Newbie 1773 - Roosters (Post-Game)

[TesXX]

Yay it started

VOTE: TesXX because I'm the jester

[TesXX]

I'm not scum or town. I'm jester

[TesXX]

I'm jester. Deal with my peculiarity.

[TesXX]

Matrix6 is invalid and so are all you foolish townies and scummies.

[TesXX]

if you vote me i will make mafiascum great again!

[TesXX]

UNVOTE: I gtg so I will explain my reasoning asap tomorrow

[TesXX]

Uhhhh you should vote Tes because you think there is a decent chance he is scum not because you want to play the odds. Also, barring a derphammer, 3) doesn't happen, because PRs usually claim before they die.

That's a bit soon. I mean, yeah I claimed a non existent role and joked around for a while, but isn't that part of RVS? I think this is a bit early to tell other people who to vote, that's kind of a later-in-the-game thing. I was just joking around for RVS, guys. I think putting me at L1 is a bit far since a scum player could hammer me.

[TesXX]

Sorry I misread everything

[TesXX]

I misunderstood what you were trying to say. Sorry, Accountant.

[TesXX]

I think I have a slight town read on Accountant, since they questioned Woodboys for voting me even though they also voted me. That's something more likely for townies to do than it is for scummies imo.

Uhhhh you should vote Tes because you think there is a decent chance he is scum not because you want to play the odds.

[TesXX]

I've played on EpicMafia before.

[TesXX]

wait there's still a mistake it says woodboys hasn't unvoted

[TesXX]

Oh

[TesXX]

I forgot what sr meant. I'm guessing scum read?

[TesXX]

I think Bart would've said something by now if they weren't busy because Lurking wouldn't help anyone and I think people assume it's scummy more often than they should. Before lynching Bart we should probably wait for a replacement.

[TesXX]

We'll see. If they're just lurking, then they'll probably reply eventually to avoid getting replaced.

[TesXX]

Not Tes, that's for sure. The only reasoning to vote Tes, in my mind, is barely a justification for an SR.

I'd like to hear a bit more out of Aj The Epic. He's said some things here and there, but he hasn't formulated any strong opinions so far. I liked what he said about Woodboys but I don't like how he didn't follow it up with anything further.

Why isn't your vote on Aj then?

Actually Falco seems kind of detached/strangely cautious about voting in a phase that people are throwing votes around. VOTE: Falco

Lighthaze you are giving me the heebie-jeebies.

[TesXX]

Woops meant to click preview not submit

Actually Falco seems kind of detached/strangely cautious about voting in a phase that people are throwing votes around. VOTE: Falco

I think a townie could very well do that.

Not Tes, that's for sure. The only reasoning to vote Tes, in my mind, is barely a justification for an SR.

I'd like to hear a bit more out of Aj The Epic. He's said some things here and there, but he hasn't formulated any strong opinions so far. I liked what he said about Woodboys but I don't like how he didn't follow it up with anything further.

Why isn't your vote on Aj then?

Actually Falco seems kind of detached/strangely cautious about voting in a phase that people are throwing votes around. VOTE: Falco

Lighthaze you are giving me the heebie-jeebies.

How is light haze giving you the heebie jeebies?

[TesXX]

@Ace-- What do you make of Tess so far?

I don't like the whole self voting, and even in the RVS joking around like that is pretty counter productive to the town cause, and he also hasn't provided much solid insight on anyone (aside from pointing out that Accoutant seemed to be town) or much of a defense as to why he self voted.

I will also say that Lighthaze hasn't been winning a town vote for me, first claiming he wanted to do a random lynch, very very anti town, (same with Woodboys who on top of that switched sides a lot on the whole Tes thing). Also with Lighthaze as I went through the thread I realized he hasn't really given a solid opinion on anyone

And now with Bart here being completely unhelpful I'm suspicious of him so until I get something more from him my vote remains.

Tl;dr I'm suspicious of a few people atm

RVS is the beginning of a LOT of town games. Also I haven't given any solid opinion on the game simply because he has none(Probably the same with Lighthaze). It's still pretty early in the game. Although I do agree with you that Bart should've told us a little more about their opinions.

[TesXX]

[quote="In post 102, AceQueen] So then follow up question to everyone, is it bad to ask questions on other people's opinions? (Also sorry if it seems like I'm playing the newb card too heavily that's not what I'm trying to do)[/quote] not imo
I have a feeling this isn't Falco XV's first game.

[TesXX]

I think a townie could very well do that.

I agree. I'm not saying Falco is locked scum. It's a lead I'd like to pursue, and it's stronger than my old vote on you.

Okey

[TesXX]

@Tes-- You still haven't explained what you meant here:

UNVOTE: I gtg so I will explain my reasoning asap tomorrow

Still waiting on an explanation. Although I'm not sure what you are explaining. Is it your unvote of your self-vote?

I was going to explain what I thought was scummy about Accountant, but then I realized I misunderstood what they said.

[TesXX]

also light can you explain scum!light

obviously i meant scum!TesXX here lmao

it was from the beginning, now its stuck with me as a gut read, Tes feels not townish imo

i think the way he sticked his neck out to do something attention grabbing page 1 is more likely town than not

what else besides the self-vote has pinged your gut?

think of it as reverse phycology, claiming jester and wanting to be lynched. I dont think anyone would lynch Tes for a role that didnt exist, making them "townish"

It wasn't reverse psychology at all. That was pure RVS, not trying to look townish.

[TesXX]

@tesXX, care to claim?

Am I supposed to claim this early? I'd prefer an SE or IC answer.

[TesXX]

Okey

[TesXX]

Just be careful with counting lynches, or you could get an important pr to claim on d1 because of a vote miscount.

[TesXX]

Sorry about how busy I've been lately. I'll try my best to stay with the game soon when I get the chance I promise.

{Accountant} {Lighthaze} town
{giga} nulltown
{Loopdan} null
{falco} scumlean

giga has been including lots of details and seems to have been engaging in trying to find the mafia more than most of the other players, which wouldn't be entirely necessary and wouldn't be scummy not to do.
Loopdan's posts seem like they could be made by a mafia or town player.
181 seemed to just a tiny bit forced to me.

I will upload more posts with other reads soon when I get the opportunitu.

[TesXX]

@Falco XV claim when you're RIGHT about to get lynched or in lylo(lynch or lose).

[TesXX]

Sorry about how busy I've been lately. I'll try my best to stay with the game soon when I get the chance I promise.

