Newbie 2014: Aesthetic | Game Over

[Mikul]

VOTE: town looter

For losing last game

[Mikul]

to the newbies: welcome! I don't recognize any of you, so I'm assuming we have some first timers. A few tips: this is mafia, people are going to accuse you of being a liar and a cheat. It's gonna feel bad. The sooner you can get used to it the better for you. People are also going to attack you for what you say. As a member of the town, you should be sharing your thoughts anyway, and with time you will learn how to share your thoughts without getting attacked.
You should take some time to carefully read the above posts and familiarize yourself with some of the jargon and guides, especially if you have no mafia experience or no experience with forum mafia. The SEs are here to offer help, but do not take our word as law. I think even if we are scum none of us would tell lies that would confuse you or make you bad players, but there is a decent chance that at least one of us is scum and will lie to you about some things. That said, you shouldn't hesitate to ask questions of each other and if the SEs. The two other SEs are a lot more experienced than i.

To everyone, but especially the SEs: please view this post as nai. Again to the newbies: don't assume that just because I'm trying to be helpful that im a townie. Is make this post a scum too.


VOTE: brass omgus

If you are being helpful, you are typically town confirmed.

So questions I have

1) why does your profile picture look like it's taking a poo
2) what does mafia stand for
3) who are your voting for this year?

[Mikul]

VOTE: brass omgus

What is omegalulus?

[Mikul]

UNVOTE: Townlooter

VOTE: Votato (horse poo)


I don't like the tone of your tone sir. Your voice sounds off

[Mikul]

VOTE: brass omgus

What is omegalulus?

Omgus means "Oh my god you suck" which translates to "I'm voting for you, because you voted for me."

So it's not Omegalul

[Mikul]

Either way votato is a part of the bad guys, we should murder him promptly

[Mikul]

Also I disagree with the term "lynching" , it's not PC in 2020. I will refer to lynching as removing forcefully off the island against their will

Or ROI (remove off island )

Only you can be the change you want.

[Mikul]

That being said we need to Lynch horse poo

[Mikul]

VOTE: town looter

For losing last game

A good vote to be sure.

VOTE: Mikul

Once scum, always scum

Don't make me omegelus you

[Mikul]

Do it. JFDI!

Are you going to post more than 7 times this game ?

[Mikul]

As a little bit of a tldr about me for people who have never played with me. I'm Mike, Mikal, or Mikul. Any of the three is fine. I have been passively playing mafia for around 59 years , and I started when I was 18. I am a pagan and I worship Odin. It's my lifelong dream to go to Valhalla. I'm 6'6 , 250 pounds of raw untethered muscle. I enjoy long walks in dark alleys and I actively try to avoid ritualistic sacrifice but sometimes my cravings get the best of me. I prefer women that are shorter than me but that are willing to die with me in battle.

If interested please fill out the below form

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1yFsbXl ... hgAL0/edit

[Mikul]

You I'm a chubby catholic lawyer who went to church a few years back. AMA

1) have you ever been a sugar daddy?
2) is morality objective or subjective?
3) how do you value case law when applied against practical application years down the road?
4) Odin would dunk on Jesus, this is not a question but I figured you needed to know this
5) do you view life as a utilitarian would?

[Mikul]

Okay votato

You non posty, lurky , scummy mother sucker. I saw you posting actively in another game earlier.

I challenge you to a rap battle , 3 rounds. Loser gets lynched

[Mikul]

As a note trying to find a "meta" in mafia is one of the worst ideas ever imo. For very new players it's a good idea but I've seen countless games get loss because (x) plays town this way, or (y) is scum that way. Anyone with half a brain cell would tend to work their gameplay around and attempt to use that

[Mikul]

Also not that I need to defend myself, because you haven't seen me play as town. The reason to the spam posting is 2 fold

1) This site has good players but the pace of the games move like a snail. This is inherently anti town. The less a game posts, the easier it is to fail as town because of a lack of information. Every read someone gives, every vote someone casts is something you can look at in iso at the end of the game to help narrow down scum. So allowing people to coast by and not probe activity is a horrible idea, it's also why you guys lost last game. You allowed Luna at the end of the game to craft a very specific story and go along with the flow. Giving scum time to lurk is always bad

2) as we also learned last game, typically the troll or vocal person is a very easy mislynch to push for. So yes while spamming is fluffy, it also allows me to see who's votes end up on me and why. Because getting a bandwagon going on my behavior so far would not be a hard thing to do. So yes I've been watching and waiting to see who ends up on me

[Mikul]

Tbh Mikul has about 60% of the posts so far, slow it down please. Can't keep up!
VOTE: Mikul
I know this is a dodgy tactic but I promise to unvote if you slow down...

You do realize by encouraging inactivity you are basically trying to give scum the game. I do not tend to slow down. I'll sit here and talk to myself all game if need be

[Mikul]

spam is generally unhelpful to town. post whenever you feel you have something to contribute, but dont force yourself to say things.

@looter why would you lynch arthur?

I disagree with this entirely for a lot of reasons

1) What you consider useful, and what other consider useful are entirely separate. So to some degree, depending on what you are aiming to do "anything could be considered spam"
2) How people react to certain things, especially spam are really indicative of intent. If someone tries to push a lynch on someone that is inactive or spamming, i can possibly be a scum tell because it's an easy lynch. It can also be valid.

But I think flooding is a bad thing, and people should post their thoughts regardless of whether they think its useful or not

[Mikul]

So a few quick little reads:
@Mikul - leaning scum? - I'm not sure about flooding, but imo scum tend to do it a lot so town can't keep up. Yoy say flooding is a bad thing, although you're doing that yourself. Metareading isn't always reliable, but it can be useful. I did a quick metaread of your last game - as scum you were pretty confident and overjustifying things. Kinda similar to how you're behaving right now.
@Looter - neutral - Well he wants to lynch me and I'm still waiting for a reply. Also voted Mikul earlier based on metareading? Not really strong enough to lynch someone on.
Everyone else needs to post more.

That was typed from my phone and was covered with errors, sorry. Back to my computer now.

That was meant to say flooding "isn't" a bad thing. I think any post can be good depending on what someone can draw from it, and I objectively would take flooding over a game like last game in the last 2 day phases. Inactivity and a lack of posting is typically what can kill town faster than anything, and if people aren't willing to be active then they should consider that before signing up. Not saying that game will be like this, I'll take herald at his word and go along with "it's a weekend" so it will be active later

also that vote was not a hard read, it's a reaction test. Most things I tend to do are reaction tests, especially in dp1 when there is nothing to go off of because no one is participating. But I would much prefer not to just sit here and hope people are active and I'm sure as hell not going to go along with "oh they can't keep up with 60 posts, so stop posting".

[Mikul]

I have no hard scum read, there isn't enough information to assess at the moment

herald has said he will be active in the week.

we have not heard from half the other people

votato has largely just tried to be a coach (which I do find weird). I did glance over his other games to see if he has did this before. As i said I don't read much into meta analysis, but I did figure if he was actively trying to be a mentor in these games that would be a pattern he would do in most of his other games. He has not did that as town in the games that I have seen. So it could possibly could be a way to build cred, but I really don't want to read into that hard. This is my internal bias from reading through the other players games just to acquaint myself with them.

town looter, in the one game that I played with him was always inactive. He was town. So i actually believe he is just generally busy. He has been way more active in this one so far than the last one. Could be scummy, but also could be that he is trying to be active because him being inactive is what cost them the game last game


So to clarify further, so this doesn't contradict what I said earlier. I don't like reading to much into "meta analysis" and that is all I have to go by at the moment. While I think trying to get a hard vote on someone based on what they did in past games is stupid, what they did in past games can also be 1 in several factors that could contribute to a vote. If you have reason to think someone is scummy, and you are dead set they behave this way in other games. That meta analysis should be something to add on top of why you scum read them currently, but not the only reason you scum read them.

