Newbie 1845 - A New Dawn Game Over

[thenavneet]

Hello! Just popping in quickly to say Hi. I'll read (or try to read) 33 pages tomorrow lol.

[thenavneet]

First off, massive apologies to the host and players for my absence. I have been traveling for the past 2 days ( something I did not take into consideration when I asked to join a queue for a game. Oops)

In the little time I've had to read, I've tried to catch up as fast as I can but 40+ pages is a LOT. I am ALMOST caught up but since the discussion has been heavily focused on meta arguments and what I can only describe as a dick- measuring contest between 2 people (RC and Sandro) i only really have thoughts about these 2 and to a lesser extent Inferno.

I'll start with Inferno - being so worried about what others think of the way they play sometimes comes across as defensive. However, the extent to which this was brought up and discussed earlier on makes me sympathize with them. I hope that aspect of their posts dies down because I remember reading some good content from them earlier on (I don't have exact quotes right now as I am writing this from a phone while waiting at St Louis for my next flight)

Next is Sandro - I have to say I don't necessarily see them coming across as particularly arrogant. The arguments about "bad SE" not withstanding, I've found myself agreeing with a lot of their posts. Now that doesn't mean I necessarily TownRead them. But, and pls correct me if I'm wrong, they replaced sheep's slot. And while reading sheep's posts was a combination of hilarity and cringe, I did see them as shit posting and haughty town. So I feel good about Sandro as of this post. (I've read till pg40)

Finally RC - I have to admit I see resemblances of someone I've played Mafia with before in them. And I HATED that person. They were an insufferable know-it-all and wanted everything to revolve around them. I fully admit it is hard to not let that bias seep in here. But I will give credit to RC that they really injected a fuckton of activity when they replaced in. Additionally, I saw glimpses of desperate townie in them when they were so fed up that they wanted to be lynched so that their flip will make the other players recalibrate their reads and move ahead.

My issue with them as of right now stems that they seemingly abandoned that when accused of being a "bad SE". I don't think their skill or experience can be denied here given how well written their posts are. However, I do feel like as long as this clash of egos exists, it will be very hard to form a coherent picture of what's going on. And at this point I do think that RCs flip gives more information even if it comes at the price of potentially mis-lynching a Town role ( they have hard claimed VT so it won't be a PR loss)

Once again I apologise for my absence. I return home tonight and will be much more active moving forward. And I did very much enjoy reading the early threads as someone relatively new to Mafia. I hope I'm able to integrate well here (on this site)

[thenavneet]

Also I don't know if I have a vote on anyone right now so I am unvoting just to be safe.

UNVOTE:

I will continue reading what I haven't yet but as of now I lean heavily towards an RC lynch.

[thenavneet]

I think it's entirely possible that the people involved in the discussion are town while the scum are just sitting back. Absolutely.

I also didn't say that I have no reads at all on the others. I just said my 3 main ones are the ones I posted. I also never said I want to get rid of both you and Sandro ( and Inferno?) I think because of your huge involvement so far and how people have reacted to you, your flip gives more information regardless of alignment.

Consider it a more risk averse approach. You have claimed VT. And there's people who think you're obvscum. Your flip says something about them.

On the other hand, let's say we end up lynching LUV. It's possible they are scum in which case YAY. But in the worse of the scenarios where they flip Town, we have to go through this entire circus one more time with the seeming conflict between you and other players still existent.

Does that make sense?

[thenavneet]

In the little time that you've been in this game RC, you have

- tried to pocket/get pocketed by another player as soon as you entered
- called out players as scum for the mere reason that they haven't interacted with you
- proclaimed yourself as the modern day messiah of a Mafia player
- gone out of your way to say you're right, that Town should blindly follow your reads and that we'll be fine
- suggested yourself that you should be lynched and when you flip Town that we should lynch from your scumpool of 3 people for Town victory
- got offended because someone disagreed with your playstyle and called you out on it
- you're now back tracking from your own suggested plan in a desperate attempt to direct the lynch on one of your scum reads using a LOT of WIFOM heavy arguments to varying degrees of "I wouldn't do X if I was Y"
- and you seem to get offended about everything and everytime someone disagrees with you.

