Newbie 1928 - The Climax - Game Over

[Ryno56]

VOTE: Formerfish

[Ryno56]

Getting scum vibes from Formerfish

[Ryno56]

Getting scum vibes from Formerfish

Oh yeah? Go ahead and vot... wait what? His vote was already on me? That's awful convenient that his rvs vote turned into a real vote.

lol what?

[Ryno56]

I agree tbh. I tend not to place much weight on initial reads but Formerfish is really standing out to me right now

[Ryno56]

Getting scum vibes from Formerfish

Oh yeah? Go ahead and vot... wait what? His vote was already on me? That's awful convenient that his rvs vote turned into a real vote.

I've already explained that this post really stands out to me as scummy

[Ryno56]

*silence*

[Ryno56]

Iconeum - first read was just a feeling. It was during RVS so there wasn't anything deep behind it

[Ryno56]

'Oh yeah? Go ahead and vot... wait what? His vote was already on me? That's awful convenient that his rvs vote turned into a real vote.'

This is so weird and seems scummy. Fish absolutely SCREAMS 'scum acting town leader' to me

[Ryno56]

So you think someone making a case against you is scummy?

This isn't what I said. Did you read my post?

[Ryno56]

I don't see any issue with making an RVS vote, then later deciding that the very same person is scummy. RVS is, by definition, arbitrary.

[Ryno56]

I've explained the Fish post several times, not sure why I need to keep going over it. People are focussing on it because it's my only content, but it's perfectly clear.

My ranking from most scummy to least scummy:

MOST LIKELY SCUM
[Formerfish]
[Redemption]
YyottaCat
Iconeum
Voted
ScreamingNoodle
Radiant Cowbells
Overkill
MOST LIKELY TOWNIE

[Ryno56]

Fish you really are a very unique person and that's why you stand out as scum to me

[Ryno56]

I cant describe it

[Ryno56]

It's like you're hyper aggressive, beyond the point of all rationality, so you just fire things out there almost at random

[Ryno56]

If the others cant see it then idk what to say

[Ryno56]

Just... calm... down...

[Ryno56]

Fish absolutely SCREAMS 'scum acting town leader' to me

Could you elaborate? Example of posts where he acts so would be nice.

It's the hyper aggression and boldness. I'll draw up some posts

[Ryno56]

These are a few things that stick out to me, but practically all his posts smell scummy to me.

'Then it looks like we need to dance early to help you see correctly. Unless you're just scum and this is how you're trying to get rid of me. Or maybe you don't mind pigeonholing people as much as you mind when it happens to you, but sure trust the read you somehow got in the first 3 pages and go with that.'

'You could start by telling me if your scummy read of me is legit or if you are using me as bait to suss out others alignment.'

'Then I can't work with you.'

'Let's try this. What do you think of redemption?'

'Let's play the fucking game?'

'And I'll point this out now, even in the game where you legit called me out as scum you didn't treat me like this. It feels a little overzealous. If you aren't scum I'd hope that this would be a game where you realize you can't read me as well as you'd like to think. Then I remember who I'm talking about and that you wouldn't care.'

'Now I need to figure out if your shit town, or scum playing the game.'

I don't mean this to be personal but Fish is brash. He speaks in absolutes, and the vast majority of his posts are him trying to force the conversation down his own paths. He is trying VERY HARD to seem like he is scumhunting. It's all so over the top that it feels forced. Sure, maybe he's just 'like this' in every game but I haven't researched him or anything. Plus, he tends to, yes, overreact...

'What is an overreaction to someone calling you something you aren't?'

[Ryno56]

'This is a playstyle issue, not an alignment issue.'

Playstyle is all we have to go on

[Ryno56]

You're ignoring the paragraph where I explain it all

[Ryno56]

Ryno, have you looked at any of my past town games? Like any of them?

Uhhh no. Why would I?

[Ryno56]

So you aren't arguing against my analysis, you're simply disregarding it?

[Ryno56]

Yes, I have Redemption

[Ryno56]

Chill out

[Ryno56]

So you aren't arguing against my analysis, you're simply disregarding it?

How can I argue against something that doesnt exist?

