Newbie 1089: GAME OVER

[Jora]

Hi!

1. I'm a good guy. Trust me. I have a hobby of saving town-asses.
2. In my wiki.
3. Who tell you that?
4. I'm serious. How do you know it?
5. One.
6. Yes. I wanted to choose 3, but all we know that you are scum if you pick it. Relax, Trumpet of Doom, I'm kidding.

@ Thian. Let me worn you. I love power posting. There is nothing I can do with it.

@ Trumpet of Doom. I disagree with most of your tesises. "If you're town and claim scum, you're just stupid." Isn't it just boring to claim all-the-way town, or why it isn't equally stupid to beat yourself in chest and yell "Imma town!"? I'd rather call it trolling, but not stupid. However I don't appreciate a trolling. "Don't lie as town." & "Never fakeclaim as town." In general - yes, but sometimes it do good.
All about your points in "Don't self-vote" simply are not true. All my objections are based on real game expirience, so don't bother to correct me.

@ Kiari Youre a girl, right?

@ Somebody. Will you make me use my favourite latin citation this time? I bet you do.

VOTE: McGriddle

[Jora]

Links or it didn't happen.

Very bright recent example: lying and fake claiming makes a profit (sadly most of the towns was idiots this time): Newbie 1077: townie Mr.Orange claiming Cop and cought bouth scums.

Self vote makes a profit: Newbie 1068 , my last game. Wingdamage selfvoting and gets stupid votes out of him. Actually the trick is that no one pro-town is interested in quick lynch, therefore they likely remove their votes and rethink thinghs. At least one vote will be removed and redirected, since one is occupied by selfvoter himself. Also most of the people feels uncomfortable to helf suicide. Obviously it will not work in our game after I have explained it.

[Jora]

/\
|
First phrase supposed to be in a quote tag.

[Jora]

No direct aswer is correct. It's all wifom from certain point. If you didn't found answers in my examlpe, well then consider me being wrong. Conversation is over.

[Jora]

@ Mod: Why my vote is not cool? Me wants an arrow and a bolded text in vote counter like the others! Or will it become cool after this Sigma's vote?

[Jora]

@ I Am Innocent. Are you Catholic or Protestant?

[Jora]

@ SigmaEXE003 Are you Judaist or Hinduist or Buddhist or Islamist or one of those creepy Hare Krishnas? May be the Children of the Atom?
[\quote="Sigma"]A random thing that bothered me was }|{opa's question of I am Innocent as to whether he was Catholic or Protestant.[quote]
Elementary, My Dear Sigma.
You see, most of them do not "going to _church_". Thats why I supposed I'mInno is Christian. And guess what branches of Christianity are dominant in the place where I'mInno is supposedly located?

@ I Am Innocent Baptist?

[Jora]

Jora it's me. I'm from Kazakhstan and live in Russia, so English is my third language, actually. At this moment I don't know much, I prefer to stay with my RV for little longer.







....


But... Kiari seducing me to vote...

VOTE: RICO ACT

Let him be with his family! Hamma, please.

[Jora]

This is not a "damn good reason." This looks to me like an RVS reason and trying to pass off responsibility for what I can only assume was intended as a serious vote. If you have a more serious reason (like one based on something he did) for why you put Rico at L-1, I request that you give it;

Did I said that it was a good reason? No. So, your assumption is wrong. Like I said I don't have any strong opinions yet. Since I see no difference whom to RV, why not to help a guy whose family needs him more than we need him here. Besides, I really dislike such kind of an excuses like he did. Usually it's a bad sign.

P.S. Also, putting someone to L-1 with RVS is funny. I surprised that you the only one who FoSed me and no one voted me so far.

[Jora]

Why did you do it though? Especially after what I said about NOT doing it without a good reason?

I haв to do it. Especially after what you said. Spank my naughty ass!

[Jora]

Activity forum!

@ McGriddle, I see you are mediexperienced player. What does it stand for "Wins/Losses - 99/15" in your sig? Your wiki says all hat, no cattle! Hundred wins, hmm, big talk much?

[Jora]

Scum listing/Anti Town ((I wouldn't mind lynching the following players, it will

increase chances of

people

who will be active towards endgame))
OPA
Kiari
Mcgriddle

Wow, woa, objection! It's kind of rush conclusion. It's only a week of a game. And the way you said it is pretty suspicious. I have a feeling that both scums are active.

FoS: Thian

.

[Jora]

@ Thian You're most annoying IC I've ever seen. Your speech:

I've also started seeing a trend on what helps town a lot in these games, is if you can think about the potential of an end game. Who you do want or would want with you in an end game situation where it is possibly Lynch or Lose. The more inactives you bring along to the end game, it hurts your chances, the people who are not assisting town as well can ultimately lead to a demise, active lurking, or distracting town. It isn't a sure fire way to get scum, but it does improve your chances if you can objectively look at peoples posts and ask yourself, does this help, or hurt town, and if you feel it does hurt town, then you might as well question it and get clarity of where someone was going on with their train of thought.

is wrong. Why you bring this Nazi Pro-Policy Lynch Agitation? IMO it have nothing with IC-guidance, because it's simply bad. Also, it's bit to early, anyways.
OMG! New post. You just keep annoying me.

Stop, please.

Let the game breathe.

@ RICO ACT Why you said that your family member died?

The "do not lie" rule should not be applied to real life! Just you could have said like your family member recovered.

For God's sake, you should not have mentioned this whole matter at the first place! I don't like you regardless of your game alliance. And even more so - in my games it was only scums who maked things like that. Just saying.

@ Trumpet of Doom Why are you asking for three scumreads? Afair we have only two scums in the game. And patience, my dear, I'll tell my reads soon.
And, I revoke my FoS from Thian. He was creepy, and I've been angry. But on second thought I've realized that it rather town-read.

[Jora]

@ Thian Ok, I know it's impossible for you to stop. But could you at least slow down?

[Jora]

I have done a bit of research here into other games and it seems RICO ACT has indeed said the same thing in each of his games that he is playing, so I doubt he is making it up, which is what you seem to be implying, opa.

I'm not saying RICO ACT was faking nor that he is scum. My point is that he doesn't have to tell us such a things. Because... Why don't you get it? Are you, American people, always tell others, the strangers from the internet, the people whom you do not really know about things like that, about your family affairs, losses? If so, well then... Think of me as of very sensitive and good-natured person. RICO ACT makes me feel bad when telling me sad things.
I do not afraid of Thian. I decided that he has a pro-town alignment because when at early game I am sick of someone it means that someone is town.

@ Thian All people are posting, right? Somebody less, but not very abusive. Your advice is out of place.
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=16935

[Jora]

Yeah! Gooood.

@SigmaEXE003 Yes, I hate Hare Krishnas (mainly because my brother is the one). Why so Butthurt? You were saying you are a Christian.

And the rest of the post was just wrong, since RICO's family matters

were slightly relevant

.

How does any relevant? I guess you live in America, buddy.

@Thian Well, you are wrong, because it's too early to launch lynch-all-lurkers programm and you wrong because Polycy lynches is wrong.

@Vino "let's lynch Player X, because he's useless even when he's town," =

I wouldn't mind lynching the following players, it will increase chances of people who will be active towards endgame

Who you do want or would want with you in an end game situation

Also I have to comment on this:

The more inactives you bring along to the end game, it hurts your chances, the people who are not assisting town as well can ultimately lead to a demise, active lurking, or distracting town.

I do see only RICO is lurking and see how Thian havily distracting town. I do not see how his advices are necessary or relevant. So, why do you, Thian, SigmaEXE003 and Vino criticizing Kiari for her vote?

That post was nothing but complaining about stupid questions and complaining about small things that bother you about Thian

You want to learn? Don't look at our IC. He demoncstrates particularly bad play. Lesson #1: this game is all about stupid questions, small things and flames.

I just can't help think you're trying so hard to draw our attention to the last game where you acted the same as now and got lynched incorrectly, possibly in a hope to save yourself from being lynched again now. This looks scummy.

Nope. This looks town to me. She associating her play with her last game. This prolongation is more likely if she has the same role.

[Jora]

Good work with finding words, Vino The Hairsplitter. But it's not a contracitory. 1st - I've FoSed Thian for distracting town. But then I've realized that he doing it with too much fanatism so probably he do not understands what does he doing. He went blind because of his first time at being IC. What I meant to say, this is his own words:

The more inactives you bring along to the end game, it hurts your chances, the people who are not assisting town as well can ultimately lead to a demise, active lurking, or distracting town.

On the separate note: Did you ever been mafia in forum-based game?

[Jora]

SigmaEXE003, no offense meant. Love. It saddens me that you tolerate International Society for Krishna Consciousness as a religion, it actually is a dangerous sect. So, take a hug or replace out. But seriously if you can't stand it I will not push it.

[Jora]

I'll say this here and now: If you're town, you should have no reason to be worried about giving three scumreads instead of only two.

But I am. I won't tell you my 3 suspects.

Finally, I have some reads. But tell them later (need some sleep atm).

[Jora]

My reads so far.
The list of people I don't want to see being lynched today:
Kiari - gut read.
I Am Innocent - I like to read his posts, and I believe he is town.
Also, I think Thian is town. But I don't mind if somebody will accidentally make him silenced.

Vino - I have a mixed impression. Need more read.
RICO ACT - null slot (on it's own, only his bandwagon connections are making him scummy).
SigmaEXE003 - newb defence. He is all like "you're more experienced than I am, so you may have your reasons". But it's very clever move for a newb scum. I'll be surprised if he flips scum.
McGriddle - "Blah, blah, I'm bad at D1." But who does not? Lack of info it's objective reality of D1. So you just proposing not to look at you untill D1 ends? It seems very comfortable for a scum, isn't it?

Scum:
Trumpet of Doom In his post #0 he maked emphasis only for one point:"never,

ever

,

ever

name your scumpartner". Later when he was asked he tells about his scum experience. Then he makes a comparison of his scum play to "these two games in which he was town". He voted for RICO ACT, and he was the first one who found him guilty. Now, my dear reader, think of ToD & RICO scumteam. Everything falls into place. Imo RiCO did not confirmed at time, and this means he did not met his partner in a pre-game quick topic. ToD saw RICO being a burden to him, and he decided that he will eventually fall. So he maked a fake scum read on him as soon as he placed a post.
Also, I don't like ToD's "3-suspects thing", in my last game one of mafias (RayFrost) has been useing very similar strange shit on D1 (he called it reaction-hunting, but that's was a crap).

VOTE: Trumpet of Doom

@ Trumpet of Doom

So ToD, (...) Who do you think has been the least helpful to town up to this point, besides of course RICO?

Probably Jora, or maybe McGriddle.

I would like to hear Trumpet's Top 2 Scum Suspects as of Post 171.

Rico and Jora (probably), in that order.

What makes you more suspicious of me than of McGriddle?

[Jora]

Hmm, found it. I admit, my "emphasis" point was a mistake and it does not mean any scum-buddy-coaching things.
Proof link for the truth (just for saving everybody's time sake): http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p2040657

And these things are scummy... why, exactly? (Hint: They're not.)

You associating your current play with your previous fails at being scum. Looks pretty scummy to me.

Yet another thing that I'm terrible hate in your play is using the WIFOM word in defence.

I'm not sure anyone else would have noticed what I pointed out if I hadn't brought it up.

It is the objective reason of your scummness. Those thing about RICO wasn't so scummy to be noticed by townie, and you admit it.

