Newbie 1925 - Game Over

[MaryJoLisa]

Hey guys!

*reading back*

[MaryJoLisa]

Current thoughts:
ASC
-----
zeebu,

Schia

,

teacher

-----
TTTT, JPD, Sasha
-----

Clarity

, wilky

This might be why ASC is alive instead of teacher. He didn't read Schiavetto as scum.

Awww. Did this post give it away?

[MaryJoLisa]

Well that stinks. I joined the game to play with Teacher, TTTT, and Clearly Clarity. At least there's TTTT.

[MaryJoLisa]

...did Mary J. Blige just whiteflag or am I tripping?

What is whiteflag?

[MaryJoLisa]

Current thoughts:
ASC
-----
zeebu,

Schia

,

teacher

-----
TTTT, JPD, Sasha
-----

Clarity

, wilky

This might be why ASC is alive instead of teacher. He didn't read Schiavetto as scum.

Awww. Did this post give it away?

What are you trying to say here?

Here's some background on that comment:

@MJL
feel free to do your catch-up read without the flips

TTTT knows that I'd have liked to do a full read-through of the game without looking at flips. I got to about post 175 before I noticed these reveals had been quoted on this page. But that's okay! I'll just do a regular read-through knowing the outcome of D1 and N1. I got a good sampling of first impression reads on a lot of the slots.

[MaryJoLisa]

@Mary Jo Bang

Why are you doing that?

[MaryJoLisa]

I see you're up to snuff on your Mary Jo history. Impressive.

[MaryJoLisa]

VOTE: MJL
where's my ketchup?

Good grief, let me finish reading the thread!

[MaryJoLisa]

Hold on. I'm half-way through reading and commenting on the thread. I'm the fourth person in this slot. Am I understanding correctly that before I joined the game, my slot made a grand total of 7 posts? ScreamingNoodle made 0 posts?

[MaryJoLisa]

Hold on. I'm half-way through reading and commenting on the thread

I don't see any comments

I'll hit you with them all in one or two shots.

The thing I was noticing was that my slot left no notes or reads for me to find. The last game I subbed into, the slot's reads were very helpful in catching up.

[MaryJoLisa]

I'm formatting day one's review now. I'll have it posted soon.

[MaryJoLisa]

Fourth person in my slot and it’s only D2. That’s impressive. Let the record show that I asked for this slot on 4/13, but the replacement order of operations meant Screaming had the first crack at it. I’m here now, though!

Reviewapalooza Day 1 of Newbie 1925:

Spoiler: Day 1 pages 1-5

Ok, so I'm a math teacher. I won't vote Teacher because of this, and Arithmancer evidently gets a pass too.

Your status as a math teacher earns life-cred with me and I will not be voting you day 1 because of this.

I'm a Vice Principal, btw

Nice. BTW, this thread officially qualifies for the teacher discount at the movie theater.

VOTE: theASC
I'm slightly offended you think anyone could be so stupid.

I guess playing so many games in real life with people who aren't quite as... formal... has somewhat tainted my perspective of the average player.

I kinda wish someone had hammered though. That'd have to be some sort of record and I, for one, would be happy to be in the mafia hall of fame.

Although this is the kind of reasoning that could've encouraged a newbie townie to hammer. Not saying it's good reasoning, but the fact that you're thinking it implies other people could be too.

22.2% chance of fame 77.7% shame

As a mathsy person myself, I feel the need to point out from any one townie's view (i.e. the townie that goes for the hammer) it would be a 25% chance of fame, as they would not be counted in their own probabilities.

I'm the kind of person who hammers accidentally. And also on purpose. But JPD wanting a hammer is unsettling. Sounds like they don’t care which greenie they take out as long as they take out a greenie.

-general experience levels? If not your first game, give me a little self-meta?

12 games completed, only 2 as scum. I'm a lurker-answerer though I am trying to change my style to become more active. I'm usually useless for reads on Day 1, but I get sharper as the game progresses. I think Day 1 is only pure speculation without a flip.

Not *pure* speculation, no. Some of these folks come in here and lay the whole thing out D1.

Ah I missed gamestart I blame timezones
Reading through the game gives me conflicting thoughts in my head. I am seeing ASC either being paranoid town or him trying to make himself look townie (Schia mentions this in his 39).
I just don't understand the people who oppose L-1 early game, is it bad to pressure someone this way?

Hrmmmm. Not an excellent entrance, sorry.

Post edit: Oh shit. That’s my slot? That’s very unfortunate! :S

I think that the way TheASC pulled his vote on me at L-1 is town, or very crafty scum.

I just think it was RVS shenanigans.

Sorry for the poke, hopefully I'll be more active over the next few days. I guess that's the problem with having so many reactionary players - It's easier to build on someone else's post than it is to start something new.

I'm not getting reactionary vibes off people, but I'll keep an eye out for it.

this game needs more teacher

Games always needs more teacher, but this game in particular has quite a few teachers already.

Spoiler: Day 1 pages 6-10

Just had another good look through the thread, here's a summary of my thoughts. I'll probably vote later today once I've properly thought about where to go from here.

