Newbie 1677 (Game Over)
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MochaMan Goon
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MochaMan Goon
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In post 15, Ruku wrote:@MochaMan, is that just the 1 game or have you played before under different accounts?
Just the 1 game on here, quite a few on scumhunt when it was up, and a ton of tabletop mafia.-
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MochaMan Goon
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MochaMan Goon
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In post 28, Natsu wrote:Yeah, lol. I think the mafia count was around 30 players. Are those mega-games not a thing here?
Jeez. How long do those games usually last? I could imagine a whole year.-
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MochaMan Goon
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MochaMan Goon
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In post 29, mykonian wrote:Good catch, sort of.
I like Ruku for scum, for different reasons. RVS is already noncommital, but Ruku even then shifts responsibility away from him for his vote to a rng generator. That's a worrying habit to have.
vote Ruku
Seems a bit opportunistic, but at the same time there isn't a whole lot to go off on at page 1. Using an rng for rvs seems like something I'd do too.
Since my vote is already on you I might as well keep it there.-
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MochaMan Goon
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In post 37, mykonian wrote:MochaMan wrote:In post 29, mykonian wrote:Good catch, sort of.
I like Ruku for scum, for different reasons. RVS is already noncommital, but Ruku even then shifts responsibility away from him for his vote to a rng generator. That's a worrying habit to have.
vote Ruku
Seems a bit opportunistic, but at the same time there isn't a whole lot to go off on at page 1. Using an rng for rvs seems like something I'd do too.
And now you know why you shouldn't!
The RVS stage is about making silly reasons then people responding to your silly reasons and that somehow spirals out of control till you have real stuff to discuss. How is anyone going to talk about your silly reasons if it was "well the dice said so". It used to be more prevalent that people did roll dice, but this is the reason why it has pretty much died out now. The RNG vote gave town no benefit, makes some sense from a scum motivation, it became a scumtell of sorts.
We shouldn't let ruku get away with murder here!
Hm. Well did it really? I mean "Because rng said so" might not give the town any benefit, but I can't see it being scum motivated.
And clearly with the discussion we're having now is helping to push the game forward. (but that's beside the point)
To say that it's harder to reply to "Because rng said so" than it is to "I blame Canada!!" would be false imo.
The only scum motivation (I can see from this) is to delay actual discussion.
Can you honestly say that Ruku had a scum intent to delay the game with his "It was rng" despite him being more active compared to some of the other players?
Maybe the one we shouldn't let get away is you!
But I have no reason not to believe you, so I'll keep what you said in mind for future games.-
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MochaMan Goon
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In post 37, mykonian wrote:It used to be more prevalent that people did roll dice
Wait did people who did roll dice turn out to be mafia more often than not?-
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MochaMan Goon
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In post 40, mykonian wrote:It's a bit better than just a habit for the scum's side. And again, we don't need it to be a 100% tell. 51% will do.
Fair enough, you make a good point. I'll still be keeping an eye on you Mr.IC.
On the other hand:
UNVOTE:
VOTE: jachawk
There should be plenty of material to comment on and not just make a random vote. Come out and play-
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MochaMan Goon
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In post 44, Natsu wrote:How many games have you read through?
I've skimmed over quite a few games to get a handle of how some of the people that are in my games play and how to play myself.
I can't give you an exact number here, but probably somewhere around 20.-
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MochaMan Goon
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In post 45, jachawk wrote:@Natsu : I have not read through any game so far, but seems like a good idea
One thing I wanted to point out is that mykonian seems to be a bit too eager to lynch ruku. I am not really convinced that using a RNG suggests scum intent, certainly not enough to lynch somebody.
I sense a fair bit of conviction when Mykonian says
We shouldn't let ruku get away with murder here!
I think only scum would have enough information to act with such confidence. Even though using an RNG does not give the town much, it is not right to expect much from a random vote and use it as a reason to vote somebody.
Though mykonian puts up a good argument later, I feel he acted with opportunistic scum intent earlier.