{Accountant} {Lighthaze} town
{giga} nulltown
{Loopdan} null
{falco} scumlean

giga has been including lots of details and seems to have been engaging in trying to find the mafia more than most of the other players, which wouldn't be entirely necessary and wouldn't be scummy not to do.
Loopdan's posts seem like they could be made by a mafia or town player.
181 seemed to just a tiny bit forced to me.

I will upload more posts with other reads soon when I get the opportunitu.

i'm assuming you have no read on woodboys and grey?

what do you think about aj?

wrt to loop do you think there's a thought process or something you can use to prod and pinpoint whether it's townie or scummy?

Well grey just joined the game and they replaced AQ who I was neutral towards, so no reads on grey yet. As for woodboys, not much stood out to me other than the fact that he said he would respond to falco's question about me and then didnt. Do you think it was a mistake or a lurk?
I'll finish my response tomorrow, I've been getting technological difficulties all day and I'm fricking tired.

[TesXX]

I think aj gives me a scum-ish vibe. Just like giga said in 163, a scum player wouldn't want their partner to be accused of lurking. aj said in 193 that it wouldn't make sense for that to happen, but aj and falco could've planned it in the pregame to make people not suspect them as a scumteam.

[TesXX]

I'd like GT and grey to both talk about Accountant sometime soon.

He's a pretty hard townread at the moment because he was the first to point out what I found scummy about Falco when the status quo for the gamestate was something scum would want to keep it in (on tes and light, who I townread and still do tbh). I think as scum he wouldn't try to shift momentum onto Falco because the Tes push was something the rest of the town was already engaged in, while Falco needed my replace-in to get any attention. Even if Falco were town, I don't really see much point in scum changing their vote like that.

Not much else to say, most of his posts have been great and his thought process is genuine.

Do you feel paranoid about him? I understand your concern with like most of the SE/IC players being townread here sans Aj and you wanting to sort them but nothing about Grey or Accountant (or you any more) makes me uneasy.

I think aj gives me a scum-ish vibe. Just like giga said in 163, a scum player wouldn't want their partner to be accused of lurking. aj said in 193 that it wouldn't make sense for that to happen, but aj and falco could've planned it in the pregame to make people not suspect them as a scumteam.

this read seems pretty associative. do you think Aj could still be scum if we're wrong about Falco?

Well yeah, but a bit less likely.

[TesXX]

tes, was there actually motive to your entrance?

My motive was trolling.

[TesXX]

Well yeah, but a bit less likely.

Any specific points that make you feel this way, since most of your read that you've explained assumes Falco!scum?

Well not really. I said he could be mafia because without falco, he gives me a null vibe.

[TesXX]

Do you think scum is more or less likely to intentionally annoy others?

Why or why not?

Well trolling isn't always necessarily about annoying people, but rather being ridiculous.

[TesXX]

Yeah I'd say so.

[TesXX]

Accountant

24 - Red text.

Verdict

: Scum.

How?

[TesXX]

Also, I am a very indecisive person and usually don't like to push on someone unless I'm sure. As many people have provided evidence including yourself towards scumreads on Falco, I agreed with the notion and posted my intent to hammer. This still gives time for Falco to discuss topics if need be. While yes I agree my reads could come off as scummy due to the excessive amounts or BW, it is merely like that because I agree with the evidence provided.

You didn't seem too indecisive when you put me at L-1 on page 2.

[TesXX]

When -Grey- first made post 376 I thought, "this evidence is actually pretty good, but woodboys' posts still seem a bit more like they could be genuine than falco's posts," but then woodboys came with 397 saying that he was an indecisive person, and then that made me think more about on page 2 when he was talking about being on the fence about voting me, and it didn't seem very real. It was almost like he wanted to act on the fence about it and

then

vote me, to seem like a townie being careful about lynching. I'll probably decide on whether I suspect woodboys or falco more overnight and vote in the morning.

[TesXX]

Hold on,

Also, I am a very indecisive person and usually don't like to push on someone unless I'm sure. As many people have provided evidence including yourself towards scumreads on Falco, I agreed with the notion and posted my intent to hammer. This still gives time for Falco to discuss topics if need be. While yes I agree my reads could come off as scummy due to the excessive amounts or BW, it is merely like that because I agree with the evidence provided.

You didn't seem too indecisive when you put me at L-1 on page 2.

That is because at that time, a lot of evidence pointed to you being scum with multiple people pushing.

explain "a lot of evidence." What was really suspicious? Also, while Lighthaze and Accountant voted me, they weren't really

pushing

on anything.

[TesXX]

VOTE: woody

[TesXX]

Still though, I don't see why you said they were pushing. Seems a bit like an excuse. (Also 400 wasn't the only reason I voted woody, it might've seemed like it was from the way I posted my vote)
Yes I said I was going to bed and I will now.
Probably.

[TesXX]

UNVOTE:

What an interesting choice. Not the easiest person to try to sell as a scumread.

I don't buy your case, but I'm impressed with the fact you didn't go after an easier option.

he could easily be voting lighthaze to make people think he was town. You already said once that his read list was convenient.

[TesXX]

So voting peoples hard town read makes me seem town?

Well a scum player would want to avoid the trouble of

convincing

players to lynch a townie, wouldn't they?

[TesXX]

So voting peoples hard town read makes me seem town?

Well a scum player would want to avoid the trouble of

convincing

players to lynch a townie, wouldn't they?

Meant to say seem scum*

I didn't say it was scummy. I was just saying it wasn't necessarily towny.

[TesXX]

Why would scum go against the flow and attract attention to themselves?

who are you defending?

[TesXX]

Why would scum go against the flow and attract attention to themselves?

who are you defending?

Myself.

Okay.

Why would scum go against the flow and attract attention to themselves?

so they could use that as an excuse.

[TesXX]

Tes, do yourself a favor and stop talking.

Okay I'll just type from now on.

[TesXX]

woodboys & Light, y'all can just pm the mod and concede.

It'll save a lot of time and we can all move on to the next game.

What would reaction be if say Falco flipped VT? That basically finds me and AJ as town PRs in a goonx2 game

I'd get triggered at Falco for trolling

[TesXX]

VOTE: woody
I may make a few posts tomorrow before we lynch woody so if he's at l-1 don't hammer him until everyone has said what they need to say.

