Newbie 2112 | Ed Sheeran | Postgame

[DragonEater70]

Absolutely not

Icet or you (dragon) for me

Welp.
Did none of my arguments and explanations did even a tiny bit to change your mind?
Is the fact that I am unvoting before Icet claimed really that scummy?
If I really wanted to use the tactic you are accusing me of, I wouldn't have waited for Patch.

[DragonEater70]

And it's not my fault that Icet is gave up defending themself.

[DragonEater70]

EBWOP: that Icet gave up*

[DragonEater70]

Vox your current behavior makes no sense.
Either you decide to believe that Ice is a VT and then you should unvote them (and should also understand that I unvoted because I also think they are townie, or at least see something weird with that wagon and want to address it before proceeding)
OR
You think that Ice is scum, and therefore even if I were scum that tactic that you are accusing me of wouldn't really apply. If I was Ice's scum partner I wouldn't have needed to wait for E-1, if what I really wanted was for Ice to claim. It would have been terrible play for me to do so as scum.

[DragonEater70]

Oh you’re saying it doesn’t make sense as a scumbuddy either.

I did that exact thing in my previous game. Rode a wagon to e-1 then hopped off before it could be hammered.

Yeo that's what I'm saying.
Interesting that you did that, IDK what to say because that's not what I am doing though.

[DragonEater70]

Why would I want to run the risk of outing another pr when I think icet is scummy anyway?

If icet is scum, great, that’s a scum lim
If icet is town, oops, but these things happen

If icet is scum and you were bussing, now not, I should stay on him or vote you
If icet is scum and you’re town but wrong, I should stay on him
It icet is town and you’re being shady as scum then I should vote you
If icet is town and you’re town too then I’m not going to be much use to you since I’m locked into voting one of you two

I’m not the only person here. Convince others if you’re truly behind the nk wagon. But do it soon cos the clock is ticking.

(I’ll also await your inevitable AV vote)

I know you're nit the only one here. But the others aren't at this moment engaged in the conversation so right now I'm talking to you. If you don't care for conversation I guess we can just wait for the others to appear.

[DragonEater70]

I will probably vote you at some point this game, but I might not. Right now believe it or not you are my strongest town read. And I still have a gut feeling saying that maybe I should vote for you, haha.

[DragonEater70]

if I'm reading correctly, then town roles such as (whatever PRs are in column C, I didn't bother looking) have no way of knowing which column they are in. But they wouldn't CC because there is the chance that they are not in that column. It's far easier for mafia to claim PR if they ARE in column C, actually.

Yeah you're right here - a solo PR wouldn't CC because they wouldn't know if they are the solo PR. Hmm... column c thing is interesting, though seems to indicate towards scum!Ice which you're disavowing a little here.

Am I missing something? How would column C indicate Scum!Ice?

[DragonEater70]

Either way, Ice gives us the most info rn I think Ans tbf I don't think there's enough appetite for a compro wagon (nk) or a flash dragon wagon

Yes it would indicate that. That's why I wanted OMI to fullclaim. However since then OMI did make some good posts so now I'm not sure about them. I still think him fullclaiming is the safest for us, but it seems no one agrees with me, and I dunno how much I can pressure OMI by myself. I mean I could try and maybe you guys join? If anyone's up to it I don't mind pressuring him to fullclaim, but I also see what Bella is saying here:

Either way, Ice gives us the most info rn I think Ans tbf I don't think there's enough appetite for a compro wagon (nk) or a flash dragon wagon

I mean I really don't know if there's any appetite for a renewed OMI wagon, either. But I guess I can try?
VOTE: OMIGRON

BTW guys just to be clear about my opinion of Ice:
I think that a lot of the things he did that you guys read as scummy are actually NAI (for example, the rolecop thing), but it just weirds me out how a person could only post random NAI things, and no real big scumtell or towntell. Which does make them a bit sus in my eyes, because mafia try to stay undecipherable I guess? I do think that if you examine Ice through critical lenses, his first posts could be interpreted as a slip (where he intended to post something in the scum PT and posted in the main thread instead? IDK), but overall the broad agreement about them being scum doesn't feel geniune to me, at all. I do however agree that it's better to mislim them now rather than later, but I think the same applies to NK who's null on most readlists? And NK's flip would be revealing about other players, unlike Ice's flip which I think won't.

And yeah I would vote NK but clearly nobody supports this?

[DragonEater70]

Wait what
I quoted Bella twice?
I meant to quote this:

Am I missing something? How would column C indicate Scum!Ice?

Argh - scum!OMI even - he's the one who claimed, not Ice.

[DragonEater70]

Good point, in my next post I will do a VCA about it.

What's a VCA?
Is it Vote Count Analysis?

Also, thanks for the support, OMI. I really appreciate it.

[DragonEater70]

Why are you preferential to a NK wagon anyway? I thought you said you read him as null - you seem to be reading Ice as either null or minor scumlean as well. What information does a NK flip give us? He's not really had much interactions (especially compared to IceT).

Ice is a minor scumlean, it's the wagon on him that seems really off to me.
NK is null but where everyone else is a townread (or claimed PR), null is a good lim.

Regarding flipping, let's look at all the options:
Ice flips town - everyone says "whoops my bad, I guess Dragon was right" (or worse, they say "whoops, I guess Dragon was scum for taking their vote off"). No one looks very townie or scummy for pushing them.
Ice flips scum - I guess it gives a small suspicion that NK was their partner, but it's really unlikely that we'll follow that. There's no player who looks very townie or scummy for this, I think.
Ice flips rolecop - gives no information IMO.
NK flips rolecop - almost confirms Ice as scum.
NK flips goon/roleblocker - IMO this actually gives us information because unlike Ice, NK has taken some stances and we could interpret them to clear people as almost confirmed town.
NK flips town - this does tell us some things about Ice and about the people who were on the wagon, IMO.

[DragonEater70]

Dragon I have had a moment of clarity and I think the fundamental difference in terms of the discussion is you’re suggesting that fmpov “if I’m (dragon) getting off icet because I’m scum and I want to run up another claim” then this means that icet must be town, but you could easily both be scum and neither scenario convinces me that you’re town…

Now one could conclude from that then that I should change my vote to you.

But notice the difference here: I believe icet to be scummy; and although I also view you as scummy (not null!) I still don’t want to shift votes because might out you if you’re a pr (I don’t want that because I’m town) or might fragment the wagons and result in a no-lim (I don’t want that because I’m town)

If the icet wagon was categorically not happening, I’d vote for you. But not before, because of the risks associated as above. Whereas what you’ve done is court those very same scum-desirable risks.

I guess good for you for understanding what I meant? I still don't understand how this makes me scummy... My strategy and priorities are just different to site meta, that's all. Maybe site meta is right and I'm wrong. Maybe I'm right and site meta is wrong. I don't think in either case using a different strat makes me scummy.
I don't really care if you vote for me honestly because I think the other players all know deep down that I am town. I'm actually going to laugh my ass off if you guys decide to lim me today and realize your mistake as I flip town.

I'm still preferential to an NK wagon, and still would love to see OMI fullclaim. I will vote whichever of these two gets votes.

I'm also still open to hearing what some of the newbies have to say about any suspicions they have of the SE's. I explained why earlier - there's not enough

really

scummy people around in my eyes and it makes me think that one of the obvtown players is actually a scum.

[DragonEater70]

DragonEater70 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 7:40 am
but my gut says there's a scumplayer among the SEs, and that they are blending in really well. What do you guys think?


I've had the same feeling in the game for a while now, mainly because I see a lot of townspeople and few potential scum on my list.

DragonEater70 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 6:07 pm
I will probably vote you at some point this game, but I might not. Right now believe it or not you are my strongest town read. And I still have a gut feeling saying that maybe I should vote for you, haha.


From my point of view, the discussion between AurousVox and DragonEater70 seems to me like a discussion between two townies.
AurousVox
: Could you. consider voting for someone other than DragonEater70 in D1? or better, could you expand to include anyone else to vote besides IcetFeelsPain and DragonEater70?

@AV,
The claimed PR is asking you to consider something. Since site meta is to always believe claimed PR apparently, could you please listen to the person who should be at the top of your townlist?
Not necessarily agree wtih, but listen to.
Thanks.

[DragonEater70]

And I don’t think it’s about strats either

1. Can you explain why you’d rather vote a null read over a scumread? Is it just because of the above claims about info?

2. Can you explain why you’d want to lim a claimed pr d1? What town purpose does that serve?

3. Can you explain why you want a full claim? What extra info does that give us (as town) that we can’t wait until tomorrow to find out?

I would like to preface this post by saying that I'm a bit upset because I was typing a lengthy reply and then my computer crashed. So I am just going to have to type it again, I guess.

1. Both info, and the fact that although Ice sounds

a little

scummy, it actually feels like their wagon is an engineered one. Like I actually believe there's about 60% chance that the wagon was carefully engineered by scum to get a mislim.

2. I absolutely don't want to lim Omi right now, you got me all wrong. I am voting them to apply pressure to get them to fullclaim. And why I want them to fullclaim is answered in point no. 3.

