Newbie 1933 | Stuff I Found Online XII | Over

[RCEnigma]

Dibs VOTE: zeebu

[RCEnigma]

Forgot to check back on this and I missed out on a poetry slam.

Anyways I have reads already, some of which I'll ride to endgame. Well, one of them anyways.

[RCEnigma]

If I can add to your suggested reading TTTT, salad, voted, and I have a completed newbie game in which we were all town and I believe voted has a recent completed game as scum. I'm not sure on that though, I haven't read through it.

[RCEnigma]

zeebu and eggs are town. =)

What's up saladman, how we feeling? What do you think about eggs and his entrance? What do you think about Zeebu calling your opening forced?

[RCEnigma]

It's your read, convince us.

[RCEnigma]

zeebu and eggs are town. =)

What's up saladman, how we feeling? What do you think about eggs and his entrance? What do you think about Zeebu calling your opening forced?

Eggs' intro was kind of weird but all Intros are. Eggs himself? I TR him for now. First of all My opening wasn't the one Zeebi pointed out. Second, that post wasn't intended to sound lurkish, I'm just trying to avoid being mislynched for making little to none posts and there weren't much questions to answer for me then.

Alright follow up. Why do you think eggs is town?

[RCEnigma]

Salad is town

He's already had more presence than the game we played with him so for all intents and purposes this is not indicative of his town meta. What makes him town this game?

[RCEnigma]

I think grand slam is townish by proxy of tttt being scum.

[RCEnigma]

I find him playing this weird game where he doesn't really have to interact as opposed to just dropping arbitrary statements like his salad read.

I felt like eggs entrance was one of the better ones despite TTTT tagging a second vote along stating otherwise. There's the weird vote sharing going on between you two that may be nothing but hard to tell yet. The way he left his egg vote which he had as above rand in favor of sham leaves egg open to push later. He technically didn't townread eggs, just thought someone else was scummier.

Not wanting to post until all slots show up isn't really scummy, more like a poor way to approach the early game. Early interactions are pretty crucial/informative.

I don't like that he's given salad the benefit of the doubt off one post but won't actually keep salad engaged with the game despite knowing how playing the game around salad and not with him in his debut game was against towns best interest.

[RCEnigma]

So like, everything he's done has rubbed me the wrong way.

[RCEnigma]

We've only played together once.

[RCEnigma]

Ahh loop is you, we didn't play that game together I don't think. I never would have made that connection though.

[RCEnigma]

When TTTT pulls his vote we can be friends again. Promise.

[RCEnigma]

I lied
I looked
we have one completed game together
and another with me as Loopdan
and an unrevealed number of games with me as various alts
I'll concede the point

Have we ever been scum together or you were scum against me?

[RCEnigma]

So far a bunch of weak reads, I'm not locking any of these in but zeebu is by far the closest to decided for me.

Townish: Zeebu
Null to town: URAP, Voted
Null: Saladman, ZestOfLife
Null to scum: RCE, TTTT
Scummish: Grand Sham

If you want my reasoning on any of those please ask.

Talk to me about the Zeebu read then.

[RCEnigma]

Lol salad I love you.

[RCEnigma]

27 was about a townread on eggs. I can't fault TTTT for rvsing my first townread before they became my townread.

But I might have anyways.

[RCEnigma]

When TTTT pulls his vote we can be friends again. Promise.

Can you please explain the thought process behind this post.

Not yet.

[RCEnigma]

It's a good tell, and the one I thought you were hinting at. However I mostly see it with one-off statements to blend.

[RCEnigma]

I think grand slam is townish by proxy of tttt being scum.

imagine I'm not in this game
and tell me your thoughts on Slam in that context

In a bubble I'm conflicted on Sham. I think the omgus vote is highly town indicative for a first time player. "People pushing me have to be scum." Isn't a natural reaction for new scum.

[RCEnigma]

If he does I would be happy to pull mine. Are you also voting with TTTT, Enigma?

