Newbie 1934: Tundra (Game Over)

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: cinnamon i have been waiting for this game to start so I could tell you your name and profile picture are very cute

[Irrelephant11]

Somehow I foresaw FL’s vote the moment Ausuka stole you from the queue

[Irrelephant11]

I know your vote is not RVS. That’s what I was saying

I’m always torn in newbie games between wanting to be a good example and wanting to play really loose-y goose-y
Here’s me doing the latter VOTE: Irrelephant11

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: thenavneet

[Irrelephant11]

srs vote

[Irrelephant11]

Not sure what to do with the complete lack of a response to my self vote
but uh
I guess your reactions are NAI since you all ignored it
:/

[Irrelephant11]

teacher I'm confused. Did you not see this page of the game when you voted for me? How did you think it was L-1?

[Irrelephant11]

Not sure what to do with the complete lack of a response to my self vote
but uh
I guess your reactions are NAI since you all ignored it
:/

I thought it seemed a little scummy but wanted to wait and see what the SEs were reading from it, because it came so early on

I, as an SE, think it was very towny. I got a wagon going quick, which is always good!
Speaking of, wanna vote thenavneet? They're currently my strongest scumread

[Irrelephant11]

An incredibly small one, yes! I think more than any other player their RVS vote ignored what had come before it in a slightly scummy way

[Irrelephant11]

See now that’s a spicy take
This guy gets it
That’s L-1

[Irrelephant11]

Wait wow it super isn’t L-1

[Irrelephant11]

Lol I guess we’re too lazy to read before we write
What do you think about Bob’s vote one me

[Irrelephant11]

That Bob’s phrasing was odd. “One of his partners”. But we know that if he’s mafia then there’s only one partner, so use of the plural stands out. I don’t think it necessarily means Bob is bad but it makes me think maybe he’s probably not actually persuaded that irrelephant is bad.

This is an interesting post
Bob, why did you say "one of his partners"? What did you mean?

[Irrelephant11]

FL why did you unvote?

[Irrelephant11]

A lot of that honestly feels like a stretch
I do think I townlean menalque overall, though. I don't think a case that's a stretch is scummy on page 3, necessarily
Eggs feels like nervous town (not a strong read yet though)
Part of me wants to townread cinnamon for tone but otoh I almost get a "don't want to get my hands dirty" vibe from their posts
I don't love navneet's "this is RVS so nothing matters" attitude but this wagon is played out

VOTE: cinnamon

[Irrelephant11]

^Agreed
I could see a Bob/cinnamon team, but if not that I would also start looking closer at my fellow SEs

[Irrelephant11]

That is to say, I townread menalque/Eggs/navneet and don’t yet have reasons to scumlean FL or teacher, but unless the team is 2/3 of cinnamon/Bob/Voted I agree that SEs should get a closer look

[Irrelephant11]

Still kinda getting scum vibes from cinnamon, as much as I like their name and avatar

[Irrelephant11]

Cinnamon reminds me of my first game tbh

[Irrelephant11]

Feels almost too polite

[Irrelephant11]

Oh I forgot they voted together
Voted/Bob team?

[Irrelephant11]

I’ll stop speculating and start voting
VOTE: bob

[Irrelephant11]

I think I townread Uncle Bob scumreading FL here? Not sure if scum!Bob thinks his best pivot from being widely scumread is to move to Flavor who's been pretty active and has lots of experience.
Maybe I'm wrong though

Meanwhile, might as well move down the line to my newly strongest scumread! VOTE: voted

[Irrelephant11]

Eggs is questionable.

Can you talk more about what you meant here?

[Irrelephant11]

I find it weird that a Bob/me team is coming up at all from these SEs, even if we both may individually look scummy to them. To me, I don't think anyone would as mafia agree so much with their mafia partner out of nowhere on a player that nobody else is reading as scummy at this point in the game, especially when they aren't being townread themselves (although bob was townread by some at this point).a

The reason why I caveated my read on flavor is that I am currently out and did not have time to provide a full read on him, but I wanted to post my gut reaction to their posts at the time. If teacher can vouch for this as his playstyle, then that weakens my read on him a lot.

I think 124 reflects well on cinnamon, which makes things harder.

Gonna go with this.

VOTE: Bob

I disagree, actually. It's a good argument for why cinnamon isn't scum with Bob, but isn't that towny otherwise imo

[Irrelephant11]

Interesting I was just thinking a similar thought about you/cinnamon
Maybe I shouuuuld take mindmelding with the SEs as town indicative? It’s happened multiple times with both of you
I wonder if a teacher/FL team sets out to try to pocket me hard? Probably not?

[Irrelephant11]

Where are the inconsistencies in my logic?

[Irrelephant11]

Where in 138 do you see me “forgetting” my Bob read?

[Irrelephant11]

If you townread FL, you think I’m not putting much thought in my reads, and you think teacher has barely contributed, which of us do you think is the “one mafia who is doing a great job at misleading town”?

I might have been too quick to townread Eggs, in retrospect. He’s got a lot to say but he does feel very self conscious here. I’m flip flopping as I reread his ISO

[Irrelephant11]

I no longer scumread cinnamon, I think? Ironically I think most of my scumread there was from his personality/posting style, which is actually fairly similar to mine.
Navneet how do you read cinnamon?
Cinnamon what from menalque do you like?

This game it feels like it’s rare for two players to be online simultaneously - I thik the gamestate could become a little more high info if we make a concerted effort to interrogate each other more closely despite time differences.

[Irrelephant11]

Hnggg I feel like I’m letting cinnamon off too easy
But like maybe voted is just lurky scum and this game is actually going great

[Irrelephant11]

Why is Eggs higher townier than menalque?
Why don’t you want to vote SEs - what if two of us SEs are the entire scumteam?

[Irrelephant11]

I don’t think navneet is scum based on how many votes he’s gotten tbh

[Irrelephant11]

Active scum certainly doesn’t help town more than lurking town. What?
And yeah it can be hard to lynch scum D1 but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. The odds are low but nowhere near 0%

[Irrelephant11]

Regardless of your stance on lynching SEs, what are your reads on us?

[Irrelephant11]

I also think Voted is scum
I also also seriously doubt Menalque is scum here ever

[Irrelephant11]

I kind of don’t think it’s Voted either, but that’s less strong. He looks like Major mislynch bait

I’m hesitant of calling Irrelephant scum because I feel I have a tendency to scum read him, but I’m leaning there, which could just mean he’s town.

Which leaves Teacher, Bob, and Nave.