It literally does exist, there's a section explaining my thoughts. You can pretend it doesn't exist or isn't important to you, but those are my thoughts. Valid or not.

[Ryno56]

Yes, I have Redemption

So you think that Redemption and I are a team?

Yes

[Ryno56]

You're kinda funny

[Ryno56]

Ryno. I have a question. Why is being agressive equival to being a scum?

You're misunderstanding me. It isn't 'aggression = scum'. It's the type of aggression, the way he acts. It's more nuanced than that.

[Ryno56]

No way am I dismissive hahaha. You're very dismissive! I'm open to anything right now.

[Ryno56]

Yes, I have Redemption

So you think that Redemption and I are a team?

Yes

So him calling me out as scum, and me doing the same to him is cross bussing on day 1 with no reason for either of us to do so right now?

Redemption setting up a 1v1 of you and me is something I would let my partner do, knowing that your town flip would be my scum death?

You think that me going to Redemption is scum theater for everyone elses benefit?

Yes I believe that Redemption could be bussing you

[Ryno56]

I've played 0 games.

[Ryno56]

This is a newbie game after all!

[Ryno56]

No way am I dismissive hahaha. You're very dismissive! I'm open to anything right now.

I think refusing to admit your dismissive is the epitome of dismissive. The cogdis here is making my head hurt.

You're also being dismissive of being dismissive hahahahah

[Ryno56]

I have nothing to say in response to 121

[Ryno56]

Redemption scummy posts:

'I'd be stupid to say yes even if I was. So I'm straight up gonna say no.
I am not mafia.'

'Ikr, I'm gonna be ok with people lynching me just for that X)'

'I know that you guys suspect me because of my honesty and will probably be even more putting out that much theory so early in the game. Just know that I'm ok with it. I'm ok with the fact that it will put me in danger and cost me the game.'

[Ryno56]

I've played 0 games.

For someone who hasnt played a game on here yet, you have a set of balls to call me bold and aggressive.

pedit- this is devolving into useless interactions between you and i. If you have anything legit to discuss I'll be here, but I wont be engaging in your circular discussions anymore.

My friend, I've been trying to move away from our 1v1 but people keep dragging me back into it, you included. If you want to move on, that's great. We can move on.

[Ryno56]

Being absolved of responsibility sounds great

[Ryno56]

Just trying to have some fun my friend

[Ryno56]

I mean, having a sense of subtlety and delicacy is important as well as being very aggressive and loud

[Ryno56]

Why?

[Ryno56]

I've already said that aggressive does not necessarily equal scum, let's not repeat old arguments

[Ryno56]

I'm not going to talk about Fish any longer

[Ryno56]

No offence Fish, but if you are representative of this community then I don't want to be a part of it. You're very rude. I've never played a game of online Mafia before and yet you continue to act without any sense of kindness or respect towards me.

[Ryno56]

I genuinely cant believe what is happening

[Ryno56]

I brought up that I felt that the way you were treating me was wrong, and you dismissed it as a game move. That's very insensitive.

[Ryno56]

But whatever - I'm just not going to engage with you any more if you're like this

[Ryno56]

Ryno. Lets try this. Do you have any town reads? Who is the most towny player here?

I've already answered this. I posted a full list of reads.

[Ryno56]

I'd like to lynch YyottaCat at the moment, I think we can all agree that they aren't being helpful

[Ryno56]

Ryno, why are Radiant Cowbells, Overkill and ScreamingNoodle towny to you? I want reasoning.

Mainly because they lack anything suspicious. The others have things which make me suspect them

[Ryno56]

Is there a reason for lynching me over someone who isn't active?

[Ryno56]

VOTE: YyottaCat

I would like to request we lynch YyottaCat, who has been inactive for a long time.

[Ryno56]

How do you know that?

[Ryno56]

How long will these issues persist? Is there someone you'd rather lynch in their place?

[Ryno56]

I would have pushed Fish but no-one agrees with me. I pushed Yyotta since we're running out of time and I wanted someone we can all agree on so that it isn't no lynch.

