Newbie 621 (Game Over!)

[zeal]

I confirm =)

[zeal]

Vote: Mirth

If its random votes you're after then:

Vote: Battousai

You can't really expect me to remember how to spell that all game? =p

Tags fixed. - Mod

[zeal]

Urgh.. My coding fails. Can someone tell me how to bold stuff on this forum?

[zeal]

As I see it, there's very little evidence, maybe TSQ has picked up on some little thing that I haven't?

You mean before I even posted anything? What are you suggesting he picked up on? Thin air?

Kristopf, why do you think he has any reason to believe I'm scum yet? Also all *she's* done is cast an "OMGUS" vote *after* TSQ's vote and harassed some of the newbies a little.

Why so eager to start a wagon on TSQ?

Like you said, it's page 2m and yet you're already casting a second vote.

Malex, what do you mean by accusation?Why do you think we'd react badly to your "random" vote? You're the only one who brings it up.

Is it just me, or does it seem like TSQ is telling everyone to vote Mirth without any *known* reason, while Mirth is trying to stop us from voting TSQ...

Let's say that they're both mafia, then maybe they decided to move suspicion away from each other by voting for themselves, but it went slightly wrong and now Mirth is trying to stop TSQ getting lynched?

[zeal]

Um.. What does specious mean? >.<

And also, any reasoning is better than none. I've seen that tactic used before in a game I played on another forum, and I don't want to overlook anything. I'm not going to back it up with a vote though, as I know its only a slight possibility.

Oh and

Unvote: Battousai

[zeal]

OMGUS

FOS: Malex McJokeus

=p

Thanks for explaining that TSQ, but I still can't see how your vote for Mirth wasn't random, unless we have some special game mechanic where our cop can investigate pre-game (Which I doubt, considering this is a newbie game)

[zeal]

Zeal, why your unvote?

Random votes are just to get discussions started (As far as I can tell) and since we've done that, I don't see the point of keeping them up after they've served their purpose.

No, I wouldn't have, if you'd known me.. I'm too lazy and that isn't so interesting ^^. My concentration isn't enough to read all the posts. And going back few pages would bring up long post full of quotes and that wouldn't help you a bit. I wouldn't be too much help either way. Even if I have played mafia many times, I haven't been much help because I'm too lazy and I enjoy these games too much to be serious.

Umm.. Its kinda important you read the whole thing, even if you don't reply to any of it. If it gets to a lynch or lose position, you're going to want to know about everything that's happened.

[zeal]

I was looking back through the thread before going to sleep and thought it may be worth posting TSQ zeal and Nahraza haven't posted since the 4th, and there has been plenty to talk about, including questions directed to TSQ.

Sorry I haven't been active over the last few days, I've been finishing off a portfolio on Ancient Egypt for school. Its all done now, so I should have more time to post.

We have already gone though you asking us to explain your thought process once before. I for one would just like to hear your reasoning. I realize that you are keeping your decisions close to the vest and as an IC you are trying to get us to think, but could you please explain your reasoning instead of having others do it for you only to be told they are wrong? Please?

I think its good that Mirth tries to get us to think, as long as she tells us her reasoning if we can't work it out. (As in not being like Status and keeping it to herself)

No one really stands out as suspicious to me yet, but I wouldn't expect them to this early in the game.

[zeal]

Status, now that you're back, could you please answer the questions directed at you by Malex in post 87?

[zeal]

I wonder... If my defensive posts where I answer to your questions have nothing to do with the actual game, why on earth do you want me to speak and answer to you? Or why then I bother writing posts full of answers.

Nothing to do with the game aside from defending yourself, as in you've only told us that you're not scum, without saying much about anyone else.

Merc: Why would someone who isn't scum want to distract the town? Most of the time, distracting the town is unintentional. If he's town then I just pointed it out to get him to stop.

I can't really see how telling us to lynch someone without having any apparent reason can be unintentionally distracting the town.

[zeal]

Well if you think having him at L-1 will help, then

Vote: Thestatusquo

Quite frankly, I think we really do need his response to get the game going again.

[zeal]

Why not? If someone puts a final vote on him we'll be able to tell that they're scum immediately.

[zeal]

I see your point, but smart scum could use that to their advantage, using the argument no scum would be foolish enough to do that.