That’s where I’m at

I like what I’m seeing from FL and Menalque recently
Cinnamon is moving up in my reads though they’re who I would get suspicious of in lylo if that makes sense

I think there’s precisely one scum between {Eggs, Voted}, echoing some of Menalque’s case but also just based on my own reads & the fact Eggs is voting Voted

Teacher had a couple moments I thought were town indicative but he’s pretty impressive as scum so I won’t say he’s a strong townread rn. I guess the fact that Nav was voted quickly early on might not be the strongest reason to townread him on its own. I don’t remember my read on bob

I’ll come back to this after this holiday

[Irrelephant11]

The stagnant gamestate solidified my townreads on cinnamon and Menalque, who could both choose to do less work than they’re doing and would probably get away with it
Gonna read ISOs to figure out f Voted is actually the lynch I want or just the wagon we needed

[Irrelephant11]

Spoiler: Wow navneet’s ISO is bad

VOTE: Eggs

never liked em

I stand by my read that this was the least towny post on page 1

VOTE: Teacher

L-1 folks

This made me laugh harder than it should have

UNVOTE: Eggs

A wise person once said “first unvote is scum”. I think it was maybe a duck?

How you feeling about being at L-1, nav?

I'm not worried. From what I understand, Elephant's reason for scum reading me is that I ignored the 3 vote wagon on him on page 1. I think that's a fair reason for him to want to vote me. I hadn't even read the thing when I voted but he can't know that.. The "joke" pile on from Eggs is the thing that pinged me the most but I still consider this RVS so not gonna read a lot into it.

I could townread the “I understand why I’m scumread” if the rest of the ISO was good but uh this is the most contentful post in the ISO

Alright I have some time now so I'm gonna try hard for a bit

This ended up not being true. Bah hate work some days. I'll tryhard later at night but I'll allow people to SR me based on these 2 posts

I sure will SR you based on these two posts

[Irrelephant11]

Restarted reads now that there’s meat to most ISOs:
Me
Menalque, cinnamon
- null line -
Navneet

[Irrelephant11]

I don't expect anyone to believe me, but I actually did miscount that wagon and didn't announce L-1.

I will do my best to vomit town over the thread in the next few days.

There’s a surprising amount of “I get why I’m being scumread” this game
Eggs is very town
I forgot I’d seen his finished towngame - he’s even townier here, by postcount and word count (good enough for me in this slow D1)

[Irrelephant11]

Flavor Leaf is Flavor Leaf I townlean him which makes me think I should scumread him which makes me think I should townread him.
His meta is complicated and I’ll leave him at null for now

[Irrelephant11]

Actually I’ll leabe him at townlean
At least a couple of my reasons to townread him are somewhat firm (timing of similar thoughts about each other and reads that make sense, not causing chaos, etc)

[Irrelephant11]

I love when I meld with you, even if I can never townblock you. Nice to play with you again.

I’m actually more on bob. Both of their first two posts seemed off.

Sure.

VOTE: bob

It’s been a few months, but my history with the elephant is that I normally have the same reads. I am always concerned about him cause the man can powerscum with the best of them, but with his activity levels and general slot odds, that’s never a good day one lynch.

I grok what he is saying in Eggs. Lot of self-conscious posting and one slight scummy vote. Here again though, I’m willing to let the active driving of the game take it out of my D1 lynch pool.

I get why Menalque is pushing Eggs. It’s a legitimate case and the most questionable objective fact on this low info day. That said, I strongly differ on reading tone. Indeed, the tone comment is odd from someone who writes 20

That is my not lynching pool for now, and a response to bob’s 136

I forgot to ask how many games until I qualify as SE when I joined the newb queue

Alright I have some time now so I'm gonna try hard for a bit

This ended up not being true. Bah hate work some days. I'll tryhard later at night but I'll allow people to SR me based on these 2 posts

I need you to do an analysis on 3 players. I’ll even let you pick. But reads and reasons please.

there are quite a few town reads on thenavneet right now.

This statement requires three plus to be valid. Kindly point them out.

I townread all of these ^

I don’t think navneet is scum based on how many votes he’s gotten tbh

Did the wagon feel real to you?

Idk what this question means. What makes a wagon real?

[Irrelephant11]

Being pulled away by my wife

I think I was at
Me
Cinnamon, teacher
Menalque, FL
- null -
Navneet

[Irrelephant11]

What about voting town on D1 is scummy?
My gut and the fact I couldn’t remember any strong townreads from you, just lotsa scum cases

[Irrelephant11]

What about the gamestate makes you say the SEs have to have a scum? I get the feeling we might just happen to be three busy adults on a holiday weekend spending most of our time IRL

[Irrelephant11]

I just read through some marathons and kinda suspect cinnamon again, just throwing that out there

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: teacher

[Irrelephant11]

Yeah weird that Eggs and Voted said nothing right??

[Irrelephant11]

Lol
I was giving Voted a juicy wagon and seeing if he’d take it
He didn’t even touch it
I’m not sure I want a Voted lynch, especially given basically everyone voting him has acknowledged he’s mislynchbait

[Irrelephant11]

Not sure I see scum!Voted unless scum!teacher, anyway

[Irrelephant11]

semi-busses?

And I just explained the 180, it was a test for Voted, who didn't look for a way to get on the new opposing wagon (though teacher didn't give him as much time as I'd like before calling my vote out, but...)
If Voted his scum, he has massive confidence that a non-teacher wagon will pull through or teacher is his partner. Both feel pretty unlikely (it's rare that a slower gamestate like this one results in two wagons on scum), so I don't think Voted is scum
Ez Pz

pedit: oh interesting, but then why did Voted ignore the wagon on you? Seems like it'd be the answer to his prayers that he could join the wagon his partner is on with the cover of more townies

[Irrelephant11]

I'm not sure I find teacher to be scummy but I don't find him much of anything lately, his questions have started to feel like busywork, and I semi-trust FL's reads (trust because his reads are good, semi because I can't really read him)

[Irrelephant11]

If you’re scum I expect you to take the opportunity to avoid your own lynch, yes @voted
Which is why I’m now thinking you’re town

@eggs I wasn’t expecting anything specific from you, necessarily

Teacher I find your speculation that these two are scum together unrealistic and contradictory to the “don’t pre-flip associate” posts you had a few pages ago. Tell me why I shouldn’t be alarmed

[Irrelephant11]

I mean I’m not just unvoting because i think he’s mislynch bait
He doesn’t show survivalism

I’m really struggling to nail down any strong scumreads
Navneet might be scum and I’d compromise there
Someone sell me on town!cinnamon because their participation in marathons showed me they are skilled as scum

[Irrelephant11]

Do you have any townreads? It’s always helpful to make accurate townreads, making it harder to lynch town
I’m sorta surprised you haven’t wavered in your eggs scumread at this point

[Irrelephant11]

I will case cinnamon tomorrow and see if my gut makes sense
Menalque is pinging me with so many lynches he’s happy to pursue

Why don’t I feel like I have any strong townreads (and yes I recognize I also have not been especially towny)
I usually scumread when someone says this but wow my head is not in this game

[Irrelephant11]

On another note, I really don't like this post from Raya. It seems to me that this push on me is mainly based on the opinions of others, rather than their own opinions due to the fact that their arguments are really weak and seem to be coming mainly from irrelephant's thoughts.