[Ryno56]

Redemption is my top 2 scum read so yes

[Ryno56]

VOTE: Redemption

[Ryno56]

Can we get a vote count? I think that's L-2

[Ryno56]

Updated readlist:
SCUM
[Fish] - this read explained in detail, widely refuted
[Redemption] - lurking, then only showing up when he became suspected
YyotaCat - lurking and weird posts
RadiantCowbells - no solid read
ScreamingNoodle - no solid read
Iconeum - good scumhunting
Overkill - gut feeling
Voted - seems very clean, no suspicious posts
VILLAGER

[Ryno56]

Can someone explain the term 'scum!RC' ?

Also, RadiantCowbells can you explain why you can't engage or is it a personal reason? Sorry if I'm missing something

[Ryno56]

I understand - thanks

[Ryno56]

'Compliments to you, RC'

This is the weirdest thing I've ever seen

[Ryno56]

Which town role are you?

[Ryno56]

'I think he played well earlier in the day because for so much that he posted, no one could scum read him, he deserved it.'

So posting a lot but not being scum-read is a good thing? Isn't it better to have others town-read you whilst scumhunting?

[Ryno56]

'I'm surprised that no one noticed that he all got you into turboing me. He was the only one town reading me while also being the only one lynching me (starting when Voted unlynched me but I was still his first vote that he kept ever since). Then he brings up my lynch acting has didn't lynch anyone yet. He also talks much less than earlier in the day for unexplained reasons.'

I don't understand this. He town-read you and then voted you? Is that your issue?

[Ryno56]

We aren't blindly following, we are also reading you as scum. I don't find your defence to be convincing, unfortunately. Do you have someone you would rather lynch than yourself?

[Ryno56]

Sorry, I should be doing quotes properly. I'm new to this, hope that is okay with you guys

[Ryno56]

I totally support this, don't worry

[Ryno56]

This is the last thing I'll say on the subject, since it isn't relevant to the game, but is helpful to Fish in his personal life. I understand that you're trying to play the game and you think we're opposing that, but that isn't how we see it. Your online posts carry a certain tone to them which comes in a very negative way. When three different people see you as being a jerk, but you see it as 'playing on a different level', then maybe you should think a little more about how you portray yourself.

[Ryno56]

Sticking to game here - to clarify, I'm using the fact that Fish is being a bit of a jerk to justify my scum read on him, that's entirely separate from the game. My read is based off the way that he is overly defensive to small details, overly aggressive on irrelevant details, etc.

I don't think that people would stoop to using personal attacks to win as scum players, or at least, if that does happen then I don't want to be a part of it. That is outside of the game to me and I consider it immoral. I don't know where this community draws the line, or what the guidelines are, or where to find such information, but I would very much like to see it. @mhsmith0?

Redemption wants to be lynched. He has realised that he has no case, and he is hoping that in volunteering to be lynched, we will all back off (since he's assuming scum wouldn't openly offer to be lynched) . If he wants to be lynched, I say we lynch him.

[Ryno56]

Voted is saying that he encouraged I push an inactive player. I had Yyotta as a scum read so I pushed them. Then someone had a problem with it, but Voted did support my decision there

[Ryno56]

Probably scum

: Formerfish, Ryno56
I pronounced myself a lot about Fish being overdefensive and Ryno making reads depending on his "feelings" (although not as much since the 7th page).

Having a gut feeling is not scummy

[Ryno56]

UNVOTE:

Why?

[Ryno56]

Why would you defend Cat?

[Ryno56]

These are the same questions I would ask. Constructive questions.

I think we have different definitions of constructive.

(Then he criticises all of my questions)

Did RC reply? Did Ryno follow up on those hard hitting questions to get the answers we deserve?

What's so constructive about calling certain posts unconstructive? Pot calling the kettle black. We're spending too much time criticising each other's approaches to the game and not enough time actually playing it.

[Ryno56]

I admit I was hoping that RC would push Fish harded.

[Ryno56]

*harder

RC I really need you to start playing full tilt

[Ryno56]

Just to say: please don't let the clock run out before we lynch Redemption

[Ryno56]

Can someone please hammer

[Ryno56]

I dont want us to fuck up and miss the deadline

[Ryno56]

Hang on are we allowed to swear here? If not, I'm sorry

[Ryno56]

I dont want us to fuck up and miss the deadline

So you think I'm saying I'll hammer if it comes to that to string you guys along and that my plan is to not hammer?

