Newbie 1959 | Stuff I Found Online Xv | Over

[Yodavader]

Hi everybody. This is my first game of Forum's Mafia since WotC forums about 10 years ago. VOTE: AaronFrost because the cold never bothered me anyways...

[Yodavader]

So let me understand, after all this voting, we get the results, but what's next phase?

Yes, after the vote, the day ends and the person voted dies. Then night happens and people who have night roles can do their shenanigans. All vanilla townies just get to go to sleep until the night is over. Once night is over, the night action happens and then new day starts. We then take the actions of the previous day(s) (who voted for who, who argued with who, etc) and try to figure out who is who.

[Yodavader]

Yeah, we are still on Day 1.

[Yodavader]

I’m hating the slowness of the game. I’ve got like 2 reads out of rand and we are a couple days in. Let’s try some getting to know you questions to hopefully start things off into the week. All slots kindly answer.

1. What is your experience at Mafia
2. How do you play as town
3. How do you play as scum
4. What do you think gives away a player as scum or town
5. Time zone/standard posting times

1. I used to play a decent amount about 10+ years ago on the WotC forums. This is my reintroduction game.
2. Make really bad reads and try to understand people's arguments, but tend to lurk a lot because I don't know what to say.
3. Make really bad reads and try to understand people's arguments, but tend to lurk a lot because I don't want to out myself. Though in my first game ever, I did roll scum and I played the noob card (WIFOM) to win.
4. Tend to jump the reactions and try to quick start a bandwagon.
5. Currently deployed, so mostly in the afternoon here, but at night for you guys. I'm in the Philippines right now.

[Yodavader]

Alright, since teacher's questions didn't really spark up activity levels too much, I'll throw in a question of my own and see where it gets us.

If you had to lynch somebody right now, who would it be and why?

I'd probably lynch Salad. Didn't like his quick unvote after voting Spartan and his vote on Spartan seemed very opportunistic to begin with.

If I had to lynch someone right now, I would go after Spartan. I know that he was trying to get reactions but putting someone on the literal chopping block just for said reaction is not very townie.

Alright time to turn things up a notch in here VOTE: Teacher

L-1

If anyone has intent to hammer announce so that he has a chance to roll claim.

But since we are not at the point of lynch or no lynch yet, I will officially UNVOTE: AaronFrost

[Yodavader]

So, for this whole Teacher at L-1 thing, I understand that it's everyone's reaction to panic. No one wants to be put in that position, especially this early in the game (day 1) and on page 2, and in a newbie game. I am along the lines of Teacher being town at the moment.

Teacher Lynch
Bottom Text

VOTE: Teacher

I understand this was RVS, so no harm, no foul.

Well since there's no point now.

UNVOTE: teacher

This happened after the L-1 issue.

-snip-

What was the point before? If pressure, why not vote Salad or Frost now to build a wagon?

Any actual thoughts on what people have said?

I've been following this thread for the past few days but i'm not quite sure what to gather from anything.

Spartman seems the strangest since he hammered you and almost got you lynched.

VOTE: Spartan117

He says he has been following along but gave a pretty weak answer to teacher's question.

Alright, since teacher's questions didn't really spark up activity levels too much, I'll throw in a question of my own and see where it gets us.

If you had to lynch somebody right now, who would it be and why?

I'd probably lynch Salad. Didn't like his quick unvote after voting Spartan and his vote on Spartan seemed very opportunistic to begin with.

Actually, I think Spartan's actions were more of a "to get the ball rolling" move. Voting Saladman up to L-2 seems like good pressure to get a role read, like he said he wanted.

UNVOTE: Spartan117

-snip-

He goes and does almost the exact same thing that he voted Spartan for. "To get the ball rolling"

VOTE: George

[Yodavader]

I'm sure being at L-1, no matter what point in the game, should make people panic. No one wants to leave the game early.

[Yodavader]

-snip-

I'mma be straight honest here, I'd rather be killed in Night 1 and have my death help Town track down the Mafia than have a mislynch D1.

-snip-

I have always gone with lynching, even if it's a mislynch. IMO, a no lynch doesn't give as much information as a mislynch.