[Jora]

Probably I'm not good at reasoning. You can and probably will deflect my further acusations just saying that i'm budding to I am Innocent. But you relly bad at playing scum.
My illiterate ass says: die!

[Jora]

}|{opa: Fairly scummy. I don't like his L-1 vote on RICO, and not many of his posts are game-related.

Blah, that was fairly predictable. You just repeated others words about my lack of "game-related" posting. You don't even bothered to check is this really so. Yes, I have some directly non related game post about religion, but still I have more game-related posts than many of other participants. Besides, my religion holy war brings me a fair town feeling about Sigma. Shut up, scum little puppet.

[Jora]

}|{opa: Fairly scummy. I don't like his L-1 vote on RICO, and not many of his posts are game-related. Opa, were you deliberately trying to antagonise anyone?

VOTE: }|{oba

(...) I work under the assumption that scum are smart

So, you voting me because I'm an idiot? And think that scums are smart?

[Jora]

@Everyone (well, mainly Trumpet and opa): Do you believe that RICO's posts are definitive indication of scum? (Just trying to figure out how seriously I need to take this.)

RICO ACT - null slot (on it's own

Yet another evidence of your hypocrisy.

[Jora]

Btw, Supreme Underload, thanks for making things that obvoius. Well, I was thinking about what if I'm wrong with ToD being scum and guess what? I found this post by The Riddle of Mc G. At that moment he was still voting ToD, and he said just like "nice work, you dirty town, my school!", then he did not unvote ToD nor vote RICO. So if his partner RICO will fall in future he can naturally hammer him with words like: "just as I told you, guys", but in fact McG not very happy with losing RICO.

This slot is a key to both ToD&RICO and McG&RICO theories. And more so he is scummy as hell since being Supreme Overlord.
VOTE: Supreme Overlord

@ SO: Could you please explain your comment about Vino doing self-something. And why do you mentioned all these people: "brother, ICEninja, SpyreX, Alex Steiner, RayFrost"?

[Jora]

Another interesting thing is McG actually much more involved in another ongoing D1 game. He's lurking just for this one.

[Jora]

Also sigma, All it is, is me telling opa to be careful with calling people town and who people should kill or silence. It is bad for town and it will allow them to be framed going into the next day. I had done that to spark conversation in one game ((on a different sight)) that person got killed, and I was framed the next day and then killed off. It is dangerous to lead scum.

Also, I got it. Also, I don't really think they would kill you, anyways.

It seems to me that your vote is based more on theory than on scummy actions.

Perhaps I spent three posts complaining about SO's scummy actions.

All of his posts on page 8 feel like thinly-disguised OMGUS, except for the bits about McG.

Yes, it may look like OMGUS, however it is not. In addition of what i mentioned, I strongly dislike his comments on other players. Most of them does not make sence for me. Brightest example: I do not see how Vino91 is fairly townish and why self-aware-something do him a fiar town. Besides, look at his list (in short version):

I Am Innocent:

Leaning town.

Kiari:

Leaning scum.

McGriddle:

Fairly null

SigmaEXE003:

Fairly null

Thian:

Leaning town.

Trumpt of Doom:

Farily townish.

Vino91:

Fairly townish.

}|{opa:

Fairly scummy.

All traits are in pairs. Coincedence or clever disguise? So whoever is his partner we know for sure that he likely has a pro-town prime pair from this list.
Also, his list is alphabetic ordered, so he maked a notes while cathing, but for some reason he missed a lot of my posts - therefore he only skimming the thread before making a "serious" vote, therefore he is scum.

[Jora]

Personally, if I was scum, I would find the task of going it alone with 7 other players remaining extremely daunting and would do my best to keep my partner around. I think this theory is a push.

The reality goes againt you at this point. In fact, sooner or later one of mafias very likely will be detected anyways, so heavy distancing can cover the expenses when things go LyLo.

I'm voting you because quite a few (not all) of your posts are distracting from the game.

Are you kidding meh? Distracting from what? From early D1 spitballing? Why are you not consider then Thian for distracting town?

So, you're attack on me now is pureply for my own actions?

What means now? Did I attack you before?

Alphabetical because I went through using ISO. My initial reads are going to be skims as a necessity; I'll be catching up fully over the next few days, but I wanted to get something out there for you to use.

(...) I judged that opa was far enough away from a lynch that I could vote him (my best pick from readover) without danger.

For fuck's sake, why did you posted without finishing analysis first? Thanks, I don't need "something" for sake of something from you. Sadly, it's typical town-replacement's mistake. Scum-replacement does it too, but they usually does not admit it so easy.
UNVOTE:

I'd rather not contaminate the potential data pool any more than I absolutely have to. (...)

Wrong answer. Die you piece of liar!
VOTE: Trumpet of Doom

[Jora]

Thian was distracting. Search better, you can't miss it.

In your ISO#7, when you took RICO to L-1, were you expecting a hammer? Would you have condoned a hammer?

Not really, my vote was sort of "second" random. Just for teh lulz. Why not? RVS is stupid anyways. But if somehow RICO had been hammered I would not be upset.
What does this word stand for: "condoned"? I don't know it. My clues... Condoleezza Rice, Condom... Any hits?

some players may have wanted something from my slot ASAP.

Nobody'll say nothing if you would postpone your analisis. Take your time, don't worry. Hasty conclusions harm town way bigger. I've spent so much time reading your reads just for nothing.

I see nothing unreasonable about Trumpet's request to leave it after a scum flip

What if Trumpet is a scum himself? He dodge an answer about his "method" for a fourth (?) time constantly lying. No one method is worth it no matter how wounderful it is.

[Jora]

The voting and actions of opa are confusing the hell out of me at the moment.. don't know what to make of them.

What a heck! You already had voted me, so does it mean like you considering to unvote? Or you said it just to make me look more scummy or something?

[Jora]

What is your understanding of "being scummy"?

[Jora]

By "early" I mean D1. My first game as scum I made the mistake of going after lurkers D1. They are so tempting for scum though, you know, lurkers tend not to fight back as hard.

+1 Excellent example. Scum at his first posts had said "I will attempt to lynch however has contributed the least to the discussion. I will do this no matter if anyone agrees or not." just like that. Then he realized that towns are comlete idiots, so he allowed them to lynch me which resulted in easy scum win.

[Jora]

1. You're leaving out the first part of the statement you quoted: "If I don't find anyone scummy at the end of the day..." And later that Day, he was posting that he thought you were scum. (Frankly, I think I would have agreed.)

WFT? Scum can find anyone he wants to be scummy and vote. Piont is - he stated his legit right to vote lurkers

2. It was a 2v5 setup. Those are scum-sided to begin with. All you were doing was making their job easier.

2Scums vs (2PR+3VT). Actually what I've proposed was a massclaim and that was good in this situation. (Cop should claim as miller too.)

Additionally, you're painting your lynch as the reason town lost?

No - reason is they were idiots. For example Thor665's posts form very begining was archi-idiotic and no one town except me was saying nothing. My lynch and town lose is just consequences.

That carries strong implications of "I'm godawesome and you should all listen to me." I have very little respect for people who post things like that, because I read it as them thinking they're God's gift to scumhunters, when the opposite is much more likely to be true.

Fuck off. I've failed to find scums in Open 248 and admit it. I've playing this game since 2005 and never ever said nothing like you trying to misrep, so fuck off again.

(This

(not this)

applies to you too, Kiari.) Even Glork, who's earned the title "Burdened by Proficiency" and is seen as one of the best scumhunters on site, screws up occasionally.

And again.

FTR, I would be completely fine with a Jora lynch, since I don't think I'm getting an SO lynch today.

And now Thian's raised the possibility of IAI-scum.

Vino had risen it before.

I'll have to take a look at IAI's iso to see if I agree/see other scummy things in it. I owe this game a reread, and I'm not sure when that's going to happen, but I will try to stay on top of the present

O RLY?

in this game.

[Jora]

}|{opa has 39% content posts and 61% useless posts.

Links or stfu.

[Jora]

@ Sotty7

Sorry for using f word a couple of times, feel free to replace me if you fell me being rude and sound offensive.

the opposite is much more likely to be true.

However, I considering this ^^^ as an insult. Can't imagine nothing worse. Fell free to send me to hell and f* myself - I will remain calm, but when somebody posting two links with such an offensive content it drives me crazy.

[Jora]

^^^
Typical townie Village Idiot. It seems I was right about my gut read on Kiari.

What is your understanding of "being scummy"?

My understanding of "being scummy" is when you're the mafia. However, I do not know for a fact that you are mafia, so my suspicions and vote are based on the fact that you often seem more intent on distracting the town with non-content based posts and views, rather than scum hunting. I was also very suspicious of the way you FOS'ed Thian and then very quickly withdrew it. Thian has arguably been the most confrontational player in this game and I got the feeling you were trying to protect yourself from the attack that you thought he would bring upon you if you continued to pressurize him, which indicates to me that you have something to hide.

Ok, if that what I doing was just a distruction to you - fine. But I get very much info from my it. And this is what scumhunting is. I see you only looking at others actions statisticly, without finding any reasons for these actions. And that I see in all of your posts. Yes, I've FOS'ed Thian and then very quickly withdrew it, and what? You had alredy mentioned it before. Thian are not the most confrontational player in this game for sure. His IC play was terrific and that's the reason I've FoSed him. And only after when I've analized his meta, I undersatd how he doing it as TOWN. Why I should been keeping my FoS on the player whom I consider as town no matter if I recently voted or FoSed him? I've nothing to hide.
And I don't see how this

@ Thian You're most annoying IC I've ever seen. Your speech: (...)
is wrong. Why you bring this Nazi Pro-Policy Lynch Agitation? IMO it have nothing with IC-guidance, because it's simply bad. Also, it's bit to early, anyways.
OMG! New post. You just keep annoying me.

Stop, please.

Let the game breathe.

Can protect myself from the Thian attention no matter do I unFoSed (this is don't even unvoting!) him in this post or not. Don't be silly.
Oh, wait your silliness constantly repeating. All your post are very the same. That's scummy.

FoS Vino91

[Jora]

Thian are not the most confrontational player in this game for sure.

If not Thian, then who do you think has been most confrontational?

In begining lets define what are you calling to be confrontational. IMO Thian was just noisy, without hitting hard anyone. Scums would never confronted with him. Or he's scum himself. Atm I think that first is more likely.

Oh, wait your silliness constantly repeating. All your post are very the same. That's scummy.

Are you accusing me of being scummy due to my posts being consistent?

Consistent?! It is synonym to logical btw. Ah, nevermind. Atm (I've done some re-reading), I like 80% sure you are town. I should never FoSing when annoyed.

Posts 111, 140, 175, 178, 187 and 190 are what I would classify as content.
Posts 50, 61, 67, 80, 83, 117, 123, 143, 148, 172 and 180 are what I would classify as useless.
That's out of the first 200 posts, after the RVS. I see I've done my numbers slightly wrong; it's 35% content, 65% useless.

So, you had not been appropriately read the thread at first time. And thats how you spent your time? Counting shitty posts? Even me is too lazy to check it.
Btw, are you really count post #117 where I've questioned ToD about "3 scumreads" thing and unFoSed Thian and called him annoying but townish as useless?
I'm kidding. I don't give shit about what you're counting. You wrong anyways. Just keep it with yourself. I don't see how your magic counter helps to identify a scum. It only distracts town.

