Newbie 1770: Water Game Over
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nydushermain Goon
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These are his first 2 posts in regards to SAJ. He never explicitly states that SAJ is scummy to him, just votes during RVS which is understandable (because of RVS). Then he justifies his RVS vote by saying "I still think jin is being suspicious" without having substantiated the reason why earlier.In post 48, MooginSoosy wrote:So while we're asking questions, I'd like to know why formerfish is going after jin so much still after he explained he wasn't going to be around much until the 17th. I still think jin is being suspicious, but is it worth it to continue to question someone who isn't going to be around for a little while? Wouldn't it make more sense to also question other people rather than stick to one person in this phase?
Then he states that his reason for voting on SAJ was because fish was asking SAJ questions which has nothing to do with SAJ being scummy or not. It sounds like he's flipping on the read because fish was possibly trolling with his questions which contradicts him stating that SAJ was still suspicious. I don't think this is how a town thinks and I feel like Moogin may just be scum faking scum hunting.In post 78, MooginSoosy wrote:Ok, so looking back here are things that I think are worth making note of:
Myself voting for jin, and I'm bringing it up now since I'm sure someone else will. I didn't know what rvs was at the time but I voted based on what fish was asking jin (why aren't you participating in rvs are you scum). I'm now realizing he was probably half joking with those questions...
Fykus giving a reason for voting for tiershift. No one else was giving reasons at this point and it was also his second post in the forum. It seemed like he was on the defense (which I guess most people would be if they're being voted for). Tiershift and fykus had a quick discussion about the exchange of votes and fykus decided to change his vote (but didnt yet) while tiershift changed his vote to jin. After that, fykus still brought up that there wasn't much going on the first day other than tiershift being somewhat aggressive about being voted for. It's interesting to me that fykus continues to be on the defense about tiershift despite the fact that tiershift changed his vote.
Tiershift changing his vote to jin and jack also voting for jin afterwards. Tiershift's vote came after formerfish explained why he was voting for jin and why it was good to question him, and jack specifically gave the reason that formerfish's "attack" seemed solid.
Have you played a game with pep before?-
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nydushermain Goon
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Are you talking about this game or the one before? #burnIn post 89, Pepchoninga wrote:
Bish what ya doing, I barely posted?!In post 77, nydushermain wrote:Morning everyone. And god damn it....
VOTE: pep
Trust me. This is good for town.-
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nydushermain Goon
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What???? How could this be a strange thing to ask? We literally just played a game and you called me practically confirmed town for asking this very question in LyLo... and I was town...In post 87, Pepchoninga wrote:
I'm pretty sure that you need to have an encryptor for a day chat, or otherwise it would be mentioned in the OP. This is a strange question to ask IMO.In post 36, Formerfish wrote:I figured as much, but I wanted to make sure.-
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nydushermain Goon
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nydushermain Goon
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I'm so sorry T.T. I just played a game where the people talked about most on days 1 and 2 didn't have their genders on their profile so I spent too much time focusing on gender ambiguous pronoun usage... now there's actually a girl in the game and it's the one time I decide not to check. KmsIn post 94, MooginSoosy wrote:I was really confused for a second with your post because all of the pronouns were he and I'm a she haha, just for clarification-
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nydushermain Goon
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Let me try to understand where you're coming from just to make sure. You're saying that you thought SAJ was scummy because of the questions being asked of him?In post 97, MooginSoosy wrote:Also, this is my first time playing so in regards to "this is how townies think" and "this is how scum thinks" there's not really a point of reference for me. I'm sure that sounds like a BS excuse. I just want to try to see anything that could be suspicious even if it's not and I'm overanalyzing. As I stated in my long rant, I realized that the initial questions were probably just joking around and I was definitely reading way too much into it. Therefore, I changed my vote to fykus (even though I'm probably overanalyzing that as well...)-
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nydushermain Goon
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nydushermain Goon
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That's a little bit more in line with what you said. Why does the question being asked make him potential scum though? If I asked you a question, does it make you more likely to be scum?In post 100, MooginSoosy wrote:The questions being asked and his general avoidance of questions at first, it seemed weird. It's easier to just say "I'm going to be gone for a bit and I don't want to vote right away" rather than shitposting immediately then disappearing. Also a general suspicion of all people playing as well. I'll work on making my statements more coherent, I tend to ramble and make the same useless point 3 times and miss the point I'm trying to make-
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nydushermain Goon
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Does this matter to you this early in the game?In post 106, TierShift wrote:pep, why aren't you voting?-
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nydushermain Goon
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Not experienced in forum compared to live but from what I've read on forum games, it can be random at any point of the day depending on how scummy someone appears. If people aren't obvious scum, it'll take longer.In post 110, Fykus wrote:UNVOTE: TierShift
Undoing my vote on TS for now, just because some coherent arguments for some other people here are starting to appear. I'll withhold my vote for now.