I like where this is going...
VOTE: Sash

L-1

If you vote for Sash he will be lynched
don't do this yet

do you really think town comes in here and lolhammers?

@TTTT, you understand just how unlikely it is for town to hammer yet you feel the need to specify "If you vote for Sash he will be lynched" "don't do this yet". Why? Are you doubting that people wouldn't know how the game works and would join the lynch train because they didn't know what they were doing?

Some people really wouldn’t know.
In my experience with TTTT, he doesn’t like to see people hammered quickly. He likes to sit back and absorb the game and he sets little scum-traps out for people to see who takes the bait. The fact that he told people not to lynch Sash too early is just TTTT being TTTT, but what really bothers me is that TTTT didn’t remove his own vote from Sash to prevent a hammer. So some newbie might have wandered in there and said, “Hey! Voting for Sash is the cool thing to do!” and then scum!TTTT’s hands would have been clean of that lynch.

ASC votes Sasha
Schiavetto votes Sasha
Teacher votes Sasha
TTTT votes Sasha placing him at L-1 and says, “Hey guys! Don’t vote Sasha, lol! Hope you get this message in time cause it would suck if you hammered him accidentally.”

I see what you did there, TTTT.

This is actually my strongest scumread.

First, theres a bit of oddity in the language: "I think hes asking us for our reads". TTTT's question isnt ambiguous - he is indeed asking for your reads. This line, though arguably responsive to ASC, simply strikes me as tonally off.

Second, I dont get the scum read of arith from 54, if not the others that repeated the same point. Indeed, Arith's 54 on the whole gave me town vibes, even if it was flogging a dead horse. Such was the gamestate at the time.

Third, Im curious about the appearance of an avatar different from the one provided from someone who didnt seem graphically inclined.

VOTE: Zeebu

129 above was one solid post. Allow me to sheep it. I'm still not 100% comfortable with the wagon though...
VOTE: Zeebu

L-1

Not 100% comfortable with the wagon, but pushes to L-1 anyway?

Teacher at least sees reasons and seems comfortable voting for zeebu. Why would you push a wagon to L-1 that you're not "comfortable" with, Sasha?

I'd rather a newbie replace in than another SE

This feels strange to me, why would you not want an experienced player in the game? Feels to me like you might be trying to push an easy mislynch on an inactive player.

That was not my initial impression of what he meant because I also want newbies or less experienced players to replace into newbie slots. But I think you’re noticing a trend with TTTT and I’m starting to see it too.

I'd rather a newbie replace in than another SE

This is weird.

It’s really not weird, but yeah, maybe TTTT had motivations behind that comment.

I'm SRing that slot
so no... I don't want a good scum player to replace in

Post Edit: While I now know that Clarity was scum, I can still see this as scum!TTTT wanting a newbie so they’re not as capable of seeing TTTT’s scummy machinations.

And this comment after I subbed in is now highly suspicious.

@MJL
feel free to do your catch-up read without the flips

Mmmhmmm. I see what you're doing there, TTTT.

even though tttt had been the loudest voice in my favor, i think he also stands the most to gain if i am mislynched on day 1

That could be. I won’t dismiss that possibility.

My only completed game was my first mafia game ever, so that should indicate how much experience I have with this game. Because of my inexperience I haven't fully developed my meta yet, but I know that I'm far lurkier than I should be. (For what it's worth, that completed game was a win for me )

That was a win for us! For those who don’t know the game, Clarity and I messed up the vote count and our errors led to lynching scum accidentally.

Me, ASC, Zest.
Not obvious in terms of being obvious scum, but we had all be pointed at by other people in the thread. Me by Sasha, ASC by me and Shiav, Zest by TTTT.
It's entirely possible my understanding of how newb!scum would play is flawed since I'm a newb myself but I feel like they would want to fit in/go with the flow.

This post is super town tbh

Now I’m suspicious of JPD. This is why I didn’t want the spoilers.

if pressed, a bit scummy tbh. he seems really on board with my towniness, which is nice i guess, but saying it enough starts to rub the wrong way. especially since he seems to be the only one being vocal about it right now.

he is trying to direct the action a bit, it helps to progress the game, but it seems like hes the one driving

you know what VOTE: TTTT

This feels like a bussing attempt.
I'm discontent with zeebu's posts in general tbh.

even though tttt had been the loudest voice in my favor, i think he also stands the most to gain if i am mislynched on day 1

That's true — no matter what alignment TTTT is, he gets towncred for opposing your lynch. Do you read him as scum or town, then?

Okay, right now I'm SRing either Zeebu or TTTT as Clarity's scum buddy.

Quick reads list:

Town:
teacher, Sashaddin

Townlean:
Schiavetto, JPD

Null:
TheASC, ZestOfLife

Scumlean:
zeebu

Scum:
TTTT

Need more content from players on null.

Well how about that! The two people I'm SRing are at the bottom of Clarity's read's list. I pulled this exact same stunt in my scum game to try to distance myself from my partner. The thing that bothers me is that TTTT isn't a rep-in and I can't imagine that he'd have stood behind a post like this. Reluctantly, I am putting zeebu further down on the SR than TTTT.

Okay, I'm done for the night.
Now I propose a question to all of you: What is your general read of Arithmancer's slot after reading my posts and why?