3. Let me explain it this way: earlier, maybe at different points in time, both you and me had OMIGRON at the bottom of our readlists. And both you and me, as well as I think 4 other players, thought it was smart to vote (or declare intent) OMI. This was for a reason, as back at that point we saw OMI as scummy, right? Now, I think that if OMI were scum, and they saw a declared intent to hammer, and they knew they'd failed to defend themselves, the only logical thing to do would be to claim PR. What a fantastic defense! This buys Scum!OMI at least one more day to be alive (whereas without the claim they would've probably been hammered already), and so the scumteam can get a free mislim, and a free NK. That's really wonderful for them. And the thing is, without a fullclaim, there's a 0% chance of counterclaiming. So without a fullclaim, Scum!Omi is safe. Let's, for the sake of argument, assume we are in the first column and the first row. That means town doc and town cop. The cop sees OMI's vague claim and assumes they are the doc. The doc sees OMI's claim and assumes they are the cop (or even the Town Tracker). This is a perfect trap that works out perfectly for Scum!OMI, because the only way to reveal him as scum is if BOTH other PRs claimed, which is extremely bad for town. And it's very unlikely they'd do so because they don't have any motivation to (how could they ever know OMI is lying?), and they don't want to die.
So yeah, I think it's a bit stupid to think tht just because OMI made a vague PR claim then we should believe him and let the matter rest, without AT LEAST asking for a full claim and seeing there's no CC.

[DragonEater70]

Dragon I have had a moment of clarity and I think the fundamental difference in terms of the discussion is you’re suggesting that fmpov “if I’m (dragon) getting off icet because I’m scum and I want to run up another claim” then this means that icet must be town, but you could easily both be scum and neither scenario convinces me that you’re town…

Now one could conclude from that then that I should change my vote to you.

But notice the difference here: I believe icet to be scummy; and although I also view you as scummy (not null!) I still don’t want to shift votes because might out you if you’re a pr (I don’t want that because I’m town) or might fragment the wagons and result in a no-lim (I don’t want that because I’m town)

If the icet wagon was categorically not happening, I’d vote for you. But not before, because of the risks associated as above. Whereas what you’ve done is court those very same scum-desirable risks.

I guess good for you for understanding what I meant? I still don't understand how this makes me scummy... My strategy and priorities are just different to site meta, that's all. Maybe site meta is right and I'm wrong. Maybe I'm right and site meta is wrong. I don't think in either case using a different strat makes me scummy.
I don't really care if you vote for me honestly because I think the other players all know deep down that I am town. I'm actually going to laugh my ass off if you guys decide to lim me today and realize your mistake as I flip town.

I'm still preferential to an NK wagon, and still would love to see OMI fullclaim. I will vote whichever of these two gets votes.

I'm also still open to hearing what some of the newbies have to say about any suspicions they have of the SE's. I explained why earlier - there's not enough

really

scummy people around in my eyes and it makes me think that one of the obvtown players is actually a scum.

So you have said the following:
1. Icet is town because everyone wants the elimination.
2.there might be scum who is wrongly townread.

I tried to verify 1 but there is one person who did push icet but only voted and then unvoted them once and who now seems to sneakily try to get icet not eliminated.
Patchwork.

Which does fit 2 but not 1.

That's interesting but why doesn't it fit 1? He did declare intent to hammer on page 34.

[DragonEater70]

OMI, you nissed patchwork declaring intent to hammer at p. 34.

[DragonEater70]

What you are saying about the flip is interesting but I'm more interested in your opinion of whether we should eliminate them today or not.
could you please state clearky what's yiur judgment in this matter (after you take note of the Patchwork intent to hammer at page 34)?

[DragonEater70]

I am saying this because you said you are going to make the VCA in response to my saying that something is off with the wagon, and you agreed with it.

[DragonEater70]

Dragon could gamma be the supposed icet scum buddy seeing as they haven’t voted / declared hammer intent? And they’re also your SE target.

Makes me wonder if you’ve hitched your whole schtick on the icet wagon being universally supported when there’s actually someone who isn’t supporting it and fits your scum profile? And why you maybe haven’t considered that?

And why

I’m

the one picking that up following omi’s post instead of you?

(And to be clear, I don’t think GE is scum)

Yeah that does make sense.
I picked it up but I'm actually really not concentrating right now. Like I just went ny last few posts in my head and I was like WTF? Why would I vote either Omi OR NK based on my arguments? I should be voting either Bella or GE.
So I came back here to confess that I let your over-charismatic, super obvtown ass derail me from my thought process (as you recall it was you who suggested I voted NK, I was going for an SE vote before that).
So yeah I'mdumb or something but I agree that I should be voting GE. Fml I feel so stupid right now, forgive me town.
VOTE: Emerald

[DragonEater70]

Went over my last few posts*

[DragonEater70]

Re: fullclaiming, that can happen tomorrow if omigron is still alive, so I see no reason to push for it today given the benefits I outlined earlier of keeping the claim partially hidden.

And why does the icet wagon feel engineered compared to say the omi one? Or were they both being pushed by scum?

None of your answers have satisfied me tbh and that comment you made earlier about laughing if we lim you and you flip town is just…well it’s disappointing

I fear this argument will be dragged out again though and I see you’ve tried to engage others so let’s just try to steer clear of repeated topics (myb for raising the fullclaim again I guess)

Sorry for disappointing you?
And cool, let's not get into repeated topics.

[DragonEater70]

Idk the OMI one felt genuine because the players on it felt geniune, and there were legit reasons to suspect OMI. The Icet things feels a bit fabricated because you really have to bendover backward to get a real scumtell out of them. It's mostly goofy NAI stuff, IMHO.

[DragonEater70]

saying i'm skeptical about icet doesnt just override that "i declare intent to hammer" lol, i can be skeptical and want to vote. i can hammer right now, even! but i'm not fucking gonna because we still have time.

Am I missing something? Pretty sure the current VC has Ice at E-2.
Otherwise agree with you.
Idk if it's an honest mistake or if OMI is being shady here. I honestly don't know what to think about OMI anymore.

[DragonEater70]

which is what very often happens in my friend group mafia game.

this ain't your friend group mafia game though

Fair.

[DragonEater70]

i approve of the icet wagon but i'm gonna be honest: a little skeptical about them not defending themself! i declare intent to hammer but do i Really want to???? also when does the day end

I don't like the way patchwork declares its intention to hammer here. He says that he wants to hammer but at the same time shows doubt about it, that is, he is not sure if he really wants to hammer.

However, if we add him to the list of players willing to execute IcetFeelsPain, we would only be left out of Gamma Emerald (Roden) and look how curious, Roden was a player that I began to distrust and to be honest I expected more from Gamma Emerald who until now has not expressed a clear position in the game.

It seems to me that the only thing the Scum Gamma Emerald is waiting for is for D1 to end soon so he can rearrange his game, Gamma Emerald can't defender IcetFeelsPain because it would look weird and would easily give them away. Don't you think guys Gamma Emerald has had enough time to read the game and take a clear position on the players?

IcetFeelsPain

: What do you think of Roden?

Roden

: What do you think of IcetFeelsPain?

Please be as detailed as possible in your assessments.

Second time I'm going to ask the same thing

IcetFeelsPain

: What do you think of Gamma Emerald?

Gamma Emerald

: What do you think of IcetFeelsPain?
Please be as detailed as possible in your assessments.

Soubds good but this still doesn't answer rhe questions I have.
Who
Do
You
Think
We
Should
Vote?


And why?

And could you pleeeease vote them already, whoever it is?

I'm sorry for being impatient but ffs I am so tired of whatever has been going on recently and I just want to have a freaking wagon which makes sense.

[DragonEater70]

What you are saying about the flip is interesting but I'm more interested in your opinion of whether we should eliminate them today or not.
could you please state clearky what's yiur judgment in this matter (after you take note of the Patchwork intent to hammer at page 34)?

I meant this part actually. @OMI please tell me:
1. Do you think it's a good idea to eliminate Ice?
2. Do you think it's a good idea to eliminate Emerald?
3. Who else do you think might be scum based on your two recent posts and analysis?

[DragonEater70]

Now excuse me but I will be going to sleep. I trust you, fellow newbies, not to just blindly believe everything the SE's say.
See you tomorrow (unless you all decide to flash wagon me while I'm sleeping :p)

[DragonEater70]

NK flips goon/roleblocker - IMO this actually gives us information because unlike Ice, NK has taken some stances and we could interpret them to clear people as almost confirmed town.

Who does NK flipping as scum reveal as almost confirmed town? I'd argue maybe IceT cause scum throwing their other scum under the bus for a 'scumslip' that early would be unhelpful and incredibly risky (plus kinda a dick move to a newbie partner), but apart from that their push on Roden was nowhere near firm enough for that to disqualify a potential NK/Gamma scumteam... and I read Ice as scummier than NK so have no idea why I'd pursue a wagon against him just to clear the guy who even you agree is scummier.

NK flips town - this does tell us some things about Ice and about the people who were on the wagon, IMO.

What does this tell us? That IceT was scum and should have indeed been the day 1 wagon and the people who executed NK over them were wrong?

