Mewbie 2094 -- GAME OVER

[Takemikazuchi02]

Hi hi

Seconding goodmorning

[Takemikazuchi02]

VOTE: Bella

Take this as an encouragement to not play in the safe non-commital way you did last game, even if that's just your playstyle.

[Takemikazuchi02]

My vote of Bella was random, my comments on her playstyle are just that, comments.

This is... interesting when you immediately afterwards post 34. Granted the contexts are slightly different but it's an interesting dichotomy of thought.

It could be because she's still playing in an unfinished game.

[Takemikazuchi02]

@Bella

I discussed this previously. In my opinion RVS lasts longer than what most others think.

[Takemikazuchi02]

@goodmorning

You're asking people to guess the reason you're voting. Is it because you're used to playing with catboi and got a meta read on him?

[Takemikazuchi02]

As per the actual question, I think its not so much as real vote as a reactionary test. You're testing the waters to see who cares, and why they do.

You shouldn't have said this. I'm pretty sure its a reaction test too but reaction tests lose their effectiveness if everyone is aware of them so I came up with another reason why goodmornign would be asking that question.

[Takemikazuchi02]

VOTE: numbers

I don't like how you've been playing the returning player card since the start of the game.

[Takemikazuchi02]

People's behavior in the game isn't related to it?

[Takemikazuchi02]

@Syugar

You want to hang me for an RVS vote?

[Takemikazuchi02]

I'm gonna wate for syugar to respond to what I said

[Takemikazuchi02]

did I really write wate instead of wait? Must be tired.

[Takemikazuchi02]

I don't think I said so. Where did you get that idea?

You said you wanted to hang two people and I tought it safe to assume one of them was me given what you were talking about at the time. If not then who are those two people and why?

[Takemikazuchi02]

I don't think the read on me is against the consensus. I haven't been very active and lurkers SHOULD be scumread.

[Takemikazuchi02]

Right now, the only person I'm townreading is Bella because she's playing similarly to my first game with her.

I'm in the process of rereading the thread, I'll give my updated thoughts later.

[Takemikazuchi02]

[quote="In post 80, syugar"
We don't need the ICs talking about the theory of mafia, you already know how to play. Just thread bloat. [/quote]

I agree with this. Most the discussion because syugar got into the game has been dominated by people talking about theory which didn't do much to advance the game.

[Takemikazuchi02]

Mind fixing that kitten?

[Takemikazuchi02]

So far cat.jpg and goldfish have been playing how I imagine newbtown would play.

I'm remembering that goodmorning used a obvious react test similar to 40 early in my first game with him so that's a +town.

I think Syugar is town. He's been advancing the game and trying to find inconsistenties which is a big + in my book.

Aspho has been lurking from the beginning and didn't contribute anything to the game.
VOTE: Asphodelus

[Takemikazuchi02]

@Catboi

I've been busy and dealing with some real life stuff atm so I can't put all my mind into the game.

[Takemikazuchi02]

I didn't notice Bella voted for me.

@Bella

Mind explained your reasons?

[Takemikazuchi02]

@to2, you seem to not really be engaging with the wider thread - just stuff that affects you. See: this question to me. It feels survivalist.

Right now I'm on E-2 so I will focus my attention on defending myself, most people would do the same. Besides this you're right about what you're saying, this is my justification 193. Since I've been busy I only adressed things related to me since that's the easiest thing to do.

[Takemikazuchi02]

To all who played in our last newbie: who's different? Who's the same? Does that mean anything?

Aspho is the one that strikes me as most different compared to our first game. That plus her lurking makes her look scummy in my eyes.
You've been mostly the same as you were in my first game.
Goodmorning....I'm not sure. Something feels off about him and I'm not sure if its because he's had a lot more opposition than last game or because he's scum.

[Takemikazuchi02]

@goodmorning

I shared my reads on everyone except catboi and jumble
Catboi because I can't get any read on him yet and Jumble because I forgot they existed but now that I remember they are top 2 on my scumlist alongside Aspho because of lurking.

[Takemikazuchi02]

Because they are in my top 2 scumreads for the same reason I forgot about them, not posting anything for 7 pages.

[Takemikazuchi02]

I consider lurking to be very scummy and unless someone is exceptionally scummy in other ways we should hang a lurker day 1. Its not lazy justification this is how I play.