Also as a question to the experienced players here - generally when does a lynch end up being decided? Do people tend to jump on the bandwagon right at the end of the day or can people just stacks on someone half way through and cut the day short?-
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nydushermain Goon
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nydushermain Goon
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nydushermain Goon
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Maybe nothing to you since you lurked early day 1.In post 121, Pepchoninga wrote:
Nothing simular.In post 120, nydushermain wrote:Tiershift reminds me of accountant's play style from last game.-
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nydushermain Goon
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nydushermain Goon
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nydushermain Goon
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People seem scummier to me than the game I just played. Last game, I had a lot more town reads although that might be a good thing since I was wrong last game. Regardless, I had a town read on formerfish before his supposed "PR claim" which I don't particularly buy. Either way, not important today as it'll resolve itself tomorrow. Annoying though since you were my only solidish townread if you actually are a PR.
I'm going to ignore people who I consider null and just go right into people who I think are scummy.
I think that moogin has been playing a very strange game. Moogin to me seems like she's playing very laid back and trying to blend in. She's not playing aggressive at all and I feel like some of her reasoning has been off and not natural. For example, when she said in post 97 where she unvoted SAJ because she realized the questions being asked of SAJ were sarcastic? How are the questions asked by another person a scum tell for the person being asked? I also think it's interesting that she makes one light reads post and votes fykus based on like the first 3 pages of the game in post 78. She doesn't actually explicitly call fykus scum... just recaps some of the things he's done and calls it interesting and then votes. Then, in posts 262 and 270, she says that we should look at some of the inactive people and that she's unsure of who to lynch and that we should make sure? But earlier, she made a vote on fykus on what I believe to not be a confident scum read vote. I don't think her play makes any sense. She also claims that jack is the scummiest for her but she doesn't vote him at all even though her fykus vote is getting stale. Btw, jack is someone she actually called scummy, not just "interesting."
There's also a weird interaction between tiershift and toto and I can't tell if it's an IC trying to tell someone that they're playing the game poorly or a scum trying to help his partner get out of a situation that can only end up badly for his scum team. In post 212, TS says that toto is playing different from their previous game (and I'm sort of assuming toto was town in that game), which I assume is TS potentially scum reading toto. In post 214, TS again states that toto is potential scum by voicing that he's unsure of toto's intent in pushing formerfish. I feel like toto is doing things that could definitely be indicative of a scum push onto formerfish and not being able to react properly to formerfish's reverse aggression but TS is dancing around it really hard. TS also warns toto in post 235 saying "this is your last warning" and then toto continues to push on formerfish and TS just tries to dance around it further by saying "drop it" and trying to divert attention elsewhere in posts 259 and 260. Toto finally just drops it randomly after TS suggests lynching fykus and says "yeah let's just kill fykus" in post 261. Everything just screams of buddying up to me.