[Mikul]

I'm new to this version of mafia, but generally I find spam-posters worth voting out on the first Day, if we have nothing else to go on. At best, they're just cluttering the thread. At worst, it's scum that's using wackiness to make themselves appear benign. I'm hoping Mikul will post a little less spammy over this cycle - if he keeps this up, I think we should go for him.

Again I will certainly not posting and if you aren't capable.of keeping up with a mafia thread then feel free to try and Lynch me and I'll laugh as you take a loss.

I have 0 sympathy.for being lazy and poor play because of it. This is essentially both. If you can't read a thread don't sign up. If I was flooding to floor sure, I've already stated why I was flooding earlier. If you consider what I'm doing now flooding which is actively posting, then again you deserve to lose.

[Mikul]

It means exactly what it said. Saying do not post because I'm to lazy to read is something I will not be doing. Period. Also I am being quite calm, I'm just stating what should be obvious. Someone who has posted one time in the past 48 hours is saying let's lynch someone because they post to much, is a poor reflection of effort.

Granted this is a "newbie' game so I will excuse it as that for now. I've stated my intent for the hyper fluffy posts at the start, but I do agree with votato in that discussing whether it's something to keep reflecting on at this point is a bad idea. I've got what I wanted out of it anyway.

[Mikul]

@mikul:
Calm down, spamming is subjective. He might see it as spam while you don't. And I disagree with you calling that lazy, excessively flooding makes it hard even for active players to keep up. And flooding *is* a legit strat used by scum, so no need to

I agree, it can be scummy. It can also be an way for scum to get a mislynch on dp1 if someone were doing it.

[Mikul]

We don't really seem to be getting anywhere with this and I got what I wanted out of Town looter.
Despite the fact he was defending me, I find @brassherald's last post scummy:

Before we get in this fight, let's remember that tone is hard to read on the internet. Because it's text. Which is why Mark Twain could report on a caveman being discovered in the mountains and people didn't get the joke.

The reason I find that scummy is that he's been inactive for so far, then jumps out with this neutral, peace keeping post. Gives me the impression of a scum who wants to keep his head down and keep things chill.
Anything to say about it?

I would agree with this fully if it were not a begginer game. People that try to mediate stuff are typically scummy but it's the same reason I'm temporarily giving votato a pass for that long post at the start

It's hard to discern whether it's in genuine interest in making the game friendly for new players or a tactic to seem towny.

[Mikul]

Just re read the dp in iso. Posting my notes thus far

I have a slight to pretty good town read on town looter.

Post 36 - This seems like something town would do. I don't think he would try to make that logic as scum because it would get him fosed. I actually believe he thought what I was doing was against my meta. It seems genuine reading back in iso.

Post 58 - I read both the logic to this and the tone of the post as town

Slight Scum read on Arthur.

After reading back and looking for what people mentioned I do consider post 31 weird. I would encourage people to read his posts in iso. I don't think town would have unvoted here because I was not at risk of being hammered or lynched. In iso this especially seems nervous.

The other thing I've noticed with Arthur is he is parroting people

In 68, he tells me to calm down which seems like he copied bras. In 49 he tells me to spam away and agrees with town looter and posts what he says nearly verbatim after telling me to slow down and put a vote on me for it.


The only thing in his favor imo, is logic vs herald in 76. I do agree that peacekeeping seems to be a good thing to do as scum to fight for town cred. It also can be anti scum to break up a fight because scum would want the fight to go on and clutter the dp more. As I'm typing this I'm actually starting to disagree with my initial assessment. I don't think this was anti town of herald.

So yeah , Arthur is where I'm landing now. TL summed this up pretty well, it's very weird posting in iso. "nooby scum" as he called it and I think I agree with that. Will stick my vote there unless something else comes of this dp as this does stick out the most to me in iso

[Mikul]

UNVOTE: Votato

VOTE: Arthur

[Mikul]

its not simply that you unvoted. its the way you went about it. although scum often unvote RVS wagons that approach a lynch out of fear of being on such a bad wagon.
not picking up on humor is actually a very useful tell. Because scum are lying, their brains have a hard time picking up on humor. it could be that you just are incapable of sarcasm/humor, but for your sake i prefer to think that youre scum

I disagree with this somewhat even if it lands us on the same vote. I think he knew it was a joke.

I don't think he wants able to process that because I agree the only way he wouldn't be able to where if he was incapable as a person to pick up humour in text.

I think this goes back to noob scum. And him looking for a reason to fos something to appear like he's contributing

[Mikul]

Fucking phone.


*I don't think it wasn't because he was not able to process it because only someone incapable of humour would have that reason.

[Mikul]

On my phone I'll have major typos because of auto correct and having a hard time spell checking the auto corrects. Ill clarify if a post is worded to weird to interpret

[Mikul]

Mikul seems to want to continue with the game just fine and I don't think being fluffy at the start is a reason to vote right now.

Why would this be a reason to vote at all if I explained the intent is to bait votes. It's literally why we are discussing Arthur at the moment. As i mentioned it's a very easy way for scum to push a mislynch

His vote landed on me with the wagon and then he second guessed himself. Not to talk myself up, but that was because I baited the votes

[Mikul]

why is it that everyone who comes from epicmafia is super cocky?

I'm not from epic mafia, I'm just generally an asshole in forum games. Because it's easier to get reactions from people.

[Mikul]

why is it that everyone who comes from epicmafia is super cocky?

I'm not from epic mafia, I'm just generally an asshole in forum games. Because it's easier to get reactions from people.

I'm generally an asshole in real life, not for any real reason, though.

Heard

[Mikul]

I just want to clarify, I wasn't coming in to defend whatever person didn't get the joke, I just didn't want to read fucking 4 pages about how someone is joking and someone else didn't get it and then its resolved as "Well, that was a waste of time"

I literally can't be bothered to look up the two of their names, but it's not going to be useful content to me for the two of them to bicker about a fucking joke.

Do you actually think their is no value in the fact that he either didn't read it as a joke or acknowledge it as one ?

[Mikul]

Do you actually think their is no value in the fact that he either didn't read it as a joke or acknowledge it as one ?

I do actually think it's not a valuable discussion to have past the first attempt to say he didn't think it was a joke. Either you believe him or not, nothing that's said after that is going to be him saying "Yeah, it's an obvious joke." or the other saying "Yeah, it wasn't an obvious joke." people don't change their minds in these dumb arguments.
[/quote]

I disagree and agree. I get that it's fluffy and stupid but I also think it has merit when you look at obvious it was. While I'm not fully in agreement with votato as to why, I do think it's telling.

But for the record , i townread you because of that. Initially it was more scum read, but I think breaking up stuff to stop clutter has it's town merits and it's consistent with you not wanting to clutter the dp

[Mikul]

SE question: how hard to we push for claims around here? I did some reading on the forum where Mikul is from, and pushing for early claims seems to be the accepted approach. But I haven't seen that used much here. As I type this I am thinking it's because of the setup... Newbie setup is probably too small to push for lots of claims, esp on d1?

pushing for claims dp1 is inherently scummy, the place where i'm from is longer really active. It converted into another site full of horrible players and inactivity. If you are reading there for information on how to play mafia, I would really advise against it. The only reason someone should claim on dp1 is they are they lynch target and hope that claiming can stop it

[Mikul]

SE question: how hard to we push for claims around here? I did some reading on the forum where Mikul is from, and pushing for early claims seems to be the accepted approach. But I haven't seen that used much here. As I type this I am thinking it's because of the setup... Newbie setup is probably too small to push for lots of claims, esp on d1?

pushing for claims dp1 is inherently scummy, the place where i'm from is longer really active. It converted into another site full of horrible players and inactivity. If you are reading there for information on how to play mafia, I would really advise against it. The only reason someone should claim on dp1 is they are they lynch target and hope that claiming can stop it

Oh for some reason I thought you played on debate.org with Lunatic. That was where I saw a lot of claims. That being said, they play mostly themed.