So,
UNVOTE:
VOTE: mykonian
I don't know if anyone votes on page 2 with intent for a lynch (at least I don't). I think it's mostly for getting reactions.-
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MochaMan Goon
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In post 42, tojam2 wrote:@Natsu: Yes, you are too poorly uninformed, so read the wiki!!! And I don't want to waste the first day getting killed by the scum trying to fool you all, yes Natsu, I'm pointing the finger at you, you literally jumped on a bandwagon against me when you are 'too uninformed to handle' and claim I'm trying to skip the RVS, how do you even know what that means if you're not informed well enough, I've been playing since before Christmas and know less than you!!
Vote:Natsu
@MochaMan This is my 3rd game on this site, however I have had some impeccable rounds of TIMV where I as detective have correctly chosen who to lynch 4/5 times, I have played over 150 rounds through all 3 classes I think.
TIMV?
I can't tell if this OMGUS is indicative of a noob mindset or a scum mindset, but I'm certain it's one of the two.
For the time being, UNVOTE:-
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MochaMan Goon
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In post 51, jachawk wrote:But still, advertising that you intend to change your vote later will probably lead to less than honest reactions, slowing the game down.
That isn't what I intended, I just wanted to share my thoughts.-
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MochaMan Goon
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In post 29, mykonian wrote:Theory discussion isn't everything, but at least it's a discussion of sorts!
@mykonian (or anyone else who wants to answer), I've almost finished skimming through other peoples games, and trying to look at their MOs. Would it be appropriate to mention something like "(user) has played like this before in previous games." or are outside games not for discussion?-
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MochaMan Goon
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In post 61, tojam2 wrote:To post 49:
Quote 1: Over 40% of the players on what is supposed to be a newbie game have already played 3 games on this site, this is my 3rd and from the past experience of my 2 games, the newbs always follow lead of the SEs, I suppose I get to exploit that when I complete this game though.
Quote 2: so you're telling me you trust a newb to do reads?
TIMV stands for Trouble in Mineville, it's a Mafia game on Minecraft, the rules on organised lynches are relaxed so 1 person can take out any number of people at once.
I have no idea what RVS and OMGUS stand for, if someone could explain that it would be useful.
Ruku, I started at L-1, what do you mean getting to L-1 this early?
Also, good point about hawkleader, although backing me up is non-alignment indicative if I am town (which I am as you'll find out if you vote me off).
In post 62, tojam2 wrote:I'm going to assume that now accusations are flying, RVS (whatever that is) is over.-
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MochaMan Goon
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Whoops misclicked.
Whether or not someone is a newb shouldn't affect the validity of their claims. To answer like this rather than answer what Ruku asked of you is incredibly scummy.
TIMV stands for Trouble in Mineville, it's a Mafia game on Minecraft, the rules on organised lynches are relaxed so 1 person can take out any number of people at once.
I have no idea what RVS and OMGUS stand for, if someone could explain that it would be useful.
Thanks
RVS
OMGUS
Yeah, it'd be safe to assume so.In post 62, tojam2 wrote:I'm going to assume that now accusations are flying, RVS (whatever that is) is over.-
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MochaMan Goon
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In post 60, Ruku wrote:This strikes me as odd, as it was clearly spoke about earlier on the day. This is could be Mafia fishing for PRs.
Hawkleader is leaning scummier and I really didn't like that post.
Woah I completely over looked the asking for a claim. Good eye.
Someone hasn't even joined the game yet and you're asking for a claim?
VOTE: hawkleader3-
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MochaMan Goon
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In post 61, tojam2 wrote:Ruku, I started at L-1, what do you mean getting to L-1 this early?
L-X means the amount of votes you are away from a lynch, where X is the number of votes required for a hammer.
There are 5 votes required a vote for a lynch right now.
You were at 4 votes, hence L-1.
Now you have 3 people voting for you, so you are at L-2.
Wiki link: L-1-
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MochaMan Goon
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In post 70, mykonian wrote:I don't really mind how the tojam wagon formed
In post 75, mykonian wrote:I'm a bit worried about the wagon on him and how easy it came to be.