Well, it turned out you were scum.

Scum:
TTTT

why aren't you voting me?

Good question. I think it’s because you’re the chaff, but I really thought you were scum when I started reading this game.

is it fair to say that the general consensus is that one of either tttt or i are likely to be scum?

It looks that way to me.

Also, I'm not too keen on this question, considering zeebu was at the time (and is currently) voting TTTT.

My excuse here is less justifiable . I posted my zeebu analysis before my response to Schiva's post about the vote spread, so I had not fully registered that zeebu had voted for TTTT. I read the vote itself but I forgot to incorporate it in my question to zeebu's 184.

I also operated under the assumption that zeebu would flip town despite my scumreading him because I was still reeling from the result of

something I cannot talk about right now,

so I'd written my question with scum!TTTT and town-acting-scummy!zeebu in mind

. Serves me right for trying to catch up at 3am in the morning.

everything about this seems off

Nice distancing

My read on Sasha isn't a particularly strong one, certainly not something I'd consider lynching him over at the moment but that could change.

1)

Sasha hasn't done any active scum hunting. Of his 38 posts he has asked only two questions (47 and 96) neither of which I would consider helpful for scumhunting. His other posts have reiterated something someone else has already said (43, 67, 68, 138, 176 and 216).

2)

He said in post 84 that he thought the scum was in the pool of lurkers. This feels like an excuse to not bother scumhunting, especially given he hadn't even made an attempt to pressure the active players before declaring this.

3)

His logic for jumping on the Zeebu bandwagon is inconsistent. When I pressured him on it he mentioned as special 'something' that he can't talk about. I'm not a fan of this. It derails discussion as suddenly we can't ask him (or anyone else who talks about the 'something') any questions about something they've done which was kind of suspect. He jumped on the bandwagon due to post 129 which he described as "strong" but wasn't in my opnion. This 'something' better be bloody good for him to suddenly change his mind. Evidence

4)

He is very reluctant to share any information. He posted his reads list 69 and Teacher and I both had to prod to twice to get him to share his reasoning (70 and 72, 79 and 81). Even then his reasoning was either week, or still not revealed fully. It feels like he posted his reads and had to come up with reasons after the fact. This 'something' is another example of that.
Some of this is a bit of a stretch, or could just be interpeted differently but I think Sasha would be my best candidate for a lynch right now (if I wanted to lynch someone right now, which I don't). Possibly TTTT as an alternative but I don't have reasons for that beyond his play seeming off when compared to my metadive. I'll look into that a bit more and see if I can put the feeling in to words.

Sasha was not so much on my mind, but I'm absolutely stuck on this post. I’ve been starting at it for *hours* and the amount of homework I’d have to do to check all those little posts has shut my brain down. @JPD if you’re still SRing Sasha in D2, can you break this down in more digestible chunks? (says the person who posts a review *this* long)

Spoiler: Day 1 pages 11-15

Quick reads list:
Town:
teacher, Sashaddin

Could you give me a quick overview of why you consider Sash town? I've got a history of tunneling hard so I just want a fresh set of eyes to highlight anything I may be subconsciously ignoring/misconstruing. You're late to the thread so you've got the freshest eyes of anyone

Yeah, that’s unsettling. Taking note of that one.

Also, in Sasha's most recent posts he mentions this 'something' not happening/not being what he thought it was.

I thought that after my L-1 vote,

a certain player

would quickly unvote. A hammer would have been useful too I guess, but I was looking for the jump off.
Right now that wagon has been static at this state for about two days, I'll unvote myself. Time is short and we must agree on a wagon, Zeebu can still wait later.
UNVOTE: Zeebu

TRing this. I straight up SR Zeebu, but Sasha wants to work it out and be sure.

Thanks for noticing TTTT had asked that exact question AND had it answered before.

!! That’s scum!teacher !!

P-edit: Okay, it's apparently not scum!Teacher.

My first observation is that literally no one who's abbreviated my name this game has done so w/o typoing - which, um, rude tbh.

You keep calling me something totally different! Someone else did that once before and they were not nice.

JPD is top town

Slow down there, cowboy. TheASC is top town read.

can you peeps move some votes to Clarity?

Oh well. I begrudgingly concede that you made the right call here. I’ll reconsider JPD and ASC in light of new information.

JPD is top town

Finally we start vibing?

Okay, and Teacher sees it too.
Hey some reads lists from my predecessors would have been awesome!

bah, sorry teacher, inability to read. your vote is on shasha now.
VOTE: clearlyclarity
might as well back up what i said with a vote

dont mind me, waffling on who to vote for. this is probably the best way to get a deeper explanation on what sasha was waiting for
VOTE: sasha

Well that’s actually really interesting.

@ASC
why aren't you voting?

Not confident in any of my scum reads at the moment. I know I

should

vote

someone

for pressure, but I'm struggling to decide who to go for and feel like I need a large amount of evidence/reasoning before I feel comfortable voting now that we're out of RVS.
Huh. Why so struggly?

lynchpool:
Clarity
Noodle
ASC
Sash

those top two should be priority wagons/sorts rn

For the most part I agree with this. Teacher, zeebu and JPD are my strongest trs currently.

