Newbie 1910: Aerial Photography [Game Over!]

[the worst]

VOTE: Nineja

not feeling a GrandWazoo lynch. i think he's exhibited some pretty towny traits which Nineja is lacking.

[brassherald]

VOTE: Nineja

not feeling a GrandWazoo lynch. i think he's exhibited some pretty towny traits which Nineja is lacking.

Town case GW for me, let's see if you can bring me around to it. I'm not seeing towny too much from him.

[the worst]

i actually think his continued push on yyotta is town indicative

could be reading too much into his play atm but i like the fact he's just unapologetically done his thing. gl + me + plenty of other people have reached out to him and the way he's reacted hasn't been like. scum agendaey at all. he's made no effort to appear artifically towny or pocket anyone, i get the feeling he was pushing yyotta's slot quite genuinely as well.

his responses wrt playstyle conflicts have been really strong too. like i've thrown a few curly questions at him and i liked the haste & conviction of what he threw back.

also fwiw i'm...not sure how you see me as a viable GW partner right now but i think yunko's reach-out was town indicative for her.

[YellowSnow]

Sorry it's been a busy week. I'm happy with my vote currently.

I see nineja as town, if only because there are other players that are scummier.

[GrandWazoo]

Pretty sure I've received more scrutiny, criticism, analysis and even psychoanalysis than all other players combined. And I've been completely transparent in my motives and actions. Just ask yourself: "Does scum ever act this way?" Maybe really stupid scum, but I don't think that describes my play this game. Snarky, aggressive, occasionally combative, definitely. But not stupid.

[YellowSnow]

if we can't lynch comp on his lack of interest how can we lynch anyone?

[the worst]

talk me through which players you're seeing as distinctly wolfier than Nineja and why/if you townread Nineja, Yellow?

[brassherald]

Look, from what I have seen, we can lynch about 5 of the players for lack of real interest, right now I would prefer to take a measured risk against people I have a chance to read correctly and have more NKA and associatives to work with on Day 2 than lynch people uninvolved just for the sake of their being uninvolved.

[YellowSnow]

GrandWazoo and Compufan0 is my current scum team.

[YellowSnow]

If we don't lynch the lurkers then that just encourages the other lurkers to continue to lurk.

[brassherald]

They'll be replaced if they lurk too much.

[YellowSnow]

Not willing to wait for that myself.

[northsidegal]

VC 1.08

votes

[3] GrandWazoo

:

computerfan0 87, JunkoChan 131, brassherald 223

[2] Nineja

:

the worst 195, GrandWazoo 216

[1] YyottaCat

:

GuiltyLion 18

[1] computerfan0

:

YellowSnow 160

[2] Not Voting

:

YyottaCat 82, Nineja 124

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

The Day 1 deadline is in

: (expired on 2019-01-07 04:02:59)

Mod Notes

: Prodding Nineja and GuiltyLion.
I have corrected errors in VC 1.07.

[the worst]

Look, from what I have seen, we can lynch about 5 of the players for lack of real interest, right now I would prefer to take a measured risk against people I have a chance to read correctly and have more NKA and associatives to work with on Day 2 than lynch people uninvolved just for the sake of their being uninvolved.

t h i s

over the last year if there's one thing i've learned about lynching day one:
if you make a "compromise lynch" day one, town is substantially less likely to win.
you gain no information from lynching someone due to low activity. the only real reason to lynch based on low activity, IMO, is if everyone who is posting seems to be town.

out of those posting i think {brass, junko} are the most widely townread. otherwise everyone is scumspected by someone.

we should definitely lynch based on scumreads today.

[the worst]

GL why are you still voting Yyotta out of RVS? I felt like you had like the starts of some pretty interesting insights when you were here.

[YellowSnow]

Lurking is a scumread for me. Saying there is nothing to go by when everyone else seems to be able to find things to go by is equally a scumread.