In addition to this, TS asks formerfish for his read on toto in post 215 and then when formerfish gives a case on toto, he just ignores it pretty much completely and just tries his best to get toto out of the situation he's in. What especially doesn't make sense to me is that he claimed that he asked toto "why are you so complacent this game?" to try to understand why he was playing so differently but during toto's push onto formerfish, he doesn't indicate at all that he's trying to figure out toto's reasoning. With respect to other players, TS asks questions such as "what is your read on ___", "why do you think _____", etc. But with toto during his push on formerfish, he doesn't ask "why are you doing this?", he, at best, just says "I wonder what he's up to hmm...." and then tries to pull toto out of the situation by diverting attention away and pushing on other people.-
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nydushermain Goon
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Oh and IF toto is town, I think that TS is never scum. I don't think that, even as an IC, scum!TS would be throwing so many lifelines to town!toto. I think that scum!TS would just state that role fishing, etc. is just antitown in general but would be more than happy to let the fight go on. I think the way that TS pushed toto into a different direction is never scum!TS assisting town!toto.-
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nydushermain Goon
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Like why is fykus a better lynch than someone who is role fishing, even after constant warnings from the IC and other people explaining to him why what he is doing is bad? Why are you trying to work with someone who you think is potential scum as you mentioned in prior posts?In post 260, TierShift wrote:We can lynch fykus if you want?-
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nydushermain Goon
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And I acknowledge that you might just be confused which is why my vote isn't on you.
My vote wasn't on someone who I thought was scum. My vote was RVS.
Fair point about jack not being the scummiest overall to you. Who is the scummiest then? Still fykus? Maybe SAJ?
It's odd to me that you vote on someone who you think is "interesting" rather than scummy. Do you have a better case on fykus than the one you posted previously?-
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nydushermain Goon
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Can I try to summarize this post because I'm slightly confused? Tell me which ones are wrong and/or if I'm missing anything:In post 278, MooginSoosy wrote:I would be tied between fykus based on their continuing interactions with tiershift and Toto actually. SAJ is practically nonexistent to me until he comes back and starts talking again. Toto's weird tone and sudden aggressive attitude just seems too weird, and the willingness to vote for fykus after tiershift said to (even though tiershift didn't vote for fykus) screams scum to me. It's like "oh there's already votes for fykus, let's just vote for fykus and be done with that". The nonchalance of tiershift saying "just vote for fykus" seems scummy as well.
I think I vote for someone who is interesting more than scummy because I want to see their response. Fykus didn't respond to me at first and only responded after tiershift asked why I hadn't been questioning them. I consider that tiershift trying to make me a better player by the way. Their response didnt make sense, as I clearly wasn't bandwagoning off TS since TS changed their vote.
1) Toto could be scum
2) Toto AND TS could be scum partners?
3) Fykus isn't scummy, just odd
4) TS could be scum
Also, so do you think that fykus is scummy for not responding to you until prompted by TS or do you think he's still just... interesting?-
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nydushermain Goon
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Lynchable but not on my radar as scum.In post 286, TierShift wrote:Ny, read on fykus?-
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nydushermain Goon
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But do you think he's town? You're saying you're "on his rolefishing side" as if you're town reading him but you're saying you distrust him? If you were townreading him, why did you say things like "I wonder if this is just dumb attack or role fishing" (paraphrased to memory), or asking him why he was playing complacent which is, in your words, different from his previous game where he was town?In post 282, TierShift wrote:
I see you mentioning that I distrust toto but I'm not particularly scumreading him. I just think he's being stupid. That's why I'm diverting attention away. Because I think the attack is stupid.In post 274, nydushermain wrote:
Like why is fykus a better lynch than someone who is role fishing, even after constant warnings from the IC and other people explaining to him why what he is doing is bad? Why are you trying to work with someone who you think is potential scum as you mentioned in prior posts?In post 260, TierShift wrote:We can lynch fykus if you want?-
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nydushermain Goon
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The only thing that confirms whether or not he's lying is if he dies in the night or day... Him claiming what role he is does nothing. If he's PR, he claims whatever he is. If he's scum, he just lies. What does him claiming his exact role have anything to do with anything? You're just scum trying to see if he really is a PR or not, or which one he is. Your push makes zero sense.In post 310, Toto wrote:Tier please tell us if fish claiming his role would confirm if he is lying or not. You are the IC and can not lie about game theory.
