Newbie 2038: Elements [Game Over]

[muh316]

VOTE: c4e5g3d5 How do you even pronounce that?

[muh316]

For everyone, what's your experience with mafia?

Even though my account is from 2009, I'm not super experienced with Mafia. I've been pretty on and off over the last couple of years. The only reason why I got back in now is because I started playing Among Us which reminded me of this site and I started back. I played a couple games around 2 years ago but I've forgotten a lot of things.

[muh316]

muh316 -- hmmm

hmmm

[muh316]

VOTE: muh

Lights are on but no one's home?

I'm working from home, but works been pretty busy. It's friday so I finally have some time to read through this
Also, looks like you're home but haven't seen any thoughts from you. You only have a single RVS vote and then voted me for inactivity. Your ISO is just questions, and not much else. Which is hypocritical of me but something I want to point out.

muh316 -- hmmm

hmmm

Got anything to add to the game?

What's your read on hunter?

Why are you specifically asking me about hunter? Him and I haven't had any direct interaction. And you and hunter haven't had any significant interaction either. Are you scumreading Hunter?

[muh316]

Yes I didn't want to ruin relationships with Mizzy.

Why not, what significance does maintaining a positive relationship with Mizzy have?

[muh316]

Id like u to tell me ur read on hunter before i taint it with any thing I say.

I don't need to give my read on hunter just because you asked for it for no apparent reason.

[muh316]

Hunter, could you explain what you mean by townlock? I couldn't find the definition in the wiki.

[muh316]

Hmm, I can put it this way. c4 would have to do something terrible for me to change his alignment. He is comfortably deep within my town circle where I can forgive a misread or a slight tone change.

Interesting, that's a pretty big read on someone just 5 pages in.

[muh316]

Haven't interacted with anyone so a readlist is a bit difficult.

Town:
Cyl
Mizzy,
Hunter
C4

Neutral:
AGamblingPig
Egix
72
Muh


Not confident enough to actually call someone scum yet so won't be voting just now. I'll wait a page or two to get a better feel for the game.

Did you post these in order of most to least?

[muh316]

Why are you so preoccupied about interaction?

All i did was ask you for a read on hunter.

If you are town, from your point of view, I have a 75% chance of being town.

So my suggestion is that you cooperate and work with me, and work on the assumption that I am working in good faith as a starting point.

I'm not avoiding your question because I think you're scum. I'm avoiding it because it's just a bad question. If you had asked me what my thoughts are on all the other players or asked me to provide a list of reads, that's a different story. No idea why you're targeting hunter or me for that question.

[muh316]

SO now I'm going toVOTE: Muh316. He said last night that he was going to start participating more but since then has 4 posts none of which have any real game content besides refusing, repeatedly to give a read on hunterr when asked by 72. His posts read more like prod dodging, which could be scummy to avoid attention

If I was prod dodging I would have stopped at a single post and kept myself under the radar. I would have probably also answered 72's question to get him off my back so I can keep lurking like Egix.

[muh316]

More generally. muh is saying not much. It's bad. We all agree he should say more. Can someone give me a scum intent for still not trying after people really start calling it out and voting there? Cos right now it feels policy elimy to me.

Can you clarify what you mean by this. Are you referring to AGamblingPig voting me for inactivity?

[muh316]

Regarding Mizzy's questions in #24, I've got next to no experience. Just finished my first newbie game and it didn't go well. I threw. Town lost. Wouldn't recommend reading.

Most people probably agree that you're doing better than I am, even though I'm the SE.

#114 from muh is yikes. This far into the day and all they can say is "hmmm". There's defintiely things to weigh in on. Hope there's more from them in the next few pages.

There's not more from me in the next pages. The hmmm was thrown in there since I check the thread frequently on my phone, I just hate typing on my phone and prefer to write when I'm on my laptop.

#121 further makes me think cyl is pretty town. Empathy for a person as reason not to vote them. Don't think I see this reason get thrown out by scum.