[the worst]

from like an "holistic meta" point of view (i.e. across the entire site), lurking/replacing out is not a reliable scumtell.
i think from an analysis of newbie games replace-outs are very slightly more likely to be scum but it's like..not a high enough number that it's worth going by. :<

do you think both scum are in the lurkers? (e.g. it's likely to be like, Yyotta/computerfan; you townread pretty much everyone who is active; etc.)
because if not i would very strongly encourage you to consider a more viable wagon on a player who is active, and poses a threat as scum. lurkers sort themselves out in later phases. :/

i think i spoke about the notion that "scum pushes low hanging fruit". this definitely includes lurkers. i don't think you fit into this category fwiw, but it's very common to see scum who are frozen and unable to make stronger reads hyperfocus on lurkers, or players who do things that can be considered annoying. keeping momentum on reading people who are actually in the game rather than focusing on lurkers is hugely beneficial.

i'm not... super? vexed because i don't all that strongly townread either of those slots. but i think there is scum in the people who are posting actively. i know it's instinctual to want to punish lurkers for not playing the game & remove the risk that they're just "coasting by" but this is a LOT easier to resolve later in the game when either:
1) they replace out; or
2) they continue to prod-dodge and display bad faith behaviour (it's hard to tell the difference between busy irl / warming up / lurking scum d1); or
3) they start playing the game

and most vitally: the town win condition is not "lynching lurkers", or removing annoying players. the town win condition is lynching scum.

[the worst]

sorry just a bit of a stream of consciousness thing.. i think there's definitely a #teachingmoment here, but i know it's a bit of a strange concept to tackle. let me know if you want to ask anything or talk through stuff.

[YellowSnow]

One could also say that you are defending your lurking scum buddy.

[JunkoChan]

Look, from what I have seen, we can lynch about 5 of the players for lack of real interest, right now I would prefer to take a measured risk against people I have a chance to read correctly and have more NKA and associatives to work with on Day 2 than lynch people uninvolved just for the sake of their being uninvolved.

t h i s

over the last year if there's one thing i've learned about lynching day one:
if you make a "compromise lynch" day one, town is substantially less likely to win.
you gain no information from lynching someone due to low activity. the only real reason to lynch based on low activity, IMO, is if everyone who is posting seems to be town.

I can agree with this train of thought, basicly what I was arguing against GW earlier, we can't base our lynch today on activity alone

I still don't see a good reason to vote nineja, but for that same reason I don't want to put him at L-1 here

p-edit @Yellow this is also true and will get more apparent if that's the case, but defending lurking scum buddies is a extremely risky move

[the worst]

One could also say that you are defending your lurking scum buddy.

Absolutely.
One could say you're scum with another active player.
One could say you're scum with Yyotta so you're pushing another lurker slot to get off you.

There are so so so many "possibilities" in mafia. one thing I don't do as either alignment in an IC position is misrepresent game theory; Junko's backed me up here and i think GL/brassherald will regardless of alignment as well.

[JunkoChan]

wait ninjea is not at L-2 mixed the votes with GW

[the worst]

@Junko, do you townread Nineja?
I noticed your comment about "good non invasive logic" (sorry if i'm miswording here). do you think that's town indicative & could you talk me thru what about his posts you found towny?
sorry for overquestioning, i'm just not seeing it. i think it's one of those things where it's easy to see his long posts and go "wow he's playing the game" but the more i'm reading them the more i'm just...not seeing a town mindset there...

[JunkoChan]

@Junko, do you townread Nineja?
I noticed your comment about "good non invasive logic" (sorry if i'm miswording here). do you think that's town indicative & could you talk me thru what about his posts you found towny?
sorry for overquestioning, i'm just not seeing it. i think it's one of those things where it's easy to see his long posts and go "wow he's playing the game" but the more i'm reading them the more i'm just...not seeing a town mindset there...

can we do the opposite? you tell me what screams scum about them? let me be the phicologist for once

[JunkoChan]

And yes I do townread him