Mewbie 2094 -- GAME OVER

[catboi]

Catboi do you still townlean t02? also you seem to avoid being aggressive in newbie games because 'it's prone to be misinterpreted' but you have townread t02 and Syugar (89, 90, 96) for being aggressive why? (with syugar u said in 110 the early aggressive posts may not have actually been that townie but in 147 you went back to saying it was)

I think very slightly but it's obviously weaker than at the start given his diminished presence in the game. The way he admitted to it and said he should be suspected felt vaguely town as I think scum tend to make excuses why people

shouldn't

scumread them. I wouldn't be stunned if he flipped mafia, really, but as of right now I probably wouldn't push for his elimination. How I conduct myself and how I choose to read how others conduct themselves are two different things. I think by virtue of having the SE tag, playing too aggressively might make me come off as intimidating and I want to give new players space to find their own voices rather than me dominating the discussion thread. However, a new player who comes in and chooses to scumhunt aggressively is still very town to me.

[catboi]

Cat.Jpeg
syugar, bella
goldfish
T02
Ash, Jumble
goodmorning


Would be very surprised if cat.jpeg was mafia at this point. jumble/ash I'm treating as essentially null, but jumble probably isn't mafia if goodmorning is.

[syugar]

viewtopic.php?t=89112&f=11&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

Tell me this isn't polarized from Aspho, I think I'm good here

I dont wanna read anymore, pls give specific examples. my head hurts

You can just skim the first page, it's quite obvious

[Takemikazuchi02]

To all who played in our last newbie: who's different? Who's the same? Does that mean anything?

Aspho is the one that strikes me as most different compared to our first game. That plus her lurking makes her look scummy in my eyes.
You've been mostly the same as you were in my first game.
Goodmorning....I'm not sure. Something feels off about him and I'm not sure if its because he's had a lot more opposition than last game or because he's scum.

[goodmorning]

Page 8:

Meant to say this in my previous post but I have a decent TR on Numbers atm. Most posts seem to be looking at the game from a Town perspective.

This I find

puzzling

because Numbers had 6 posts and most of that weren't particularly AI to me. I suppose this is partly influenced by having a little bit of knowledge of jumble: he has...confidence issues, to put it mildly, and I think that'd be true regardless of alignment.

The confidence issues were pretty obvious from the start, but not AI, no.

@catboi:
A. It is absolutely not still RVS.
B. if someone makes a bad argument to FoS you, an argument that feels, let's say, deceptive... you expect a town player to ignore it and not point out that deceptive behavior, despite the fact that deceptive behavior is sometimes a scumtell?

A. Well, not now it isn't but the way the votes were being made it felt like that at the time, the comment was valid. I think it is what it is and this isn't important to discuss.

B. I believe that you believe it's a bad argument. But let's review what was said here: syugar said your read is thin and looks fake, and this is shown because you aren't even interested in defending it. your rebuttal is that:

- I was trying to project a certain image so your read had substance to it (possibly, but how I feel now is how I felt at the time: that type of early game read ought to be trivial for a reasonably experienced player to fake, so i don't think much of it at all)
- getting annoyed at the ask for "actual substance" when it was "literally post 21" - to me these reads like getting overly annoyed at a light accusation which tends to come more from scum in my experience.
- your feelings are not facts (don't even think this is important)
- accusing syugar of "lies and slander" for saying your read seems fake, which is a pretty harsh accusation to make and again feels way more intense a response than it needs to be, because it's attributing ill intent to the actions of someone who could just as easily be making a mistake in reading you

A. I disagree, but you're right that it's not relevant now.
B. You missed the part where the rebuttal rebuts the "not interested in defending" point entirely, but that's more of a side point. The part about feelings was to address the "calling it ymmv means you're not interested in defending it" point, which was obviously incorrect on its face. "Getting overly annoyed" - who are you to decide what qualifies as "overly annoyed" coming from me? RE: trivial - it's my read on you, what you think of the initial point isn't really what I was looking for at that point or this. Finally, "lies and slander" - you know there's a reason I italicized that, right? Remember that my account is 10 years old and ~theorize~ about what internet era I might have grown up in.

Yes, people can be wrong, which is what I now think happened here. But if you don't think it's important for Town to point out when people might be deceptively wrong, then your perspective on the game is not one that I will ever understand.

Tbf t02 did identify they were coasting and being a bit rubbish.

And?

It felt slightly townie? I don't think scum!t02 draws attention to it, possibly deflects more into ash/numbers.

I don't love it, or the slot.

Can I also ask that people make some more useful votes?

What would you call useful, specifically?

I apologize, I haven't really been lurking. I just dont feel like I've anything _to_ contribute. It doesn't seem like there's much to state for any actual reason right now, and I don't relaly townsread anyone too hardly. Everything feels random, and I dont really know what's going on. There's no analysis, the games quiet, and most posts are discussions thereof.
The vast majority of posts are just 'people' should post more.