Fish, if you are town scum already know you are a PR. You don't lose anything by claiming your actual role.-
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nydushermain Goon
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Fair point... ish... so let's look at the setup.In post 317, Toto wrote:It does god dammit. I already explained this. Tier please confirm this. You can not lie.
Look at the set up table in post 1. He can not claim anything without the other prs knowing if he is lying or not.
Either scum have a roleblocker or just vanilla mafia.
if they have:
A) ROLEBLOCKER:
1) Jailkeeper + Bulletproof
2) Cop + Doctor
B) VANILLA MAFIA:
1) Cop
2) Jailkeeper
3) Doctor + Tracker-
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nydushermain Goon
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nydushermain Goon
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nydushermain Goon
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Your theory falls apart slightly toto on the offchance that scenarios B) 1) and 2) are the case. If he knows that there is no roleblocker and he's scum (obv), then 50% of the role setups have no second. That means that if he claims doctor or bulletproof, he can land in the scenario where he gets the right claim in B)1) and B)2).-
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nydushermain Goon
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Well you're not getting him lynched today no offense so I don't see, regardless of his alignment, why he has to listen to you and claim his role. My vote is really cozy on you right now.In post 323, Toto wrote:Because he is not backing down. He really wants to get rid of me.
Moogin. He said again he is a PR in post 303-
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In post 326, Toto wrote:So what happened to your analysis of the set up table. What did you learn? Why change subjectIn post 324, nydushermain wrote:Your theory falls apart slightly toto on the offchance that scenarios B) 1) and 2) are the case. If he knows that there is no roleblocker and he's scum (obv), then 50% of the role setups have no second. That means that if he claims doctor or bulletproof, he can land in the scenario where he gets the right claim in B)1) and B)2).-
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nydushermain Goon
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Making formerfish claim exactly what PR he is also has a pretty good chance of giving scum the EXACT role setup if formerfish is town. Also not beneficial... Your strategy is ONLY GOOD if formerfish is scum. That's literally it. And if he is scum, he doesn't die in the night anyways so we kill him tomorrow...-
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nydushermain Goon
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I don't see anything particularly scummy from him. Nothing townie either though. He's a literal null read and unless the votes people are placing on him are just pressure votes, not completely sure why he's the main person on the lynch table compared to someone like jack who I believe is playing very similarly.In post 329, TierShift wrote:
Why notIn post 288, nydushermain wrote:
Lynchable but not on my radar as scum.In post 286, TierShift wrote:Ny, read on fykus?-
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nydushermain Goon
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And if the setup is justIn post 331, Toto wrote:
If he claims doctor the other doctor or bp will counter claim. Easy.In post 327, nydushermain wrote:In post 326, Toto wrote:So what happened to your analysis of the set up table. What did you learn? Why change subjectIn post 324, nydushermain wrote:Your theory falls apart slightly toto on the offchance that scenarios B) 1) and 2) are the case. If he knows that there is no roleblocker and he's scum (obv), then 50% of the role setups have no second. That means that if he claims doctor or bulletproof, he can land in the scenario where he gets the right claim in B)1) and B)2).
Vanilla Mafia / Cop / Vanilla Town??
Then scum!formerfish's claim of doctor goes unCCed because there's no doctor in the setup, and the cop believes his claim because obviously the setup of cop + doctor is viable.-
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nydushermain Goon
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I just assumed he missed an "if"In post 351, Toto wrote:Read my last post. He basically scumclaimed.
This ends with both of us dead.-
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Sorry. I meant "if you're" ... Like "Your game play is ridiculousIn post 342, Formerfish wrote:Unless you don't make it out of the day today and your partner missed it?
Seriously dude, I think I'm about done dealing with you. Your game play is ridiculous as town, and I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall trying to discuss anything with you.
