Newbie 1758 - Symmetry (Game Over)

[DayahaangRai]

Hello everyone.

I will try to read all pages soon.

And may i get a very short summary just to get a normal idea of the current situation for now?

[DayahaangRai]

I skimmed read all pages.

3-4 of the pages are filled with nothing. So, I've nothing to start with except for Joshz. And I dont really have much time talking how he is scum. I'll try to post it soon.

And my role have been replaced 2 times, I think that indeed is a town-tell. JK. But it is a thing to be considered.

[DayahaangRai]

Joshz's poss:
20 Random Votes without any reason.

23 Ignores Jackel's question.

31 Still ignores the question.

40 OMGUS'es Human.

42 "Random Voting with no Explanation" Hypocrisy! In my books, Hypocrite equals Scum.

67 More like regret because you got caught so easily?

85 Saying he's town because he knows he is town or something like that. By saying you're town, It doesnt even decrease a slight sus on you.

142 Why do you try to ignore the fact that i said i skimmed through the pages. I was keeping my vote till I post my thoughts on you. And I didnt want to get on a wagon without any reason.

147 Saying you're town is indeed a scum tell in the forums i have played. Townies usually dont have to tell it. And Why are you so annoyed with the wagon on you? And It's funny how you say "I am the only one being focused" because Space is under sus too. And Your OMGUSings are so cute.

153 Wow, Just wow. I am not a newbie as well but i am not regretting playing newbie games so far. And what did you expected? You are being scummy and suspicious af. So, When you are on a wagon, You are making the players here faulty.

135 And what do you think you have contributed or achieved so far in the game? Nothing productive at all. Why are you so hypocritical? This is like you are asking for the game to speed up the pace but you are yourself doing nothing other than talking about it. And The same "only Josh Show" might be the reason for not much speedy pace for everyone.

After all his posts reading, He has OMGUS'ed, shown hypocrisy few times, complaining about the slow pace and players and not doing anything productive himself.

Conclusion: He's either a extremely, annyoing/annoyed and un-helpful townie or a Scum and i guess he being scum has higher possibilities. Even if he is a town, What good will he do just by complaining and wasting town's time from getting wider range of sus list?

VOTE: Joshz

Will start answering few questions pointed to me and will try to post few reads on others soon if i can.

[DayahaangRai]

And my role have been replaced 2 times, I think that indeed is a town-tell. JK. But it is a thing to be considered.

Why do you think it should be considered? After consideration, what conclusions do you think we should come to and why?

According to my experiences in mafia games, Scums rarely get replaced and a 2 replacement of a role is rare for scums. So, The conclusion should be I can be said a near-confirmed townie but I dont expect it fully. Just said it.

@Joshz: My vote generated pressure and a reaction. That's the intent.
UNVOTE: Joshz

FOS: DayahaangRai

Lazy.

If not posting when i am tired and at sleeping-time is laziness. Yes, I'm lazy. It was about 10 PM (Same time rn) here and i was tired . So,I went to sleep. And I can only post once a day and that is at this time except for the weekends.

Is Joshz frustrated town or playing it up? Says some intelligent things then flails about. (This is one of my frustrations/difficulties in a newbie game. Especially with somebody who has other experience.)

@Joshz: Your vote is on me because you don't like my reasons for voting you. Other than that do you have any reads? Town or scum or both.

Though Loopdan was pushing for me a little at the beginning it wasn't a hard enough push for me to think they're scum. I also feel like scum would be trying to hang back and only join a wagon once it looks like it has a lot of steam but idk enough about the meta here.

@Sobolev Space: Which is it? Scum would push hard or hang back? What are your current reads?

@Hellfire Missile: I often build my cases on contradictions I see or on people simply following the crowd. When I cast my vote, I mean it; it is the best way for us to create pressure and reactions. Look at the way people vote: when do they join or leave wagons, does anyone always seem to be following, what reasons were given. Looking for lurkers is an option and wagons can sometimes create the pressure needed to generate content, but some people just play minimally. Commonly_Used_Abbreviations

@DayahaangRai: How's that content post coming along? *taps foot impatiently*

@Human Sequencer: Your IIoA sounds like it contains a decent bit of analysis. Is there any other reason for moving away from Sobolev Space?

@Jackel98: What are your reads?

@Loopdan: Since you are open to D1 policy lynching, who would be your PL now and why?

@Psyche: What are your reads? Your game content posts are fairly weak: 61, ^{^}72 & 74 & 75 ^{^}, 82, 99, 125, 129, 133. ^{^ noted}

Expect me to post once a day at around this same time.

And joshz is at L-1.

Give an intent to hammer before hammering.