But then immediately follows with this post implying the opposite.

[RCEnigma]

So I have a current town block of myself, eggs, urap, salad that I think is pretty solid but is still only 4 slots and not poe'able. I tend to have pretty spot on early suspicions I end up talking myself out of but I'm convincing myself TTTT is scum more and more.

I don't really want to get into preflip associatives but I think I have a general idea of who the partner would be and I find them both individually scummy.

Anyways, TTTT's responses aren't convincing me he's town. For one he's fine with the apathy it seems, and allowing the new slots to lead the game. It's alarming for me specifically considering the game we played with voted and salad could have easily been derailed for the same reasons and was a critical point touched on post game.

I intentionally attempted to create a conflict with TTTT, somewhat like an aggression check that he immediately backed off of instead of pressing my motives. Forcing a 1v1 early probably would have been a good topic of discussion a level above rvs discussion.

The more that slots are forced to make a hard stance and pick a side the better for town to snuff out actual intentions. But he won't be pressured if the issue isn't pushed so
VOTE: TTTT

[RCEnigma]

He's saying that Grand Sham voting TTTT thinking he's scum (because he voted a townie and scum vote townies) is towny from a new player perspective.

But then Grand Sham says that the scum read isn't real and the vote will therefore be pulled once TTTT unvotes i.e. it was purely a defensive vote.

thats what it seems like, but i still want to hear it from RCE. just felt like there was more meaning behind it.

Townies tend to reaction vote slots that are accusatory of them and I would have townread it outright if Sham didn't flip the thought process in the very next post.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: Alexander

[RCEnigma]

Well, you've seen how salads first game went. What do you think of his participation compared to that game?

Also Sham has been on the back foot since he replaced in, much like you were your first game. Does that experience resonate with you at all?

[RCEnigma]

Regarding Alexander indecisiveness on the popular wagons is a newbie scum tell. At the time I was also voting TTTT where Alexander planted his vote but didn't commit either way so he's able to pivot to either wagon. Think of it as him having a vote on both.

Which makes me think his partner is offwagon and they were waiting on 1 more townie to vote to push either mislynch through.

That grouping is myself, eggs, Zeebu, voted, salad.

I hard townread myself, don't think I'd ever lynch there and I townread eggs. So on a red flip Zeebu, voted, salad pool probably wins the game.

So Alex' indecisiveness, why can't it be town you ask? Well I guess it could be unsure town but unsure town would probably hold a vote till pressed. Nee scum generally don't want to make an enemy of anyone so even being on the outside looking in would likely gravitate towards the popular reads to minimize any conflict.

[RCEnigma]

Which makes me think his partner is offwagon and they were waiting on 1 more townie to vote to push either mislynch through.

Note of caution - seems like SE thinking. I'm not sure I'd have played like this as first time scum. In my head I think I might have tried to plant a vote earlier and let town lynch themselves rather than having the second scum jump onto/intent an L-1 wagon to force something through.

Maybe with the benefit of Mafia thread discussion, dunno, but I think the hammer is the last thing I'd want to be.

I can see one scum being off the wagon as a precautionary measure but not so much as a trap waiting to pounce which seems to be how you're presenting it.

Fair actually. That's probably more in line with safe game play.

[RCEnigma]

Flex that green role pm on them sham.

[RCEnigma]

Alex explain your reads a bit. Why is Zeebu your top town? Why are tttt and sham your top scumreads? What did they do that was scummy?

[RCEnigma]

Sham can I interest you in changing wagons? I don't think TTTT happens today with Urap townshielding him. I see you still have suspicions towards voted. Unless you catch something damning it may be better to focus on your next read and just keep TTTT as a fos* for now. I say this with the firm belief that TTTT and Voted are not scum together but that doesn't rule either one out from being scum individually.

Ideally I'd like people to get on board with the Alexander wagon sooner rather than later.

Sham I know you haven't finished reading up but I have a couple questions when you get caught up.

