Newbie 1925 - Game Over

[Sashaddin]

Ok, so I'm a math teacher. I won't vote Teacher because of this, and Arithmancer evidently gets a pass too. Hmm... 19jariege ran away with his number so I'll vote the replacement!
VOTE: Zeebu

[Sashaddin]

Also I guess whenever someone mentions Sasha's name it gets slightly altered. Sorry Sasha! This is what I get for not properly reading names. I'm just going to refer to him as Sasha from now on as to not repeat that mistake.

Call me what you want, honey .

[Sashaddin]

ASC, what do you think of Sasha’s silence after the wagon?

I posted at work, then went to the restaurant with my wife and kids.
I just saw that I got to L-1 over a RVS post and it made me go hmmm....

[Sashaddin]

VOTE: theASC

I'm slightly offended you think anyone could be so stupid.
I kinda wish someone had hammered though. That'd have to be some sort of record and I, for one, would be happy to be in the mafia hall of fame.

22.2% chance of fame 77.7% shame

This is my kind of posts!
UNVOTE: Zeebu

[Sashaddin]

Sushis, all you can eat.
Mine are 7 yo and 9 months old

[Sashaddin]

Probably scum if town!Sasha

What's the problem with Sasha getting lynched then?

If he flips town then we know who one of the scum is.

If not, then we just lynched scum in less than 3 hours. Win, win in my book.

You've never encountered all-town wagons?

[Sashaddin]

@board-general experience levels? If not your first game, give me a little self-meta?

Was this directed to me?

[Sashaddin]

-general experience levels? If not your first game, give me a little self-meta?

12 games completed, only 2 as scum. I'm a lurker-answerer though I am trying to change my style to become more active. I'm usually useless for reads on Day 1, but I get sharper as the game progresses. I think Day 1 is only pure speculation without a flip.

[Sashaddin]

Obviously, all town wagons happen but that wasn't what we are discussing.

Too much fish inside me to think straight right now I guess. Sorry for the interruption.

[Sashaddin]

I don't find that too surprising - 7 hours isn't an unreasonable gap between posts. I guess I find the fact that they posted without waiting for a reply at all a little unusual but apart from that I don't have a problem with it.

I opened the game 6 minutes after the beginning. When you posted I was already in class teaching, then I had to go and show an apartment to around 30 people before finally going to stuff my face with sushis.

I can't sit around for long stretches often, I'm more inclined to come and do little bursts. Real life first...

[Sashaddin]

experience:
~70 completed games on site
~20 Newbie games

With your join date this is quite impressive.

[Sashaddin]

I just don't understand the people who oppose L-1 early game, is it bad to pressure someone this way?

Usually no, but when it is because of math with/without an 's' ... it's a lolwagon.

[Sashaddin]

I think that the way TheASC pulled his vote on me at L-1 is town, or very crafty scum.

[Sashaddin]

TTTT is less obvious. He votes, but doesn't want anyone to hammer. The 'I like where this is going' is mysterious by itself.

[Sashaddin]

Townleans: ASC, Teacher, and Schiavetto a bit
Scumleans: JPD
Rest are null!

[Sashaddin]

Why JPD scumlean, Sasha?

29 mostly.

[Sashaddin]

The second line. Not caring about if the lynch was a good one or not is scummy to me. The going for a record part is awful.

[Sashaddin]

Why are you town reading Teacher?

I liked both aspects of the post 40. Plus, I felt like giving reads.

[Sashaddin]

Could you elaborate on why you liked them? What about my question regarding Schiavetto?

1. Suspicious I might have panicked and went dark while the wagon built itself is almost 100% town.
2. He wants to know a bit of everyone because he intends to hunt, with meta if need is.

I think Schiavetto's analysis (bolded, right?) could come from either alignment, so I'm not giving full townie points for that.

[Sashaddin]

Why JPD scumlean, Sasha?

With the posts following this one, I can reconsider JDP. Back in the null pile for him.

[Sashaddin]

I suspect scum are in the lurker pool, I can't find scum in anyone around 10 posts right now.

[Sashaddin]

@TTTT: Any town reads so far?

[Sashaddin]

do you always post something immediately once you have an inkling or do you withhold for a while to try and gather something slightly more concrete? honest question

If there is action already going on, I'll hold. If the game state is flatlined, I'llpost it. Just my own style though.

[Sashaddin]

that's actually an incredibly townie question for a newbie to ask

Personally, I started with a paranoiac state style where I wanted every post to be 100% perfect, to be townread. This can lead people to think you're scum that walks on eggshells...
Now I go with what I think, no holds. It makes me more authentic, but many people find that I'm scummy even when playing town. Eh. Since I'm authentic, it's much easier to play this way though.
Find your own style and be comfortable with it. Good players will still be able to read you.