[TesXX]

Lol @woody

[TesXX]

Lol @woody

Tes you used mr potato head in that pic which confs you as scum, thank me later guys

MR POTATO HEAD IS A SAVIOR

[TesXX]

VOTE: wood

Optimal play here is to let him sit at L-1 and gamesolve/hunt for his partner until deadline. Unfortunately these two days are not good for me in terms of schedules and business, but I'll do my best.

No. Optimal play is to keep him off L-1 so he can't end the day early by self-hammering.

Good catch
UNVOTE: woody woods yuuzstillgunadai

[TesXX]

VOTE: wood

Optimal play here is to let him sit at L-1 and gamesolve/hunt for his partner until deadline. Unfortunately these two days are not good for me in terms of schedules and business, but I'll do my best.

No. Optimal play is to keep him off L-1 so he can't end the day early by self-hammering.

I don't think a scum player would do this tbh, especially not if even the IC didn't catch it.

[TesXX]

-what did scum gain by killing Grey

a smaller chance of gitting exposed

[TesXX]

if it weren't for grey, woody might not have been confirmed scum right now.

[TesXX]

Roses are red
Violets are blue
When -Grey- died
The game did too.

[TesXX]

Also did aj ever get to l-1?

[TesXX]

nvm guys woodboys is town let's not lynch there : ) ) ) )

wait but...

i am scum

[TesXX]

it's such a drastic change but it doesnt feel fake

It's a difference in how much evidence of someone being scum there is that I can point out.

[TesXX]

im really losing my motivation to play this game, nothing i say will help me, idc if i get lynched at this point

I feel like this could be reverse psychology to make people think "mafia would care much more than this" and Light I'm not gonna argue with you about mafia using reverse psychology. Just listen to yourself.

think of it as reverse phycology, claiming jester and wanting to be lynched. I dont think anyone would lynch Tes for a role that didnt exist, making them "townish"

[TesXX]

Readlist 2.0:
{Accountant} {Giggles} Town.
{Loopy} Nulltown. Woody's partner would probably let him self
{Aj} Null
{Light} scumlean

[TesXX]

Oh also
{TesXX} jester

[TesXX]

Fo what?

[TesXX]

I'd say look out for light tomorrow. Aj, track him.

[TesXX]

I'd say look out for light tomorrow. Aj, track him.

You say that like AJ is going to be alive to tell you his results

He could

Sorry forgot to log off of my alt lol

[TesXX]

I'd say look out for light tomorrow. Aj, track him.

You say that like AJ is going to be alive to tell you his results

He could

That was my alt account

[TesXX]

I'd say look out for light tomorrow. Aj, track him.

You say that like AJ is going to be alive to tell you his results

He could

That was my alt account

not an alt*
my brother's account

[TesXX]

No I forgot to log off his account and posted.

[TesXX]

@Tes-- You twice called it an alt before saying it was not an alt. What's going on here?

I was saying, "an alt" as in an alternate person who uses the computer
but that was a crappy way of putting it and people would think I own that account

[TesXX]

@AJ
Please post your final reads/thoughts.

Yeah Aj you'll most likely die

[TesXX]

Please do your best to avoid positing with alternate accounts, especially those not belonging to you.

I know, sorry.

[TesXX]

Also loopy voted me

I believe you are mistaken. ~Drixx

[TesXX]

oh right that

was

woody idk what I was thinking

[TesXX]

@Tes-- You twice called it an alt before saying it was not an alt. What's going on here?

I was saying, "an alt" as in an alternate person who uses the computer
but that was a crappy way of putting it and people would think I own that account

Um, you said...

Sorry forgot to log off of my alt lol

And...

That was my alt account

Yes, I know, as in my computer's alt. I phrased it in a crappy way

[TesXX]

@Loopy so is this the point you vote woody?

[TesXX]

In case I get nightkilled I have to say this

idec if i get hammered d1, we just need for town prs to be ready

this is the LAMIST post ever AMIRITE UP TOP

[TesXX]

@Tes-- I don't think it is somebody else's account. I think it is your alt. But I also think you lying about this is probably NAI.

It's not my alt and of course it's NAI it has nothing to do with the actual game

[TesXX]

{Aj} Null

Actually claiming tracker to protect your scum teammate who is probably going to be lynched tomorrow if the other guy flips town is probably a bad idea since it will be auto win for town when you get counterclaimed later.
{Aj} Town.

[TesXX]

Took you a while to work through that logic

Yes it did.

[TesXX]

Should I do a dramatic hammer?

[TesXX]

VOTE: wood

Optimal play here is to let him sit at L-1 and gamesolve/hunt for his partner until deadline. Unfortunately these two days are not good for me in terms of schedules and business, but I'll do my best.

No. Optimal play is to keep him off L-1 so he can't end the day early by self-hammering.

I don't think a scum player would do this tbh, especially not if even the IC didn't catch it.

I take this back. scum could say that to get everyone to townread them and if scum is being townread then day going on wouldn't hurt them much.

[TesXX]

^^should be giga's new avatar... if only it wasn't so big

[TesXX]

you already said you townread me and i know i'm town so i'm going to go ahead and say that's legit

nothing is legit

Except for your partnership with woody
*airhorns go off*

I'm sorry I freaking used the same account AGAIN
I

REALLY

won't do that again

[TesXX]

you already said you townread me and i know i'm town so i'm going to go ahead and say that's legit

nothing is legit

Except for your partnership with woody
*airhorns go off*

wanna know what else is legit, you not using tesXX, or maybe thats you're plan
VOTE: tesXXVOTE: [v/]

VOTE: tesxx

Thanks for responding to giga

[TesXX]

im never losing as my gutread, sorry. as long as you live, im never gonna stop suspecting you


BITE ME

^^Proffesional scumhunting

[TesXX]

wanna know what else is legit, you not using tesXX, or maybe thats you're plan

what?