You know what? Heck it.

I need something to happen to talk about, and everyone is quiet since everyone is playing safe.

VOTE: T02

E-2

.

There, that should bring some discussion in.

Why would you make a vote and immediately say "for the reactions"? Also, where is your list, I am crying

[goodmorning]

Page 9: (v disappointed that more people have not provided readslists or at least said they will [Goldfish] [T02])

Ok, let's get some 'progress'

Questions for the group: did the catjoeg/goldfish chat look sus to anyone else? Why?
Is catboi pocketing me?
To all who played in our last newbie: who's different? Who's the same? Does that mean anything?
Is anyone scum reading syugar?

I don't love the dynamic between them, as I think I've mentioned.
Yes, but it's not like there's been any attempt to hide that.
Honestly, T02 and Ash are both pretty different. It's not necessarily 100% clear right now whether that's because of the different type of game state or if it's because they're different alignments. I think I've made it clear already that I don't like Ash's posting at all, and I'm liking T02 less as time goes on.
Not me.

Reads, since I asked, on a spectrum from most Town to least (gaps indicate gaps in level of seriousness):

syugar

Numbers

Bella
(1/2 gap)
Goldfish
T02
Cat

Ash

catboi

Feel free to ask about any of these.

If I'm your strongest scum read you should probably be putting words to that.

Probably!

It's like half vibes from back in the IC days, but the other half is this:
23 - I like the testing of the waters with the question about making assumptions. I would have liked it more if he dug in further RE: if our responses made him feel any kind of reads, but still.
33 - I also like the reaction to the T02 vote. It was a very newbTown way of looking at it (what the heck is this?) - Scum there I think would have either ignored the vote completely or tried to stir up trouble by asking for more details.
73 - points out that voting a slot that's not around to see the vote is odd.
So far he's primarily been very inwardly focused, which is NAI at this stage imo. I wouldn't say this is anything close to a lock read, but I do see more Town here than otherwise.

Okay, I'm actually seeing this now.

I don't think being inwardly focused is an alignment tell for numbers really (can pull links if necessary), and getting a strong townread off those posts feels contrived, really. It's possible we just have vastly different ways of looking at the game and you're picking up on things that I'm not but it seems kinda fake to me?

I agree that the inward focus is NAI, as mentioned in the post you quoted. Like I said, about 50% of it is vibes; back when I used to play as an IC, I would occasionally pick up on something that would just scream newbTown to me, and so far in the new days it hasn't misled me. What the "something" is, I could never figure out, but it's the one full gut thing that I trust from myself.

From town to scum (but imagine catboi and GM are tied)

Ash towny posts 29 34 59

NotAJumble, need more, could be scumbuddies with GoodMorning because GM is townreading them a lot for very little but seems too obvious, still town vibe kinda

Goldfish, stop referencing what you would do normally as scum, showing your so aware of it and telling people means you actually wouldnt do that as scum unless you were trying to lose.

Bella 26, 27, 28 arent scum/scum interactions. Post 140 and 163 in regards to goldfish (and me) completely go against 182 and 3 most recent posts which i dont love, not finding much AI stuff, do you scumread t02?

Syugar, im kinda lost on u

t02, hmmmmmmmmm

Goodmorning, has been voting for Catboi since their second post, dont know how to read that, I know how catboi would tho. Also post 62 'That said, while I was going back and checking votes, I noticed something mildly interesting about catboi's voting pattern, if you can call it a pattern yet.' what? (sorry if i missed where u answered) Also shoulda asked earlier but what is the beetlejuice tell, its not on the wiki. Post 157, who was i buddying. You and syugar did a 180. Especially you. You gave reasons but eh feels weird when ur sticking to the catboi scumread so hard.

Catboi do you still townlean t02? also you seem to avoid being aggressive in newbie games because 'it's prone to be misinterpreted' but you have townread t02 and Syugar (89, 90, 96) for being aggressive why? (with syugar u said in 110 the early aggressive posts may not have actually been that townie but in 147 you went back to saying it was)

Most ppl are town reading bella
Most ppl are scumreading ash
catboi and gm are heavily scumreading each other and voting for each other and i think everyone else is kinda split on them

I don't know if I understand the ordering of this 100%, another note to self to come back later and take another look.

Beetlejuice "tell" (it is not a tell) says that if anyone shows up immediately after being discussed/voted, that's a scumtell.

RE: the voting thing: his attempt (Mala didn't count it, I think because the tag broke) to jump from Bella to Goldfish was (what had been) a(n RVS) wagon to a wagon, rather than trying to start a new one. Not hugely AI in and of itself but could be mildly interesting if viewed as part of a pattern.

[Bellaphant]

@mod, jumble needs a prod
@catjpeg, have you got any questions for me? You seem a bit muddled on me, I tend to prefer to chat things through.

[Takemikazuchi02]

@goodmorning

I shared my reads on everyone except catboi and jumble
Catboi because I can't get any read on him yet and Jumble because I forgot they existed but now that I remember they are top 2 on my scumlist alongside Aspho because of lurking.