I did, I thought you meant debate art. Debate.org is a pretty good source if you got the right games, debate.art is horrible haha

[Mikul]

I’ll wait for answers, reactions before I post my readslist. Have a good night y’all. Sorry again for not being around earlier.

Going to sleep but will catch up later. I did glance through the first to see if I could respond fast and I can't but the stuff you initially scum read me for was me memeing to get reactions out of people. I've mentioned that a few times. I promise you I'm not voting someone because "the tone of their tone", it was in jest and to try and see if I could get a wagon on me as a reaction test. The rest I'll catch up with tomorrow so I do it justice.

[Mikul]

Arthur there is clear intent to hammer. You may as well claim at this point

[Mikul]

I'll let the group speak for themselves but you are likely the target for this dp unless something drastically changes

[Mikul]

If someone hammers, you are dying next dp and you make this game significantly harder than it has to be.

We will give arthur a chance to claim and use the rest of this dp to keep talking. It's to early to end it

[Mikul]

@porkyboi

This is scummier than the first because the reason is unnecessary, but it’s still there...why do you need to justify an rvs vote at all?

this was a meme and a reaction test for the first part of the game.

This, however, is the scummiest rvs vote there is. Pretending to actually randomize the vote is the epitome of “you can’t read into this vote”. Remember that town should try to become townread. This pseudorandom vote (and by the way it’s against the rules to use provable randomness like the dice tags to vote) is actively avoiding being read at all.

I actually didn't give this much thought, but it's a solid point

I don’t like this unvote at all. Why are you afraid of having someone get to l-1? It makes me think you are either their partner trying to protect them or you are scum who knows they are a mislynch and trying to get town points for getting off the wagon.

I don't think anyone liked this

This seems like an overreaction to me overall. Why not address the accusation head on, instead of discrediting the line of inquiry? I’m not going to get into the meta of meta right now, but I’ll just say this: The Meta is Real.

The accusation head on was that I was not abiding by my meta which does not exist. I would need multiple games on here to have one, which I don't. As far as pointing out why it's a bad idea, I hate bogging down games with "meta" reads, because more often than not, they tend me wrong if not just flat horrible because they are easily abused.

so to tldr this

1) I had no meta to look at so it's an invalid point
2) Even if he thought I had a meta, it's still a bad idea to observe meta behavior instead of looking at behavior in the game at hand. You can use meta as a way to add to reads, but not the sole reason for a read. at least imo

Again, this reads as hyper defensive to me. I’m not ready to call it scum though, as defensiveness comes down more to personality than alignment in my opinion. I don’t think it’s good play as either alignment tho.

nice to meet you, you will see a great deal more of it. I'm really aggressive, and I like to push peoples buttons

The thinking aloud about votato strikes me as odd here.

To clarify, what bugged me about votato was that he was actively posting in other games and not contributing to this one. I also found it weird that he started the game with an "intro post" that seemed awfully friendly. I typically read over games of some people just to have reason to add umph to my choices. Meaning if i'm leaning scum on arthur in this game, I may just a "meta" read, to help me decide on that vote. It's like I said above, while it's not the sole reason for the vote, it's a contributing factor. I just found at that current point, it seemed off his character or what I have seen from him in other games

This “vote me and you deserve to lose” always rubs me the wrong way. Not saying it’s always scum but anytime a player frames the argument as “agree with me or you are stupid”, it pings me the wrong way.

There is no agree with me, That post was just objectively stupid.

What did you get out of it?

a list of people who got on the wagon. This specifically is relevant to Arthur because of that nervous unvote which is the basis of my read, and I would imagine the basis of a lot of reads on him at the moment. Granted I did not pick up on this and it took someone pointing it out, but it was still a result of what the "gambit" at the start with fluff posting

I’m not checking right now but we’re you voting Arthur at this time? If not, why not lay down a vote after your case?

this was the post I voted him, well one post after this if i'm not mistaken. Posted this and put my vote on him to split the posts so I could keep the thoughts separated from the vote itself. It was roughly within a minute i'm sure. The reason I was not on him before I posted this was because someone pointed out the behavior to me and I agreed with it. I forget who it was, I think TL

If Arthur is scum, this is his partner. No reason not to advance the wagon after agreeing with it in substance, and even worse to hedge so verbally.

I noticed this post as odd as well. Not enough to warrant an indepth discussion but enough to tingle my spidey senses.

It is possible to be a toxic jerk and win games because you trigger people and drive people out of their minds and piss them off to where they get demoralized and basically quit. But try to remember that you are playing a game with humans who have feelings and want to have fun. It’s not fun to play with a toxic ass, and it’s kind of missing the point.

maybe not for them, but for me it is. It's a really good way to get reactions from people especially if they are town. Town tends to get more frustrated when they can't adequately convey their case or get people to listen. You can often pick up on this, so I use this as a way to try to get people flustered. I'm not actively ad homing people (most of the time), but yeah putting fire under people, can be a good idea.

Running someone up to l-1 and forcing a claim is SOP. Massclaiming in open games on my day one helps the scum more than the town.

this may have been lost in interpretation, but he said *claims*. I was assuming he meant asking around for claims, not getting a claim from someone that is about to be hammered. I assumed that was common knowledge if any mafia. If you are going down, you have no reason not to claim because if you claim something that can change the mind of others, then it's better than being lynched. I picked that up on probing for claims but def could have misinterpreted.

[Mikul]

Also still waiting for Arthur to claim

[Mikul]

That is not roll fishing, you removed your vote off for the vote that put him at L-1. Roll fishing is making someone claim for no reason, asking for a claim when hes likely the daily lynch is not.

[Mikul]

Fair enough, I don't think I can get off that one either way. At least I don't expect myself to. With the current activity level in this game, I can't see enough posts being generated to change my mind. Maybe I misread that and overstepped but was assuming l2 or l1, there was an intent to hammer or at least intent for a claim.

[Mikul]

for a variety of reasons at this point, even looking back at his iso i don't see any reads he has himself that are notable. It all seems mostly fluff and just trying to engage with people instead of offering insight. I def see that as scummy as well. The tantrum that he through over being nearly lynched I also don't read as town. I think town is typically pissed when they can't convey a point, instead of what is happening to them or in the game. I don't think he's really event attempted to convey a read and that is frustration that he may have been caught

he also could be a noob


but its hard to look past everything he has done so far.

[Mikul]

did you actually just self hammer

[Mikul]

I want to take the time to emphasize this, regardless of your affiliation self hammering ruins the game for the people you are playing with. A lot of votes and pressure on DP1 are manufactured in order to get a reaction out of a player. As porkens noted, wagons come and go. Even pressure that seems genuine can be faked in order to try and push a player to see how they react to that pressure.

Self hammering is never good in any situation. Self voting can have it's uses.

If you are scum, you just fucked your partner
if you are town, you just put us down a lynch and robbed us of 4 more days worth of discussion.

You have no idea if someone was going to unvote, if someone wanted to see you respond before they unvoted. What is more mindfucking is that you didn't even claim before you did this which just baffles me. This continues to be scummy as fuck, granted you have no reason to lie at twilight so I really doubt you are scum

While i'm beyond annoyed that you would do this, i'm actually grateful you did it dp1 instead of later dayphases. I would really advise not doing this again, because it will certainly make people not want to play with you.
This is just all around horrible etiquette and you be shamed for it.