I don't know about the other Town folk but I for one don't think you're presence is helpful here. Your FLIP however certainly will be and will shed light on things to help move us forward. Your problem at this point I think is that you just want the glory of saying you carried town to a win.

This will be my last post for a few hours as my flight is about to take off.

[thenavneet]

To expand on that comment about nav-

I wasn't particularly pleased with Sunset's posts to begin with (between wishy-washy reads, a scumtell comment about PRs, and then focusing on on Red who was the "obvious" scum read at the time, then fading away completely when the conversation got fast paced and casual), and nav came in with three town reads and then a metric shit ton of shade throwing at you, ending in a "policy lynch is best" and that bugs the shit out of me.

I can't do anything about the person who played my slot before I did. So im not gonna comment on that

I may have come across a bit harsh on RC but I haven't actually taken a definitive stance on his alignment. I've just noted what I felt was an unhelpful presence in the game for Town to get useful discussion going. Case in point: you seem to think I only have the three reads when I did explicitly state that I'm commenting on those 3 because they are clogging up the majority of the "airtime" if you will. Additionally I just don't like the flailing about that RC did based on how he approached the game ever since his self lynch stunt. I'm in no way defending LUV or RedFlavor here but I just think that game progression will be better if we're not constantly hung up on this conflict that exists right now.

[thenavneet]

If I'm an unhelpful presence in the thread, what are LUV and Redflavour doing nothing but repeatedly saying that I'm scum while neither of them has made any substantial contributions on my actions since joining?

They haven't done anything substantial (or if they have I can't remember) That's kinda part of my problem. Most of my stuff revolves around you because your posts stand out to me in a not-good way. And as someone who was struggling to figure out how I should contribute as I was reading the thread, things kept coming back to being revolved around you, your efforts, your reads, your contributions.

However, now that I have 19 more hours to figure stuff out, I can take a second look at more people and see if I can agree on a different lynch that I feel will help me moving forward (I literally JUST got home and am using a laptop after 3 freaking days)

[thenavneet]

If you want to influence the days lynch I strongly recommend you do your catchup and whatever now. Otherwise place a vote down.

I'm working on it!

[thenavneet]

Navneet has, for the record, been online for a lot of portions of the day without posting which is potentially them posting in scum PT

During the daytime I was on my phone trying my hardest to catch up. During the night I was trying to re-read. You're reading into things that aren't there. But given the things I have seen so far from you this isn't all that surprising.

I didn't end up posting anything because I fell asleep (oops) but i see that LUV is at L-1 right now so I'm going to put RC there too.

VOTE: RC

L-1

[thenavneet]

I am also here but at work so I will mostly be responding to things either specifically directed at me or if I see something pop out to me. Like this little exchange.

We'd still be down a vote.

Who from my wagon is gonna hammer red?

Sando or Naveet?

I do not see that happening.

I will admit I am not a fan of this somewhat rushed last minute train here but I am not overly a fan of Red so I wouldn't say I am completely against that. However I do think resolving RC v/s LUV puts us in a better position for the next day. I have made my stance of that clear by voting RC but either flip gives us information. I just think RC's is less risky as at worst we are hitting a claimed VT.

[thenavneet]

MVP DOC

Or jailkeepr.

[thenavneet]

Though I don't know how Doc saves are treated by the mods here. On a different site that I play on, if a Doc saves someone on the night that they are attacked, it gets announced.

[thenavneet]

MVP DOC

Or jailkeepr.

I'm kind of hoping it's doc though, becasue a doc claim along with whose saved is double confirmed town, while Jailkeeper can both save from NK and prevent ability. Which can leave a lot more room for interpreting what actually happened at night.
I think. That is what jailkeeper does, right?

I agree with this. If Jailkeeper jailed someone and that led to a missing kill, it could either mean scum attacked the person jailed OR the person jailed themselves was scum sent out for the kill.

[thenavneet]

Also I am not a huge fan of the LUV speed lynch. RC was 100% sure they would flip scum but just because RC flipped town doesn't mean we should treat their word as gospel.

RedFlavor's vote here especially is a bit sus to me as they were convinced RC was scum at end of D1 and now are seemingly piggybacking off of RC's last words.

[thenavneet]

Also I am not a huge fan of the LUV speed lynch. RC was 100% sure they would flip scum but just because RC flipped town doesn't mean we should treat their word as gospel.