I had the same thought
The entire post felt like it was meant to get on my good side

[Irrelephant11]

Raya what makes me a strong townlean for you?

[Irrelephant11]

I'm still gonna case cinnamon here though to see if narrowing down my scumlean there will strengthen it or just make it go away

[Irrelephant11]

-snip-

Forgive me if I'm missing something meta, but do you seriously have a specific read on thenavneet to make you think they're scummy?

Here's where I started to feel the "hmm cinnamon is tonally stepping lightly, which I remember doing as scum in my first game to great success." because of the "forgive me if I'm missing something" politeness.

What's up with people in this game thinking everything is L-1

At the time I kinda confbiased this post into "why is town dumb" but I guess on its own it's not really AI.

I like the tone of his post, it reads towny to me. As for the vote, I don't have a read on it yet.

What do you (or anybody else) think?

This, again, reads like polite deflecting i.e. "maybe he's town, someone else talk now".
In fairness the only towny thing about Bob's post was its tone, so maybe this was a goodish read (and furthering conversation obviously isn't a bad thing, I just couldn't decide if it was genuine)

I'm not sure how Flavor plays but to me he's trying to look town, whereas Eggs seems more apathetic than anything. Both of them aren't giving off towny vibes but Flavor seems more scummy at the moment.

VOTE: Flavor

This felt forced at the time, though in retrospect it was very early game.

I said that because I think acting apathetic can happen as either alignment but generally trying to look town is something a good town wouldn't do

This pinged me.

I don't like flavors behavior here either but again I haven't looked at how he previously plays

Not sure what "again" is referring to - when else did you mention how you haven't seen Flavor's previous games, cinnamon?

I find it weird that a Bob/me team is coming up at all from these SEs, even if we both may individually look scummy to them. To me, I don't think anyone would as mafia agree so much with their mafia partner out of nowhere on a player that nobody else is reading as scummy at this point in the game, especially when they aren't being townread themselves (although bob was townread by some at this point).a

The reason why I caveated my read on flavor is that I am currently out and did not have time to provide a full read on him, but I wanted to post my gut reaction to their posts at the time. If teacher can vouch for this as his playstyle, then that weakens my read on him a lot.

This begins cinnamon's longheld argument that the SEs must hold a scum, because for a moment the three of us agreed on a scumteam that, like any scumteam D1, is unlikely. Just tracking this as it affects a lot of later posts.
The other points here are kinda fair, though.

One thing that I would really like to hear about are reads on the SEs and their interactions so far. I really don't like that they are all thinking along the same lines, as they generally think that the mafia are between Bob, Voted, and myself and unless the team is exactly Bob/Voted they're wrong FMPOV. I'm not reading town from either Bob or Voted but I think it would be useful to see other possibilities entertained as it seems somewhat suspicious to me that three different people with experience in the game would come to very similar wrong conclusions if they are all town. What seems more likely in my eyes is that there is at least one mafia there who is doing a great job at misleading town.

I don't like this assertion. Three SEs seeing things from a similar perspective is, to me, indicative we're all town. I don't feel that as strongly as I did in early game (neither other SE has been stellar lately, though I guess I haven't worked hard itt lately either)
But cinnamon's certainty that one SE is misleading town doesn't jive with the individual reads he had on each of us as players, which I pointed out at the time. If cinnamon is scum, I think I would actually expect one of teacher/Flavor to flip scum, because I'm not sure newbscum has the confidence to get on the bad side of all the SEs if we're all town. I think it's more likely scum!cinnamon would say "this group of three has one scum" and be right about it for distancing, while in the meanwhile never actually pushing their partner's lynch seriously.
Regardless, I'm not a huge fan of this post and the following ones (see below)

The more I read of Flavor's posts, the less scummy he seems. His thought process through his posts makes a lot of sense to me. At the moment, he's moved more to a weak town read for me. On the other hand, I don't see the same thing from Irrelephant. Starting with when he suggested a team of Bob/myself, there's been small inconsistencies in his logic (also see 138 where he forgot an earlier read he made on bob).

This could just be a sign of not having full attention to this game, but I see it as more of him trying to push without putting much thought behind it.

I don't like that. I wish teacher would speak more so I could get a better read from him, at the moment I don't have a read on them.

This pivot from Flavor to me feels forced. I don't see any reasoning for why Flavor is no longer a scumlean (though when Bob voted Flavor he got wagoned, so popular opinion is obviously against scumreading Flavor)
He recognizes why town!me might post what I'm posting, but instead chooses (see bolded) to believe the less likely scenario that I'm scum.

I apologize on one part; when I looked through yesterday I thought I saw a townread on Bob from you, when that was somebody else.

You seemed inconsistent when you posted about pushing a team of Bob/myself when that was clearly quite unlikely, then shifting to talking about a Bob/Voted team despite having mentioned me specifically as acting scummy a number of times without specific mention of either of Bob or Voted. I thought that was weird.

I push back on this scumread, so cinnamon moves along...

I don't see you as super scummy right now as my read is not that strong, which is why I didn't mention who I specifically thought would be mafia. I'm leaning towards you but I would like to see more contribution from teacher before I really push that. I think it would be really easy as mafia to act like teacher is doing now.

to teacher. This is consistent with his "one SE must be scum" assertion, but the individual scumreads on each of us are very weak, and the timing of the shifting reads seems mostly based on whether or not his vote is making him enemies

My posts have been mainly focused on the SEs because I think it would be useful to discuss the SEs - there hasn't been too much discussion over their play so far and they are posting a lot. In addition, some of the other players aren't really giving off reads right now.

For instance, I am not sure why there are quite a few town reads on thenavneet right now. From what they've said, I don't see anything that I would consider really townie. If I was to townread them it would really be me sheeping other players. I'd love to hear more from him.

I do like what Menalque is saying, his ideas make sense to me. I have a town read on him so far.

navneet and menalque reads here make sense to me, but also don't show a ton of reasoning, which makes me wonder if they're TMI (indeed, knowing that navneet's replacement would later enter the thread in a way that feels informed regarding my alignment, and with a vote on cinnamon, a small part of me wonders if this could be the team...).

Bob, I think what Flavor is trying to say is that he believes as town he acts towny enough that a two person wagon formed against him early like we did is generally not going to be two other town.

I can't decide why I dislike this post. I think just the way cinnamon intercedes on Flavor's behalf feels unnecessary. Like he's helping for the sake of helping? This might be confbias.