[Mikul]

should be shamed for it*

[Mikul]

for the sake of not losing my temper, I'm going to avoid posting further. If he flips scum, I'll be slightly more happy but still actually feel bad for his partner

But i'm legit tilted as fuck right now

[Mikul]

I'll be here when more activity starts. Focusing on the other games for now. With the lack of activity in this , I've all but gave up on it. I'll contribute as there is useful information, I just don't want to talk to myself. Will post as stuff is relevant.

That self hammer boned us

[Mikul]

There isn't much to post about sadly. I do question Anthony , brass has lurked the entire game. Your slot didn't do anything dp1 and there is no enough to read you off of. If I'm being honest we are likely going to end up lynching off inactivity which is not AI. I have very little hope we win this.

[Mikul]

Better than Anthony

Equal as bad as herald. Maybe slightly better.

The only thing that I give him credit for is that he sounded equally pissed about that retarted self hammer

[Mikul]

If I were lynching off what has been posted it would be some order of

Anothony
Herald
Tl

[Mikul]

TL just seems to agreeable compared to last game. But again with how few posts there are its hard to get any rest. That and most people have been inactive on the weekends so by the time people start to half post the dp is nearly over again.

[Mikul]

2 scum are within Anthony, vex, townlooter and brassherald.

I forget vex was even in the game. That's what I mean

[Mikul]

TL just seems to agreeable compared to last game. But again with how few posts there are its hard to get any rest. That and most people have been inactive on the weekends so by the time people start to half post the dp is nearly over again.

If we put the inactives under pressure they will post. Put anthony at l-1 lets see what happens.

My vote is there in spirit.

I would like him to claim though

[Mikul]

This is going to seem scummy and I don't care. I'm kind of over this game. There is not enough discussion or content to do anything productive.

Going to vote Anthony for a claim and tbh I would probably hammer him if he's at l1. 3 or 4 people have posted around 10 times this game and there is nothing to go off. We are basically yolo lynching off innactivity and I have no interest in caring

[Mikul]

VOTE: Anthony

[Mikul]

If we get replacements that are active or there is activity I'll stay around and post. If not yeah I'll ask for a replacement. I don't want to spend the entire dp talking between our selves , there has to be posts to read and 3 or 4 people have a combined total of like 30 posts. And half of them are just 1 sentence. It's impossible to get anything that way.

It's not giving it, it's accepting that without some type of activity we are going to probability lynch off inactivity and if I'm picking someone with inactivity and that seems scummy it's Anthony.

[Mikul]

@mod am I allowed to screenshot out of game PM's about discussions related to mafia

UNVOTE: Anthony

VOTE: lunatic

[Mikul]

Mafia theory

[Mikul]

We have played together for years and this specifically goes against what he has stated before and I have a pm to prove it.

[Mikul]

I'll tldr it for it now.

" I don't blame you when you get frustrated as town because town is innactive or lazy". He also said it's a big problem on this site a few PM's before that when we were talking about the conclusion of the last game him and I won

If they allow me I'll post this but my vote isn't moving because this was less than a few weeks ago.

[Mikul]

I'll imgur the convo if the mod allows

[Mikul]

I said I'm disinterested until something relevant came up

Word for word

You just directly contradicted what you said less than 2 weeks ago, one within the week. Especially when it's your main complaint on the site. If the mod allows this , I'll confirm it for the others but you have also townread me for this behavior. My vote isn't moving

[Mikul]

Yeah mafia can be frustrating when you get lazy or dumb people on your team as town.

That's the main problem with that site. Its agonizingly slow

Yeah that site is so slow. It's an adjustment

"I'm so glad that game is over. Wish town would have mislynched, I'm so sick of how slow this site is"


All quotes


Those are just the first 4. There is a lot of mafia theory where he states that he loses motivations when town is slow and he has townread me for it before.

[Mikul]

This is a lot of out of game knowledge because I have played with him for years but this directly contradicts with statements he's made and very recently.

[Mikul]

I'm jailkeeper

[Mikul]

And now I'm dead , congrats

[Mikul]

It's also why I didn't push votato harder this dp. I didn't jailkeep him because I believed him. I jail keeped to stop the nk. I was null but wasn't sure.

So Anthony is prob scum

By poe this is tl Anthony or herald. Chance is votato could not carry out the nk but working odd the other Poe

[Mikul]

Nothing is going to excited me about this game and I'm not ashamed. This is horrendously innactive and not fun. I know you are telling the truth and I think you know I am so if someone ccs they die.

Going back to Anthony but I'm also okay with herald

[Mikul]

At least now we can work off Poe

[Mikul]

Mafia has a rb as well and they missed. I want to figure out who they would have targeted and why they could go after porkins.

Will islo later and read who thought porkins was a good player

[Mikul]

And now I'm dead , congrats

Doesn't matter. If no one counter claims you we can POE between the remaining four. If you are killed tonight I get another result with even higher percentage chance of getting scum on them assuming we lynch in those 4 today. If I was scum I would leave you alive and target votato. If thats the case and you protect me still no results but a strong POE pool with the remaining three. If we lynch incorrectly today a 66% chance tomorrow. And if correct a 33% chance assuming votato is killed.

This is relevant to how stupid mafia is , work this out in your head. I won't type why

[Mikul]

It's half and half yes. He's the last Poe pile. We will die over the next 2 days. But I think me and you can solve this now with Poe

[Mikul]

UNVOTE: lunatic

[Mikul]

I'm actually happy you did. If people refuse to post we can work from Poe

There wasn't a reason to care about this game but now there is

I actually am pinging votato town. If I had info on you to try and mislynch you he would not question how I had PM's or if they were correct. This is no ai but I get that as a towny vibe because I feel like he would have went with the flow

And there is a 50 50 chance he would have carried out the nk

[Mikul]

Actually I Wana lynch herald. Check his profile. He's actively playing in another game and has lurked his ass off.

He was also posting on weekends and I remember him saying he doesn't play on weekends much

Also means he may have an innactive partner so he doesn't care.

I'm thinking Anthony and herald

[Mikul]

He's vla until Monday so no rush

But if I'm wagering based off how much he has posted and the quality of posts in other games when he's town, it's likely him.

I also think it would be him or votato that went for porkins.

[Mikul]

Actually I Wana lynch herald. Check his profile. He's actively playing in another game and has lurked his ass off.

He was also posting on weekends and I remember him saying he doesn't play on weekends much

Also means he may have an innactive partner so he doesn't care.

I'm thinking Anthony and herald

I thoight herald was on v/l?

Also something bugs me about town looter too.

Very possible everything about tl is different from last game. I've noticed it as well I just can't explain why it's weird. If I were betting it's

Herald

TL or Anthony

[Mikul]

Townlooter scum read anthony until a wagon on him formed and it seemed he would actually get lynched. Then magically anthony is in the town pile. I can see him being Anthony's scum partner.

I'm really bias but I can't see them killing porkins. He only posted like 3 times. Did he post something that implicated one of them?

If not it's an se going for how because they value his play

[Mikul]

I'm wrong herald has not posted since Thursday or Friday but the quality that he's contributing in the other game is way higher.

Everything about tl bugs me. Literally everything and I can't put a finger on it.

Tbh I'm not interested in the replacements at all. This is a perfect example where a slot out values a replacement. They can replace but it will have less value than what their slot had did this far. I think we have a pretty good way to Poe if we look at porkins as a nk target

[Mikul]

Townlooter scum read anthony until a wagon on him formed and it seemed he would actually get lynched. Then magically anthony is in the town pile. I can see him being Anthony's scum partner.

