Newbie 1781 - Game over
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rb Survivor
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As IC for newbies I have one really big piece of advice for newbies in their first game, and the rest I can do throughout the game, helping people as needed. The most important thing is that you post regularly.
Remember that it's a game of uncertainty and you can't really be certain ever, unless you have a cop read or something. But it doesn't really help out the town if you just sit idly by and wait for something to happen. If you think something is scummy, point it out and vote if you think they could be scum. Don't be one of the people who timidly tiptoes around their first game and misses out on a really great learning experience.-
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But all villains are lemons. It's an imperfect tell but there's a 71.79295% chance you're a scumlemon VOTE: EccentricLemonIn post 19, EccentricLemon wrote:Not all lemons are villains.-
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assuming it was serious, what would you think? Is that protown or proscum?In post 25, Aatami wrote:Creature, is ur vote still rvs or is it more than that?-
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accountant you're unusually not-aggressive for early game AccountantIn post 28, Accountant wrote:Okay, I'll bite. Why rb?
R u ok?-
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I'm only in 1 game, wutIn post 54, Creature wrote:He was posting elsewhere while here he seemed inactive.-
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p sure i started the lemon thingIn post 73, Accountant wrote:
>not voting lemonIn post 70, rb wrote:y my spidermeme no work :~(
Are you scum, rb?
or did i?
im town-
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HKD (if you don't mind me calling you that) please obtain for yourself an avatar to allow us the convenience of recognizing your presence near-instantaneously by the visual recognition of your avatar that will allow for greater expediency of expedienceness in the game
tl;dr get an avatar so we can figure out who's speaking faster
thx
also is that an OMGUS vote?
what's tarkas done that u disLikEE-
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Well your vote should always be where you think you're voting for scum. The main thing is figuring out who is scum and who to vote for should then be easy.In post 113, Aatami wrote:Hes definitely not town for me atm, i dont like his lack of explanations and his vote switch, which i guess is a lot of things to not like but I feel that i could attribute it to being new? I just really want to see more from a lot of people so i can trust my preliminary thoughts more. if you think putting a vote somewhere i find scummy is appropriate ill do that, i just dont want to misuse my vote-
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Why's creature scum?In post 102, HighKingDestro wrote:
lol, Accountant said Lemons claimed scum, and I assumed I missed that post:facepalm:In post 97, Tarkus wrote:Destro, I'd like to hear why you vote hopped from lemon to creature, and why you joined the lemon wagon in the first place.
Also I'm not one-shot bulletproof.
The claim strategy is laid out here in game 1775 by RadiantCowbells, if you don't know what we're doing:
Spoiler:
Then I reread the thread, and came to the conclusion Creature is scum. Reread it yourself, focus on Creature-
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What's wrong with wagons being fast? If the goal is to lynch scum, isn't the thing that matters that we're hitting scum?In post 131, EccentricLemon wrote:I've only ever played one other game, which is over by now so you can read it. If you read it, you can see that I had precisely the same problem I warned you about. I had trouble expressing what I meant and I was repeatedly getting run up as scum even though I was town. I appreciate that the wagon disappeared but I still don't like the speed with which Accountant rallied one and subsequently dropped it.
Spoiler:
It would be nice though if people didn't wait for people to ask why they scumread someone and just explain it in the same post. It just makes it easier to read.
