be grumpy most of the time, but I have no reason to be nice to someone who is coming in hot like this.

this pings me as townie

[u r a person 2]

alright then, have it your way. let's flip him and find out

VOTE: computerfan0

wtf was this turn around

[u r a person 2]

This is a pretty brave post to make as scum. Since they would know for sure I'm town. And they (Junko) seem like a newbie.

So yeah, Junko is almost certainly town, guys.

i agree with this

[u r a person 2]

This is a pretty brave post to make as scum. Since they would know for sure I'm town. And they (Junko) seem like a newbie.

So yeah, Junko is almost certainly town, guys.

i agree with this

well, except for the newbie part and the almost certainly part

but i do town read junko for this

[u r a person 2]

in newbie 1905 u r a person 2 weighed up the options & ended up agreeing with my advice to cop Yyotta night one. he guiltied her.

oh hey it's me

[u r a person 2]

773 assumes that Junk is trueclaiming. It seems to me that townjunk would be trying to make his case that he's not fakeclaiming rather than just expect everyone to just assume he is telling the truth when there is obviously a possibility of him fakeclaiming. The "they would know for sure I'm town." statement bothers me as a mistatement that town should not make and scum might want to bend the truth to scums advantage.

in the world where junk is the doctor, then scum would know that he is town. I don't follow your argument.

I can also live in the world where the uncc'd doctor is real while also knowing there is a chance the claim is fake.

[u r a person 2]

I'm a little confused by the setup. Does that mean there could potentially be two scum pr's four town prs and three vanillas?

@YS have you played in any completed newbie games?

[u r a person 2]

So we basicly got no power roles now, junk
is still unCC doctor and I see no reason to doubt that at this point

You see no reason to consider that it could be goon+goon vs cop?

[u r a person 2]

I've never played it before why would I not know it and how would lying benefit me?

okay I answered the question myself. You had completed two newbie games prior to making these posts. So did you never figure out the setup while playing those games?

[u r a person 2]

so why say that you never played this setup?

[u r a person 2]

But think about the likelihood of a) one scum targeting TW for the NK; b) town!Junk targeting TW for protection; and c) the other scum roleblocking town!Junk. This highly improbable scenario is exactly what he wants us to believe! Compare that to the likelihood of scum!Junk successfully FC (83.3%). And even if Junk is CC'd by the actual Doc, he probably thinks he can bury that claim in verbiage and hostility, as he has done to town all game.

I feel your paranoia

but is it really so low probability?

if junk is the doctor, then the rb for sure role blocks him

so then it's just a question of whether both scum and junk decide to target TW, and that doesn't seem too unlikely. 25-50% shot of happening considering the gamestate

[u r a person 2]

well, he claimed D1

and the presumption is usually that town won't lie about their role

so in this world from scum perspective, he was almost certainly doctor.
i
is this a continued dumbtell attempt? (i dislike that word. I'm not trying to call you dumb. I'm just wondering if you are faking these questions.)

[u r a person 2]

im all caught up. Going to digest it all right now and come back to this in a bit.

[u r a person 2]

I kinda want to post-by-post analyse why I am so confused anyone can read Moony right now but those analyses are really annoying and I think the most valid response would be, "ok"

@Junk what do you make of their unvote? How about the way Yyotta is prod-dodging through the game?

also VOTE: computerfan0

this must be a piece of my imagination

And I'm at L-1 now since you weren't voting me before

I am a Power Role

please fullclaim.

Town Doctor

[u r a person 2]

I don't think I'm feeling the Yellow Snow lynch today, boys and girls

[u r a person 2]

Hey GL, I think I'm voting you here, mate. Any particular reason why I should be town reading you?

VOTE: guilty lion

[u r a person 2]

that's fair. I take that to mean that you still think it would have been brave of scum!gw, but that other factors overshadow any weight that might have. Is that reasonable?

[u r a person 2]

Hey GL, I think I'm voting you here, mate. Any particular reason why I should be town reading you?