Does this feel a little sheepy to anyone else?

Spoiler: Day 1 pages 16-17

I'm gonna find teaching jobs at my school for all the teachers here
and assign you extra planning periods
so you'll be more active in your games

Current thoughts:
ASC
-----
zeebu, Schia, teacher
-----
TTTT, JPD, Sasha
-----
Clarity, wilky

@ ASC, Teacher, TTTT:
If you had to choose a lynch outside of me and Zebu, who would it be?

wilky. Neither him nor ZoL have posted much, and they posts they have made definitely don't help his cause.
I’ve read up through this point and my slot should very reasonably be in your null group. When I read this (with colors) when I subbed in, I was expecting this slot to have earned that position. I can’t make a case for scum reading my slot based entirely on turn-over.

Thought I voted in my big post a couple of hours ago.
I must have missed that. VOTE: wilky

I need to think about this because I already know that Clarity flipped red and here you are avoiding her wagon.

Been a really long day for me, worked 6am - 5.30 pm then done a 400 mile drive afterwards. I've quickly skimmed the thread and will do a more in depth post tomorrow morning.]

Checking in now. Give me a few.

Looks like it's not me promising posts later and not following through. Although I guess Clarity could've been asking for a few hours or days... Let's lynch one of those two today, I don't mind which.

Oh wow. Why would you want to lynch Wilky given the information you were working with? But on the other hand, if Clarity were your partner, I can’t see a case for you being willing to (and then ultimately) vote for her.

Yeah, you’re town. I don't think I can make a case that you're scum.

ASC, ClearlyClarity and Schiavetto shouldn't be sitting on their vanity wagons, we'e runnning out of time. Wilky should be voting too.
Vote me if you want to, we might learn something.

TOWN! (Okay, I was just scumreading you, but admittedly, this post feels very town so I'm going to keep this in mind.)

Why am I the one getting fingered for not following up when the onus should be on the person answering?

Because it makes it seem like you don’t care about the answer - that you’re doing it to “look” towny rather than actually find information. If you cared about it, you’d push for answers like TTTT and Schiavetto have both done this game.

Yup! and teacher flipped green, so I'm following this advice.

[MaryJoLisa]

Yeah, I know. I actually considered that as I was writing it. Truth is, I'm not sure what to make of you and I didn't want to completely sheep off other people's view. I should have pointed that out, though. You generally lean town for me, but there's something there that nags at me and I can't quite put my finger on it. I think I owe you another ISO read-through.

This was the pared down version, and in my original version, I'd greeted you and acknowledged that you're a teacher. Cool!

[MaryJoLisa]

I'm feeling neglected, fam.

im still wondering why you called it wasted effort, unless you meant wasted effort on mjl's side of things. it would be a bummer to spend a few hours catching up only to find yourself lynched immediately i guess.

When was it called a wasted effort? I guess I'm not familiar with "fam."

[MaryJoLisa]

Oh, I found it. Yeah, Schiavetto, why would my review be wasted effort? my slot has posted absolutely nothing of substance before I got here. Don't you want the opportunity to sort the slot?

[MaryJoLisa]

I have two hopeful outcomes for this game:
1. for zeebu to be town
2. for "ketchup" to become a thing

You really don't like the name "reviewapalooza" do you?

I thought it was clever.

I'm on mobile and/or distracted for probably the most of the evening. I'm not ignoring follow up questions, but I may fluff around until I can respond properly.

[MaryJoLisa]

Great. Now my anxiety just went through the roof. Hammering makes me nervous! You know this.

[MaryJoLisa]

You unvote. Sasha is on my list along with zeebu, so I'm not opposed to a Shasha lynch. I've got him pegged as a possible.

[MaryJoLisa]

VOTE: Sashaddin

[MaryJoLisa]

What do I do?

[MaryJoLisa]

I do nothing! Hammer's not in my hands!

[MaryJoLisa]

Don't hammer. I'm confused.

[MaryJoLisa]

UNVOTE: Sasha

I'm confused. I need to go through this again.

[MaryJoLisa]

MJL, im still waiting on an answer to my question.

Yes, I stated yesterday that I was going to be mostly unavailable yesterday evening, but I said it in a reply to TTTT so you may have missed it.

Catching up, and now I have this Sasha do-links-match-the-narrative? thing to look at.

[MaryJoLisa]

I wanted a Sash claim bc it looks like Sash softed PR twice on day1
269
407
but now can't claim PR bc his partner is dead and it would mean a counterclaim and game over

I can see how 269 is a softclaim, but can you walk me through 407?

[MaryJoLisa]

Okay, I unvoted Sasha last night because I got a case of the panics. I've reviewed the thread, and I see that you accounted for #385 being ASC's post. I thought you were trying to pull a fast one on me and I missed the correction. I also see #269 looks like a soft claim and I can see enough of a case that #407 could also have been a soft claim. If I place a vote, it's going to L-1, right?

[MaryJoLisa]

VOTE: Sashaddin

[MaryJoLisa]

334 - wilky (MJL) looking like town here with the unvote

Should be 344 not 334

[MaryJoLisa]

Uhm. TTTT?

