Newbie 2063 | Sweets | Game Over

[Symbiosis]

VOTE: Meuh

Because her name is literally just "Meh" with an extra letter.

[Symbiosis]

I have 3 town reads page 1.

Wheme
Meuh
T3

Pear has disappointed me already though with such a bland entrance!
I feel another push is going to happen

Could you explain how exactly you get three TR's already. Meuh I can understand for being the first person to give some legitimate advice but I have no idea why you think Wheme and T3 are likely town. Any further information on your TR's please?

[Symbiosis]

Wheme for trying to push out of RVS
Meuh for continuing the joke in 13 instead of back tracking, ignoring, or panicking.
T3 because I have played with enough to get a read from his opening post.

Did you not care about my Pear dislike?

I did care about the Pear dislike but asking that question in the post just didn't feel right. I couldn't think of how to work it into the post without it feeling stilted.

Reads:
VFP is likely town for getting a discussion going and explaining their thought processes.
Slight town lean on Meuh for the reasons we have both already stated.
Everyone else null.

Could you send some links to the T3 games that make you think he's town?

[Symbiosis]

I do hope you guys get pfps, I'm gonna end up getting Symbi (is that an okay nickname with you?), Kris (does that nickname work?) and T3 mixed up in my mind because I don't have an image to attach to them
If you guys have pfps you'll stick out of the crowd!! everyone will love you!!! my life improved 50x when i got a pfp, 10/10 would recommend, my offer for the anime pfps still stands

Symbi is fine.

Honorary NoAvi Masonry

VFP me and my meta I think is towny.

- I have no idea what you are saying with this. Care to explain?
This isn't Symbiosis's first game....
Just seems oo informed abouut the mechanics of mafia.
Well a nyways, Meuh, can you elaborate on the Weuler scumread?

I have been doing research. I have some experience with face-to-face social deduction games but I have never played mafia before.

Let me make a readslist! Format I'm using may be a bit uncommon but I think it's fairly simple to understand, I'm excluding everyone who hasn't done anything to ping me

Spoiler:

TTT = Confirmed town
TT = Strong town read
T = Town read
/T = Town lean
/ = Neutral
/M = Mafia lean
M = Mafia read
MM = Strong mafia read
MMM = Confirmed mafia

VFP (/)

All they've done is be gamesolvey and help, but I don't think that means anything in regards to alignment. I don't really feel very strongly about them.
Regardless, I'm fine with establishing VFP as town core for today and then reevaluate this read tomorrow, I can't really see myself wanting to elim this slot unless something major changes.

That's how I felt about Norwee though and we all saw how that went

Weuler (/M)

31 is ehhh to me, I don't like it

- I agree

Symbio (/T)

Explained in my previous post

I agree that VFP hasn't really posted enough to be AI but trying to solve the game is something that only town can legitimately do. The reason is that scum already know everyone's alignments, meaning that they have to fake not knowing to appear solvey. This means they can be caught as they won't think like a townie. However VFP could easily be scum here so I am moving them to null read.

Meuh's general thought process just seems very towny.
Weuler leans scum

VOTE: Weuler

[Symbiosis]

I do hope you guys get pfps, I'm gonna end up getting Symbi (is that an okay nickname with you?), Kris (does that nickname work?) and T3 mixed up in my mind because I don't have an image to attach to them
If you guys have pfps you'll stick out of the crowd!! everyone will love you!!! my life improved 50x when i got a pfp, 10/10 would recommend, my offer for the anime pfps still stands

Also i accept your offer

[Symbiosis]

I do hope you guys get pfps, I'm gonna end up getting Symbi (is that an okay nickname with you?), Kris (does that nickname work?) and T3 mixed up in my mind because I don't have an image to attach to them
If you guys have pfps you'll stick out of the crowd!! everyone will love you!!! my life improved 50x when i got a pfp, 10/10 would recommend, my offer for the anime pfps still stands

Also i accept your offer

Anything in particular you're looking for?