VOTE: guilty lion

I'm not scum, which is the most important reason.

I'm more interested in why you're townreading YellowSnow. What in his play says town to you? What's your response to my 307 or 634?

So I'm not actually seeing the contradiction that you're trying to emphasize in 634. I might be missing context (tell me if I am) but YS seems to be embracing the scum read by calling it scummy, no?

As to 307, I don't think what you bring up are outside of his town range. Have you breezed through 1906? You should.

I've also got a post that shows I think a decent town-indicative post from YS

and I buy his dumbtells (again, bad name) over the last few pages. Especially the one about where the claim came.

We can keep discussing this, and I want to! But I also want you to give me a real answer about why I should be town reading you.

[u r a person 2]

I'll look through 1906 but I really don't believe in using one game for meta. the worst said something similar, but if you haven't seen Yellow's scumgame then there's never a safe reason to assume this is his town game based on old town games.

I also don't buy the dumbtells. He posted at end of D1 responding to discussion about claims/PRs, that suggests to me that he did see the doc claim.

as for why you should be townreading me, I don't really believe in towncasing myself? It should be evident I'm not working with anyone and I'm trying to solve the game. If you're not able to see that and you have specific issues/questions about my play then I can try to show you, but you're also not really vocalizing why you think I'm scum so I don't have a starting point to work with.

I'm glad you'll look through it. Keep in mind that I'm not arguing that YS is town based on meta. I'm arguing that YS behavior that would be scum-indicative for your average player is not outside of YS's town range.

Could you point me to those posts about pr's and claims and what not? that's a big deal.

My scum read on you is mostly poe, which is why I wanted to just ask generally like that. That's fine, though. I respect not wanting to do self-meta.

[u r a person 2]

Guys, I don't want to be that guy but I'm going to be that guy because I want the style points later which I guess actually just makes me that guy.

Junk
GrandWazoo
YellowSnow
JunkoChan
GuiltyLion
brassherald

GrandWazoo - town for the entire early game. Frustrated with lurkers, highly active, no charisma or pocket attempts. This is town.

Yellow Snow - Town for that set of posts I discussed earlier where he declined to vote for my slot. Also all of the dum- let's call them uninformed-tells

JunkoChan - Overall towny game. Do I need to case this one out? I think Junko is pretty universally town read.

Brass Herald - Town for his entrance, which was obv-town. Asking questions, engaging TW, frustration at the state of the wagons when he entered.

Which leaves us Junk, who you guys all correctly scum read so well that his partner bussed him before the replacement

and who then fake claimed doctor, likely at the advice of his well experienced partner

Guilty lion who I think played pretty well. poe is a cruel mistress.


This is a posterity post. I know all of the reasoning is brief. Engage me in a discussion about whatever

[u r a person 2]

@TW I hope you're cheering me on in the dead thread, mate <3

[u r a person 2]

that last bit you quoted was an explanation for why scum would role block the doctor in the world where junk was actually the doctor. so it's scum team presuming in my quote, not town

[u r a person 2]

I don't like GL as scum, the more I think about it. I think he is correct, he's not working with anyone.

And, I guess a town cop and two goon setup is legit, in my inability to read simple charts I missed that cop can be alone. And, if there were two goons, doctor would be an even safer claim by someone who is clearly experienced. I think that my Junk lock town needs to be revoked because it's just not true.

talk to me about your GL town read? Could he not be with junk?

[u r a person 2]

but you first have to believe that scum townread both TW and Junk,

could you clarify this please

[u r a person 2]

Just to clarify, I'm scum reading Junk

But I'm still confused.

In the world where Junk is the doctor, don't you think scum believed his D1 doctor claim?

[u r a person 2]

because in the world that junk is the doctor, we're in the first setup column. Scum wouldn't have known if there was a cop or a jail keeper, so they wouldn't risk having the jailkeeper save the claimed doctor.

instead, they would roleblock and kill outside

GW is town here. especially if you believe junk's claim

[u r a person 2]

missclicked before editing, could you elaborate on this URAP2?