Why 'Townie' VI; especially when I did a similar thing (although I'd like to think I had more reasoning) you said:

Village Idiot: "Townie VIs are sometimes used as convenient scapegoats by Mafia, who will build a case around the stupid things the VI says as a case for lynching him or her. The other Townies are sometimes easily duped into such a lynch."
You are not VI (congrats!). But you persistently falling into mafia-replacement category in my eyes.

I think I might be ready to switch to the Kiari/sanchocolates slot; I'll give it a readover and see if I can come up with a case.

Oh, scum found easy lynch.
Wait? What about me?! You had counted all those useless posts for nothing?

@Supreme Overlord It's 5 days till the deadline. Oh, how opportune. And a smile at the end of sentence

@ Trumpet of Doom I believe you have nothing to tell us and just fogging that simple truth.
P.S. Yes, I think you're scum. And you had insulted me. No hard feelings.


Town, lets lynch some scum. Trumpet of Doom vs Supreme Overlord competing wagons FTW!

[Jora]

Implied that you wanted some kind of evidence to prove that I was paying attention to the thread, and that 'distracting' and 'useless' weren't just vague accusations.

Ha-ha. I wanted just an evidence that you're scum. And you were trying hard to bring it.

If you're going to try to defend yourself by saying that you haven't been distracting/others have been more so, what else am I to do but to show you the posts that indicate to me that it's true?

Ha-ha. I can say that all your posts (100%) are distructing. Because you calling my RVS posts and even analisis (i.e.#117) distructing.

Why do you think it is a playstyle more likely to come from town? Why would newbie, replacing-in scum not make that same mistake?

Short: real game expirience. Long: well they have a partner, and before post their often read at least a little before posting... ect.

I can't justify switching my vote from }|{opa this close to deadline. He's currently the vote leader at L-2, so I think my vote will best serve there. If you haven't lynched by the time I get back, it would probably take a lot for me to vote anyone other than sanchocolates.

Yep, thats how stupid misslynches always happen. It's 7 days before deadline! Every bandwagon can be formed from 0. Every scum can get what their deserved. Don't let this scum fool you.

[Jora]

*real game expirience
Hmm... It will not work here. Before I came here I've played in a small (50-100 players) mafia community. Therefore, i've used to play with veterans or at least with semi-exp players. But this slot is newb-newb (this does not mean the dumb-dumb however), and he is 14 y.o. So... I take my words back, sorry. But, my gut read on Kairi remains still.

[Jora]

PS - Be very careful of convenient evidence. Here is some from my meta in a game (newbie 1033) where we had to confirm in thread, and once the 7th person confirmed, game started. And note that scum were allowed to talk pregame until the 7th confirmation:

PS Veridis was scum, Charlie was not. Sorry Charlie!

Fine example (how did you saw confirmations with per-minute accuracy, btw?), but I don't see why you mentioned it. What sort of "convenient evidence" (from Thian i suppose?) did you mean?
This: "your line of questioning fits perfectly into ONE game I have played"? Just don't think it somehow convenient. Self-convinience may be, but it totally subjective.

Your reasons of voting ToD are great, I really like the way you're thinking. I think ToD is definitely 99% scum. What is your opinion on my #2 suspect - SO? I'm asking, because I'm not so sure in my own case on him (annoyance is bad for clear thinking).

@Vino: Whom do you suspect more and why: Thian or IAI? Do you still think of ToD being town. (Afair he is 5-7 in your scum list which equals to 2-4 in town list, right?)

[Jora]

he is 14 y.o.

Ouch! I've done some research lately and found that sanchocolates is under the age of 13.

@ Random Question of the day: All Imagine if you cheated (i. e. was doing random stuff and somehow) got the name of scum, would you try to make a case or would you tell the mod and replace out insted?

[Jora]

I fogot about psycological part of the game. Now it's time to apply my knowledge. Hey, town, look here:

Probably I'm not good at reasoning. You can and probably will deflect my further acusations just saying that i'm budding to I am Innocent. But you really bad at playing scum.
My illiterate ass says: die!

All you were doing was making their job easier.
Additionally, you're painting your lynch as the reason town lost? That carries strong implications of "I'm godawesome and you should all listen to me." I have very little respect for people who post things like that, because I read it as them thinking they're God's gift to scumhunters, when the opposite is much more likely to be true. (This applies to you too, Kiari.) Even Glork, who's earned the title "Burdened by Proficiency" and is seen as one of the best scumhunters on site, screws up occasionally.

FTR, I would be completely fine with a Jora lynch, since I don't think I'm getting an SO lynch today.

And now Thian's raised the possibility of IAI-scum. I'll have to take a look at IAI's iso to see if I agree/see other scummy things in it. I owe this game a reread, and I'm not sure when that's going to happen, but I will try to stay on top of the present in this game.

That's called

the symmetrical reaction

. Me in #180: "you're bad at being scum." He is offended and angry, he ignoring me ( #182 ). And only later in #227 he finally lost his patience, "you're bad at being town." - he said in very offensive manner. He was trying hard to hurt me. Yes, scum would never say that he is scum, but his subconsciousness failed him. He overdid with all those links.

[Jora]

McGriddle - "Blah, blah, I'm bad at D1." But who does not? Lack of info it's objective reality of D1. So you just proposing not to look at you untill D1 ends? It seems very comfortable for a scum, isn't it?

I suppose so yes, but I am not making any excuses,

hell if you think I am scummy, vote me, it would be a mistake

, but if you feel so strongly about me being scummy on day 1 then

I don't want to be stuck on day 3 with you

where a mistake could be even more detrimental. I mean it's really to each his own, but there are far more scummy players than myself in this game right now as

I will mention in a post tonight.

I will give you my all

this evening

, which is more than I can say I have done on a Day 1 in a long time.

I really hate all underlined parts of it. 1st he said it in a weird way "if you think I am

scummy

scum" <- thats how it should be spelled. Then he actually started accusing me of willing to make a mistake (yes, yes, he said a "mistake" - lol) and said that he want me being lynched this day just for that.
And God is my witness - he actually trying to get me lynched. I know this good old scummy method - it is when you want someone to be lynched whom is with actual bandwagon alredy on him, all you need to do is just trowing away your vote on some useless case.

Next part: his post was on

Mon Apr 18

.
Then on Thu Apr 21, 2011.

Sorry guys, been busy,

I'll post my analysis in the morning.

Right now I am leaning toward Vino scum though just so you know where I am at.

Now its Apr 23. And still nothing.

[Jora]

Well, the only way you're going to find out before the end of the game is if I live to the day after a scum lynch.

Ha-ha. I told you. I know it already. So I just going to lynch one "cunning" scum.

How does starting the Rico wagon constitute "riding the wave"? And I was suspicious of Jora all the way back in post 73, again before anyone else had mentioned the thing I did. If I'm riding the wave, I'm riding the very front of it.

Well, this is your #73 of which you are so proud.

...This is not a "damn good reason." This looks to me like an RVS reason and trying to pass off responsibility for what I can only assume was intended as a serious vote. If you have a more serious reason (like one based on something he did) for why you put Rico at L-1, I request that you give it; until then, FOS: }|{opa.

Misrep and blatant riding. My vote was obv an RV, because I did said that I was not ready to quit RVS at that time.

Here's the thing, though: I know I suck as scum - my most recent scum game is, I think, the only game I've gone on record as saying I'd like to forget ever happened. So you telling me that I'm bad at playing scum really isn't news to me at all.

Nope. Don't try to look untouched. You said about your 1st scum game before. I've alredy knowed it. And my point was this: I've answered that still nothing is chanced in your play, so you will probably be suck as scum forever. And that is offensive.

[Jora]

Wow, divert attention much because I'm lazy and horrible on Day 1 as I have admitted? Wow. (...)

and said that he want me being lynched this day just for that.

When did I ever say that? You are putting words in my mouth and stirring up trouble from no basis. NOW I am pushing for your lynch, but I said NOTHING about lynching you before.

Overdefensive. Bada-bing.

Remember this?

I don't want to be stuck on day 3 with you

And your current vote just approved it too.

And who is overdefensive here? Me, huh?! I fairly doubt. I don't even said I think you are scum and you begin your bullshitty "poor at D1" defence again. In fact I can bring up my meta and start defend myself just in a way you did. I always play like I'm playing now when I'm a town. I just don't care being noisy because I feel myself free from the responsibility for a clan-survival (someone can count town as a clan too, but nuh, they just bunch of individuals - completely different feelings at play). I know that it makes me an easy target as someone had mentioned, but it's just my town play.
I know for sure that most of the players due to lack of experience, lack of common sense or natural suspiciousness simply don't know which things are scummy and which are not, they just hearing a niose and voting. And I use this knowledge when playing scum. In fact I really rare being lynched when playing scum.

[Jora]

Thian I'm not lynched yet. So no reason to be overjoyed - i hear a scum vibes from you.
Better tell us what do you think about my lynch.
You are not so foolish to think that you can lynch IAI today, why do you keeping your vote threre?

sanchocolate: Do you feel at this point, that there is 1 scum on }{opa's wagon? If so, who is it?

Are you trying to get me lynched without soiling your hands?

[Jora]

I strongly fell this ^^^ is town vs town brawl.
The thing which makes me think that is I can 1-1 repeat Vino's words with regards to my reads on him:

ToD

Vino:
I've been looking at

ToD

Vino and even though I was trying to see him in a negative light in order to try and get a feel for IAI's view point against him, I just can't see it.

@ McGriddle: Give us your thoughts about existing cases on Trumpet of Doom, please. And I want to ask about this:

Sorry guys, been busy, I'll post my analysis in the morning. Right now I am leaning toward Vino scum though just so you know where I am at.

What was your point for thinking Vino=scum? The only connection I see is that earlier Vino had poked you.
And this.

(Contexst: Why you poking me, when )

there are far more scummy players than myself in this game right now as I will mention in a post tonight

Question: who are those scummy players which you saw (except me <- which folows from the context) and why then you telling in your next posts about "lack of reads on anyone"? But me is "the scummiest of all of us"?! Of all, of us?! What the hell wrong with you, damnit.

[Jora]

@ Your Highness, oh, excuse me, Mr. IC of This Honorable Group!
No personal feelings meant, just I dislike your 5 posts (on this page) dedicated to sole question of how do I should claim.
And what do you suggesting? To switch all my attention on a poor COPPA-protected boy? I say: no. It's up to you to decide whom you like to see in D2.
As for me, I just want to find a scum. And only after as far as possible to avoid being lynched myself. So only if someone whom I do not primarily suspect will get all 4 votes, only then I'll vote him myself.

[Jora]

i.e. I don't want to be lynched, but I can't switch my vote for this only reason i.e. whom do I choose from (me) vs (that guy) is obv = me.

@ McGriddle: I've completed some meta research about you and I don't get why for fuck's sake why are you continuing \in in all these newb-games if you playing really bad as VT without any trying to improve? Hoping to get a scum role and since everybody had used to your bad play then you could get an opportunity for an easy win?

I want you to read (or i don't know - may be re-read) this, McGriddle:

I think that a big sticking point for the town was the McGriddle lynch. The game slowed down so much once there was a wagon on him and nothing really new was brought up for days and days. (...)
Remember, scum wants the game to roll into a state of inactivity like that because it is easier to control bored townies. Don't let it happen in your next game!