I agree, Menalque seems really town here

I mean yeah

One thing I'm noting from Voted going through his games on this site is that his play in this game is significantly different from both previous town and scum games where he played much more actively and aggressively. It seems like, for whatever reason, he has chosen to play this game differently.

This is a post that gives me second thoughts regarding scum!cinnamon. I don't think informed mafia do meta reads very often (even though they know it'd make them look towny, it's still somewhat rare), and it'd be impressive if scum!cinnamon decided to do one as a newbie. This isn't clearing, but it certainly un-confbiases me I think.

If Voted is mafia, just judging from his reads list I think his teammate would be either Uncle Bob or, more likely, an SE. I think it was extremely weird that he didn't even post his reads list on the SE players until prompted to. This also continues off of my earlier thought that there is potentially an SE mafia.

This post ignores that I was the one who prompted him to provide those reads ("one of the SEs" furthering suspicion against all of us, when really it should only direct suspicion toward teacher or Flavor imo)
But that's neither here nor there for cinnamon's alignment. I agree it was weird Voted didn't provide reads on us three till I asked.

VOTE: Voted

THIS IS L-1.

Wait a minute, I don't think that's L-1 either... we're really bad at that this game

This pair of posts is towny. I do think the vote makes sense, but more than that I think thinking something is L-1 when it's not yet L-1 is just more likely to come from town, because I think scum have incentive to be aware of where votes are.
Very clever if this is intentional on scum!cinnamon's part

While I agree with flavor in that there aren't that many newbs giving off scum vibes, I would like to hear both bob and thenavneet (or their replacement) really step up and give more to the discussion right now, I think that could also be a big reason why the discussion has become so difficult.

yeah true

I like the tone of his post, it reads towny to me. As for the vote, I don't have a read on it yet.

What do you (or anybody else) think?

What about Bob's post here read towny to you?

I thought that the straightforwardness and blunt nature of his post was towny

yeah true

-snip-

I haven't really talked about this at all yet, but you've been constantly bringing up the idea that I seem scummy. Is there anything in particular that makes you feel this way? It seems really odd that you've been focusing on me so much with statements like this that aren't talking about what I've been doing in this game that is indicative of scum.

tbh as I'm doing this case on you I think it comes mostly from undeserved paranoia. You remind me a little of me, & a little of a certain duck I can never read correctly. I also read your We Need a Fifth win with RC in the Marathon Queue, and I thought your scumplay there was smart and well-performed (confirming my suspicion that you're better than the average newbscum). I'm still paranoid of you tbh, even as I write this, but the logical part of my brain says your posts are mostly reasonable and you've been pretty pro-town overall.

Menalque, could you explain why you think me townreading you in two posts is 'trying to pocket [you] super hard' whereas Irrelephant (for example) townreading you in really the same number of posts is not?

A good question, I was also wondering where menalque's suspicion of you came from, since it seemed to come out of left field

I am also starting to like Eggs less, I previously had a null read on them but their last few posts have seemed somewhat scummy to me.

Disagree here, I really liked his 311 and following posts, but you did provide reasons for disliking them, so I kinda get it.

Irrelephant then Menalque pushed me there for reasons that don't make a large amount of sense to me, which I find pretty suspicious.

Do you understand menalque's push on you now, cinnamon?

-snip-

Another question for you Menalque - I notice that here, you state that you were comfortable with the SEs because they were all reading similarly and they had yet to call each other out. In your reads list, you also have all three SEs at the top of your town list. Has recent discussion from them done anything to change your opinion on this?

Meh this doesn't give me good vibes but otoh maybe cinnamon is just correct that one of teacher/FL is scum

Lynching for information is a terrible play (in this scenario). Saying you want to lynch me then Voted (since I'll flip town), completely ignoring the possibility that literally anybody else is mafia doesn't make any sense to me and I'm not sure why you're trying to push this. I really struggle to see why you aren't really considering the possibility that

the mafia team looks something like (Irrelephant, Eggs) and Irrelephant has been doing a great job of making sure the discussion is off of Eggs

or really any other number of possibilities here. Just because the SEs are talking doesn't mean they're advancing the game in a way that helps town.

Cinnamon what made you say the bolded?

-snip-

Secondly, I ignored the part about power roles because I don't think Voted would be a good check even if there was a Neapolitan/Cop in the game. There's much more influential players and knowing their alignments would be much more useful. If we are talking about ignoring parts of the other person's post, I notice you did not respond at all to what I said about how players that look to be advancing the game are not necessarily doing it to the benefit of town.

As an aside I think investigatives should prioritize checking hard-to-read players over influential players. If those two categories, overlap, great. If not, sort the nulls.

Can I heavy push this, please?

If you think it's something worth pushing, by all means you should do it.

This also gives me "I want to keep my hands clean while you get your hands dirty" vibes like earlier posts, but also, I feel like I've written this post as town, so meh

Frankly, I'm starting to become a bit frustrated that flimsy arguments like this have been pushed against me for the whole game.

Irrelephant has been doing it this whole time and now other people are jumping in on it.

I can't see how you see just purely early game tone as 'playing it a bit safe' - I've been posting this whole time with all my opinions out there and I think that this particular argument should not hold water. When I unvoted I was unvoting flavor, who I was townreading. I was not unvoting irrelephant. There was no backpedal there at all, just me pointing out something I thought was peculiar from irrelephant but also recognizing that it is a weak read.

Bolded is actually a pretty good reason to townread you tbh
I've provided like no actual case on you before now so while I can see menalque's reasoning, raya feels like she's sheeping me for the sake of sheeping me without admitting to it

[Irrelephant11]

tl;dr I've lost most of my interest in a cinnamon lynch today but I'm going to keep an eye out for cinnamon's voting patterns post-flips because I do think it's possible cinnamon is a talented scum player who's great at ~feeling~ towny while going with the flow more than actually scumhunting.

VOTE: raya

[Irrelephant11]

raya's entrance feels very agenda driven and it's just a fact that rep-outs are scum more often than non-rep-outs (a somewhat tasteless way to make a read, but I'd be voting raya here regardless I think), not to mention navneet did 0 helpful posting before disappearing

[Irrelephant11]

yeah the mod already posted a replacement request in the newbie queue

[Irrelephant11]

I'm never lynching menalque before lylo
I townread Eggs and sorta cinnamon

[Irrelephant11]

teacher and FL aren't scum together and both feel slightly above null rn I think

[Irrelephant11]

Cinnamon why are you voting Voted?

[Irrelephant11]

I don’t see scum teacher here tho
I mostly voted him to test Voted’s survivalism
Like he’s underwhelming but I don’t see how he’s scummier than nav/raya slot

Have you read the raya entrance, FL/Baezu?