I'm thinking something similar to your's actually. (Which seems to have disappeared for some reason)

[Symbiosis]

I guess 31 does look a bit odd. It did provoke some responses though although I don't find any of the subsequent reasoning off. Perhaps Symbiosis was a bit too quick to vote for me, but to be honest I can't see many other candidates

(there are some though...)

. I will at least remove my joke vote for now and see what plays out today

UNVOTE: Symbiosis

Any idea who those might be?

feeling

VOTE: Symbiosis

Also this is weird. It seems like a random vote but it's well past RVS. Not sure if this is AI though, just want to know why you did it.

[Symbiosis]

Also this is weird. It seems like a random vote but it's well past RVS.

Not sure if this is AI though

, just want to know why you did it.

If its not RVS, do you think it's a scummy or towny vote?

It's probably NAI, it seems weird but I have no idea how this benefits scum.

[Symbiosis]

What's AI and NAI out of curiosity? New terms for me.

AI - Alignment indicative, basically stuff that can be use to townread or scumread someone
NAI - Non-Alignment indicative, anything that doesn't fall into the first category

[Symbiosis]

I think there's scum in the players calling me leantown.
Nervous to go out of the box.

I looked through the thread and found three players who townread you: Myself (I later changed it to a nullread), Kristopher, and T3. If this post is correct and your townread on T3 is accurate then Kristopher must be scum.

[Symbiosis]

I do hope you guys get pfps, I'm gonna end up getting Symbi (is that an okay nickname with you?), Kris (does that nickname work?) and T3 mixed up in my mind because I don't have an image to attach to them
If you guys have pfps you'll stick out of the crowd!! everyone will love you!!! my life improved 50x when i got a pfp, 10/10 would recommend, my offer for the anime pfps still stands

Also i accept your offer

Anything in particular you're looking for?

I'm thinking something similar to your's actually. (Which seems to have disappeared for some reason)

It disappeared??? My whole sense of identity is gone now
I can try finding you one that's similar, what did you think about the one I sent?

It's okay but not what I had in mind

[Symbiosis]

Until Bulge starts talking I'm going to go with

VOTE: The Bulge

PS: There are a lot of votes that weren't counted on last page. Probably because the voter forgot to unvote their last choice. E.g I should have at least 1 vote on me.

I agree. We need to put some pressure on this

VOTE: The Bulge until they post something game-relevant.

[Symbiosis]

I do hope you guys get pfps, I'm gonna end up getting Symbi (is that an okay nickname with you?), Kris (does that nickname work?) and T3 mixed up in my mind because I don't have an image to attach to them
If you guys have pfps you'll stick out of the crowd!! everyone will love you!!! my life improved 50x when i got a pfp, 10/10 would recommend, my offer for the anime pfps still stands

Also i accept your offer

Anything in particular you're looking for?

I'm thinking something similar to your's actually. (Which seems to have disappeared for some reason)

It disappeared??? My whole sense of identity is gone now
I can try finding you one that's similar, what did you think about the one I sent?

It's okay but not what I had in mind

I'll dig up something else then

I'll just send a bunch of links, if you like one I'll size it properly for the site so you can use it!

1. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... dv2_hq.png
2. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... 00x400.jpg
3. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... age0-2.jpg
4. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... av5dtf.png
5. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... /85469.png

I like the first one.

[Symbiosis]

Where am I going against meta?

By saying that me and T3 can be scum partners even though

in your only knowledge, I push my buddies as scum.

I don't like this at all. In Newbie 2061 (The only game I could find with you and Meuh where you were scum) you may have had Marci in your scumreads but you did not actively push on her beyond a couple of questions and saying that a marci lim would work for you.

I had Marci as scum from the moment I joined in until the claim was made.
Interesting that you're trying to double down here.

True, but I adressed this earlier in my post.

No

Marci had 0 votes or 1 vote max.

I had votes on me.

Barring a mod error, this is just false. In Page 20 the following events happen in this order:
1) Mod posts a votecount where marci has one vote from T3
2) Catboi votes marci
3) Mod announces VFP replacing Samawoodo

T3 did not change his vote between 1) and 3) so marci must have had two votes when VFP replaced in. I now think VFP is likley to be scum due to their use of flimsy reasoning and a verifiably false statment. I still want to pressure Bulge, so my vote stays where it is.