I don't expect anyone in our game would have him lynched because they're impatient, except maybe Nahraza. However, I don't want him killed before he explains himself so just incase:

Unvote: Thestatusquo

I'd also like to hear what Battousai thinks of your reasoning. His approaches seem a little different from yours, and I'd like to see as broad a scope of playing styles and tactics as I can in my first game on this forum.

[zeal]

If you had to pick someone to lynch now, who would you pick and why.

If it was right now, without any more information at all then:

Firstly Status, because he hasn't really tried to help us out very much, and is lurking.

And secondly Nahraza, because he told us himself that he doesn't find the game all that interesting, and probably won't read the pages he's missed since he last posted.

I don't see any evidence saying that TSQ isn't actual scum but what hes given us isn't evidence either way except that he refuses to be cooperative, which would be pro town

How is refusing to be cooperative pro town?

However, by the same token I then have to look at Zeal next because he did a similar thing voting and then unvoting after Mirth voted for him. Switching back and forth so quickly just seems sketchy to me. It is as if Zeal was nervous to attract a vote.

Mirth's vote had nothing to do with my unvoting, it was her reasoning in post 176. I really do want Status to give us an explanation of his posting, but I don't want him dead before he gets the chance to give it. Also I'm a she. And a her >=[

[zeal]

TSQ would have been first. Second I'd lean towards Gremwell. Batto is also on the radar, but a lynch on TSQ would give me a better idea on that.

I'm assuming you mean that if Status isn't scum then there's a higher chance that Battousai is?

My apologies Zeal, I forgot to look at your symbol of Venus.

That's fine, I expect I might get mixed up too considering my avatar has a moustache.

Now I finally remember to mention you, that it's not "he" .

Irony >.<

[zeal]

Zeal, refusing to cooperate is not protown, but simply not playing is not a scumtell. Though if he keeps posting in GD but not here, I'll have no issue with lynching him.

Maybe we can ask mith to

super-cattle-prod

him =p

I meant that Being cooperative and answering our questions could be seen as a pro town move but its been what 5 days I think?

Oh sorry, I read that wrong.

[zeal]

(Why didn't anyone call on me to answer my own question?)

I personally assumed you were waiting for our answers to base your own on.

And while I guess I am currently a prime suspect no doubt that would draw some scum to set themselves up on this last question for a quick D2, obviously not everyone FOSing me can be scum being only 2 in the game but I think a good look at Malex wouldn't hurt

Why just Malex? What makes him different from the others that are suspicious of you?

That's because 203 was posted at 4am my local time.

You stoled my time zone

[zeal]

Sheepiness is baaaaad ^_^

Why must you hurt me in this way?


Just noticed Kristopf hasn't posted since Friday, can we get a prod on him?

[zeal]

Now we'll never get to hear Status' explanation... But still, instead we have an active (and aggressive) replacement

Zeal: Post 44 where does he get that Mirth was trying to stop votes against TSQ? Post 48 what? This post just confused me. Post 82 still no votes and no suspicions to be found. Page 6 and still no opinion. Post 173 going alone with Battousi's idea on L-1 with no question.

She!

Bah! Anyway, here are your answers.

The bolded part of the qoute in post 44 shows where I got that Mirth was tring to stop votes on Status. Although its weak, as I said in post 48, I don't want to fall for the same trick twice.

The reason I put an L-1 vote on Status was because at that stage we really did need to get the discussion flowing again, and everyone was waiting on his explanation. I hadn't considered him actually getting lynched until Mirth gave me her reasoning in post 176.

Zeal has pinged my scumdar for her lack of participation and votes thus far. Very under the radar type person. Plus when she does place a vote it is to put a person at L-1 based on battousai say so.

I don't see the need to place votes unless they are for a reason, it's easier to just explain my suspicions to everyone. Once I find someone I'm

certain

is scum, or is acting in a way that doesn't benefit us at all, that's when I'll vote for them.

As for post 50, where I FOS Zeal and Kristopf, if you could not see that was a joke, then I don't know what to tell you.

QFT.

[zeal]

Also in regards to this comment. If you believe in not voting someone unless you are certain they are scum why would you blindly follow Battousi?
Sorry about the "he" comment.