[RCEnigma]

Oh, before my break is over, q couple non game specific questions. You said you played WW but never mafia, is that just forum mafia? Never played on similar sites like town of Salem or epic mafia?

[RCEnigma]

I see, I've heard about throne of lies and watched a game or two but never played. Personally I wouldn't call it guesswork, day 1 sure. Town starts with no information but that's what this whole day is about, information gathering to make informed decisions and deductions.

Everything in this thread is fair game, there's info in who defends who and why, who voted what player and when, who ignored who. It all has meaning. If you're interested in things like game theory, scum/town tells, etc there is a wiki with a ton of information about the game.

[RCEnigma]

(post)post# here(/post) with brackets instead.

[RCEnigma]

I have looked several times for the post where TTTT made a reference to that 'legit tell'. Maybe you could point it out for me?

This is a valid tell for the newbie queue specifically. TTTT didn't explicitly state this was the reason for his vote but it's implied and I buy it.

[RCEnigma]

I'm also open to the idea that Enigma might be scum posing as good as he was the first to come to my defense and has, as I recall, been Sham friendly since. That could very well be scum making friends with the new bloke in an effort to hide.

I've put you as town sure but I've waffled with the read multiple times. The post URap made about your IIOA was accurate, which is also a scumtell. But I think there are more nuanced things from you that more often come from town.

Also like you questioning if I'm pocketing you or not. I probably am, it's working though don't worry about it.

[RCEnigma]

page top!

Super secret scum take! I think Voted is actually scum for the chainsaw going on in 201 but I'll get a better read on scum that does post compared to scum that doesn't. So Alex' over Voted.

[RCEnigma]

@Voted
I know all you want is to talk about eggs
I'll share my thoughts on eggs if you share your thoughts on Sham
deal?

I am sorry, but I would like to refuse your generous offer; I want to give place to Salad/ zeebu/ Sham to share they opinions about Eggs so they contribute same interesting posts. Salad/ zeebu/ Sham,

do you also think that Eggs is faking his activity so he seems towny?

This might just be a wording thing but the bolded is actually really weird in that post considering I can't find any other mention of Eggs' activity.

[RCEnigma]

Don't know how I feel about voted immediately springing up as Alexander's counterwagon. Kind of takes a dump on my voted +Alexander theory.

[RCEnigma]

What do I think of the idea that you're a team with Alex? I think that I can't be both, scum and town.
What do I think is making Enigma consider this? Because he reads us both as scum. And I defended Alexander.

You defended Alex whom you still have as a null read. Which is weird to do for a slot you don't have a read on, that's what null would mean. I find it scummy for the timing of your vote (just as Alex was gaining pressure) it would fit that a partner would try to swing a wagon away from him in favor of someone else.

Side point regarding the wagons (myself, Eggs, Urap.) All considered town by the majority of the playerlist. Now that voted has backed off eggs I don't think any one of us is scumread by anyone or they haven't said as much. However a counterwagon popped up to oppose the wagon the majority townreads are pushing. Which I find interesting.

[RCEnigma]

You the man.

[RCEnigma]

Is that to me? I didn't make any of those points against you.

[RCEnigma]

Do you think Alex would be a mislynch?

[RCEnigma]

I'll sink my teeth Into this after the extended weekend. For now all I can think of off the top of my head is that Zeebu and tgs aren't together.

Alexander's town flip kind of leaves me reeling but at the very least a PR didn't have to be used on a lynchbait slot.

[RCEnigma]

also if you have an inno or guilty
I'd advise you slowplay

Ahh dammit, I knew you were scum.

[RCEnigma]

I regret letting myself get talked out of your lynch.

[RCEnigma]

So, TTTT alignment slipped. Legit alignment slipped.

[RCEnigma]

not sure how giving advice to slow play any reveals is AI
but you do what you gotta do

This is more about your phrasing assuming that we are in a cop setup or at the very least implies there is 0 chance we're in A2.

The certainty sounds like it comes from an informed pov and that scum likely has a rolecop that just found an investigative.

