Newbie 1915: Africa [Game Over!]

[MaryJoLisa2]

Hi.

[MaryJoLisa2]

Thank you, Skitter. Should we ask our questions in the game thread or would you prefer to get them by PM?

[MaryJoLisa2]

If you get killed early on, will you still be around to help out?

[MaryJoLisa2]

Okay, I think I understand. Thank you.

[MaryJoLisa2]

also it's nice to meet you i hope you enjoy your first game here

Pleasure to meet you and I'll be happy to return the favor.

VOTE: TTTT

[MaryJoLisa2]

What's "ai" mean?

[MaryJoLisa2]

I don't think it's okay to say that. Maybe it is. Honestly, I'm not sure. I'm also new, but i may have a better grasp of the game than you if this is your first game ever.

The objective is for all of us to claim to be Vanilla Town and work together find the scum. We start the process off by talking to each other and trying to get feels for who might be lying. By stating your alignment and role like that, you're indicating to me that you're either legitimately new and you really don't know how the game works, or you've got some experience under your belt and you're pretending to be new.

You might be using your apparent newness as a cover to conceal your scumminess. It's probably unwise at the very least because it draws people's attention your way.

[MaryJoLisa2]

VOTE: NotMySpamAccount

Yeah, if you get lynched for that slip you can always start in the next newbie game and not make that mistake again.

[MaryJoLisa2]

Yes. We're playing to win.

[MaryJoLisa2]

I think your username is funny. I think your post falls under the category of possibly scummy and I've got nothing on anyone else.

[MaryJoLisa2]

Elements appeared to me to be focused on the content of your post, not your name. Had your post not been suspicious, your name wouldn't have ever come up. If we were focused on each other's account information, I'd be leaning in on TTTT because that avatar is freaky as hell.

If you're really town, you'll need to build a convincing case as to why we should dismiss your apparent newbish mistake and account for why you didn't bother to read the rules before playing a game you've never played before.

[MaryJoLisa2]

Yes, I've been confused by calling them scum vs. mafia. We're playing a game called "Mafia" and the people we're trying to find are scum who are also mafia. It's weird. I think they're both.

Your explanation is panning out for me. I made a similar mistake the first time I played the game, so I'm willing to accept what you're saying now.

[MaryJoLisa2]

How do I remove my vote?

[MaryJoLisa2]

You might be using your apparent newness as a cover to conceal your scumminess. It's probably unwise at the very least because it draws people's attention your way.

Stop advising scum on how to play

But this is a newbie game.

[MaryJoLisa2]

UNVOTE: NotMySpamAccount

I said I'd unvote and I will. I'm not releasing NotMySpamAccount from my possible mafia list because it still might have been a first time scum player trying their hand at distancing themselves from their alignment.

TTTT will be my new best friend at some point in the future, so I refuse to accept that this person is untrustworthy. Yet.
Elements made a really valid call on NotMySpamAccount. Possibly because Elements is scum and needed to point their finger anywhere but at themselves.
Skitter may have been speaking as ic, but I felt I was fully justified in calling NotMySpamAccount out for a really scummy post. Defending a partner?

[MaryJoLisa2]

Hi all. Just caught up. Going to go ahead and VOTE: Elements.

Also, while I don't like NotMySpamAccount's opening post, both it and his response to the accusations read as town to me. Also, he's voting for scum, so that's good.

@TTTT thoughts on other players who have posted so far?

Why do you see Elements as scum?

Question for ic or game moderator: Is everyone here other than ic really a newbie to this forum? I read something about alt accounts.

[MaryJoLisa2]

Better wording:

the name thing isn't that important. It just gives the impression he has existed on forums before thus giving rise to suspicion he could have experience we don't know about. It's more incidental than anything else.

The name is indicative of prior experience, imo. If true he is trying to play dumb and therefore most likely scum

This is my concern. NMSA could be faking newness for personal amusement (people can be weird like that), or they could be newbie scum attempting to misdirect other newbies with a fake vt claim.

For now, I'm content to accept the explanation that they provided.

