Newbie 1080 -- Game over

[Hiraki]

/confirm

I'll make IC notes once the game begins.

[Hiraki]

Hello everyone, I'm your helpful IC, Hiraki.

Let's start this game with a first question. Usually ICs will start out with 1-3, but I like this one for the moment. It'd really help if everyone answered this question.

1) What's your experience with mafia(Number of Games)? If you are a real true newbie, then welcome aboard!

Being your IC, I must also give you some tips on how to do well in the world of mafia.

1.

Don't Lurk.

Lurking is the inactivity of a person to do anything. It can be classified as Active, or just Lurking. Active Lurking is primarily found as scummy. This is when a person submits posts that are random, and really have nothing to do with the game. Lurking is when a player doesn't post at all, and usually posts to avoid prods. Prods are checks given by the mod, in this case Nobody_Special, in order to make sure that a certain player is playing the game, and not being inactive. You don't want to be prodded. In the case that you're prodded and the mod gets no response, you'll be replaced. You don't want to be replaced either.

Basically, here's the tl;dr version. If you want to do good in mafia, you should submit posts that have things to do with the game, and not things that are random. To deduce this logically, if you're playing Monopoly, you wouldn't randomly say that the other person has a nice face in order to make a trade.

2.

Don't self vote.

Unless your role specifically shows some good in self-voting (Hunter, Vengeful Townie), you should

never

self-vote. In this game, there should be no reason that anyone should self-vote, except for reasons of irony and/or humor. A little note here, some people find self-voting to be applicable to a policy lynch. A policy lynch is when a person has a policy to lynch one person based off of what he or she has done. Per se, self-votting. If you want to be safe, just don't do it. It's like drugs!

3.

Read the rules

This is more for the people, like me, who like to submits posts with images. Some mods do not tolerate this and it will lead to a modkill. A modkill is when a person is killed by the mod personally and their role is changed, well most of the time, to a neutral survivor. Doing this will get you on the mod's bad side, and probably on other people's bad side for ignoring the rules. To avoid this...well...um...read the rules.

4.

Do things logically

If you are town, you should not claim Cop, when you are not Cop. If you're scum, then perhaps you should when the time is right. However, if something doesn't fit logically, it's probably not right. For example, if a FakeCop(PersonC) gets a guilty on Person A, but Person A was already cleared by the dead doctor(Person B), then it's highly logically to say that Person C is most probably scum. There is a chance that Person A is scum, but voting Person A in this situation is highly illogical. If you do vote Person A, there is a fair chance that you're scum, or that you'll be lynched tomorrow if Person C is town or scum. In any case, do things logically. If it doesn't make sense in the real world, it doesn't make sense on the internet.

5.

Do not claim your role until it is essentially needed

If I press "Preview" on the screen right now, and I see an SE telling you all to massclaim, I will be highly frustrated. I've been trying to get examples of how to phrase this rule all day, but most of them have come up to dirty sexual jokes(I'll avoid those in Newbie Games, kkthx), and horrible examples. I'm just going to lay these roles straight on you. If you're scum, you can't claim scum or you'll be lynched. If you're town, you must claim your role, even if you'll still die after it. Dying is not the end of a game. You can still win a game of mafia if you die. You win with your faction, not with yourself. Also, you should only claim when you're at L-1. L-1 is the term that a person only requires one vote to lynch. It is a dangerous place, and even more so in newbie games. This goes to both town and scum, an easy way to get town-cred is to unvote, and allow the person to claim at L-2. So, if a person is at L-1 at least once, they should claim. If a person is at L-1, and I hop in and unvote, I'm going to still require you to claim. Everyone else should too. The reason of putting someone at L-2 to claim, rather than L-1, is the possibility of someone hammering. This could be scum or town. Town will almost always miscount, and scum will almost always say that they miscounted.

tl;dr: Claim when you're at L-1, hope that someone unvotes to L-2, or drops the wagon altogether.

6.

