Newbie 1925 - Game Over

[teacher]

Maths is the devil, I concur. History all the way. That makes way too many teachers in the room too.

VOTE: Sashasdin

[teacher]

Maths is the devil, I concur. History all the way. That makes way too many teachers in the room too.

VOTE: Sashasdin

Teacher, any particular reason for going to L-2 within the first hour?

caught scum?

[teacher]

ASC, what do you think of Sasha’s silence after the wagon?

@board-general experience levels? If not your first game, give me a little self-meta?

[teacher]

Finally, @zeebu, it is site meta to have an avi as a form of facial/post recognition. If you’re not graphically inclined give me a category and I can search something up.

[teacher]

Beetle.

PEdit: fair enough. Hope it was good. Mine are 7 and 5.

[teacher]

To the board.

[teacher]

Probably scum if town!Sasha

What's the problem with Sasha getting lynched then?

If he flips town then we know who one of the scum is.

If not, then we just lynched scum in less than 3 hours. Win, win in my book.

You've never encountered all-town wagons?

I think they were referring to a lolhammerer.

[teacher]

I’m liking the atmosphere in the room, if not the activity though I guess it’s just the weekend with many family folk, and a couple ordinarily reaction players (I’m one too).

That’s honestly one of the reasons I love MS - the long deadlines that accommodate real life. Speaking of, &zeebu I’m mobile limited but will send some trucks tonight.

Why JPD scumlean, Sasha?

[teacher]

Why JPD scumlean, Sasha?

29 mostly.

What about 29?

Sorry to be a nudge, just trying to see how you think.

[teacher]

I like Mariah Carey, mezcal/grenadine cocktails, and waking up smelling like lavender -

This line is still making me smile btw. And I just used some lavender hand soap!

[teacher]

Also, @zeebu - here is one option. I have sized it to work for Mafia Scum. Download it, then click User control panel (top left), profile tab on top, edit avatar (3d option on left).

[teacher]

I blame timezones

Another good getting to know people issue - general timezones? Im North America, and usually on late at night or early morning my time as I am limited during the school day. On experience, I have appr. 20 games, with only 1 true scum experience outside marathon or replacements. In general, Im a try-hard as any alignment.

[teacher]

Nah it’s fairly slow but weekends normally are. I think it’ll pick up in a day or two. Every game has ebbs and flows with longer deadlines.

[teacher]

I’ve had games like this and games where 20 pages have been gone opening day. This is on the slower side, but not totally outside the bell curve for my experience. Rule of thumb is RVS ends and game picks up around page (player numbers * .5)

[teacher]

this game needs more teacher

Here, sorry. Grades and comments due today!

[teacher]

I suspect scum are in the lurker pool, I can't find scum in anyone around 10 posts right now.

From the absence of newb!scum tells, Im somewhat inclined to think that there is an experienced scum in the mix. I have a townlean on you, and a null with a scum tinge on TTTT. To be honest, I think I am always leery of that slot, but I havent seen all that much game advancing from him, even after he got out of the delay pattern.

[teacher]

@ZestofLife
@zeebu

if you had to choose the most likely scum player right now
who?

I'm just waiting for this

I referenced this above, but why not play with others while you wait? Its unlike you to just sit.

[teacher]

Sorry for the poke, hopefully I'll be more active over the next few days. I guess that's the problem with having so many reactionary players - It's easier to build on someone else's post than it is to start something new.

@ZestofLife
@zeebu

if you had to choose the most likely scum player right now
who?

I'm just waiting for this

Why specifically those two? Is it for their inactivity? Arithmancer has posted less than those two, and Schia and I have been away for just as long.

i think hes asking us for our reads

mild scum lean on arith for post 54. several had already stated this (including myself) and general agreement that it probably wasnt likely to happen anyway. i dont think it needed to be said again.

sorry for the lack of posting on the weekend, i should have tried to find a computer. i spend a good portion of my weekdays tied to my desk so i expect a large jump in my activity starting now.

This is actually my strongest scumread.

First, theres a bit of oddity in the language: "I think hes asking us for our reads". TTTT's question isnt ambiguous - he is indeed asking for your reads. This line, though arguably responsive to ASC, simply strikes me as tonally off.