[MaryJoLisa2]

Possibly because Elements is scum and needed to point their finger anywhere but at themselves.

I don't really understand this. Are you saying i would've pointed my finger at myself if not for that post?

The order of events starts with you saying that you smelled an odor of scumminess on NMSA. Right? I think that's right.

It's not impossible that NMSA cut the cheese, but you dealt it. Meaning you might have pointed out that his post reeked of scumminess so none of us bother looking at you.

[MaryJoLisa2]

I'm probably over analysing this, but it seems like you are actively searching for reasons to call me scum

No, I'm not. Probably like you, I'm just attempting to shift the pieces into place and figure out who is who. I don't find you to be overly defensive and your accusation against NMSA was certainly a valid one.

[MaryJoLisa2]

I would be fine with getting rid of someone who isn't posting. It'll give us some practice if nothing else. I haven't seen anything from Tall1s. Maybe we'll hit paydirt.

VOTE: Tall1s

[MaryJoLisa2]

Replying to Skitter here: I read town on everyone with a slight (very slight) scum lean on you. Sorry.

Elements didn't actually say anything that I didn't say as well. We both saw NMSA's post as LAMIST. I just pointed it out to see if he would become defensive. He did not.

[MaryJoLisa2]

Elements didn't actually say anything that I didn't say as well. We both saw NMSA's post as LAMIST. I just pointed it out to see if he would become defensive. He did not.

Actually going back through, this looks about right.

Just to clarify, this was referring to the "we used the same arguments" thing. By "he" here do you mean me or Elements?

I didn't find Elements to be defensive. Your post was LAMIST fair and square and Elements called you on it. So did I. And TTTT too, IIRC.

[MaryJoLisa2]

If you were basing your reads on that, then yes. IMHO, anyway.

[MaryJoLisa2]

I mean humble when I say it.

[MaryJoLisa2]

Salami, this is your second game ever, or this is your second game on this forum?

[MaryJoLisa2]

Salami, this is your second game ever, or this is your second game on this forum?

Second for both

In your past game, 1911, you entered as a replacement mid-game. You're saying that 1911 was your first game ever yet you entered with a very good grasp of the terms and a firm understanding of what's going on and what's expected of you. You came into this game and very confidently declared your reads very shortly after you made your entrance. These are not the behaviors of a newbie. I don't think you're being honest with us.

You may be right about Elements, but I think we should sort him out after we get you sorted out.

VOTE: Salami

[MaryJoLisa2]

This is my first game on this site, but my fourth game ever. All were played on a forum rather than IRL, so I'm a little more familiar with the format and some of the lingo.

[MaryJoLisa2]

I can't know with any certainty that you're being "100% honest" and that you have nothing to hide. This is a game where scum tell lies. What I do know is that in your first game, you appeared to be very comfortable with using jargon and game moves that should have been new and unfamiliar to you. Your grasp of the game and your level of confidence seems to exceed considerably what I would expect from any Newbie, even one who has thoroughly read through the rules and possibly other games. People who are new to something are generally self-conscious, cautious, and looking to others for cues on how to act.

Element may be scum. I can't rule that out. but I think you're being dishonest and that makes you suspect.

[MaryJoLisa2]

The only may anyone can 100% know who the scum are on day if if they themselves are scum

Precisely. This is a newbie game. Salami is either an experienced player pretending to be a newbie (lynch all liars) https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... _All_Liars, or he's an over-confident, inexperienced player. If the latter is true we should not be swayed by his untrained eye no matter how confident he appears.

Something doesn't feel right with Salami and I'm willing to put off suspicion on Elements until we get Salami figured out. If he's town, he'll leave a nice detailed explanation behind to tell us why we should lynch Elements next.

[MaryJoLisa2]

Why?

[MaryJoLisa2]

BBmolla is probably not scum.

[MaryJoLisa2]

Oh wait. BBmolla might be scum if Salami is his scum partner.

[MaryJoLisa2]

Salami wagon is garbage

why is is garbage?

From the outside looking in, someone may reasonably see me as protecting Elements.

[MaryJoLisa2]

From the outside looking in, someone may reasonably see me as protecting Elements.