[MaryJoLisa]

Nothing. I thought I saw something that you'd pick up on, but if you didn't pick up on it, then I was probably reading too deeply into it in the first place.

[MaryJoLisa]

Sasha made a bunch of comments after he thought he was hammered, but then claimed that he didn't realize that he wasn't hammered. It seemed like it could have been staged.

Would anyone fake that? Maybe that's too obvious.

[MaryJoLisa]

I guess you're green if you're planning on talking in the dead thread.

[MaryJoLisa]

I wasn't sure if that vote confusion thing was a gambit to get us to change our votes. Like maybe you thought you could sell us on a faked town slip. But TTTT made a good point that if you didn't get voted, scum would be able to narrow down the PR role(s).

[MaryJoLisa]

Zeebu I owe you an answer you a question that you asked earlier and I'm going to get to that today.

@TTTT RadiantCowbells usually does an all-call for tracker. Are you doing an all-call for Neopolitan? I'm not Neapolitan.

[MaryJoLisa]

also, i had originally pointed to arith's post as my first read of the game which turned out to to eventually flip red.

immediately after that post zest shot me down and started what would eventually be a wagon to L-1 on me providing a bit of defense to arith. arith bounced and was replaced by clearly. zest bounced and was replaced twice ultimately by wilky who hasnt done anything in over 5 days.

also, i dont know if this is any sort of valid information, but i was prodded once for activity. wilky hasnt been (at least not in the thread) but also hasnt been replaced yet. someone had to send in a night action. on top of that, looking at wilky's profile, he's been active on the forum and yet utterly non-existent in this game.

VOTE: wilky

I have 90% of a rather thorough answer typed up and formatted in a doc and I just realized that I may not actually be answering the question you were asking me. You wanted to know what I thought of this post, right? ^^^

But after reflecting (and wasting a bunch of time possibly SRing you for something that is probably going to end up being a misunderstanding), I think you're actually asking me to state my position on a prod. Were you SRing my slot based on Wilky's absence *and lack of mod prod* alone? Cause if that's what you're asking about, then that's really a question for the mod so you can better understand why Wilky wasn't prodded. You should get that matter sorted out with the mod directly if you think there should have been a prod but you didn't see one.

If that is not the question you were asking, please clarify.

[MaryJoLisa]

Mjl I was asking specifically knowing what we know now, was that something that you would have said from that slot

Zeebu wants to know what I think of this post.

also, i had originally pointed to arith's post as my first read of the game which turned out to to eventually flip red.

immediately after that post zest shot me down and started what would eventually be a wagon to L-1 on me providing a bit of defense to arith. arith bounced and was replaced by clearly. zest bounced and was replaced twice ultimately by wilky who hasnt done anything in over 5 days.

also, i dont know if this is any sort of valid information, but i was prodded once for activity. wilky hasnt been (at least not in the thread) but also hasnt been replaced yet. someone had to send in a night action. on top of that, looking at wilky's profile, he's been active on the forum and yet utterly non-existent in this game.

VOTE: wilky

I had to parse it down to better get to the meat of the question.

Spoiler: Parsing here

Arith's post being referenced says this:

@board-general experience levels? If not your first game, give me a little self-meta?

I've played forum mafia before this, but it honestly wasn't that good of a primer for this site - it was a lot more casual (in skill and tone).

I probably don't talk as much as I should, regardless of role. I'm the self-conscious type, so I'm a bit too worried about saying something dumb and not realizing it, especially with my lack of good experience. Hoping to use this game to improve in a serious format.

When it comes to the real game, I am a little bit freaked out by going to L-1 based on (as far as I can tell) very little, even for the sake of pressure. It seems like enabling an unnecessarily volatile situation. Not to say that someone would randomly hammer, but it doesn't make much sense to create the possibility in my opinion.

In my own words, Arith is saying that he's played the game before but that the setting was very casual. He's saying he's new here, he's feeling self-conscious, and hoping to improve his game. He's also saying that going to L-1 is probably not too wise given that the game just started. Nothing in this post raises any alarm bells, and especially not considering the post is coming from a new player.

i think hes asking us for our reads

[about Arithmancer]

mild scum lean on arith for post 54. several had already stated this (including myself) and general agreement that it probably wasnt likely to happen anyway. i dont think it needed to be said again.

sorry for the lack of posting on the weekend, i should have tried to find a computer. i spend a good portion of my weekdays tied to my desk so i expect a large jump in my activity starting now.

All I'm getting from this is that Zeebu reads slight scum lean on Arithmancer for his second post. What else am I supposed to be seeing here?

Sorry for not posting I forgot about this game (pls don't be mad at me).

Honestly this read looks weak and something which scum would post just so that they can just reply to a question (in this case to TTTT) since you bring this up only after TTTT asks you about your scumreads and not before? What makes Arithmancer's 54 any different from other people who posted on the same thing including yourself?

VOTE: zeebu

Zeebu was asked for a read and he provided one. He had two posts to work with

and used a possible explanation that Arith's absence contributes to the "weak scum" read

*. I agree with ZoL's assessment that Arithmancer's post #54 is not worthy of a scum-read. I think it should have just been NAI until Clarity started playing the game. That Zeebu saw something that tipped the scales in favor of a slight scum read at this stage of the game is not really a big deal.