I'm really bias but I can't see them killing porkins. He only posted like 3 times. Did he post something that implicated one of them?

If not it's an se going for how because they value his play

They could have targeted them because he is an SE. Isnt herald one too? He also didn't seem likely for protection I suppose.

With so few posts. I also feel like he would have been an easy nk but I think newbs would have went after votato or herald since they were engaging. Porkins had 3 posts so either he had correct reads and someone wanted him gone or someone saw him as a threat

[Mikul]

@Porkens, You've made some nice points in your catchup, I'll address some of them:
You questioned my unvoting of Mikul, because it put him at L-2. Generally I'm not comfortable with putting someone there, especially in RVS. Now I think about it, it probably did look dodgy and possible scummy.

"This isn’t a good defense as scum or town. It’s a minor point you could let go by, but you are picking it as the hill to die on. Just blow it off with a lol and scumhunt elsewhere. Remember that town don’t need to get wrapped up in defending themselves, and scum can corner a defensive towny fairly easily."
That's probably just me, I tend to overdefend everything. Still seems a bit counterintuitive to me that defending myself less looks more townie, then again still getting used to mafiascum.

@town looter/votato/Mikul,
If you're going vote me for being defensive, sure go ahead. I will say that I act that way normally. If you have the time, do a metaread of my first game. The situation is pretty similar - I did something slightly dodgy at the start, I acted defensively and got lynched me on D2. Think about that first. I do have a suspicion one of the guys on my wagon is scum.

No one's going to cc now. I mean maybe they are that stupid but I doubt it

[Mikul]

That was the wrong quote response but you get what it was for

[Mikul]

LOL, if you guys a scum team and win again I am quitting this game for good!

Seriously though, and very quick thoughts because I have to head out: votato and mikul feel decently town, everyone else, including your good self, kinda in the scum bucket. Brass and Anthony strongest scum leans because scum likely on wagon.

This really bothers me and I can't explain why

[Mikul]

Anyone else want to vote me? I'm done with this game. Actually surprised at how smart people think they are, considering all they know is shit. One more vote please. It really do be a case of if town is this dumb, they don't deserve to win. One little tidbit I'll leave you with is that brass just then gave me the strongest scum read. Strategically puts me at L-2, doesn't draw too much attention to himself and gives a half-arsed reason why.

No one thinks they're smart, well maybe they do, but my point is we are trying to poke and probe you because you were/are the scummiest thing we have available. That poking and probing has worked a treat - you have provided a large reaction. Your appeal to emotion (or appeal to something...?) doesn't help matters.

Both votato, myself and others have thrown you life-lines, comments that you could have used to help build a defense and get back on track. You have, mostly, ignored them and proceeded to get more frustrated. I think this is because you are scum (yes, my previous wishy-washyness has gone based on recent posts), and your win condition is being severely jeopardized. I think a town reaction would be more relaxed - Town!Arthur's win condition will still be achievable even if they are mislynched on day 1.

L-1

- VOTE: Arthur -

L-1

This also bothers me.

[Mikul]

I'm okay with a town looter lynch

[Mikul]

Wait. If you got roleblocked say you got role blocked. It will town confirm you.

[Mikul]

Repeat if you are *roleblocked* please say the roleblocker visited you so we can town block you

[Mikul]

Votato can confirm

Yes

[Mikul]

Someone should have got a message saying they were rbed. Pls let us know , will end this game

[Mikul]

I hate both of you

[Mikul]

He's the one that I'm completely null on. Vex that is

1) had to claim. He saw me visit you. If I didn't claim i was getting lynched

2) to just seems weird compared to last game and it's hard to word why

3) herald has been active in another he but nothing much in this one but could also be the activity levels

4) I can't peg Anthony as scum or noob. It's one or the other


TL really does bother me though

[Mikul]

also we should read porkens iso

Yep

Doing that tonight. Gunna re read everything.

[Mikul]

If we had a more information to work with I would be comfortable with me as a lynch target as we can afford the mislynch, and it would probably tell us something. However, we're looking like clearing the only 2 truly active people, and you seemingly want to lynch the 3rd or 4th most active contributor (I was going to say 3rd because while votato has more posts than me, I feel I have contributed more content, but by post count alone I am 4th).

everything about this also bothers me. you are acting like activity is AI

[Mikul]

nah you lynch scummy people not lurky people. it just so happens that being lurky is scummy. also, i dont think ive been lurky. its just that its friggin page 12 and my best mafia is played at page 75+

138

town blocking you even harder for consistency

[Mikul]

VOTE: Herald


I'm going with my gut off this but go his page and click view posts. Look at his activity in the other game vs this one. It's not AI since I don't know what he is in the other game and since we can't discuss it but there is a huge difference in his posting patterns there vs here. I'd also wager it's because he drew scum and has an innactive partner.

[Mikul]

I also think an se would be more likely to target porkens

[Mikul]

I'm not here as an SE to play the game for you, I'm here to help you get better at the game.

So, get better.

If you are here for people to get better , your lack of contribution is directly prohibiting that because anyone in their right mind would read that as scummy. Throwing out one line zingers and having nothing of value to add to the conversation while directly being active and engaged in another game is not "helping people learn"

You don't have a read, have not explained a read , nor have you posted anything of value. Why should we not lynch you ?

[Mikul]

I can give you some reads if you really want, but it seems like I had been filed into the scum pile purely for not posting when I was VLA and also not posting during a low content Day 1.

I refuse to waste my own time, and from what I can see "active lurking" aka, not being on the site 24/7 or most weekends, has gotten me a scum read I'm not going to shake with any posts, so why bother?

Did I not say you were vla? That's not why I scum read you or anyone scum read you.

[Mikul]

I give a read, Nash is scum, his predecessor falls into the newbie scum tactic of just not posting. Hell, I replaced into a game where I won as scum because my partner did this and no one called him out. But, it's the "easy vote" so, what? Is it because I'm not sitting here typing pages of text? That's not my style, and I definitely don't want to read long posts, have less desire to make them.

So, what exactly is it I'm supposed to do to change your minds? Solve the game for you all? Not tell you that outing PRs is anti-town?

I mean, not exactly much for me to do at this point with the heavy confirmation bias going on.

I agree. I don't expect you to flood post and for the sake of not breaking site rules, I won't go into detail. But compare other games you are in and then look at this one. You seem actively engaged in other games and like you have a vested interest in it. This one there is little to no interest. I think you can even admit this.

That's the scum read , not because you were gone for the weekend.

[Mikul]

I give a read, Nash is scum, his predecessor falls into the newbie scum tactic of just not posting. Hell, I replaced into a game where I won as scum because my partner did this and no one called him out

See this is content and it's not an essay

[Mikul]

UNVOTE: Brass

[Mikul]

Connor thoughts on tl?

[Mikul]

Can't determine if it's posturing or actual town. I feel like a scum tl would have went with the bandwagon on herald and likely tried to Lynch him

[Mikul]

Connor also when you read this. You know how in liva mafia we always type something and what purpose it serves the next dp?

[Mikul]

Yes they can @tl

[Mikul]

Hard to peg. He's a lawyer , all lawyers are anal

[Mikul]

Connor also when you read this. You know how in liva mafia we always type something and what purpose it serves the next dp?

Yes

Think about what I'm going to do and the purpose of it as far as confirmation

I'm going to rense (wash off) tonight

[Mikul]

I kind of want to Gambit this game

I want to Lynch Anthony and if he flips scum it basically confirms herald. I don't think he would bus him what that read scum

If Anthony flips town we lynch herald no matter what.