[Yodavader]

I am willing to take a chance at hitting scum on a lynch day. Worst case scenario, we hit a PR but we gain info by who voted for who and who abstained, as Spartan said here (colorization for emphasis)

-snip-

I'mma be straight honest here, I'd rather be killed in Night 1 and have my death help Town track down the Mafia than have a mislynch D1.

-snip-

I have always gone with lynching, even if it's a mislynch. IMO, a no lynch doesn't give as much information as a mislynch.

I agree with yoda here.

With a lynch whether it be town or scum thats lynched, you get to see the journey to it, giving you information on those who pushed it, those who didnt and stayed off, and everything in between.
With just the night kill all the information you get is the persons role and half the alignment of the convos that person had with other people which anyone can say it is just a TvT argument without the pressure, with a lynch you get the reactions of the person lynched and all those involved

, so for Chibiie to go through the effort of avoiding lynching is anti town imo, not sure yet if its necessarily scummy, I want to know what everyone else thinks on this.

When you admit to everyone that you are trying not to lynch anyone the weight of your words to them and your vote lose a lot of value and pressure.

Next scenario is we hit Vanilla Town. Again, same info as above, but this time, we keep our PRs.

Best case scenario is we hit scum. Again, same info as above, though this time, we can try to find out if someone was defending/avoiding said scum. And it's now become 1 vs 7.

So yes, I would gladly mislynch vs no lynch. And lynching is really the only weapon that town has against scum. If we are afraid to use it, they have already won.

[Yodavader]

Never seen him scum.

117 is gross af.

I’m in school so pretty limited

It stinks right? or am I just missing some sort of meta where he acts all random looking for a lynch.

My issue with you putting things down to his townmeta especially now I know youve not seen his scum meta is what if they both look the same, what if this is scumsalad?

I do agree that this is weird for this late in the day. Basically doing RVS now and with no content especially with all the new talk that's been going on is definitely anti town.

My bottom 3 are Dong(maybe), Salad(more than likely), George(more than likely).

[Yodavader]

Because I think Merfin is safer choice over you.

Plus, 122 doesn't make much sense, wouldn't we know that we're on a team? Why would I vote him?

Scum1 will vote for scum2 to distance themselves, especially if they know that the other person is caught. That way, they(1) can say that they were town because they(1) were part of the vote that lynched scum2.

This could also be used to disprove a cop roleclaim if it's the last day. The cop could roleclaim and say "I investigated player X and he is scum". But if scum1 was on the bandwagon before it was proved to be a bandwagon, then they could argue that the cop roleclaim is actually scum and just trying to fake claim so that the town can vote for a "townie" and scum wins. You know what I mean?

[Yodavader]

What are your thoughts on a replacement player and the info from the replaced player. Do you play them as new players/clean slate or do you play them as they are both the same player? I have been lucky and have never had a game with a replaced player.

[Yodavader]

So, I leave and come back and there's 3 new pages???

Anyways, looking at people's activities:

You all have the right to remain silent, anything you say can and will be used in my next Mini Normal as flavour.

That being said VOTE: Teacher, you can’t teach newbies.

This is RVS, so again as with George, no harm, no foul.

Where in that did I say I wanted to hammer someone page 2
Additionally please tell me what is anti-town about self voting during the RVS on the first page? What does it tell you about my alignment if anything?

1. Nowhere, but you opened up an opportunity for a lolhammer or your partner to hammer.
2. In my last game, one player self voted in RVS and everyone jumped on that vote.

So yeah, it’s a really bad and scummy idea to L-1 this early, especially in a 9p game. VOTE: Spartan117

Ok, so he voted for Spartan because of putting teacher at L-1. I can understand that, as I have stated before about my thoughts on IF we had to lynch at that point in the game, I would have thrown my vote on Spartan too.

2. If someone votes themselves and others jump on the wagon and vote him, what does that say about their alignment? What was the alignment of this player in your last game?

Nothing, but it’s anti-town to start the wagon. The player was VT, self voted and did nothing but made him look scummy. The next day he self hammered. UNVOTE:

Don’t wanna risk a mislynch, much like Mini 2099.