"GW is town here specially if you believe junk's claim"

I'm not buying scum!GW and his partner correctly reading the setup chart and making the correct nk and rb and then coming into the thread and forcefully and repeatedly arguing his recent position on junk even through others discussion of this very point.

I'm also not buying that scum!GW acts this way in relation to his partner scum!junk after having correctly made the fake claim.

So I wasn't thinking right when I said "especially if you believe junk's claim" because I just think GW is town here regardless.

[u r a person 2]

What is the case against GW again?

[u r a person 2]

Junko explicitly said doctor or another PR which was in response to Junk claiming doctor. and Yellow was present in the thread at the time

This would cause me, if I were YS, to examine the setup. I'm not sure that this in itself shows that YS understood the setup.

Regardless, I hope you're correct about scum!YS. I'd like you to be town.

Hey GL, what's the case on town junko from your perspective? That's the only slot I haven't gone back over at all since doing my catch up

[u r a person 2]

I really think YS flips town here

Tomorrow ya'll need a come to jesus - or your choice of religious or spiritual... things - moment about GL and Junk

Don't let em 3-0 you

[u r a person 2]

Yellow, if you're town you should re write all of your reads and the direction you would have us take D3 in your absence

[u r a person 2]

I hear you Junko, but he replaced in at L-1 so either

his partner could have already worked out the best claim strat for him and had it in scum chat waiting for the replacement

or

he could have worked out the best strat when he was entering the thread in case he couldn't get out of it.

He didn't have to think it up on the spot.

[u r a person 2]

I made a post with my poe earlier. I think his partner is GL.

It even makes that whole awkward vote by GL that junk shaded but then never brought up again make more sense.

[u r a person 2]

Yeah, I didn't come in here as scum to disrupt the wagon and scum read the most experienced player and the uncc'd doctor ;P

[u r a person 2]

you should vote GL with me. It's the only slot that I think makes sense with Junk, so it helps sort the doctor claim while still forcing scum to nk there if it is real and they ever want it gone (say, after a rb lynch)

[u r a person 2]

If we flip GL and he flips mafia goon (rather than mafia RB or town), then I would go into day 3 arguing to lynch junk

But I don't think we should pre script the lynches. There is value to playing out the day and seeing what develops

[u r a person 2]

yes flipping mafia rb would conf!town junk

[u r a person 2]

how much time do we have? give him a lot of it. If he's willing to engage, I'd still like to talk to GL for a bit pre lynch

[u r a person 2]

yeah we've got a couple days. 24 hours would be cool

[u r a person 2]

me, gw, junko l-1 4 to lynch with 7 alive

[u r a person 2]

it's a reminder to myself to treat people with respect regardless of how I read them. kind of a mantra so i wont be toxic

[u r a person 2]

how much time do we have? give him a lot of it. If he's willing to engage, I'd still like to talk to GL for a bit pre lynch

ofc I'm willing to engage, I'm here

I really don't know why we're not seeing eye to eye on Yellow. You seem to be scumreading me mostly because I'm the only person who makes sense with Junk. I would say that's stronger evidence for town!Junk than it is scum!me

I didn't mean to confuse you. I'm scum reading you both by poe. I think I've made that clear.

I'm not sure why we're not seeing eye to eye on YS. You said that you didn't believe his uninformed-tells because of the pr discussion, but I don't see why those comments require YS to understand the setup. All YS would have to know to understand that comment is that this game has PRs and doctor could be one. Further, I don't see scum!YS backing off of a moony vote early d1. I know this argument isn't super convincing for you because you don't know that I'm town, but it is for me.

So what's the scum!YS agenda? What has YS been working towards today and how does that fit into your world view regarding potential partners?