Have fun

In the end, mafia is a game. Games are meant for entertainment. Some people will take the game too hard. To be quite honest, there are some games that I have played and have not had fun in them. However, it's the games that always keep you guessing until the end that are the great ones. If you're not enjoying mafia after 10+ games, then perhaps it's not for you. To be quite serious now, I'd rather play with a person that I get along with that always finds town, rather than scum, rather than the guy that always an asshole and finds scum rather than town.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask me in the thread. If it's role related questions,

ask the mod

. I once had a role that I had to ask the mod about its abilities multiple times. The mod is there to watch the game, and help if needed. Don't be afraid to ask.

Now to start the game, I am going to start by going into the stage of RVS(Random Voting Session/Stage). This is where we all vote for someone randomly. Once you think you've found a reaction that doesn't look like town, or just doesn't feel right for you, go on ahead and accuse the person for what he may have, or may not have done. By doing that, we can start a pressure wagon, and see where that leads us. A pressure wagon, to note, is a wagon that may not be fully for a lynch, but is made to get reactions from a specific person. Reactions are

very

good helpers to find scum.

So, to start, I will VOTE: Shift. He's at the top of the playerlist, and therefore must be scum!!!111!1!1

Also, do not be afraid to go to the Wiki and look up some ways that people scumhunt, or read some other completed games. They can be very helpful for some newbies, and reading games is sometimes very enjoyable as well!

[Hiraki]

EWBOP:(Edit By Way of Posting)

Almost forgot. Another really helpful tip is to get an avatar. I honestly have never memorized someone's tells by faction, but rather by avatar. Avatars are

very

helpful in mafia, and some people also policy lynch if people don't have them. Basically, get an avatar quickly, if you don't have one!

[Hiraki]

Does Bo Know. I need you to answer the question.

[Hiraki]

1) EST
2) At least once, unless nothing is happening.

[Hiraki]

I do think Quilford was getting awfully offensive though...

Isn't RVS all about putting pressure on people you find suspicious?

Yes.

I don't get the points about Jack. Just because he doesn't have reasoning for it, doesn't mean it can't be random.

[Hiraki]

I do think Quilford was getting awfully offensive though...

Isn't RVS all about putting pressure on people you find suspicious?

Yes.

I don't get the points about Jack. Just because he doesn't have reasoning for it, doesn't mean it can't be random.

It's odd to put somebody at L-2 without reason. Also, hi.

Meh. I wouldn't look into it that hard. Perhaps if there was a lynch though.

[Hiraki]

Vote: brundibar

Definitely trying to throw suspicion without any evidence behind it. I've actually used this before as scum

I had never noticed that. Needs some pressure immediately.

Unvote, Vote: brundibar

It just seemed to me that Quilford had been attacking people since he first got in this game, which I suppose is good, but it also makes it look to me as if he's trying to get all the pressure off himself, what with bringing tons of evidence against others and such. I'm not completely sold on voting him yet, just an observation.

Can you explain to me logically why attacking people is more scummy than townie?

[Hiraki]

All I'm saying in regards to Quil is that he came immediately out trying to point the finger at everybody, so that it seems like nobody would try and vote for him, with him being the first to lay out strikes against others.

That doesn't necessarily mean I think he's scum, he could just be playing very offensively. I haven't had enough experience to really tell other's strategies.

However, Bo, you do seem like you're trying to draw a lot from my posts that's trying to make me look suspicious, even though nothing I have said thus far really seems that way to me. Maybe my posts just aren't saying what they need to.`

The reason that you won't call him or anyone else scum shows that you're playing way too cautiously. I'm pretty sure it's because you're scum.

Not to mention,

Removing my RVS, as it looks a bit less suspicious now

Are you saying your RVS vote wasn't random and there was some reasoning behind it? Not to mention, why does your RVS vote look suspicious?

[Hiraki]

VOTE: Hiraki

I suppose maybe if I start voting, you guys will stop attacking me.

That's not the point. Why did you vote me now?

Didn't I say in the first post that you should do things logically or you will be lynched? Where's the logic here? Do you honestly believe that by voting me all the pressure will go away?

[Hiraki]

Alright. I've made my conclusions.