I feel like I'm missing something because I'm really not seeing a world where a wagon on NK is a better wagon than IceT. Heck even if we take into account the scum on IceT theory then Ice flipping town would give credence to your theory and give us an interesting topic for Day 2 alongside the OMIGRON role discussion. You've since changed your competing wagon to Gamma so I'm not sure if you still believe in this but just wanted to raise this as I'm honestly still confused about it.

Okay I'll be honest: I am confused on who I should be voting. I actually don't have a clear scumread on anyone at this point in time. I guess we could just let Ice flip town and then discuss these topics on D2 as you suggest, but as a townie (who's a newbie) I find it really hard to accept an elimination that I am almost certain is a mislim.
And honestly none of my last 3 votes (NK, the switch back to OMI, and Emerald) were really motivated by my own scumreads. If you read a bit back in the last few pages you'll see that I was actually trying to find out what the opinions of the others was before making a vote, but then I was being called out for not voting the person I "should" have been voting and so I placed a vote. Is it possible that I am being manipulated by AV in order to make me look scummy? Probably not intentionally.

Ugh I'm so tired of the last few pages of this game. I think I'm gonna take a break for a few hours and organize my thoughts.
I will UNVOTE: for bow because as I said, I'd made these votes under oressure rather than because I fully believed in them.

[DragonEater70]

However this NK thing was actually a miscalculation which you ascribe to being derailed from because of AV suggesting that's what your logic was indicating, and then in the same post switch your vote to Emerald because AV suggested that's where your logic was heading to?

Yes exactly. You see why I feel manipulated? Ugh.

[DragonEater70]

I'll respond to the rest of your post after my break which I just said I would take.

[DragonEater70]

Dragon could gamma be the supposed icet scum buddy seeing as they haven’t voted / declared hammer intent? And they’re also your SE target.

Makes me wonder if you’ve hitched your whole schtick on the icet wagon being universally supported when there’s actually someone who isn’t supporting it and fits your scum profile? And why you maybe haven’t considered that?

And why

I’m

the one picking that up following omi’s post instead of you?

(And to be clear, I don’t think GE is scum)

Wait you know what doesn't make any sebse about this post?
Everything.
AV doesn't think that Gamma is scum, so why are they even suggesting to me that I should think they are scum???
And furthermore, what does it mean "the supposed Icet scumbuddy"? Does AV think Icet is scum all by themself? Or does AV think Icet is not actually scum and therefore doesn't have a scum buddy?
I don't know how I ignored this earlier but this post is 100% bullshit.
I am voting AV, and I don't care how expected or inevitable this was. The only thing making it inevitable from AV's viewpoint is if they know they are scum.
Sorry, but like what.
VOTE: Vox

[DragonEater70]

We’re in real danger of no-limming if things don’t pick up soon.

I think you're panicking a little too much here - we have two days left and I've said I'll vote IceT if deadline is soon cause I prefer an Ice execute over no exe.

I agree with you and I think that Vox's behavior about elimination in general is sus. Like why do they abandon wagon on OMI but say they still suspect OMI? Why is it so important to lim either Ice or me when earlier I was among their townreads for the majority of the game?

[DragonEater70]

@dragon, can you explain your vote on gamma in bullet point?

Nope, I was just not focused, and I saw that Vox was saying it fitted my theory. And I was feeling pressured to vote in general even though I didn't really know who to vote. So I just voted.

[DragonEater70]

You can call this scummy if you want. I was just feeling overwhelmed by the sheer negative reaction that my play, which I conceived as a super amazing town play, got. And it made my head spin a little and I wasn't thinking straight.

[DragonEater70]

Oh dragon I’m sick of you trying to blame me for your shitty votes

Fine.
I'm sick of you calling me scummy for not going with a really stupid wagon that doesn't make any sense to me, and waiting to see if I can catch someone in a lie/scumslip before I unvote.

[DragonEater70]

Oh dragon I’m sick of you trying to blame me for your shitty votes

Fine.
I'm sick of you calling me scummy for not going with a really stupid wagon that doesn't make any sense to me, and waiting to see if I can catch someone in a lie/scumslip before I unvote.

PS why did you originally support the icet wagon?

Originally I was feeling something was off because I couldn't get a proper scumread on anyone, but Ice was the scummiest I could find so I just went with the wagon on them. Then I realized that the wagon was probably being pushed by scum who is aiming for a mislim.
Btw, I have mixed feelings about Ice's recent readlist. Idk if they are trying to curry favor with me or what but the fact that they changed from me and Comet being scummy to me abd comet being townie is a bit weird.
However, as I do believe that Comet and I are town, that's not THAT weird.
I really don't know honestly what to make of it.

[DragonEater70]

It wasn't actually about me, it was about your position around av, which just seems copies from dragon. You are still equating activity 'constant paragraphs' with town, but not applying this to nk for....reasons?

Dragon being scummy is nothing to do with you, it's tone, buddying , reachyness, etc.

Who was I buddying this game? Honest question bc right now I don't feel like I have a lot of people on my side so it's a bit weird.

[DragonEater70]

DragonEater70: Give me your opinion who is SE and who is Newbie.

DragonEater70: We should let the SE players take care of unmasking the SE scum and we should worry about finding the newbie scum, don't you think? now tell me, where is the newbie scum?

Okay I'm slightly confused by your post. The mods listed NK, AV, Roden/GE and Bella as SE's.

When I say SE's in regard ti my theory I mean all the SE's except NK because he stands out for having a much lower activity level and being generally thought of as null, unlike the rest who are oretty much universally townread for their solid opinions and playstyle.

I don't think it makes sense to leave finding the scum in the hands of other players because that relegates me and the rest of the newbies to a position of being night kill fodder, which I don't like. The whole point of a newbie game is to help the NEWBIES learn how to play, scumhunt, etc.
I feel it would be blatantly unfair and quite infuriating to be told that only the "big experienced SE's" should work on solving the game and we should just watch and vote whoever they tell us to.

I don't know who is the scum among the newbies.
Up until your last few posts you were my biggest scumread. Then you made some really good posts and went up the position. Ice is second scummiest but I can't say they are scummy enough to deserve an actual lim. And the fact that their wagon is too widely supported shows to me that there's scum on it.
I am willing to consider that they are actually being bussed, too. I just don't think it makes a lot of sense to bus Icet D1, but then maybe the other scunplayer is not playing well? Still I feel it's unfair that just merely for pointing this possibility out I'm seen as scum, but sure I guess we can lim Ice and see what happens. I am not gonna vote them though.

[DragonEater70]

Do you want to vote icet? Does dragon?

It is incorrect to assert that the entire player list wants to lim icet.

I wanted until I saw it.
Idk why OMI is not hammering Ice, but they had Ice at the bottom of their readlist last time I checked.

[DragonEater70]

Okay OMI actually explained why they are not hammering Ice. It's basically because they share ny opinion. Cool.

[DragonEater70]

Okay a lot of interesting stuff were said about Gamma Emerald so I think I'm just gonna ISO her quickly.

[DragonEater70]

Okay a lot of interesting stuff were said about Gamma Emerald so I think I'm just gonna ISO her quickly.

Okay I just did, and one main thing pops to my mind:
Gamma is making a lit of comments and criticizes olay, but doesn't really give any opinions (other than not finding Ice particularly towny). So here's what I think about that:
1. I misremembered, GE wasn't actively on the Ice wagon, and neither was Roden. So theoretically, the COULD be Ice's partner who was just distancing a bit without knowing that Ice was the second candidate for a lim after OMI. This actually makes me want to lim Ice.
2. I feel like not giving opinions about players but just comments is weird (like she was criticizing a lot of AV's posts and then said she was townreading him. So what's the point of the criticism? Is it just a soft way to throw shade which she could later back up from if needed, but that could enable her to sow distrust on AV? On the other hand,
3. Activity is NAI and obviously GE hasn't managed to catch up yet, so it's possible she just doesn't want to give full opinions based on past actions?
My main takeaway is that I was wrong about why I felt the Ice lim doesn't make sense, and that I want GE to catch up and voice more opinions.
UNVOTE:
I guess I'm declaring intent to hammer as well even though Omi and Comet already have?

[DragonEater70]

aw shit do we really want to elim icet

Wait aren't yoi voting Ice, dude? Because you eant to eliminate them?

[DragonEater70]

hf tmrw!

What's HF?

[DragonEater70]

Oh okay, thanks!

[DragonEater70]

aw shit do we really want to elim icet

Wait aren't you voting Ice, dude? I assume this is because you want to eliminate them?
So what's the shock now?

EBWOP

[DragonEater70]

I mean…

Omi I guess that’s actually a fair point about inconsistencies. Maybe I’ve not played enough newbie games (I played on here a lot in the early 2010s) to be able to forgive play like that (play which at least “back in the day” would have seen people voted) Maybe I will try to be more open minded about these seeming contradictions, but of course it is hard to not act on the impulse of suspicion when something rings those alarm bells. I came back to newbie queue because I thought I’d have forgotten all my experience but it seems that some of it has been hard-wired into me…

Dragon - I’d like to ask you this: given your new understanding of the GE position relative to icet, can you now see why I was riding you so hard recently?