[Takemikazuchi02]

But if you consider lurking to be very scummy, then surely you should be extra attuned to lurkers, so then we're back to wondering how you could forget?

Did you forget that I said I was busy and dealing with some personal stuff and that I couldn't put my mind to the game?

[Takemikazuchi02]

Why can't you get a read on me? I feel like I've posted a fairly decent amount of content to be readable.

You've been generating discussion which is a big + in my book and I would have had you as a townread but you've had way too many posts arguing meta with goodmorning and it feels like bloating so I don't know where to put you yet.

[Takemikazuchi02]

Are allowed to ask for an extension? Because having two replacements just before day 1 ending isn't a good thing.

[Takemikazuchi02]

Did you forget that I said I was busy and dealing with some personal stuff and that I couldn't put my mind to the game?

No; I just don't think that makes sense as an explanation. If my head is out of the game, I forget my nullreads exist, not my top 2 scumreads.

You're making a lot of assumptions here .

[Takemikazuchi02]

@Tidus

Is this your first game on this website? And how much mafia experience outside of it do you have?

[Takemikazuchi02]

he is defending himself through saying that GoodMorning is just assuming that he shouldn't be able to forget his top 2 scumreads.

And? That's literally what goodmorning is doing.

[Takemikazuchi02]

My heart wants to say this is town although I can't actually claim his posting has been particularly telling.

I'd say he's more likely to be town than maf but I can easily see newb maf playing the way he's doing.

[Takemikazuchi02]

I don't think I am. When one is Town, one's primary concern is generally finding Scum. When one's primary concern is finding Scum, one generally doesn't forget the players they think are Scum. I don't think there are any big leaps of logic there.

You're wrongly assuming I was in the correct state of mind to hunt scum. I don't want to air my private life here but like I already said I was dealing with personal stuff and I was having a bad week-end.
You're also wrongly assuming I was scumreading Jumble and Aspho at the time. I had a vote on Jumble on page 3 but that was mostly a reaction test other than that I wasn't in the mood to evaluate people's activity so I wasn't scumreading people for lurking.

[Takemikazuchi02]

@Catboi

I agree with point 1. I think maf has more to gain by being friendly than town in newbie games because many newbies are more likely to trust you over an agressive townie.

[Takemikazuchi02]

So what you're saying is the forgetting they exist is what made you scumread them in the first place?

Jumble yes. Aspho no.

[Takemikazuchi02]

Between all the replacements, avatar changes and cat avatars, its getting really hard to keep track of everything.

[Takemikazuchi02]

My top elim choices atm are Tidus because he hasn't contributed anything and doesn't seem like he wants to and either goodmorning or catboi because if either of them flips red it would clear the other.

[Takemikazuchi02]

What does threadspewed mean?

[Takemikazuchi02]

@Syugar

I'd say there is a decent chance either gm or catboi is maf. I'm having a hard time reading scum because of all the replacements so I defaulted to activity levels.
I'm still considering who I want eliminated. I need to reread the thread and look for pattern with the replacements and the players they replaced.

[Takemikazuchi02]

T02 is probably threadspewed town in any case, these slots that are "likely to contain scum" have voted him or singled him out for being self-involved, nobody else has been laser-targeted as such for a lack of content

I think gm, catboi and bella have valid reasons for singling me out among the low activity people. My first game was with gm and bella and I was very active and agressive almost from start to finish all while being a doctor. In my second game, catboi moderated and I was just as active and agressive. When you compare those two games to the first half of this one, if I was in their place I would find it strange too.

[Takemikazuchi02]

Elaborate on your vote please.

Also UNVOTE: the worst

[Takemikazuchi02]

Bella's

[Takemikazuchi02]

Oh wow, pages flew by while I was asleep.
Let me catch up.

[Takemikazuchi02]

This is one of the weirder game states I've been in the past few years, but I think this game is still manageable if we focus on finding townies and not Mislimming them

Scumreading is really hard to do this game so I agree with this. My townreads are syugar and bella.

[Takemikazuchi02]

Elaborate please.

Why are you asking me to elaborate on things I already explained?

[Takemikazuchi02]

@Lukewarm Vivi avatar! Just checking in so I don't get replaced, no thoughts right now.