[RCEnigma]

Slow playing an investigative doesn't really matter, we're massclaiming before the day ends. Best case we get 2 clears AND a 50/50. Worst case urap was the clear and we still get a 50/50.

[RCEnigma]

While we’re at it, may I ask RC, why did you first voted for Alex?

I initially thought 163 was scum posturing to jump onto the more probable wagon (TGS).

[RCEnigma]

This is my first time being on the town side of a mass claim so I'll give some thought to the best claim order probably this afternoon/evening.

[RCEnigma]

TTTT I expect a solid reason for the D1 hammer after the claim at the latest.

he was on L-1 with intent
I'd posted (297) that he needed to claim in his next post or I'd hammer
he logged into the site but didn't post
he was about to be replaced
when I'm confident we've caught scum I don't need a good scum player replacing in and escaping a lynch with their seductive words
^that was my reasoning at the time

Ok stop saying town things please.

Gahhhh why am I like this!!!!!!!

[RCEnigma]

I'm pretty confident on RCE as town. And apathy is killing this game.

[RCEnigma]

If it was as easy as VTs claim first It would be great but I don't have a great order for claims. I'd base it off my scumreads but not the best policy I think.

[RCEnigma]

I've been back and forth on tttt I think there is scum equity but he has specific posts that ping town. Like his response to the hammer, I was confident on Alex flipping scum for the same reason. I figured he hadn't posted after checking the site because he was caught scum struggling with what he should be doing or saying.

[RCEnigma]

Popcorning is generally how it's played out. I don't have a problem with it.

[RCEnigma]

Yes. There was a 2 day or so gap between intent being posted and when he finally logged on and that was either the day before or the day of the deadline. I checked those 3 days pretty frequently since I didn't really know if he siteflaked or was just avoiding the thread. This was the only game he was in though.

[RCEnigma]

I think Sham claims first here
then popcorn

Not opposed. I'd actually like voted to claim second but I think it's fine.

[RCEnigma]

Oh voted is dead. I forgot we speedran day 2.

[RCEnigma]

Man town is headed towards a loss and I think all three SEs are probably town because I'm bad.

[RCEnigma]

I'll reread the game at some point. Right now things that are on my mind:

Day 2 wagon has scum on it confirmed but I don't know who has been on both wagons. TTTT had no part in the day 2 wagon so taking him out of the suspect pool for now.

Zeebu targeted both Alex and voted, arguably easily mislynchable slots however let others spearhead the pushes (myself on Alex)(salad(?) On voted) here's where I admit I don't know much of what happened day 2 obviously.

But salad had reason to vote there going into the day and probably more so going into day 2 with Alex flipping green.

TGS' wagon broke down with me defending them and then both counterwagon ended up on town. Scum hasn't pushed me for defending tgs at this point, no conclusion there just interesting. If he flips red at any point I probably end up the Lynch the following day with that in mind.

[RCEnigma]

Zeebu did you come from ToS by any chance? I asked TGS but not you I don't think.

[RCEnigma]

Hmm, interesting already. Look forward to the rest of the catch up.

If any VT wants to start the massclaim that's fine too btw. So we aren't waiting on a full catchup to start massclaim with > a full day to get through it and make a decision.

[RCEnigma]

Hmm, what makes you think Zeebu is town and can't be scum with anyone else?

[RCEnigma]

Is it a developing read? I'm not sure how caught up you are atm.

[RCEnigma]

Fair, what was the townread for initially?

[RCEnigma]

Probably town despite my paranoia.

[RCEnigma]

I'll explain where I'm at with everyone post mass claim.

[RCEnigma]

VT.
TTTT

[RCEnigma]

I am confirmed townie from now.
We are either playing 2A(Zeebu is telling us the truth) or 2c (he fakeclaimed)

There is 0 reason a PR should have claimed VT and Jk/Doc are the only two PR claims.

[RCEnigma]

Zeebu is confirmed town fypov. You would have saved the kill on him N1.