Would you mind reiteratng, mykonian?-
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MochaMan Goon
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In post 80, hawkleader3 wrote:Does he know something about tojam2 and is trying to move the wagon off him? His vote to put him at L-1 seems contradictory if they were a scum team unless he knew someone would unvote or ask to claim.
jachawk put him at L-1, not me.
I would love to assume they are a scum team, but it isn't that easy.
IMO thinking about scumteams when it isn't MYLO is pretty useless, especially when it's day 1 and not everyone has joined yet.-
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MochaMan Goon
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In post 82, MochaMan wrote:IMO thinking about scumteams when it isn't MYLOor there isn't a confirmed mafia yetis pretty useless, especially when it's day 1 and not everyone has joined yet.
EBWOP-
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In post 85, PhantomCobalt wrote:is asking too many questions
This is the first I've heard of it being a bad thing.-
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Alright, since this game is moving relatively slow, I figure I may as well make a defence.
he isnt taking any stances
In post 65, MochaMan wrote:In post 60, Ruku wrote:This strikes me as odd, as it was clearly spoke about earlier on the day. This is could be Mafia fishing for PRs.
Hawkleader is leaning scummier and I really didn't like that post.
Woah I completely over looked the asking for a claim. Good eye.
Someone hasn't even joined the game yet and you're asking for a claim?
VOTE: hawkleader3
Unless you're talking about read lists and such, which I don't like doing.
his little content.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... rt_order=d
Even if half my posts were fluff, I'd still be sitting in second for amount of posts.
maybe its because he isnt taking any stances and is asking too many questions for his little content.
In what case (if any), would asking questions be beneficial as a mafia?-
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MochaMan Goon
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In post 93, PhantomCobalt wrote:Asking questions isn't as beneficial to the town as contributing your ideas and thought processes. It does benefit the town a little, but it makes mafia look town. I'm not saying town can't ask questions, but you did admit half your posts are fluff. That isn't good.
In post 92, MochaMan wrote:
half my posts were fluff, I'd still be sitting in second for amount of posts.Even if
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MochaMan Goon
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In post 96, PhantomCobalt wrote:Mocha your defense is trash.
Where are you trying to go with that post?-
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MochaMan Goon
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In post 93, PhantomCobalt wrote:Asking questions isn't as beneficial to the town as contributing your ideas and thought processes. It does benefit the town a little, but it makes mafia look town.
The notion that asking too many questions is scummy because it can make the mafia look like town is ridiculous.-
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MochaMan Goon
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In post 102, tojam2 wrote:MochaMan - PC makes a good comment about too many questions,
Ugh, I always forget to look over my posts once I'm finished with them.
EBWOP-
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MochaMan Goon
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In post 99, PhantomCobalt wrote:@Mocha I was pointing your defense is invalid. Try again please!
I'm open to answering questions, but "Try again!" isn't going to cut it.-
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MochaMan Goon
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In post 110, PhantomCobalt wrote:If I could we found out early d1 like you, I would try to make some effort to save myself.
What?-
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MochaMan Goon
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PhantomCobalt -
In post 96, PhantomCobalt wrote:Mocha your defense is trash.
After this I was actually townreading PC mainly because in a town mindset, their frustrations are usually less restricted, and they're able to vent a little bit more. But after #108, #110, and #121, that view has changed. Him tunnelling me would in a general case be beneficial, but in a case like post #121 where it generates little to no discussion, doesn't really serve much purpose aside from agitating me. I want to say that he's scum purely because of an instinctive OMGUS, but even trying to be as objective as I can, I still see him as leaning scum.
Mykonian -
I share thoughts with Natsu in the sense that Mykonian is the most difficult to read. I feel like he genuinely puts forth theory discussion, but I don't think he pushes his own agenda in those posts, namely #100, and #117. Maybe he is, and Natsu is seeing something that I'm not. But from my point of view, he's leaning town.
Ruku -
I was getting a little worried that Ruku was scum settling for low hanging fruit (tojam2), but the case he builds against tojam2 is quite strong. I disagree with his argument against Mykonian, but I can see where he's coming from. Leaning town.