I disagree, it comes across to me as buddying a strong player who's probably going to make a good case for being town.

[muh316]

Sorry for post spam, but when I reply I find it easier to manage one reply at a time.

My reads in no particular order

Neutral:
Everyone not listed below

Leaning Scum:
72OffSuit - For constantly nagging me
Egix - For lurking just as much as I am but still remaining mostly under the radar
Cylstar - Scum vibes from the Mizzy buddying. Also just as inactive as I am but not getting the same treatment as me.

I would vote 72 because OMGUS. But that won't gain much traction anyway, so I'll UNVOTE: C4and VOTE: Cylstar

[muh316]

WRT Egix & muh: Hypocrisy only means that both sides are wrong or at fault at some level so the response from muh is basically just deflection though a valid point. muh definitely looks worse, not because of this,

but because he's been a far bigger lurker than Egix

.

How so?

[muh316]

Sorry for post spam, but when I reply I find it easier to manage one reply at a time.

My reads in no particular order

Neutral:
Everyone not listed below

Leaning Scum:
72OffSuit - For constantly nagging me
Egix - For lurking just as much as I am but still remaining mostly under the radar
Cylstar - Scum vibes from the Mizzy buddying. Also just as inactive as I am but not getting the same treatment as me.

I would vote 72 because OMGUS. But that won't gain much traction anyway, so I'll UNVOTE: C4and VOTE: Cylstar

This just sounds to me like you are keen to vote whoever you think will get wagoned

If I want to exert pressure on a player I need to present a case that the other players can also get behind. Voting 72 isn’t going to exert any pressure since it’s going to be me voting OMGUS.

[muh316]

Preoccupied with how others are or may be reading his slot - scum mindset - survivalism over scumhunting.

I need to defend myself if I’m getting voted, right?

[muh316]

@muh - I wasn't talking about anyone specifically with my question about scum intent for the way you've lurked, just the general feel from the game as a whole turning in your direction. You were a good policy elim if that activity level continued but a policy elim in general is a last resort or a "oh god I don't want this in ELo".

My thoughts were people seemed to be scum reading you for it, and if you are strategically lurking as scum (as opposed to, y'know, busy) and you have a choice to pull yourself up when you get pressured, you do. You have to be genuinely busy or very confident in being able to pull off TSTBS otherwise.

Whats TSTBS mean? Also, would you have pushed to policy eliminate me if we were approaching deadline?

[muh316]

I'm not exactly sure what that rule means. For instance, am I allowed to compare the actions of the replacement and replaced?

Yes, you can use the actions of the slot to give your judgment on them, this includes replaced players.

[muh316]

@JDye, the newbie FAQ answers your question on why a no-elimination is a bad idea in a newbie game. https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... iminate.3F

[muh316]

This just sounds to me like you are keen to vote whoever you think will get wagoned

We are 4 days away from the deadline. I want to have my vote in a slot that will gain traction and generate discussion to bring us closer to an elimination. Voting for you wasn't going to achieve that.

[muh316]

Just realized I re-quoted 72 and had already answered him previously which he also replied to. Sorry about that, I got confused with the page numbers.

[muh316]

Muh has been evasive and refused to answer questions

What did I evade besides the single question from 72? Which I've explained my reasoning behind not answering multiple times.

[muh316]

You said I've refused to answer questions (plural). That's only one question, which I then reframed and gave my reads on who I think is leaning scum.

[muh316]

I'll update tonight. Sorry weekdays have been really busy for me and keeping up with the election has made me even more unproductive today.

[muh316]

@Muh, if you're town, who's most likely to be scum on your wagon, in your opinion?

At this point in time, the wagon was Egix, AGamblingPig, C4. Cylstar wanted to vote me but didn't want to put me at E-1. Given these four my order of least to most scum is

C4
Egix
AGamblingPig
Cylstar

Egix, while a bit lurky, hasn't given me anything else to point him to scum. Cylstar I already have my vote on which is why she's most scum for me.