[DayahaangRai]

I repeat:

Joshz is at L-1. Give an intent to hammer if you are thinking of hammering him so that he can get to claim.

[DayahaangRai]

@Sobloev: You had said "Being overly defensive" is a scumtell of yours. Dont you think you are doing the same thing right now? Being overly-defensive especially with 117 where you asked for questions/accusations to defend yourself which means you indeed are being Overdefensive.

Human Sequencer: 102 Pressure for what? A Claim? Or you are helping build a wagon? And as Sobloev is new to these games. Do you mean you can make her crack and start being scummy by pressuring her? New players generally start being suspicious after a wagon is formed on them. Just after that, Human gets off the vote without telling the reason to Un-VTL and votes Jackel. Very keen getting someone lynched? And he states the reason just after Howard asks for it. Pretty sus.

Loopdan 65 How is she scum and how are you so confident about that?

Psyche: I've seen no good posts from him except his IC post. He has tried to abstain from voting and that's not a town-like, is it?


Sus list so far:
Joshz
Human Sequencer
Sobloev
Psyche

[DayahaangRai]

lol
can we get an actual player in this slot plz^

@rai stop tunneling the low hanging fruit

jackel stop lurkaderping

What do you mean by that?

Daya's pbpa of Joshz doesn't really seem to have much substance. He's fallen into a newbie trap where he searches posts for congruence with buzzwords like "OMGUS" and "hypocrisy" instead of more actively trying to consider how his posts suggest he has a scum win condition rather than a town one.

- OMGUS isn't a real scumtell. It's just not. It's just a tendency people have to be suspicious of the people suspecting them, especially when they're town. The reason it happens is because people can't fathom that other people could read them so inaccurately; they find the alternative explanation that the person is only

pretending

to suspect them more probable. I did a short study on accusations of OMGUS and found that they don't really predict scumhood at all, even when you control for

town

accusations of OMGUS. I haven't published those results in MD since they seemed sort of obvious, but I've had to make this point in Newbies really often, so maybe I should.

- Scum have just as much incentive to avoid hypocrisy as town. In fact, they often pay excruciating attention to the consistency within their posting history, since their chief/most salient concern in a game is to avoid being lynched. Instead of reasoning about whether a post is hypocritical, you should ask yourself whether a post suggests his win condition is not to find and lynch scum but instead to survive until the town is eliminated.

- Deciding to lynch players according to how "annoying" or "unhelpful" they are might seem like the next best thing to lynching players according to their likelihood of being scum, but oftentimes it directly conflicts with the latter. After all, scum are more concerned with the form rather than the function of their posts, and generally have an easier time being agreeable and helpful to players. In fact, there's a buzzword for it - buddying. I'd say most D1s end with the most annoying person being lynched. Comparatively few D1s end with

scum

getting lynched. Mafia often use VIs like Josh as scapegoats to engineer mislynches. We probably shouldn't fall for that.

Maybe Josh is scum, but my reading of him is as a town VI. He doesn't really know how to play, and that leads him to make mistakes, but the emotional content of his posts seems pretty sincere. I believe him when he spitefully calls the people voting him fucking morons for trying to get him lynched. He probably really believes the town is making a dumb mistake right now.

-In a mafia game few weeks before in a different forum, I caught a scum OMGUSing and in that forum, OMGUS is rare as it is considered a scum-tell.

-Then again, No Town likes to be a hypocrite as far as i know.

-That is the reason for "Even if he is town"

So, If Josh flips scum, I can consider you his scum-mate? Everyone has emotions. Anyone can do what Josh is doing. Trying to trash/crap/moron call is not a Town-friendly move.

And may i ask for your reads?

[DayahaangRai]

yeah VI was my read too
I think he knows how to play, just not how to play here
site meta is probs really different where he comes from

josh you aren't getting lynched unless we have somebody as retarded as me and misguided as you in this game who isn't already on your wagon

@rai
town was doing nothing, i put my vote somewhere to make something happen. no claims plz
let me go on record saying definitely not keen to get someone lynched
i responded to howard because he asked me a question, lol

Pressure someone to make town do something? Or Make town jump on wagon? And Why did you think voting someone will make town do something?
Why hopping on the BWs on? Why didnt you voted Jackel without voting Sobloev if you had thought she was posting meaningful posts?
Why not mention that before someone questioned? An Un-Vote with a reason would have been nice.

[DayahaangRai]

UNVOTE: Joshz

VOTE: Human Sequencer

Reasons coming tomorrow, hopefully.


For now, Sequencer Answer this question for me please:
"Why did you think voting someone will make town do something?"

[DayahaangRai]

UNVOTE: Joshz

VOTE: Human Sequencer

Reasons coming tomorrow, hopefully.