I voted him to avoid the lolhammer of teacher and now I unvoted for some bullshit reason...

Ok, so what was the BS reason?

I agree, we need to lynch anyone today, rn I honestly don’t care if it’s a mislynch today, info is better none. So let’s spice things up.
Using random.org I will vote one of the top 2 wagons.
Heads = Spartan
Tails = Dong
random.org says

Tails

VOTE: Dong

Nowhere in his previous posts has he said anything about his thoughts on Dong, yet Dong is one of his choices. Sure, this was after the teacher/Dong back and forth, but still you should have some ideas as to why you think Dong is scum.

I used randomness because of my indecisiveness. May I ask why you’re keeping your vote on Merfin?

Actually, VOTE: Spartan for now, I’ll wait for dong to come back from v/la.

Again, I don't see any real thought as to why. It looks like he is just trying to jump on whatever wagon is there.

Plus, I know that my post count is the lowest but if you look at the actual content, I think Salad has had the least to add. I only mention this because people keep talking about my post count. I honestly think that Merfin added more to the game than Salad. At least Merfin had a post explaining why they voted for someone and had examples.

VOTE: Salad

[Yodavader]

-snipping my quote so that it's not adding to the wall of text-

First, I said for some bullshit reason because I actually forgot why. I put dong on there because they were one of the top 2 wagons. I voted spartan because I wanted to wait for dong, but I should’ve unvoted instead.

So, you are basically saying that you will just +1 whatever the biggest wagon is currently?

[Yodavader]

Honestly hope to god that I learned how to quote, but here you can see what I compiled up in my previous post.

When you multi quote, if you want to add your thoughts on them, just make sure you type your thoughts between the [/quote] (the end of the actual quote) and the next

(the beginning of the next quote). Also, there is a Preview button at the bottom and you can use that to make sure that your post looks the way you want it to.

[Yodavader]

I do agree that this is weird for this late in the day. Basically doing RVS now and with no content especially with all the new talk that's been going on is definitely anti town.

My bottom 3 are Dong(maybe), Salad(more than likely), George(more than likely).

Seeing as my bottom 3 haven't changed since I last posted this list, I am happy with VOTE: Dong.

[Yodavader]

That should put Dong at L-1.

[Yodavader]

Isn't Dong at L-2 now, since Aaron changed his vote?

Also, I only defended Dong because I didn't like Teacher's claim. That's it.

You are correct. I missed the Aaron vote move.

[Yodavader]

There are only 30 hours now (5pm gmt on tuesday I believe), till the deadline, can we get some traction on activity please as we need more discussion before the lynch.

Plus, no one claims on page 2.

Bad post.
If you actually saw what spartan was trying to do there it wasnt to get a claim, nor to lynch. It was to put enough pressure for both teachers and the people on his wagons activity to rise. Scumreading him on such a thin basis is in itself scummy.

Time to do the same strat I guess, VOTE: Dong

L-1

I still don't like Salad's activity. This may be the rust in my game talking but I really haven't seen any kind of scum hunting from Salad. Just a lot of parroting and wagoning.

[Yodavader]

My bottom 3 are Dong(maybe), Salad(more than likely), George(more than likely).

Come to think of it, why did you put Dong on your Scum list?

@YodaVader

I don't think you've ever specified your reason.

Sorry, I thought I did. It must have been one of the drafts I was making but changed my mind in the middle and went looking elsewhere.

You also share a factional PT, located here, where you may talk

at any time

.

Are you anxious to chat with your scummate, and thats why you're asking?

Dude, you’re an SE - at least try to know the setup or not create this level of wifom (and yes, I’ve seen decimal make this exact ploy before. Not sure I like it here.

Mhm.
Even if they have daychat its like that scum wont have any meaningfull conversation until night falls. Wouldnt you agree? Maybe thats what i was aiming for?

Okay, so here, I forgot who was an SE and who wasn't. Since Dong is an SE, he should know how quickly hammers can happen with no time to explain to others why the hammer shouldnt fall.

Alright, i gotta make do with what i already have here.