[u r a person 2]

how much time do we have? give him a lot of it. If he's willing to engage, I'd still like to talk to GL for a bit pre lynch

ofc I'm willing to engage, I'm here

I really don't know why we're not seeing eye to eye on Yellow. You seem to be scumreading me mostly because I'm the only person who makes sense with Junk. I would say that's stronger evidence for town!Junk than it is scum!me

This is the exact logic that is making me think it's YellowSnow

please clarify this for me, BH. I'm not sure that I follow

[u r a person 2]

lol brass, that one was funny even if I think you know what he meant

[u r a person 2]

I have more town equity than junk and I think almost anyone here that's not on my top 3 would agree. The failure of bh and gl to scumread junk just confirms my worldview.

That junk is scum with both myself and Guilty Lion and the setup is invalid because of that?

referring to this missed the new pages

[u r a person 2]

Basically my scum hunting strategy is to eliminate the people I think are town and look at the interactions and votes of the remaining scum candidates.

took me a couple of minutes to understand that "eliminate" did not mean "lynch"

[u r a person 2]

brass, why don't we take this from a different perspective, and see what we can agree on. I think you're pretty obv!town here, so that's good.

I'd also like to town bloc Junko and GW.

Do we disagree on any of that?

[u r a person 2]

yeah, i didn't mean for you to ;P

If we're in agreement on all of that
then we have 1 mislynch and 2 scum and a poe of 3

[u r a person 2]

so i guess from that perspective I'm good on any lynch in {Junk, GL, YS}

tbh i thought you were gonna disagree with me on the first post

[u r a person 2]

interesting. I hadn't really considered this.

i wish less of the game had been unaware of the setup. it makes figuring out who was being earnest more difficult

[u r a person 2]

if you're town, im sorry for your frustration.

if you flip town today, I'm probably coming into d3 pushing a YS lynch and apologizing to you in this thread

[u r a person 2]

Welp

I think this is the second game in a row you've convinced me to see a slot differently. I think I'm like 50/50 on whether it is GL/Junk or GW/YS. I don't think I'm buying YS/Junk

I continue to respect your game, GL

Intent to hammer YS

[u r a person 2]

you betcha buddy
VOTE: yellowsnow

[u r a person 2]

well

welcome back, junko

[u r a person 2]

GG Everyone!

Special compliments to Junko and GL!

@GW something to think about - given random reads, town has a dramatically higher chance of victory in final 3 if scum votes first. Obviously, you can't force scum to vote first, and deadlines are a thing.

But as either alignment it is good play to hold your vote if circumstances allow for it.

[u r a person 2]

Okay, so Junko did play very well, but there were indications were someone to have gone back and analyzed their play.

One, just off the top of my head - D2 when Yellow's wagon was stalling and I was pushing GL, Junko voiced support for GL, but declined to keep him at L-1 just in case. This would have been a great association to look at after GL flipped.

[u r a person 2]

Further, even if you're pretty sure someone is town, you can still go back and look over the other person's game to see if you can find how it's scummy.

BH's entrance, for instance, was very, very townie. Especially after a GL flip since part of that entrance was "blaming" gl for the late in the day rvs wagon.

I'm making a case off the top of my head without going back and doing the work, but I would be surprised if junko's game was so good and brassherald's so bad as to not allow a good scum hunter a fighting chance in F3 here

[u r a person 2]

I'll swing it this way: it's not your fault we lost. but if you'd turned around at the last moment and decided to give brass the benefit of the doubt, it could've been your fault SCUM lost!

yes, this 100% is what I was trying to convey. I hope my comments weren't seen as throwing you the blame. (I think you'll see where I put the blame if you look in the dead thread =P )

[u r a person 2]

AND FINALLY

Thank you for modding NSG!!
♪ ♬ ヾ(´︶`♡)ﾉ ♬ ♪

thanks everyone for making my first modded newbie game an interesting one! there were a few issues (replacements is the main one that comes to mind), but apart from that i'm glad i got to see a display of a town doing their best against some pretty impressive scum play!

Thanks NSG for an excellent game!