You realize you're gonna get eliminated at this rate?

[Takemikazuchi02]

I have a question I want answered before the day ends. To the people that townread me, why exactly?

[Takemikazuchi02]

@Tidus

claim role.

[Takemikazuchi02]

@Catboi

My problem with Tidus is that he doesn't look like he's even trying. I can understand not being able to make reads when you're new but he has added absolutely nothing to the conversation.
Does this mean he's maf? If he is then he's certainly being bussed but why would his partner not try to coach him at first instead of bussing him right off the bat because Tidus 100% never got coached? All this points to him being more likely to be town than maf to me which is why I haven't voted for him.

[Takemikazuchi02]

@Syugar

Because there is no chance he's getting coached and if you have a partner like him coach or bus are your only options with coach being the vastly superior option because maf doesn't gain anything by having one of them hanged day 1 which is why I don't think he's maf.

VOTE: Lukewarm I'll drop my vote here instead.

[Takemikazuchi02]

I understand why

Its because Americans can't help forcing their sensibilities on others

[Takemikazuchi02]

Its about time we ended day 1, we only have 18 hours left and I have nothing more to say.

[Takemikazuchi02]

@the worst

I side with catboi on this. i scumread Tidus after his first series of posts but after the second one I'm pretty confident Tidus is town too because I don't think things would play out this way if he was maf.

[Takemikazuchi02]

There isn't that much defense for Tidus. Its only catboi who obviously doesn't want him hanged day 1 because its his first game and me who came to the conlusion that he's town very recently.

[Takemikazuchi02]

What does LLD mean?

[Takemikazuchi02]

Wouldn't have guessed LLD stood for lambdadelta. Makes sense in a mafia forum I guess.
My first game had a no kills N1 too and just like that game I don't think an intentional no-kill scenario is worth considering so first we need to confirm so I think mass claim is worth considering because the game may already be over.

[Takemikazuchi02]

Personally I'm not confident that we"ll eliminate scum today and if we don't we'll be at lylo tomorrow and pr claims will lose a lot of their power because maf can cc and force a 50/50.

VOTE: goodmorning lets start this popcorn thing by forcing gm to claim.

[Takemikazuchi02]

E-2 btw

[Takemikazuchi02]

I haven't noticed any soft claims day 1. Which posts are you guys talking about?

[Takemikazuchi02]

I think every townie should value their survival almost as much as a pr in this format.
I do find worst's behavior weird though so I see where you're coming from.

[Takemikazuchi02]

I'm concerned by what you're doing here this game. In the game I modded you had a lot of passion in how you were trying to scumhunt and I admired that, and this game this game you feel distant and I haven't really seen you attempt to find mafia. I felt badly about how you got treated by the SE's in that game (they were far too condescending, imo), so I wanted to give you space, but we're in day 2 and I'm not really seeing a lot in the way of analysis from you still. You're being very passive. What's going on?

I said this before, this game is very unique with all the replacements and I'm not able to get good reads on people because of the lack of information which is I why i'm pro mass claim, it would give us enough infor to progress the game.

[Takemikazuchi02]

So far they have voiced a scum read on gm, and that was it.

And you. You've been playing in a very safe and non-commital way and you've only voted on the easy miselim Tidus which is why I voted for you day 1.

[Takemikazuchi02]

@Cat.jpg

If gm is maf then Luke is his partner. If the worst is maf then catboi is.

[Takemikazuchi02]

I know I'm never partnered with gm, but I also don't see catboi+the worst. Not with the way that the worst tried to pivot us off of tidus and on to catboi at the end of the day. The way he mirrored my own argument meant that from his pov, i would have been likely to follow him.

Me and the worst both shifting from tidus->catboi would have done major damage to the tidus wagon, and gm was scum reading catboi as well. That move could have promptly made catboi a leading wagon near the end of the day.

Once Tidus claimed he was guaranteed to be eliminated. Catboi was in no danger of being wagon'd one day before the day ends.

[Takemikazuchi02]

100% agreed on the mass claim though. We don't have as much information as I would like and mass claiming is the best solution to that problem.

[Takemikazuchi02]

After rereading ISOs what I said doesn't make as much sense as I thought.
This game is too hard. Everytime I try to solve it my brain fries.