@patch earlier you said you didn’t want to form a wagon elsewhere, why the change of heart?

I can see why you would think that I am being really dumb, but I can't see how it would make me scummy. I mean I was being dumb, not scummy (IMO).

[DragonEater70]

The bigger point is, if YOU are the scumbuddy of icet, you wouldn’t want to admit that there’s someone who hasn’t wanted to lim them, because then it calls into question your whole reason for getting off the wagon in the first place. It undermines your reasoning for discontinuing your bus.

Well, considering I had just admitted that, don't you think it's strange reasoning to say that this makes me scummy?

[DragonEater70]

Fine.
VOTE: IcetFeelsPain

[DragonEater70]

I'm gonna be so mad if they flip town and it tuens out my theory was right, though.

[DragonEater70]

Which theory?

About Ice being town?

[DragonEater70]

Dragon. You said you like claim stuff so it’s your chance to enjoy that aspect of the game tomorrow - so if you’re town, don’t fuck it up, think things through, and act with wisdom and integrity! If I’m not around to call you out on it because I’ve been killed, then please know that my spirit will haunt you if you make suboptimal play!

Yeah you can trust me I will enjoy it very much

[DragonEater70]

Ohhhhhh yeahhhhhh

VOTE: Salsabil

@OMI, please full claim at your leisure.

[DragonEater70]

Guys we are ON for a perfect town victory!

What is the best order of claims? Omi first?
Then any investigations?
Then any protect / jails?

I think that’s our order.

I am pumped!!!! I’ve been refreshing this page non stop lol

———

Interesting omi, let me think about that. You might need to claim first.

Agreed.
Also, I've been refreshing this as well.

[DragonEater70]

I'm heavily leaning towards OMI just fullclaiming now. Is now the time for popcorning or nah?

Let me explain you...

If only two people say to have PR we will confirmed two townies 100%.

If three people say to have PR, popcorning will taste better.

I love popcorn but let's start by you making your full claim, including full investigative results if any.

[DragonEater70]

Here's a readlist I made during the night (so after Ice's flip and before I knew that nobody died):

Vox

- honestly a very strong player. IceT's death basically dispelled any possibility of my crackpot theory being true. Very clearly an obvtown. If you think it's weird he's so high on my list after I voted him, then honestly it's not. It was my vote on him which was weird. I was actually tilted at the end of D1 because of his accusations of me (which ironically led to him suspecting me more). Obvtown.

Comet

- actually has strong town vibes, and argues with well founded logic. Definite townie.

Bella

- still nothing scummy in her ISO. Definite townie.

Patch

- strong town tone, a bit more contribution than earlier. I guess they feel comfortable following Vox's lead, which is honestly good play considering Vox is an obvtown and very strong player. Moderate townlean

Omi

- slight Townlean. I did like their recent read list and some of their arguments against Ice and also about me not being scummy just because I'm inexperienced and inconsistent

(and tilted)

. However I cannot remove them from the possible elimination list before they fullclaim and prove they are town.

NK

- still mostly null. The Ice scumflip actually gives some substance to the accusation of TMI outing his partner, but IDK if Ice would actually do that, and NK's response basically ensired that one of them would be limmed D1. Sure scum!NK would realize they should have responded any other way than accusing Ice of a TMI slip and voting them? Seems like an incredibly weird play, but I can't say this makes them townie in my eyes either - it

could

be Refuge in Audacity.

GE

- the only slot never to seriously push Ice, even though there was every reason to. Obviously pretty scummy.

Right now I don't see any reason to change it until some people (read: OMI) claim their role.

[DragonEater70]

@dragon I think we get the role before the results. Eg if he’s tracker we don’t want scum to know if they were tracked or not until after they’ve claimed pr or not

Oh interesting.

[DragonEater70]

I disagree however, and you'll understand why when OMI fullclaims.

[DragonEater70]

Hmm.

Is it worth getting everyone to claim pr / not pr, then omi full claims, then the rest?

No. Doing this will make it far easier for OMI to fake claim if they are scum.

[DragonEater70]

Hmm.

Is it worth getting everyone to claim pr / not pr, then omi full claims, then the rest?

No. Doing this will make it far easier for OMI to fake claim if they are scum.

Actually nvm, mafia know what column we are in and we don't.

[DragonEater70]

I think I was thinking about your posts earlier backwards but I think I get it now

Oh okay cool

[DragonEater70]

I think a JL needs to claim Ans state their target, nothing else

I understand why you say that, but if OMI fullclaims before the doc/jk does, we can catch him in a lie immediately (if he fake claims).

Vox, if you know what setup we're in, please help me explain this. Cause I might be thinking the same thing.

[DragonEater70]

If two people say to have PR, we'll hace two people townie 100%, I mean, We reduce the scum between 5 people.

Incorrect - assuming Column C Row 1/2 then I'm saying that scum would deliberately use this assumption and sneak in as the 'second PR' to be 'confirmed town' with us not realising there's only a solo cop/jailkeeper.

That's true, and the main reason I want OMI to fullclaim first.

[DragonEater70]

Guys, OMI is still (a bit) scummy despite being a claimed PR. Unless Salsa wants to claim PR right now, I think it's safest to say that OMI is the scummiest person to potentially claim PR.

I think the claiming order should be:
Salsa claiming PR/not PR
OMI fullclaiming
the rest claiming as we determine after OMI's claim.

[DragonEater70]

Mind you, I think Salsa is scummier than OMI, I just don't think it's likely they are going to claim PR. But they might.

[DragonEater70]

Jk either has a clear or a guilty, that's all. It's pretty good odds.

That sucks because if we lim the clear, we don't get any information. And if we decide not to risk it, we can leave the scum alive and think they are clear.

BTW, why are you sure there's a JK?

[DragonEater70]

I have PR, DragonEater70 has PR, what's the problem?

Wait what.
Can you please tell me who did the jailkeeper block?

[DragonEater70]

Fuck
what did I just post.
Kill me

[DragonEater70]

I misread what OMI said.

[DragonEater70]

OMI can you please fucking claim

[DragonEater70]

Actually ypu know what.

Can we just agree to all vote Salsa until they claim PR/not PR, then we all vote OMI until they claim?

Cause I'm tired of these mindgames and weird hints.

[DragonEater70]

Why should the other pr claim first in your opinion?

Correction: I did first a partial claimed, nobady else

@OMI, please full claim at your leisure.

It's no necessary

I disagree however, and you'll understand why when OMI fullclaims.

I will try to explain you carefully:

If two people say to have PR, we'll hace two people townie 100%, I mean, We reduce the scum between 5 people.
And de MOST IMPORTANT: without give full information to the scum.

It's very much is. If you are town and think that Salsa is scum, then from your viewpoint by fullclaiming you can prove you are town and we can win. You've got nothing to lose unless you are scum.

That's just plain false, since we can be in Column C.

[DragonEater70]

I have PR, DragonEater70 has PR, what's the problem?

Wait what.
Can you please tell me who did the jailkeeper block?

I don't know what are you talking about, but on D1 you said that you have PR without saying it. It's something obvious for the scum.

Omi do you ASSUME we’re not in column C or do you KNOW we’re not in column C? Look at the setup matrix carefully before answering.

Because ICE, Ice tell us to all that Mafia Rolecop exist.

I wanted to say i don't know what I'm talking about either, but that's not true :p.
However, your refusal to know what I'm talking about, while still claiming you know my role, is VERY scummy.
When did I claim PR?
And why are you refusing to claim?

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: OMI

[DragonEater70]

Can you please tell me who did the jailkeeper block?

DragonEater70 have PR, he give free information to the Scum all time.

The scum is not stupid.

Now we need to wait if somebody else say to have PR. We need to wait Salsabil Faria appear.

That's not fucking D1 and that's after you said I have a PR.
You are currently at the top of my scum list until you fullclaim + results/confirmation/whatever.

[DragonEater70]

You know what, let's start with role, why not.

[DragonEater70]

When did I claim PR?

All time on D1 without say directly. You are the typical townie newbie who want to know what PR the other person have

I hate you right now.

[DragonEater70]

Like aside from your alignment. That statement

hurt

.

[DragonEater70]

(at least not if OMNIGRON is what I think he is, a tracker)

Good!, I'm Town Tracker

Okay I know you are lying.
You said you don't know what I'm talking about when I literally asked you (in a hidden way) what's the result of your tracking investigation.
Explain this.

[DragonEater70]

Oooooh

Okay NOW dragons statements don’t make sense to me

Why did omi claim results ._.

Why did Omi vote salsabil

It's because Omi's fucking lying.

[DragonEater70]

What we are doing here is not what you all are just wrongly saying.

Okay please explain

[DragonEater70]

@Dragon Ya ya I think that too but that's why I want your claim to know for sure lol

But NK has this new gameshow idea called "Doctors and Vanillas" which I'm excited to find out more about.

Also excited.
I think hiwever that Salsa MUST play first, then NK,if we are doing this at all.

[DragonEater70]

Based on what I think is the gamestate Omi is probably the right vote either way

Care to elaborate?