Apology accepted, and:

Once I find someone I'm certain is scum,

or is acting in a way that doesn't benefit us at all,

that's when I'll vote for them.

Status fell into the second category.

[zeal]

Replacing TSQ? I would not want to replace a person who at one point was L-1. Then again, as a sign of good faith to farside22, Unvote. I only ask in return that you post something of substance. If you read the game to this point you will see that you are replacing someone that has done much to annoy the town, by not doing much at all. So post your thoughts on the game and provided it makes some sense and has logic and I will be satisfied.

The above post seems superficial. I do not like it.

I don't see anything wrong with it, apart from the bit that says "you are replacing someone that has done much to annoy

the town

" because it would make more sense to say "you are replacing someone that has done much to annoy

us

"

I expect that I'm just being paranoid again, but that's how I would write it.

Zeal: nvm just read your answer...do you think its better to get rid of someone whos not helpful than to look for someone actually hurting town?

I classify these as the same thing. Not being helpful

does

hurt the town.

Don't be nice to anyone. Ever.

You smell bad. There, happy now?

[zeal]

so far I don't think the scum have made enough mistakes to be seen as obv scum, so I'm going with my gut here. Seemed eager to appease mirth (with the voting/ unvoting of TSQ), plus he didn't enter the game very "gracefully."

I can agree with the first part of this, but just wondering, how does the fact he didn't enter gracefully make him seem more like scum? I would take this to be more of a newbie mistake myself.

This is craplogic. One vote is not a wagon, and piling on a second to someone who Batto has said before is on the top of his suspicion list when being faced with deadline isn't really telling of alignment either way.

While what you say is true,

you

have just turned it into a wagon

What does everyone else think? Do you feel like the thread was leaning towards lynching anyone, if so who?

I think we need to be careful, and put everyone under as much scrutiny as we can before the deadline. I don't really believe we've leant towards actually lynching anyone yet, most of the votes have been to spark discussion and put pressure on people.

Also, I'm going on Band Camp tomorrow. I will try and get at least one more post in tomorrow at school, or tonight, but if I don't then I'll be back Thursday evening. So, any questions you have for me need to be asked as soon as possible.

[zeal]

I'm back

So you're sure about lynching Grem? What are your thoughts on Nahraza, Merc, and Malex?

Just wondering, why was I the only one you left out?

I must say I appreciate the percentages, but that said I find 92% laughable

I agree with this, but to a lesser extent. I would currently give Grem about a 60 percent chance of being scum. I will vote for him if he either reaches 100 percent or if we have no other leads by the day before we reach the deadline.

[zeal]

I'm thinking one of them is most likely scum, and I'm not so sure anymore it's Grem

What was it that changed your mind on this?

My reason still stems from the very start of this game and I haven't seen anything that invalidates this suspicion.

I can't really see anything that validates it either - Your main reason seems to be that you don't like her scum hunting tactics.

[quote="Gremwell]
Battousai, nothing on farside or mirth?
[/quote]

Batto's summaries are from page six, at which point Farside had not entered the game and we had a lurking TSQ instead. I would like to know why Mirth was missed out though.

[zeal]

On the plus side, I beat City Hall and The Man

So you're anti-town then? =p

Then defends himself by saying he could just be paranoid.

I'm a

her.

Just an interesting fact. Mega is posting in other threads (GD) since his last post but has yet to respond to me here. I'm normally not a fan of meta, but I would much rather prefer a Mega lynch at this point, and this strengthens that a tad.

How does this makes him seem more scummy?

Tomorrow I'll decide whether to vote for either Grem or Mega, as it seems like its definitely going to be one of them, but I'll need some time to think it over first. I feel as though its starting to lean towards Mega.

[zeal]

I've skimmed through the whole thread again in a quick reread, and I have to say Nahraza/Mega is definitely my prime candidate for a deadline lynch. Their reasoning has been flimsy the whole time, and Mega's last vote stands out far more than any of Grem's posting so far. So with that:

Vote: Nahraza

[zeal]

EBWOP:

Wrong name >.<

Vote: Megamieuwsel

[zeal]

Zeal: Give me a break, I called you a her for most of my anaylsis

I'll try and remember to return the favour and call you a her later.

Post more cat pictures?