[TesXX]

there's scum motivation in forgetting to log out your brother's account

Oh yeah that's right. VOTE: Te- just kidding this vote does not count

[TesXX]

307 tes could've gotten at least something from woodboys other than him "not standing out"

I couldn't find out anything standing out on page 13
You couldn't find anything that stood out on page 44

[TesXX]

307 tes could've gotten at least something from woodboys other than him "not standing out"

I couldn't find out anything standing out on page 13
You couldn't find anything that stood out on page 44

ah but you see, this was toward everyone, before i decided to look through it again. you didn't find anything that stood out against woodboys, which was actually very possible to find something

Yeah and 307 was before I had 44 pages of info to look through

[TesXX]

to prove i am scumhunting, heres my first part on me sring tes, im gonna look for more reasons tho, so be paitient
29, 32: he goes from no lynching, to a huge sr on Tes for a jester claim, which is odd in itself, and automatically assumed a pr for an option ie, mafia roleblockerthen post 34 to 36, its so all of a sudden, woodboys was so reluctant to lynch his alleged partner, what exactly changed there, its a redflag for bussing without really much at all. all the while, tes seems to keep his distance away from acknowledging woodboys, he did seem to acknowledge me and accountant tho, to probably distance himself from him

Woodboys was just being newbscum being newbscum

at 54 woodboys suddenly unvotes tes, this is a problem because woodboys couldve easily stayed on tes, he had the reasoning to stay on tes, my theory is he got worried on lynching a potential scum pr or conf scum pr

no he unvoted because he wanted to start being more rational with voting people. Also the sample PMs tell the mafia who eachother's partners' roles are so woody knew his partner is a goon

[TesXX]

221 could potentially imply himself as a "town" pr when the time comes to claim

Good catch, this is actually logical reasoning. I was trying to imply myself as pr as an early strategy to make the scumteam kill me instead of on of the pr(s)

244 this is another example of not acknowledging woodboys, as a way to distance himself in the long run

I also distanced myself from Aj.

[TesXX]

I forgot the quotation marks around

distanced

[TesXX]

yes, but woodboys isnt alive to do that anyway no is he

do what?

[TesXX]

at 54 woodboys suddenly unvotes tes, this is a problem because woodboys couldve easily stayed on tes, he had the reasoning to stay on tes, my theory is he got worried on lynching a potential scum pr or conf scum pr
no he unvoted because he wanted to start being more rational with voting people. Also the sample PMs tell the mafia who eachother's partners' roles are so woody knew his partner is a goon

he couldve just stayed on you tho, he still "suspected" you at the time, so why not stay, it still bothers me

He could've stayed on me but he "suspected" me what do you mean by that?

[TesXX]

He unvoted me because he wanted to look towny.

[TesXX]

^^should be giga's new avatar... if only it wasn't so big

also especially considering accountant is the ic i'm going to agree that that post specifically is probably not alignment indicative

what's tough is that we really only have one day of data to really work with so we do kind of need light to have the floor if he's town so we can decide which of the remaining townies is actually scum, and accountant and loopdan were both lean-town posters and their associatives are ok but nothing outrageously clearing

i don't want to say which i'm leaning closer to being scum if it's not light to prevent them from using my death as WIFOM but i do have an answer in mind (and also to make sure light is actually thinking critically if town)

But how is WIFOM going to hurt us?
If we mislynch today then you'll probably be nightkilled, so if it's not light then tell us who it is.

[TesXX]

prodge


too sick to post atm

I think prodges have to have something game related
even if it's as simple as just saying "____ is mafia" or "_____ is town"

[TesXX]

I'm not ready to lynch Light yet we should give final thoughts since one of us will get nightkilled in case Light is inno. Lynch once everybody confirms that they're ready.
Lighthaze you too, what do you think of Accountant, giggles and Loopy?

[TesXX]

we should give final thoughts since one of us will get nightkilled in case Light is inno.

The last thing I want to do if light is town is be giving out reads.

Why?

[TesXX]

Alright, so everything that needs to be said has been said?

[TesXX]

Yeah, I'm ready.

VOTE: light

oh crap, i had forgotten about the game, some stuff came up, im at l-1, but accountant didnt bother to announce that, odd is it not?

Why would I? You're done with your analysis, right? So it's time to lynch you. It's fine if someone quickhammers, since you don't have anything to claim anyway.

we should give final thoughts since one of us will get nightkilled in case Light is inno.

The last thing I want to do if light is town is be giving out reads.

oh crap, i had forgotten about the game, some stuff came up, im at l-1, but accountant didnt bother to announce that, odd is it not?

This is a scum post. Let's end this.

VOTE: Light

Alright I'm ending this.
VOTE: lighthaze

[TesXX]

k, goodluck town, enjoy finding the last scum

do you have any advice before drixx logs on?

[TesXX]

I'm working on looking for possible scum associations between you guys and woody and I'll post tomorrow when I get the chance.

[TesXX]

VOTE: wood

Optimal play here is to let him sit at L-1 and gamesolve/hunt for his partner until deadline. Unfortunately these two days are not good for me in terms of schedules and business, but I'll do my best.

No. Optimal play is to keep him off L-1 so he can't end the day early by self-hammering.

I don't think a scum player would do this tbh, especially not if even the IC didn't catch it.

I take this back. scum could say that to get everyone to townread them and if scum is being townread then day going on wouldn't hurt them much.

Why is this TesXX's first post of the Day 3?

I felt like pointing it out.

I'm mainly on the fence because of the chance of a PR. Then again... you did make the point of them claiming. so fine

VOTE: TesXX L-1

Uhhhh you should vote Tes because you think there is a decent chance he is scum not because you want to play the odds. Also, barring a derphammer, 3) doesn't happen, because PRs usually claim before they die.

That's a bit soon. I mean, yeah I claimed a non existent role and joked around for a while, but isn't that part of RVS? I think this is a bit early to tell other people who to vote, that's kind of a later-in-the-game thing. I was just joking around for RVS, guys. I think putting me at L1 is a bit far since a scum player could hammer me.

Why doesn't TesXX entertain the idea that woodboy is scum here?

Well I did criticize him for putting me at L-1

[TesXX]

Loopy you're trolling right?

[TesXX]

I'm not trolling. You said you'd be analyzing associations today. What happened to that?

(expired on 2017-03-05 19:13:43)

I did and I would've said if I found anything useful.

[TesXX]

What does SvS mean again?

[TesXX]

@Accountant-- If you can't see how 635 makes me town then you might just be scum here.

why specifically accountant?

[TesXX]

(expired on 2017-03-05 19:13:43)

Time's up.

VOTE: Accountant

Accountant, you're lucky I'm town
Loopy for future reference you probably shouldn't vote this early.

[TesXX]

I chose right!

I read and re-read everything I needed to make my decision. The vote was neither too early nor too late.

Tes, have you reviewed my spoilered posts above?

I'll respond to them tomorrow when I get the chance I'm really busy right now.

[TesXX]

Sorry about not being able to post lately

Spoiler: All the times Accountant & wood talked to or about each other day1 (and two posts from day2)

Is there any real reason to do it besides for fun @IC/SE's?