[DragonEater70]

Okay if there's an FN I guess the person who the FN visited should claim being visited and not out the FN?

[DragonEater70]

You know what. I'm not saying anything else, until Salsa, NK, and OMI answer the questions/requests I made at them.
Vox do me a favor and don't scumread me for this. You of all people should know why I am doing this.

[DragonEater70]

You know what. I'm not saying anything else, until Salsa, NK, and OMI answer the questions/requests I made at them.
Vox do me a favor and don't scumread me for this. You of all people should know why I am doing this.

.

[DragonEater70]

Not claiming my group until Salsa and NK do.
and not saying anything at all until OMI answers my question.

[DragonEater70]

Not claiming my group until Salsa and NK do.
and not saying anything at all until OMI answers my question.

This is not necessary.

It very much is.
Your opposition to you or Salsa claiming your group first is exactly why nobody else should claim group before you do.

Also wtf was OMI's post about.

[DragonEater70]

Wait let me just make a multi reoly to OMI. This might take a while so be patient.

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

I have PR, DragonEater70 has PR, what's the problem?

Wait what.
Can you please tell me who did the jailkeeper block?

I don't know what are you talking about, but on D1 you said that you have PR without saying it. It's something obvious for the scum.

I tracked Salsabil Faria and the results was "visited no one"

Mr Scum:
Nice to meet you (Roden, Gamma Emerald, Salsabil Faria)

I want to resume what you already know:
- I'm Town Tracker
- DragonEater70 is Town Doctor
- You are Mafia Rolecop.

What will you do with this information in D2?

Bless you.
OMIGRON.

Without looking at any other person's posts or claims, does any of you see the glaring inconsistency that I see here? Am I stupid ir what?

[DragonEater70]

Thx for the claim NK, waiting on Salsa. Please be patient.

[DragonEater70]

Sorry, I don't know what popcorn means.

What I do know is that I said I won't claim anything until you and Salsa do, and I stand by my word. If you think that's scumny, I really don't know why but go for it.

[DragonEater70]

I think DragonEater70 has played well. You all are so hard with newbies.

also yeah he plays good, but he needs to claim and he's not

Thanks.

@Everyone
Okay I think I was right about wanting Salsa to claim group before OMI fullclaimed (imagine if scum!Salsa claimed PR and was then outed by OMI's tracking result), which it is now too late for, so fine, I agree that I should claim next.
BUT,
I still want OMI to answer my question before I claim, because I'm sure you all agree that his answer to this wouldn't actually give scum!Dragon any information, but my groupclaim might give scum!OMI information.

@OMI, could you please say where specifically you think that I claimed PR (on D1, not talking about D2)? And how does that settle with your theory, if we address the post that I made about your inconsistency? (post #1214)

[DragonEater70]

No. I’m collaborating but we’re popcorning so it goes to dragon first.

But DragonEater70 is newbie as me. You have to be patient and understand that DragonEater70 only wants to resolve the game himself. So, it's better if you demostrate to DragonEater70 that you can say what group you are without problems. For DragonEater70 is dificult to understand PopCorn metodologhy because that's new for him.

OMI please don't underestimate my abilities. It's not very hard for me to understand the methodology.
I didn't make my recent post yesterday because I went to sleep, but that's basically my response to the explanation of what's popcorning and why you guys would see my as scummy for refusong to claim next.

[DragonEater70]

? I don't see it. He thinks they no killed.

I'm.1

No killed AND didn’t use their pr

Sorry I don’t buy it, it’s inconsistent as fk

Also please address this, OMI.

[DragonEater70]

But only after you answer my first question in #1259 (two posts above)

[DragonEater70]

Sorry, I don't know what popcorn means. What I do know is that I said I won't claim anything until you and Salsa do, and I stand by my word. If you think that's scumny, I really don't know why but go for it.

Try to learn of Not Known 15 and AurorusVox , they are SE.

Try to understand the correct form to claim. The person who have PR have to say without say what PR have.

Actually it depends on the type of PR they have.
A Doctor or FN hides amongst the Vanilla Townies.
The others don't.

Why was wrong my idea who reveal PR the people who have it as a first step? I want to learn!

Well, you claimed Tracker.
A tracker is never alone in this semi-open setup. This means that there is at least one other person, who is a real PR. If that one is incompatible with you we need them to claim.
If it's Jailkeeper we need them to claim to tell us that you are not confirmed, which allows us to eliminate you Day 3 if you are suspect(It tells us that Mafia do not have a Rolecop, which is important info)
If it's anyone else we know you are confirmed and we don't out a PR who doesn't need to be outed at this stage.

If everyone just claims then we unnecessarily out a Doctor who can claim when there are 6 or 5 people left with one mafia remaining. That's the right time, not earlier...

I didn't really understand this part. If someone claims cop for instance, how does this confirm OMI?

[DragonEater70]

I still want OMI to answer my question before I claim, because I'm sure you all agree that his answer to this wouldn't actually give scum!Dragon any information, but my groupclaim might give scum!OMI information. @OMI, could you please say where specifically you think that I claimed PR (on D1, not talking about D2)? And how does that settle with your theory, if we address the post that I made about your inconsistency? (post #1214)

Sorry man, but I won't answer any question of you, before you colaborate with Not Known 15's methodology.

You need to understand that you can't resolve the game by only you. Remember that vainilla town deserve to have some information for they can resolve the game too.

You only see your point of view.

I already claimed! whereas You haven't say anything to the town people.

The order to say the STEP ONE in Not Known 15's methodology, pay atention to Known 15 here:

Not claiming my group until Salsa and NK do.
and not saying anything at all until OMI answers my question.

This is not necessary.

I invited you to learn of SE players to improve.

I am absolutely not trying to solve the gane by myself, but I am currently suspicious of you and don't want to give you information before you explain yourself. Why is that hard for you to grasp?
I'll claim whether your answer satisfies me or not, but at least I'll know if I should be suspicious of you.

[DragonEater70]

Furthermore, why is it hard for you to say where I apparently claimed?

[DragonEater70]

That shouldn't be incriminating, unless you are mafia.

[DragonEater70]

There’s nothing you can say that will give omi and edge. He has already full claimed. All you are doing is delaying now, which has more scum motivation than town motivation.

Are you worried that one of the unclaimed players is a pr? Are you waiting for us to do a Bella and jump the queue?

I initially believed you were probably town with a specific pr earlier this day, but the more you delay the less likely I find that scenario to be.

No, I don't want anyone to do a Bella. I was actually pretty sad that Bella did it because it wasn't supposed to happen.
I do think I may give OMI an edge if they are false claiming, but I might be just too paranoid because honestly I know with 90% certainty they aren't. I guess I'm just being too careful.
fine, I'll claim.
I'm in group 3. Should I also say my full role?

[DragonEater70]

And considering am in group 3, do you see what this says about OMI saying I'm a doctor?

[DragonEater70]

Honestly it's most likely OMI is town and miss-evaluated the data they had, but I was hoping to catch them in a slip IF they were scum.
I guess we can just lim Salsa (after both they and I fullclaim and you see why), and if they flip town we go for OMI (or me, we do have 2/3 miselims).

[DragonEater70]

Btw unless you guys want my role also (which I don't care about giving anyway), I believe it's Salsa's turn to claim their group.

[DragonEater70]

On the other hand. My dragon theory…

He was preparing to claim tracker on omi (hence his earlier suggestion that he had additional info on omi based on overnight actions) but this has been kyboshed by omi claiming tracker himself.

Waiting for another pr claim suits scum!dragon here so he knows if he claims pr who his 1v1 would be against - and that allows him to decide whether to go ahead and claim pr or VT.

Imo that’s why he’s pushing omi to reveal the pr soft claim from d1 - so he can deny it and claim vt if he needs to.

Hahaha this is such a funny theory.
I actually was thinking that OMI was the tracker D1 and I was telling them to track me so they can prove they are tracker D2.
But it didn't work out.

[DragonEater70]

Idk how would a scum even fake claim tracker on a claimed PR. I wouldn't even know who OMI acted on.

[DragonEater70]

I told them "OMI if you trust me you can prove you're PR overnight".
Apparently even though they trusted me, and claimed to know I was PR on D1, they didn't think to track me.

[DragonEater70]

I definitely don't think that OMI is a mason, in fact I even said earlier that I don't think we have masons in this game (my question at you was just a nonserious poke to see reaction than a real attempt to hunt masons). I actually meant that they can prove they are PR in another way, but I don't feel like I can say what it is since it might be detrimental to town as well.
However if OMI trusts me, then I'm sure they can figure it out overnight.

Here's the relevant post.

[DragonEater70]

Also dragon ffs depending on what you claim you could be confirmed town so just get on with it already

I already know I am confirmed town. I just want to possibly out OMI as scum but nobody listens so fine I claimed group 3 and will claim role if you guys want.

Just want to point out though that Salsa has apparently confirmed but never said anything.