RedFlavor's vote here especially is a bit sus to me as they were convinced RC was scum at end of D1 and now are seemingly piggybacking off of RC's last words.

I'm the last person on earth who wants to defend Flavor, but the logic in this statement is flawed. Flavor was convinced RC was scum, but got confirmation it was the opposite. Why would this not change Flavor's reads in favor of what RC was saying?

it's one thing to change reads after seeing someone's flip. It's another to take a dead Townie's reads as Gospel.

When people like you, Inferno, Sando want to lynch LUV, I get that. You guys were actively thinking of the information put out there by RC during last phase and were voicing your thoughts on the matter.

RedFlavor was derptunneling (as someone said) that RC is scum and asking others to vote him. He gave no indication of thinking anything else was happening.

Now after the flip, he's just piggybacking on what were RC's last words and what he expected to happen today.

I saw this as opportunistic and essentially a desperate attempt to sweep under the rug that Red contributed next to nothing last Day and imo continues to do so here today.

[thenavneet]

You are saying that I should not vote LUV because I thought RC was scum. How does that make sense

I am not saying you should not vote LUV. Nor am I saying you SHOULD vote LUV. I am saying that from MY perspective the way in which you did a complete 180 from yesterday is suspicious. What I saw was this

Red on D1 - RC is definitely scum. Lynch him!!!111
Red on D2 - LUV is definitely scum. Lynch him!!!!111

There was no explanation as to why you are just accepting that LUV is scum after pushing so hard that RC was scum. To expand more, I imagine that you found RC's behavior scummy or disagreed with his reads during D1 when you didn't know his role. Why does all of that magically disappear just because RC flipped town? Like sure you now know that you were wrong about RC's alignment (as were a lot of people so this isn't me singling you out) But why does that mean that you now ignore everything that you thought on D1 and just go with what RC said. I don't see how you got from point A to point B and if you can explain it to me or even say anything at all about it, I would appreciate it.

Also I am not a huge fan of the LUV speed lynch. RC was 100% sure they would flip scum but just because RC flipped town doesn't mean we should treat their word as gospel.

RedFlavor's vote here especially is a bit sus to me as they were convinced RC was scum at end of D1 and now are seemingly piggybacking off of RC's last words.

This.

Pre-flip associations are almost always a bad idea guys. They require assumptions about knowledge that you don't actually have, which lead to very faulty reasoning and mistaken beliefs about how likely a given player actually is to be scum.

I have no room to talk though and knew this was coming.

Don’t agree with nav calling out Red. Red tunneling me is exactly what I would expect from a newbie after RC’s flip.

I don't agree with the reasoning that X would do something because they are a newbie. I'm a newbie too and I sure as fuck am not just jumping on a lynch just because a dead Townie told me to do it.

[thenavneet]

I'm stuck in terrible WIFOM on creature right now. LUV's calling creature out as town today is giving me real "bussing by bud so he doesn't get the lynch tomorrow." But since creature is not high on anyone's scumlist anyways, I'm also thinking that LUV knows his time is up and is trying to influence a mislynch on creature tomorrow.
Anyone want to shine some light on this?

There hasn't been enough from Creature for me to have a definitive opinion. I don't think he is Town just because he voted LUV on D1. If and when LUV gets lynched then it's something to revisit tho.

[thenavneet]

Welp.

Thanks for hammering as I will be busy over the weekend lol.

[thenavneet]

This is a pre awful situation. I'm traveling till tomorrow so I will have more thoughts then. But first instinct is that we need everyone (absolutely EVERYONE) to contribute something meaningful today before we start placing lynch votes.

[thenavneet]

Maybe other mafia is creature or navneet, idk

Red on D1: RC is mafia. Vote him!!!
Red on D2: LUV is mafia. Vote him!!!
Red on D3: TBD

Town MVP right here.

[thenavneet]

I know I said that everyone needs to contribute and I haven't done so myself. I will have some time later tonight to like sit down and put my thoughts down.

Sorry. Been really busy lately here.