Alright new readslist time I added more things so I can make my reads more specific

TTT = Confirmed town
TT = Strong town read
T = Town read
/T = Town lean
//T = Neutral, slight town lean
/ = Neutral
//M = Neutral, slight mafia lean
/M = Mafia lean
M = Mafia read
MM = Strong mafia read
MMM = Confirmed mafia

Symbiosis (T)

I townread her even harder now, 23, 25, 48, 66 and 73 are all townie posting, she's being productive and advancing discussion without it feeling artificial or with the goal of gaining towncred.

Weuler (M)

The vibes are off . Like I've already established, 31 is weird, but the more recent posting does nothing to ease me. 67 is just no pro-town behaviour, he gets asked for scumreads, answers with a vague description of who they would be, and nothing else. 83, he votes The Bulge without voting him. 0 confidence in Weuler's posting, a lack of establishing scumreads, passive gameplay, very simple formula to a mafia member right here.

T3 (/)

T3's thought process makes sense, it seems alright, 39 is a townie post ig, but the interactions with VFP make me too uneasy to townlean him here, which I think I would otherwise.

KristopherKolumbus (/T)

41, 58 and 68 are all a good look, her thought process seems genuine and she seems to want to find scum. "Also btw I just read through the forum while not half asleep, and my meh view on Mueler has gone slightly on scumread now that I look at it," seems like the natural thought process of a townie.

Pearofclubs (/)

I would've liked a bit more productivity in the posts that have been made, but nothing's really put me off in what has been said. I'm just waiting for more content at this point.

WhemeStar (/)

Meh, there's not much to say here. Nothing seems off, nothing seems good. 60 is the most townie content I could find in his ISO. (For those who don't know, ISO means isolation, it's when you use the little thing at the bottom to look at a singular player's posts in isolation, I recommend using it when forming reads)

VFP (//M)

The amount of productivity in their posting almost makes me nudge them to just neutral, but with the interactions with T3 and the potential of VFPxWeuler, I'm a bit weary of them at this point.
72's a townie post though

The Bulge (//M)

I was expecting more than this from an SE slot, could just be a playstyle thing but The Bulge fails to deliver any reads and proceeds to vote one of my townreads If they don't start doing more I think they could always work as today's elim since we won't be losing much regardless, I really don't wanna see The Bulge in like, an endgame scenario, that sounds awful

Also how do you do the thing where you link to a specific post?

[Symbiosis]

Looks like I missed out on a lot. I had a few quotes from earlier already and I had planned out some responses before the cop claim.

I don't like this at all. In Newbie 2061 (The only game I could find with you and Meuh where you were scum) you may have had Marci in your scumreads but you did not actively push on her beyond a couple of questions and saying that a marci lim would work for you.

Regardless if you like it, my point is correct.

The argument here is that I could be scum with T3 for saying I have a town lean.

- That was not the basis of Meuh's argument. In fact, in 90, she said the most likely possibility was one of them being scum, not both

The only argument you are using is that I use the word push instead of read. The wording changes nothing to this and it still proves that meta and off meta was used to justify.
You can try to explain why I'm wrong with that part though

True, but I adressed this earlier in my post.

Wrong, you didn't explain anything.
You came fixated on a word that even if replaced has the exact same out come.

Either Marci is town, null, or scum to me in that game.
Either T3 is town, null, or scum to me in this game.
Since you feel high on the opinion to what I'm saying, explain why these are in anyway the same and also explain the differences we have in this game to the point of me joining in that game.

T3 did not change his vote between 1) and 3) so marci must have had two votes when VFP replaced in. I now think VFP is likley to be scum due to their use of flimsy reasoning and a verifiably false statment. I still want to pressure Bulge, so my vote stays where it is.