[DragonEater70]

I was about to vote Vox for suggesting that trying to fogire things out is scummy, but pedits just saved me from this mistake. Okay wow.
Several things:
I get why you're saying that they could still be protected by doc/JK, but I don't fully understand how claiming prevents them from being protected?
Unless you mean that by potentially revealing that they are the the doc/JK then they are confirming to the mafia that they cannot be protected. That is indeed a concern.
I definitely don't think that OMI is a mason, in fact I even said earlier that I don't think we have masons in this game (my question at you was just a nonserious poke to see reaction than a real attempt to hunt masons). I actually meant that they can prove they are PR in another way, but I don't feel like I can say what it is since it might be detrimental to town as well.
However if OMI trusts me, then I'm sure they can figure it out overnight.

Ughhhhh see this is what I get for kinda tuning out the Dragon vs AV argument - this was a pretty big PR breadcrumb that I didn't spot.

Yep

[DragonEater70]

Oh yay Salsa is here!

[DragonEater70]

Fine.

Drums roll....

Jailkeeeeeeeper!

So yeah I'm conftown as hell.

[DragonEater70]

Well, I read 1200 and everything is confusing... didn't find time to read, btw I'm from group 1, that's all I will say atm..

Okay I kinda expected that.
Could you decide on another person to claim other than myself, OMI, NK and Bella (who have all claimed)?

[DragonEater70]

Btw VOTE: Salsa, at least until/unless anyone claims group 2/3.

[DragonEater70]

And your action list so far?

@NK, Vox, should I reveal?

[DragonEater70]

Btw I'm so sorry Salsa, you didn't deserve to get repaced into an almost decided game.

[DragonEater70]

Replaced*

[DragonEater70]

Now, if anyone can help me with the summary of what has happened so far... I still don't have time to read unfortunately...

Basically on D1 - there were some random clashes early on, including IcetFeelsPain accusing NK of being a rolecop, which some thought was a TMI scumslip.
We got OMIGRON to E-1, and he claimed town PR but didn't specify which.
We eliminated IcetFeelsPain and they flipped scum.
Note: the reason I suspect you is that your slot is the only one that didn't push IcetFeelsPain.

Then on D2 there was no kill, OMIGRON claimed Tracker and said they tracked you and you didn't visit anyone.
Then we started this intresting group claim thingy.

[DragonEater70]

And I claimed Jailkeeper just now.

[DragonEater70]

Btw I'm so sorry Salsa, you didn't deserve to get repaced into an almost decided game.

Overconfidence kills sweetheart..

Is this scummy or am I crazy?

[DragonEater70]

Now, if anyone can help me with the summary of what has happened so far... I still don't have time to read unfortunately...

Basically on D1 - there were some random clashes early on, including IcetFeelsPain accusing NK of being a rolecop, which some thought was a TMI scumslip.
We got OMIGRON to E-1, and he claimed town PR but didn't specify which.
We eliminated IcetFeelsPain and they flipped scum.
Note: the reason I suspect you is that your slot is the only one that didn't push IcetFeelsPain.

Then on D2 there was no kill, OMIGRON claimed Tracker and said they tracked you and you didn't visit anyone.
Then we started this intresting group claim thingy.

Ok, thank you for the summery..
Why do you think scum!me didn't kill anyone though?

I'll answer that when the rest claim.

[DragonEater70]

Btw I'm so sorry Salsa, you didn't deserve to get repaced into an almost decided game.

Overconfidence kills sweetheart..

Is this scummy or am I crazy?

No, it's scummy... you're not crazy...

Oh cool

[DragonEater70]

Btw Comet, I am just dying to know. What do you think of my strong posts in light of the fact that scum!me doesn't have an SE partner?

[DragonEater70]

Oh really.
that's funny.
Does anyone want to claim group 2?

[DragonEater70]

Wait now I have to ISO Roden to check something, BRB

[DragonEater70]

*Icet votes “the rolecop”
*Patch finds this suspicious and accidentally calls it “roleblocker”
*I ask NK for comment on this for my own reasons
*Patch defends himself by saying there’s no roleblocker in the setup
*I point out there is a possible roleblocker in the setup
*Patch says he’s not aware of the setup
*So how can he know there’s no roleblocker?
*And is it believable he wouldn’t know the setup matrix if he’s found icet’s posts suspicious for tmi?

I have an idea of how Patch could know there isn't a Roleblocker and still be town, but it would be anti-town to talk about it so I'll leave that alone for now.

I was sure Roden was breadcrumbing a tracker claim here (if they are tracker then they think Patch is FN), but now his slot has just softclaimed FN.

What. The. Hell?

[DragonEater70]

Okay now I really want the rest to claim group and then we scum hunt between the three of us.

[DragonEater70]

I'd rather Salsa claims night action first because if she does we might be able to find who is scum out of the three without any fuss.
But of course this might be only FMPOV, I didn't really bother looking at the possible advantage of me claiming first, because FMPOV it doesn't exist. If there is such an advantage please enlighten me.

[DragonEater70]

I mean I also claimed my full role before Salsa, it's only fair to have her claim NA before me.

And TBH I might be biased, being myself, but I think Salsa is scummier than me and should go first.

[DragonEater70]

I may and may not have any night action...

Depending on?
Also could you explicitly aay your role please?

[DragonEater70]

Dragon is only *not* confTown if he no killed I think?

Yes, you are right I believe?

[DragonEater70]

Welcome to the confTown club: me, comet, Bella, patch and NK.

Actually, with all that in mind…regardless of actions we have a guaranteed plan to win tomorrow.

We lim omi today

If omi is town:
* Dragon agrees to JK salsa
* Salsa agrees to friendly neighbour one of the confTown

* If salsa dies, we lim dragon
* In fact, if there is any kill at all, we lim dragon as we know it’s between him and salsa and salsa can’t kill

* Dragon doesn’t die because if they’re town they block salsa; if they’re scum they don’t NK themselves

* If there is no kill, but we get a friendly neighbour report, we lim dragon
* if there is no kill but we do not get a friendly neighbour report, we lim salsa

Guaranteed win tomorrow if we lim omi today

———

With claimed night actions we can probably get the victory today, but the above is a good backup plan

Okay there's one missed point in your plan, we should lim Salsa first.
Scum!Salsa is a roleblocker while scum!OMI is a rolecop. I can't block a roleblocker who's blocking me

[DragonEater70]

So the real plan is:
We lim Salsa. I JK OMI.
if anybody dies, we lim dragon. If nobody dues we lim OMI.

[DragonEater70]

Anyway let's get patch to claim group then whatsername to claim NA, then I will claim my own.

[DragonEater70]

I’m still convinced we can win today once we have night actions claimed

Probably.

[DragonEater70]

Just a quick and dirty flip-based readlist:

Scumflip:

Comet
Patch/Bella
NK
-
GE
-
Omi*
-
Dragon




Townflip:

Comet
-
Patch/Bella
-
NK/GE
Dragon
-
Omi*

*obviously omi read to be reviewed upon pr fullclaim tomorrow

Also proud that my top four townreads are now in the confTown club with me lol

Sorry dragon if you’re town, as it looks like you are

Yeah apology accepted. My role being what it is is probably half the reason for half my scummy behavior, I was just confident in my ability to self clear.

[DragonEater70]

I already have though?
I still want Salsa to say fullclaim including night action so we can out her as the scum she probably is. Or OMI is. We'll find out shortly.

[DragonEater70]

That's why I want fullclaims asap atm.

In this point doesn't matter who we need to lynch first, the result will be ever the same:
The Victory!

EBWOP: In this point doesn't matter who we need to execute first, the result will be ever the same:
The Victory!

we can fail two excutes and still win.

Wtf is going on here? Why did you use reverse tags?

[DragonEater70]

Also I want Patch to claim group. If they claim group 2, then technically Salsa is clear.

[DragonEater70]

There is still something that doesn’t make sense to me, Dragon.

You were convinced omi was lying about their claim/results. You also suggested you had gained info overnight relating to omi.

Will this make sense to me once you’ve claimed your target?

I think you can claim target at this point anyway dragon, it won’t make a difference to salsa being able to fakeclaim etc

No, I meant that OMI gained info overnight about me (because I wanted them to track me, which they sadly didn't).

[DragonEater70]

On the other hand. My dragon theory…

He was preparing to claim tracker on omi (hence his earlier suggestion that he had additional info on omi based on overnight actions) but this has been kyboshed by omi claiming tracker himself.

Waiting for another pr claim suits scum!dragon here so he knows if he claims pr who his 1v1 would be against - and that allows him to decide whether to go ahead and claim pr or VT.

Imo that’s why he’s pushing omi to reveal the pr soft claim from d1 - so he can deny it and claim vt if he needs to.

Hahaha this is such a funny theory.
I actually was thinking that OMI was the tracker D1 and I was telling them to track me so they can prove they are tracker D2.
But it didn't work out.

I told them "OMI if you trust me you can prove you're PR overnight".
Apparently even though they trusted me, and claimed to know I was PR on D1, they didn't think to track me.

I definitely don't think that OMI is a mason, in fact I even said earlier that I don't think we have masons in this game (my question at you was just a nonserious poke to see reaction than a real attempt to hunt masons). I actually meant that they can prove they are PR in another way, but I don't feel like I can say what it is since it might be detrimental to town as well.
However if OMI trusts me, then I'm sure they can figure it out overnight.