[Irrelephant11]

Still kinda getting scum vibes from cinnamon, as much as I like their name and avatar

Cinnamon also feels like newbscum but in a different way - he’s feigning confusion

Talk more about this read?
Unpack it for me

[Irrelephant11]

Is Flavor town? Is teacher town? Why?

[Irrelephant11]

I’m not really townreading him
But I would like you to scumcase him please

[Irrelephant11]

Winding up to vote me in 3... 2...

[Irrelephant11]

Why did you ever scumread teacher?
Do you disagree that raya’s entrance to the thread seems basically meant to pocket me?

[Irrelephant11]

I’m already annoyed at FL so he’s probably town

[Irrelephant11]

Teacher is lockscum or I am?

[Irrelephant11]

Can you please point to any reasons?
Even just quote some posts

[Irrelephant11]

Cinnamon I think you’re a very capable mafia player. Do you agree?

FL I can think of multiple reasons why town!teacher would stay “in the neutral area”, and i feel like you probably can too. That’s why I’m not scumreading him atm.

Can you elaborate on feeling most newbies are town? It’s taken most of D1 for me to get strong townreads on, well, anyone tbh

[Irrelephant11]

We have just over 36 hours
Raya should claim

[Irrelephant11]

I could compromise on teacher because he’s low-efforting this game, at best, but raya would probably have to claim something worth saving

[Irrelephant11]

A player who says “i accept scumreads”, reps out, and is replaced by someone who posts one (1) post with zero (0) original content is more likely to be scum than town imo

[Irrelephant11]

I think raya’s one post is scummy because it is opportunistic, except maybe in the case where cinnamon is scum (in which case, good catch raya). Given you and I are both townreading cinnamon I’m surprised you don’t see it that way

[Irrelephant11]

It’s also not my job as town to defend a slot with zero towntells when I don’t see obvscum elsewhere

Pedit: I don’t think raya’s intention was to do nothing. I think her one post is intending to get on the good side of some townies (me, Menalque) while lynching another townie (cinnamon)

Unless cinnamon is scum, raya’s post feels the most like scum motivation to me out of anything done this game
The rep out, like it or not, is also scum indicative
Why should I *not* be voting raya? Who are the opportunistic scum here?

[Irrelephant11]

Also like,

Sometimes scum lose motivation when they feel caught. It’s happened to me in a game I had no business losing as scum - but a couple slots tunneled me and I emotionally faltered and got lynched
It could be happening to raya

[Irrelephant11]

You still haven’t case teacher beyond how his play has helped contribute to a stagnant gamestate, which imo is just as likely to come from busy-IRL!teacher as scum!teacher

Pedit: my point is I think it’s a misrep to say raya has done nothing. They’ve posted, and that post is scummy. Their press posted, and those posts weee scummy. I agree it plausible scum!raya’s partner would bus here, but I also think it’s plausible scum!raya’s partner repped out (Bob/Baezu)

[Irrelephant11]

@cinnamon

Cinnamon I think you’re a very capable mafia player. Do you agree?

[Irrelephant11]

That’s really it. That is why Teacher is scum mixed in with POE. You left out the POE part.

You haven’t made the POE part very clear though
Like in the post before this you’re saying cinnamon could be scum
You’ve said you think Bob slot could be scum

Who have you removed from the POE and why?

[Irrelephant11]

I don’t think navneet is scum based on how many votes he’s gotten tbh

Did the wagon feel real to you?

Are you asking me to answer this question or just bringing up that teacher said it

[Irrelephant11]

Voted/me/cinnamon/Menalque
I’m shocked if it’s menalque

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: cinnamon

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: raya mainly because deadline
Please claim

[Irrelephant11]

Baezu-Teacher-Eggs are likely at most 1 scum as well, because else Raya would have likely gone through by now, so there isn’t a pair within that.

I don’t think any lynch would go through pre-claim in the newbie queue

[Irrelephant11]

Look at how Irrelephant’s been speaking. He’s controlling the game state. Discrediting me, but not pushing me. He’s actively making sure I don’t get moment7m.

In contrast towards you, you are actually trying to figure out my thoughts, and attempting to work with me.

If you look into the future with a hypothetical green Raya flip, Irrelephant also stands out hard. He’s also toyed with the idea of Voted, which sets up Voted to be lynched after Raya flips green.

If Irrelephant is town, Cinnamon probably takes the spot, because they’ve more or less been doing the same thing, but they’ve been less powertown projecting.

I agree my voice is ringing loud. I’m not sure I’m right. I’m having a hard time seeing where you’re coming from, is all. I don’t see a reason to defend raya in isolation, and your thoughts regarding teacher (while an entirely reasonable scumcase) feel predicated on the idea that your ideas being unpopular mean they’re necessarily right. That’s not always how Mafia works

[Irrelephant11]

As scum, Baezu sheeping me would have changed the game state more. Instead, it kind of halted it.

Scum does not give me more power in this situation, and the fact that I’m so individualistic thinking against the grain indicates that I’m at least partly right or scum would abuse it.

Explain the first part to me more, how does Baezu sheeping you lead to more of a change in the game state if she’s scum? How did her sheeping you halt it?

Second part, explain to me how scum abuse it if you’re not right?

This whole post was a bit unclear to me.

Baezu and I both on Teacher as town, why would scum ever not push it if Teacher is town? They’d rather have a Raya lynch over teacher? One that would incriminate them much harder after a green flip?

If Baezu is scum going on TownTeacher, what’s the point in that?

Baezu-Raya scum team I guess could counteract that. Idk. If I’m super wrong, why is scum not taking advantage of me being wrong. I’d take the blunt of the damage for it.

Hey now I see inside your head
This post makes sense to me

[Irrelephant11]

I’m leaning Teacher-Irrelephant

Teacher-cinnamon
Baezu-raya
You-Voted
Mayyybe Voted-raya?

Are the teams that make sense to me right now
Doesn’t have to be one of those three but they’re where my head is at
Baezu-raya is the least towny team and raya is the least towny slot

[Irrelephant11]

I guess a Baezu-Voted team could be getting away with letting me and FL argue but Voted was on nav/raya before me

[Irrelephant11]

FL if you think there’s scum on the Raya wagon why do you think it’s not Voted?

He’s a mislynch. Scum have been setting a gamestate up where he becomes a compromise wagon.

You’re talking about Voted here? I *very* don’t see it. Who’s setting up Voted as a compromise? I’m not voting Voted today

[Irrelephant11]

I’m leaning Teacher-Irrelephant

Teacher-cinnamon
Baezu-raya
You-Voted
Mayyybe Voted-raya?

Are the teams that make sense to me right now
Doesn’t have to be one of those three but they’re where my head is at
Baezu-raya is the least towny team and raya is the least towny slot

Me-Voted, why do I fight Raya lynch so hard then instead of lynching and then pushing a 1 off 1 on mentality, which would give me ample fire for both you and menalque?