[Sashaddin]

Oh I meant to quote Zeebu in the above ^^

[Sashaddin]

This was my Semi-Experienced comment btw...

[Sashaddin]

I think Arith is flaking, and it"s a slot I wanted to know more about. Come back!

[Sashaddin]

I don't llike this Zeebu wagon.

VOTE: ZestOfLife

[Sashaddin]

129 above was one solid post. Allow me to sheep it. I'm still not 100% comfortable with the wagon though...
VOTE: Zeebu

L-1

[Sashaddin]

why do you dislike the wagon

I'm growing wary of one of the people on the wagon. It might not be 100% town. I know an all-town rarely happens anyways... but ...
I might have some free time at work to check this out further, I will have a clearer head than yesterday evening.

[Sashaddin]

why do you dislike the wagon

I'm growing wary of one of the people on the wagon. It might not be 100% town. I know an all-town rarely happens anyways... but ...
I might have some free time at work to check this out further, I will have a clearer head than yesterday evening.

VOTE: Sahsa

You say you don't like the Zeebu wagon and vote for Zest instead (124), still aren't comfortable with it but switch your vote to him for L-1 (138) and then say you are wary of people on the wagon (145).

The logic doesn't seem consistent.

It is not 100% consistent, I agree. We are still early and I preferred Zest at first. After Teacher's post, I thought about it and decided Zeebu was better because of

something I will not talk about right now

.
I don't mind the L-1 to squeeze some info, the game has stalled a bit and we need some fresh meat.

[Sashaddin]

I'd rather a newbie replace in than another SE

This is weird.

[Sashaddin]

Didn't see 175 before posting. Glad I'm not the only one tickled.

[Sashaddin]

I think Sasha and I have the same thing we are waiting

on Zeebu's wagon to see. If Im right, that would go along way to answering JPD's case on Sasha for me. But I agree

it cant be discussed at the moment

.

[Sashaddin]

is it fair to say that the general consensus is that one of either tttt or i are likely to be scum?

Both scum: 20%
TTTT scum only: 10%
Zeebu scum only: 50%
Both town: 20%

I can see a scenario where TTTT would be your mate, but I'm pretty sure he isn't scum if you're not. Other will have different anwers I guess,

[Sashaddin]

Now I propose a question to all of you: What is your general read of Arithmancer's slot after reading my posts and why?

I didn't have an opinion after only 2 posts, frankly. You appear as a town lean to me so far.

[Sashaddin]

Don't want to derail whatever this is, but fwiw I'm townreading both of you and I'm excited to see what answers would come from this.

Me too, but right now I'm not having the

something

I was waiting for so far. Which means my guesses might have been wrong...

[Sashaddin]

if i were to get hammered right now and turn up town, next actions/thoughts?

My

something

would tell me what to do, if it happens...
If not or until then, I'd scour the thread over and over to find a straw to gasp at and build from there. When I have the time, that is. Probably tonight, nothing has changed in 36 hours.

[Sashaddin]

Also, in Sasha's most recent posts he mentions this 'something' not happening/not being what he thought it was.

I thought that after my L-1 vote,

a certain player

would quickly unvote. A hammer would have been useful too I guess, but I was looking for the jump off.
Right now that wagon has been static at this state for about two days, I'll unvote myself. Time is short and we must agree on a wagon, Zeebu can still wait later.
UNVOTE: Zeebu

[Sashaddin]

what he thought it could do for us and why it was worth jumping on a wagon he didn't agree with.

Some associatives or dissociative depending on the player that hammers or jumps off. Some players have bad reflexes/instincts.
I mostly agreed with the wagon, just not wholeheartedly.

[Sashaddin]

@Sash
is 1870 your only scum Newbie game?
is Mini Normal 2044 your only non-Newbie scum game?

Yes and yes. I don't draw red often. Town PRs rarely too when I think of it.

[Sashaddin]

this game is way too inactive...

so plz answer a couple questions:
what time zone do you live in?
when are you most likely to be active?
do you usually phone post or computer post?

Eastern,, -5 GMT
Sporadically at work, mostly after 9 pm when the kids are sleeping and the wife is off my back
computer only

[Sashaddin]

If you notice, it’s been christmasized too. That was from a few years ago we all christmased up the avatars

Mine would be a snowfield....

[Sashaddin]

Ah I missed gamestart I blame timezones

Reading through the game gives me conflicting thoughts in my head. I am seeing ASC either being paranoid town or him trying to make himself look townie (Schia mentions this in his 39).