And hope that Poe works

[Mikul]

if anthony flips scum, do you read herald town or is that just me?

[Mikul]

wasnt he pushing anthony before that?

[Mikul]

nevermind, totally wrong

[Mikul]

Yes they can @tl

Not so sure about this. More emphasis on why we can't mislynch today.
I want to hear what Anthony's replacement has to say, let's not quicklynch there.

@MOD any updates on the deadline?

They can carry both and will likely carry both to reduce the risk of being tracked

[Mikul]

Herald replaced before Anthony ?

Confirm ?

[Mikul]

Nm just saw they are waiting on confirmation before Anthony.

I'm largely not going to pay attention to anything any of the replacements say at this time. Going to re read this game in so today and make a choice later. This is a prime example of slots having mistakes and issues, and a replacement doesn't solve those issues

I'm heavily leaning herald , especially after that replacement. Going to read his other games later to confirm my thoughts.

[Mikul]

Connor it's really on us to solve this. Well talk more later today and figure it out but I'm disregarding any argument by any replacement and going to look at the slots and what they did

Especially I want to look at heralds motivation to replace since he still active in another game


For now

UNVOTE:

[Mikul]

I'm case I had not already.

[Mikul]

To start this off I think there was 1 scum on the Arthur lynch so i'm going to work from there


33 One of the very first posts in the game TL starts to put the idea out that arthur is scum
36 This post bothers me still. TL says we just played together and establishes a meta for me without knowing my meta because he's only seen me play once. He also says he scum leans me
44 Brass says he's inactive most weekends. I check his games, and other games and this is almost always the case so he is telling the truth with this and it's not lurking. Went back for nearly 2 months.
45 Reading this back I'm ready to lynch TL here. When i questioned him here he said it's a meta thing but pop psychology but that he's also okay with lynching arthur. If he scum leans me, why would he be okay with lynching arthur?
46 Concedes me to spamming after he said it wasn't good and scum read me for it
61 TL starts back on arthur about him misreading a joke
63 Herald actually defends arthur, would he not distance himself from this wagon as scum?
84 Votato is pushing hard on this arthur lynch
85 Anthony said he voted for me because he doesn't like spam. I actually buy this for his first game
VOTE: 93 Herald is reading votato as scum
96 Herald is already annoyed at this game because he doesn't value it and thinks its a waste of time.
104 I don't like anything about this post from TL
106 I actually like this post from vex
107 Porkens catch up - He scum reads me and TL at the start. He really scum reads vex, but I don't think that is motivation for a nk because vex was not replaced until mid day through today. He also calls out TL more.
109 He still is valuing my input after saying he scum leans me at the start of the game, then out of no where changes this and wants to go on arthur.

As a side note to this, I think this looks better for votato if scum were in the inactive pile. The mod even noted anthony had not submitted since the end of the DP. So if anthony is scum and votato is scum, votato would have likely carried out the nk and been blocked. Votato is scum only if an active person is scum.

124 Herald votes arthur. I don't read this as scum, i read it as town for whatever reason looking back
140 This is more town on heralds part i think pointing this out

Re reading this I think i have this entire game wrong. Continued next post

[Mikul]

143 TL is back on arthur if he was ever off I forgot, but this is an easy lynch to get on as scum and not look suspect

Arthur self hammers. In on the lynch (Me, Brass Herald, Anthony, TL, Arthur) there is one scum on this wagon. Maybe 2 but likely 1

Porkens dies, so why?

TL was one of the people he was scum leaning, and also myself. I'm town, and the other was vex who was not here during the np. It could also be a SE wanting him out because he is a good player

Is this a TL, Votato scum team?

Dismissing all posts by luna cause confirmed town, don't need to look for town motivation.

166 TL still being werid af
196 TL says he sees no value in lunas question when luna is obv trying to generate activity in a dead game after TL just complained about it not be active enough
199 Porkens dies and TL parrots his read in his long post



Everything else has recently happened,


VOTE: Townlooter

Everything about him has been off this game, and re reading it, it seems even more awkward than the last game he was town in. It's polar opposite play style. He voted and scum leaned me and then started to buddy me a few posts down from that. He was one of the people in on the arthur lynch (as i said at least one scum was on that), and porkens was reading him scummy


If TL flips scum this very likely could be a votato tl scum team
if hes town, it's likely votato is town

this is not perfect logic but assuming one of the two innactives are scum unless votato can make them carry out the night action, it basically confirms him because he would have to carry it himself

[Mikul]

@mod

hypothetically if scum is inactive during the np, could their partner make them carry out an action if they aren't there?

[Mikul]

I'm actually not okay with a herald lynch now. Thinking on it why would he replace out?

I really think as scum he would have more incentive to stay because he was already going to be lynched. Replacing out just looks bad. I think he actually just got pissed at the game and dipset

[Mikul]

I'm not going to second guess myself here unless luna can talk me out of it. My vote will be on TL. We have a 50/50 chance of getting it right and everything about TL has bugged me this game and re reading it, it makes it even more obvious. If i'm wrong I apologize.

and as I said i'm largely disregarding most of the stuff being said by the replacements until next DP because they have nothing of value and I don't trust the perspectives because one could be scum. Think it's better suited to look at the actions of noobs because it's more telling


I think Anthony is town, and I think someone pushing his lynch is scum as well.

I also think between that and TL we have a good shot of getting them.

[Mikul]

@votato link me examples of what you are talking about to make a case. I'm decided on todays lynch

but as far as routing out his partner, we can go to that next for the rest of the dp

why do you think hes scum


I have not fully blocked you but you have been consistent with what you said about enjoying late game more than early game and liking inactive games and there was a 50/50 chance you carried out the nk. It's not much but its better than nothing.

[Mikul]

liking active games!

[Mikul]

oh good point. VOTE: quick

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=82949
here is a quick towngame. can you spot the difference?

What do you think the difference is?

[Mikul]

Scum theatre or one of you is scum

....

Yeah I'm completely going off Anthony and herald for now

I'm not moving off looter. Connor will likely agree with me and then we go from there

So is this theatre or not

[Mikul]

I think it's more likely Anthony is newb town

Would a wild votato push a lynch on newb town

[Mikul]

If Anthony hasn't been replaced yet, he's posting in the scum PM.

Mod already replaced him.

Just waiting on confirmation from the replacement

[Mikul]

If Anthony hasn't been replaced yet, he's posting in the scum PM.

Mod already replaced him.

Just waiting on confirmation from the replacement

Alright I may join you on Town looter later, but I still really wanna hear from anthony or his replacement

That's fine. Usually when I second guess myself is when I play my worse. Sometimes its god awful when I don't second guess myself but re read tls iso and you will see what I mean. He is weird af

[Mikul]

no ones voting yet , and we have time. It's not just activity as to why i'm scum reading you. I put the exact posts above but I agree that you being more active is not ai

it def could be you trying to do better as town so you dont get lynched from the same reasons but that is not the basis of the scum reads.

[Mikul]

no ones voting yet , and we have time. It's not just activity as to why i'm scum reading you. I put the exact posts above but I agree that you being more active is not ai

it def could be you trying to do better as town so you dont get lynched from the same reasons but that is not the basis of the scum reads.

I get that, but I was also suggesting my approach/style was similar, not just my activity: I was wishy-washy/flippy-floppy with reads often, and I was also the wagon starter and pushed on Neutron Star - which bears very similar circumstances to the Arthur situation. I was pushing for reactions/pressure, not because I felt particularly strongly that either Arthur or NS were 100% scum.

My initial little snide remarks about lynching Arthur were reaction tests designed to test how Arthur would react. Again I find it odd that you would find this type of stuff scummy given your usual approach to D1...