[Jora]

Are you sure about having only 15 losses? Your recent games:

McGriddle = VT
Newbie 963 - Replaced into IC slot, was lynched on day two = scum win
Newbie 1009 - replaced in, claimed doc = perfect scum win
Newbie 1019 - Lynched Day 1 = doc win on D4 MyLo
Newbie 1082 - supported a speed-lynch of obv town (4 rl days long), killed Night 1 = perfect scum win

McGriddle = Scum
Newbie 995 - alnost lynched D1 - claimed doc, selflynched D2, his partner D3 = almost perfect town win

Should I continue? I guess not. All I want to say: stop ruining this game.

[Jora]

I am Not Pissed Off. I am Calm.
VOTE: McGriddle
Die, please.

[Jora]

You have already OMGUSed me and Vino. So gtfo.

[Jora]

I'm voting you because you CAN play, but fooling and trolling instead.

[Jora]

Just to make things perfectly clear: this vote is not some a sort of policy-crap. McGriddle play is heavily pro-scum.
Also, when he was scum he spoke pretty much like this:
"There's been much more scummy things that have been going on"
"I am not a very active player, I'm going to miss some things, I am going to ignore some things, that happens, doesn't make me scummy."
"Now I am not being over defensive"
Sounds familiar, does it?

[Jora]

I see you have a problem. You not only ICing but for some reason

expect others to obey

. And that's not what IC is about.

Kiari, Opa ((being blatently combative when there isn't really a need)) (...)
the amount of resistance that Kiari had given, even to simple questions, there was no reason for it.

And since IAI had been questioning about your "IC-hat" too, I'm not surprised whom do you want to lynch:

So, Trumpet of doom. Top new scum reads.

I am Innocent
Kiari
Opa

Totalitarianism much? Heil Thian!

On the other things, dear. Mcgriddle is not a lurker - he was here all the time ignoring 90% of things addressed to him. Kiari was disobeying, but not ignoring others till the moment when she failed with activity, so she replaced out. In fact only when she gave a resistance to the simple questinos those simple questions selfs had started to make any sense (my town read on her I got mainly from that discussion). I am not OMGUSing if that is not obvious to you I can explain. I had a lot of oportunities to do it before and it is pure coincidence that McG appears the last one who voted me. You misrep IAI. I told you my position with regards to your (which now you are calling to be) "lynch all lurkers" post earlier (pro-policy & nazi & premature) and again - McG is not a lurker.

[Jora]

I'm not angry.
I try to understand your position. Why being combative and resistantive (<- donno how to spell right) you considering as scummy things. And if you are not trying to become a dictator then why did you done that blatant manipulative attempt?

[Jora]

See I hate this condescending crap coming from opa. That's why I can't really get into this game. I'm just not feeling it because the more I would like to investigat and share my opinions, the less I want to because of what master opa will say. It's not fun playing in a game where you feel forced into everything.

And from what exact moment my posts had started to annoy you? Why are you telling this only now, Mc Tolerance?!
Where was I when you were in Newbie 995?!

Guys, don't buy this shit. His meta tells me = scum,scum,scum.
If he would be town, he'd rather let us lynch him here and now instead of answering questions (which I "forced him" to do).

[Jora]

@ Trumpet of Doom, lurk out, I know you watching. Have you ever played with McG before?

[Jora]

@ I Am Innocent Do you see ToD + McG as a scum team?

Spoiler:

I'm asking because I see it very clear. The way McG interacted with ToD in early days is 100% coincides with his scum-meta. As far as I know McG still don't like being lynched, two times in past he fakeclaimed to avoid a lynch. The contradiction of his vote on me in the light of this post (and others, when he tells that Vino is scummier than me) makes him look way more scummy, so why he did it? May be he attacked me because I attacked his partner ToD? Also, his connection to ToD is seen from very begining (RV+"Oh Thian is in here!"+almost all of his early posts commenting on ToD or on the guys who commented ToD). All this tells me that McG & ToD = scum buddies. Damn, that is so obvious, let them just give up and we end this comedy.

[Jora]

@ Thian, don't be so tunelled. I think you town, and it seems you was right (sorry) when said about 1 scum being on my wagon and one being off. What do you think about my case on McG + ToD?

[Jora]

@ McGriddle you better be careful with words. If you have nothing else to say, so better shut up or you will be replaced out of this game.

[Jora]

I meant only this:

[*] Respect your fellow players at

all times.

If I feel attacks are getting too personal or out of hand I will replace/mod kill you as I see fit.

Remember that it's newbie game i.e. teaching game, so you should not behave like that (or at least pretend you trying). Mmmmkay?
And if it's your defence so be it. May be I'm an idiot indeed, but if you are town why damnit wouldn't you just answer the questions as you had promised?

[Jora]

Now this is a WIFOM ((Wine in Front of Me, trying to outguess someone without having any knowledge)) Would he do that because he is town, sacrifice himself day one so we won't have to worry about him. OR would he offer his lynch hoping that by doing so that we believe he is town, but he is actually scum.

I donno why you defending him, that mekes me suspicious of you. Aren't you were playing with him two times? When he was a scum, in newb Newbie 995, he was on obv target to lynch too. This guy just don't care. When he was in a day before his lynch he just made this and went free. Also, he fakeclaiming doc when he was a townie.

Gosh! All the #333 by ToD is so wrong. No way it could come from town. Even if it is, then he should vote yourself.

Spoiler:

Jora has tried pretty much throughout the entire game to discredit me (iso posts 0-3, 12, 19, 21, 29, 42, 44), McG (10, 43, 49-50, 53-54) and Thian (11-16, 48, 55-56). In other words, the guy who's been on site longest, the guy who claims to have played the most games, and the IC, or the three people who would be most expected to know how to play the game. Trying to discredit the three people who should most know what they're talking about, especially when at least one of us has to be town and the probability that the scumteam is two of us is only 1 in 12, is highly anti-town at best,

Misrep. Discredit? It's scumhut. Simple. Are you want us to follow you, or Thian, or McG (lol) without even asking questions?

Combine that with the deadline approaching, and there's only one thing that makes sense for me to do.

Oh, I see. You was lurking and waiting for that moment to come. "deadline approaching, so I can vote and don't care".

Besides, it's your case. You should be the one trying to convince everyone else of its merits.

Lol, IAI think you're scum. Why does he need to convince a scum to vote another person who he thinks is scum too? Townies should think on their own. And read all the cases.

This from the guy who earlier was certain that the scumteam was Rico and one of (me/McG).

What? You trying to discredit me just for it? Yes, I think RICO/SO is not a scum atm. And what? Should I know the both scums from very begining? Besides, isn't it you wrote this: "There's a certain amount of "goddammit guys, you can't all be scum" at play on my end. Beyond Rico/SO and Jora, you and Kiari/sancho are setting off alarm bells". <- he targeting for easy lynches only. Without even making cases, just like this: "I still think there's a Kiari-scum case that could be made" or that: "deadline approaching".

So, OK. That makes ToD an obv scum.

Thian, if you doubt about McG (ok, he is the riddle and can be a anti-town town again, however i doubt), you should really consider ToD then.

Vino, Sigma - IMO we have a better chances of lynching scum if you will vote ToD instead of McG. If you can't see why he is obv scum, just trust one of me or IAI, we can't be scums both.

VOTE: Trumpet of Doom.

[Jora]

I know that everybody should think on their own, but with situation like this, when a lot of players were inactive in a whole week before the deadline, when two "dead"-voters on my wagon (Supreme Overlord and sanchocolates), the only right thing we could do is all voting for ToD.

[Jora]

}|{opa: 3 (Supreme Overlord, sanchocolates, McGriddle, Trumpet of Doom)
Trumpet of Doom: 2 (I Am Innocent, }|{opa)
I am Innocent: 1 (Thian)
McGriddle: 1 (Vino91, SigmaEXE003)

Sigma, Vino - don't feel shy to switch yor votes. It's important part of a play. You become lucky to decide how this party will turn.
It's easier to save my ass if you will keep your votes still, but it luckier to lynch a scum if you will vote ToD.

30 hours left.

[Jora]

@ Thian: A lot of players are looking at you and thinking that you are town. They need you to make your opinion clear: me, McG or ToD. Lets be realists, there isn't much choises right now.
What are you waiting for?

[Jora]

Opa, I have made mention before that I would not be happy with a ToD lynch

Well, I hope you will have time enough to change your opinoin. It is never too late to mend.
My an IAI cases on ToD had been developed independently (some points still the same but it's inevitable). Honestly, I don't feel myself being led by IAI on this.
Let me try to convince you, last time?
Remember how you voted me, for keeping away from "wrath of our IC"? ToD blatantly do it all the time. And even worse he buddying Thian and... McG! And looking for the easyest ways to place his vote (except McG, for some reason). I donno how this could be said by town! Just I doubt that if McG is his buddy so why does he make things that clear? So McG could be used as a shield by ToD. I.e. if ToD flips scum - McG would be 99% lynched anyways, but if now we lynch McG and he flips town - then ToD would be "shielded" by this D1 "mishap" -> next (very likely) me will be lynched on D2. = 2 misslynches and scums in a day before the win.

[Jora]

Wall of useless shit ^^^ He said nothing helpful. It hurts town especially, when it's a day before the deadline all the words should be weighed. If it's not a ill-intentioned distraction I donno what it is. Scum, scum, scum.

And he lied about those three days - he was here, but lurking. He maked a posts in another thread.

[Jora]

Also, he lying when pretending to have a strong, solid and old case on me. Well, he could been suspecting me from an ancient times, but all the evidences of it that we can see are here:

...This is not a "damn good reason." This looks to me like an RVS reason and trying to pass off responsibility for what I can only assume was intended as a serious vote. If you have a more serious reason (like one based on something he did) for why you put Rico at L-1, I request that you give it; until then,

FOS: }|{opa.

It's only misrep and speculation based on my second random vote. Second random vote is not a scumtell.
In light of this it's really fun to watch how he demands more and more posts with reasonings from IAI.

[Jora]

Also, I just can't stop laughing at this:

Jora has tried pretty much throughout the entire game to discredit me (iso posts 0-3, 12, 19, 21, 29, 42, 44),

McG

(10, 43, 49-50, 53-54) and Thian (11-16, 48, 55-56). (...) About the only reason I can see for doing that is if

he's trying to get rid of people who will tell town things

other than what he wants them to hear

so that he can be town's leader, which is also scummy

unless you have

the reputation to back it up

.

LMAO - McG will tell me town things! And by reputation you meant: have a PR, scum? Or I should bring you the games where I become confirmed (somehow) and successfully had been led town to their victory? Simple enough - look at my wiki (or at my site if you can read Russian). Town almost always winned when I was a Cop. And I was a Cop many times.

[Jora]

*had led

[Jora]

@ Sancho: voting good guys is bad too. Unvote me. Listen to good guys. Vote bad ones. Vote Trumpet of Doom. I Am Innocent approves it. I promise you would not regret it.

[Jora]

How can I tell that you're lying?

You can't. I tell the truth. The problem is - you can't know it for sure. But, you see everybody at least once had attaked me. What does it mean? I'm not a pleasant person, but I'm good because I do scumhunt. ToD and does not scumhunting. He just want to lynch you without any questioning.
See?!:

sancho: horrible entrance into the game, then vanished, and

I still think there's a Kiari-scum case that could be made

And I feel he's gonna make it. Tommorow. And you will be lynched (you had been replaced into Kiari's slot).
Now you see why he is bad?