[thenavneet]

Hello. Sorry. As I said I've been sick (healthwise)

I have not had time to re-read thoroughly

I will say this. Sunlit has obviously claimed Tracker and I see no CCs. I think that since we are in MyLo, we should try to find Sunlit's partner (if we think he is Scum). Essentially what I'm saying is, we have to consider the possibility that Sunlit was the Mafia NK target for N1 (though it IS confusing why Mafia would choose to do this tbh, I personally would have gone for Sando) Like I think that since we ARE in MyLo, we might as well go for the more idealistic route of trying to find Mafia other than Sunlit. If we happen to hit a Mafia PR (I believe Rolecop? I would have to check) then that pretty much confirms Sunlit as Town. If we hit a Goon, we can revisit the Sunlit situation next day when we would, presumably, still be in MyLo with 4 people left (My math might be off, I'm on very little sleep)

My top Town read is Sando by a mile and I've been saying that since D1. I'd have to read the ISOs of Red, avi to form an opinion there but I do remember thinking Red looked really bad. Creature, much like myself, has been a non-entity so it would be a shot in the dark.

Once again, I apologize for not being able to participate more. It's somewhat out of my hands.

[thenavneet]

I read avi's ISO and have a slight town lean on him.

Red's ISO is next.

[thenavneet]

OMG I didn't hit submit on this stupid post and it's not even that long -.-

I don't really like Red's ISO at all. There isn't anything all that useful there and this struck me as odd

Also what Im thinking is after that town flip, if we have a jailkeeper they probably jailkept LUV. Also LUV wanting to nolynching seems like they need to do more investigations. So there are probably mafia rolecop. That gives me B Row 3 and there are also tracker in that setup and they probably tracked me after RC calling them to investigate me. But this is just a guess

There are multiple setups with JailKeeper. Why did Red come to the conclusion that this one is the one with RoleCop? Given that Sunlit has now claimed Tracker, if Sunlit is town, this does indeed seems to be the case. There is something really weird to me about this hypothesizing by Red and now the Tracker claim by Sunlit. I don't THINK this would be a calculated attempt by both.

[thenavneet]

So are we lynching creature or no lynching

No lynching is an option, although doesn't gain much if Scum don't kill.

Whoever made the point about hoping that non-sunlit scum today flips as a Rolecop and confirms Sunlit is our best chance to be honest.

That was me. Hello!

Yeah let's lynch sunlit

No my point was not lynch Sunlit. Whilst I'm fairly ok on him being scum, there's at least one scum out there other than him and we can't mislynch again anyway. If we lynch a scum and it's a role-cop then Sunlit is town-confirmed. If we hit a role-blocker (hugely unlikely) then Sunlit is scum-confirmed without needing a counter claim. If we hit goon then sunlit is in the same position, but now scum have to decide whether to ignore Sunlit and risk being tracked to keep pressure on them, or hit the tracker and confirm someone as town that we mostly think is scum.

Not a great chance of actually making a difference, but a slim chance is better than none, and it costs us nothing.

I was going to say pretty much this. I don't think we should be lynching Sunlit today. Even IF Sunlit is scum, he still has a partner out there. If Town wants a chance to win, we need to gamble and try to find the non-Sunlit scum because based on that flip we learn a lot of things and then whoever the scum left has to decide who to kill. If that scum happens to be Sunlit he has to come up with fake Tracker results (which, while not hard to do, the way he does it will give some more information to us)

I am not ENTIRELY opposed to no-lynch however as that once again puts scum in a spot where they have to decide what to do. In the event that Sunlit is actually the tracker, do they kill him and confirm him as Town. Doing that changes how people will look at the game on next day because then we have to find a PAIR. Which I think will provide the chance for looking at the game differently. If they don't Night Kill town!Sunlit then hopefully town!Sunlit can get some information and we can go from there.

My strongest Town read is Sando. My slight town lean is avi. And thus my top lynch candidates as of now are Red and Creature. I don't know which I would prefer of the two just yet.

[thenavneet]

I am not ENTIRELY opposed to no-lynch however as that once again puts scum in a spot where they have to decide what to do.

Problem here is why would scum submit a kill? We're already in lylo (I think, the one where we mislynch and you def lose), so they don't need to kill. We have a tracker, a (conveniently) useless PR if nothing gets submitted, and even if Sunlit is tracker, well scum don't exactly need to role-cop do they.

I believe we are in MyLo right now where we lose with a mislynch.

If scum don't submit a kill we're just back to the drawing board again haha. I didn't actually consider scum No Killing though so you have a good point. I still wouldn't lynch Sunlit today though.