I thought you had a scum lean on me?

I definitely don't have a solid town read on you, Elements, but I also don't have a scum read. I meant to reevaluate you in light of Salami's flip. I have a slight scum read on Skitters and a scum read on Salami.

If BBmolla and Salami are scum partners, then that would explain why he'd break up a wagon on his partner. Otherwise, he's scum-hunting, and that's exactly what he should be doing. If he's scum and Salami is not, then it wouldn't make sense to break up a wagon on someone he knows is town. Why mess up a nice mislynch like that?

[MaryJoLisa2]

We're new here, BBmolla. We're still learning the game.

[MaryJoLisa2]

I believe the lynch occurs when 5 players vote for the same person, up until 10 days. After 10 days, majority rules.

[MaryJoLisa2]

You're misreading me. That's not what I'm saying.

Look at it from the perspective that Salami is scum (which we do not know). IF Salami is scum and BBmolla is his scum partner, then we will be able to see in retrospect (after the game) that BBmolla was removing the wagon from his scum partner. If Salami is town and BBmolla is scum, then BBmolla's effort to move the wagon off Salami doesn't make sense because he had an easy mislynch all lined up for himself when he logged in.

If we were to lynch Salami and Salami flipped scum, then we might reasonably look to BBmolla who moved the wagon off Salami, but that still doesn't mean that BBmolla is scum. He might have just been town trying to latch onto what would be for him a more logical target.

If you decide to lynch me and I flip green (and I will), then I would start looking much more carefully at Salami and BBmolla. Salami for the reasons I stated in previous posts (his play doesn't seem newbish), and BBmolla for possibly (but not certainly) protecting a scum partner.

[MaryJoLisa2]

I believe the lynch occurs when 5 players vote for the same person, up until 10 days. After 10 days, majority rules.

after 10 days, no lynch.
It is much more beneficial for town to keep the day going for as long as sensibly possible so there are lots of interactions to analyse and longer for scum to slip up

I think we should keep talking until Tall1s is replaced and then do a lynch. Even if it's a mislynch, we'll have gathered some useful evidence to work with.

[MaryJoLisa2]

I think even if there's a mislynch, the remaining scum member performs a nightkill.

Yes, but the information we gather will all be based on hunches. I'm not really sure what the best course of action is.

[MaryJoLisa2]

[quote="In
@MaryJo could you answer this please?

viewtopic.php?p=10696771#p10696771

Basically, I just thought Elements made a perfectly justified accusation of LAMISTness from NMSA and I was surprised that Skitter didn't see it that way. My lean on her is very slight and as I look through the posts, I wonder if she wasn't just being a good ic and trying to bail a newbie out.

[MaryJoLisa2]

I think even if there's a mislynch, the remaining scum member performs a nightkill.

Lynching scum is not a mislynch

Yes, you're right. My error.

[MaryJoLisa2]

I think even if there's a mislynch, the remaining scum member performs a nightkill.

Yes, but the information we gather will all be based on hunches. I'm not really sure what the best course of action is.

Your logic is all over the place and makes no sense

I just don't feel that we have enough information to work with. A lynch (any lynch) would start to provide some context for what we've been saying and the cases we've been trying to build.

[MaryJoLisa2]

Why do you scum read both me and Salami?

[MaryJoLisa2]

Why do you scum read both me and Salami?

did you read my small spiel?

I did, it just didn't add up to me. If I'm scum and Salami is also scum, then why would he vote to lynch me? Why would he come in, "lay down the law" only to find that his scum partner was giving him a hard time?

It doesn't necessarily have to be me or him, I just don't see why it's me

and

him.

[MaryJoLisa2]

Northsidegal, why are you creating empty posts?

[MaryJoLisa2]

I think even if there's a mislynch, the remaining scum member performs a nightkill.

Yes, but the information we gather will all be based on hunches. I'm not really sure what the best course of action is.

Your logic is all over the place and makes no sense

I just don't feel that we have enough information to work with. A lynch (any lynch) would start to provide some context for what we've been saying and the cases we've been trying to build.