Unvote

Brundi is making newbietown mistakes. If he's scum, then GJ on the cover, because you're really making me doubt myself. For the moment though, we need better pressure on Jack.

Vote: Jack

But I think I am going to place my Vote:martini I don't know if any of you have seen it but it looks like he is lurking. Tell me if I am wrong, that is scummy.

Alright so you're going to place a vote on someone, but you're asking if your scumtell is a legitimate scumtell?

Is something wrong here?

[Hiraki]

Gah couldn't resist.

Jack's post is definitely strange, but it's just as easily pegged as newbie as brundibar's posts are. Difference is that brundibar has made a lot more bad posts.

But um. Just because one newbie makes more bad posts than the other newbie doesn't mean that the newbie making more bad posts is scum.

Defense noted.

[Hiraki]

I like this wagon a lot. Claim please.

[Hiraki]

It's bad logic. It was L-1.

[Hiraki]

I believe that Hiraki means that if Newbie A makes more newbie posts than Newbie B, that doesn't mean that Newbie A is scum. By "bad", I'm under the assumption that means "newbie." Perhaps it would've been better to use different words, Plague/Hiraki?

I don't see newbie posts. I just see bad posts.

[Hiraki]

So, do you still think brundibar is scum? Because from post 100 it looks like you just did an 180.

EWBOP(Edit By Way of Posting): No he's town. It was newbie rage. There's a possibility that he's scum, but we're not not lynching him today.

[Hiraki]

Fine then. You didn't have any other scummy reads? Lurking is quite a weak tell.

[Hiraki]

You can note it. However, from the pressure, I'm 110% sure of townBrundi.

Also, that was my iPod. <____<

I agree with you on everything else though.

[Hiraki]

Y'know. Usually I'd object to a lynch on Page 6, but this really doesn't look bad. Jack is missing the point why I want him dead.

[Hiraki]

Ha. Jack is challenging me. I'll admit that I thought I made a post that isn't here, but now it's go-time. When I get back home, I'm going to show everyone the obv. Jackscum.

[Hiraki]

I'd like to jump in and also point out Hiraki's inconsistent views on brundi as newb or scum. Ill have that summary post up later today when I have time.

Let me clarify. In my scheme of classification, you can't make a newbie post. Newbie is not a faction, so therefore there is no post that is newbie-sided because that's still not a faction. However, in a post, a newbie can show that they're being newbie. Per se, as brundi is doing. Brundi is town. He's newbie-towntelling everywhere.

Here's the part where I prove Jackscum. Because I can do that.

First off, I have my Martini vote assurance. Not to mention, he goes for the lurker rather than the active person. That's mostly scum trying to gain town cred. This is mostly opinion though, so there's no push here.

In ISO#4, Jack states the following.

We are still in the RVS for the most part

However, before this, when talking about me and Martini, he seems to vote Martini for a non-random reason.

Hmm

Next, here's where Jack gets to play his role.

Brundibar is most likely trying to get people to talk just like everyone else is doing.

Explain this.

So you have very little evidence to vote Brundibar, but you vote him anyways.

This is an outright assumption and a total defense of Brundi. I want to say that this makes Jack more town-sided, but this is null because even a blind man could see Brundi was acting scummy.

You said you have use this before as scum, so since you are doing it again does this mean you are scum again?

Misrep, and looking for ways to lynch. This is scum that is scumhunting. Little lesson for everyone here. If someone is making up random stuff in a case just to make people look bad, they're scum. Psst, Jack did this!

Next.

First off I am tired of you guys saying my first few post were fluff when I was answering questions that people had posted in #16- Hiraki asked about experience and #24- the plague asked about time zones and number of post.

I didn't check but I don't actually remember seeing a whole bunch of people saying this. Could you quote some examples for me, to please me?

I was not defending Brundi either, just saying his vote was RSV, you all made good points against Brundi I didn't feel the need to restate the points you guys had already made.

BUT WAIT

So you have very little evidence to vote Brundibar, but you vote him anyways.