This looks fabricated.

You-Voted was a recent thought based on your treatment of Voted
I agree it’s unlikely upon further thought
The top two are the ones I see as most likely but I also recognize I rarely call out the full team D1
My main point being raya has at least one realistic scum partner here and I don’t see many realistic partners for teacher aside from cinnamon

[Irrelephant11]

I guess maybe I would have more suspicion of teacher if I didn’t know I was town? But I also think it’s silly to think I’m scum with him and we just eternally nulltown each other with no thought to associatives

[Irrelephant11]

[*]Cinnamon -- I Love the early game question to elephant re nav. While I have some questions about the reads (e.g., I dont see Flavor as trying to do anything, much less "look towny), I think that difference is more town-indicative of Cinammon trying to find something and analyze it. I really do wish they would pay less attention to SEs - I find it it odd they havent mentioned Eggs, other than to call him apathetic, which seems way off. Town-lean

I do remember thinking town-lean was a weird way to summarize this

[Irrelephant11]

The more I read of Flavor's posts, the less scummy he seems. His thought process through his posts makes a lot of sense to me. At the moment, he's moved more to a weak town read for me. On the other hand, I don't see the same thing from Irrelephant. Starting with when he suggested a team of Bob/myself, there's been small inconsistencies in his logic (also see 138 where he forgot an earlier read he made on bob). This could just be a sign of not having full attention to this game, but I see it as more of him trying to push without putting much thought behind it. I don't like that. I wish teacher would speak more so I could get a better read from him, at the moment I don't have a read on them.

I don't see you as super scummy right now as my read is not that strong, which is why I didn't mention who I specifically thought would be mafia. I'm leaning towards you but I would like to see more contribution from teacher before I really push that. I think it would be really easy as mafia to act like teacher is doing now.

Here's where I'm at right now - in the event that Raya is town, what Flavor is saying makes a ton of sense to me. This Raya wagon would be perfect for scum to jump on because Raya made themselves look so suspicious and I would be looking at a team of something like Irrelephant/teacher or Voted/teacher. This also agrees with my earlier gut read that something isn't quite right with all of the SEs.

Maybe I’m confibiasing but this is starting to feel like the team
And if FL is town his early instincts are usually better than mine
If FL is scum I guess his partner is, like, raya maybe?
FL I’ll vote whoever of teacher/cinnamon you want me to vote to show I’m not their partner. For now I’ll assume you want teacher since that’s who you’re voting
VOTE: teacher

Anyone who’s confused, what are you confused about?

[Irrelephant11]

Irrelephant-Baezu has some equity

Oh lol
This makes sense but I only see Baezu as partnered with raya or, like, Voted maybe

Whatever hopefully one of teacher/Raya will soon town it up enough to end this circular conversation

[Irrelephant11]

Menalque
Eggs
Teacher
FL
Voted
Cinnamon
Baezu
Raya

Wish I had time to explain
But my first wedding anniversary is tomorrow and vacation starts now
So uh
VOTE: raya (L-1)
Ttyl byeee

[Irrelephant11]

I’ve stopped in to say I’m grateful for the time extension and
The main reason I’m townreading FL right now is that only RadiantCowbells is the only scumplayer who has ever made town!me feel like scumreading him would be a dangerous or scary proposition, which is how I’ve recently felt regarding FL. If he’s scum he’s done a great job of making me nervous to explore the idea out loud by setting up a situation where if I ever scumread him it’s proof that he’s right that im scum. This makes me townread him because that’s a very hard thing to do. and
In a world where Raya slot is town and FL is town I think there’s a 0% chance {teacher, cinnamon} has 0 scum. Put another way, I think there’s always 1-2 scum in {me, FL, teacher, cinnamon} if Raya flips town. Put yet another way I have ruled out all scumteams that consist of two of {Menalque, Baezu, Eggs, Voted}, based purely on BoP’ing myself + Flavor Leaf. and
I still think the double replace out slot is scum

Kay we’re going to dinner see y’all tomorrow

[Irrelephant11]

Wow this was a ton to catch up on. I'm pretty busy today so I likely won't be able to post again until tomorrow but I'll just say where my head is at. I still think that logically Raya is the most scummy slot right now, but I'm starting to feel that Irrelephant is the scummiest player currently. Their reads and pushes have been all over the place and their actions, while plentiful, don't seem to be done with the intent of helping town. One major example of this that I found quite weird was their strange interaction with my slot. They spend a ton of posts and time debating the alignment of my slot, then they finally do a full ISO analysis and come to the conclusion that I'm leaning town. However, this very quickly shifts to a scumread off of what seems to me to be a potential associative with Teacher. To me, this suggests that the way they are reading the game is meant more to appease town than to actually solve the game.

An example of this is

In a world where Raya slot is town and FL is town I think there’s a 0% chance {teacher, cinnamon} has 0 scum.

which is quite inconsistent with earlier logic that he agreed with.

Spoiler:

As scum, Baezu sheeping me would have changed the game state more. Instead, it kind of halted it.

Scum does not give me more power in this situation, and the fact that I’m so individualistic thinking against the grain indicates that I’m at least partly right or scum would abuse it.

Explain the first part to me more, how does Baezu sheeping you lead to more of a change in the game state if she’s scum? How did her sheeping you halt it?

Second part, explain to me how scum abuse it if you’re not right?

This whole post was a bit unclear to me.

Baezu and I both on Teacher as town, why would scum ever not push it if Teacher is town? They’d rather have a Raya lynch over teacher? One that would incriminate them much harder after a green flip?

If Baezu is scum going on TownTeacher, what’s the point in that?

Baezu-Raya scum team I guess could counteract that. Idk. If I’m super wrong, why is scum not taking advantage of me being wrong. I’d take the blunt of the damage for it.

Hey now I see inside your head
This post makes sense to me

If he agrees with this logic, then in a world where teacher is town and I am mafia, I am definitely pushing teacher as that would be a good mislynch on a strong player where I do not take much of the blame. In fact, he's called me out previously for my bold, early push on the SEs and I think he would be able to see that I would absolutely use that as a reason to push on teacher. And yet, despite that, he chooses to phrase his post in 621 in a way such that either teacher or I could be mafia which, while it looks right, goes against logic that he's previously agreed with. This suggests to me that his scumread on me right now is completely fabricated.

So to summarize,
“Irrelephant is scum because:
-his logic is inconsistent
-he changed his mind a couple times
- ?”
These are towntells, by the way.