I just don't understand the people who oppose L-1 early game, is it bad to pressure someone this way?

why do you dislike the wagon

I'm growing wary of one of the people on the wagon. It might not be 100% town. I know an all-town rarely happens anyways... but ...
I might have some free time at work to check this out further, I will have a clearer head than yesterday evening.

Don't want to derail whatever this is, but fwiw I'm townreading both of you and I'm excited to see what answers would come from this.

Me too, but right now I'm not having the

something

I was waiting for so far. Which means my guesses might have been wrong...

TTTT (2) - zeebu, ClearlyClairty

@Zeebu
your vote on me is from 118 (reasons given in 117)
but you never try to push my lynch directly
215 was weird coming from town who isn't really pushing his SR
in 238 you say you are "sensing some distancing between clarity and tttt"
other than that nothing pushing others to vote for me
or any re-evaluations of your read on me
like I've posted a billion times this game but you aren't replying to me like you think I'm scum

sasha hasnt done anything of substance since unvoting me and even then still holding on to the cryptic response. i think he needs to spill the beans since it can only help town at this point.[/url] had a 'pissed off' vibe to it.

so far i havent found anything particularly scummy about jpd and teacher. JPDs has had a vote on sash for a while and teacher just threw a vote on wilky for a push for activity i guess.

So my 'something' was me suspecting Zest would jump off the wagon. Unfortunately, he replaced immediately after so I couldn't verify if his logic was consistent. I thought the replacement would maybe take this path too, but it hasn't happened that way.

Sorry about my inaction, it's a busy moment at work and I'm tired as hell this week, my brain has less power to compute mafia situations.

[Sashaddin]

I think Zeebu's would be a good counter-wagon to mine.
VOTE: Zeebu
I still doubt the guy.

[Sashaddin]

I think Sasha and I have the same thing we are waiting

on Zeebu's wagon to see. If Im right, that would go along way to answering JPD's case on Sasha for me. But I agree

it cant be discussed at the moment

.

Can we know what was related to me and wagon now?

[Sashaddin]

Not confident in any of my scum reads at the moment. I know I should vote someone for pressure, but I'm struggling to decide who to go for and feel like I need a large amount of evidence/reasoning before I feel comfortable voting now that we're out of RVS.

Zeebu for pressure.

[Sashaddin]

For the most part I agree with this. Teacher, zeebu and JPD are my strongest trs currently.

What do you think towny about Zeebu?

[Sashaddin]

I'm gonna find teaching jobs at my school for all the teachers here
and assign you extra planning periods
so you'll be more active in your games

I work 32 hours a week, 200 days a year. Good luck to try to make me do more
Seriously, our work conditions are great here.

[Sashaddin]

the longer this day goes the fewer TRs I have

What's changed?

[Sashaddin]

I've got Saturday school

Where in the nine unholy circles of Hell is that abomination coming from? I put Bailey's in my Saturday morning coffee, I'm not showing up for work after that! Man, your province/state/district/whatever sucks!

[Sashaddin]

now look at 236 (just quoted above)
where Clarity is all over the place with this convoluted explanation

I began responding, then went and checked the iso. Apart from this one comment, Clarity seems pretty townie to me. I won't push this way for now.

[Sashaddin]

365 is a townish response
Schiav answers in a way consistent with her prior statements

I find 187 and 345 to be slightly off tone.

[Sashaddin]

As for you, it would have been your reaction to the intent - how you played it.

I played the waiting game for a bit. If he had jumped off, I would have focused on him a lot. If he would have only protested I'd have engaged the slot more rationally. But nothing happened so I think I can go search elsewhere. I think a wolf would have been pressured to get off ASAP the wagon by his partner, scum can't expect to lose one player in the early days to win in Newbies.

[Sashaddin]

@ ASC, Teacher, TTTT:
If you had to choose a lynch outside of me and Zebu, who would it be?

[Sashaddin]

now look at 236 (just quoted above)
where Clarity is all over the place with this convoluted explanation

I began responding, then went and checked the iso. Apart from this one comment, Clarity seems pretty townie to me. I won't push this way for now.

365 is a townish response
Schiav answers in a way consistent with her prior statements

I find 187 and 345 to be slightly off tone.

As for you, it would have been your reaction to the intent - how you played it.

I played the waiting game for a bit. If he had jumped off, I would have focused on him a lot. If he would have only protested I'd have engaged the slot more rationally. But nothing happened so I think I can go search elsewhere. I think a wolf would have been pressured to get off ASAP the wagon by his partner, scum can't expect to lose one player in the early days to win in Newbies.

@ ASC, Teacher, TTTT:
If you had to choose a lynch outside of me and Zebu, who would it be?