I didnt say any of this

[Ryno56]

Yay

[Ryno56]

I've explained my reads on Yyotta/GIF, so I'm on board.

VOTE: GIF

[Ryno56]

What do you think about RC nightkill?

I guess RC was just a 'neutral' kill that was intended to not rattle too many feathers. I have a feeling the scum feel pretty secure right now.

[Ryno56]

Rattle feathers? I meant rustle feathers.

[Ryno56]

If GIF is scum, who do you think is his buddy?

FISH FISH FISH FISH FISH

I'm going to keep saying this until someone believes me

[Ryno56]

Hoping that sameone will push your biggest scumread is scummy?

What I found scummy was that he wanted someone else to go at me but refused to do it himself. This is the equivalent of someone trying to pull the strings from behind a cutout. Think about it, he wanted a townie to go after me (and yes I know my alignment so I know that a push on me was bad) with the hopes that I would in turn go against RC. This makes sense to me especially after I declared the 1v1 with RC, because if I was successful in getting RC strung up his green flip would have ended in my death today, and vice versa if I had been lynched.

I refuse to go at you myself?? We had a huge argument prior to this point. I just wanted someome else to try to convince the group that you were scum, since I seemed unable to do so.

[Ryno56]

We don't have much to go on, besides the fact that we pretty much know at least 1 scum is an SE.

How do we know this?

Because you believe that either Over or myself are scum and wanted RC dead. Since I'm town you must be talking about Over.

Why should we listen to anything you say?

What the hell are you talking about?

I think this is the scummiest post I've seen you post. Why would you try and say that I believe one thing or another and then you claiming town?

No, I had Over as neutral and you as scum leaning... but you are seeming even more scummy to me.

With RC being dead, there are 2 SEs left, Over and myself. I know I am town, so your theory is only correct if Over is scum. Therefore your theory is incorrect. You can keep up with it and eventually we will get to a point where I say something and another thing happens. When that situation occurs it will be clear how silly it is to continue scum reading me.

If you (anyone who reads this) are town, it is in your best interest to stop pushing me as scum. I am not and pushing me only hurts town and distracts from finding scum.

This entire post is completely devoid of meaning. It's just 'I am not scum' fluff that means nothing.

[Ryno56]

Care to explain it for me? Or are you just going to keep making vague statements the entire game?

[Ryno56]

No clue

[Ryno56]

Hoping that sameone will push your biggest scumread is scummy?

What I found scummy was that he wanted someone else to go at me but refused to do it himself. This is the equivalent of someone trying to pull the strings from behind a cutout. Think about it, he wanted a townie to go after me (and yes I know my alignment so I know that a push on me was bad) with the hopes that I would in turn go against RC. This makes sense to me especially after I declared the 1v1 with RC, because if I was successful in getting RC strung up his green flip would have ended in my death today, and vice versa if I had been lynched.

I refuse to go at you myself?? We had a huge argument prior to this point. I just wanted someome else to try to convince the group that you were scum, since I seemed unable to do so.

Right, you couldnt muster a mislynch on your own so you made an appeal to someone you know to be town (because you would be scum in this scenario) to go after me. If RC succeeds he leads a mislynch on me, and then gets rope the next day. If I won the 1v1, then my head would be on the block the next day.

This allowed you to push Redem, who was town, while imploring another townie to go after me who is town. Your plan had stacked mislynches already and waiting to go.

If you were lynched, and you were town, I'm pretty sure most of the responsibility falls on me for pushing you all game

[Ryno56]

If you're softclaiming then you'd better die tonight or else you're getting lynched

[Ryno56]

If you were lynched, and you were town, I'm pretty sure most of the responsibility falls on me for pushing you all game

Thats the beauty of it. You laid the groundwork for RC to scum read me, then you vote elsewhere while imploring him to go after me. Whatever happens scum wins. Either Redem is the lynch, and misses, or its RC or me which would both miss as well.

Then whatever happens can be used the next day to target someone else. Like someone would come in and say I was the counter wagon to Redem, so since I was town, we should lynch there, or RC.

Bottom line is that Redem, RC and I are all town, and you were setting us all up to take a fall at some point.