While I appreciate the speed with which the game is progressing, I think that we're being a bit too spontaneous with the accusations.-
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wat, i'm not even sure if i even think you're town yet
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but tbf i don't really disagree with your direction here anyway as i've got no real love for either destro or lemons at this point of the game. you aren't lynching anyone that i think is a bad lynch so i'm not really gonna agonize over your alignment (some of the shit you said was weird and pinged scum but ur always weird and pinging me as scum) if your overall game is actually fine. you know me well enough to know i dont look for 'scumtells' so much as i look for whether or not people's patterns of behaviour and decision-making/interpretation of the game aligns with a town or scum mindset
m88*888
still on phone and cant spidermeme feelsbadman-
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139 - im clarifying ur meaning, if you're intending to call out the scumteam or they're just 2 independent reads that dont impact the other
138 - im asking lemons a question because regardless of whatever alignment you are, wagons just being 'fast' isn't a scumtell. i firmly believe being good at mafia is about being good at processes, and getting a lucky good result from bad play isn't what i aim to teach people - especially not when i'm playing as an IC
137 - what's buddying about it? creature + destro is a pretty unlikely scumteam. destro's brand new, so if he's scum, the odds of him joining the game and then just hardbussing his teammate in Creature (and vice-versa) is such a remote possibility. that's why I said "if you're right" - meaning that if you're right about destro being scum, then creature's alignment i don't even need to think about. if destro is D1 lynch and is red, creature is basically conftown. the post really has nothing to do with you
not to mention i think if creature was scum he'd have more faith in his ability to win than to simply bus his newb buddy. so yeah, i really doubt the scumteam would be destro + creature, there's just too many things that conflict that line of thinking.-
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lemons will be another one of those RVS tunnels that turn out to be right. dude felt off really early, hasn't felt not-off and i'm like scarred for life for not lynching gameplay in the Normal you ran, where I thought to myself, "na, it's probably unlikely that I caught scum on page1" but really i caught scum on page1.
i catch scum on page1 enough times that i'm fairly sure it's not a fluke.-
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I've played like 4 games with him.In post 170, Creature wrote:Since when you learned to read Accountant?-
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I'm pretty good at differentiating between newbtown and newbscum, but only if wagons build fast and I see them play in earnest. I'm not all that interested in waiting around and being non-spontaneous for...I don't know what reason, because what better way to find scum than to give them the ultimate reason to start actually talking: a promising wagon. Votes are the most powerful influence for either alignment to start talking, and without people talking, everything just becomes a grey shady area where decisions are hard to make.In post 173, EccentricLemon wrote:
I agree that the thing that matters is that we hit scum but it's important to realize I think that this is a newbie game and we gotta a) take it easy and b) realize that straight out of the gate even townie newbs can sound scummy. I'm not really talking about myself, I've already played one game. Plus, we've got a lot of time left. I don't think now is the time to be spontaneous.In post 138, rb wrote: What's wrong with wagons being fast? If the goal is to lynch scum, isn't the thing that matters that we're hitting scum?-
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Clarify on the meaning of 'destro is something'?In post 192, Sagittarius wrote:Lemon's fine. Don't blame her for preferring the comfort of the picket fence instead of the prickly dead grass.
Destro is something. Don't feel like lynching him right now.
You still have this opinion?In post 101, Aatami wrote:I've only ever played part of one game, dont let my join date fool you lol
I'm not ready to vote lemon, I don't think the set up to tr or sr was intentional, and I want to see a little more.
I didn't like Handsome's opening at all, and there was no follow up, lots of filler, and the mention that he wasn't a noob felt weird? Very calculated.
I feel like this is a pretty safe stance to make on the leading wagon, whether destro flips scum or town and it seems to me that anyone's top priority right now would be to sort destro. I don't want to end games early, but why are you more interested in shifting focus OFF destro and onto someone else? Is it because you think destro's town? Or is he just your scumbuddy?-
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Why's he town then?In post 200, Sagittarius wrote:
It means he's something.In post 197, rb wrote: Clarify on the meaning of 'destro is something'?
I feel like this is a pretty safe stance to make on the leading wagon, whether destro flips scum or town and it seems to me that anyone's top priority right now would be to sort destro. I don't want to end games early, but why are you more interested in shifting focus OFF destro and onto someone else? Is it because you think destro's town? Or is he just your scumbuddy?
I said I didn't want to lynch him. So yes, I think he's town. And while I'm all for pressuring, everyone's already on his ass. Why are you discouraging discussion on other people?