It gets the game going, and it forces people to take stances early on, for instance about TesXX's behavior. That's both something that moves the game along and is good to analyze and re-read in D2 or D3.

It's sub-optimal to No Lynch day 1, because the lynch is the method that town uses to acquire information. Without a lynch Day 1, we have the same information as when we started, only we're a townie down after the mafia kill. You should put your vote on someone!

Is there any real reason to do it besides for fun @IC/SE's?

It gets the game going, and it forces people to take stances early on, for instance about TesXX's behavior. That's both something that moves the game along and is good to analyze and re-read in D2 or D3.

It's sub-optimal to No Lynch day 1, because the lynch is the method that town uses to acquire information. Without a lynch Day 1, we have the same information as when we started, only we're a townie down after the mafia kill. You should put your vote on someone!

UNVOTE: No Lynch

Not gonna lynch anyone just yet

starting to agree with the tess lynch. If he is so adamant about just clowning around. He won't be much help for the town. there are 3 possible outcomes of this. He 1) is scum and Yay for the town. 2) he's a VT and although it's bad, we didn't lose much or 3) he's a power role and we're terribly screwed for the rest of the game.

While he is a huge SR. I don't really know if the possibility of the 3rd option should derail us off.

Uhhhh you should vote Tes because you think there is a decent chance he is scum not because you want to play the odds. Also, barring a derphammer, 3) doesn't happen, because PRs usually claim before they die.

Idk.. still on the fence rn

Idk.. still on the fence rn

I thought you said you were starting to agree with the Tes lynch, then you wrote down an analysis of why the Tes lynch was good. That doesn't sound on the fency to me.

I'm mainly on the fence because of the chance of a PR. Then again... you did make the point of them claiming. so fine

VOTE: TesXX L-1

Re:Falco vote, mehhhh I kinda wanted to go after Woodboy but not only is there no support there (aka vanity wagon), the reason I want to pursue is also a bit cold.

Reasoning behind you voting woodboy is cold. Falco's reasoning is not cold. Why do you prefer wood to falco?

@tesXX, care to claim?

Generally claims happen when there is declared intent to hammer.

Reads list:

[Accountant] - me
[Lighthaze] - obvtown
[gigabyte] - townlean
[TesXX, Loopdan, woodboys, AceQueen] - null
[Aj] - nullscum
[Falco] - scumlean

{Light} - fulltown
{TesXX, Accountant} slight town
{grey, giggles, loop} null
{AJ} slight scum
{Falco} fullscum

Not that great at hunting, but those are my reads.

Also, based on all the reasoning that seems quite reliable from players I deem as very experienced...

Intent To Hammer Falco

This feels bad. I can't put my thumb on why it feels bad; I'll come back to this after I get rid of my sleep deprivation, but this definitely feels pretty scummy.

{Light} - fulltown
{TesXX, Accountant} slight town
{grey, giggles, loop} null
{AJ} slight scum
{Falco} fullscum

Not that great at hunting, but those are my reads.

This is like one of the safest list of opinions I've ever seen

Grey I think I'm mindmelding with you let's hold hands and lynch woodboys together?

VOTE: Woodboys

Oh that's L-1 I think?

Alright, I'm heading back to sleep before my headache kills me. Sliiightly uncomfortable with the speed of the wood wagon but it's still an amazing wagon. I thought perhaps the most damning part was that Wood's reaction to Grey's analysis felt very irritated, like he's scum who doesn't understand why he's being wagoned and is frustrated that he's getting lynched for the wrong reasons.

I'll lynch B over A 9 times out of 10.

It honestly depends on the player. Against a super calm player like Magna/Thor I'd expect B more and would probably lynch them if they had response A

But I think the scummiest thing about woods' reaction to his wagon here was the fact that the phrasing of his question seemed very caught for wrong reasons. It was like "can you guys tell me what I did wrong?? My disguise was perfect! Why am I being killed?" more than anything. I'm also unsure why town!woods here only interacts with grey

{Light} - fulltown

wood when did you get this scumread

how did it transition

and grey why tf are you supporting this??

what wtf the fuck the fuck??¿??

dont care about woods alignment this is a bad wagon sorry

let's get falco

At the time I read this post, this reaction is more or less exactly mine.

It's hard for me this game because I was up to a pretty okay start, and then I sort of got consumed with apathy and it's making it difficult for me to play.

My thoughts:

1) Lighthaze: you seem extremely willing to jump back and forth between people and hammer basically anyone. I remember you asking if you could hammer multiple times. Why are you so eager to vote-hop rather than stick to a big scumread and push it?
2) Grey: Talk to me about your thoughts on lighthaze. Your read on him hopped so fast I'm having trouble keeping track.
3) Aj the Epic: There's probably at least one scum in Light/Woods/Falco, and I think the most likely is Woods. But I wanted to ask you why you had no response to people talking about post 427? Because I'd like to hear you talk about it.

Nice try on the bait Accountant. Unless you actually thought I was hammered

Nice try on the bait Accountant. Unless you actually thought I was hammered

???

I didn't get hammered. I don't know if you knew that but acted like i did get hammered to get my role out, or if you just genuinly thought I was hammered

the big issue i have with woods is that every bit of his attitude and mindset in terms of determining how he should act/react in situations seems to stem from a survivalist or caught-scum pov

If wood flips scum, then Aj's "this wagon is moving too fast" would ping me really hard.

VOTE: wood

Optimal play here is to let him sit at L-1 and gamesolve/hunt for his partner until deadline. Unfortunately these two days are not good for me in terms of schedules and business, but I'll do my best.

Caught scum self-hammers frequently. This is a textbook case of caught scum.

Yeah, why didn't Accountant consider that? That might be a great topic of conversation today.

Because I forgot about the possibility. That was my fault, and I admit it.

Spoiler: All day1 Loopdan & wood interactions, etc.

@Wood-- If you get an avatar it will be much easier to follow you.

VOTE: Accountant

{Light} - fulltown
{TesXX, Accountant} slight town
{grey, giggles, loop} null
{AJ} slight scum
{Falco} fullscum

Not that great at hunting, but those are my reads.

Sorry for my recent low activity. Just got caught up.

VOTE: Wood
Intent to hammer was opportunistic and disavowing responsibility.
His prior read on player he intended to hammer was null (139, 143)
Reads list was risk averse.
Like Grey said there is no game-solving (or even any genuine curiosity about the game-state) evident in wood's game.