What about other people? Is he seen as a good guy to you?

I Am Innocent? Yes i think he's on our side.

[Jora]

So people that don't really give logical reasoning behind a vote is suspicious, kind of how I jumped on a bandwagon of you?

Yep. But in your case I fairly decided that it could be the lack of expirience is to blame. You can be scum too. I don't know for sure. But my guess is: you are town. (50% gut read on Kiari + 10% your own - because you had voted

at sight

within 10 minutes after replacement) = kind of 60% sure.

[Jora]

* Note: Actually pure theoretically everyone can be town with this probability: 7/9=0,777... My percent of assurance mean that in my eyes your being town probability is rised by this 60%. Also, afair I told about my % for somebody else (Vino?) in this game, but forgot to explain this.

[Jora]

@ Vino. What about this:

Opa, I have made mention before that I would not be happy with a ToD lynch

Well, I hope you will have time enough to change your opinoin. It is never too late to mend.
My and IAI cases on ToD had been developed independently (some points still the same but it's inevitable). Honestly, I don't feel myself being led by IAI on this.
Let me try to convince you, last time?
Remember how you had voted me, for keeping away from "wrath of our IC"? ToD blatantly does it all the time. And even worse he buddying to Thian and... McG! ToD is looking for the easyest ways to place his vote (excepting McG, for some reason). I donno how this could been said by town! Why am I doubt in McG lynch being good this time. If McG is his buddy, so why does he make things that clear? So McG could been used as a shield by ToD. I.e. if ToD would flips scum - McG will be lynched anyways, but if now we lynch McG and he flips town - then ToD would be "shielded" by this D1 "mishap" -> next (very likely) me (or sanco, or SO) will be lynched on D2 = 2 misslynches and scums in a day before the win.

[Jora]

And by the way, what happens if the day ends without any lynches? Is there no lynch then?

There would be no lynch then. But I doubt that will happen.

[Jora]

When it would be your last post before the deadline, tell us please. Don't go offline without saying "Goodbuy town". Mmmkay?

[Jora]

@ Trumpet of Doom

Spoiler:

Tunnel vision much?

WTF? You accuse me of being suspicious of you, Thian and McG (also I had been questioning almost everyone in this game). Where is the tunnel?

So now I'm scum because when I got back, I did modding stuff but not playing stuff? That's incredibly bad form, sir.

Protip: *blah-balh-blah-how-important-i-am* (Do we have anyone else who has modded and can back me up on this?) So if I only did modding stuff, I might simply not have had time to play this game.

So, you admit that you intentionally avoided the truth (of course that does not meant you was lying, ha-ha). Yes, I've modded more games than you. Placing a good in-game post usually takes equal time (if you you have been following thread and making a notes). Mr. Pompousness.

The issue there is that you were trying to put a random vote on a serious wagon. You Do Not Do That. And if (a) the wagon had gone to lynch and (b) Rico is actually town, you would easily have been the scummiest player on the wagon, because you had no reason for your vote

and

called for a hammer without a claim.

Ok. I had played with a flippant attitude. I admited it. I've done with it a long time ago, dont ya see?

Psst: "town" is the indirect object of "tell", not an adjective modifying "things". "Things" is modified by "other than what [you want] them to hear". Hope that clears things up.

I'm not so bad at English. Don't even try, Mr. Logical Failure. So you saying that without "town" it correct -> "LMAO - McG will tell me things!". And that I am scum who had been "trying to get rid of people who will tell town things other than what he wants them to hear" (<- scum wants to hear scummy things, right? so "other things" = "town things" in this context).

And by reputation you meant: have a PR, scum?

No, I actually meant "have a reputation as a good scumhunter." If I'd meant PR, I would have said PR. Quit twisting my words to mean anything other than what I actually said, scumbag.

Or I should bring you the games where I become confirmed (somehow) and successfully had been led town to their victory? Simple enough - look at my wiki (or at my site if you can read Russian). Town almost always winned when I was a Cop. And I was a Cop many times.

Consider the low opinion I have of your scumhunting skills. I know you're wrong about me, and I think it's not impossible for you to be/have been bussing SO or McG. I can, to a certain extent, believe that you believe what you're saying (if you're town) - I just don't think I believe what you're saying.

You are not scumhunt at all, so shut up. Also, I will laugh at this later, when you flip scum.

I would probably be very entertained by seeing your face when I flip town. Just throwing that out there.

Wait. Did you said that again?! Ok ->ur not scumhunt -> shut up, scum -> I will laugh at this later.

I

admitted in thread

to being lazy? Why do you insist on trying to prove the point?

Ha-ha-ha. Best defence of the week!

@ Thian

Spoiler:

I am:

Mcgriddle lynch

. I will take it on board, but right now I get the feeling that the two lynch victims are Opa and Mcgriddle at this point. Opa is making sure we take note of how useless Mcgriddle is

on day 1

. I can't

figure out if Opa is town, and out of survival, he latched onto Mcgriddle's lack of posting/avoidance of questions

to save his own self

.

Why are you constantly repeting this "on day 1"? From McG meta I can say that his bad play is by no means limited to d1. Why are you trying to discredit me, but supporting McG lynch? Do NOT misrep me! I'm not questioning McG to save my ass, I was trying to determine his alignment. I'm supporting ToD's lynch right now.

@ everyone: If you are scum, would you purposely offer yourself up for a lynch on day 1 and leave your partner stranded to last out 5 days, pretty much a month and a half to get yourself team a win? You got to be pretty damn savy and willing to put in the work by yourself. That is why I believe Mcgriddle is not scum at the moment. Is it a ploy, it could very well be. Sure. I can appreciate that, but the reality of it is,

if I were scum, i'd want my partner around

. I feel

people are ignoring this

.

Stop defending McG, you make me think that

you know his true alignment

. His meta says - yes he can be scum now. And I don't see it as "purposely offer yourself". No not at all - he said it in different way. More like this ->

I didn't take this seriously. Now that I actually think about it... He was probably trying to say something along the lines of "If you think I'm scum then do something about it, otherwise stop talking." Basically saying talk is cheap.

You are not McG. Which people? Am I ignoring this? Actually I considering this too. And I doubt in McG lynch too, but i find it impossible to defend him.

Opa: you continue to tell people, you won't regret it, i promise you. We can't take your word for it, you are telling people what to do, and you easily swayed Sanchocolate to head over onto Mcgriddle lynch from you. You have accused me of dictating, yet you are doing the same thing.

What a misrep again? Sanchocolate voted McG. Did I ask him to vote McG?!
[/quote]

Sanchocolate: *tl/dr, you are bad, voting }|{opa was bad, voting McG was bad, Mafiascum is complex, why?*

@ Supreme Overlord:

Spoiler:

I did not post in between.

But I did. You can see all the long path to this assumption. If somehow I figure out that McG & ToD theory is wrong, I will get back at your tail (or may be not).

Obviously he wants to save himself, but it seems like he's trying to tie himself to (what I perceive as) as town player. Why not say 'Vote McGriddle, Vino approves it'? Except for the fact that Trumpet's been more on }|{opa than McGriddle has.

Misrep. You posted this for sole purpose of discrediting me, don't you?

I'm not moving my vote. I think }|{opa will be the best lynch for today; unlike McGriddle, he's been participating with most of the players and will be valuable with a flip. I should still be on a couple more times before deadline.

Participating is the most important part of scumhunting (at least for me). Lynch for participating = great plan for a scum, isn't it?

It saddens me that ToD would not be lynched today. However a tiny hope remains. Vote him if you suddenly understand that he's scum.
Also, I will hammer McG if it would be needed.

[Jora]

@ Thian. Why are you STILL NOT VOTING? If you so suspicious of me - vote me dammit. Just stop f* my brain. I really suspect you of trying to manipulate this lynch. It's only one day left and we need some time for claim and related discuss.

[Jora]

I know, I've already commented on this, but I keep wondering what are people thinking when they saying this thing (it's very common mistake).

I think }|{opa will be the best lynch for today; unlike McGriddle, he's been participating with most of the players and will be valuable with a flip.

That is not an apptopriate reason for keeping a vote on. This logic is so corrupt. It always a bad sign, if town start to follow it. Even "lynch all lurkers" is better than this. Why?
Ok. Imagine you magically get to know that I'm town right now. What would you see except that I see right now from my current assumption that you are town? Ding-ding. Nothing. If you don't understand why am I suspecting ToD now, you will not get it after my flip.
On the other hand, when somebody flips scum it brings an equal amount of info no matter was he lurking or being active. Why? Scum normally would never tell you who his partner is, nor who the real townies are. However, his

actions

remains the same no matter how much

words

he was saying.

[Jora]

This

By saying this you're assuming I Am Innocent is town because if he was scum he would already know you were town (assuming you're not the scum team), and it would not surprise him. Are you confident enough in your reads to assume him town?

This is brillant! Good play, Vino.
Also, this

Consider the low opinion

I have

of your scumhunting skills.

I know you're wrong about me, and I think it's not impossible for you to be/have been bussing SO or McG.

He actually speak with me like he thinks that I'm town. Opinion on my skills? I would never said nothing like this ^^^ to a guy who I'm thinking to be a scum and whom I voting for that reason.
SCUM COUGHT GUILTY SCUM VOTE FOR A SCUM

[Jora]

God dammit. Why newbs are so newbs? ToD is obv obv scum! He must be lynched.

[Jora]

So does this make ToD at L-1?

No L-2. Could you land your town hand to put him at L-1?

[Jora]

Opa, why do you say "Your" town if you are town along with sanchocolate, shouldn't it be, lend "Our" town a hand. You aren't including yourself in the group. Why?

My bad. You mean like "Could you lend

your

our town hand" Sounds weird to me. Hand belongs to him, not to us. I donno, I'm thinking in Russian, so it could be a translation issue. I meant "his hand is townish".

I will be voting before deadline, don't yo uworry about my vote. It will be used. Right now I am looking at the conversation.

Ok. Trust you on this one. I hope you know what you doing.

[Jora]

The tunneling is the "LYNCH TOD LYNCH TOD LYNCH TOD LYNCH TOD LYNCH TOD LYNCH TOD" part of so fucking many of your posts. What were your last five posts that were pushing a case other than mine? (Links will be acceptable.)

Isn't it you who was saying that town should present his case and try to convince the others? And why I need to push someone other's case now? Are you out of your mind?

"...who would be expected to tell town..." Besides, he's not dead yet - just because he hasn't contributed much yet doesn't mean he's not going to kick it into gear on subsequent Days.

Well, I hope he will.

Either way, even if you're town (which I don't think you are), you're a liability and therefore should be dealt with before LyLo. (And I have, as town, tried to lynch someone for more or less exactly that reason - I think they're scum, and even if they're town, they'll be a distraction of we let them get to LyLo. See Open 180, which you can find yourself.)

WTF? Are you kidding me? You suspecting me being town and voted me D1 just to not let me get to LyLo?! Because I'm "liability"? WTF does it mean, btw. However, I guess it's not "a damn good reason" "for a serious part of the play". If you're town (which I highly doubt), you made a fatal mistake.

It could be a slip, but it also could be due to Opa's first language being Russian.

If it would be a slip it become a stupidiest slip ever, don't you think?

[Jora]

Opa, just to clarify, you are asking Sanchocolate, to give his "town hand" to you, to help lynch ToD.

do you know Sanchocolate is town?