Second, I dont get the scum read of arith from 54, if not the others that repeated the same point. Indeed, Arith's 54 on the whole gave me town vibes, even if it was flogging a dead horse. Such was the gamestate at the time.

Third, Im curious about the appearance of an avatar different from the one provided from someone who didnt seem graphically inclined.

VOTE: Zeebu

[teacher]

you
Shiav
zeebu
in order

Vibing
Vibing
How does that one post leapfrog from scum to town while skipping the apparent entire null pile?
in order.

[teacher]

@Teacher
what do you make of Sash's TR on you?

Towny reasoning, but weak read. I can play this way as any alignment. If I were casing myself, Id point to the L-2 quick vote as possibly my towniest point, the questions are pretty NAI.

[teacher]

that's actually an incredibly townie question for a newbie to ask

Disagree. Think its more NAI site meta digging.

Speaking to my own style, I tend to question things without an apparent purpose, hoping to draw scum deeper into an issue I already have before I make the case. Somewhat akin to TTTT questioning you for reads before saying he thought your entrance was scummy.

[teacher]

he seems sort of eager to finish the first day, whether that means hes scum or has a night action, i have no idea there. probably he just wants to see the game progress.

honestly sort of a town lean though, he seems accusatory enough of basically everyone, not trying to hide at all. he also came in guns blazing saying to lynch sasha straight away. i know he was joking but still, just doesnt seem like someone trying to blend in with the crowd

1. Dont give your PR suspicions in thread.

2. Why do you say JPD is eager to finish the day?

[teacher]

Will be very interested in Arith's replacement readup.

[teacher]

Zest, comment on two players other than Zeebu?

[teacher]

In your last (and only other) game you said the same thing repeatedly.

Who else have you metadived?

[teacher]

Teacher
JPD
Schiavetto
Sashaddin
_____________
ASC
Zest
TTTT
__________
Arithmancer
Zeebu

[teacher]

You correctly interpreted it.

And yes, I don’t agree with much of what you said (for example arith is into scum range for mechanical reasons alone). Also bussing and distancing are things.

I actually kinda like your wagon except for zest who I don’t have a good feel for.

[teacher]

snip for context

Too much of a wall to try to mobile quote, but:
1. Stretch your mind on zeebu’s avi, and on the plural “us”/“our”. Where else could they have been used. Unlikely to be direct slips, sure. But lost in translation from other topics? Possibly.

[teacher]

1. there are a lot of rules here that i dont understand i guess.

No worries at all. That’s the point of the newb games.

[teacher]

he could have easily fingered some of the more obvious candidates

At this point in the game, who was a more obvious candidate?

[teacher]

It’s a fair point. I’m not entirely crazy about the target; it’s early times yet. But I’m comfortable being at L-1 and think we learn more now without me moving.

I think you’re right on ASC being a viable alt target. I don’t think Zest has been really called out, and you would be a stretch (I didn’t and don’t buy Sasha’s case.) I’m interested in their response to your logic question. I need to meta dive that slot as well to get a better feel.

[teacher]

I love cross posts

[teacher]

I don’t mind that he rejected my choice. I have questions about how he got it.

I’ll speak more on this and zeebu in general, but like I said above, I think the game is better with me where I am for now. I certainly will learn more.

[teacher]

So I am still trapped in my head with a possible TTTT-Zeebu distancing play, but am thinking thats more likely paranoia. Im also mechanically scumreading the two replacement slots, Zest more so than Arith. Two conflicting thoughts -- in the former, TTTT is scum. In the latter, he effectively becomes leading town. Tahts my problem with him across all games - I think he hasnt done anything that is out of his potential scum play, but he is playing town so far. Basically, Im just trying to figure out whether to push Zeebu or Zest.

I think Sasha and I have the same thing we are waiting on Zeebu's wagon to see. If Im right, that would go along way to answering JPD's case on Sasha for me. But I agree it cant be discussed at the moment.

Id actually love to see what developed with an intent now, but Im also fine running up Zest's slot to intent as well. Either way I should have a pretty good feel from the result. I just think intent on Zeebu advances the game more.

[teacher]

Nah. Don’t stress it atm. Standard SEish advice - just play your game. Sorry for being cryptic.