I dont like teachers response to getting wagoned. He posts about an hour later he is at l-1 and immediatly lashes out onto aaron for not unvoting even though he isnt on his wagon.

Why do you want teacher to claim? Do you intend on lynching him today?

This is a terrible response to L-1 from somebody who is on my wagon.

Now i agree that this would be a bad post had he actually been on his wagon, and even though aaron wasnt i still have a bone to pick with it but the gist is this: teacher was panicking here.

Now lolhammers are a common enough occurence on newbie games, enough to keep an eye out or even panic at times.

However an experienced player like teacher, had he rolled town shouldnt have problem keeping calm at l-1. I feel like town!teacher here would have tried to explain the implications of a L-1 this early and panicked later. I believe that he also would have townread this at first glance.
Of course him disappearing right after that doesnt do him any favors either i dont think. Somethings wrong with his playstyle, yet i cant quite put my finger on it right now. I guess i'll have more substantial stuff later in the game.

Besides that im not liking saladmans activity. He seems to post a lot, yet almost all of them lack substance.

I'm still on the idea that anyone would be panicked if they were pushed to L-1, in a newb game, on Page 2. It doesn't matter if you are an experienced player or not. Everyone wants to survive in the game as long as they can and as he pointed out above (see bolded and colored section), this seems like the perfect time to panic. I assume lolhammers happen in experienced games too but in a newb game, the hammer could come down and there would be no time to explain the logistics of why L-1ing this early was bad. So panic in this situation does not imply scum, in my eyes.

Dong immediately after 39:

teacher is a pretty relaxed player overall so i dont think the response is telling.

Dong now, about 39:

teacher was panicking here.

Um, what??

VOTE: Dong

Yup, you just compounded my argument further.
You are a very relaxed player yet you clearly panicked there.
These two things dont contradict, they compliment.

See previous comment.

@Dong

I think aarons reaction to the vote is also pretty bad, it reads as though hes more concerned on where he is at when/if a lynch occurs rather than getting a scum lynch through. The whole convo reads like TvS and if i had to pick a side i'd say aarons the goon here.

Can you elaborate more on this?

Sure can.

At that point i thought town!you would be more concerned with trying to persuade spartan out of l-1ing teacher. Your posts seem more like you're trying to seem reasonable without taking any action, what with asking spartan if he wants a lynch. On surface level it seems like a natural enough question but definitely not the question to be asking at page 2. I think a town response would be more in line with "the fuck?"

So here, it seems like Dong was saying that a "the fuck" response is town, yet teacher's "the fuck" is scummy?

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I legitimately think that teacher thought I was voting for him when I posted 37 so his reaction seemed genuine. He also did explain the implications of L-1 after that. I agree that what I posted there would've been pretty hypocritical if I was voting for teacher at that moment.

What 'bone' do you have to pick with 37?

Im pretty sure that teacher actually thought you were voting him. And his reaction is natural.
For scum.
Expanding on post 102 (or perhaps reiterating) an experienced town player would keep calm and explain spartan that this isnt something he should be doing and level with him. A panicking scum tries to get out of l1 as quickly as possible before a lolhammer.

I can see that Dong thought teacher made a mistake in naming Aaron in his reaction when Aaron wasn't a part of the wagon but I think honest mistakes are null.

So, to me, there is a lot of inconsistencies with Dong's arguments.

[Yodavader]

Well, hell. 2 of my bottom 3 are gone.

-snip-

This is the kind of kill I see coming from someone who's experienced with mafia and/or someone who's being coached by an experienced player. I think at least one of our remaining SE (Salad/teacher) players is scum.

teacher is by far the towniest of the two, but I don't want to rule him out completely. I've learned that even the most obvtown players can still turn out to be scum and according to teacher, he obvtowns it up as either alignment. He was also the driving force behind the Dong lynch yesterday, which does concern me a bit. However, Salad is easily the scummier looking of the two. For now...

VOTE: Salad

It might also be worth taking a look at who George (and to a lesser extent, Dong) were scumreading and how the other players interacted with those slots.

During the night phase, I was also thinking this. That one of the SE's could be scum. Again, just like you, I also think that teacher is the towniest person here.