I'm not convinced that woodboy's push on light makes him town. Even though light is townread by some, he's still low hanging fruit if you consider it's picking a fight with an inexperienced player. And I've been open that I'm not in agreement that light is obvtown.

Falco hasn't done enough at this point for me to have much confidence in a read on that slot. Given the wagon on him, it's probably the right time for Falco to post a full reads list.

I'm disappointed Accountant is a non-factor right now (yes I know the same can be said for me but at least my name has come up on the last five pages). I know we probably can't sort Accountant today, but I'd like more content from them to at least have something to look at day2.

UNVOTE:

Wait.. That wasn't hammer on me. Loop unvoted me. I am at L-1 now

hghg

ok with loop deciding

not ok with wood not reacting to the fake hammer

Ha! I doubled checked ad remembered loop's decision

Voting Falco after you yourself are put at L-1, Woodsy?

That's not obvious scum at aaaalllllllll

Yes I know it's not the best move in my situation. I was just simply in a state of shock and I just want to have loop decide between the two of us and not just only have one person at L-1

@mod: requesting VC

If Woodboy is really at L-1, I

intend to hammer.

Will respond for loop in a little. At school rn

@mod: requesting VC

If Woodboy is really at L-1, I

intend to hammer.

I have a post coming up after school. I would like to ask for you to not hammer that post is out

@Wood-- Claim your role now. You can write more details later. I won't hammer until you've had your say but I want a claim ASAP.

@Wood-- Claim your role now. You can write more details later. I won't hammer until you've had your say but I want a claim ASAP.

Claim OS BP

I don't really have a problem hammering this day1. I'm re-checking his iso just to be sure.

OK so on re-read it's even worse. I'm doubtful that 36 comes from a newbie with a PR role pm. There's some "scum caught for wrong reason" in 644. 722 & 727 is not a townie thought process.

If anybody has a reason why I shouldn't hammer right now, speak up, because my next post will contain a vote for woodboy.

Either Falco flips scum or there is scum in wood/AJ.

I was this || close to going back on my word and hammering woodboy in my last post.

lmaoooo

i usually only go on during fluff classes where the teacher doesnt care or during lunch
F
im a good egg

Now at lunch. But loopdan wanted a claim so I had to. I probably would've been lynched if I wasn't checking

i think the big takeaway (especially if we're right about wood/light) here is that reads suck

If it ends up being woodboy/light I'd say my reads have been pretty darn good.

I haven't found many unique interactions although I will reread. What do you guys think of the interactions?

@Tes-- What do you need from me?

What do you mean by this?

[TesXX]

@Accountant-- If you can't see how 635 makes me town then you might just be scum here.

Not necessarily.
I said something similar to

I'm not convinced that woodboy's push on light makes him town. Even though light is townread by some, he's still low hanging fruit if you consider it's picking a fight with an inexperienced player. And I've been open that I'm not in agreement that light is obvtown.

[TesXX]

Here is proof from other Accountant games:

viewtopic.php?p=8669993#p8669993

Ps this is where "scum should self hammer and end discussion" comes up as a relevant point btw /IC hat

Unfortunately, ICs are not allowed to self vote as town. So I can't self vote! I agree that caught scum should definitely self hammer in this situation, and I have done something similar as well.

viewtopic.php?p=8335526#p8335526

@Maxx: Mafia might self hammer if they thought they would get lynched anyway and wanted to give town a last "fuck you" with their dying shot.

viewtopic.php?p=8195259#p8195259

Damn great game Accountant.

Told you that Genji self hammer was scary.

Actually I wanted him to self hammer to deny town time, I was perfectly fine with letting another player hammer too

There are more if you search Accoutant's posts for "self hammer."

It just seems coincidental and convenient that it was specifically this game that Accountant forgot after so many threads where they mentioned scum selfing.

[TesXX]

Spoiler: All the times Accountant & wood talked to or about each other day1 (and two posts from day2)

Is there any real reason to do it besides for fun @IC/SE's?

It gets the game going, and it forces people to take stances early on, for instance about TesXX's behavior. That's both something that moves the game along and is good to analyze and re-read in D2 or D3.

It's sub-optimal to No Lynch day 1, because the lynch is the method that town uses to acquire information. Without a lynch Day 1, we have the same information as when we started, only we're a townie down after the mafia kill. You should put your vote on someone!

Is there any real reason to do it besides for fun @IC/SE's?

It gets the game going, and it forces people to take stances early on, for instance about TesXX's behavior. That's both something that moves the game along and is good to analyze and re-read in D2 or D3.

It's sub-optimal to No Lynch day 1, because the lynch is the method that town uses to acquire information. Without a lynch Day 1, we have the same information as when we started, only we're a townie down after the mafia kill. You should put your vote on someone!

UNVOTE: No Lynch

Not gonna lynch anyone just yet

starting to agree with the tess lynch. If he is so adamant about just clowning around. He won't be much help for the town. there are 3 possible outcomes of this. He 1) is scum and Yay for the town. 2) he's a VT and although it's bad, we didn't lose much or 3) he's a power role and we're terribly screwed for the rest of the game.

While he is a huge SR. I don't really know if the possibility of the 3rd option should derail us off.

Uhhhh you should vote Tes because you think there is a decent chance he is scum not because you want to play the odds. Also, barring a derphammer, 3) doesn't happen, because PRs usually claim before they die.

Idk.. still on the fence rn

Idk.. still on the fence rn

I thought you said you were starting to agree with the Tes lynch, then you wrote down an analysis of why the Tes lynch was good. That doesn't sound on the fency to me.

I'm mainly on the fence because of the chance of a PR. Then again... you did make the point of them claiming. so fine

VOTE: TesXX L-1

Re:Falco vote, mehhhh I kinda wanted to go after Woodboy but not only is there no support there (aka vanity wagon), the reason I want to pursue is also a bit cold.

Reasoning behind you voting woodboy is cold. Falco's reasoning is not cold. Why do you prefer wood to falco?

@tesXX, care to claim?

Generally claims happen when there is declared intent to hammer.

Reads list:

[Accountant] - me
[Lighthaze] - obvtown
[gigabyte] - townlean
[TesXX, Loopdan, woodboys, AceQueen] - null
[Aj] - nullscum
[Falco] - scumlean

{Light} - fulltown
{TesXX, Accountant} slight town
{grey, giggles, loop} null
{AJ} slight scum
{Falco} fullscum

Not that great at hunting, but those are my reads.