[teacher]

calling your attention to 169, with thanks.

Clearly welcome, Clarity.

[teacher]

Why not intent a scumlean who is already run up to L-1? What do you get w the vanity?

[teacher]

Question is @Clearly for why she would push a vanity over an already run up scumlean. Just some dissonance there. I got your question.

[teacher]

I still won’t speak on why I really wanted intent, but I will note that other than the continued possible TTTT associative, there has been no serious effort to build an alt wagon. I’m not going to stalemate the game, so I’m willing to build consensus. I find JPD’s Sasha case quite interesting, especially after reading some of Sadh’s history where they are definitely more aggressive and questioning as town and more like here as scum. For now, though, I want Zests slot to start playing.

VOTE: noodle

[teacher]

Question is @Clearly for why she would push a vanity over an already run up scumlean. Just some dissonance there. I got your question.

What do you mean by vanity?

Vanity is the cool talk for one vote wagon. I was wrong, though. Zeebu was there, which I had discounted as possible distancing, but should have factored in.

[teacher]

Also, in Sasha's most recent posts he mentions this 'something' not happening/not being what he thought it was. Could it have just been a deflection of suspicion over him jumping on the bandwagon? If this 'something' doesn't do whatever he thought it would, I'm going to want my question answered. I'll want to know what the something was, what he thought it could do for us and why it was worth jumping on a wagon he didn't agree with.

I will reveal my own something at or before twilight unless you want Sasha to go. Clearly I took the wagon down a notch anyway, but I’m willing to go bsck.

[teacher]

this is stupid
we now have three players waiting for "something"
but essentially doing nothing

Frustrating. It’s a solid point, but one I wish hadn’t come from you as my zeebu associative.

[teacher]

@TTTT, other than the timing post you called out, why are you so against him? What else is towning you there?

[teacher]

I asked a question a while back and would super-appreciate an answer from the players in question lmaooo

I asked a question a while back and would super-appreciate an answer from the players in question lmaooo

So now the wagon has fallen apart abit. Can you speak in two slots you suspect outside zeebu?

[teacher]

Ooooh, a double quote. Scary.

[teacher]

what he thought it could do for us and why it was worth jumping on a wagon he didn't agree with.

Some associatives or dissociative depending on the player that hammers or jumps off. Some players have bad reflexes/instincts.
I mostly agreed with the wagon, just not wholeheartedly.

This was actually not mine, but interesting. Mine was more about zeebus response and a way to get a better read on those on the wagon.

[teacher]

I don’t mind that he rejected my choice. I have questions about how he got it.

[teacher]

Thanks for noticing TTTT had asked that exact question AND had it answered before.

[teacher]

Eastern us.

Late late night early morning but addicted to phone checkups.

I have made one computer post this game. My play is evolving to be more phone based. I’m less good, but I find it fits into my life better.

[teacher]

I was pointing out the TTT had already asked me about that post, I had already answered him (161), and TTTT had already understood the answer (163).

In other words, the repeat question is either a brain fart on an effort to appear active.

[teacher]

Rather, I was thanking you for pointing that out

[teacher]

No, on this one I am not trying to be obscurantist. I just don’t get your question Perhaps?

[teacher]

I asked a question a while back and would super-appreciate an answer from the players in question lmaooo

I asked a question a while back and would super-appreciate an answer from the players in question lmaooo

So now the wagon has fallen apart abit. Can you speak in two slots you suspect outside zeebu?

Again repeat TTTT.

[teacher]

any chance of an extension to address the double replacement.

[teacher]

[quote="In post 314, teacher"]

any chance of an extension to address the double replacement.

EBwOP. Thank you for the attention though.

[teacher]

JPD is top town

Finally we start vibing?

[teacher]

can you peeps move some votes to Clarity?

I wasn’t crazy about the entry and disappearance, but what makes it worse than Zests empty slot where you previously voiced suspicion?

[teacher]

Zeebu
who are you scumreading?

Are you finally seeing some of what was missing?

[teacher]

Fair. We need to get a wagon going RTF now for activity reasons so I’ll join JPD rather than sit on my own vanity. Youe welcome to join if you want.