As for why scum chose to kill George? That I have no idea.

Out of all the people that could have been NK, the obv choice, IMO, would have been teacher. To me, he is the person who has the biggest voice in the game right now. So that has me thinking that if he didn't get the NK, then could he be scum? I still think that Salad's a better choice but now I don't know.

I'm still inclined to vote for Salad but as he is already at 2 votes, I'll hold off for now. I don't want to L-1 him at this early in the day but my intent is there. I think it should be 7 alive, 4 to lynch.

[Yodavader]

My bottom 3 are Dong(maybe), Salad(more than likely), George(more than likely).

Remember this? I think I can connect some dots now, but it is just a speculation, BUT I might be correct, idk.

So my list with my reasons is strange? They all gave me a reason to be skeptical about their alignment.

Scum1 will vote for scum2 to distance themselves, especially if they know that the other person is caught. That way, they(1) can say that they were town because they(1) were part of the vote that lynched scum2.

Next post after saying this (distance of 72 posts, lol a few pages later), he votes against Salad after having somewhat kind of logic behind, but IMO that logic was scumlogic which himself wrote it right ^there (#205).

I thought I was just answering George's question from post 199.

Because I think Merfin is safer choice over you.

Plus, 122 doesn't make much sense, wouldn't we know that we're on a team? Why would I vote him?

Plus, I know that my post count is the lowest but if you look at the actual content, I think Salad has had the least to add. I only mention this because people keep talking about my post count. I honestly think that Merfin added more to the game than Salad. At least Merfin had a post explaining why they voted for someone and had examples.

VOTE: Salad

This is what makes me a little uncomfortable, because I see Yoda going against Salad, but not before posting #205 and neither before #186. It is a little sketchy because I have the feeling that I've solved the game, but at the same time I have a strong feeling that one of them is Town, but not both.

It is true that I didn't say anything about Salad before this post. I believe I was looking into George at the time and decided to go hunting for more possibilities. That's when I stumbled upon Salad and his active lurking.

Another thing that makes me suspicious of Yoda is that he doesn't really share thoughts and has mostly replied with one-liners that are not helpful to solving the game.

I guess that's because during the main parts of the conversation, things I would have said were already stated and I didn't want to come off as parroting. My mistake for keeping a low-ish profile.

[Yodavader]

Ok, noted. I'll try to be more involved.

[Yodavader]

I think the George NK was more of a throw off kill. I mean they're always going to looking for PR but I didn't see anything in his posts that would indicate PR. Again, I would have thought that they would go after the more influential townies, like teacher, which again, makes me think why would they not go after him?

I do agree with Aaron about them doing us a favor with George. I was still reading him as scum though I still rated him higher than Salad. My intent is still on Salad though.

[Yodavader]

Also, here is my current list:

Town:
Yoda (obv)
Chibiie
Aaron
Spartan

Null:
teacher - was super town to me until N1, but if I had to choose, I would still say town-ish
G1mmick - need to actually take a closer look

Scum:
Salad - already stated reasons and nothing has changed my mind about this yet

[Yodavader]

@Yoda, who do you think is “my partner”?

I'm still working on that. I have this gut feeling that it's someone on my town list that's really good at hiding. I just don't know which one. And no, it's not me....

[Yodavader]

@yoda, if you had to choose one person from your town list to be “my partner” who would it be?

The only person I could choose from my list that is town/town-leaning would probably be teacher. Again, IMO, he was the clear cut NK choice and it didn't happen. I tried to come up with reasons on the others but couldn't find anything that gave an inkling of nontown.

[Yodavader]

Have been quite busy today but here is a rough take from what I've seen from skimming through the posts on my phone,

I get the sense that everyone seems to be scumreading salad, and I defo was and am still very suspect of his behaviour, lack of input if he is town, but It strikes me as odd that if everyones scumreading him and seems prepared to lynch him, that he doesnt have a scum buddy, and by default would be town, I'm not saying he is but its definitely making me think that it could actually be the case.