Such as these? http://www.roflcat.com/

I don't think farside22 would be the best lynch, he's just on the list of people I would lynch at this stage.

Who else is on your list, and why?

[zeal]

Mirth, I don't really understand the reasoning behind your vote on merc, could you explain for me?

Also we've skipped right past the two vital pieces of information we've just been given and gone straight onto another subject.

I'm kinda suspicious of Mirth, because as merc pointed out, she's not dead. She's been leading the game so far, and I had assumed she would be the nightkill target. Seems to me like she tried to draw attention away from this with her voting of Batto/merc.

Just a bit of warning,

I will be V/LA for 11 days from the 25th of July.

[zeal]

I want a reaction from him so that when I post my reason, he won't be able to switch his reaction based on it. (I can guarantee you that he *won't* guess it.) I don't care if he gets replaced. I want a reaction to me still being alive/voting Batto off the bat, even if it comes from a replacement.

It seems to me like you are just setting a trap. I have a feeling that this will change Kristopf's response from what it would usually be.

This gives me the upper hand until I throw the rest of my cards on the table, which I will do.

The question is, do we want you with the upper hand?

[zeal]

I think that Mirth is refering to why Farside was killed over me and her. If I was newb scum I would have killed Mirth first, unless she was my partner

Perhaps they were wary of the possibility of a doctor?

[zeal]

I'm going to believe you, because I don't think you're stupid enough to lie about it.

Quite frankly I think claiming was a bad idea. The scum don't know if they block a power role, so there's a chance they would've blocked someone else tonight.

I can agree with you about Batto, but I'm not entirely sure on Merc. From yesterday's posts, it doesn't seem like Grem could be Batto's partner, so that leaves us with Malex or kristopf. Right now I would rather support a Batto lynch, so

Vote: Battousai

. I'm convinced.

I expect you will be killed tonight Mirth, so I'd like to ask you now, what do you think our best course of action is if Batto/merc isn't scum?

[zeal]

I believe you easily because I really don't think you would lie about this, its too easy to get caught.

We have one player missing, yes, but I'm assuming they'll be replaced some time today or tomorrow, so I don't think that matters so much.

Also, why put out your theories if you don't want people to agree with them..?

[zeal]

Ok, you believe the claim. But you are under the assumption that ALL of Mirth's suspects are scum. Not only is that bad town play if your town, but bad scum play as you were easily outed as following along. Why couldn't Malex and Kristopf be scum partners, hell why can't me and Grem be scum partners?

No, I'm assuming that you are the only one of Mirth's suspects that are scum. I can't see why you weren't targeted last night. I don't think you and Grem were bussing each other, it was too serious for that. I don't see you taking the risk of one of you being wagonned.

Also, it may be "easy" for Mirth to get caught, but it could cost the town at least another mislynch and possibly a third.

How could it cause a third?

Both of these have been nullified, as the cop is dead, and I am going to be targeted again with either a roleblock or a kill, as the scum clearly want me out of the way, if they thought enough to roleblock me to roleblock me the first night even if it was blind.

That still doesn't mean they would have roleblocked you again tonight.

Just wondering, what does the extra S in SFoS mean?

[zeal]

Let's see, there could be a chance Mirth is scum (thus I would have been roleblocked and then Farside killed. Or it could be the fact that NONE of the IC's were scum, thus they could only effect 2 of the 3 of us.

I think the chance of Mirth being scum is lower than the chance of her being the doc.

Also, I bolded a part of your quote. Are you saying you are only considering Mirth's scum list and not going by your own?

No, I'm saying that if Mirth's claim is truthful, which I currently believe it is, then I would assume you are one of the scum. The other I am not sure of. I think Mirth is overreacting towards Merc.

[zeal]

No, its because it would make more sense to target you. I would assume that the strategy of killing of ICs is used in most newbie games, since they're the biggest threat as townies. If you are town, you have helped us search more than farside did, so why kill her over you?

[zeal]

Zeal, I realize this is pure WIFOM, do you?

If by that you mean "that's what they want me to think", then I know it's a possibility.

Grem: Votes mega to save his own behind

This doesn't raise his suspiciousness at all, any player would do so, regardless of their alignment.

Zeal: With 35 hrs to go, votes Mega

I knew I wouldn't be around any closer to the deadline, so I voted then. I expect the alternative would have been a no lynch.