Also, based on all the reasoning that seems quite reliable from players I deem as very experienced...

Intent To Hammer Falco

This feels bad. I can't put my thumb on why it feels bad; I'll come back to this after I get rid of my sleep deprivation, but this definitely feels pretty scummy.

{Light} - fulltown
{TesXX, Accountant} slight town
{grey, giggles, loop} null
{AJ} slight scum
{Falco} fullscum

Not that great at hunting, but those are my reads.

This is like one of the safest list of opinions I've ever seen

Grey I think I'm mindmelding with you let's hold hands and lynch woodboys together?

VOTE: Woodboys

Oh that's L-1 I think?

Alright, I'm heading back to sleep before my headache kills me. Sliiightly uncomfortable with the speed of the wood wagon but it's still an amazing wagon. I thought perhaps the most damning part was that Wood's reaction to Grey's analysis felt very irritated, like he's scum who doesn't understand why he's being wagoned and is frustrated that he's getting lynched for the wrong reasons.

I'll lynch B over A 9 times out of 10.

It honestly depends on the player. Against a super calm player like Magna/Thor I'd expect B more and would probably lynch them if they had response A

But I think the scummiest thing about woods' reaction to his wagon here was the fact that the phrasing of his question seemed very caught for wrong reasons. It was like "can you guys tell me what I did wrong?? My disguise was perfect! Why am I being killed?" more than anything. I'm also unsure why town!woods here only interacts with grey

{Light} - fulltown

wood when did you get this scumread

how did it transition

and grey why tf are you supporting this??

what wtf the fuck the fuck??¿??

dont care about woods alignment this is a bad wagon sorry

let's get falco

At the time I read this post, this reaction is more or less exactly mine.

It's hard for me this game because I was up to a pretty okay start, and then I sort of got consumed with apathy and it's making it difficult for me to play.

My thoughts:

1) Lighthaze: you seem extremely willing to jump back and forth between people and hammer basically anyone. I remember you asking if you could hammer multiple times. Why are you so eager to vote-hop rather than stick to a big scumread and push it?
2) Grey: Talk to me about your thoughts on lighthaze. Your read on him hopped so fast I'm having trouble keeping track.
3) Aj the Epic: There's probably at least one scum in Light/Woods/Falco, and I think the most likely is Woods. But I wanted to ask you why you had no response to people talking about post 427? Because I'd like to hear you talk about it.

Nice try on the bait Accountant. Unless you actually thought I was hammered

Nice try on the bait Accountant. Unless you actually thought I was hammered

???

I didn't get hammered. I don't know if you knew that but acted like i did get hammered to get my role out, or if you just genuinly thought I was hammered

the big issue i have with woods is that every bit of his attitude and mindset in terms of determining how he should act/react in situations seems to stem from a survivalist or caught-scum pov

If wood flips scum, then Aj's "this wagon is moving too fast" would ping me really hard.

VOTE: wood

Optimal play here is to let him sit at L-1 and gamesolve/hunt for his partner until deadline. Unfortunately these two days are not good for me in terms of schedules and business, but I'll do my best.

Caught scum self-hammers frequently. This is a textbook case of caught scum.

Yeah, why didn't Accountant consider that? That might be a great topic of conversation today.

Because I forgot about the possibility. That was my fault, and I admit it.

Spoiler: All day1 Loopdan & wood interactions, etc.

@Wood-- If you get an avatar it will be much easier to follow you.

VOTE: Accountant

{Light} - fulltown
{TesXX, Accountant} slight town
{grey, giggles, loop} null
{AJ} slight scum
{Falco} fullscum

Not that great at hunting, but those are my reads.

Sorry for my recent low activity. Just got caught up.

VOTE: Wood
Intent to hammer was opportunistic and disavowing responsibility.
His prior read on player he intended to hammer was null (139, 143)
Reads list was risk averse.
Like Grey said there is no game-solving (or even any genuine curiosity about the game-state) evident in wood's game.

I'm not convinced that woodboy's push on light makes him town. Even though light is townread by some, he's still low hanging fruit if you consider it's picking a fight with an inexperienced player. And I've been open that I'm not in agreement that light is obvtown.

Falco hasn't done enough at this point for me to have much confidence in a read on that slot. Given the wagon on him, it's probably the right time for Falco to post a full reads list.

I'm disappointed Accountant is a non-factor right now (yes I know the same can be said for me but at least my name has come up on the last five pages). I know we probably can't sort Accountant today, but I'd like more content from them to at least have something to look at day2.

UNVOTE:

Wait.. That wasn't hammer on me. Loop unvoted me. I am at L-1 now

hghg

ok with loop deciding

not ok with wood not reacting to the fake hammer

Ha! I doubled checked ad remembered loop's decision

Voting Falco after you yourself are put at L-1, Woodsy?

That's not obvious scum at aaaalllllllll

Yes I know it's not the best move in my situation. I was just simply in a state of shock and I just want to have loop decide between the two of us and not just only have one person at L-1

@mod: requesting VC

If Woodboy is really at L-1, I

intend to hammer.

Will respond for loop in a little. At school rn

@mod: requesting VC

If Woodboy is really at L-1, I

intend to hammer.

I have a post coming up after school. I would like to ask for you to not hammer that post is out

@Wood-- Claim your role now. You can write more details later. I won't hammer until you've had your say but I want a claim ASAP.

@Wood-- Claim your role now. You can write more details later. I won't hammer until you've had your say but I want a claim ASAP.

Claim OS BP

I don't really have a problem hammering this day1. I'm re-checking his iso just to be sure.

OK so on re-read it's even worse. I'm doubtful that 36 comes from a newbie with a PR role pm. There's some "scum caught for wrong reason" in 644. 722 & 727 is not a townie thought process.

If anybody has a reason why I shouldn't hammer right now, speak up, because my next post will contain a vote for woodboy.

Either Falco flips scum or there is scum in wood/AJ.

I was this || close to going back on my word and hammering woodboy in my last post.

lmaoooo

i usually only go on during fluff classes where the teacher doesnt care or during lunch
F
im a good egg

Now at lunch. But loopdan wanted a claim so I had to. I probably would've been lynched if I wasn't checking

i think the big takeaway (especially if we're right about wood/light) here is that reads suck

If it ends up being woodboy/light I'd say my reads have been pretty darn good.

Do you guys think there are any scummy interactions with woodboys?

[TesXX]

Tes, I'm literally not allowed to lie about game theory as an IC, and I'm not unethical to intentionally do a bad job of ICing just to get a very slim advantage.