If i knew that was your intent like 100 percent I woudnt

[Mikul]

I think it's pretty clear at least one of TL/votato is Scum. I think TL has made some posts that are hard(er) to fake as Scum, so that leaves me thinking votato is Scum. So Scum are in those three between TL/votato/nash. I really think the way votato dropped off means he's Scum since he doesn't actually have legit reasons for why I am Scum and can't defend that position.

Why have you implicitly cleared Anthony?

so you think anthony is scum as well?

[Mikul]

luna is trying to convince me on that wagon, how do you feel?

[Mikul]

I think it's pretty clear at least one of TL/votato is Scum. I think TL has made some posts that are hard(er) to fake as Scum, so that leaves me thinking votato is Scum. So Scum are in those three between TL/votato/nash. I really think the way votato dropped off means he's Scum since he doesn't actually have legit reasons for why I am Scum and can't defend that position.

Why have you implicitly cleared Anthony?

so you think anthony is scum as well?

I think the post that people took issue with is newbie-town, but their vote on Arthur could be scum motivated. Unlike you, I am very interested in hearing what their replacement says.

But the reason for my question wasn't because I think Anthony scum, but because LQ is omitting them, which is odd, if not slightly scummy.

im asking are you okay with his lynch like luna is?

[Mikul]

Is Luna still keen on the lynch though? I thought it was predicated on something to do with Anthony talking in PT, which I am not sure of given mod has been looking for a replacement for a while. But haven't carefully looked at the timing tbh.

My lynch preferences are:
Nash > Brass > Anthony > Votato.

Obviously haven't included myself even though I am not opposed to lynching me today if you get cleared and still 100% think I am scum. Anybody to the right of Brass would require some convincing, but there are absolutely scenarios where Anthony or votato or both are scum.

so question for you

[Mikul]

@TL

Why are you willing to lynch in that order when you just posted this less than a day and a half ago?

199

[Mikul]

to clarify, if you were reading anthony as noob town. Why would you be willing to lynch him at all and what changed? Sure luna is out of that poe but if you have a town read because hes a noob why would you lynch him over votato?

[Mikul]

My senses are tingling so hard with this TL / Votato scum team


Votato is actively engaging in another game all day and has not defended himself vs quick. In that scenario TL would carry out the nk so the jk on votato likely did nothing

[Mikul]

I'd love to field questions, Mikul, but it looks like you are not even reading me, so whatev.

Just because I say something doesn't mean i'm actually doing it. I how people react to what I say

I was waiting to be directly engaged to see if you even cared enough to point that out

[Mikul]

forgive phone posting but you get the jist of it

[Mikul]

about to go to a dnd game so wont be on much, have been session prepping for the past 2 hours ish but gun to my head

votato is scum and I read this game wrong

quick has been watching and not replying, showing an interest in the game but only has not chosen to type because he thought I didn't care. Anthony was noob town


@mod can you confirm that anthony has been replaced?

[Mikul]

I think the lynch sequence is between


tl - nash - votato and that solves it. Could def be talking out of my ass but my gut is just hitting so hard on this

[Mikul]

I've also been kind of baiting this as I feel like town votato would call out the faulty logic in the jk confirms you "ish" claim

[Mikul]

ill post when i’m home.

if there’s anything ppl want me to talk about immediately i’d appreciate the questions so i can get a footing here.

Anthony softed a pr so we are waiting for a full claim at this point

[Mikul]

i showed up a bit early to work so i have a few moments but scanning his iso i don’t see a soft anywhere in it, maybe i’m blind but i don’t see that. why would i claim tho and narrow down prs.

also i don’t understand the fos on this slot, is it activity + him being hesitant?

I have no idea why he did , the fos is that soft and him seeming weird

anyway go ahead and claim

[Mikul]

UNVOTE:

just so there is no weird business while i deliberate

[Mikul]

I've debated this game and I'm at a loss with this.

I'm pretty torn

[Mikul]

I'm going to regret this but fuck it.

VOTE: ydra

[Mikul]

Usually when I second guess myself it's when I lose. I hope it actually pays off this time.

[Mikul]

Yeah I think right now ydrasse or quick are rhe best options

I hate to say I agree with tl. That vote seems to be really manufactured and jump on the wagon feel

[Mikul]

If he flips scum that basically all but confirms tl

[Mikul]

none of you have even tried to engage me and have simply decided i’m scum.

second guessing or not you should do your due diligence to perhaps figure out how/why i have come to conclusions that i have.

There are def reasons. I can post why later just on my phone.

[Mikul]

is there really enough based on like, ~10 posts? like, you guys have managed to talk yourselves out of lynching someone who is actually scummy fmpov. the fact that it can be said the poe can go this way without a whole lot of resistance is a sign that mafia is most likely content to take this elimination.

I don't think mafia would stop any lynch at this point. With the Poe we have, mafia will have tried to distance if anything.

[Mikul]

Keep in mind he's at l-1

[Mikul]

We have a few hours to Lynch.

We have two people vla and one person Mia. Just hammer and if we are wrong we will deal with the fallout next dp. We won't have time to get another lynch off with this many people missing

[Mikul]

And tbh it's the fourth tomorrow. Would rather sink this into np and re adjust next dp


Connor iso me tomorrow it will be important. I left you something. Going to shower

[Mikul]

We are pretty boned as town. As I mentioned, thought there was more merit in trying to stop a kill than protect Luna because we know there is a rb in the game and I likely would have been rbed and him nked

@mod does a jk negate a rb if they both target each other ?

The point where this game got fucked is Luna claiming. I get why he did , but basically turned the game into vanilla vs goons at that point and we were confirmed to never get results.

50/50 now

[Mikul]

Depending on this mod answer , quick likely has to be scum

[Mikul]

Actually @ mod

1) if I was rbed , would I have been told my action failed
2) if I jk a rb does my jk go into affect before his rb

[Mikul]

Depends on how that interaction happens.

I wasn't rbed. Which makes no sense unless mafia are just noobs. Why would the rb and kill the tracker when they were going to kill him. They should have rbed me and killed him.

I targeted quick.

Jk over rides nk
If jk over rides a rb

Since I wasn't rbed , it's very likely quick is rb

[Mikul]

If rb over rides jk, then all that is useless and I hate myself even more because it's a vanilla game at this point.

[Mikul]

The thing that outing the prs did this early is it robbed nk analysis. Usually you can look at why a person was targeted but when a pr is targeted, it's obvious why. There is no reasoning behind it other than remove the or

So all I have to go off of is day phase conversations in a overall pretty inactive game with lots of replacements. It's really hard to get reads on this and we are in a rough spot.

[Mikul]

Mod confirmed.

Rb takes place over jk so they just decided not to rb me lol. God bless

[Mikul]

So everyone has gone inactive? Hellooooo?

Mikul. I am fairly sure Nash scum slipped, and nabbed his partner for us as well. Kinda unsatisfying was to end the game, but seems to be the only way he would know votato is getting replaced.

Thoughts?

yeah that is gg

[Mikul]

So everyone has gone inactive? Hellooooo?

Mikul. I am fairly sure Nash scum slipped, and nabbed his partner for us as well. Kinda unsatisfying was to end the game, but seems to be the only way he would know votato is getting replaced.

Thoughts?

I actually missed that in the initial read of it haha, Would have saw it later but good catch

[Mikul]

yeah double checked and the mod didn't post anywhere about a prod so would only been through scum

[Mikul]

VOTE: votato

[Mikul]

UNVOTE:

[Mikul]

can you link this?