I think it's wrong to count those as one single post for your analysis, they are not related one to another. I try to put a single idea per post, that"s why there are 4 of them.

[Sashaddin]

This was for JPD ^

[Sashaddin]

As mentioned, I don't think these can be used in an AI way.

I agree.

[Sashaddin]

Zest, the invisible Noodle and Wilky seem to have trouble playing their slot. I was wary of Zest a bit earlier, but the few I read from Wilky makes me think he's town.
JPD looks like a standard townie. I was SRing him at the beginning, he's a town to me now.
ASC is now mysterious but probable town
Teacher is probably town.
TTTT is probably town.
I'm town.

Substracting 6 players leaves

Schiavetto
Zeebu
ClearlyClarity.

I'd lynch anyone in those three right now.

[Sashaddin]

Let's lynch one of those two today, I don't mind which.

I'll give a last chance to wilky.
VOTE: ClearlyClarity

[Sashaddin]

ASC, ClearlyClarity and Schiavetto shouldn't be sitting on their vanity wagons, we'e runnning out of time. Wilky should be voting too.
Vote me if you want to, we might learn something.

[Sashaddin]

JPD, you've been on me alll the game Are you still comfortable with this? Who would be your vote if you change?.

[Sashaddin]

I'm going to be V/LA for at least until Friday. Going away for a work related formation. I'll probably be able to catch up once or twice in a day.

[Sashaddin]

@Sash
who are your top 2 TRs?

(back from congress, whew)

TTTT and JPD.

[Sashaddin]

Ok I read some Iso's and excluding the existence of Wilky, because he isn't here, I'd say Zeebu has killed Teacher last night. Every other iso makes sense to me.
VOTE: Zeebu

[Sashaddin]

also, i dont know if this is any sort of valid information, but i was prodded once for activity. wilky hasnt been (at least not in the thread) but also hasnt been replaced yet. someone had to send in a night action. on top of that, looking at wilky's profile, he's been active on the forum and yet utterly non-existent in this game.

I think I know a mod or two that begin counting a new block of time (36h this game) when the day starts. I think you are trying to obfuscate and deflect here.

[Sashaddin]

@Sash
who are your top 2 TRs?

TTTT > TheASC > JPD

Schiavetto = Wilky

Zeebu

[Sashaddin]

What do you think Zeebu's reasoning was for killing teacher specifically over other strong players such as TTTT?

In 402 and 445 I can see Teacher getting back slowly on Zeebu.
I looked at TTTT's iso and he doesn't seem to be as accusatory of Zeebu than Teacher, so he could be nightkilled somewhat later.
TTTT is strong, right, but I think Teacher is strong too and had better reads Day 1. Both are SE btw... Should be strong.

[Sashaddin]

TTTT is strong, right, but I think Teacher is strong too and had better reads Day 1.

wait...
how do you know he had better reads day1?
the only flip that could inform this statement is Clarity
and I initiated that wagon and pushed it to completion

I thought better in the sense of : more assured, determinated, not... more accurate I guess. English is second language sorry. Your reads were good too as
You were both on Clarity's ass for a bit iirc, that's not the point I was wanted to make. I tried to quote a post I think I read but I can't find it. You were saying that you were running out of town reads at some point and that's why I got the feeling you were less assured.

[Sashaddin]

@TTTT: After rereading your Iso twice and searching with keywords, the post I thought about wsa definitely not from you. I'd then say Teacher got knocked off instead of you because less people were reading you town day 1, Teacher was town to everyone iirc.

Maybe I should begin taking written notes again.

[Sashaddin]

VOTE: Sash

Lol... I don't blame you.

[Sashaddin]

It still might be Wilky... You'd be right then.

[Sashaddin]

it still might be you

True! But not the case. I'm just awful like that.

[Sashaddin]

Zeebu's not so bad after all. I can like a couple of his posts if I convince myself he's town.
UNVOTE: Zeebu
I'll vote after the prodded two manifest themselves.

[Sashaddin]

Ok I read some Iso's

and excluding the existence of Wilky, because he isn't here, I'd say Zeebu has killed Teacher last night. Every other iso makes sense to me.
VOTE: Zeebu

Would like to mention that I'm not a fan of Sasha's townreads either. Says that TTTT and I are his top reads in post 479. Then says ASC and TTTT are his top reads in 482 only 20 minutes later with

no explanation.

I read stuff that changed my mind.

[Sashaddin]

I'd like some reasoning for why he has ASC as his top town read.

Posts like 233, 409 and 467. I like the tone of his posting in general too. I don't think he bussed in 409, I think that 's a town vote.