VOTE: Sash

[teacher]

lynchpool:
Clarity
Noodle
ASC
Sash

those top two should be priority wagons/sorts rn

@teacher
to what extent do you agree with this pool?

Pretty good. As you know, I would add one and change the order, but I I think my own views right now are less important than momentum, given the deadline and Gamestayed and weekend.

[teacher]

teacher if you're town I expect you to blow this game open this weekend

I will take the time to write up my theory but the longner the day goes on the more we are mindmelding the way we should.

Could you andwer my zeebu question or tell me where you did? I’m caught up but yesterday was a field trip to Gettysburg so I might have glossed over it.

[teacher]

Sasha has looked scummy in some posts I skimmed through but I think Sasha is mislymch bait in general.

You obviously have Meta experience. I dove then and it’s the difference from the town games that’s giving me the most trouble. So can you speak on this?

[teacher]

since he subbed in.

Total aside - comments like this are why I’m ok lynching you even though I have you on the upside of null. They tell me you’re not really following the game. Zeebu is a “replacement” but was in the game from the start (See 6

[teacher]

I think Sasha and I have the same thing we are waiting

on Zeebu's wagon to see. If Im right, that would go along way to answering JPD's case on Sasha for me. But I agree

it cant be discussed at the moment

.

Can we know what was related to me and wagon now?

As for you, it would have been your reaction to the intent - how you played it.

I don’t really want to speak on this broadly, because part of it includes scumplay advice. But, because you had indicated you were waiting for something, I expected that you would be among the first to react to intent and the following events. For me, the details of that reaction compared to my expectations of experienced players would have informed my read of your slot.

Backing up a bit, I have a pretty strong expectation of one scum on and one scum off a town wagon D1. I’d zeebu managed to convince me they were town by their response (something I considered likely), I would have been turning on you or Zest depending on your own response.

Hope that provides a partial answer without giving away the play advice.

[teacher]

@ ASC, Teacher, TTTT:
If you had to choose a lynch outside of me and Zebu, who would it be?

Im off Zebu.

Lynch preferences in descending order, but I feel that consensus more than pushes is needed
Wilky pending activity
You
Clarity

[teacher]

you didn't answer this

My bad, I saw this and it is part of what was getting me off the paranoia of you, but I appreciate the explanation as well. Yea, Im fine with that lynch and will go if needed, but I see more Im interested in elsewhere.

[teacher]

remember to address me at some point so we don't get accused of being partners~*~*~

eh youre strong lurking town. Not much to say to you. But I love the personality!

[teacher]

^
I’ll even join the list. I wanted to write last night but instead passed out. I’ll try again this afternoon.

[teacher]

Just working my way back through, but

Can we get a Zeebu prod whenever you are around

[teacher]

Teacher, zeebu and JPD are my strongest trs currently.

zeebu, Schia, teacher
-----
TTTT, JPD, Sasha
-----
Clarity, wilky

I find it interesting that you had me as one of your top TRs and now I'm null (with only 1 post inbetween and less than a full day) without you having asked me any questions or said anything about my posts. That's not entirely true actually, you have mentioned my posts but only to say you agree with them (post 337).

Is it due to my inactivity over the last couple of days? Or is it Wilky calling me his top SR?

I can understand the Wilky thing kind of as your top SR calling me scum could be seen as distancing? idk. Just trying to call out inconsistencies.

Yeah, mainly the inactivity in addition to a general reread of the thread.

Can you also speak on what jumped Schia up for you? Was it the vote on you

[teacher]

To explain the activity, it's my birthday and I'm celebrating with my sister before she heads off to Malta for a year.

Happy Happy

[teacher]

Quick reads list:

Town:
teacher, Sashaddin

Could you give me a quick overview of why you consider Sash town? I've got a history of tunneling hard so I just want a fresh set of eyes to highlight anything I may be subconsciously ignoring/misconstruing. You're late to the thread so you've got the freshest eyes of anyone

Calling out the pending question I had melded with, for when Clarity reappears.

[teacher]

@TTTT, sorry to disappoint, but Ive got no gamesolve to offer. This town better get its poop in a group. I have multiple slots not asking questions, multiple ones not answering the ones asked, and multiple ones not following up. Its one of the more disjointed games Ive been a part of.