I looked around the site and I found that this is actually true.
UNVOTE: Accountant

[TesXX]

FUDGE

I forgot that you can't unvote hammers. I have my fingers crossed
Accountant were you scum?

[TesXX]

There's zero % chance Accountant falls for that kind of thing.

You could've said this after Accountant responded
I'll ask questions tomorrow when I'm not busy

[TesXX]

Yep, should've known it was Loopdan. Town has no reason to try to rush through LyLo like that, and I'm kicking myself for not seeing it earlier.

VOTE: Loopdan

Kick: Accountant

I don't get how you have all this mafia experience and don't realize that you think Loopdan is acting scummy,

until

I'm clear.

[TesXX]

I don't get how you have all this mafia experience and don't realize that you think Loopdan is acting scummy and then once I'm clear you're suddenly realizing that Loopdan had been rushing through LyLo.

[TesXX]

FOSFOSFOSFOSFOS:

[TesXX]

FOSFOSFOSFOSFOS:

^^Trollposting

Accountant just wondering how come you quoted 635?

[TesXX]

Yep, should've known it was Loopdan. Town has no reason to try to rush through LyLo like that, and I'm kicking myself for not seeing it earlier.

VOTE: Loopdan

Lol

Nothing was rushed. I worked through everything and you played along in non-committal ways thinking I was going to vote Tes.

I mean Loopdan you did put a timer saying you were going to vote in 24 hours when there was still over 11 days left to gamesolve. I get that you didn't want to put off game solving to the last minute but a 24 hour timer can lead to rushed reasoning in games like this. Also, it's easier to vote early as scum because there's not a 50% chance of auto loss.

Accountant: You played along with Loopdan's 24 hour timer thing until Loopdan voted you. It doesn't make much sense and it doesn't give me the best feeling in the world.

[TesXX]

@Mod the daystart post says the deadline is 9PM EST on the 15th but the vote counts say that the deadline is 8PM EST can you fix that?

[TesXX]

Accountant: You played along with Loopdan's 24 hour timer thing until Loopdan voted you. It doesn't make much sense and it doesn't give me the best feeling in the world.

Uhm? Do you seriously expect me to continue to play along with someone's stuff after they've confirmed themselves as scum? You can't be this bad a townie, right?

I know you wouldn't play along after Loopdan voted you.
I'm saying that I don't like how you played along before that.

[TesXX]

Yep, should've known it was Loopdan. Town has no reason to try to rush through LyLo like that

you played along in non-committal ways thinking I was going to vote Tes.

[TesXX]

Accountant quick question did you think Loopdan was trolling when he said he would vote somebody in 24 hours?

Also, you don't think trying to rush through LyLo like that is suspicious?

I do. I think I forgot to point out earlier that I found Loopy's timer a little suspicious.

[TesXX]

Accountant quick question did you think Loopdan was trolling when he said he would vote somebody in 24 hours?

No. There's no reason to do so, as either alignment, since trolling just makes him look bad.

Or not necessarily trolling but just lying to get us to speak up?

[TesXX]

@Loopdan do you have anything more to discuss?

[TesXX]

@Loopdan do you have anything more to discuss?

Not really.

Except to clarify today's timer. I put a timer on it because nobody was talking. And I said I was probably going to vote you because I figured it would get you talking, and if Accountant was town they would engage and ask for reasons why I wanted to vote you. But Accountant is scum and didn't want to do anything to derail or slow down my vote on you.

The timer actually makes sense, but I just wish it wasn't show short.
Your actions make a little more sense now.

[TesXX]

Okay... let me try to slow this down for you. Suppose I am town. In that case, it would definitely be the case that I didn't see how scummy Loopdan's behavior was until he confirmed himself as scum, which gave me the benefit of hindsight. This is scenario A. Now suppose I was scum. Then I'd be playing along to get Loopdan to vote you. This is scenario B.

Can you explain to me why you feel my playing along is scenario B playing rather than scenario A playing?

Well it just feels convenient how you didn't see anything scummy at first when he clearly said that he was voting one of us in 24 hours(and he made another post with a countdown) and you then bring up your point after getting Loopdan lynched is your only option. I only didn't try to stop him because I thought he was trolling. You seemed to think he was telling the truth.

Accountant quick question did you think Loopdan was trolling when he said he would vote somebody in 24 hours?

No. There's no reason to do so, as either alignment, since trolling just makes him look bad.

Or not necessarily trolling but just lying to get us to speak up?

It didn't strike me that way.

Also I really wouldn't be surprised if you thought I was getting lynched, and if you did that would be another reason you may have played along if you are scum.

Leaning towards Tes being scum.

I always overthink lylo and end up voting wrong.

I'm voting one of you in 24 hours.

Right now it's probably Tes. I see no attempt at game-solving in lylo from you.

(I'm not analyzing D2 stances because Wood is confscum at that point)

On pure stances about Wood, I'd say that Loopdan comes out looking

slightly

better. Not talking to Wood at all early D1 is bad, but he was also inactive, so that partially explains why - and he went pretty hard attacking Wood after that. Tes shows a level of I guess hesitancy about woodboy, as if not sure how to sort him(or not sure if he should try to distance or protect his buddy?), and then his stance solidifies a bit more into suspicion after Grey's post about wood.

I'm hammering today because you guys have said there's not much else to discuss.

[TesXX]

Actually I miight not hammer today but I'm pretty sure I will.
But it's hard deciding who to hammer

[TesXX]

Don't worry I won't be rushed with my reasoning.

[TesXX]

Okay so I've thought and thought about it extra hard all day and I've tried to be as logical as possible and since my last few posts I think I've had an idea on who I'm going to hammer. I'm sorry if I hammer the wrong person but I've made my decision and this isn't just a rushed hammer.

Spoiler: And my vote is...

VOTE: Accountant
Sorry Accountant plez 4give :/

[TesXX]

Gg everybody!
I was leaning toward loop being scum at the beginning of d4. It was not an easy decision.
That was fun

[TesXX]

{Accountant} {Lighthaze} town

Funny how I ended up lynching both of these people

[TesXX]

I was leaning toward loop being scum at the beginning of d4. It was not an easy decision.

I'm curious what made you change your mind.

re-reading, bits and pieces of evidence throughout the game but it was mostly the change of mood about your timer from not giving much of a crap to saying that there's no reason for town to do it. I thought that was the most suspicious thing they did.