You're going to say this isn't a defense?

Ha.

I was not asking if it was a scum tell I know it is a scum tell, I was trying to ask if any of you were seeing the same thing about him that I was, witch was scum lurking.

But you asked if it was a scumtell. I'm not buying this bull if you were asking us if that's what you saw. That's like saying, "Hey guys, he looks like scum, but I'm not really sure". Psst. That's scummy because you're getting others' opinions(COUGH THE TOWN'S COUGH) to base your own opinion. Plus, if you're town and doing that scum could easily lead you to an easy BW vote.

Yeah. Everything else is boring. Hammer please. We're done here.

[Hiraki]

Hiraki, please respond to the questions asked of you in Post #136.

Could nobody hammer before then, please?

Sorry was a bit focused there. The only one standing after that post is the last one so,

Then how else do you find scum? Basically, you're implying that scum make fewer mistakes/bad posts than town. Since both newbie scum and town are equally likely to make more mistakes, that's also implying that even experienced town make more mistakes than scum.

Not really. If someone like Vi and a newbie here were posting in a thread, who would look more like town, even if they were scum?

[Hiraki]

Never played with Vi, so I wouldn't know.

Also, anyone else notice that brundibar practically copied a cople of my summaries? He also left out me, which of course I did as well... Thoughts?

The point wasn't that it was Vi, it was that Vi is a well-known player that is known to be good.

[Hiraki]

I don't want to give up on this fight but it does not matter what I say someone will twist it to look bad or you will say that you can't understand what I am trying to say. When I flip town you guys should take a good look at the people in this wagon cus one of the will turn up scum.

This is what scum says when they realize they can't defend. I'm telling you guys. This is a really fucking juicy lynch.

My vote on Hiraki was not OMGUS

it was me wanting to know what he wanted me dead and the fact that I think he is scum now.

So your vote was for pressure. Hmmzorz.

now you want me dead?? Sounds like scum, why don't you just jump out and push the wagon. scum

This is Jack calling me scum because I called him scum.

THIS IS THE DEFINITION OF AN OMGUS.

I CALLED YOU SCUM.

OMG

YOU CALL ME SCUM BACK.

US

Btw., for all Jack knows, I could've gone on him for pressure, so he's over-reacting like crazy right now.

But guys. Here's the greatest part. I might've put this on the wall, but I honestly can't remember nor have the will to check.

Ha. Jack is challenging me. I'll admit that I thought I made a post that isn't here, but now it's go-time. When I get back home, I'm going to show everyone the obv. Jackscum.

That is funny, I could see someone that is scum saying that.

But wait, didn't you do the same thing, except present a case that's next to piss poor? Sheesh.

[Hiraki]

Martini. It's pretty obvious that Brundi is a newbie. Sorry to spoil that.

Also, it's newbie

town

. Not newbie. Like I said before, newbie isn't a faction.

[Hiraki]

In both cases I'm scum. Whooptedoo.

I don't think you get it. Brunditown is fact. I can't explain it to you, because I've seen more newbies than you have. He's acting like newbietown, not newbiescum. There is no proof on why he's town, I just

know

he's town by experience by comparing his posts with other newbies that flipped town.

[Hiraki]

So you saying something makes it true?

Yes, but it's more comparison rather than fact.

[Hiraki]

Does Bo Know:

There's absolutely no reason to put me at

slightly town

if I was stupid enough to buss. Jack was on Brundi. There's no doubt in my mind that he's town.

However, those two posts were

way

too sketchy for me to pass off.

Vote: Does Bo Know

[Hiraki]

Theplague: What the fuck? Did you honestly vote me because scum didn't target me? Do you think scum want to just walk up my door nor expecting any traps? Y'know. Like Doctors?

[Hiraki]

wait, are you saying he should have called you more scummy because you bussed, or less scummy because you aren't stupid enough to have bussed him?

Let's think about this logically. Why would I reason that someone should call me scummier? Wouldn't I just shut up about it?

Also, kudos for finding that mistake. Not sure why I said that, except that I meant it was about Jack's vote on me, rather than Brundi.