Be honest with yourself, do you think I'm that smart?

[Ryno56]

Btw the reason I dislike the softclaim is that it's incredibly easy for scum to pull off

[Ryno56]

You aren't claiming anything specific, so it's impossible to counterclaim, plus you can make up reasons for why you haven't died at night

[Ryno56]

Ico, you don't think scum would take the opportunity to definitely take out a power role?

Also, if he was protected then we'll KNOW he was protected. If he wasn't, things get a whole lot more suspicious.

[Ryno56]

VOTE: Formerfish

[Ryno56]

You haven't actually revealed that until now

[Ryno56]

What were your tracks?

[Ryno56]

I read it and can't see his information

[Ryno56]

Voted should be the other PR

You went nowhere n1, over went nowhere last night.

I figured if we had a jk they would be on Noodle and my track would be useless.

So if I take out you and over that leaves ryno and voted. One would be the pr and the other scum.

But it's probably noodle and we don't need a worst case scenario.

Is this it?

[Ryno56]

VOTE: Formerfish

Excuse me, am I here right for janitor interview?

?

[Ryno56]

Are we claiming in order or what

We need to hear from Noodle

[Ryno56]

VOTE: Screamingnoodle

[Ryno56]

This is too much fun

[Ryno56]

Noodle we gotta lynch someone and you're screaming scum to me

[Ryno56]

Heh heh heh I win again

[Ryno56]

Just won another game as town

[Ryno56]

Noodle was in that game?

[Ryno56]

We have enough info to lynch Noodle, let's keep it ambiguous between me and Voted

[Ryno56]

Well that's the first I've heard of it

[Ryno56]

lol you silly guy

[Ryno56]

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Ryno56]

Just four people left, right?

[Ryno56]

VOTE: Overkill

[Ryno56]

I am the doc

[Ryno56]

Fish you cant have tracked me making the kill since I protected you last night

[Ryno56]

Protect Voted
Protect Iconeum (saved)
Protect Formerfish

[Ryno56]

Why you protected Voted on n1 instead of RC is a question for the ages...

Yeah, to be fair I am a wizard who can predict exactly what the Mafia are going to do

VOTE: Voted

[Ryno56]

Guess we've narrowed it down to Voted then

[Ryno56]

Mafia can choose to not kill anyone at night. To not visit anyone.

Why would they do that? I don't think you have a defence right now

[Ryno56]

We're done here, I believe. Game solved.

[Ryno56]

What defence do you actually have? All you have is that 'maybe Overkill missed the night kill', but that's definitely less likely than scum simply being you

[Ryno56]

I'll save you some time: I am not changing my vote

[Ryno56]

Kill someone lol

[Ryno56]

Ryno, I'm shocked youre the doc. Like legitimately.

Hee hee, that's the point of being a PR

[Ryno56]

Some of it was for show, like towards the end as it became more and more obvious that you were town. But I did read you as scum early on, and I may have been too focussed on that read. Eh, I'm not very good at these games so no big deal

[Ryno56]

Well that was a weird game, but a reasonably fun one

[Ryno56]

If you're softclaiming then you'd better die tonight or else you're getting lynched

This has to be one of the stupidest plays i've seen. Doc says the claimed PR HAS to die, otherwise it won't believe the claim. Ryno had the unique position of validating Fish's claim. He could also have come forward with his save on me, when there was no NK. This would have given Fish 1 less player in his tracking pool.

Really? One of the stupidest plays you've ever seen? Why wouldn't the scum simply take out Fish? It didn't make any sense for them to leave a PR alive. If Fish was being coy about which role he actually was (which there is no reason for) then it's highly, highly suspicious to have him survive the night. It's better information than these dumb reaction tests, anyway

[Ryno56]

Why? Because YOU are the doc. YOU would save a claimed town PR. YOU of all people should have known that that claim would NOT die that night because YOU would save him

You're assuming his claim was valid. I had no reason to believe him or protect him.

[Ryno56]

I scumread this guy hard, and a softclaim means precisely nothing, he should have said 'Tracker'

[Ryno56]

No kill? Are you kidding?

[Ryno56]

I feel like that never works?