You feel overly concerned with my read on you, cinnamon. I don’t scumread you strongly in isolation, I just know that you’re a very capable scum player from your meta and your associatives leave open the possibility you’re the a likely scum *if I’m wrong* on my strongest scumread.
Also, can you summarize how exactly my logic contradicted? I’ve reread your post a few times and everything I said still makes sense to me tbh

I’ve stopped in to say I’m grateful for the time extension and
The main reason I’m townreading FL right now is that only RadiantCowbells is the only scumplayer who has ever made town!me feel like scumreading him would be a dangerous or scary proposition, which is how I’ve recently felt regarding FL. If he’s scum he’s done a great job of making me nervous to explore the idea out loud by setting up a situation where if I ever scumread him it’s proof that he’s right that im scum. This makes me townread him because that’s a very hard thing to do. and
In a world where Raya slot is town and FL is town I think there’s a 0% chance {teacher, cinnamon} has 0 scum. Put another way, I think there’s always 1-2 scum in {me, FL, teacher, cinnamon} if Raya flips town. Put yet another way I have ruled out all scumteams that consist of two of {Menalque, Baezu, Eggs, Voted}, based purely on BoP’ing myself + Flavor Leaf. and
I still think the double replace out slot is scum

Kay we’re going to dinner see y’all tomorrow

This honestly makes no sense as a reason to town someone.

You’re right, I kinda didn’t finish the thought.
Only one scum player has ever made town!me feel afraid to scumread them
Multiple town players have made town!me feel afraid to scumread them, and town!me has done that to other players (I think).
Therefore, this is very town indicative for FL unless I can find a game in which scum!him has done this - I haven’t had time to look.

[Irrelephant11]

Wrong. I’m town. Stop tunneling the most talkative players for saying things that, in a few outside cases, could have scum motivation.
FL you are the most frustrating player I’ve ever played with. There are other things I would say here if they were within the rules. As it is, you are so so frustrating.

Cinnamon you’re ignoring a million conditionals that are right there in my post. IF raya is town, and IF Flavor is scum, then Flavor’s statement that {me, you, teacher} has 1-2 scum is almost certainly correct (because town!Flavor has good reads and this is a world where Raya/Baezu can’t be the team). I still think Raya slot is the most likely to flip scum.

I don’t know how likely it is that you’re scum if it’s not with teacher - I think you’re somewhat towny in isolation, but I have not ruled out all scumteams with you on them except for the you/teacher (how could I? Some slots have barely played).

[Irrelephant11]

Part of me is starting to feel FL’s refusal to acknowledge the scumminess of the scummiest slot has scum motivation, because lynching someone other than Raya benefits scum!Flavor regardless of Raya’s alignment (if town, D2 gets easier. If scum, well duh)
But another part of me is reminded that longer deadlines help scum more than town in newbie games and this feels the exact kind of long-deadline paranoia that’s likely to lead me to a mislynch

[Irrelephant11]

Part of me is starting to feel FL’s refusal to acknowledge the scumminess of the scummiest slot has scum motivation, because lynching someone other than Raya benefits scum!Flavor regardless of Raya’s alignment (if town, D2 gets easier. If scum, well duh)
But another part of me is reminded that longer deadlines help scum more than town in newbie games and this feels the exact kind of long-deadline paranoia that’s likely to lead me to a mislynch

Ah, see, now he finally took the bait and found a way to twist it back.

I was waiting for this.

This one’s the scum one.

If you want me to BoP you on your read of me I’ll gladly 1v1 you. I have no fears
If I’m real honest I don’t have fun TvTing you anyway so if that’s what this is at least I won’t have to deal with your headstrong personality

But #%^*, y’all about “twisting it back”
I’ll just quote your reads of me in our first game together if you want examples of that

[Irrelephant11]

Pine’s here now. Case what you were trying to case on Raya on him then. We’ll see what you come up with.

I’m too tilted at your refusal to see that I’m the towniest slot in the game to figure out if you’re worth interacting with I’m this moment
I’ll gladly wait and see what Pine has to say about us both

[Irrelephant11]

You’re physically doing stuff that is townie, yes, but I don’t believe you are doing said townie things from a town mindset.

[gif]clever[/gif]

[Irrelephant11]

You’ve just been trying to twist words here and there to make that not the case.

Answer this honestly: do you think Raya’s slot HAS DONE anything towny this game

[Irrelephant11]

If towniness is a scumtell you can’t play mafia

Scum try to be the towniest. But being scum is harder, and being informed and lying about is harder, and those are how you catch scum. Your case on me is that each of the things I’ve done to make this list sortable are scummy because scum want to look towny so of course they’ll do things to make this list sortable - it’s fake because it has to be because you say so

Case me again so I can respond to any real points. I’m town and I think you’d see it if you looked with clear eyes

[Irrelephant11]

The reason I’m not pushing you as scum is you have been incredibly towny
I’m not even arguing that. You’ve done so many towny things this game but the longer you insist on believing unlikely scenarios over likely scenarios the less strong I hold to those towny moments because I know you can powerscum with the actual best of them

Pedit: if I get lynched always always always lynch on my wagon

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: Irrelephant

I missed it. Why do you scumread me?

[Irrelephant11]

Im making my wife mad because I’ve been staring at my phone for too long on vacation but this wagon is F’ing crap and it’s pissing me off
If Raya isnt scum Cinnamon probably is for always sheeping the scumread most strongly held by either of me/Flavor

[Irrelephant11]

Voted could be a Raya partner in retrospect, he was first on the wagon but might not have expected the wagon to build to L-1 and is using FL’s tunnel as his excuse to get off it

[Irrelephant11]

Never lynch outside of me/Pine/Flavor Leaf/Cinnamon until scum flips

[Irrelephant11]

Never lynch outside of me/Pine/Flavor Leaf/Cinnamon until scum flips

Why is Baezu not on this list?

I was feeling like the numbers were there to rush towards a lynch and that I might be an option
I wanted to express that if I got lynched it was because an influential scum was among {FL, Pine, Cinn}, without having the time to say more. Once a scum flipped in that group, their most likely partner may/may not be within the group, so I was not saying “lynch here because it has both scum”

I don’t have tons of time here either, but the summary of what I have to say here is I feel very confident Pine-slot is scum

[Irrelephant11]

I also would like to apologize to cinnamon who I am currently townreading much more strongly than I was before; I think I was too excited by the idea of catching out scum!me (I won my first newbie game as scum) that I ignored some very town indicative moments for you

Your revelation that your scumread of me was a test for the replacement was extremely clever if scum - it untunneled me from you

I’m not certain you’re town but I am pretty confident Pine is scum and also pretty confident you’re not his partner

[Irrelephant11]

And also pretty confident your town tbh

[Irrelephant11]

Teacher, Voted, and Menalque are now so town I am 99% sure I will not vote them this game
I am confident enough that cinnamon is town that I am 99% sure I will not vote cinnamon before a lylo situation with the above players
I have no other analysis to add before Pine flips (someone flip Pine soon please)

[Irrelephant11]