AGP is an interesting development for me. Particularly this callout from him

Muh has been evasive and refused to answer questions.

This seems like AGP trying to get me lynched by misrepresenting my actions and making them seem worse than they actually are.

There's also that scumslip from him that 72 mentioned.

Running out of battery and I left my charger in the car. So will post in the morning.

[muh316]

On mobile right now, do you really want me to claim given we already have one claim? Having 2 claims is not the best idea on D1.

[muh316]

No night kill?

[muh316]

Agree with Mizzy above, and kudos for pointing out the fact that if we have a jailkeeper, they don't know whether the person they targeted was town or mafia.

[muh316]

It's likely that we have one scum on my wagon, and one on AGP's wagon.

On my wagon we had C4, Egix and Safebet (before the hammer). Of those I would give scumlean to Egix.

On the other wagon we had cylstar, 72offsuit, Mizzytastic, JDye,

safebet222

. Of these four I would still put 72offsuit and cylstar as scum picks here. Though we'll probably want to analyze the AGP wagon a bit more to see how it developed and how it was being pushed D1. I'll try to do that later today.

[muh316]

Sorry, I did the irresponsible thing of signing up for three games, and one's a hydra on MU so I can't really back out of it, so I'll likely have to replace out.

In the meantime, I'm still trying to figure out if DADV applies to muh. In case it does, VOTE: Egix96 is next on my list.

What does DADV mean? Also, do you want to explain why you were pushing me for a claim when there was no intent to hammer on me?

[muh316]

Out of the folks not on the AGP wagon, I think we should flip Muh. He's not lurking... he's posted more than a bunch of you all. He simply is not contributing... except for post #311, he's not really given us anything useful for town. And even that post wasn't very helpful. The whole game all he's done is give us a couple of scumlists and a few comments. These last 2 posts were just parroting me. I don't like it.

VOTE: muh316

Wasn't 72 your top wagon, and I was the neutral one? What happened with 72 that he's no longer a candidate for elimination?

[muh316]

These last 2 posts were just parroting me. I don't like it.

Parroting you? It's common knowledge that there's scum on a town wagon. You didn't provide any insightful analysis for me to parrot there.

[muh316]

I said off of APig's wagon. You were off the APig wagon too... you could still be scum.

Though we'll probably want to analyze the AGP wagon a bit more to see how it developed and how it was being pushed D1.

You want to look off the wagon and I want to look on the wagon. My thoughts are independent of what you posted

[muh316]

An analysis of the AGP wagon. It started off in 104 with Cylstar voting AGP as RVS even though we were clearly out of RVS. Then states in post 105 that they are voting for inactivity.

The real wagon starts on 266 with 72offsuit analyzing AGP’s actions as scummy when he voted me because I’m the easy punching bag for town. Coupled with the scum slip and the comment on “just gas” seems like a solid case to build pressure.

Mizzy joins in on the wagon on 282 stating that they agree with 72offsuit’s take on AGP.

JDye votes AGP on 323 Explanation here seems like process of elimination with a fast approaching deadline.

Safebet hammer on 352.

Out of these 5, I still think there’s a really strong case against Cylstar. She voted AGP in the early parts of D1 claiming it was RVS. Then stuck with the vote for the whole day without applying pressure. When pressure was applied on Cylstar she sort of disappeared into the background.

The other scumlean I'm starting to develop a bit is on Safebet. The hammer kind of seemed opportunistic to me. After promising to hammer at 10pm, he hammered earlier than that. There was opportunity in those last few hours for me to get lynched as well. However, he hammered AGP and now starts off D2 with a wagon on me since I'm an easy target for a D2 lynch.

[muh316]

Happy cakeday muh

@muh BTW... Have a great day! Beautiful weather in our fair city... Enjoy your birthday!

Thanks! And yeah the weather was surprisingly nice on my birthday. It's usually much colder this time of the year.