Here's the relevant post.

@NK

[DragonEater70]

Also if you ARE scum, hearing patch claim will help you decide who to fakeclaim targeting

Nope because I am going to claim one specific person.
If I claim someone else, OMI can call me out on it and you eliminate me.

[DragonEater70]

I disagree however, and you'll understand why when OMI fullclaims.

(at least not if OMNIGRON is what I think he is, a tracker)

Good!, I'm Town Tracker

Okay I know you are lying.
You said you don't know what I'm talking about when I literally asked you (in a hidden way) what's the result of your tracking investigation.
Explain this.

Oooooh

Okay NOW dragons statements don’t make sense to me

Why did omi claim results ._.

Why did Omi vote salsabil

It's because Omi's fucking lying.

@dragon I’m not talking about d1. This all made it seem like you had extra info based on overnight actions and interactions from today.

And omi can’t call you out on anything as they claim to have targeted someone that isn’t you?

Okay basically I was assuming (correctly, evidently) that OMI got my hint that I am the other PR. I was also assuming (incorrectly, evidently) that OMI decided to track me so they can confirm themselves as town (btw if they did we'd both be 100% confirmed right now).
So I asked OMI (don't remember the post number but it's sometime in D2, right after they say I'm the other PR) who did the jailkeeper target (aka who did I visit) and they said they have no idea.
This made no sense to me because I thought tracker!OMI + understanding_breadcrumb!OMI = tracking_dragon!OMI.
I hope these last 3 make sense.
Apparently though I thought wrong. Unless OMI was lying which is also why they claimed I was dr? IDK but I do tend to believe OMI overall.

[DragonEater70]

OMI can call me out but they won't because I am going to claim my actual target.

@Salsa, what's up? What's your full role and who did you target?

[DragonEater70]

AurorusVox: If some player is reemplaced and on the final their team win. Does the player win too?

I mean, If Salsabil Faria win, do Roden and Gamma Emerald win too?

No, Roden and GE are out of the game for good.

[DragonEater70]

This was before or after they’d claimed their target?

Them saying they don't know what I am talking about and me asking about it both happened before they claimed their target.

[DragonEater70]

The accusation of lying came after though?

Wait let me just check?
or better yet, you check so I don't have any way to lie about it if I'm scum.

[DragonEater70]

Oh okay I just checked.
Basically when OMI claimed their results I said they are lying because as I said, it didn't make sense to me that they wouldn't track me after already claiming to know my role?

But I guess there wasn't any inconsistency in what they said, I just reacted on an impulse.

[DragonEater70]

Yeah I did already check before I asked the question lol

Ooooh okay lol

[DragonEater70]

AurorusVox: If some player is reemplaced and on the final their team win. Does the player win too?

I mean, If Salsabil Faria win, do Roden and Gamma Emerald win too?

Roden??

You replaced Gamma Emerald who replaced Roden.

[DragonEater70]

Also since Salsa asked to be eliminated, let's eliminate her?

[DragonEater70]

It's interesting Salsa thinks I'm clear while NK thinks it should be a 1v1 between me and Salsa.

[DragonEater70]

Anyway I didn't have any extra information except ny own role, and the fact that OMI supposedly knew my role (though in the end they were wrong about me being a doctor).

[DragonEater70]

Can you claim now please

Agreed. Salsa, claim.

[DragonEater70]

Damn..
Umm
Are we allowed to ask the mods if they would allow someone not to act because the deadline is over when they join the game?
because seems a bit unfair to me.

[DragonEater70]

Okay so my target was Gamna Emerald (and not Salsa because I didn't even know who Salsa was).
I was really hoping salsa would claim to choosing someone, which would auto clear me.

[DragonEater70]

It’s kinda out of the realm of the game so probably not. Ideally the deadline would have been extended due to the replacement.

Yeah that's what I thought as well

[DragonEater70]

The reason OMI could call me out was that if I saod anything else OMI would know it doesn't make sense with their investigative report, and everyone else being cleared.

[DragonEater70]

Damn..
Umm
Are we allowed to ask the mods if they would allow someone not to act because the deadline is over when they join the game?
because seems a bit unfair to me.

It's not the mod's fault... I couldn't join earlier for rl issue...

Oh okay cool

[DragonEater70]

The reason OMI could call me out was that if I saod anything else OMI would know it doesn't make sense with their investigative report, and everyone else being cleared.

I don't really know how to explain it except by a huge wall of text, so just let the mathematicians (NK and AV) work it out in their heads.

[DragonEater70]

Is they really want to know. I mean it's not that important.

[DragonEater70]

I had time to submit night action but couldn't due to rl issue... hope it's clear now..

Yes it's clear.

[DragonEater70]

Scenario 1:
Omi/Dragon town
Salsa scum

Dragon JKs salsa and blocks her kill
Omi visits salsa = no visit (due to being JKd)

Scenario 2:
Dragon/salsa town
Omi scum

Dragon JKs salsa and protects them
Omi attacks salsa and their kill is blocked
Omi figures out salsa was jailkept and fakes a no visit track result

Scenario 3:
Omi/salsa town
Dragon scum

Omi tracks salsa but salsa doesn’t action
For some reason Dragon decides to no kill

These are my scenarios. I’m debating whether omi or salsa is likelier scum.

Omi because they weren’t playing like a tracker with the column business and the no visit result doesn’t stack with their vote on salsa. Also, scum can’t really sustain a friendly neighbour fakeclaim lol

Salsa because it would be very quick thinking for omi to fake the result of the tracker, which correlates to the actions of dragon. They’re also the one slot to not really push icet.

Dragon very unlikely because he’d have had to have neglected to use his night kill for some reason AND he’d have had to luck out on salsa not actioning. Still a possibility but unlikely.

I like your analysis. I would like to add that I see it very unlikely that OMI would decide to kill Salsa because even without role shenanigans, Salsa was the easiest person to blame as Icet's partner. Killing her would put OMI himself at the top of the elimination list, methinks.

Which is why I think Salsa is scum. I mean I even predicted there would be no death tonight because I thought they were scum. Like it's actually funny.

Also, Salsa admitted to being scummy in her reaction to when I told hee she replaced into a losing game (btw Salsa, I really hope this doesn't ruin your love of mafia or something), and she agreed to be limmed.

I think she's the safest choice for a perfect town victory.

[DragonEater70]

Vox, are you proud? You told me not to fuxk up the claim game. I don't think I did.

[DragonEater70]

Omi could have submitted a kill on salsa, plus rolecopped dragon and seen they were JK
Then realised dragon protected salsa since the rolecop went through (ie realised that dragon had not jailed omi)

That allows him to claim track - no visit on salsa

Some of his play is just wonky (like the column thing. I specifically said to carefully check the columns before answering and I’d hold him to his answer) and then assuming dragon was doctor, which completely undermines the vote on salsa

Yeah that theory is plausible, I guess.

[DragonEater70]

Based on how OMI reacted and that claiming here is a game-losing mistake for scum, and OMI already had claimed Day 1, we will eliminate Omi.
JK/FN also fits nicely with the rolecop scumslip(just like tracker + FN).

VOTE: OMIGRON

The only thing is eliminating Salsa 100% ensures victory by D3, whereas eliminating OMI could drag it out to D4.

But yeah I aslo noticed that scum!salsa shouldn't have claimed, but then they did appear to be under pressure.

Did anyone else notice the Roden breadcrumb for being tracker (or at east thinking that Patch is FN) though? I think this kinda undermines the possibility for his successor to be an FN

[DragonEater70]

Vox, are you proud? You told me not to fuxk up the claim game. I don't think I did.

I don't think you did. However, without a further claim we'd have had JK + tracker claim. I already thought about that scenario. Tell me: what'd you plan if everyone else had claimed VT?
My answer for the correct course of action is

Spoiler:

publicly announce a jailkeep target, omi also

tracks

that target, eliminate sasabil, then ask omi for results next day and eliminate omi(if possible)

Actually confused about the reasoning here, could you elaborate?

[DragonEater70]

Dragon I think at this point there’s no risk of it going to d4 unless you’re scum lol

If omi is town we lim salsa tomorrow anyway

Based on how OMI reacted and that claiming here is a game-losing mistake for scum, and OMI already had claimed Day 1, we will eliminate Omi.
JK/FN also fits nicely with the rolecop scumslip(just like tracker + FN).

VOTE: OMIGRON

The only thing is eliminating Salsa 100% ensures victory by D3, whereas eliminating OMI could drag it out to D4.

But yeah I aslo noticed that scum!salsa shouldn't have claimed, but then they did appear to be under pressure.

Did anyone else notice the Roden breadcrumb for being tracker (or at east thinking that Patch is FN) though? I think this kinda undermines the possibility for his successor to be an FN

We'd never lim you Day 3 if you aren't lying - sasa has to FN someone and if it fails or

fails

we just get Sasa. (Ofc, if sasa's FN is confirmed we lim you asap)

Yeah good point.

Yeah I think comet mentioned than earlier

Mentioned what?

[DragonEater70]

Go on omi, reveal your ace?