[Mikul]

f

[Mikul]

If I lose us this game I apologize in advance. Without results and outing prs so early and the early innactivity and replacements has made this very hard to deal with and read properly. That being said I don't think tl is scum. The way that he reacted to what he thought was a scum slip seemed town and if he is scum then good game

I rbed quick and votato once.

[Mikul]

VOTE: nash

By sheer Poe and probability with who've I've been blocking. If I'm wrong , I'm wrong. I just don't feel like re analyzing the game and trying to figure out multi alot motivations

[Mikul]

Nash hasn't really been on my radar and IDRK why. I think that slot has pretty much just lurked all game and just done nothing else. Mikul has an okay point on Tl, but I still think that just makes votato slot Scum. I haven't checked super closely, but given Nash has lurked so much, I can totally see Nash/votato as Scum team.

If tl is scum he wins. I read that post about the scum slip as geninue excitement.

To clarify I'm normally alot more into games than I am with this one but the force out of the prs on dp2 changes the dynamics to the game because it's functioning as vanilla vs vanilla which can be fine. But with the 4 or 5 replacements in this game , it's really hard to look at motivation by each slot and the replacement of that slot in any meaningful way especially when we know who the nk targets are

This is strictly Poe. In my mind tl is town and if I'm wrong , I'll own it. Just that post seemed to geninue to be scum. So in at a 66 percent chance.

I rbed you and it didn't stop the nk.

So if you are scum, then I would imagine votato is town the way you are pushing him

And if you are town and votato is scum, then based on my read if tl.


I won't shake that read from tl, so if I'm wrong at this point we lose and I accept it. Just been to much if a cluster with the replacements and the prs being outted so early

[Mikul]

Based in my read if tl , Nash is scum

Either way Nash would be scum in the scenario within my mind.

Either he is scum with you and your pushing votato

Or your town and pushing votato and he's scum with votato.

If you town read tl then Nash has to be scum

[Mikul]

If I were betting , I think it's Nash and votato. Not because of his post but ironically by poe and I quite well could be wrong. If Nash is scum , If I make into the next dp alive I'll spend a lot more time reading into the isos of the last 2 or 3. I really doubt that will happen unless I stop the nk

[Mikul]

I found like one thing that is even remotely close to being a Non-Associative between votato/Nash. I will not actually link the post because I don't want to give this metric away yet, but it doesn't completely fulfil my criteria for a Non-Associative so whatever. Still, I would say it's maybe better than nothing, but Nash has something really similar with my slot as well, so IDK.

I guess I will just trust you on Tl at this point since you aren't budging there anyways.

You don't have to trust me. I could be entirely wrong. I've often been wrong. I just picked his post as geninue excitement about what he thought was a scum slip and if I'm wrong then we've already lost. I won't be able to break away from that

So the second I townread him (in my mind )

Nash has to be scum

[Mikul]

will play catch up with this tomorrow, tonight is my dnd game but will fully catch up sometime then

[Mikul]

im so sorry i didnt catch up on this, have been really busy. Will tomorrow 100 percent

[Mikul]

im not able to read through this all but will tomorrow but common sense would tell you nash is scum

hes at l1 and there is no hammer

im confirmed town, so if he was town both mafia would have hammered him already

[Mikul]

Okay

So yeah Nash is confirmed scum.

TL is town. Again I won't be able to shake this. Nothing that has happened has changed my read of this

I think mic is scum

Forcing me to say who I jk let's him determine what he does. If he is scum and I claim someone that is not him he knows he can waive the nk to look like I blocked the nk since I would likely be the nk target.

I'm not saying who I'm going to block.

I may target mic or I may target someone else to poe down people if there is a nk.

[Mikul]

Also as early as 305 tl had been putting pressure on Nash for no reason. He wouldn't do this as scum unless he was actively trying to bus

[Mikul]

I will die but gun to my head it's Nash / Mic

I've jk both votato and lick so that means Nash was carrying out the kills

It also means he is rb. It's why I was not rbed last night phase. He rbed and liked Luna at the same time

So last person would be a goon. Mics push for me to claim my target is also very hinty at the fact he knows my jk will work and help him determine if he's going to waive.

[Mikul]

And killed *

[Mikul]

Add that to the fact I don't see herald quitting the way he did as scum. I just don't see it , especially since Nash is confirmed

To boot votato already knew you could submit night actions for your partner is one of his early posts so np1 he prob submited the rb since Nash's old slot was awol

[Mikul]

I think youre misunderstanding why you should claim a jailkeep target. It’s not for the situation where no nightkill goes through. That situation is WIFOM and I’d completely ignore who the JK target was. But claiming a JK target is *very* important for the exact situation where nash is RB and you turn up dead overnight. In that situation we get a confirmed Townie and 1/3 odds turn into 1/2. It’s strictly upside. And as long as you recognize mafia can introduce WIFOM regardless of what you as the JK do, and thus ignore night actions in those scenarios, there is no downside.

This is an opinion I have about mafia theory. I’d express it as any alignment, so you reading me as mafia for expressing it is silly.

While I’m here, your N2 jailkeep on LQ means absolutely nothing considering you were already outed and 100% to be roleblocked.

I agree it has no merit but Im near 100 percent that Nash is rb and a goon will be left. I also was not rbed, so that means Nash was the rb and carrying kills at the same time. And likely on the same target.

What I don't like about claiming is that it gives mafia a heads-up on what is happening. Whether they want to leave me alive and whether to waive. I agree if I end up dead it helps but that is very likely not going to happen for the reasons you mentioned.

I'm going to target lick



* Please note , do not use this jk last dp for any analysis unless I'm dead

[Mikul]

I also was not rbed

you have no way of knowing this. stop using it for analysis

Unless another person told me wrong, it would tell you that your action failed.


@mod would I be informed of it failed.

[Mikul]

That*

[Mikul]

The reason I want to know this is because whether I'd succeeded offers some form of Poe even if it's marginal. And I swear someone told me that it would say I was informed

[Mikul]

Interesting, votato was not new correct ?

He misinformed me that a pr would day it failed earlier in the game.

[Mikul]

Can't tag cus on my phone

#266

No one is told whether they are roleblocked. Even a pr would say that their action failed but it wouldnt say whether they were roleblocked or the target were jkd


He also let me town read him because of this the entire game after that. What I want to do before we end is look at his other games to see if this interaction has played out. Directly after that he even said I'm cool with you town reading me that way.

Where I play it always say you are rbed so that is why I asked and now I'm even more curious as to why he let me think that the entire game

[Mikul]

No one is told whether they are roleblocked. Even a pr would say that their action failed but it wouldnt say whether they were roleblocked or the target were jkd

Yeah, so this is absolutely correct. You're just taking "even a pr would say their action failed" to be true even if the action was one that doesn't inherently receive a result.

That's not the case. If your power (such as jailkeeper) doesn't inherently receive a result, then you'd never know you were blocked. Were as if your action receives a result (such as tracker) you'd be told "no result" instead of something else, which is indication you'd been blocked.

seems like a big misunderstanding and votato never realize you misinterpreted his statement. he was fine with you taking him to be more likely to be town just on the information that if he was mafia there was a 50% chance you would have blocked him from carrying out the nightkill.

predit: yes that works. alternatively this lets you make a certain word link to a certain post: really useful to me as a moderator

Code: Select all

[post=266]word[/post]

word

I can do it on my phone , it's just a pita

However he typed it , he knew I was townreading him because I believed I would have been told and he let me run with it all game

[Mikul]

Anyway we won't get anything out of that and it's just clutter at this point.

Strictly off behavior I think tl is town I can't shake it and won't shake it. I have him as a near town confirmation off behavior and if I'm wrong , gg he wins.


I'm going to rb quick again

We'll deal with the outcome of this next dp which is likely me being alive still.