You have been a member for over six months and you don't know the format of the game? Again this next post shows my point.

I think what Batto meant is that the only way they could be sure that we have a power role is if they don't have a roleblocker, otherwise we could have been in a mountainous game.

Mirth, what do the numbers next to your reasoning on Merc represent?

[zeal]

Sorry about my lack of activity this week, I've been extremely busy getting ready to go to Japan in two days. I'll be there until August the 4th,

replace me if necessary mith.

Hey Zeal, you've been quiet for a bit. What do you think of the current Batto/Malex interaction?

I think that Batto's FoSes weren't really needed, just pointing out the things he found suspicious about everyone would have done, but I guess he just likes having something to back him up. Malex is probably reading too far into it.

[zeal]

Hi everyone, I'm back from Japan. I'm extremely tired and jetlagged right now so I'll do a read through tomorrow and post my thoughts.

[zeal]

I am also going to infer that whomever decided to kill Mirth was worried that Mirth was on to something in one of her posts. So I am looking at Merc and Zeal (post 631.) Since Merc was in on the Clockwork lynch, that leaves me looking at you Zeal. Not enough for a vote, it is just circumstantial, but you do match all of the criteria that I stated above. What does everyone else think of that?

Personally I don't see post 631 as very threatening towards me

or

merc.

I'd also like to say that had I been active around the deadline (My brother got our computer a Trojan Horse and we had to take it to an IT professional to get rid of it), I would probably have voted Clockwork too, in order to avoid a no lynch. I do think though, that Clockwork was lynched for the same reason as Mega (Being a replacement near the deadline) and it was just a lucky hit. We need to be more careful.

As for who was "in on the Clockwork lynch", I think it very probable that once Clockwork's partner saw the bandwagon forming, they may have jumped on just to avoid suspicion.

I'm going to make my list of scum.

Your list contains all of us >.<

I ask you, does it logically make sense for me to act this way if I was scum?

No, but if you acted the way you would be expected to as scum then it would cast suspicion on you.

It looks like he thought I was going to be the lynch on D2 so he hopped on that "wagon" after ignoring the play between Mirth and myself for the entire day.

Depending on how you look at it, the play between you and Mirth yesterday pointed towards you being scum.

I'm thinking it's one of Gremwell and zeal. Gremwell has failed to express his own opinions almost as much as zeal has.

Not yet having the experience to formulate probable oppinions on who is scum is not much of a tell.

The reason I'm putting so much emphasis on it, is because you don't lay out other options (a set up kill or kill most active scumhunter...)

Personally if it was a set up kill I would suspect Malex, as he seems to be using Mirth's death against me and merc, or if it was for being the most active scum hunter I would suspect Batto, since it leaves him as the only IC and most experienced player.

I'll give a list of who I'm most suspicious of and why tomorrow, but I have to go now.

[zeal]

If you read the whole last page he backs off and flipflops all over the place, it had nothing to do with being a replacement far as I can tell.

Ok I just reread it, and you're right. I must have been very tired or skimming at the time, because I missed it completely and just assumed he used valid arguments.

Malex for his activity the end of the day there, just popped in, in the nick of time to seemingly reluctantly drop the hammer

If Clockwork was his partner though, one would think he would hide his reluctance.

zeal also for being absent from the end of the day (she says it was computer problems and I'm not saying it wasn't, it just stuck out to me)

So you're using something I couldn't control in your case...?

Don't you think it's possible CR was just trying to buss Merc and got caught?

It seems the general consensus now is merc is town, but I'm not

entirely

sure. Clockwork may have intended to bus merc a bit, incase he did get lynched, but when asked for a proper case didn't want to cast any real suspicion on him.

[zeal]

Thanks for reminding me about the list Malex, I completely forgot about it.

Ok, here are my current thoughts on everyone:

merc:

As I said, Clockwork's play prior to his lynching does point to him being town, I still have my doubts. These are mainly based upon WIFOM though, so I'm ignoring them for now.

Malex:

I have to ask where that list is. Or are you just stringing us along?

I see this as a bit aggressive. Regardless of whether I was scum or not, I wouldn't deliberately say something like this and then not do it.

saying you were tired and skimmed through and assumed that Clockwork was using valid arguments is really bad. Didn't you read what Batt said?