*I had initially thought timing was a factor here and that was factored into my response, but I think maybe I was framing this question with information that I acquired from later in the game.

also, i had originally pointed to arith's post as my first read of the game which turned out to to eventually flip red.

immediately after that post zest shot me down and started what would eventually be a wagon to L-1 on me providing a bit of defense to arith. arith bounced and was replaced by clearly. zest bounced and was replaced twice ultimately by wilky who hasnt done anything in over 5 days.

also, i dont know if this is any sort of valid information, but i was prodded once for activity. wilky hasnt been (at least not in the thread) but also hasnt been replaced yet. someone had to send in a night action. on top of that, looking at wilky's profile, he's been active on the forum and yet utterly non-existent in this game.

VOTE: wilky

My understanding here is that Zest shot down Zeebu's Arith-is-absent-so-there's-a-small-possibility-that-he-may-be-scum post. Zeebu's scumread, since he stated it was only slight, is valid. It's his feel and he was asked for his feel.

Zest's and Zeebu's early reads on each other looks like nothing more than grasping at straws from both of them. Both are NAI, but it really bothers me that this wasn't dropped. When I originally read the posts above, I didn't think anything of it, and I'm surprised that Zeebu hasn't just let it go. And voting for Wilky is okay if the intent was to get Wilky to respond, but this wasn't a prod-vote. This was a you're-not-playing-the-game-so-I-can-safely-scumread-you vote.

Just in case timing is still a factor here:

There had to be something really defunct about my slot that 3 people consciously rejected it (as opposed to 3 people who just couldn't play the game in a game where people flake all the time), and one of those people is a seasoned vet repping into a more-or-less blank slot. Whatever it was, Wilky could have handled it skills wise.

To more accurately answer Zeebu's now clarified question:

Yes, I would defend newbscum very early in the game. I've done so on at least two occasions that come to mind. Giving a new player some latitude is just the decent thing to do until they find their footing. If you'd like to see examples of my defending newbscum as town, please review Newbie 1915, Newbie 1922, and Newbie 1924.

[MaryJoLisa]

that’s probably not a fair question I guess. It’s asking you to say whether or not you think your predecessor is scum now that you have the slot.

I’m pretty inebriated at the moment, my town had a wine and jazz fest. I’m not huge on wine but one of the breweries there was pretty good.

The first quote was about how the Willy lynch could be driven home later on since there wasn’t much on that spot at the time. And since we would get no more cop results it was something that could be saved for then.

The second one was about you hammering even though I intended to I guess. You did and then called out those who didn’t

Be out and in the moment. Drink, have fun, and don't post again until you've had a good night's rest and a cup of coffee.


You're not making a lick of sense here anyway.

[MaryJoLisa]

Shenanigans.

Also part of my thinking was probably me pointing out ariths post then being ok with it. I know I backed off it at some point though, but the game is making me feel totally invincible or something. I’ve said a bunch of stupid stuff and neglected to say many smart things. I’m honestly impressed I’m still alive. It’s a fairly weak argument but with that question I’ve tried to point out I was immediately trying to vs a dude that ended up scum. I dunno, it might be a while before I sign up for another game on the site. I don’t see it going great for me tbh

Why don't you see it going well for you? I mean even if you bungle up a game and everyone's cool at the end and we have some nice post-game laughs, then why not sign up for another and try to have some more fun and grow your game skills a little?

[MaryJoLisa]

Woah. I missed that. How the hell did I miss that? JPD cleared TTTT?

[MaryJoLisa]

Shenanigans.

Also part of my thinking was probably me pointing out ariths post then being ok with it. I know I backed off it at some point though, but the game is making me feel totally invincible or something. I’ve said a bunch of stupid stuff and neglected to say many smart things. I’m honestly impressed I’m still alive. It’s a fairly weak argument but with that question I’ve tried to point out I was immediately trying to vs a dude that ended up scum. I dunno, it might be a while before I sign up for another game on the site. I don’t see it going great for me tbh

Why don't you see it going well for you? I mean even if you bungle up a game and everyone's cool at the end and we have some nice post-game laughs, then why not sign up for another and try to have some more fun and grow your game skills a little?

Oh I’m pretty sure I’m not quite good enough or perceptive enough yet. I’ve been town the whole game and I immediately gained attention to myself and I still don’t realize why. The only reason I’m still in the game is because I play a very convincing clueless person. The fact that it’s turned out to be true is great, but I still don’t know how to play. If I play a few more games I’m bound to eventually get a role of consequence. Im afraid of that part.

It's just a game. We're in the newbie boards, so don't worry too much about messing up or not being perceptive enough. If the seasoned players want an aggressive game with highly skilled opponents, then this wasn't the place and they knew this wasn't the place.

You just keep playing to the best of your ability and try to figure out the game. If anyone gives you grief for that in the newbie area, then the problem is probably with them and not you.

[MaryJoLisa]

Maybe my long term strategy is to pull on folks heartstrings. Does that ever work?

no. They'll just scumread you for it.

[MaryJoLisa]

Haven’t died yet, so that’s a plus though.