[RCEnigma]

I thought there was no jk in C setups.

[RCEnigma]

Keep in mind a mislynch still gives a chance for town to win but we won't know the jailkept target. No lynching or gambling on A2 has the best odds for a town win.

I'll have to think on it.

[RCEnigma]

If we're in 2a scum is 2 of {RCE, TTTT, Salad, (me)} so either they're banking on us going for zeebu or they're happy with a 50-50 chance. If one the roleblocker flips it's game over, otherwise zeebu dies and jk can't confirm anyone.

Not worried about a confirm. If the killing scum isn't jailed or the nk target the game is over on a mislynch. This is Mylo.

[RCEnigma]

though i am interested to hear the reasoning on TTTT's hammer without claim.

Push TTTT on the basis it's kinda scummy, or just let it lie.

you arent the boss of me.

i wanted to know whether there was anything actually there or if it was mainly a product of time running out and stagnation

Day 2 was a dumpster fire. But I don't think this is an interaction between doc and the slot that you think is a confirmed save.

[RCEnigma]

RCE would know the only 2 possible setups were 2A and 2C if he was scum, especially if he was with zeebu.

Not necessarily, I just don't pay much attention to the setups.

[RCEnigma]

I mean, if goon flips game isn't over because jk can confirm someone before dying. If RB flips town win.

If Zeebu flips goon then there is no RB because there is no doc.

[RCEnigma]

Official Vote Count 1.06

“So,” he said, “you get stuck.”

“Then you have to stop,” Wiles said. “Let your mind relax a bit…. Your subconscious is making connections. And you start again—the next afternoon, the next day, the next week.”

Patience, perseverance, acceptance—this is what defines a mathematician.

“What I fight against most,” said Wiles, naming an unlikely enemy, “is the kind of message put out by—for example—the film Good Will Hunting.”

When it comes to math, Wiles said, people tend to believe “that there is something you’re born with, and either you have it or you don’t. But that’s not really the experience of mathematicians. We all find it difficult. It’s not that we’re any different from someone who struggles with maths problems in third grade…. We’re just prepared to handle that struggle on a much larger scale. We’ve built up resistance to those setbacks.”

The State of Being Stuck is an article about how as adults we're really uncomfortable with getting stuck, but getting stuck is an important part of the process of solving maths problems. It is based on a conversation with Andrew Wiles, not the one who is my cat but the one who solved Fermat's Last Theorem.

---

Lynching

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

The Grand Sham

(3): TTTT, u r a person 2, Eggs

TTTT

(3): The Grand Sham, Alexander489, RCEnigma

Eggs

(1): Voted

u r a person 2

(1): zeebu

Not Voting

(1): Saladman27

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-05-24 22:00:00).

Mod notes:

Keep it fun!

So my only solid argument for TTTT being scum is this vote on TTTT being 2 confirmed town + myself whom I know to be town. Zeebu, eggs, and salad all stayed away from the wagon and from a new scum perspective it would have been a nice mislynch to have if he were town.

[RCEnigma]

I mean, if goon flips game isn't over because jk can confirm someone before dying. If RB flips town win.

If Zeebu flips goon then there is no RB because there is no doc.

If Zeebu flips doc we immediately lose.

The game isn't over on a town flip since a kill can still be prevented.

[RCEnigma]

though i am interested to hear the reasoning on TTTT's hammer without claim.

Push TTTT on the basis it's kinda scummy, or just let it lie.

you arent the boss of me.

i wanted to know whether there was anything actually there or if it was mainly a product of time running out and stagnation

Day 2 was a dumpster fire. But I don't think this is an interaction between doc and the slot that you think is a confirmed save.

Yes, It's not like Zeebu is calling Eggs scum here though it doesn't look like he saved eggs.

No one called anyone scum day 2 besides voted. I don't think I even got a post in day 2.

[RCEnigma]

I would get roleblocked and killed in that setup.

Yea, we sit through another night phase is what I mean.