Batto said that

after

I reread it, and is it really all that bad to assume that people will at least make sense?

I feel a bit like you're pulling at strings, and are directing most of your "suspicion" at me, since we appear to be the only ones under the microscope right now.

Gremwell:

Although obviously merc disagrees, I actually think placing your vote before you left was a smart thing to do. I really don't have any proper suspicion of you right now, but I'll do a reread later incase I've missed anything.

Batto:

After seeing Malex's reaction to your vote, I am a lot more suspicious of him and will probably later add to it. I do however see a huge risk if Malex isn't scum.

I predict that unless he is scum, merc will die tonight just for being projected as innocent. If he is scum, then to put it bluntly, we're stuffed. Anyway, if anyone except me dies tonight, I have a feeling that we'll lose, because I seem to have the second largest amount of suspicion placed on me. This is why I don't want to be too hasty in voting Malex.

[zeal]

I don't like zeal's prediction on what might happen tonight and the ramifications thereof. I don't think that particular play was necessary all at this point in time, I don't like the phrasing and I don't like how it sets me up as scum based on what scum do tonight.

Ok, firstly, if it seems like it sets you up as scum based on what happens tonight, this was not my intention at all. I was merely trying to explain why I do not want to rush into voting Malex just yet.

considering that clockwork ended up being scum, you are saying that you blindly assumed that a scum was making logical sense in his statements, and you said that after the fact. Why would you assume that?

Because not making sense is going to cast suspicion on you, which is what scum should want least.

Look it up, I mentioned you in 647, Batt mentions his suspicion of me in 648.

I checked, and you're correct here, sorry about that. This does lessen my suspicion on you a slight bit, but you are still top of my list.

[zeal]

"Merc is scum if he doesn't die tonight. Therefore I don't want to vote Malex just yet." Is that a fair summary of what you wrote? If you don't want to vote Malex because you aren't convinced he's scum (and that's all you want to say), then what does that have to do with me?

What I am trying to say is that yes, I don't want to vote Malex because I'm not entirely sure he's scum yet, and because if he isn't I think that we

will

lose.

Seemed eager to appease mirth (with the voting/ unvoting of TSQ), plus he didn't enter the game very "gracefully."

Batto, am I right in saying the above was your reasoning for voting Grem on Day One?

[zeal]

If we don't hit scum today we still have one more chance tomorrow, but 1 scum 2 townies is a hard day and will usually make your head explode.

From my perspective, yes, we have one more chance, but with me being under the second largest amount of suspicion (I think), that chance is likely to be wasted.

For the main part yes, but what I meant by gracefully was that he wanted to lynch someone, IIRC, for being anti-town and didn't care that the person could be protown.

This sounds like more of a newbie mistake to me, but I recognise it could also be a newbie scum mistake.

Was this statement in reference to someone else's post?

Mine, I think.

[zeal]

Can we get an updated scum list from everybody?

Grem
Malex
Zeal
Merc

Can we have a bit more insight into why each of us is on your list Batto?

It's obviously one away from LyLo which is exactly the same as Day 2. Why is this such a problem?

Because I personally think its harder to catch one scum than two.

I understand where you're coming from which may make you hesitant to put down a vote, but that shouldn't stop you from throwing around your opinions on who's scum.

I don't intend to let it hold back my oppinions at all, only my vote.

Post 672 makes no sense to me (which according to what Zeal wrote in 672 is something that a scum would want the least).

You say that it doesn't make sense to you, but then you show that you do understand what I said by repeating it...

why would you say that you assume that someone that ends up being scum was making sense?

Because scum should not want to cast suspicion on themselves, which in my oppinion, not making sense does.

she did not answer the question that I asked her in 671, when I inform her that she is claiming something that is flat out false and ask her why she is trying to discredit me.

At the time I was under the impression that it was correct, and I was not trying to discredit you, merely make a case.

Ok then, here's my list:

1. Malex: You're still top of my list, but my suspicion of you has lessened a signifigant amount.
2. Batto: I don't like your reasons for voting Grem, I can't see enough substance behind them.
3. Grem/merc: I'm not all that suspicious of either of you at the moment.

[zeal]

First off, I haven't made a vote.