That's wrong though, while a lynch is usually preferable to no lynch for town they can be very harmful if chosen unwisely, we can't just pick

any

lynch. We have to figure out which is the scum

Is this in the wiki or something? I don't know why you think this. If this is your second game ever, you should be feeling the game out like the rest of us. And if this is actually your second game ever and you're that intuitive and confident in your moves and those moves are correct, then you probably shouldn't be in a newbie game.

[MaryJoLisa2]

I think even if there's a mislynch, the remaining scum member performs a nightkill.

Yes, but the information we gather will all be based on hunches. I'm not really sure what the best course of action is.

Hold on, a mislynch means that both scum remain. I think we've got someone.

Correct. I said the wrong thing. I had changed the meaning of my sentence and didn't catch that my sentence didn't add up anymore.

[MaryJoLisa2]

You arn't voting your scumread though?

My vote would put them at L1. I don't want someone to lol hammer and end the day early

You can put me at L-1. It's just a game. When I'm lynched, you'll learn more information.

[MaryJoLisa2]

I'm just saying, it's cool if you vote to lynch me. I'll just go play another game and I'll have a little more experience under my belt.

When I go, start examining Salami and if Salami starts coming up rotten, then also look to BBmolla. If Salami is clean, BBmolla may also be clean. By then, you'll have more information to go on.

[MaryJoLisa2]

I'm just saying, it's cool if you vote to lynch me. I'll just go play another game and I'll have a little more experience under my belt.

Have you legitimately given up?

It's my way of playing to my wincon. Day 1 lynches are based entirely on intuition, and then people get to see how their intuition panned out (or didn't pan out). If we drag this out 7-10 days, we'll talk ourselves into circles. Someone's gotta get the ball rolling here and if you want to vote for me, then that's perfectly fine.

[MaryJoLisa2]

It's not that I'm eager. It's just that I'm willing. I'm leaning toward Salami, of course, though in fairness, he's doing scum hunting.

Scum members may be lying low and letting town take each other out. Salami is active at least.

[MaryJoLisa2]

could you do a small rundown on everyone a bit like i did?

Here it is as of now:

1. MaryJoLisa2 – I’m town.
2. Elements – Town
3. NotMySpamAccount – Town
4. TTTT (SE) – He’s not trying to confuse anything. He has concerns and he’s trying to give his reasoning for things.
5. Salami – I need to see more, but I can see both scum and town with him. He’s at least active and searching, so that’s going to push me over into a slight town lean.
6. Skitter – Not enough to go on.
7. Tall1s – Nothing to go on.
8. Cbynumber – Laying low, seems kinda scummy to me.
9. BBmolla (SE) – Scum lean. No actual scum hunting and limited interactions with everyone else. The salami wagon was garbage comment in #161 with no follow-up doesn’t sit well with me.

[MaryJoLisa2]

I read her very slight scum. I'm not prepared to say that her actions weren't for the sake of being a good ic.

[MaryJoLisa2]

What's rn? It's not in the list of abbreviations.

[MaryJoLisa2]

thank you.

[MaryJoLisa2]

I'm just saying, it's cool if you vote to lynch me. I'll just go play another game and I'll have a little more experience under my belt.

Have you legitimately given up?

It's my way of playing to my wincon. Day 1 lynches are based entirely on intuition, and then people get to see how their intuition panned out (or didn't pan out). If we drag this out 7-10 days, we'll talk ourselves into circles. Someone's gotta get the ball rolling here and if you want to vote for me, then that's perfectly fine.

Limiting the information town has access to only plays to a mafia wincon. Giving up plays to neither.

could you do a small rundown on everyone a bit like i did?

5. Salami – I need to see more, but I can see both scum and town with him. He’s at least active and searching, so that’s going to push me over into a slight town lean.

I'm just saying, it's cool if you vote to lynch me. I'll just go play another game and I'll have a little more experience under my belt.

When I go, start examining Salami and if Salami starts coming up rotten, then also look to BBmolla. If Salami is clean, BBmolla may also be clean. By then, you'll have more information to go on.