First, I am not Opa. I'm Jora. It is in my sig, below. Second I really hate how you trying to backstab be all last pages withot saying it loud. This "slip" thing, and you blatanly avoiding to vote - all just awful.

Second, I've already explained that all. See:

Opa, why do you say "Your" town if you are town along with sanchocolate, shouldn't it be, lend "Our" town a hand. You aren't including yourself in the group. Why?

My bad. You mean like "Could you lend

your

our town hand" Sounds weird to me. Hand belongs to him, not to us. I donno, I'm thinking in Russian, so it could be a translation issue. I meant "his hand is townish".

Also, Vino get it right. Thanks, Vino.

There is my reads on sancho, you can believe it or not. But why are you asking again?

So people that don't really give logical reasoning behind a vote is suspicious, kind of how I jumped on a bandwagon of you?

Yep. But in your case I fairly decided that it could be the lack of expirience is to blame. You can be scum too. I don't know for sure. But my guess is: you are town. (50% gut read on Kiari + 10% your own - because you had voted

at sight

within 10 minutes after replacement) = kind of 60% sure.

[Jora]

Something is not sitting right with that post Opa, I am really sorry. I understand where Vino is coming from about wording and grammar, and English. I also understand that it would be pretty simple slip for someone to do.

If you asking why do I formulated it that way? Simple - I studying English idioms. If you payed attention, I've used in this thread tree or more alredy.

[Jora]

Jora, I do apologize for stating your name incorrectly. With that out of the way. I am not backstabbing anyone. Why are you taking this so personally. It is really just a game. I am not avoiding any vote. I can vote you, or I can vote Trumpet of doom.

The thing is. I terribly upset. Did you see what amount of work I've done, how much time I spend for ToD case? Look at my wiki: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p2882674
It's about my gameplay. I always try to get people thinking about the lynch. And it pays off.

[Jora]

I will not reveal my role.

[Jora]

Btw, if you doubt in my scumhunting skills - look at my wiki (oh, I said it again). In both my newb games - I've lynched the scum. And I proud to think that my part in getting their lynch was significant.

[Jora]

[Trumpt of Doom:

Farily townish.

Jora, how did you go from Fairly townish, to ToD being scum? Because he started questioning you. Infact, I have seen you bounce around more scummy people ideas in your read through. I am still reading yours, but this isn't looking so good.

Link, please. I don't recall saing it.
In my iso 19 I've already called him scum. And that was early in the game.

[Jora]

you even attempted to sway attention off of you, onto mcgriddle, to save your own ass and attempted to get a wagon going on him.

Again this? No. If my priority would be to save my ass, McG will be very-very likely lynched already. I was questoning him to get at least some clues on his alignment.

[Jora]

Really, if I look at ToD's. Sure, he's mentioned mine and mcgriddles name, could be buddying....but you also started climbing up sigma's leg calling sigma town, also sanchocolate town in hopes to pull heart strings. You also started to say you are upset. Why are you allowing emotion to get involved in a game? In hopes to sway someone?

I guess you talking to me. Well, you see - you really get me upset, and don't trying to hide it. Why? McGriddle was pretty emotional too, but I feel that I have more rights to be upset than him. What "heart strings"? I don't think so. However, why I could not agitate people whom I thinking atm are towns?

@424: Yeah, um, that was actually him commenting on SO's reads. Not that he's not still scum, but that's not why he's scum. (Count the negatives in each clause, starting... now.)

Damn you, Thian!

Post 338 jora, you got upset because ToD stated that you were trying to discredit Mcgriddle, myself and him. You go on to say you were scum hunting. Then later in that same spoiler you accuse him of discrediting your post. Well isn't he scum hunting ?

ToD get me upset? I don't think so. "Discredit" <- WTF? he just misrep me. Because I was scumhunting. And misrep =/= scumhunt. The only scumhunt he done was his read on RICO's 1st post.

Also, by you admitting to you being upset, and then your unwant to reveal your role. ((not that it is important)) you are pretty much folding your arms and taking your toys and going home.

WHAT?! HOW IS THIS?! ARE YOU TRYING TO MAKE ME MAD!!!!

[Jora]

THAT WAS ANALISIS ON SUPREME OVERLORD

[Jora]

THE SUPREME OVERLORD WAS THE ONE WHO MADE THAT LIST OF READS

[Jora]

The funny thing is here. Jora, you are so sure that ToD is scum, yet he came to your aide from my posting 424.

Nope. He used it just to make you say this ^^^

@424: Yeah, um, that was actually him commenting on SO's reads.

Not that he's not still scum, but that's not why he's scum. (Count the negatives in each clause, starting... now.)

See?! ^^^ If I would be on his place I'd said this too. It's a good psycological move. He's kinda indulgently "helps" you questioning me. Sadly, it's not a scumtell - he just rtying to survive.

[Jora]

*Nope to "he came to your aide"

[Jora]

I CAN SPEAK FOR MYSELF. I'D POINTED THAT ERROR SOONER OR LATER. I don't use this against him. SEE: I said this is not a scumtell. I just don't like that you use it against me.

[Jora]

I AM CARE YOU STUPID

[Jora]

DId you saw scum vs town competing before?! He is calm because he can in every moment fakeclaim.

[Jora]

^
| this was to Thian.

[Jora]

Proves. I am care of what I am saying in past. STOP misreping me and ask consistent questions. Or just hammer me, dammit.

[Jora]

You are not asking consistent questions you just make a misreps without supporting it with liks.

[Jora]

MY "thought processes" is FINE. AND I AM worrying about what I said in past

[Jora]

You know what? You have enough posting too. And you asking me. I keep answering,

patiently

because I am care of this lynch. You are not questioning ToD. See?!

[Jora]

Well if you are worrying about what you said in past, aren't scum more worried about what they say in past that will haunt them in the future?

Ok scum do care of it too. What is the logic here?!

[Jora]

God dammit, I am not

worry too much

. Or

too little

AS YOU SAID JUST A MINUTES AGO. I am worry just as I shoud be worried.

[Jora]

I know this is Wifom, but if I wqould be scum i just shit on this all pages and kilometers of pages before this moment and just made a good old fakeclaim. I am so pissed.

[Jora]

Yes, I do.

[Jora]

Can we put your life on it on day 2?

Why not. Im very sure. In fact I already riskd my life just to get him lynched.

And now we get into the debate over "why the hell would I fakeclaim VT if I could fakeclaim cop or doc and try to find out what PRs are actually in the setup?"

Yes, I expected something like this, since I've started to talk about fakeclaiming. He claim a VT - ace in the hole. Bang-bang.

[Jora]

I don't understand what do you exactly mean. I'm sure ToD is scum. And don't see any reasons for you to keep asking me about it. It's pretty weird.

Trumpet of Doom: may be you had disscused it, or may be not. What's difference? However I seen a lot of scums claiming VT. Especially in newb games.

[Jora]

Well if you belive his claim and think that I'm a town too. So choise is self-evident. Do not risk lynching non-revealed role.

[Jora]

You misreping me again. I hate only that. Actually you said in your last post: "and lynch jora. I do believe your claim."

How it could be "not considering you to lynch?", dammit!

[Jora]

@ SO:

Once a player is lynched the game enters twilight until I post a death scene; all players may continue to post.

[Jora]

Just copy-pasted it from VRK's game. Of course, Sotty will make a death scene.

[Jora]

So does this mean that ToD is lynched?

Also, why is SO going inactive all the time?

Yes. But ToD can still speak untill night falls.

Don't know, ask SO himself. He's Australian, may be he's busy fighting with crocodiles.

[Jora]

WTF ^^^?!

VOTE: McGriddle

ToD was fairly scummy. It is not my fault that he was playing so poorly.
However, now i see that McG should had been lynched yestarday. He must be scum.
Well if not, then i'd say this game was rigged from the start.

[Jora]

@ Supreme Overlord: you want me to claim now?

If not, i just say that it have some town benefits: 1)it helped me to save my town ass 2)scums still know nothing about PRs 3)also i think there was no point in claiming PR that early 4)i did it before - see maraphon's "Childhood Mafia" (in my wiki) for the reference.

Damn, I don't know who's second. I think Thian was pretty scummy in last part of the day.

[Jora]

Actually no. I think IAI is a second scum rather than Thian.

I really dislike the IAI's case on Vino. No one had supported it and voila! Vino is dead now. If I would be a scum whom do I considering for NK?
1. IAI - he was totally mistaken, but he is still probably the best scumhunter in this game (and one of the most popular players in town's eyes). I would never kill Vino, because it only helps IAI to find his mistakes at reasoning.
2. Jora (me) is easy to block at night then discredit and lynch. Yes, he could have a PR, but not worth the NK at all if mafias have a roleblocker.
3. Thian had shown his bad quality of town play and scums do not afraid of him.

I know it's all speculation on NK, but I have nothing better.

So IAI is my #2 from that moment forth.

why a) you might do it as VT and b) you might do it as PR?

c)because it was the best in that situation regardless of my role. Problem?

On day 1, he was pleading to lynch ToD. He even bet his own life on it that he was a scum. On day 2, he suddenly starts to say that McGriddle HAS to be a scum.

Not suddenly at all. McG was my #2. If ToD was playing a bit better, just a bit. All this will not happen. And McG would be lynched instead of ToD.

On D1 you were so focused on ToD that you didn't look at anybody else?

I had been looking at all the people. At you, at Vino, at Thian - at all.

[Jora]

GOD DAMMIT MCG START PLAYING AT ONCE!!!

This town generously gave you a credit and you had not been lynched. I see it was a wrong decision.

[Jora]

SO - To answer your question, I would say IAI. Merely because he is buddy buddy with some players I have town gut reads and confirmation for. (Vino, and Thian)

And his 8 posts for D1.

Elaborate on underlined part, please.

[Jora]

Lolwhat?
Are you sure you talking about IAI (I Am Innocent)?

[Jora]

@ Supreme Overlord It is arguable - should one claim on D1 or not. I really don't see any difference between PR being lynched D1 or killed/blocked right after.
I can't say for sure is it better for town or not. Ask our IC, he promised to figure it out.

[Jora]

Do you have any other witnesses of my scummness?

As far as I see you are completely worthless slot. You just doing some random shit and constantly making a stupidiest mistakes. It is obvious that you have not read the thread. This is not by any means a pro-town and in fact very very opposite thing. All you do is active flaking, ballast. All your recent newbie meta that I've collectedclearly shows that your side has a better chances to win if you would die asap. And even more town should allways lynch you D1. It simply maximizes the chances for the town win.

[Jora]

Wow. You would be a mislynch? I don't think so. And even if so we are not in LyLo now, so we still able to afford it.

You yourself should not get to LyLo

(I've already explained why).

[Jora]

you're talking about a policy lynch because past games my town teammates did better without me?

The "policy" part of your lynch is just a second reason making it extremly cool. It seems you at least read the part of those games. But this you completely miss for some reasons. This post is full of fail. The scum fail rather than town. So you are "suspecting" IAI for something, but don't read his posts, wow - looks like you a scum to me. Proper distancing fail?

[Jora]

OK, at the moment I'm thinking I Am Innocent and Sigma are both pretty town.

What makes you think so?

[Jora]

You are seriously reaching, and if you don't die today we have seriously messed up. You are by far the scummiest one here.