[Hiraki]

I'm not lynching Brundi. He's my pick for town.

Can we compromise on Martini?

Unvote, Vote: Martini

[Hiraki]

Hmmzorz.

Martini is still good for today, but let her post.

After reading Quil's ISO, having extreme doubts about Brundi. I could see a motivation from it.

[Hiraki]

I take what I said about Brundi before. I'm suspecting a frame by killing Quil.

[Hiraki]

UNVOTE: Martini
VOTE: Brundibar

This is good posting by Martini.

Bitch, you did not just break our compromise.

That was mediocre at best. Nothing amazing there.

[Hiraki]

Yeah lolol. So I must be partnered with Brundi.

If it was possible.

[Hiraki]

You may say that, but your posts don't show that.

[Hiraki]

Sorry about that. Something don gone wrong.

I feel bad as an IC for being inactive, but there was nothing I could do. I'll catch up with this now.

[Hiraki]

I actually hate the Moonstruck post. Again, I don't care which dies, I'm convinced that it's Moonstruck/Martini at this point. Brundi is newbie town. If he flips scum, I will cry myself to sleep some day.

Hmm, it seems the last thing quilford talked about was his suspicions about brundibar. maybe hiraki thought brundibar nked quilford to stop him from outing those suspicions? but then thought it maybe was a frame. hiraki?

Exactly. This looks perfect for scum. I like Moonstruck-scum more than Martini-scum for right now.

Unvote, Vote: Moonstruck

Hiraki, has your view of brundi changed in light of these last few posts? Or is martini still your top suspect?

I'm waiting for the scum to BW me, which is impossible, so that I can prove Moonstruck/Martini scum. Brundi is not scum.

[Hiraki]

Can I steal the crying quote for my sig once the game is over?

No, because that's a lie. Real men like myself don't cry, unless asked to.

1.Moonstruck
2.Martini
3.theplague42(gut more than anything. Doubtful, but this is where scum would lie if 1 and 2 aren't scum, which quite frankly isn't possible)

[Hiraki]

AWESOME OMGUS.

Moonstruck dies now.

[Hiraki]

IMO. BTW.

I'm waiting for the scum to BW me, which is impossible, so that I can prove Moonstruck/Martini scum. Brundi is not scum.

3.(Can't think of anyone else, maybe Hiraki)

OH GOD. THIS IS PRICELESS.

[Hiraki]

I've been worried about Shift. Wouldn't mind him being tied with three. I'm ready to get rid of Martini, actually.

[Hiraki]

I meant Martini from the list. Not lynch.

[Hiraki]

Shift's reasoning.

I was basically BWing for information.

[Hiraki]

@Hiraki:Not following... First of all, BW isn't in the Commonly used Abbreviations Wiki, can you tell me what it means? Second, me saying that you could maybe possibly be scum wasn't OMGUS, I thought that before just never said anything cause I'm confident it's either Brundi or Martini, because you really seem to be the most snappy player, and you flip out sometimes, like you just did. I honestly don't care if you think I'm scum or if I end up getting lynched, as long as Brundi gets lynched tomorow.

So long as I'm alive, Brundi will not die. BW is Bandwagon. It's an OMGUS because you could've said any other player, like someone you've actually been suspicious of.

[Hiraki]

I'm still having a hard time with Hiraki's defense of me. Saying you just know somebody is town is a little weird, and I think it's adding scumminess to both of us. However, he is making plenty of good points otherwise to warrant town cred with me.

Noob scum would never say this, nor any scum really. Brundi is 6328% town.

[Hiraki]

EH.

THE LAST SENTENCE.

I NEED THIS LYNCH.

[Hiraki]

Here's a tip if you do flip town.

You should always be confident in your actions, unless you find fault in them. You need to be lynched now.

[Hiraki]

You're never confident on your own reasoning however. If you're just going to sheep people, then why bother to play the game? You're just playing follow the leader at this point.

[Hiraki]

Basically what Bo said is true.

[Hiraki]

Someone hammer this.