[muh316]

Also, something that is bugging me but I dunno how to turn into scumhunting. From other town perspectives I should be one of the grosser votes on Pig. Middle is often where scum join from a VCA perspective, I showed some interest in moving off cyl cos it was an early vote intended to sort, but I didn't show my working on Pig before joining. I know I'm struggling to keep up with the game, was having some icky thoughts about Pig that I hadn't voiced super well and liked 72s case but you lot don't.

If I understand correctly, you want us to scumread you for that? This post feels very LAMIST to me.

[muh316]

VOTE: cylstar

Forgot to do that in the initial post I made.

[muh316]

There was no reason to ask you, obviously. After Egix joins your wagon, who was gonna hammer you? You? With 2 hours left who was gonna hammer you?

The other 4 players in the game who could have been convinced of AGP innocence. I've also self hammered before viewtopic.php?p=2649614#p2649614

[muh316]

and with 2 hours to spare and nobody even hanging around half the time, who was I going to convince?

I concede, that's a valid point.

[muh316]

And just because you self hammered 10 years ago, that makes you town now?

That was just me poking fun of 13 year old muh316.

[muh316]

In the meantime, I'm still trying to figure out if DADV applies to muh. In case it does, VOTE: Egix96 is next on my list.

You never really explained why you voted Egix. I can't find anything in your ISO to explain why you would vote Egix.

[muh316]

13! I was 13 nine years before the first game of forum mafia was played... Plus I was more into riding bikes and playing ball... Videogames and maybe had my first crush by then... Certainly not this devious little game.

Yes, I was introduced to the internet at a quite young age.

[muh316]

Since most of you don't think Cylstar is the right elimination for today, I'm going to move my vote off her andUNVOTE: Cylstar VOTE: C4

Voting because C4 didn't answer my question on the vote on Egix. If he's getting replaced, I think we should pressure the slot.

[muh316]

On second thought, that doesn't seem like a great idea since we're 2 days away from the deadline.

[muh316]

VOTE: muh

Are you advocating for a policy elimination on me? Seems like you were advocating one on D1 too.

[muh316]

137 Muh316 your phrasing here sounds like you expected multiple RVS votes. Did you think pushing you for lack of content was scummy?

It wasn't scummy, it was hypocritical coming from Egix who at the time was just as inactive as I was. Egix's inactivity could be seen as scummy but the push didn't feel like it.

[muh316]

Kinda don't want to lynch ffery today given the value she's bringing to the game, though the slot (C4) is sus.

[muh316]

On mobile right now but seems like you’re advocating a policy lynch on me. What information do you hope to gain on D3 if im eliminated.

[muh316]

Out of the three viable wagons (of course this is my opinion that there are three right now) if FF or 72 (or both) is scum, don't you think we have a better chance of catching them without a muh that does the bare minimum? There is still time to sort him, if he's listening...

This is a major red flag. So you’d rather policy eliminate than go for scum

[muh316]

I've made my scumread on you muh... deflection and intentional misdirection. Scum.

Right, but the others in town don't have me as strong scumreads. And the way you phrased your post it sounded like you were convincing others to just go for the policy elimination on Muh than push for an actual elim on scum.

[muh316]

Don't bother... I've heard enough... no point in waiting UNVOTE: muh316 VOTE: AGamblingPig
Dead weight.

I've made my scumread on you muh... deflection and intentional misdirection. Scum.

The tone here seems very reminiscent of Safebets tone when he eliminated AGP.

[muh316]

If Im close to an elimination please let me know so I can claim.

[muh316]

I'm around and catching up. For those who are saying I'm not contributing and if I wanted to seem town, I would just contribute. There's just one issue with that, this is how I play. I'm generally considered a bad mafia player. It's also why I decided to join a newbie game.

[muh316]

Look 4 minutes I think 72's wagon still has three on it. I really think we ought to save up the extra person for MyLo. Can we please get someone to flip who hasn't done much so that it's any easier to read tomorrow?

VOTE: 72

[muh316]

Wait, muh was around all this time?

I just came back. I was out all day.