[Sashaddin]

You went from "Zeebu is definitely scum" to "Zeebu's not so bad after all" in 20 posts.

After 13 hours or real life... I tried to catch up and read a lot between those posts, just so you know. I don't think Zeebu is such a strong suspect now that I've tried to think in a certain way about his posts. But it took some reading...

I'm having a bad game and I am scummy as town they say of me.... I don't think a PR should waste a night on me. Lynch me if I'm your suspect so you guys can have a better shot at investigating the wolf.

[Sashaddin]

I still think Sash is scum. I don't think he gave a good enough answer to the 'something' situation and I don't like their inconsistent Zeebu vote. Goes from 'zeebu killed teacher' to 'if I squint he may be innocent'. It also doesn't line up with his Day1 play where he was convinced by teacher that Zeebu was scum. Surely he'd be even kor confident about it now that teacher has flipped?

My something thing was just that what I said. But the player I was watching flaked and it made me look real bad...
I waffle a lot on Zeebu. Hard to read slot. For now, he's town again. For now.
I don't understand the last part about being confident, sorry...

[Sashaddin]

The only post from Zeebu in this time is this one, which doesn't feel incredibly townie to me. From experience, scum is far more likely to "townlock" people than town is, and hard bussing is definitely a thing that exists - considering how inactive Clarity was, it's not out of the question that someone thought the town cred they'd get for bussing her was more than the value of keeping her alive.

I'd say yes and no. More yes than no in fact. I'm not just 100% behind the 'scum town locks more than town does' thing, from instinct. But you're probably right anyways, that's not the kind of thing I am watching closely and you seem to be.

[Sashaddin]

and I initiated that wagon and pushed it to completion

Open question: Was the second scum on or off the wagon?

[Sashaddin]

I read stuff that changed my mind.

Could you share what that stuff was?

I can like a couple of his posts if I convince myself he's town.

What posts?

I've called you out multiple times for not posting any sort of reasoning or explanations about posts and you still continue to do so. You say something like "I don't like the tone of that" but you don't say why. Nobody questions you about it so you get away with looking like you are analysing or scumhunting without having to do any work. I've said before that I feel like you say things and then only come up with reasons for doing so afterwards.

From your town-meta, I expected to see something a bit different.

239 and 332 where he seems to have great reads.
474-475 where he tries to understand a possible cover-up
487-491 where he townlocks TTTT

I'm not 100% into this one I guess, the flaking gets to me. I thought in a newbie game most would be more excited so more eager to play but this doesn't seem the case. You have a good read, I'm not my usual town self. I think I stepped my game up yesterday, I'll try to continue this way to the end.

[Sashaddin]

Spoiler:

I've quoted all the posts below if you don't want to click on them an open them in a new tab.

124 - Cool. No problems with this.

138 - This is a bit weird. Very quick turn around to voting Zeebu with the reasoning being a sheeped post which wasn't very strong in my opinion. Votes even though they aren't comfortable.

145 - Is now wary of the people on the wagon. Later claims this person is Zest and that they were looking to see their reaction to the wagon building. I think this 'something' scenario was BS to explain away their bad play.

216 - Believes Zeebu is 50% scum. Those are great odds, especially on Day 1. Picking at random, you have a 25% chance of hitting scum. Odds better than that means your scum read is pretty strong. I'd happily lynch someone if I thought there was a 50% chance of them flipping scum.

259 - Unvotes from the wagon despite having a strong scum read on Zeebu. Acts like they aren't scum reading Zeebu and that their only reason for voting was to see Zest's reaction. Hasn't actually given any reasons for voting Zeebu or having such a strong read on them. Has only sheeped teacher and just because you say it is sheeping, doesn't make it cool. I think their reasoning for unvoting is that they were questioned over their votes and they backed down to avoid any sort of conflict. Seems like they had forgot they had "legitimate" reasons to vote Zeebu.

339 - Suddenly votes for Zeebu again. Okay? Why did you unvote then?

Sasha's thoughts are inconsistent. They switch between not voting and voting Zeebu. The votes don't align with his thoughts and his thoughts dont align with each other.

If I were to look at anyone else in this thread, I'd find a consistent train of thought and their votes would align with what they have said. Looking at Sasha's previous games I see much more consistent thoughts and votes. Also looking at previous games I see a greater willingness to defend thoughts, reads and themselves. I've not seen it to the degree I expected this game.

Spoiler: Sasha's Day 1 Zeebu Inconsistencies

I don't llike this Zeebu wagon.

VOTE: ZestOfLife

129 above was one solid post. Allow me to sheep it. I'm still not 100% comfortable with the wagon though...
VOTE: Zeebu

L-1

I'm growing wary of one of the people on the wagon. It might not be 100% town. I know an all-town rarely happens anyways... but ...
I might have some free time at work to check this out further, I will have a clearer head than yesterday evening.