[goodmorning]

How do you forget the existence of one of your top 2 scumreads??

[Takemikazuchi02]

Because they are in my top 2 scumreads for the same reason I forgot about them, not posting anything for 7 pages.

[goodmorning]

That's some of the laziest read justification I think I've ever seen. Nobody has done anything scummier than just not post enough?

[Takemikazuchi02]

I consider lurking to be very scummy and unless someone is exceptionally scummy in other ways we should hang a lurker day 1. Its not lazy justification this is how I play.

[goodmorning]

But if you consider lurking to be very scummy, then surely you should be extra attuned to lurkers, so then we're back to wondering how you could forget?

[syugar]

I consider lurking to be very scummy and unless someone is exceptionally scummy in other ways we should hang a lurker day 1. Its not lazy justification this is how I play.

We shall not be doing that this game

[syugar]

In my opinion

[syugar]

Would be very surprised if cat.jpeg was mafia at this point.

Very surprised? Why?

[syugar]

The long deadlines on MS always hit me really bad

I think my d1 vote is pretty much decided unless revelatory information comes out

Feel free to ask me direct questions else I'm just going to coast

[Takemikazuchi02]

But if you consider lurking to be very scummy, then surely you should be extra attuned to lurkers, so then we're back to wondering how you could forget?

Did you forget that I said I was busy and dealing with some personal stuff and that I couldn't put my mind to the game?

[Cat.Jpeg]

@mod, jumble needs a prod
@catjpeg, have you got any questions for me? You seem a bit muddled on me, I tend to prefer to chat things through.

Can you explain any opinions you have about t02?
I think catboi didn’t specifically try to pocket you. After other ppls responses to your question do you still townread him?
I think you are probably town but wouldn’t be too surprised if you weren’t.

[Cat.Jpeg]

I don't know if I understand the ordering of this 100%, another note to self to come back later and take another look.

At that time I didn’t know any of Ash’s normal play style I just thought in general she looked like town. Now I’m not as sure so I would probably put her just above u and catboi. The rest of the order I still agree with.

[Malakittens]

SORRY WORK GOT SLAMMED LIKE A LOT

BOTH ASH & JUMBLEOFNUMBERS REQUESTED REPLACEMENT.

SEARCHING NOW

[catboi]

B. You missed the part where the rebuttal rebuts the "not interested in defending" point entirely, but that's more of a side point. The part about feelings was to address the "calling it ymmv means you're not interested in defending it" point, which was obviously incorrect on its face.

"Getting overly annoyed" - who are you to decide what qualifies as "overly annoyed" coming from me?

RE: trivial - it's my read on you, what you think of the initial point isn't really what I was looking for at that point or this. Finally, "lies and slander" - you know there's a reason I italicized that, right? Remember that my account is 10 years old and ~theorize~ about what internet era I might have grown up in.

Yes, people can be wrong, which is what I now think happened here. But if you don't think it's important for Town to point out when people might be deceptively wrong, then your perspective on the game is not one that I will ever understand.

I mean, that's the game of mafia, isn't it? You posted a reaction and I have to judge whether it's genuine or not. If you're town than I'm misjudging you right now. Such is the nature of day 1. If the lies and slander was meant to be a futurama ref, I have to admit you whooshed me with that one.

[catboi]

@goodmorning

I shared my reads on everyone except catboi and jumble
Catboi because I can't get any read on him yet and Jumble because I forgot they existed but now that I remember they are top 2 on my scumlist alongside Aspho because of lurking.

Why can't you get a read on me? I feel like I've posted a fairly decent amount of content to be readable.

Would be very surprised if cat.jpeg was mafia at this point.

Very surprised? Why?

I think their play has just been incredibly earnest and generally fits the model of nebie-town perfectly. I think they're the townies in the game.

That's some of the laziest read justification I think I've ever seen. Nobody has done anything scummier than just not post enough?

I consider lurking to be very scummy and unless someone is exceptionally scummy in other ways we should hang a lurker day 1. Its not lazy justification this is how I play.

Sometimes POE reads are valid if everyone active is towntelling, although I don't think we're at that mark yet. Flipping someone who hasn't posted enough to be readable isn't the worst thing to do in a 9 player game if you're short for other options.

[catboi]

I don't think Ash's lack of activity is alignment indicative, unfortunately. I do think she could be scum as some of the votes she made while she was active in the game were extremely puzzling to me.

[Malakittens]

Votecount 1.08

goodmorning: (1) catboi
Asphodelus: (2) Takemikazuchi02, syugar
Takemikazuchi02: (2) Bellaphant, Asphodelus
Catboi: (1) goodmorning

Not Voting (3): GoldfishFromTheMoon, NotAJumbleOfNumbers, cat.jpeg

With 9 alive it takes 5 to Eliminate.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2022-05-07 10:20:00)