[RCEnigma]

Scum didn't really need a fakeclaim since there was no cop claim.

[RCEnigma]

I thought earlier TTTT was setting up for scum to claim investigative but I backed off that read so I don't really remember my thought process behind it at the time.

[RCEnigma]

Scum aren't multitasking in newbie queue right?

[RCEnigma]

Then it doesn't matter, scum don't have to get jk lynched in any scenario.

[RCEnigma]

It's 50/50 if they counterclaim or not.

Zeebu being the kill target is the interesting part since you're right it doesn't add up.

[RCEnigma]

I'll be around to hammer before deadline so consider this as intent.

[RCEnigma]

We tried angle shooting with the first lynch lol. Newbies are just a strange breed.

[RCEnigma]

Hiiiiyahhh VOTE: Zeebu ?

[RCEnigma]

Holds breath.

[RCEnigma]

Selfishly I would prefer like salad be jailed. If it comes down to me and TTTT you can just Lynch in succession.

[RCEnigma]

Ehh that wasn't my point but fair.

[RCEnigma]

Hey that's my favorite twice song.

[RCEnigma]

Surprised TTTT didn't concede knowing he'd be blocked.

[RCEnigma]

By killing PRS.

[RCEnigma]

There is a slight possibility that scum is not TTTT and chose to no kill.

Yeah I thought about it but that would make eggs scum fmpov and I don't buy it. Salad wouldn't no kill.

[RCEnigma]

Tgs jailing Zeebu was pretty fortunate, hope being run up by scum doesn't deter him from playing again in the future.

[RCEnigma]

It was, I let the game fizzle and TTTT was scum so I can't blame him.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: TTTT speedrun challenge.

[RCEnigma]

Official Vote Count 4.00

Life is a video game, here are the cheat codes

I haven't actually read this article yet but it looks interesting.

---

Lynching

With 5 votes in play, it takes 4 to lynch.

Everybody

(0): Nobody

Not Voting

(5): Eggs, RCEnigma, Saladman27, The Grand Sham, TTTT

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-06-14 19:00:00).

Mod notes:

Keep it fun!

Wouldn't it be 3 votes to Lynch?

[RCEnigma]

I hate being scum
I hate it even more when I really like the playerlist

I feel this, I liked everyone here.

[RCEnigma]

I thought that's what you were setting up.

[RCEnigma]

Like I didn't feel like you would make the assertion that we were in an A column setup if you weren't ready to claim cop.

[RCEnigma]

I'll go on record saying I almost CC'd the jailkeeper claim to dissuade scum from claiming.

[RCEnigma]

But I felt like it would only work if TTTT wasn't scum.

[RCEnigma]

also if you have an inno or guilty
I'd advise you slowplay

In retrospect this didn't end up being scummy for the reason I thought it was. But generally I find this kind of wifom statement as scum trying to manipulate setup information.

I do this too.

[RCEnigma]

Like I didn't feel like you would make the assertion that we were in an A column setup if you weren't ready to claim cop.

I really was talking about investigatives in general terms
but I was pretty nervous when you said I alignment slipped

I was paranoid we were in a B column setup and you had just hit an investigative. I really felt you were setting your partner up to fakeclaim.

[RCEnigma]

believe it or not
in Newbie games I rolled town 11 times in a row before this game
I haven't been scum since Matrix6

I haven't rolled a single PR in newbie queue since I started. I really thought this was my time lol.

[RCEnigma]

Gg all. Ty plot, I tend to enjoy the math flavors that I barely understand.

[RCEnigma]

TGS MVP.

[RCEnigma]

Imagine all the SEs being alive day 3 and urap being the towniest of them.

[RCEnigma]

Never with conviction. Plus I'm always a potential PR because I drop crumbs for no reason and play a generally scummy but loud game so it's nai.

I think tttt has that impression of me too. Besides urap probably figures tttt out with time.

[RCEnigma]

I'll assume RC was town this game which means he scumread me.