Yeah, I'm still very intent on voting for salad, and more so now because his defense of "whose my scum buddy?" doesn't help us out, unless that's a new/good argument that's started since I last played.

I thought teachers post on George and how he reveals his VT role irl d1 was interesting, as its more than possible that the NK could have been orchestrated by a experienced player, killing George with the idea in mind to distance themselves with reasoning to nk George, as others stated they thought he was killed because of his pr potential while teacher claims that to be readable early on. I just dont feel as town you need to distance yourself from it in such a way, idk maybe that's just me.

I thought that was a stretch. I know people will claim through hidden messages but even that's a bit much.

I'm liking Yodas increase in activity

Thanks, I'm trying.

[Yodavader]

-snip-

I can also see a potential Yoda/Gimm1ck or Yoda/Chibiie scum team too.

My bottom 3 are Dong(maybe), Salad(more than likely), George(more than likely).

Two of Yodas main scum reads are revealed to be town, the other one is Salad who everyone seems to read as scum.

I don't see how who I read as scum, with my thoughts, turning out to be town paints me as scummy.

I still don't like Salad's activity. This may be the rust in my game talking but I really haven't seen any kind of scum hunting from Salad. Just a lot of parroting and wagoning.

While this may be true, I can also see this as deflection from yodas own lack of posting and scum hunting.

-snip-

I still know that I tend to not post a lot. But I think I try to add some kind of content when I do post.

I don't think I have ever looked for scum buddies, per se. I tend to just look at who I think is towniest and scummiest. I don't really try to combine people together. That's why I had a hard time answering the question of who I thought was Salad's scum buddy. My answer had nothing to do with who distanced themselves away from Salad or tried to divert attention away. My answer was more of who I thought could be the other person. I guess I tend to play this game as winning the endgame. If one scum survives, they both win. Just like as long as town wins, we all win.

[Yodavader]

Assuming that Gimm1ck isn't lying, I am going to VOTE: Salad.

Im loving that everyone motivated (or pretend motivated) to do NKA. And I agree with a lot of it - I do think this was a PR snipe attempt, or an attempt to avoid the obvious protection candidates (Aaron>me).

Im most suspect of those that didnt find a PR hint. On rereading, I thought the repeating word could be a role claim.

1. What is your experience at Mafia
This is my first game. But I've a lot of the variants of Mafia.



2. How do you play as town
I'm guessing you gotta just be

friendly

and deduce suspicious actions
3. How do you play as scum
I'm guessing I have to be secretive and get innocents lynched
4. What do you think gives away a player as scum or town

Scum:

Eagerness to Vote, defending player for no reason.

Town:

Friendly?

Skeptical of baseless lynches.
5. Time zone/standard posting times
EDT

To be clear, it wasnt a claim, and I didnt think it was. In fact, I thought George claimed VT in his first post.

Teacher Lynch

Bottom Text

VOTE: Teacher

With VT being the initials of the bottom text.



The r

EBWOP: The reasoning -- avoid protective candidates, and seeing friendly neighbor possible claims -- suggests to me that we are in Row B.

What I find interesting is that teacher put out there that we could be in Row B and Gimm1ck's claim would fall under that possibility. So, that is the one thing that's put a little doubt in my mind.

If Gimm1ck is lying, he could have used this post as path to find a plausible role to claim.

But as of right now, I don't see any reason for Gimm1ck to lie.

[Yodavader]

From the recent activity, I don't think that we are going to hear much from Salad.

[Yodavader]

I think that the Aaron/Chibiie conflict is more of a town v town situation. I don't think that Chibiie's position change was too unnatural.

[Yodavader]

I think that the Aaron/Chibiie conflict is more of a town v town situation. I don't think that Chibiie's position change was too unnatural.

If you think chibiie and aaron are both town, do you think Gimm1ck is lying on his tracker claim, otherwise who do you think are the two people in the scum team?

With Gimm1ck's claim, I guess that my scum team would be Salad/teacher. This is all based on what I thought would have happened Night 1. I'm pretty sure that Salad is scum.

[Yodavader]

Any info Gimm1ck?

[Yodavader]

GG everyone. It was fun. Congrats on the win Chibiie and teacher.