Put carefully attention: (It'll funny because it could generate discuss around that.)

MY ACE UP MY SLEEVE:

In my fisrt post I "quote" the first person who mentions the word "tracker"

That's really funny but also kinda looks like you olanned this together with Icet tbh.

[DragonEater70]

Vox, are you proud? You told me not to fuxk up the claim game. I don't think I did.

I don't think you did. However, without a further claim we'd have had JK + tracker claim. I already thought about that scenario. Tell me: what'd you plan if everyone else had claimed VT?
My answer for the correct course of action is

Spoiler:

publicly announce a jailkeep target, omi also

tracks

that target, eliminate sasabil, then ask omi for results next day and eliminate omi(if possible)

Actually confused about the reasoning here, could you elaborate?

If it’s just the two pr claims
Salsa is limmed as they were JKd = potential kill blocked

You both target the same person
This confirms them as not mafia if a kill goes through and stops either of you lying if you’re the scum

Why would a tracker track someone who is known to be blocked? They'd get the same result.

[DragonEater70]

Dragon I’m so glad you’re practically confTown lol wavelength bros ~~~~~

Man I love this.
sorry for being a bit toxic about you D1.

[DragonEater70]

If anything it just explains why icet posted so randomly at the start, to get the word tracker out there and let you or him fakeclaim it later if needed

Exactly

[DragonEater70]

Anyway I realized now that I probably misinterpreted the Roden breadcrumb (or Roden didn't think it through, or they were intentionally using misdirection), so yeah, together with the fact that claiming a third PR as scum is suicidal, I think there's actually more evidence in favor of FN!Salsa.

So let's gooo
VOTE: OMIGRON

[DragonEater70]

Oh and one more point OMI:

When did I claim PR?

All time on D1 without say directly. You are the typical townie newbie who want to know what PR the other person have

And you are the typical scum newbie who wants to kill one PR and investigate the other.

this is assuming Vox/NK theory of rolecopping me is true, which it might not be, at all

Also I am kinda tempted to just kill Salsa anyway jist bexause of my selfish reason of ensuring there's no chance I get roleblocked.

[DragonEater70]

Jailkeep salsa if it goes to night.

If anyone gets a FN result we know you’re scum
If no one gets an FN result we know he’s scum

No need for role blocking to enter into it

Okay waitttt
UNVOTE:

Sorry this is the second time I'm dramatically unvoting at E-1.
Leaving Salsa alive is not good.
Let's say OMI flips town. Salsa blocks me and kills Patch (as an example). The next day salsa claims they FN'd patch.
What gives? confusion.

[DragonEater70]

We HAVE to kill Salsa for a sure D3 Victory. Even if it means potentially sacrificing a D2 victory.

[DragonEater70]

We lim salsa anyway

Oh okay.

[DragonEater70]

NVM then, VOTE: OMI

Pedit: OMI ofc.

[DragonEater70]

If you jailkeep someone to protect them from being killed, and salsa agrees to FN that person, then we don’t end up in the scenario you described above

Unless that person dies... and then you all think I'm scum because I didn't protect them, meanwhile I was blocked.

But yeah we gonna lim Salsa anyway.

[DragonEater70]

BTW since there's no point in trying to block the roleblocker, might as well try to protect Vox.
@Salsa if game doesn't end you are scum FMPOV but you might as well pretend to target Vox.

[DragonEater70]

Okay I can wait six hours

I can't! in six hours it's like 1 AM!

[DragonEater70]

Comet why do you finish work so late????!

[DragonEater70]

Salsa here’s a quote for your signature

Which one?

[DragonEater70]

If you jailkeep someone to protect them from being killed, and salsa agrees to FN that person, then we don’t end up in the scenario you described above

Unless that person dies... and then you all think I'm scum because I didn't protect them, meanwhile I was blocked.

But yeah we gonna lim Salsa anyway.

Yeah, I've no problem either, though I think we are winning already by eliminating

OMIGRON

... but who do I &

DragonEater70

target? Like it's up to us or I missed something...

Vox

[DragonEater70]

Vox, are you proud? You told me not to fuxk up the claim game. I don't think I did.

I don't think you did. However, without a further claim we'd have had JK + tracker claim. I already thought about that scenario. Tell me: what'd you plan if everyone else had claimed VT?
My answer for the correct course of action is

Spoiler:

publicly announce a jailkeep target, omi also

tracks

that target, eliminate sasabil, then ask omi for results next day and eliminate omi(if possible)

Actually confused about the reasoning here, could you elaborate?

If it’s just the two pr claims
Salsa is limmed as they were JKd = potential kill blocked

You both target the same person
This confirms them as not mafia if a kill goes through and stops either of you lying if you’re the scum

Why would a tracker track someone who is known to be blocked? They'd get the same result.

If you are tracker and JK the last mafia is a Roleblocker. The Roleblocker could roleblock JK or tracker, but not both. If the mafia is targeted by JK and the roleblocker roleblocks JK roleblock is higher on the list and both the roleblock and the kill go through. Which means that the tracker sees the visits. If the tracker doesn't see something and the JK dies then the target wasn't Mafia because there's only one remaining.
If the tracker gets killed then the JK could have been roleblocked and there are no results, however the tracker is now confirmed town via nightkill and doesn't need to get eliminated.

Ohhhhh okay.

[DragonEater70]

Who am I hammering?

OMIGRON

[DragonEater70]

Btw OMI, what dies your name mean? Is it an acronym?

[DragonEater70]

Btw OMI, what dies your name mean? Is it an acronym?

Not really, in all the games I've played like "Call of Duty", "Chess" or whatever my nickname is: OMICRON.
But, unfortunately that nickname was occupied, so I had to use OMICRON instead.

Oh. I guess that's why half the people here call you Omicron.

[DragonEater70]

Dragon if it’s salsa then you’re essentially a vt at this point as she can just roleblock you so no point even considering protection (but still do it for fun)

And then salsa if it’s dragon then you don’t want dragon to know who you’re targeting as then he can just kill them to prevent you being confirmed

So don’t - I repeat do NOT - both target me.

Trust me I will do it for fun.

[DragonEater70]

I have a interesting question for all you:

Wicht phase do you thing is most important in mafia games? Day phase or Nigth phate

Day

[DragonEater70]

I mean I could also find a bunch of scummy things about the triple headed hydra if I wanted to to.

For instance, Riden's first post could be read as scum seeing that voting me was trendy and TR'y, and voting me to get TR'd.
And there's the post NK voted Riden for.
And there's GE not giving any real opnions at all.
And there's not submitting a night action (which btw I think GE could've submitted before replacement and it would count).
And there's Salsa admitting they are scummy when I said they are about to lose.

And on the ither hand there's OMI saying they don't know if we are in Column C, and voting Bella, and using Icet's weird posts as a breadcrumb.

Which di you feel outweigh the others?

Because OMI's slot is a newbie one and the triple headed slot is an SE slit and could be expected to get Townread mostly. I mean Vox you even doubted my townread on GE and said it didn't make any sense.

This is for Bella's, Comet's, and Patch's consideration.

I am not really going to unvote because it is a GG anyway and I'd rather win on D4 in 5 real life days than on D3 in 15 real life days.

[DragonEater70]

Yeah I feel like VT is sooo fun. I actually don't understand why people often play passively as VTs. You have to be aggressive and use your vanilla-ness as a defence for your power roles.

However this has 0 bearing on the game at hand.

[DragonEater70]

I am just taking this beautiful spot so Bella's/Comet's/Patch's next post (which is hopefullya hammer vote) takes the top of the next page.
because I do be like that.

I enjoy fluff too much

Also while we're at the topic of fluff, I'm so glad Comet ended up being conftown which means I can resume saying Avalon is soooo freaking fun and holy shit playing these games at school was a real highlight.
Also @ Comet, please explain your schedule. Do you actually get back home at 23:00? Because that kinda sucks.

Any other fluff topics you guys want to discuss?

[DragonEater70]

Noooooo wrong post number

[DragonEater70]

I stole the top of the page post

I'm really night started before I could respond to this.

Anyways, VOTE: Salsa
there's no need for Salsa to say who they targeted because if we just go player by player and ask them if they got an FN report, it will be very easily seen that she hasn't targeted anyone except me with her roleblock and AV with her nightkill.

[DragonEater70]

EBWOP: I'm really upset*
Also my response would have been to say that AV is now the scummiest person on my readlist, but as a joke.

[DragonEater70]

I'm pretty sure Comet and NK not saying they got an FN result is indicative of them not getting one.
so they should just wait for Bella to confirm she hasn't gotten a resuot and we can exe Salsa.

[DragonEater70]

If someone confirms the friendly neighbour thing then execute Dragon. If Salsa didn't do the action or she says she targeted AV with it then we execute her. If she flips town and it's scum!Dragon then we flip Dragon tomorrow.

Dragon if you are scum can you leave me alive? I was the first person to do a proper wagon against you and it'd be poetic for me to lead the last one against you - wouldn't it?

I am not scum but if I were, I totally got you.

[DragonEater70]

No, nothing. I just want to execute salsa

You more than welcome to vote