TTTT scum only: 10%
Zeebu scum only: 50%
Both town: 20%

I can see a scenario where TTTT would be your mate, but I'm pretty sure he isn't scum if you're not. Other will have different anwers I guess,

I thought that after my L-1 vote, a certain player would quickly unvote. A hammer would have been useful too I guess, but I was looking for the jump off.
Right now that wagon has been static at this state for about two days, I'll unvote myself. Time is short and we must agree on a wagon, Zeebu can still wait later.
UNVOTE: Zeebu

I think Zeebu's would be a good counter-wagon to mine.
VOTE: Zeebu
I still doubt the guy.

The inconsistencies continue into day 2.

Spoiler:

There's small one's like him saying TTTT and I are his top town reads then saying TTTT and ASC are his top townreads 20 minutes later. Says he read stuff to change his mind, but I don't believe it happening in that time frame. In the first 14 minutes he made two other posts about different people. That leaves 6 minutes to read ASC's ISo and re evaluate his town reads.

There's the issue with him "misremembering" a post of TTTT's to justify his thought process for Zeebu killing teacher. Turns out this post didn't exist.

Switches between thinking Zeebu killed teacher to Zeebu being town. Doesn't give reasoning beyond "I thought differently."

I can't see one post from Sasha where he explained his reaosning without prompting. He just says "I don't like this" and people either don't question it and he gets away with the illusion of scumhunting or people doe and he scrambles to fabricate reasons. Everything I read from Sahsa just makes it seem like he is scum. I feel like he is faking his scum reading and faking his reasoning and inconsistencies are coming from this.

I'm 80% sure Sasha would flip scum. Only reason it's not 100% is that I have a tendency to tunnel and I could see that playing a part here. I have been voting Sasha for 400 posts now. I'm going to take a break from Sasha and look at others. If Sasha did flip town, my world would crumble and I'd feel awful for throwing so much shade at him for the entire game.

Sorry for formatting if it's awful. I write on a 4k monitor so I have to guess how long paragraphs should be. For me 4 or 5 sentences will fit on one line. Makes it difficult.

The Zeebu slot has been giving me headache all the game. Zeebu was the main subject during Day 1 I'd say, so it's normal to change your idea once or twice. I also stopped taking written notes of the posts I read, maybe I can interpret some differently at another moment.

[Sashaddin]

The Zeebu slot has been giving me headache all the game. Zeebu was the main subject during Day 1 I'd say, so it's normal to change your idea once or twice. I also stopped taking written notes of the posts I read, maybe I can interpret some differently at another moment.
(Tiny characters in last post, don't know why.)

[Sashaddin]

I'm 80% sure Sasha would flip scum. Only reason it's not 100% is that I have a tendency to tunnel and I could see that playing a part here. I have been voting Sasha for 400 posts now. I'm going to take a break from Sasha and look at others. If Sasha did flip town, my world would crumble and I'd feel awful for throwing so much shade at him for the entire game.

I totally merit that shade, I have been playing awfully so far. That 20 % is not a longshot though

[Sashaddin]

Quick reads list:

Town:

teacher

, Sashaddin

Townlean:
Schiavetto, JPD

Null:
TheASC, ZestOfLife

Scumlean:
zeebu

Scum:
TTTT

Need more content from players on null.

Strategically, his partner should be one of those four. That's where I'd put them in my read list personally anyways.

[Sashaddin]

@JPD: Schiavetto, who only spoke briefly of CC in 296 before hammering with confidence (Boom) is my main suspect for now. I'd say it's reasonable to think scum would have bussed here. Easy town cred to be gained.
VOTE: Schiavetto

[Sashaddin]

BTW, @teacher, remember to address me at some point so we don't get accused of being partners~*~*~

This feels weird. Like trying to make an alibi or something. Especially since Teacher got nightkilled.

[Sashaddin]

Current thoughts:
ASC
-----
zeebu,

Schia

,

teacher

-----
TTTT, JPD, Sasha
-----

Clarity

, wilky

This might be why ASC is alive instead of teacher. He didn't read Schiavetto as scum.

[Sashaddin]

I tried to quote a post I think I read but I can't find it. You were saying that you were running out of town reads at some point and that's why I got the feeling you were less assured.

FOUND IT! I FINA

fuckina

LLY FOUND IT!
It's 349 !!
Ok, so I'm not crazy now. There was one!