Seriously. I was right D1, and I have that same feeling now.

[Hiraki]

NO.

[Hiraki]

Could we at least wait till DBK posts about mine and Jack Forman's ISOs, I'm curious as to what he has to say and I'd like to be able to respond(can't if I'm dead). Feel free to hammer after that. Hiraki, I'd like to know what you're feeling tomorrow when I flip Vanilla Townie.

If you do flip VT, I'll feel the same. You're scummy, and you've admitted to it.

NO.

???

I'm suggesting that brundibar or martini hammer. Me, you, and DBK are voting for Moon, Shift is V/LA, and I don't see Moonstruck self-hammering. I'm confused as to what you're saying "

NO.

" to.

Oh, I thought you wanted me to switch. My bad.

[Hiraki]

From this, it looks like Moon is able to buss effectively.

Also, how can Moon attack but then find arguments? Didn't she already--

Fuck. Fine. I'll read them.

[Hiraki]

Oh, oh God. My confidence in ultra-town DBK was just shot. Hiraki, I'd specifically like your opinion on this as well.

I waited a while for reactions. Plague is obv. town now. DBK is really on the edge now. If you all can't stand lynching Moonstruck, I'm good for lynching DBK now.

Hi, Plague! My fourth reason isn't ridiculous, as it provides the fact that if Brundi is town, we're not doomed to lose as town. Yes, of course, my second reason is invalid. Just thought it would get a point across.

No shit sherlock. If we lynch anyone now, that isn't scum, town can't lose. We have Mislynches left. Also, the wording of this is a bit iffy. I could totally see "we're not doomed to lose as town" as a scum trying to rephrase his post to not look like a scumslip. Small tell for now. Also, why would you ever agree that your second reason was invalid? Getting a point across is like saying I can smack a tennis ball with a racket, and guess what? IT'LL GO IN THE WAY THAT I HIT IT. AH HA!

The first one is actually invalid as well; again, to get a point across. The third one probably just isn't worded right. What I meant was that Shift has been incredibly confident in Brundi's being town throughout the majority of the game. However, if Brundi is town like Hiraki entirely believes, why was Shift's confidence so large that he kept the vote on Brundi as "#1 scum suspect" even though Jack was the wagon, and Jack was scum? Something about that makes me uncomfortable.

Again, racket tennis ball. The third one is a bit screwy now. You're basing that we should lynch off of opinion on why people are scummy. Bascially, you're using Brundi as a test lynch in basis for other lynches. The funny part is, is that you are not involved in these equations, and therefore you're looking to lynch everyone but yourself. Yes, I realize the point is that you stay alive to help your faction, but this looks too much like opportunstic scum here.

I want to make sure we have at least as many suspects as days left because of this:

So, what you're saying is, is that now you're going to re-examine everyone because you're not sure of your scumreads? What?

Fuck. I don't care about a D4 with no real lynches when we start. It's D2 damnit, and we're focusing on D2. Not D4.

Well, as far as the "Brundi play" I made, it was solely the fact that I wasn't lynching someone for reasons I already mentioned. But I had a reason to not vote Brundi, hence the bolded but later in the statement.

Um. So this confirms my theory that you're wanting to lynch Brundi to test what he'll flip, right?

And I have the same opinion about Hiraki's town status, along with the fact that he was on the start of the wagon that lynched Jack. I think Hiraki's the most-confirmed town at this point.

Welp. I'll be alive tomorrow fellahs.

Jack is calling moonstruck town because they disagree on a scumtell? seems strange.

Jack realized that it looked like a town v/s town argument. He tried to play that by calling Moontown. Then again, this could be a soft scum defense.

I don't really care though.

[Hiraki]

True, I was talking more about the first post.

...

Which you hadn't touched.

Le soupir. Let's switch then, yah?

Yah.

Unvote, Vote: DBK

[Hiraki]

Scum that isn't sure if want to buss on D1. More convincing to me really.

[Hiraki]

YES. THIS WAGON. BEAUTIFUL.

COME CHILDREN. THE SPRINGTIME OF YOUTH IS ERRUPTING!