Not all I said, mate. A big part of it is how unnatural it felt. You just went for the easier part to break down and ignored the rest of the read.Tarkus wrote:That’s a stretch. I just wanted to add my thoughts on it. If you think following up on my own posts is scummy, you’ll be reading me wrong all game.
I'm not diacouraging anything, I wanna know why you're taking no real stance on the leading wagon and then moving onto others. If it's because you think someone's town that's important, but 'he is something' is a really ambiguous thing that leaves you a lot of room to wriggle about your reluctance to vote for Destro later on, if he does get lynched today.-
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From an IC perspective there's no way to 'do it' you just do it. Ask questions of people, clarify their meanings, analyse points. Nothing's solid early game, you just have to fling some mud and see whose clothes come out dirty.In post 204, Aatami wrote:
I know, I meant I still wanted more from Lemons, I was just adding that I still feel this way about Destro.In post 196, Sagittarius wrote:But I didn't ask about Destro.
I want to pressure others, because for the time being this is sort of a dead end until we get some more to work with, but Im not quite sure how to do that any advice(this is to everyone), how can I effectively scumhunt without a ton of content or just look im repeating what others have said even if i agree?-
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Tbh I've never seen the BP claim thing Loopdan? In fact, how is this suddenly a thing you're insistent on when all of our previous newbie games together you haven't even suggested it at all?
I actually can't stand mechanical-clearing people and think it's a wholly shit way to teach newbies to play because matrix6 is designed to be a simplified manner in which they can learn how to scumhunt, not a setup to be exploited to try and get a win. Honestly the stupidest thing.-
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um can we lynch lemons? he isnt pushing, isnt voting and apparently doesnt have any reads either. this is scum territoryIn post 281, EccentricLemon wrote:It was just a vote left over from the RV stage. I'd honestly completely forgotten about it. When I was reminded of it, I decided not to move my vote. I think I've made it pretty clear at this point that I'm in no way pushing anything on Creature, nor is anyone else. I admit I was a bit rude and that was uncalled for.-
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lol wtfIn post 241, EccentricLemon wrote:I'll unvote him if you're so bothered by it. It doesn't matter either way for me.
UNVOTE: Creature-
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I refuse to teach players that the way to play mafia is to focus their efforts on trying to break down setups as opposed to reading and interacting with other players. It's how a bunch of people on this site play, and they're almost unanimously shit players who have low impact in every game they play and are terrible to be on a team with as either alignment.In post 295, Loopdan wrote:
Because it's a new strategy that was just recently proposed by RC and literally nobody has been able to show how it doesn't benefit town.In post 290, rb wrote:Tbh I've never seen the BP claim thing Loopdan? In fact, how is this suddenly a thing you're insistent on when all of our previous newbie games together you haven't even suggested it at all?
Allowing everyone else to claim not BP while you sat there not talking about itat allis very scummy. Now refusing to claim BP or not BP is even worse. If you are scum you have the benefit of hearing the claims of others without being forced to limit your own claims. It preserves your ability to fake-claim later.
You have until the end of your next post to either do the claim or satisfactorily explain how refusing to do so benefits town more than you claiming BP/no-BP.
RC's an idiot for bringing the strategy up, and obviously matrix6 is now due for an overhaul so that we don't end up with another generation of setup-speccing deadweights to the site. It benefits the players of this game to not rely on it, it benefits the entirety of MafiaScum to not teach newbies to play with these dumb strategies that are specific to specific setups. Any setup specific enough to warrant this type of play will have it known. We don't need to teach players to use gimmicks and the town winrates in newbie games are already fine.