My of-the-moment thought is a Pine red flip would make me want to lynch Baezu, and a Pine green flip would make me want to flip Flavor
If Pine flips green here though my jaw will drop

[Irrelephant11]

Yes
Flavor is either wrong or informed
Baezu is trying to keep his partner alive or is the only towny not swayed by your and my bad town leading

[Irrelephant11]

But Pine’s “Irrelephant is scummy but we should keep him alive” is exactly the kind of surrvavlistic-But-don’t-want-to-look-survivalistic I’d expect from scum!Pine so I feel pretty good about this flip
When this flips red just lynch through Baezu > Flavor > cinnamon for the win

Pedit: is Menalque not interested in a Pine flip? I’ve been skimming the past few pages to check there isn’t a new wagon, I figured I could catch up in the night phase
Anyway those are my thoughts I’m no scumhunting god but this one feels solvable

[Irrelephant11]

I am! Sunburned but happy

[Irrelephant11]

Lol i was shocked when I got a PM about this game i completely forgot it existed because it felt like we won already
Still leaning Baezu but maybe I’ll do some VCA later and see if it shows something new

[Irrelephant11]

What “early claim”?

[Irrelephant11]

I continue to maintain I will never be voting for teacher, Voted, or cinnamon until those are my only options
Flavor, you say Baezu reads you accurately when you’re town. Why couldn’t scum!Baezu be doing that here?

I do not have an inno on Flavor

[Irrelephant11]

Yeah I came to the conclusion during the night phase teacher is probably the one I’d vote for out of the three
But not before lylo


I think you’re again just wrong and it’s just Baezu

[Irrelephant11]

I continue to maintain I will never be voting for teacher, Voted, or cinnamon until those are my only options
Flavor, you say Baezu reads you accurately when you’re town. Why couldn’t scum!Baezu be doing that here?

I do not have an inno on Flavor

There’s zero reason for her to do it because if I go down, she’s likely next, and her town reading me doesn’t save me.

From my perspective, the scum was near 100% bussing yesterday, which is why it was stagnated.

What do you think scum!Baezu’s play is here? Because I feel like I’m looking at it
Why would scum bussing make the game stagnant? I feel like that’s more characteristic of scum refusing to bus and town being too polite to hammer a rep out

[Irrelephant11]

But you won’t be around.

I lol’d

Cinnamon is saying true things about who should be claiming
I’m with teacher that anyone else should hold off on a claim because we can autowin by having PRs survive the night and also still maybe win if they don’t
We can’t autowin if we out now

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: Baezu
Because it’s one of these two so I’m gonna use my vote y’know

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: teacher

Agreed

VOTE: teacher

Cinnamon- from the beginning, he came across as town 39. He pointed out the L-1 gag 52 and just got townier from there 342

Eggs- I still don’t like his “explanation” for getting involved in the L-1 gag. I really think this was set up by scum to cause confusion in the game. Since then, though he’s been very townie 166 and 759

FL- to me he’s obvstown this game- to the point that I’m scumpecting everyine who reads him as otherwise

Irrel- I didn’t like his opening posts 12 and 25. He instigated the L-1 gags, which is death in a newbie game because it just confuses everyone. His vote on cinnamon 70 is just bad! He is “unsure” a lot which is usually a town tell but I can’t help but feel that the way he’s doing it is coming across more as “confused” scum. Also, hating his interaction with teacher- it just seems SvS

Menalque- town

Pine- I disagree with voted that when he thought he was hammered he came across as scummy. I thought he came across as more towny, actually. I just think this slot is such an easy mislynch that scum is all over it

Teacher- I don’t like his response to irrel vote on him 319, I don’t like how he keeps insisting on Rayo claiming and I really don’t like how he points to the thread greet as a newbscum tell

Voted- don’t like 359. He also points to thread greeting. He flat out role fishes in 672 and then he thinks pine’s defense post “hammer” is scummy

Thinking scum team is elephant/voted

VOTE: voted

I feel like this conversation isn’t helping scum hunt...if you’re town, please contribute to town

This has been part of my problem with your game this game- you haven’t been really towny

This ISO isn’t from town

[Irrelephant11]

I would appreciate some time to double check a few things before hammer. I still lean FL town

[Irrelephant11]

I don’t think we should claim who we *will* aim for because scum can prevent guilties
If I am PR my crumbs will be clear in retrospect

[Irrelephant11]

Yay good game everyone!

This was a great playerlist and all you newbies are awesome! I’ll provide more thoughts later maybe

[Irrelephant11]

Cinnamon - You're great! I agree with teacher's analysis that your thoughts and words read as though you've really thought them through - that sorta cuts against site meta for towniness, which is part of why I scumread you, but it also made your analysis really clear and useful! Hopefully I won't tunnel you next time, because I really enjoyed playing with you once I started reading you accurately.
Voted - your gambits were more useful in getting me to townread you than in accomplishing what the gambits were for, I think. But keep trying things out! I liked the pressure to get Pine to claim especially. - the only thing here is I was pretty sure you were TPR based on the fact that a vt wouldn't know which of Pine's claims would be a lie. You got away with it, here, though. Nice.
Menalque - Way to town. it. up. You were obviously town, mostly due to your deep level of thought. Good luck replicating that as scum later!
Eggs - Strong analysis, clear reads, the ability to communicate well? You're a threat to any scumteam.

Uncle Bob and navneet - I hope you two return! You both had strong scum entrances and I definitely wouldn't have scumread you so strongly if you had just... kept playing!

teacher - the best town partner, as always <3
Flavor - Sorry I couldn't shout down your mislynch sooner! In my defense I didn't think you'd self vote.

[Irrelephant11]

If y'all liked the small playerlist, but want a wide variety of setups - check out the Micro Queue, where all games are 9 players or less! Right now skygazer's Black Site is in signups - NOTE: It uses the Geriatric Ruleset, which limits how often you are allowed post, to allow for a slower game that is easier to keep up with.
It just so happens there's also a 9-player game in signups in the Normal Queue, where the setups are hidden but follow Official Normal Setup Guidelines. Sign up soon, it's filling fast!
And what a coincidence, there's a 9-player game in the Open Queue, where all setups are public information. Grey Flag Nightless makes small changes to some basic rules of mafia, and there are no power roles.

You are not required to have any number of finished games to join these or other queues, so check them out! If you want to play another game with me, the one game I'm in signups for is Schadd's Mystery Box of Silver 5, a large theme game with a heavy third party (alignments other than town or mafia) element. Schadd is notorious for making setups that are impossible to predict and that lead to gameplay that is equally unpredictable. It's a HUGE jump from the newbie queue, but it's never too early to get absolutely in over your head

[Irrelephant11]

And, sadly, that schadd game does have an experience requirement, otherwise I’d be signing up

Whoops! true. I'm sure we'll run into each other again though