[Hiraki]

@martini
Claiming your idea is crazy and admitting that you're scummy is often a weak attempt to seem town. If it comes under fire, then he can just say "well, I did say it was a crazy idea." IIRC, I already said this regarding brundi I believe.

This.

The tennis analogy was pretty bad. But here's the point. If I do something, and I know the circumstances of my action, then what is the point of labeling it if it's obvious?

[Hiraki]

DBK. That post has no relation, unless you're saying that I'm hard to understand. In which case, I'm only hard to understand in that particular circumstance.

[Hiraki]

I suggest a Prod Check tomorrow. I have no reasonable topics to keep this game flowing. I'm like really sure of DBKscum.

[Hiraki]

I suggest a Prod Check tomorrow. I have no reasonable topics to keep this game flowing. I'm like really sure of DBKscum.

K.

Here's my post so I don't get prodded. I'd also hate for the person that replaces me to be lynched almost instantly.

As an IC Note, Prodding just means the Mod gives you a little poke so that they check you're not inactive. If you don't do anything after the requested time the prod is, then you're replaced.

[Hiraki]

I will

Vote: Brundibar

to put him on L-1 as well. If for an incredibly insane reason somebody actually hammers him instead and he flips town, I will further accept the idea that I should be lynched.

I feel like this is the friendliest OMGUS I've ever seen. I don't really feel like it makes Bo more suspicious, it just felt like a very passive move. I feel like he's slowly starting to show more and more newbtown tendencies though. I'm not going to unvote though, because I feel like we need the pressure now.

Agreed, but it's bad for the reason that DBK made a horrible case on Brundi and still wants to lynch him, even after we showed him that his case was quite pitiful. This is the last resort of scum.

[Hiraki]

I will

Vote: Brundibar

to put him on L-1 as well. If for an incredibly insane reason somebody actually hammers him instead and he flips town, I will further accept the idea that I should be lynched.

After thinking about this, my views on it have changed. If Bo were really town, why would he try and cast a vote on somebody else, only after faced with possibly being lynched, and not when he thought the vote could help? However, I could see this as a scum move to try and get my lynched. I feel a lot safer in my vote now.

I kinda already said this with saying it's his scum last resort.

[Hiraki]

DBK, you still haven't touched our points on why your Brundi vote is beyond pitiful.

[Hiraki]

very little time to post, but also nothing to really comment on.
So I'm looking forward to hearing from mothrax.

I'm having a hard time wondering why your vote isn't on me, actually.

very simple, because you're already at L-1 and I wanted to wait for mothrax to catch up to the game/express his opinions.

now where did moonstruck go?

Not so simple. You've had enough evidence to carry on a vote before Shift was even

prodded.

I wasn't even L-1 then, so that vote actually would've been safer than the situation we're in now. So why didn't you vote then, either?

Interesting. This is a good point.

I'll hold onto this tomorrow if you flip town, which you won't but w/e.

[Hiraki]

I wasn't even L-1 then, so that vote actually would've been safer than the situation we're in now.

wait, what do you mean with the safer part?

He means that if you voted him then, so I believe, there wouldn't be doubts on whether or not you were town/scum.

[Hiraki]

Hmmzorz.

DBK is actually scumhunting.

ARGH.

WE LYNCH YOU D3.

Unvote, Vote: Martini

[Hiraki]

I'm still not caught up but I have read enough to know that my vote should be:

Vote Martini

Avoiding suspicion et all. Real case will come later unless insee something that drastically changes my mind.

Also, can someone please give me a tl;dr version of the case on DBK, cause I don't see it.

You..can't...see...a..case on someone who CALLS THEIR SCUMTELLS USELESS AND VOTES THE PERSON THAT THEY REALIZE ISN'T SCUMMY AFTER THEY SAY ISN'T?

WAT

[Hiraki]

I'm 99% sure that'

[Hiraki]

EWBOP: I suck and his bad buttons. Anyway, I thought it was L-1, but it wasn't.