[thenavneet]

Red, regardless of if you think Sunlit is scum or not, do you agree the better play is to try and find his partner/the other Mafia member today?

[thenavneet]

2 lynch votes on Creature already in a MyLo situation. Red and avi

This should be a clear indication that there can be at most 1 Mafia in Sando, Sunlit and thenavneet (me)

Could be useful down the line.

[thenavneet]

Question/curiosity about strategy.

I don't know why scum would go out of their way to vote for their partner right now (meaning, why would scum!Red or scum!Avi push a vote on scum!Creature when they could push on literally anyone else and win the game). Scum haven't had to do a damn thing to get us to this point and they know who the remaining town PR is- what would they gain by bussing?

It's a slippery slope to think why scum would do X over Y. I suppose from your POV, you know there are 2 scum besides you so you're looking for hints of bussing, distancing etc. But given that we're in MyLo and even if we lycnh right today we will still be in MyLo at the start of D4, scum have a little room to play with how they want to approach this.

From my POV, I am hard townreading Sando and have been since D1 basically. Reading avi's ISO makes me feel good about him. So for me the 2 scum are between Sunlit (you), Creature and Red.

I've been trying to think of possible scum teams and the only one I can rule out is Sunlit (you) and Red. I feel like with your Tracker claim and what Red said earlier, it's unlikely you two are together. Which means Creature is almost definitely scum by PoE (if I can trust my Town readds of Sando and avi of course) So I am mostly ok with a Creature vote. But I don't want to bring him to L-1 just yet.

[thenavneet]

I feel like with your Tracker claim and what Red said earlier, it's unlikely you two are together.

Explain this one for me? We don't actually know that we have a tracker, it could be 2xgoon and a JK, making the entire setup a scum concoction that we can't actually prove through flips, in which case I'd read red's earlier talk about setup as a pretty clear Red+Sunlit team possibility. Or do you mean different "red said earlier"?

So in this scenario, Sunlit is lying about being a Tracker. But since there is no Tracker counterclaim (or any PR counter claim whatsoever) the setup would be 2 Goons and the rest of us are all VT. But Red brought up a Mafia Rolecop scenario, seemingly out of nowhere. The only Town PR claim that fits in with the Rolecop setup is a Tracker (correct me if I'm wrong) I felt like if Red and Sunlit were the scum team, they would not be this blatant? Like one would bring up one setup and the other would bring up a different one? That was my line of thinking at least. I try to put myself in scum's shoes and think how I would approach the situation. And I wouldn't appear THIS organized with my partner. Maybe that's not the right way to think but it's what I do.

Given I think that:
a) Sunlit is right, scum wouldn't bus at this point
b) thenav is about the only person I'd put money on town
c) double scum would not vote someone right now, nor hold it this long
d) therefore it's either 1 scum on the wagon 1 not, or 2 scum off
e) if it's 1 scum on they're not voting their partner, so it's not creature, and I'd leave out thenav, I think most would leave me out, leaving...Sunlit paired with Avi or Red
f) if it's 2 townies, then with thenav as clear as I can get, that leaves creature and sunlit as scum.

To my mind, it's red or creature paired with Sunlit. My personal preference would be to lynch one of these, assuming we hit scum and assuming there's a NK and assuming the lynched scum is a goon, if Sunlit gets a guilty, you have it at a 50/50 between Sunlit and that person, if sunlit gets a nothingburger, lynch sunlit regardless. If sunlit is killed well I think we just got a whole bunch of info out of today.

oh and g) scum would def point out that scum wouldn't bus right now then bus right after...

You and I are thinking on the same lines as far as possible scum teams go. I think if I bank on my Townread of avi, Creature is scum in most of my possible worlds. So that is likely where I will put my vote. And hopefully his flip helps us solve the game in a D4 MyLo.

[thenavneet]

Alright well I was not expecting a replacement this late.

Transcend welcome to the game! Unfortunately I think your slot is very very likely to be scum and even though I like your spunk I can't completely erase that read and start over. We have established that lynching Sunlit today isn't optimal for town so for me it's between red and you.

[thenavneet]

Guess this is down to me and you nav, I'm leaning Red, but Transcends read of the RC wagon and Sunlit's involvement is fairly off-base up there...