[Sashaddin]

There's small one's like him saying TTTT and I are his top town reads then saying TTTT and ASC are his top townreads 20 minutes later. Says he read stuff to change his mind, but I don't believe it happening in that time frame. In the first 14 minutes he made two other posts about different people. That leaves 6 minutes to read ASC's ISo and re evaluate his town reads.

There's the issue with him "misremembering" a post of TTTT's to justify his thought process for Zeebu killing teacher. Turns out this post didn't exist.

Well right now ASC has 32 posts. If he had that amount at that moment, that's an average of 11 seconds a post, most being one-liners. That's a lot of time for a single post, count it out. It's totally true.

I found it, it exists! 349

[Sashaddin]

The above was quoted from 517

[Sashaddin]

But no, instead, Sash comes out here in full goddamn daylight and lynches me w/ some headass logic and a read on me that's more characteristic someone trying to brute-force a sudoku.

I litterally laughed incontrollably for close to a minute! Waaaaaah!

[Sashaddin]

The biggest argument I can see for scum!Sash rn is they're fickle with lynches in a way that can be read as desperate/panicky. TheASC mentioned here how quickly Sash changed their tune on zeebu. I think there's some heft to that, esp. considering how the unlynch on zeebu came immediately after a votecount which made it apparent that their zeebu-push wasn't gonna take off--so they switch things up, they poke around and see what else works (i.e., they try for me).

It's weird to me, though, that out of the four players they highlighted scum!Sash would go for me in particular. I'm going to try to lay this out clearly, but bear with me--if Sash is last scum, they know that all four of those players flip green, regardless of role. They could probably get away with going for ZoL-slot, but that point's been talked to death today--no reason to lynch the inactive slot; wouldn't do much for their image. They could go for JPD, but he's had some decent contributions since he's been back with us and there's the risk of it seeming retaliatory. For scum!Sash, the most sensible push out the bunch would probably be TheASC--somebody's already on the wagon, and as would-be last scum, scum!Sash would have more to benefit from that wagon defensively speaking.

1. Yeah, I tried from a new angle, and the first thing that sprang to my eyes was your quickhammer. That's why I got a small interest on you right now.

2. The last time I was scum, for the record, I got to lylo because I wasn't nightkilling the most obvious target. I'm not afraid to gamble! viewtopic.php?f=2&t=77764

[Sashaddin]

@JPD I don't like the idea of confing anyone based on sub rotations

Me neither.

[Sashaddin]

Point 1 is that Sasha hadn't done any active scum hunting at that point. Most of his posts were irrelevant imo. He asked two questions (which weren't helpful) and just parroted others. Some of the posts I listed were a stretch but that was mostly deliberate. I wanted to see him defend himself but he didn't and I found that to be at odds with his town meta.

Point 2 is that he said "I suspect scum are in the lurker pool" without having made any effort to question people or progress the game. It felt (feels) like an excuse to not do any scumhunting.

Point 3 is the inconsistent thought process for jumping on the Zeebu bandwagon. I explain this a bit better in a recent post (517)

Point 4 is the reluctance to share reasoning/analysis/information. Again, I explain this better in 517. Long story short, I feel like he makes his reasons up after the fact.

1. True. I was more busy than usual and less into the game.
2. That was from a bit of thinking actually. I don't post everything I analyze.
3. I waffle on that slot like crazy. Very hard read to me.
4. Apart from my missed ambush on the Zest slot, I felt I had explained much of my thoughts. Do you have an example?

[Sashaddin]

This is my intent to hammer Sash

after Sash claims everyone will have a chance to discuss/counterclaim
I'll give it at least 24 hours from this post

Claiming

Vanilla Townie

[Sashaddin]

339 - Sash makes zeebu vote after I start pushing CC and others voice suspicions
369

- Sash says CC is TR

385 - Sash votes wilky (why the change from zeebu?)[/color]

392 - Sash says he'd lynch between Schiav, Zeebu, CC (where'd that come from?)

396 - Sash votes CC

[/color]
369 was a bad read.
No post in 385, must be 388... but I never ever voted Wilky himself. Where did you read this? I don't even vote near 388.
392, those three names come from a process of elimination from my townreads. I think the post itself is quite clear.
396 I combine my 392 and ASC's 394.

You're looking reachy now, TTTT...

[Sashaddin]

If I ever get quickhammered...
JPD has been tunneling me all game, I don't think he ever considered someone else. Looks Bad
Schiavetto has been mostly townreading me even when I was scumreading him. Looks Good.
TTTT is probably trying to get a hammer to get town cred. Looks Bad, especially when I flip green.

[Sashaddin]

I wanted a Sash claim bc it looks like Sash softed PR twice on day1
269
407
but now can't claim PR bc his partner is dead and it would mean a counterclaim and game over

I can see how 269 is a softclaim, but can you walk me through 407?