Secondly, the reason Malex is still top of my list is because (until now) no one had done anything scummier. I don't really understand your reasoning. Why would I 'follow' your suspicion of Grem when you didn't have anything substantial backing it?

By your reasoning, there doesn't seem to be any reaction to your vote which doesn't make me seem scummy.

[zeal]

I wasn't saying it was, I was just correcting you:

From her list and other posts, I have deduced that she is

sticking with her inital vote

.

The reaction from the first vote, was you going after Malex after I did and still keeping him at the top of your list, even though the reasons you brought up were successfully defended by Malex.

But there was still no one I saw as scummier than Malex at the time...

[zeal]

If you voted Grem to fish for reactions, does this mean he is not actually top of your list?

Judging by his last few posts, I'd say I'm top of Batto's list at the moment.

[zeal]

Oops, sorry about that. I made a second account because I didn't want to use my real name as my username and forgot to switch accounts before posting...

I feel very silly now

[zeal]

Happy Birthday Malex!! ^_^

I use that gambit every once in awhile to try and get scum to claim a power role due to forgetting all powerroles have claimed.

Surely that's never worked? (Especially when the power roles have both been killed by a Mafia nightchoice..)

or she went with the strongest case at the time, added some of her own points to appear to be contributing to the attack, and then sticking with the strongest person to lynch regardless of who it is (besides herself).

I went with 'the strongest case at the time' because it

was

the strongest case at the time, yes, but my points were not so I appeared to be contributing, they were because I thought they were valid reasons. Obviously I am not going to move away from what I think is the strongest case when nothing scummier has happened yet.

[zeal]

Mith: Can we get a prod on Gremwell?

[zeal]

You hadn't posted for five days, I just wanted to make sure you were still here.

[zeal]

Ok, first off I don't like that your reasoning includes things which were out of my control Malex. As I believe I have already stated, I was unable to be "in on the Clockwork lynch" due to computer troubles. (Which I am now certain were caused by my brother looking at naughty pictures >.>)

Grem, you haven't really given any reason as to why you intend to vote me, could you do so? You moved from Batto and Malex to me without giving any explanation at all...

I can see it's likely that I'm going to be lynched, so I'd just like to ask everyone to

please

look at Batto more closely tomorrow, and look back at his play today. I'm relative certain he's scum now. Oh and we still have a few days left, so I'd like it if you'd refrain from dropping the hammer until the last possible moment Grem, so you have some more discussion to look back on tomorrow.

[zeal]

zeal: Can you give us some insight as to why you think Batt is scum? Mirth had the impression he was, but according to her that was "mostly WIFOM". Anything I'd have on Batto would be the same at this point in time.

I think I said this somewhere before, but the main piece of my case on Batto is the play Grem just pointed out. As far as I can see, it can be manipulated no matter what happens to make the victim seem scummy. I kept Malex at the top of my list, because (In my opinion) he was the most suspicious. There was no real case on Grem, and then Batto goes after me for not following it. Even if I

was

scum I would still do the same thing, because there was no reason to suspect Grem from his reasoning. Also, I realise Batto addressed this before:

regardless of it making me look scummy by default (something I feel scum would try to steer away from)

But I'm pretty sure that's WIFOM so I stand by my case.

[zeal]

Argh sorry I did it again >.<

[zeal]

Firstly I'd like to say sorry about Batto, I really was positive he was scum. I just hope I haven't cost us the game.

Anyway, I'll try and redeem myself today. I don't think it's all that surprising that merc was nightkilled, he was obviously the most townish player - I don't think there's much we can gain from looking at his death, but if either of you have any speculation I'd love to hear it. (I would also like to have heard merc's thoughts on whether to lynch Batto, but I guess we'll have to wait til after the game now)

After having a look at the last few posts from yesterday, I haven't been able to decipher much - Both of you switched to Batto for reasons which I still see as perfectly valid.
I'd be more inclined to think Malex is scum from my reread though, as by the time you switched it was obvious you could hammer Batto, which personally I think would be more beneficial to the scum than lynching me. The fact that you did an Unvote and then waited to see the reaction first kind of makes me feel like you were testing to see if it was a safe move. If Grem was scum, it would be a long shot to switch and hope that you or merc would follow.