Could you explain please. If you say a hundred times that I'm a scum I would not become any scummier. What I am reaching for and where: links + commentary, please? Because as fas as I see you just continuing your yesterday's flaking (aka "I hate Jora").
Btw, do you considering IAI as my scum-partner or as independent possibility for another hypothetical scum-team?

[Jora]

"technical glitch" ha-ha. Ok "8 posts" part could be a technical glitch. But wtf with the rest of your post:

Obviously I can't complain too much

about the inactivity

since I was

part of the cancer

, but you asked, and

if I were to have been playing actively

then that is who my FoS would be on.

IAI is inactive scum? So you obviously don't read the thread at all.
AND THAT IS NOT A TECH GLITCH IT'S VERY YOUR OWN GLITCH.
Also, wtf - are you trying to make a case on me based on your own fail?

[Jora]

First - we in LyLo NOW. This means one missvote and we screwed.

It seems we have Roleblocker+ Goon + all VT setup. Yes, I am a VT. If somebody have a role - he should calim now.

Btw, why are you, Thian, completely missed such obv IC part of this game?

I don't see how am I "obv" scum. The reality totally contradicts to this Thian's thesis. What was happened between Thian's last non D3 post when he said that I'm town?

FOS: Jora cheerleading, day 1 distraction and his plea's for his own survival seemed more to do with him saving his own self rather than thinking about the bigger picture

Ok. Is that makes me such an obv scum? 1)cheerleading to lycnh his #1 - from when it became a sumtell? 2)"day 1 distraction" - what? link please. And not from my RV stage of play. 3)"his plea's for his own survival seemed more to do with him saving his own self rather than thinking about the bigger picture" - shut up! you Mr. Misrepresentation (IT IS 4 or 9 TIME YOU SAYING THIS), all was completely reversed. I repeat, if I wanted just to save my ass - McG would be lycnhed. I was trying very hard to do my best as town, because ToD was really very scummy.


Ok I'm done here. Whom do I consider as a scum team now? Thian and McG.

In fact it's Thian who saved McG

from deserved lynch. He was constantly postponed his deciding vote. Even after IAI, me, and some others was repeatedlyr asking. If he would placed his vote on McG (which was a logical choise since he was telling about town reads on both of me and ToD) before I convinced Vino (and that was long and hard) McG will be lynched.
Also why Thian was postponing if this is true:

crap-tacular....

I really hate being deciding.

I wish I could get both claims but that is too much role reveal for my liking.

OMG! What a lie. I mean: it is what he was expecting to do, since he postponed his vote.

Tl;dr. Also, I have another theories. I've done a lot of meta, thread reading and such stuff. But whom would I be voting is self-evident to me

VOTE: McGriddle

Nothing is dismissing possibility of him scum. Even more - it constantly increasing, all my theories involving him. Well, I see the only possibilty when I mistaken: Thian and SO scumteam. If so - good game guys, you deserved your victory. If I vote for somebody else today and McG is a scum I never forget it to myself, never. McG's playstyle (the lack of it to be fair) should not be tolerated.

[Jora]

Jora, you are claiming you are VT. Who is the scum team again? You refuse to look at sigma? So you claim Mcgriddle, S.O and Myself are potential scum. That is 3 choices. If what you say is true. Then one of the choices you have select, is town. There are not 3 scum.

Calm down, will you? 3 scums? Sigma town? Where did you saw all that things? I was only saying that if McG is not a scum, then all will be over soon. [hint]It doesn't matter whom I think to be most plausible scum team. So wtf difference? But yes, I think sigma is a town. [/hint]

Jora: You were a distraction, the amount of posting, calling people stupid / idiots,

slinging anyone under the lynch vote just to save your own ass

, your attempts to start debating about religion,

politics

,

your contradictions through out the day

.

Those were all poor play.

I don't need to link you. There were quite a few people in the game who have witnessed it.

1)I did a lot of analisis and interactions, more than everyone else. The amount of posts you did when you was asking me D1 was awful. I was just answering, just playing by your rules (because I had to), so it should been counted out. That "interrogation" thing of yours was a distraction. IMO distraction from obv possibility to lycnh McG instead of me or ToD. You did it. And yet, you are still distracting town. I mean what you had posted right now is useless.
YOU JUST REPEATING YOUR MISREPS. WTF -AGAIN AND AGAIN.
I'm not going to call you stupid, because I think you are scum and you doing it all intentionally.
If you want to disprove - then do it

with links

, please. Because I had never asked about politics (also, about religon - all was not serious part of the game, before I get a case), was never agitating just to save my ass, and never did a contradictions. And I think my play was good. I found the right town tells about Vino, sancho, IAI (sadly, I start suspecting him D2, but he had no time to answer, so it counted out ).

Probably the worst decision in the game that I did was lynch ToD. That I am owning up to and it was a mistake.

Ha-ha. So you trying to say that I'm scum? Why so indirect?

you THREW a careless vote out THIS early on a potential final day!

Careless? Nope. I don't think so. Watch closely - I had meta'd his play from 10 recent games. I was trying to get something from McG from ancient times. Nothing had chainged. No town tells at all. Scum reads - yes I have some (I had been posted a lot in D1 and D2). HE IS NOT A "NULL" (as he and you, Thian, trying to represent). He is a scum. And doing scummy things. The Classic Scum - not reaing the thread, saying "there is more scummier player than me", OMGUSing, not responding, lurking, flaking.
And stop with this bullcrap "Jora did, bad, bad, how bad". I am not a noob, and I know what I am doing. Next time place such knd of comments into IC remark, please, so that I could just skip it.

@ McG: where am I soft-claimed? I refused to claim. Now I can tell about main town benefit of this move - no one scum dare to fakeclaim. I almost sure that scum killed IAI thinking that he could be doctor or cop (it depends of what they were thinking about me). And we know for sure what the exact setup is.
Also, put your "OMGUS" comment back in your mouth. My vote is by no means OMGUS (yeah, read the wiki and get it right), but your vote is.


^^^ tl;dr. all indifferent.
The main point:
Now we have two voters. Mcg - me, Me - McG. Obv, if we are both townies then we lose already.

Therefore, no need to vote someone else - it will only reduce our chances.

Good luck, town.

[Jora]

Ha-Ha It was me who sarted pushing presure on you at the first place. And I did a lot of resoning with my case on you. You not. Only lie, misreps and balh-balh.

Link where I claimed a PR, or shut up.

[Jora]

If you are Town jora, why are you not Questioning someone who put you at L-1, AKA Sigma.

Because it was pro-town. Do not try to trow suspicions away. Things are clear: me or McG. I had no questions to sigma.

But I have now (see below).

Jora town - Mean 2 people on the Jora vote count are scum who were pushing hard for a jora lynch day 1

because of how jora had played day 1

and wanted to drag jora along to cover up their own self.

Oh, you almost got it. And how exactly I had played D1: Why scums are so eager to lynch me if I played not very good (lynched ToD)? Answer is: the second my suspect - McG.

The problem is, Jora is not helping himself by randomly throwing around the "stop misrepping, links or shut up", telling people to calm down when he, himself got pretty emotional and pissy on the end of day 1 which came across as, he is willing to throw anyones name out there as long as it isn't himself being lynched.

Dont even try. IT IS YOUR PROMBLEM. WHERE IS THE LINKS DAMMIT? STOP MISREP ME!
I HAVE SOME LINKS - why am I so pissed:
because, you, are, blatantly, misreping, me, every, time. So many times in fact - again and again.
Trying to discredit me on the empty place - pseudo "slip"

@ McGriddle: By Jora's lie, you mean the soft claiming and then claiming VT?

Well, let's see... His ISOs 119 and 120 were what I believe to be clear indication that he is a PR.

My ISO 119. My ISO 120. Where the hell did you saw those "clear indications"? [hint]VT is a role too, and could be roleblocked too[/hint] I never said that I have some pover role. Never. Just underlined that I may have one or maybe not. However, paranoia strikes both sides - townies see the scums everywhere, scums see the power roles. I guess our stupid scums had spent both roleblocks on me Am I right, McG?

@ Jora: If the possibilities for scum teams in your eyes are Thian+McG or Thian+SO, why vote McGriddle? It seems you think Thian is more likely scum, even though less scummy.

Why it so hard to understand things right? I see Thian+SO as the worst scenario. My primary theories in order of plausibility are: McG+Thian, McG + SO, McG + you.

Anyway, Neither Jora nor McGriddle are really helping us out here

Dont even try to compare me with him. I had collected all about McG. I have a huge case on him:
43, 45, 47, 50,
Scumtells from meta: 54
57, 62
D2: He doesn't bother reading the thread, he doesn't bother making a cases.

Also - I remember this interesting detail: McG had voted you.
It interesting because he voted you for your vote on RICO/SO.

[Jora]

*Thian + SO is the worst

plausible

scenario. I don't believe in SO+sigma, or Thian+sigma. Either way - it means imminent defeat, so I just saying it in case if i'm wrong with McG (to look cool after party).
However, Thian+ sigma had been proven impossible already, since we are still playing.

My bet is McG + Thian, it explains everything: all their votes, all their actions: Thian's behavior on D1 end, Thian's constant defense of McG ("don't touch him - he's bad on d1" - many times I heard it from him), Vino's death (heavily suspected both of them), Thian's ultimate survival (despite the fact that majority of players had the town reads on him), Thian's unavailing efforts to misrep or discredit me (since scums was thinking that I softclaimed).

[Jora]

Townie is a role.
Where did I said that I have a powers? Or that I know that I have been blocked? Links or shut up.
I never lied in this game. However you lied a lot. Wanna links?

[Jora]

Thian, wtf? So why are you misreped me then? If you don't wanted to see a response? You refused to bring up links, therefore you know that what you was saying was a lie.
As I see it: you doing it all intentionally.
If you town, why you are doing it insted of telling about your own views on possible scumteams. You insinuating that me is a scum without saying it directly - I am not a big fan of this kind of play. It seems to me that you primarily considering me as a possible scum. WTF? All your questions were about me (not ToD, not McG). I did nothing particularly scummy to being questioned that hard. Even worse - you trying to misrep me between questions to make me look bad. So I had to work on disproving those misreps each time I answering. And you saying it's my fault? Screw you.


And I still thinking about other possibilities. For example nothing had dismissed this case. So SO + McG could very likely be scums too.

[Jora]

^^^ if you go to the full post you'll see that I was saying: 2)scums still know nothing about PRs and 4)an example when I was a PR and did not claimed. So in this context it obv means that if I would be PR I did not claimed either.

@ Thian,

Exactly Jora, I have been trying to figure out if SO and Mcgriddle could very well be the potential scum team as well. The problem is Jora, S.O. has been very even in his posts and they come across much more town which worries me.

Thats not funny. At all. [They] = [SO and McG] Did you just said that McG is much more town than me?

I really dislike what you just trying to do. It seems you prepearing yourself to the next LyLo. When it would be you against SO. But why are you doing it if you think that I'm scum and therefore it can't be McG + SO? The reason I suspecting you is: such inconsistence very unlikely to come from town-point of view.

[Jora]

^^^ fail

[Jora]

Ha-ha-ha. Buddying to Thian, now? I see. Good tactic. Because I am not the big fan of consistency which demonstrated this "most consistent player". And not the big fan of his questions either.
Also, nice slip: "scum_ _hunted" I Loled.