"we might learn something"
I mean it could be meant as "we might learn something about the other players voting for me"
but it could also be meant as "you will learn I am a PR"

269 was a VT softclaim.
407 -> 'we might learn something' was about possible wagonomics
I never hinted I had a PR, at least not voluntarily

[Sashaddin]

I wanted a Sash claim bc it looks like Sash softed PR twice on day1
269
407
but now can't claim PR bc his partner is dead and it would mean a counterclaim and game over

I can see how 269 is a softclaim, but can you walk me through 407?

"we might learn something"
I mean it could be meant as "we might learn something about the other players voting for me"
but it could also be meant as "you will learn I am a PR"

269 was a VT softclaim.
407 -> 'we might learn something' was about possible wagonomics
I never hinted I had a PR, at least not voluntarily

[Sashaddin]

Sash should be the lynch today because...

1) overall scummy play
2) his actions around CC's lynch are sketchy
3) he looks to have softed PR day1 but now claims VT
5) we should not risk outing a PR by taking anybody else to L-1
6) Sash should not survive to Lylo and scum will NOT kill him for us if he is town. If he is town and isn't lynched today we'll have to lynch him at some point anyway
7) there was no #4 and you didn't notice so now you have to do what I say

1. I kinda agree, mostly bad play because it's scummy
2. I don't get this one
3. No, I really missed my post there if you think this way.
4. ?
5. I agree
6. Probably
7. TTTT is my new overlord

I agree I should be the lynch du jour, but I won't self-hammer out of principle. At tihs point, I am only but a liability for town.

[Sashaddin]

269 was a VT softclaim.

why would you softclaim VT?

I assumed it was the same as softclaiming a pr. Maybe it's a bad strategy.

[Sashaddin]

stop giving me doubts Sash!

I play too bad to survive, yet too good to be lynched squarely... what a mess. sorry guys.

[Sashaddin]

if you are town please give us some last thoughts
if you are scum feel free to self-hammer
because even thought I really liked 641 you still have to be the lynch

617 were my last thoughts, I can try to find more.

MJ looks a lot more townie since the slot is being played actively.
JPD is either the remaining scum or else has abused his tunneling power on me
ASC is kinda difficult to understand to me the more the game goes on. I liked his early reaction but now he leaves me a bit cold

[Sashaddin]

Votecount 2.05

MaryJoLisa (2) -

zeebu, TTTT

Sashaddin (2) -

JPD, TheASC

TheASC (1) -

Schiavetto

Schiavetto (1) -

Sashaddin

Not Voting (1) -

MaryJoLisa

With 7 players alive it takes 4 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 2 is in (expired on 2019-04-26 20:20:00).

VOTE: Sash

This is L-1

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Sashaddin

UNVOTE: Sasha

I'm confused. I need to go through this again.

VOTE: Sashaddin

I thought I was already hammered for a moment. Still at

L-1

[Sashaddin]

TTTT is probably trying to get a hammer to get town cred. Looks Bad, especially when I flip green.

why do you think scum!me would get towncred for hammering town!you?

Because of the amount of effort you would have made. Seeing someone moving is better than seeing someone static. To me, at least. And to many who scumread me comes to think of it.

[Sashaddin]

Nothing. I thought I saw something that you'd pick up on, but if you didn't pick up on it, then I was probably reading too deeply into it in the first place.

(Telll me. It'll be our secret!)

[Sashaddin]

I really hope someone else will jump into this discussion soon, I think I could help a bit more before being lynched if we are more into this.

[Sashaddin]

i mean, im here for the next half hour or so, but im not sure what i can add that anyone would pay attention to

Zeebs, why aren't you voting me?

[Sashaddin]

This is pathetic, I think I can only step up my game when my ass is on the line. As I just said in another game thread, maybe I should quit playing Mafia. I end up lynched early, it just confuses town and helps no one but scum.

[Sashaddin]

Sasha made a bunch of comments after he thought he was hammered, but then claimed that he didn't realize that he wasn't hammered. It seemed like it could have been staged.

Would anyone fake that? Maybe that's too obvious.

I can see lynchers doing this, but the lynchee?

[Sashaddin]

Thanks for putting me out of my misery.

[Sashaddin]

See you guys in the dead thread!

[Sashaddin]

Am I still allowed to speak about the game?

[Sashaddin]

I guess you're green if you're planning on talking in the dead thread.

Did you have a doubt?

[Sashaddin]

I'm pretty sure you're green yourself too then, scum wouldn't have had to 'guess' my color out loud and posted 670 above

[Sashaddin]

Well done all, and thanks for modding!