[Takemikazuchi02]

I remember proposing a mass claim in my first game too on D2 after a no kill.

[Takemikazuchi02]

Bella, since you seem to be the most townread person you choose who claims first.

[Takemikazuchi02]

@Catboi

What do you mean?

[Takemikazuchi02]

@Catboi

This has been a problem the entire game. Normally I'd just start wagons the non-active people but this has been happening so much this game that I can't see it as something alignment indicative.

[Takemikazuchi02]

It's probably Gm/Takemi

Odd pairing, to use the words of Lukewarm, did you pull those names out of a hat?

[Takemikazuchi02]

Getting an extra day is huge. Lets not waste time like we did in the first two games.

[Takemikazuchi02]

two days*

[Takemikazuchi02]

While we're waiting for gm to answer, I'd like to point out that Bella, Syugar, Luke and Catboi all voted for tidus and worst and I'm confident both mafs are among those 4.

[Takemikazuchi02]

@Luke

Why don't like you like my post?

[Takemikazuchi02]

It does not look like good reasoning either, since in my experience scum try to be off miselim wagons if at all possible - or at the very least do a 1 on 1 off kinda thing.

I think both mafs jumping on the Tidus and the worst wagons makes perfect sense. The Tidus vote is very easy to justify because there wasn't much time before the day phase ended and Tidus wasn't doing himself any favors with his half assed engagement with the game. After that, all maf had to do was miselim two townies and there were many good candidates for that, unucky for them we just got an extra day phase.

The idea of just writing you or GM off as town just because you were not on the wagons seems silly.

Not shit I'm writing myself off, I know I'm town. gm however I'm not writing off, I think its possible that he's maf. The only person i'm confident is town is cat.jpeg

Like the fact that catboi opposed the tidus wagon, but compromised because we were approaching deadline.

His reason for opposing the Tidus wagon amounted to "eliminating newbies day 1 is bad for the forum" and in the end he joined the wagon anyway. All of this while I posted a well reasoned explanation for why Tidus wasn't maf that Catboi paid no mind to.

And like, it is also the fact that it is coming from you - someone suspicious, and are also not in the list of people.

If the scum team was something like T02+GM or T02+cat.jpeg, you would absolutely need to angle into getting elims inside that list. So your position in reference to the suggestion is not great

I don't understand what this means. What list? What position? What suggestion? Explain please.
I'll just say this, T02+cat.jpeg is the worst scumread I have ever read the game so far.

[Takemikazuchi02]

And like, it is also the fact that it is coming from you - someone suspicious, and are also not in the list of people.

If the scum team was something like T02+GM or T02+cat.jpeg, you would absolutely need to angle into getting elims inside that list. So your position in reference to the suggestion is not great

Also you're trying to turn this into an us vs them scenario where the 4 people I pointed to are all conviently townreads and completely disregarding the fact they miselim'd two people then conveniently pointed the finger on me who's voted for him in both days.

[Takemikazuchi02]

i guess but it will take forever

I'm worried about this too after what happend day 2.

[Takemikazuchi02]

Lets not waste time with the popcorn stuff. We're gonna need all the time we can get today.

I claim pr, everyone else claim. vt or pr.

[Takemikazuchi02]

At no point was I insinuating that you should be considering yourself as mafia, and I feel like you have to know that.

You literally said "

The idea of just writing YOU or GM off as town just because you were not on the wagons seems silly.

"
Are you talking about other people writing me off? Because your wording is confusing.

The list... that you presented... that started this conversation...

Then this argument makes no sense.

And like, it is also the fact that it is coming from you - someone suspicious, and are also not in the list of people.

If the scum team was something like T02+GM or T02+cat.jpeg, you would absolutely need to angle into getting elims inside that list. So your position in reference to the suggestion is not great

So your point is that I'm suspicious as if everyone else isn't, that I'm not in the list of people that I'm scumreading and that if I was maf I would want to miselim townie. Is that really it?

2) That a scum team of you+GM or a scum team of you+cat.jpeg would benefit from convincing people of this.

You can say this about anything. For example, a scumteam of you+bella would benefit from discrediting my scumreads. This is such a bad argument.