I'm actually leaning Transcend because like I alluded earlier, I don't see a Red and Sunlit scum team. They would have to be too organized in their stories and at the same time they have been going at each other. It doesn't feel SvS to me at all.

I think with deadline so close I have to put my money where my mouth is because no lynch is bad I'm.

VOTE: transcend

[thenavneet]

Nav: is my slot still scum if sun is town? Because your read on me seems contingent on sun being scum.[/quote]

Like you aren't saying anything about my slot itself, you're just using poe (process of elimination) and that's not a good thing to do. Sun hasn't flipped red yet, and alluding to me being scum when he hasn't even flipped yet is not a wise move.

It IS based on PoE but it's not contingent on Sunlit being scum. I thought I mentioned this that the possible teams in my head are Sunlit+Creature (transcend) and red+creature (transcend)

In my fever ridden state last week I ISOed Avi. While the content isn't much, I do townlean him. So the PoE only leaves 3 people for me to be possible scum and you (your slot) is the highest offs of hitting scum.

[thenavneet]

How on Earth do you figure Red and Transcend are a team?

Partly PoE. Partly today's voting. Sando had brought up a good point about bussing earlier.

[thenavneet]

Well take this for a lesson in the future since i think you're town

Do not make team reads before someone has flipped

Not a good idea.

I disagree with this especially in a MyLo. It helps a lot to think of teams instead of one particular individual being scummy. Especially given how crucial votes are in a MyLo, I think it's more beneficial to think how an X and Y scum team would approach this.

[thenavneet]

also i hate to use wifom (wine in front of me) But if I'm mafia here, i would self hammer to avoid any more hints to my partner being given.

I like WIFOM as much as the next guy but it messes up reads for me a lot and is a huge reason why I wanted RC lynched on D1 because he could NOT stop stroking his own dick with all of the WIFOM stemming from how great a player he is.

[thenavneet]

Transcend, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. This game started off on a really bad note for Town when RC came in and led a wagon on LUV being 100% certain that he was scum and then LUV did little to nothing to correct that. With so few people left, I'm relying on a combination of PoE, other townleans and lack of effort on Creatures part. It's not exactly FAIR to you perse but we'll such is the game.

[thenavneet]

Super happy that Transcend flipped Rolecop. I'm pretty sold on Red being the other Mafia here. I think he scumslipped with his Mafia Rolecop theory that I had posted earlier

I don't really like Red's ISO at all. There isn't anything all that useful there and this struck me as odd

Also what Im thinking is after that town flip, if we have a jailkeeper they probably jailkept LUV. Also LUV wanting to nolynching seems like they need to do more investigations. So there are probably mafia rolecop. That gives me B Row 3 and there are also tracker in that setup and they probably tracked me after RC calling them to investigate me. But this is just a guess

There are multiple setups with JailKeeper. Why did Red come to the conclusion that this one is the one with RoleCop? Given that Sunlit has now claimed Tracker, if Sunlit is town, this does indeed seems to be the case. There is something really weird to me about this hypothesizing by Red and now the Tracker claim by Sunlit. I don't THINK this would be a calculated attempt by both.

It will be easier in 3 ways because scum will probably kill a person who has been TR'ed by most people and that person will confirmed town and this should leave others with enough informations


VOTE: /nolynch

Also we dont have to end the day early

This ... doesn't really make sense to me? Why would scum kill at all in a MyLo situation with no PRs left ...

[thenavneet]

Does me outing the setup as scum makes sense to you? Why

Also scum should kill someone to avoid draw

My point was, if you are a VT, how did you know the setup so accurately at a time where there hadn't been any claims or any non-VT flips. I'm saying that you knowing that is an indication of you having more information than others and you let it slip. Hence "scumslip"

Maybe this is something I am unaware of but I don't see how it draws? Like I don't know if this site does things differently but in a situation where Town mislynches today and we have 3 going into the night, Mafia can kill 1 and if it's 1 Town 1 Mafia left at start of next day then that is a win for Mafia. That is how I have seen it done before on other sites.

[thenavneet]

Not much new to say right now except I'll say that I don't see myself voting against Sando here. I've TR'ed him since Day 1. It's still between Red and avi for me with a very strong lean against Red.