You list scumreads yet advocate examining Salami, who is a townread of yours (who you are still voting for?)

6. Skitter – Not enough to go on.

This is also at odds with what you've said throughout the game.

I won't be very active today unless I get my work done earlier than I expect.

My intuition is that Salami is scum, but my evidence is lacking and the more I consider it, the better a case I can make for him being town. I am not someone who hits the scene, makes declarations, and expects people to follow. We have no starting point so the best I can do is throw ideas out there and hope something resonates with someone else. Maybe they see something I don't see and they'll be able to make a compelling argument to sway me.

My way may not be your way, but that's what the newbie game if for. It's for people like me to try their hand in a relatively safe environment and see what works and what doesn't. Since we can't tie any player comments to actual evidence (lynch results or mod confirmed alignments), my goal is to get town talking and try to examine things from different possible perspectives. If that is more confusing than it is helpful, then there are worse people to lynch.

[MaryJoLisa2]

VOTE: Salami
I'll have more to say later

Interested in the follow up to this.

Me too; ngl i think this is one of the worst posts in the game

Skitter, you use a lot of abbreviations and you don't explain them in context. ngl is not in the abbreviations list. Is there a more expanded abbreviations list? I can't tell what's an abbreviation that is just normal lingo like tbh and imo (stuff I think I should know), vs game lingo like ic, ai, rn, and now ngl.

[MaryJoLisa2]

I can see why you might think that. It makes me wonder if you're not latching onto something that you know isn't there.

IIRC, BBmolla started this whole thing of turning the wagon onto me by saying that my call on Salami was garbage. I didn't notice a decent explanation. When my flip is revealed, I hope town turns their gaze to those who were working to lynch me and evaluate whether their reasons were good or not.

[MaryJoLisa2]

VOTE: Skitter30 I'll try to explain after I've had some sleep.

[MaryJoLisa2]

MaryJo if you are town
and I think you prob are
can you stop acting scummy plz
thx

TTTT,

You literally pulled this exact same thing here in post 155. You modeled that to me.

No. I very probably cannot stop doing things that are perceived as scummy because too many people have already developed tunnel vision. I think these day phases are so long that they're destructive to town and give scum an advantage by allowing them to work in tandem behind the scenes creating havoc and confusion.

A few of you (Elements comes to mind) talked me out of this mindset a few days ago, but I'm returning to it. The phase is too long and town is spinning their wheels with no solid information. Many people are leaning in my direction and that's fine. My flip will provide some much needed context for the POV I've been trying to convey and will help town analyze what my train of thought over the last few days and they'll be able to better see the scum by how they interacted with wagons.

I'll give my reads later on.

[MaryJoLisa2]

Spam, I do have other RL obligations that take precedence, but I'll be writing up my thoughts soon.

[MaryJoLisa2]

Anyone else noticed how MJL's vote has been following mine all game?

Our vote record is as follows:

#5 Elements votes Salami
#16 MJL votes TTTT
#30 Elements votes Spam
#33 MJL votes Spam
#71 MJL unvotes
#92 MJL votes Tall1s
#135 MJL votes Salami
#144 Elements votes Salami
#263 Elements votes Skitter.
#289 MJL votes Skitter.

[MaryJoLisa2]

It's such a blasé reaction, almost to a point of not caring about the game. I rlly don't know what to make of it

I'm legitimately starting to have some difficulty with the length of the day phase and the inability to make progress. I'd like my side to win, but as I said in a previous post, we're going nowhere and scum is actively collaborating against us and gathering information on our weaknesses. We're just spinning our wheels and feeding info to scum. Scum has a higher chance of hitting a more valuable target during the nightkill with each post that is made. Elements, I'm not sure why you think we should continue on this path of dragging the day phase out.

I think our best chance to win is to take the hit and let town reevaluate the past conversations in light of the new information that will come from the lynch and night kill.

[MaryJoLisa2]

I thought i voted salmi first, but apparently not. I was going off you following my on Spam then salami and now skitter. without salami it doesn't have as much traction

You should double check it. I think I got it right, though.