[Takemikazuchi02]

My argument isn't bad. In the absence of other proof, voting data is one of the best tools we have to find scum.

but the inverse of you saying that you were confident in both scum being in the list of 4 you presented is that you are confident that the other players are town.

You're completely wrong. If you're not scumreading someone that doesn't mean you're townreading them. This feels really manipulative.

If you are scum with either goodmorning or cat.jpeg, you absolutely need us to not start killing in the order Goodmorning->you->cat.jpeg (which is where I literally am with my reads) and it looked like you were trying to stop that course of action.

Why are saying this as if it was a done deal that gm was getting elim'd today and that I'd be the one to follow?

VOTE: Lukewarm I think you're setting things up for your partner counterclaiming me.

[Takemikazuchi02]

@Lukewarm

I prefer sharing what's on my mind instead of overthinking and if I'm wrong about something I'll change my mind.
The vote count analysis has been on my mind since the end of day 2 and I shared it as soon as I had the opportunity. I failed to mention gm because he wasn't on both wagons but he's far from being a townread for me.
I have decent information and we should be able to pinpoint who the maf are once the other pr claims and we share info.

[Takemikazuchi02]

@Luke

Did you misread my post?

[Takemikazuchi02]

I am indeed the jailkeeper.
My logic for choosing my targets was "If I was maf who would I want to kill?" so choose Syugar N1 and Bella N2.

[Takemikazuchi02]

An all town wagon can happen in one day but two days with all town wagons is not only unlikely but literally impossible this game. The only people not on day 2's wagon are me and cat.jpeg and we can't be a maf pair.

One maf is guaranteed to be on worst's wagon yesterday and the second maf is either on the worst's wagon too or he's cat.jpeg.

[Takemikazuchi02]

I found something interesting while skimming through the thread. At the end of day 1 652, gm miscounted the votes and dropped what he thought was the hammer vote on tidus(Tidus already got hammered at the time)
This means that 5 of the 6 uncleared players are involved in both miselim wagons.

[Takemikazuchi02]

Also with the knowledge that maf knew what the setup was since day 2, it makes catboi's mass claim proposal a lot more suspicious.
If the mass claim went through, one of the mafs could have claimed tracker, I die N2 and maf easily gets a miselim D3 and wins.

VOTE: catboi

[Takemikazuchi02]

I want everyone to share their reads list.
This day is crucial and we need to share info and discuss as much as possible so don't slack off please.

[Takemikazuchi02]

Then explain why.

[Takemikazuchi02]

Its more likely that Syugar and Bella were kill targets, if that's the case then the two mafs are between gm, catboi, cat.jpeg and luke.
All four of you, post your reads list. I'm not taking "I can't get any reads" for an answer. Its day 3 and lots of stuff happened.

[Takemikazuchi02]

Will you do it if I say please?

[Takemikazuchi02]

VOTE: goodmorning

Not impressed with your lack of engagement.

[Takemikazuchi02]

if gm is maf I will jail bella

[Takemikazuchi02]

Although I don't see the point of calling who I'm jaling. Maf could just do a no kill on purpose and have us elim bella

[Takemikazuchi02]

Although I don't see the point of calling who I'm jaling. Maf could just do a no kill on purpose and have us elim bella

[Takemikazuchi02]

Never mind I understand why now.
I'll repeat what I said, i'll jail Bella.

[Takemikazuchi02]

Gut feeling

[Takemikazuchi02]

Okay I'll jail cat.jpeg

[Takemikazuchi02]

Let's discuss this.
If gm is town, who are maf?

[Takemikazuchi02]

gm hasn't posted in 2 days.

[Takemikazuchi02]

I want to know why you think jpeg is a better choice than gm.

[Takemikazuchi02]

Give us something gm ffs. This day is crucial.

[Takemikazuchi02]

Why did you hammer? We still had time to talk.

[Takemikazuchi02]

I'll add this before the day ends. I think Luke is town.

[Takemikazuchi02]

Like I said. Its gonna be cat.jpeg

[Takemikazuchi02]

IF gm is maf that is

[Takemikazuchi02]

I think there is one maf between gm and catboi.

[Takemikazuchi02]

[Takemikazuchi02]

Luke played well. I was sure he was town after gm flipped red.

[Takemikazuchi02]

Maf thread too