[thenavneet]

Not much new to say right now except I'll say that I don't see myself voting against Sando here. I've TR'ed him since Day 1. It's still between Red and avi for me with a very strong lean against Red.

What if you were wrong since d1?

Then I lose. Asking a question like this doesn't seem helpful lol.

[thenavneet]

I'm traveling to LA today so I be more active when I get back at night

[thenavneet]

Thenav, since discussion is hard to come by, what'd you think of Sunlit's take that Inferno was obv-JK based on his first D2 post, in light of Sunlit being truthful about that? I think Sunlit was the only person at that point in time with knowledge of what happened 100% since he was blocked and therefore either the target or no-kill. Think scum would reasonably deduce JK involvement and who it was? Think reasonable for VT to deduce JK involvement and who it was?

I don't see Inferno's post at the start of the day as obv JK. From Sunlit's perspective, yes. From a VT's, no.

Alright boys I still think red is the scum

I want to townread you so I would like a little more content from you.

[thenavneet]

Thenav, since discussion is hard to come by, what'd you think of Sunlit's take that Inferno was obv-JK based on his first D2 post, in light of Sunlit being truthful about that? I think Sunlit was the only person at that point in time with knowledge of what happened 100% since he was blocked and therefore either the target or no-kill. Think scum would reasonably deduce JK involvement and who it was? Think reasonable for VT to deduce JK involvement and who it was?

I don't see Inferno's post at the start of the day as obv JK. From Sunlit's perspective, yes. From a VT's, no.

Alright boys I still think red is the scum

I want to townread you so I would like a little more content from you.

What do you think about avi's vote being on creature for whole time?

I realized something about avi and Ill post it later

I think given the general lethargy of this game, trying to frame something like that as AI is a bit of a stretch.

[thenavneet]

VOTE: red

[thenavneet]

I'm here, I honestly don't really know what to say, I've tried to move this, any arguments are just ignored by the other people. My vote is where it is, I'd be more than happy with a Red lynch at this stage.

You made great arguments imo.

[thenavneet]

Thanks for the game! I do apologize about my very minimal activity. When I saw the early threads with sheep and Inferno posting a LOT I was very overwhelmed (and I WAS traveling)

I do agree that scum got really lucky with all the TvT infighting. I can learn a lot from this game on a re-read about how Town approached this game is asking questions and analyzing reactions. Overall it was enjoyable for me. Thanks again.

[thenavneet]

The day 4 "take a long time, don't really do anything, and then just more or less pile onto red for reasons taht I don't think were ever really stated and fleshed out" was also bad

Scum - was me or Sunlit right about Inferno? Was the JK/Tracker read obvious from his first post D2?

His post at the END of the day was basically a hardclaim. In the beginning it wasn't obvious to me. Creature had caught onto Sunlit being a PR during D1 itself which is why Sunlit was our first Nightkill target (even though I preferred you, Sando)

Also sorry about dragging the game by a day lol. I thought that my posts showed enough natural progression to justify a Creature/Red scum team but since I laid out that it could be a Creature-Sunlit scum team and lynching Sunlit didn't make sense that day I felt like I had to go with lynching the Creature slot to not push my goodwill with you too much.

[thenavneet]

I thought that my posts showed enough natural progression to justify a Creature/Red scum team

Yeah I think if you were the rolecop then it was 100% the right decision, the only issue was going to be this:

The only thing pinging me atm is that Red pushed Sunlit+Creature pretty hard, when with the rolecop being lynched, Sunlit HAD to die overnight, leaving no viable target for Red to lead a mislynch against.

This was pinging me more and more, and I think if Avi/Red had picked it up I would have eventually been talked around to lynching you. I threw it out there but no-one was engaging except you, I should have trusted gut more, but I just felt I wasn't getting anywhere in a 3-way and I needed to eliminate someone and I knew in my heart you could have had Red dead the day before. But I fell into the same trap as Sunlit, projecting information I had onto other people.

With Creature/Trans being the rolecop, borderline decision, but you'd done good work on D3 either way, I don't think any decision was the obvious right/wrong call.

That's a good point. I was only considering what I would be pushing. Not what a possible scum!Red could or would be pushing. It's a good thing for me to note in the future.

[thenavneet]

I'm used to Scum having a personal forum to talk to during the day phase so it wasn't anything out of the norm for me.