After I put you as a potential scum buddy of Meuh you are trying to come to the rescue. Its cute but I'm the wrong person to try that with.
I'm interested to why you have no interest on what the scum slip was with Meuh. Maybe trying to avoid it in the thread to gain negative attention to your buddy.

- Nice Ad hominem. The problem is that you didn't address my actual argument, namely that what you posted is verfiably false.

Meuh is going to be the lim today and a red flip means you are tomorrow.

Also the fact you won't commit to a vote on me, when Buldge hasn't done anything scum worthy yet in your words I have shows you are scum that can't commit.

This is just nitpicking and I really don't like how your argument seems to be more about insinuating that I don't actually belive what I'm saying.

Also UNVOTE: The Bulge because they have posted and I don't find anything particularly scummy about it.
I don't like VFP at all due to their Ad Hominem and strawmanning Meuh but I won't elim without a CC.

[Symbiosis]

feeling

VOTE: Symbiosis

Could you elaborate?

complaining about early TRs is what pinged me first, big newbscum vibes. then she threw an awkward townlean down on VFP only to walk it back immediately after Meuh called their content NAI.

she didn't react to any of VFP's new posts in between

, she changed her read based solely on what Meuh said, and I don't mean in a "well you've convinced me!" way, I mean in an appeasing way. also worth noting that symbi had both the loudest voices as her original townleans. changing her reads on a whim, throwing unsubstantiated early townreads on the 2 loudest players and no real reads anywhere else, and then also sheeping meuh's weuler read all looks very very much to me like newbscum pocketing and trying to gain an advantageous position.

First off I wasn't complaining about the TR's. I just didn't understand how someone could get three townreads this early and I wanted to get some info. I changed my mind because Meuh's post made me rethink my read and I realised that it was, in fact, unsubstantiated. The lack of reads outside of VFP and Meuh is because I am not very good at this game and there weren't many other posts to go off. As for sheeping the Weuler read, again, I'm bad at the game, didn't really have much else to go on, and I had confbias due to my TR the Meuh. Also could you explain what "in between" refers to.

feeling

VOTE: Symbiosis

Also this is weird. It seems like a random vote but it's well past RVS. Not sure if this is AI though, just want to know why you did it.

not loving this reaction either. reads somewhat nervous, like she knows full well it isn't a random vote.

I get nervous a lot and can't always communicate well. The reason for the reaction was because I found the vote strange and you didn't give any reasoning behind it. Now that you have explained, I think that your reasoning is legitimate and you come across as rather towny. You have brought an important prespective into the thread and backed it up with evidence.

[Symbiosis]

Here are my thoughts on all of the other player's alignments.

Meuh:

I don't like this at all. In Newbie 2061 (The only game I could find with you and Meuh where you were scum) you may have had Marci in your scumreads but you did not actively push on her beyond a couple of questions and saying that a marci lim would work for you.

Regardless if you like it, my point is correct.
The argument here is that I could be scum with T3 for saying I have a town lean.
The only argument you are using is that I use the word push instead of read. The wording changes nothing to this and it still proves that meta and off meta was used to justify.
You can try to explain why I'm wrong with that part though

True, but I adressed this earlier in my post.

Wrong, you didn't explain anything.
You came fixated on a word that even if replaced has the exact same out come.

Either Marci is town, null, or scum to me in that game.
Either T3 is town, null, or scum to me in this game.
Since you feel high on the opinion to what I'm saying, explain why these are in anyway the same and also explain the differences we have in this game to the point of me joining in that game.

T3 did not change his vote between 1) and 3) so marci must have had two votes when VFP replaced in. I now think VFP is likley to be scum due to their use of flimsy reasoning and a verifiably false statment. I still want to pressure Bulge, so my vote stays where it is.

After I put you as a potential scum buddy of Meuh you are trying to come to the rescue. Its cute but I'm the wrong person to try that with.
I'm interested to why you have no interest on what the scum slip was with Meuh. Maybe trying to avoid it in the thread to gain negative attention to your buddy.

Meuh is going to be the lim today and a red flip means you are tomorrow.