Maybe this game I am just trying to ply dumb so I turn up town and there can’t be a solid read on my meta. From what I gather meta means a persons previous games

Meta is a person's previous games, yeah.

It feels like you are begging me to vote for you tonight, but I refuse to do so until you're sober.

[MaryJoLisa]

I don't want to lynch either of you two

Why not? I was going to make this whole scum case on zeebu. I was just waiting until I was sure he's had some good sleep and a cup of java to clear his head.

[MaryJoLisa]

MJL how you feeling about this game?

I'm having fun. It's a good group and that makes all the difference for me.

[MaryJoLisa]

MJL how you feeling about this game?

I'm having fun. It's a good group and that makes all the difference for me.

Even me? I’m feeling the love

Yeah, even you. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'll still string you up and lynch you if I catch wind that you're scum (and really I already have, but I'll bide my time for now).

[MaryJoLisa]

MJL how you feeling about this game?

I'm having fun. It's a good group and that makes all the difference for me.

Even me? I’m feeling the love

Yeah, even you. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'll still string you up and lynch you if I catch wind that you're scum (and really I already have, but I'll bide my time for now).

I’ve already embraced the fact that everything I say gives off the scum vibe. There isn’t anything I can do to really defend it at this point. I’m just going to keep saying scummy things but as wholesomely as possible

You should keep trying not to say scummy things until at least tomorrow.

[MaryJoLisa]

First things first...
I'm confirmed town based on JPD's first post of day2
if we have a Neapolitan and they have at least 1 Vaniila result on a player

other than me

they should claim Nea and out results and the game is solved by lynching in the remaining two players

Okay, I see it. Took me a little while to get there. It's not a claim that can be seen plainly without a PR flip, but then it becomes clear in the context of a green PR flip.

[MaryJoLisa]

@TheASC, if you've answered this already, I apologize. How much experience do you have playing a game like this?

[MaryJoLisa]

@TTTT and @Schiavetto, to accept that theASC is scum, I have to accept that he bussed his partner for the D1 lynch. Is that likely? He was late on that wagon, but he was earlier on the D2 wagon.

[MaryJoLisa]

MJL how you feeling about this game?

I'm having fun. It's a good group and that makes all the difference for me.

How rude of me! Thanks for asking, TTTT. How are *you* feeling about this game?

[MaryJoLisa]

How rude of me! Thanks for asking, TTTT. How are *you* feeling about this game?

not great
I haven't locked in any of you as town at this point

When you originally asked the question, Zeebu and I were in a conversation about enjoyment, so that's how I answered. With a little reflection, I realized you were probably asking about the game state.

i've got you locked in as town, TTTT!

[MaryJoLisa]

I'll start:

If I am a Neapolitan or Tracker I do not have an innocent result outside of TTTT

I've already said that I'm not a Neapolitan, so I'll add to that and confirm that I'm also not a Tracker with an innocent result outside of TTTT.

[MaryJoLisa]

I'm having some trouble finalizing my case on zeebu because I've stopped thinking zeebu is scum. I want to vote either Schiavetto or theASC in that order, so I'm going to place my vote here pending further discussion and analysis.

TTTT you found Schiavetto's hammer votes suspicious and you also found theASC's tendency of jumping on wagons instead of starting them suspicious. Which behavior is more suspicious?

VOTE: Schiavetto

[MaryJoLisa]

I'm having some trouble finalizing my case on zeebu because I've stopped thinking zeebu is scum. I want to vote either Schiavetto or theASC in that order, so I'm going to place my vote here pending further discussion and analysis.

TTTT you found Schiavetto's hammer votes suspicious and you also found theASC's tendency of jumping on wagons instead of starting them suspicious. Which behavior is more suspicious?

VOTE: Schiavetto

@TheASC you and zeebu haven't moved from my top two SRs. His daystart wasn't pretty--if you do flip green, zeebu's next on the chopping block for me. VOTE: TheASC

@MaryJoLisa I would love to hear your reasoning for the TR on zeebu.

In my vote above, I didn't say that I was TRing zeebu, I said that I stopped thinking of him as scum. You asked me for TR justification so I went through my notes to look at zeebu again, framing his actions as town motivated. I find myself having trouble doing that but it may be a few hours before I can post up my full justification so we can discuss what I see.

UNVOTE: Schiavetto

[MaryJoLisa]

"With 5 players alive it takes 3 votes to lynch."

WTF just happened?

1) zeebu 2) Schiavetto 3) TTTT

???

[MaryJoLisa]

What happened to L-1, and intent to hammer?

[MaryJoLisa]

Well, I feel pretty silly spending all that time building a case to SR zeebu. i might have changed some minds!

[MaryJoLisa]

I guess not. I think you were clear about Schiavetto. I SR zeebu more than Schiavetto, but I'll think about that more if I make it to D4.

[MaryJoLisa]

See I was starting to think that whole conversation with zeebu starting in 686 might have been appeal to emotion. I thought his line of questioning was weak and designed to focus on slot absence and ZoL's newbishness to set up a mislynch. I thought he was kind of backpedaling on his stance when I gave him pushback and he didn't have a decent counter argument.