How about you tell me how using and relying on this strategy actually improves a Newbie's learning experience of mafia, since that's the point of these games? How is reducing a bunch of new players to passively observing a strategy play out a better first game experience than to have them focus the bulk of their attentions on learning how to create activity and scumhunt/avoid being found?-
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lmao, you obviously don't understand me if you think I'd bend to some poor strategy just to appease the rest of the town. I've been force-replaced from games for my vitriol when presented with situations like this where I believe that the strategy being followed is just bad form i.e. it's a short-term exploit that no one really benefits from using, and degrades the quality of games overall.-
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At the point the BP claim strat was first mentioned by me, only 2 people had claimed (that I saw).In post 308, Fykus wrote:These discussions are best left for after the game or in some other discussion topic. Right now we're balls deep into day 1 with the bp claim strat already in place.
It's false to say I ignored it - it's a strat I disliked, and that a lot of people were NOT following. I disagreed with it, and it seemed that it wasn't really going ahead.
The strat picked up again and was assigned an arbitrary value of importance by Loopdan when he first replaced in. We're 'balls deep' in it because the strategy is being pushed, when previously I thought it had just fizzled out.
This shifting of focus by Loopdan onto the 'nonclaimers' as if they've been deliberately avoiding it, is fake and contrived. If not for the fact that I'm pretty sure the scum is in Lemons/Destro/Sag, I'd probably just vote at him. But realistically I really doubt that we don't hit 1 scum in those 3, and if the 2nd is still alive, we know where it is.
This is how I've always solved games, by finding a lynch order based on scumteams that I find unbelievable/impossible, and narrowing it down to the remaining. It's unconventional, but in games with 9-14 players I'm uncannily accurate and have found entire scumteams in all but 1 micro that I've played (i have 14 games with 9-14 players).
Call me anti-wincon, but this is a strategy that I know can be emulated and learned by newer players, that will actually improve them as players. Not a dud gimmick that helps propel them to a meaningless win in their first game.-
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No one was actually claiming when I first brought it up. 2 people had done it. This became a 'thing' only after your replace in, and this is the first chance I've had to reply to the game since that.In post 313, Loopdan wrote:Sure there's a chance. But the most damning thing is rb's failure to speak up when others were claiming prior. Often in Newbie games the experienced players go out of their way to make sure the ne'er players don't claim unnecessarily. If he was really unfamiliar with this new day1 claiming strategy, and he was town, I would expect town!rb to make a ruckus about this much easier in the game when everyone was dropping their BP claims.
Again this is fake and contrived, and a misrepresentation of how the game's actually progressed.-
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Haha ye ill post from my telepathic link that allows me to know whats happening in the game without actually having had time to read because I've had to either work or study.In post 306, Loopdan wrote:@Tykus-- You nailed it. rb can disagree with the strategy. That's fine. But it's not ok to watch everyone else claim if you disagree with it and you are town and you say nothing to stop it from progressing. There is no town motivation in that.
ca$h me ousside howbow dat-
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Wat.
Okay i see what's happened. My last post was 208 and I never got around to checking thread again until recently today. In between that time and your replace, there were more claims that I didn't see.
Again, what ruckus do you expect me to make if I'm not even here? It's not by your design the claims have happened, I get that now - but the statements that a town!rb would have made a ruckus or not sat by and let it happened? If it had happened while I was here, I'd have made one. I already expressed my dislike of it prior.-
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Ya, I wouldn't do it because I'm town and its conceivably anti wincon. I see it as pro-entirety-of-mafiascum but I'd like to keep my ability to IC games by not 'throwing' (as some ppl might construe it).In post 325, Fykus wrote:In post 226, Tarkus wrote:Unless I missed someone, right now we're at:
Accountant- not BP
Aatami- not BP
Fykus- not BP
Me- not BPIn post 227, Creature wrote:Not BP either.
hey lemons I just found your claim on the bottom of your big post, I think what happened was I thought that part was your profile signature thing lol.In post 234, EccentricLemon wrote: Not BP either by the way.
If you had I would of got you lynched because I'd of known you were lyingIn post 324, rb wrote:Kinda wish id just claimed BP to fuck with the game, but i know if i got lynched as town it sets a pretty shitty example as IC to lie as town and would be pretty demoralizing for the rest of the players and from a certain POV, anti-wincon.-
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