Of course without Grem's vote on me there was a high possibility of a no-lynch so I can see that it would have seemed like you had to switch. (I'd actually intended to hammer myself if only one of you switched to Batto and we were headed for a no-lynch)

[zeal]

Merc didn't turn up around the end of the day though, so we couldn't have had any other lynch than one of me if Malex hadn't switched and neither me or Batto self voted.

[zeal]

Oops sorry, misread that bit. Yeah, personally I'd like to hear Malex's opinion on what's just happened. He's been reliable so far so I'm assuming he's just having some problems in real life or hasn't realised the thread's open again, but I guess if he's scum he could be hoping we'll duke it out so he can try a quicklynch.

[zeal]

Malex, I don't think you should feel dumb for lynching Batto, his actions really did seem scummy. I have to say I don't blame you for looking at me - I don't see Grem as very scummy. The only thing anyone really brought up against him yesterday was his lack of reasoning, which he amended. I'm pretty sure Grem is town, which means that you are where my suspicion lies. Grem, what do you think of each of us?

[zeal]

*Face palms self*

When will I learn..?

[zeal]

I think I was already pulled up on that Grem, and defended myself.

This game is getting stale I think, there's not much left to discuss at this point - I can't see myself voting for Grem really, so I'm going to vote for Malex within the next few days. Make what you will of it. I have a feeling the outcome of this game rests on your shoulders Grem.

[zeal]

I agree, although for the reason of not thinking you are scum. Why do you think Malex is scummy?

[zeal]

I think you are right there, on the voting part. I'm convinced, so

Vote: Malex McJokeus

. Your last post seems kind of like a final appeal to emotion.

At least this should clear Grem if he doesn't hammer in his next post, and then I can absolutely sure that it's you.

[zeal]

Notice how that is the only time all game that Zeal did not vote for someone when it came to a lynch. I ask you, logically does it make more sense for scum to vote to kill their partner with a deadline approaching, or to step back and not do anything like Zeal did. I think that is somewhat compelling.

Although I believe I've said this multiple times, I didn't have computer access, and if I had been around I would've voted Clockwork, even if I had been scum. Had noone hammered, I would say that we still would have lynched him the next day - His arguments warranted that. Not voting would have been scummy, if it weren't for the fact that I couldn't.

So surely it would have been better for you to hammer your buddy, instead of leaving it and bringing suspicion upon yourself for hesitating too long if he was lynched the next day and flipped scum?

[zeal]

I'd just like to say that I really didn't have access at the time of the Clockwork lynch, it wasn't because I was trying to run out the clock.

If anyone wants to know why, the reasons for each of my kills and roleblocks were as follows:

Night One: I targeted farside because I thought that Mirth, being the most active player, would be protected that night if there was a Doctor in the game. If it was her that was the Doctor, I had expected her to protect Battousai or farside, so I went for farside and blocked Mirth just in case - She was the only one I expected to consider protecting farside.

Night Two: Killed Mirth, because I knew I'd stuffed up believing her claim and wanted to show that it was true, and also because she was the best scumhunter in my opinion and I knew there was no-one to protect her. The reason I automatically believed her was because I knew that there was a doctor in the game from farside's death, and doubted that she would falseclaim such a thing as town - I Roleblocked someone anyway though, but can't remember who.

Night Three: Clockwork's case pretty much made merc a confirmed townie, which I didn't really want to go into the Endgame with.

I don't think I played very well for most of the game, and just got lucky in that I killed the cop night one, and somehow managed to get Batto lynched day three (I was amazingly surprised when I logged on that day and found that while I'd been asleep that not only had I not been hammered, but someone else had...). Out of interest farside, who did you investigate?

Also, sorry I wasn't around to help you out Clockwork, although looking back I have a feeling that if I had been I would have revealed myself in trying to help.

And finally, thanks mith for modding!

[zeal]

Also, I played this game more as a serial killer than scum - My first active partner, kristopf, flaked around the end of Day One so I couldn't talk to him that night, and then the second day Ak47 had to ask for a replacement, who was lynched while I didn't have access, again leaving me on my own. I think this might have contributed to me getting through to the end, since I had no-one to collaberate with at night, or interact with at day really.

[zeal]

Also I think Status should be congratulated, even after his lurking, for guessing who both the scum were in post 49 :p