Natsu -
My views for quite a few things were shared with Natsu, but just looking at his #118, there is a lot less information there than I initially thought, but while it's nice that Natsu pointed out the lurkers, it is a bit concerning that Natsu has a scum read on Mykonian, but no vote (as Ruku pointed out). Null
tojam2 -
The tojam2 wagon was an interesting one to watch as more and more users were piling on. I believe that there's scum there regardless if tojam2 really is a noob town or scum. It's hard to believe he is either town or scum, but it's pretty clear that he doesn't put too much forethought into his posts. Null.
eventi and jachawk have too little content to say anything about, but hopefully eventi's replacement will post more than eventi did.
hawkleader3 -
Part of my read on him is because he's a SE. He was eager to go after tojam2 in #30.
In post 58, hawkleader3 wrote:@tojam2: you have not given a response to my vote on you. Sure most of us were in RVS, but I'm concerned as to why my vote got no attention at all. A simple rolling-eyed emoticon would've sufficed in this situation. Now tojam2, with you at L-1, it is time for a claim
NO OTHER PLAYERS NEED TO VOTE TOJAM2 UNTIL A CONSENSUS IS MADE FIRST! Hammering quickly is bad for the hammerer because it looks scummy, bad for tojam2 because he will be dead, and if he flips town, it is bad for the town. THE ONLY PERSON WHO BENEFITS BY HAMMERING QUICKLY IS SCUM so no quick hammers please.
I wish more people were less experienced at mafiascum. I was really in a teaching kind of mood this game.
Am I the only one that thinks that this was ridiculously opportunistic? An SE, asking for a claim in the middle of the third page, when not everyone has even posted yet. Scum
Why were you so hasty to get a claim from tojam2 without considering the possibility of others unvoting?
So in terms of least to most scummy
Ruku > Mykonian > Natsu = tojam2 > PhantomCobalt > hawkleader3
I think I still like my vote where it is.-
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MochaMan Goon
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In post 129, Natsu wrote:I'm kind of hesitant about non-RVS voting with many players not playing the game yet. Is that a bad thing?
It can be, if you're too conservative with your vote, and aren't pushing enough, it can be seen as not scumhunting. At least that's what happened to me in my previous game.-
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@mykonian (and others if you want to answer), say someone is bad and you think they would be detrimental later in the game. Would policy lynching be acceptable? Or should we try and help the noob and lynch if and only if we read scum?
Sorry if the question is worded strangely, I can reiterate if you ask.-
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In post 143, hawkleader3 wrote:There's two ways I read this question, so I'll answer it both ways in one response. Hopefully.
If I don't make that post and a PR gets lynched, I feel guilty for not saying anything.
If I make the post and people say "Woah chill out. We aren't going to lynch him", then I am just seen as overcautious and apparently scummy. I'm okay dying if it means a power role doesn't get lynched, but of course. I would love to lynch scum like everyone else.
If I don't make that post and people unvote, I say "phew. Close one"
If I make the post and he claims whatever he claims, I assess his claim and see if he is scum or not.
I would rather be too safe when it comes to that post to make sure we all know who is potentially being lynched than not being safe and some newbie quickhammers him. I had not considered other more experienced players seeing this mistake like I did and unvoting because of it. It was a case of tunnel vision I guess. The thought of others unvoting was not significant enough for me not take action.
As a town, I generally go and do what I think is right, regardless of whether or not it makes me look scummy. That only comes into play if someone is pressuring me and I have to asses my past posts. The argument that "if I did something else it would make me look bad" is generally not a good one from my point of view.
I know this is WIFOM, but it doesn't seem like I would make my note of no quick hammering so obvious if I wanted there to be some newbie quickhammer mistake. (Then comes the argument "Well then wouldn't scum want to do that to act as town" which turns to "well maybe town did it anyway knowing he would look scummy for doing it, meaning he is telling the truth" and then "Wouldn't that be what scum wants you to think" and for those new to MafiaScum, that is WIFOM).