[MaryJoLisa]

That's not unexpected given the circumstances. I'm leaning toward zeebu. I also don't want to be the hammer vote, so I'm going to place this here so Schiavetto can either do the honors or choose to ask me for justification for my logic.

VOTE: zeebu

[MaryJoLisa]

What do you mean "cross?"

[MaryJoLisa]

Agreed

I was about to point that same thing out but had to put the kiddo to bed first. Feel free to scum read me for saying it I guess but here we are.

Only scum put their little ones to bed. Bet you read them a story too.

Such a scum move.

[MaryJoLisa]

UNVOTE: zeebu

Need to mull this over.

[MaryJoLisa]

UNVOTE: zeebu

Need to mull this over.

Why in the world would you unvote me? If schiavetto were mafia an insta hammer on me would have ended the game. You unvoting me just means you suspect him.... which is silly at this point since if he was mafia he could have won already

Cut me some slack, I'm drinking beer! I'm confused.

[MaryJoLisa]

I am drinking again too! Last time it went well, I posted a bunch of inane things but still survived. I think you messed up assuming I would be easy to keep in your back pocket for a late game lynch. I don’t think it’s working out

But I didn't roll scum this game.

[MaryJoLisa]

Yeah. I'm satisfied.

VOTE: zeebu

[MaryJoLisa]

So I've made my choice. Tomorrow at 6am EST, I'll be casting my vote. Before that happens, though, I've got some questions--and I'm the kind of girl who likes her questions answered

@MLB:

1) Hi! How are you?

I'm okay, thanks, and you? I don't envy you holding the hammer. I'm experiencing sympathetic anxiety on your behalf.

2) How are we feeling?

I think you mean to ask how I feel about the game? I feel like zeebu is scum. I can make a SR case for zeebu, but I have difficulty making a TR case for him. I see the distancing between Clarity's slot and zeebu, and I noticed the tracks he tried to lay to accuse my then empty slot to take the fall.

3) What do you think has been your most incriminating moment this game? Talk to me about it.

My own personal scummy thing could be seen as my review post. Sure, I could fake my reactions to try to paint a certain picture, but I guess I could do that real-time anyway. I did notice my slot's predecessor having a scummy entrance and I did point it out. That could be taken as me trying to get ahead of the scumminess.

[MaryJoLisa]

Respond to zeebu, eh? Okay.

Hi zeebu! I read your post. I think you played a great game this game. Really. I was glad to see that you /in'ed into the newbie queue for another go. I'm not a *good* player persay, but under the right conditions, I'm fun to be around. And you seem fun to be around. Whatever happens, this has been a very enjoyable game to sub into. Everyone has been friendly, light-hearted, and apparently some of us read stories to our kids to put them to bed. Me? I'd give them an iPad. That makes you a better parent than I would be!

[MaryJoLisa]

Does a 16-month old not understand how to select books for themselves on an ipad?

Do you drive your kid around to get them to sleep?? That's adorable!

[MaryJoLisa]

Thank you for hosting, @Micc. That was a really tough game for me.

[MaryJoLisa]

I did it, Clarity!

[MaryJoLisa]

Well met, @Zeebu, @Schiavetto, @theASC, and @JPD. You were all a pleasure to play the game with. Everyone was great. This was a really good group of players. <3

[MaryJoLisa]

Congrats MJL. I’m glad I was the N1 kill as I’d definitely have pushed you and think you did play quite well. My primary lesson is to the board - mechanically read slots on replacement and the degree of care with which they post. Also reread known scum for associations. Zeebu was conftown as soon as Clarity was killed. In general, there was a lack of desire to solve v. desire to play. That said, the desire to play made this quite a civil and fun room.

If anybody wants a detailed analysis, lmk - it may take a couple days since mid-term grades are tomorrow.

I took your lessons to heart, @teacher.

[MaryJoLisa]

Thanks, Clarity! I worked hard for that win! And you worked hard too! As a non-communicating team, we were awesome!

[MaryJoLisa]

sorry town
I'll take the blame for this loss
I screwed up by:
not insisting day2 on lynching zest's slot when I'd been SRing the slot all day1
and forgetting the implications of this

Yeah, I had to minimize that post. That was a bad post for my case.

[MaryJoLisa]

@Schiavetto, you are an absolutely terrifying opponent. I hope to have the chance to play another round with you, but next time on the same team.

[MaryJoLisa]

i think i played not that well. learned a lot for going forward though

I thought you played very well. You left me some openings to get a foothold on, that's true, but that's still okay! Your game was fine. So was @Sasha's.

[MaryJoLisa]

You did great MJL!

I'm just so glad no one called for my pinkie fingers. That would have been disastrous.

[MaryJoLisa]

Take them! They are yours.

[MaryJoLisa]

also, i was ready the dead thread. @teacher what is elf defense?

It’s how an s defends itself if it is not capitalized. (Self-defense)

haaaa, yes. i can see this now. i was confused, i even went to the wiki and looked up elf defense (it did not give me any useful results)

omg! I do stuff like that all the time! It's hard to distinguish what's local lingo, what's regular internet lingo, and what's just a typo! I have a pretty big learning curve as it is, but these little things really throw me off course.