Your main point againt me is "soft-claiming yet still alive".
First - was not softclaiming. I still don't see the point in claiming PR that early.
Second, even if I would softclaimed it was more beneficial to scum to block me, since they knew that another role should exist.
Third, since I sure that scum is you and you think that I softclaimed - see the second point. It explains everything, McRoleblocker.

[Jora]

You still representing me as "the bad guy" who distruct and bla-bla-bla. It's more about your fault. You don't even made an apology for all that lies and misreps you had done.
Which of my post was distructing? All I had done is stated my case and answered questions. SO and sigma - they just not here atm. They would not came out immediately as soon as you tell them to. It seems to me you just want to keep the last word in any discussion. Ok - you get it, just don't misrep anymore.

Now, I would be patiently wait for others.

[Jora]

I hate you. You are so annoying. Yet you not saying the most important thing. In fact the only thing that matters now:

whom do you yourself

picking from {me, McG}.

[Jora]

Just find what the Red Herring means. "baffle them with bullshit". So tell me please, where exactly did I posted bullshit recently? The answer is - I had not.
I see your amount of posting is bigger then mine. But amount of content - is much lower. I am not gonna call all of it bullshit, but it very long and quite unhelpful.
As I see things are clear and simple: each player from {You, SO, sigma}(scum + two townies) shoud decide whom to vote from {me, McG}(scum+townie) - only two options switch.
If you scared (or pretending to be scared) to vote just make a pseudo vote - like this:

vote }|{opa

or 1)your FoS already means it?
You talking much, but your position is quite uncertain. 2)This "S.O to me his posts are coming out townish" means you have a townread on SO?
I don't get the importance of your "Final Vote count of day one" thing. You had repeated it many times for some reason. Both scums can be on my wagon or not, or i myself could be scum - it's too many optons. In fact I don't recall that from simple looking at the final votecout someone ever caught the scum.
One thing is true: it better for us to hear from McG about his position on all the players, or at least an answer on this:

Alrigh Mcgriddlet, so if scum is in jora. Which one is trying to Bus Jora to look townie? Sigma? S.O ?

@ Thian - answer to numerated questions ( 1) and 2) - it helps to avoid big quote thing), please.

@ SO

why do you mentioned all these people: "brother, ICEninja, SpyreX, Alex Steiner, RayFrost"?

The list of people was just a reference to an older game of McGriddle's that he's now responded to.

What exactly is this game, could I get a link, please? Thanks.

[Jora]

Oh, really?

I had collected all about McG. I have a huge case on him:
43, 45, 47, 50,
Scumtells from meta: 54
57, 62
D2: He doesn't bother reading the thread, he doesn't bother making a cases.

[Jora]

Also, this:

Look guys, it's fairly obvious }|{ Opa is scum. He soft-claimed yesterday, and should have been NK'd because of it, but instead he is still alive and lost a completely random piece of town. In the books, "Jora" is scum.

McGriddle, correct me if I'm wrong, but these are your points on }|{opa:
- soft-claiming yet still alive (ISO 29)

That [retty much covers it S.O. and as for the busing thing, don't know,

we'll cross that bridge once we get there

.

Also "answer" to Thian's question ^^^

I never said anything about you being suspicious because you are alive

No comments.

[Jora]

Leaving someone in the game who is town but has been portrayed and acted as scummy as possible to obtain an easy and obvious lynch.

Ok, I get it. But I tend to disagree. I wasn't playing so bad. But, since I don't know your alignment/motivation I will leave it untill after game discussion.

[Jora]

You are distancing yourself from jora quite nicely by this back and forth debate.

I think it's quite stupid for town (i.e. this is the reason why i don't think you town) to think that both of McG and me could be scums and yet to vote/FoS me in LyLo. Because, McG by no means looks townier, therefore he's objectively scummier. I mean you never said any good reason why you preferring in LyLo me-scum over him-scum.

[Jora]

In addition I have to ask my question again:
@ Thian: This yours "S.O to me his posts are coming out townish" means you have a townread on SO?

[Jora]

To make things clear: I'm asking because I still in doubts. I have McG + SO as very strong probability. And I want to figure it out now, because I know McG - scum and if I win this LyLo I will be killed anyways.

I had some town reads on you, and still have, despite of your constant attacks on me. I see how you can be tunneled on me, because you see that it's only you and me on ToD's final votecount. I hope you understand before it would be too late that this is not a good tell at all - scums can vote for one person (especially if that person maked posts like this when about to find out that ToD was town).

I see you thinking in good direction about SO+McG:

Mcgriddle could very well fit perfect lurker scum day one and then S.O saying, you better pick up your game day 2 and onward.

I feel it in very similar way. Look closer at his 1st D2 post. - Especially suspicious his "SIDENOTE: ..." & "Today, especially McGriddle." words. Looks like he missed the quick topic conversation with McG and explaining him what he wants.

[Jora]

Follow me on this: (My reasoning behind Opa being such obv scum). Opa is a Mafia Goon. His partner is also a Mafia Goon. They both know the setup is 2 Mafia and 1 PR. Either a doctor or a cop. (...) The next day, after discussing strategy with his partner, decides to claim VT

for fear that the PR is a cop and investigated him

. I called him out on the lie, and ever since he has been grasping at straws, putting words in my mouth, and just genuinely lying to try to get people on my wagon. All it takes is one vote on me for his partner to hammer.

*facepalm* This is D3 and it's LyLo. No one cop or even doc (compos mentis) would keep his role in secret.

Where did I put a words in your mouth? I recall only one episode and that was in D1, you piece of liar. And even that was just you said something unintelligible. In fact it is quite exact sounds now, don't you think? Because

you want me being lynched

.

However you did put a word in everyone's mouth.

You DID soft claim and

everyone

here knows it already.

Softclaim - it's when player says that he has PR, but he not willing to tell who is he - cop or doc.

I just refused to claim.

The part "3)..." what you quoted "as a proof of lie" was in fact an answer to this:

Could you please give reasoning to why you wouldn't reveal your role as VT or Cop/Doc? (If you can't give reasoning for both, just say so and don't do it for either)

You see - someone get it right:

I see where you're coming from about the PR; I think it's just a matter of interpretation. I read it as 'I refuse to claim, because if I was a PR, there would be no point claiming this early'.

Yes, my bad I put these items 1)2)3)4) without filtering them into separate probabilities when I'm VT and what if I'm PR - I was thinking that it's prettty clear what reasons correspond to what case.


Also about your WIFOM argument - I Loled. IAI was protecting you because he seen you as an easy lynch, buuuuut he was not willing to protect you forever though.

Thanks Sigma, this is exactly how I felt and was looking for confirmation on it. With that said, is Thian trying to protect teammate McGriddle, or does he believe that McGriddle was really offering himself up. My gut tells me the latter, but if McGriddle flips scum, it is something to keep an eye on re: Thian.
(...)

If I have to move my vote, it will be moved to McGriddle.

For 2 reasons, 1 I will mention later in the game because revealing now will probably be more beneficial to scum, but the other reason involves his refusal to play D1. #2 is a combination of it being scummy as well as being a policy lynch. My gut still feels town on you McGriddle, but just because you play this way most games does not make it acceptable. Esp in a newbie game where we are trying to teach these newer guys how to play.

Bolded - you just lied again (I'm tired of it, really):

he[IAI] was leaning towards voting }|{Opa

[Jora]

Obv scum so obv. McG, I start to wondering what your IQ score is? It should be huge to sell others all this crap what you are saying.

IC thing on (sorry Thian, i doing your job - i know):
PR in most of setups, esp. in newb games, should always claim at the LyLo. Even if it can be another LyLo ahead. In fact the sooner role claims the bigger trust it earns. Because such thing as fakeclaim exist and townies. So in a perfect game the setup should be revealed (via claims/death) to town at exact same moment as scums themselfs gets it. Because if at least one townie get fooled by scums it would fail all town. So LyLo is obv not a good time for any secrets.

Hint

= Breadcrumb, and the only point of making it - because they

are not obvious

. When the claim time come it used to verify that crumber is indeed the role that he claim.
Soft-claim =

Claim

, it is when everybody gets it right. It is not a hint - it's like "I claim bla-bla-bla" without any possibilities for wrong interpretations.
IC off.

I have no idea what is this "obv hint" means and what is the point for somebody (esp for me) to do it. So get off.

[Jora]

Oh, I see... you an idiot. That explains it all.... UNVOTE:








































































Nice try. I DONT BUY IT. VOTE: McGriddle.

[Jora]

Happy scumday to you, Supreme Overlord!

@ Sigma if you will appear, vote please before you get gone again for next 3 days. Because this time it's of no use to wait untill the deadline, am I right?

[Jora]

McG - you suck. I hate you.
Scums? WTF? What was the point for waiting all that rl days? *facepalm* you could vote McG at any time - all be just like it happen.
ToD - shut up, you was scummy.

[Jora]

Jora: I don't think there is much to say, other than. The fact that you were a very emotional player led you to throw fingers, the more people debated with you, the worse it became because instead of thinking rationally, you got upset and targetted people based on them being "annoying" or you "disliked" during the game. This was a curse and a saving grace because at the end the more I thought about it. you were right. Why would scum be throwing around fingers like you did. Everyone practically saw you as scum in the game. I didn't like you throwing your vote down so quickly on the final day. you were so enraged and upset at people, it almost felt that you were personally being affected by the game. throwing down that vote was what cost the game, instead of FoS'ing.


I am: Again same thing you did really well as well.

Shut up, you too. You was part of the cancer like McG was too. You was playing horribly, buuuuut where I voted you? I still have 50/50 you vs SO chances. Also, my reads was very similar to IAI reads, so you piece of hypocrite. Also it was you who messed up my play - you did all you can to annoy me and noise the thread with crap - to it was very very hard to stay calm whan you constantly was saying bullshit-like "you bad, you bad" an make stupidiest post with stupidiest questions full of inconsistency and lack of reading.

This time town fail, because of 40% obv town sancho - modkill, 30% - McG, 20% - Thian, 10% - ToD.

[Jora]

Also, McG: "

Wins/Losses - 15/99

". Thats more like it.

[Jora]

@ Thian: Well lets go into actions if you want it. The truth is: it was you who had tunneled on me. And you was trying to lynch me because of it. Even worse - you had started actively misreping me and doing very very strange cases, like this.
Where did you find any rage voting from me? If you think that I was suspecting you or McG because of rage - ha- ha -ha. It's your problem, buddy. See:

I am leaning towards McG and Thian as scum, which probably means it is Iopa and Sigma knowing how bad my reads were this game.

Another reason I think you failed town is that you was defending McG. It had helped scums very much.

Thian - See Day 1 claims and lynch. Also, his buddying/protection of McGriddle and the lack of a concrete stance on anyone in particular despite all his 'questioning and scumhunting'. The reasons I'm not voting him are }|{opa's vote on McGriddle and Thian's links to McGriddle.

Look how would be right to deal with McG:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p3030434

Scums had used all your mistakes to put a nail on towns coffin. While me was good - I had survived (Yes. It's weakness I've got. Nothing can do with it.), attracted both roleblocks, lynched whomever I wanted. If we had a PR, or if I could get McG lynched on D2 instead of modkill... all will be different then. And even your particularly bad play could not intervene much in that case.

[Jora]

find ways to grow and learn in the game

LMAO,
you yourself need to grow up a little before start talking like this.

[Jora]

YES!



































































Nevermid. Sometimes an ass. Peace? <3