For now, Sequencer Answer this question for me please:
"Why did you think voting someone will make town do something?"

Forgot to mention. Reason for not posting reasons today is because i am going to sleep now. About 10 PM here.

[DayahaangRai]

Here are the reasons for voting Human Sequencer

102 This post bugged me so hard. "I'm gonna join for pressure. If we get to L-1, I'm retracting."
Why he wants to pressure?
-Wants to pressure a newer player who is town to crack and become scummy under pressure.
- Wants to build a wagon real quick on town and when the wagon is formed, Get off from the wagon to not get sus if he flips town. As the newer player will already be cracked enough for town to vote.
- Just want town to do something.

128 Says the post pinged him.

160 If that post pinged him, Why will he Un-Vote him and vote Jackel?
-He thought the wagon on her isnt growing. So, Thought a change in the vote will be good to get someone lynched.

Why its suspicious?
-Un-Votes without a reason.
-Had said that post pinged him but still Un-VTLs.
-After Howard asked for the reason for Un-VTLing, Only then gives the reason which doesnt give a good sign. Says Sobloev is posting meaningful content, but jackel isnt. If Human was really pinged why will he Un-VTL? Because the wagon wasnt forming good.

201
Again, That's not a convincing reason. And you ignored- "Why not mention that before someone questioned? An Un-Vote with a reason would have been nice"
Your vote didnt made town do anything. What do you mean?

Changed? Didnt you said Space's post was scummy. So, You said "My vote stands" and still She hadnt posted anything as a response to your vote. But Yet, You chose to vote someone else. And Worth a shot? Like worth a shot to get a town hanged?

229 Your vote didnt made town do anything at all? But I asked "Why did you think?"


In my eyes and the site i play's meta, It would have been considered very suspicious. So, My vote stands unless he convinces me.


Answering to accusations/Questions, now.

[DayahaangRai]

According to my experiences in mafia games, Scums rarely get replaced and a 2 replacement of a role is rare for scums. So, The conclusion should be I can be said a near-confirmed townie but I dont expect it fully. Just said it.

Scum replaces out of Newbie games all the time. More often than town if a newbie player rolls it. The circumstances of the replace out matters a lot. I see no reason why your slot being replaced twice gives it town-cred.

Err. I've replaced into a game about 3-5 times in this site and In all those games, I was replaced as a town. And in the other site, Mafias are rarely, i mean very rarely gets replaced.

If I had to pick a scum pair rn it's Howard or psyche with Sobolev or Rai (but note: I don't think Howard AND Rai are scum).

Give reasons with your accusation, as well. Or is it because i was onto you and had voted you?

@DayahaangRai: The lazy was asking for a summary with such a short read.

I use it in every games. For instance: Check: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=700. This game has finished. And i was town that game and i still use it every game. That's not enough reason for FoS'ing me. You can even spectate the current games going where in every games, I've asked for the summary.

DayRai might have tried to misrepresent Sobolev by quoting her as saying that she was overly defensive as

scum

, not town.

For full disclosure I just looked back at my original post and realized I left it open as to whether I was overly defensive as town or scum. I still think that this means that DR saying me being defensive is a scumtell is misrepresenting my views, however, although it could easily be accidental.

Aside from that what you're saying makes a lot of sense. Although I don't necessarily think that loopdan has shown less emotion than any other people in the game excepting Joshz.

@Psyche/SEs: General theory question. At what point do you think your suspicions of someone should move over to an actual vote on that person? Do you think that you should just always be voting for who you're most suspicious of at the time or do you think that there could be times when you have slight scum reads on a couple people but still aren't voting?

It was a mis-read. I read "when accused of being mafia" or something like that as "when accused if i am mafia".


The meta here and meta in the other site i play seem very different that everyone here in newbie games start sus'ing me even if i am in my normal town playstyle. OMGUS and Hypocrisy are all suspicious there and These things are the only scum-tells that can be found there. I had already have enough of the sus in me in the previous games but I still thought of giving it a last attempt at such games.

I give up. Sorry, but the meta here is so much intolerable for me. I'll get back to the "one game at a time" thing in the previous site i played. Even if i am town, Every one sus me for being a town-me. I am not being salty but i'm used to the meta i play with.

Requesting a replacement!

And I can assure you all that the replacement which will be taking me is townie indeed.

[DayahaangRai]

Rai

I love your idiocy.

Continue doing it.

[DayahaangRai]

You know what? I am Town Cop. Vote me up, idiots.

[DayahaangRai]

You all are just fucking idiots.Nothing else.


Human Sequencer and Joshz are scums!


Just wanted to tell you this before i leave this idiot site.