[Hiraki]

I've come to learn that Hiraki isn't going to change unless someone makes a good point. Nothing's happening with Bo, so I'm trying to get pressure on Martini, and then seeing what to do from there. Yes, my vote is basically for pressure. In my mind Bo is still scummiest, but I want to hear what Martini is thinking and hope that the pressure helps.

Key lesson. If someone says, "This scum is scum because GO" you shouldn't change your vote. Good points are convincing and therefore are the points that change votes.

[Hiraki]

Not exactly sure what to do. I don't like brundi's flip-flopping, but then again there's been three L-1 wagons today. (I think Moon's was)

Agreed. I'm starting to doubt myself on Brundi, but he's at leaning town/null. Nothing major.

So yeah. DBK is back to obv town. He was so cool and collected, simultaneously defending himself and hunting still. Crazy stuff. I hope to God that I'm never in a game where you're scum....

Ehhh no. DBK is still leaning scum. You can't forget the past, even if it was a long time ago.

[Hiraki]

Hmmzorz. I'm back to square one of today.

Let's finish this bitch.

[Hiraki]

Hmmzorz. I'm back to square one of today.

Let's finish this bitch.

I'm guessing this relates to your previous vote on Martini?

Yes. Btw, just to clarify. By bitch, I meant game, not if Martini is a woman. I just spotted that now and found it a bit out of my range of offensiveness. I didn't really like it. Sorry if someone saw it a different way.

[Hiraki]

Am I voting Martini?

[Hiraki]

Am I voting Martini?

Um...are you being serious? Yes, you are voting Martini. And if you knew that already, then that shows your confidence in Martini-scum.

So, you're asking this question...because?

[Hiraki]

Nah. Martini's scum.

[Hiraki]

AAAAAAAAAND THAT'S GAME!

Perfect win! LOVE YOU GUYS

(sorry Nobody, I just had to)

See Bo?

You

had

to make me doubt myself.

Actually, I was planning on hardcore pressuring Plague tomorrow, just because it got ridiculous how good his reads were, then I noticed that I posted sometimes after he did. Wasn't sure really.

You can all thank me now for being a perfect IC.

[Hiraki]

EWBOP:

I did actually read up to page 9 or so, and was planning on completing my read through for tomorrow. One thing is certain, DBK was obvtown and anyone saying otherwise... well...

Also: Quill, not sure how NS will react, but usually not a good idea...
All: Never celebrate untill the mod confirms it is over. As far as I am concerned it is twilight.

Nah. NS is cool. He's not going to care

that

much.

As far as I'm concerned, Quill wouldn't risk his reputation to come prancing around in here, unless he was 100% sure that the game was over.

[Hiraki]

Hiraki, FWIW, you and plague both were my top two scumreads after martini, at least at first glance (plauge more than you)

And your reasoning for this?

I'm intriged.

[Hiraki]

Actually, I was planning on hardcore pressuring Plague tomorrow, just because it got ridiculous how good his reads were, then I noticed that I posted sometimes after he did. Wasn't sure really.

What happened to lynching me D3?

Because I realized that you made a town slip.

You because of your waffling and going back and forth a lot. You were also really quick to shift from brundiscum to brundiobvtown when I didn't really see it.

The only time I waffled a little was the end of D2. I switched from Martini, Moon, DBK, and back to Martini.

I knew what I was doing.

Also, the second point is objective and stupid.

Plague mainly for one comment made early D2 (hiraki isn't dead, hiraki is IC, therefore hiraki must be scum) then backing off when no one else followed.

That's horrendous. Not only did Plague state that he was probably wrong, he didn't back down because no one followed him.

If you're town and you're on a wagon by yourself, with no support. You have to think to yourself how useful you're being, and if this person is really scum. Because you're not town alone, and not everyone in the game is stupid, you're probably wrong and/or stupid. Therefore, taking a vote off is not scummy in anyway. Putting votes on? Well, that's where you get the good stuff.

[Hiraki]

It wasn't really specific reads. It was more the reads being right a good amount of tine. Not really scummy, but creepy enough to be scummy.