Town dont point out softclaims. They recognize them, then they shut the fuck up about it until it is necessary for it to be vocalized. Think about it like a shut#out. You don't talk about the shut#out until it's over.if you'retown -"-
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Either way. He said this too. Does this mean he town told?In post 347, Formerfish wrote:If you are town then I hope you up your game before I ever see you in a game thread again.
Ninja- I want him dead. I think that rope will be the only way that happens. either he is just scum, or mislynch bait now.-
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I might've missed it but do you town read him? What's your actually read on him at this moment.In post 357, TierShift wrote:
His attack made no sense to me. I didn't like it, but I don't feel it makes him scum. A different tone also doesn't make him scum. Tones change over games. Mine does too. I was just wondering why it was changing.In post 289, nydushermain wrote:But do you think he's town? You're saying you're "on his rolefishing side" as if you're town reading him but you're saying you distrust him? If you were townreading him, why did you say things like "I wonder if this is just dumb attack or role fishing" (paraphrased to memory), or asking him why he was playing complacent which is, in your words, different from his previous game where he was town?-
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nydushermain
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If he's town, who do you think it is?In post 361, TierShift wrote:
1 prollyIn post 298, Toto wrote:Ok. Im at l-1. One more vote and Im lynched. Tier how many scum do you think are in my wagon?-
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So here's where I'm at right now with toto. I tried to change my playstyle this game to not be on the defensive because that's where I was all game last game. Instead, I wanted to try going on the offensive and just spewing some BS but I think I got caught in my own tunnel. Toto could very well be town, and I'm pretty sure if I had JUST replaced into this game, I probably would've thought of him as town. Weird thing for me to say, I know, but I kind of agree with TS. The guy is acting a bit suicidal if he's scum... even moreso since TS gave him an out and he pretty much took it... and went right back into the depths of hell. I think there's a good chance that the scum are inside the people who are pretty much staying away from this fight.
UNVOTE:
I think that me coming back from being busy right during the midst of the fight feels like how alisae replaced into my last game when me and accountant were in a big fight.-
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I'm not sure if fykus is where I want the lynch to be headed though. We have 9 days to figure this out. Toto could still be scum, imo, but I think that we should take a step back until more shit happens. It would be absolutely horrific if I went into the next day with 1 town read, especially if he dies in the night.-
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I think we need pressure on both fykus AND jack, and to wait for SAJ to come back from his V/LA (does that mean vacation until a certain period of time so he's excused from inactivity?). I want a closer look on pep... and moogin too when she comes back from grocery shopping because I think there could be scum there. TS, like I've stated before, is always town if toto is town so this is a package deal for me. If we're not looking at toto, I'm not considering TS as a lynch.-
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Actually... this could also just be scum!TS bailing out his partner again because being the only scum left in the game after your partner gets lynched d1 is almost impossible to win. Jesus... If town could just play townie, this game would not be as weird.In post 366, TierShift wrote:It's town I think.
Rolefishing so blatantly is something scum don't do because it makes them a likely lynch target, especially in a newbie game. Town are more indifferent towards getting lynched and will just do whatever they THINK is the correct play.-
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What. You went on moogin in an earlier post, then took pressure off of moogin to get the toto slot out of hot water to vote fykus? Then you're saying to go back on moogin? You're just voting randomly between the two... explainIn post 416, TierShift wrote:RC your post on moogin was good don't get distracted now
VOTE: moogin
Can people who townread me please sheep tyvm-
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I asked earlier in the thread if he could give his reads and he gave a cop out saying something along the lines of "I don't want to give my uncertain reads incase newbies just try to follow me because I'm an IC." But he hasn't really given anything other than a town read on you... which I had to ask for.-
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He could've just said "I townread toto and I think we should vote on ____" but I think he just didn't want to be associated with you but he couldn't have your slot get lynched either so he tried to draw the attention elsewhere. Why else would he refrain from giving the read on someone getting wagoned on?-
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