Tone of this post as a whole is a big yikes, like not only because I find it scummy but

it's probably not a great way to talk in a newbie game? Doesn't feel like posting to make in an environment where people are trying to learn how to play mafia

VFP your whole debunking of my argument is flimsy and at best only removes part of my argument, and I still don't see how any of this makes me scum, even if my logic was bad. This whole push feels very opportunistic, I clearly flipped a switch by bringing my ideas to the table.
You have no right to dictate who will be elimed today, what even is this

Sorry Meuh, I guess you and Sym picked the wrong player to shade there.

You can elim me, but I hope you reconsider Symbi, her behaviour has all been pro-town since the very start, I really don't understand how you can't see that. All they've posted has been helpful genuine newb!town.

Goood morning everyone! VOTE:

Kristopher

Having both an "e" and an "h" in your name is very suspicious...

Why is that?

Wheme for trying to push out of RVS
Meuh for continuing the joke in 13 instead of back tracking, ignoring, or panicking.
T3 because I have played with enough to get a read from his opening post.

Did you not care about my Pear dislike?

I get the pushing out of RVS stuff but I could easily see their questioning on my joke be an attempt to bait a newbie into saying something dumb,

just scum!Wheme asking questions until a poor angelic townie says something wrong and then jumping onto it as a push

I'm scumreading this due to the AtE which I have bolded in these quotes. I also really don't like the Weuler read in 92. I don't see how 67 can in any way be considered scummy and SR'ing Weuler due to a pressure vote when she did exactly the same thing comes across as incredibly hypocritical.

WhemeStar:

Post 173 appears to follow on from 168 so I will consider them together.

lol i dont believe the claim but i will sheep for the memes VOTE: meuh

I don’t think your scum for claiming

- That is really weird. If you disbelive the claim then there is no reason to not think VFP is scum as fakeclaiming = scum in the vast majority of cases. You also have shown no indication that you do belive the claim.

I don’t think actual PR should Cc

- There is no good reason why they shouldn't. If the real PR CC's this then VFP gets confirmed as scum and that is always a worthwhile trade D1.

The impression I am getting from this is scum trying to cast doubt on the Cop while trying to make it look like he isn't. That's the best explaination I could find for the weird reasoning. It is possible that this is just town who communicated poorly but I doubt it.

VFP:

They are almost certainly town due to the Cop claim with no CC.

The Bulge:

Nothing more to say that I havn't already said.

Weuler:

Post 64 seems rather towny. It's just a nice explanation of thought processes which doesn't seem likely to be from scum. Slight townlean

Pear:

Hasn't posted much. Very slight scum lean due to lack of posts but this could just be RL things getting in the way. There are much better choices for elimination and Pear could easily be town.

T3:

I don't like 85 or 175. I don't see how Weuler was sheeping with their Bulge vote and if there is anything VFP is

not

doing it's backtracking. Scumlean.

Kris:

Post 58 shows some thought processes, but not enough for me to get a read out of it. I like the question directed at T3 in 176 because it pushes for more information about a suspicious post but I don't see why anyone would vote VFP with no CC.

Final Thoughts:

Meuh is the right elimination for today. However, she is at E-1 already and hammering this early does not benefit town. Therefore I will VOTE: WhemeStar to put some pressure on.

[Symbiosis]

Symbiosis have you never seen a townie fake claim a PR because they are so sure on a read?

No, I haven't. Probably has something to do with me being new but I fail to see how this would benefit town. In this setup, fakeclaiming a PR would most likely get CC'd and you would find yourself on the reciving end of Eliminate all Liars. This would also mean that the real PR will out sooner than they otherwise intended making them a target for mafia. Also, if you are so sure of a read but the only way you can convincingly argue for it is to fabricate evidence, maybe your case is not as strong as you would like to think it is.

[Symbiosis]

VFP backtracked with his townread on me. Other than that their play has been towny.
VOTE: Meuh
This is e1. Time to claim.

There is just one minor problem with that. Before you voted, VFP, Wheme, Weuler, and Pear all had votes on Meuh. You can check their iso's from here. That was not E-1. That was a hammer.