An argument held against that is that if you're scum, and you don't want your partner to quickhammer.-
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MochaMan Goon
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In post 143, hawkleader3 wrote:SE is a technical term, but I understand that status comes with some responsibility.
That wasn't the point, I was trying to mention that you clearly have past experience on this site and that 'mistake' isn't something I'd expect from an experienced town.-
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MochaMan Goon
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MochaMan Goon
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MochaMan Goon
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In post 160, mykonian wrote:Depends how you look at it. I don't mind the hawk wagon, I can easily see him being scum. 4 people thought the same. That's enough.
I don't mind it either, but it feels uncomfortable to have a lynch when a player hasn't even joined the game yet.-
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MochaMan Goon
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MochaMan Goon
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In post 83, MochaMan wrote:In post 82, MochaMan wrote:IMO thinking about scumteams when it isn't MYLOor there isn't a confirmed mafia yetis pretty useless, especially when it's day 1 and not everyone has joined yet.
EBWOP-
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In post 179, MochaMan wrote: How did I turn you into 'easy lynch bait'?-
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@HawkLeader
In post 185, MochaMan wrote:In post 179, MochaMan wrote: How did I turn you into 'easy lynch bait'?-
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As for now I'll throw my vote on whoever I think is scummiest
VOTE: tojam2
I didn't like his reasoning for voting hawkleader nor his claim.
I'm only going to vote between the two(hawkleader3 and tojam2). Giving the mafia 2 claims for the night would be very dangerous. But I've never witnessed it myself, so I can only speculate.-
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@hawkleader3In post 206, MochaMan wrote:@HawkLeader
In post 185, MochaMan wrote:In post 179, MochaMan wrote: How did I turn you into 'easy lynch bait'?-
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In post 226, hawkleader3 wrote:I think mochaman has voted tojam to counter my argument that he is partnered with tojam, but it isn't going to work
If you think tojam2 is scum, go ahead and vote him then. I promise I won't move my vote-
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MochaMan Goon
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In post 253, Lia wrote:
Yes, the wagon did look scummy so why did you wait untilafterthe hammer to point that out?
In post 251, MochaMan wrote:Woah, didn't expect it to be so soon.-
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In post 257, PhantomCobalt wrote:So your implying that scum is on the later votes of the wagon?
I'm not sure I follow-
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MochaMan Goon
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In post 259, PhantomCobalt wrote:In post 258, MochaMan wrote:In post 257, PhantomCobalt wrote:So your implying that scum is on the later votes of the wagon?
I'm not sure I follow
If you didn't mention the scum on the first votes of the wagon I would think the scummy votes were the last 2/3?
Meaning you and Ruku? I was hoping to focus on tojam2 more without taking the pressure off Lia.-
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In post 267, Natsu wrote:Yeah, the lines are really starting to blur to me for Tojam2. He has been making repeated town-slips, which I'm still not sure are due to absolute noobishness or if they're planned.
Looking back at the chart, it seems like we're in a very bad spot. With a Jailkeeper gone, that means we either have nothing but vanilla townies, or the only power role is bulletproof with a mafia roleblocker. Can the roleblocker stop the bulletproof vest from applying? Because if they can, then that means their roleblocker is just going to keep blocking the same target that they attack, which brings us right back to not having power roles. I'm assuming it works like that, or is there a rule that a passive ability can't be roleblocked?
Another role question: If the Jailkeeper actually visited a mafia member, would that have prevented the kill or anything? I was kind of just wondering if we could maybe deduce innocence of someone by guessing who PC may have went for.
I believe the roleblocker cannot block a bulletproof vest.
Also from what I can remember, if the jailkeeper jails one mafia, the other can still make a kill.-
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MochaMan Goon
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In post 267, Natsu wrote:Yeah, the lines are really starting to blur to me for Tojam2. He has been making repeated town-slips, which I'm still not sure are due to absolute noobishness or if they're planned.
If you wouldn't mind, could you point out the town-slips that I seem to be missing?-
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In post 265, tojam2 wrote:And Mocha, don't give the game away like in 261.
How did I give the game away?