Im willing to join most lynches. JPD, Schiavetto, and TTTT are my never lynch pile, which is normally larger than this by now. Im inclined to give Sasha a day pass despite my current vote, because my vibes are mostly meta which is weak.

Zeebu -- while I dont like how easy the wagon was to get on you, I also dont like how it stalled out at L-1. It would help if I could find ANY scumhunting in your iso -- you never follow up on 113, 166, 219. Nor do you investigate TTTT with questions or actively push him. Nor do you provide town reads. What would you say you have done to advance the game?

I already have pending questions to ASC (Schia) and Clearly (JPD's). I need something from Wilky. But those four are my ideal lynch pool.

[teacher]

Zzzzzzz

[teacher]

VOTE: Clarity/vote]

That’s L-1

[teacher]

VOTE: Clarity

That is NOW L-1

[teacher]

Quick reads list:

Town:
teacher, Sashaddin

Could you give me a quick overview of why you consider Sash town? I've got a history of tunneling hard so I just want a fresh set of eyes to highlight anything I may be subconsciously ignoring/misconstruing. You're late to the thread so you've got the freshest eyes of anyone

Calling out the pending question I had melded with, for when Clarity reappears.

@Clarity, AMA.

[teacher]

Why am I the one getting fingered for not following up when the onus should be on the person answering?

Because it makes it seem like you don’t care about the answer - that you’re doing it to “look” towny rather than actually find information. If you cared about it, you’d push for answers like TTTT and Schiavetto have both done this game.

[teacher]

I'm against lynching lurkers D1

I actually disagree w this pretty strongly. By definition, lurkers hurt the gamestate and deny information. Moreover, they’re likely to be a liability at lylo - not invested enough in the game themselves to have saving reads, and suspected enough by other slots to be a liability for losing the game if town.

In contrast, active players are spewing information regardless of alignment. That information can be better assessed after flips, so their continued presence in the game is beneficial.

Tl/dr: Lurkers are generally liabilities. Towns job Is to lynch either scum or the scummiest town, to put itself in best position for the endgame.

[teacher]

snip.

Talk on TTTT and zeebu please.

[teacher]

Your courtesy pagetop reminder that Clarity is at L-1

[teacher]

Can you also speak on what jumped Schia up for you? Was it the vote on you

@asc

[teacher]

Yes that’s the alternative. I’ve asked a couple times for a towncase from those who resisted you (TTTT and JPD more recently), but others did just let you sit as well. Also, just FYI, you can snip a part of a post by highlighting just the part you want to talk about and then hitting quote.

[teacher]

I don’t really have twilight thoughts to add. Looking forward to seeing the flip.

[teacher]

Remember one on and one off wagon tomorrow if I’m not still kicking.

[teacher]

It’s called a hammer test. Hence why I played along. It’s to get reactions from those not really following.

[teacher]

And no, Willy’s slot has to play the game.

[teacher]

bah, sorry teacher, inability to read. your vote is on shasha now.

VOTE: clearlyclarity

might as well back up what i said with a vote

@zeebu, I can’t really speak on the test since it wasn’t mine to begin with. But we REALLy need an intent and you’ve been playing all day without mechanically moving the game. Kindly intent or explain why you won’t?

[teacher]

Eh, everything changes after flips or should. Good play means constantly being willing to reevaluate based on new info.

[teacher]

Pagetop Clarity L-1 reminder.

[teacher]

Wow. Ok. Normally one waits more than 2 hours before the lolhammer. Just FYI.

[teacher]

Congrats MJL. I’m glad I was the N1 kill as I’d definitely have pushed you and think you did play quite well. My primary lesson is to the board - mechanically read slots on replacement and the degree of care with which they post. Also reread known scum for associations. Zeebu was conftown as soon as Clarity was killed. In general, there was a lack of desire to solve v. desire to play. That said, the desire to play made this quite a civil and fun room.

If anybody wants a detailed analysis, lmk - it may take a couple days since mid-term grades are tomorrow.

[teacher]

Just leave in the v= part I think.

[teacher]

also, i was ready the dead thread. @teacher what is elf defense?

It’s how an s defends itself if it is not capitalized. (Self-defense)