Newbie 1864: Seals (Game Over)

[singersigner]

Math. The point is you said you 1. Are good at finding PRs, and 2. scumread PRs as town. My point was, YEAH I KNOW but you ignoring the obvious made it feel like you were just trying to be intentionally dense and allowing the push to happen. I wasny trying to be obvious to you until you brought it up as something that made me scummy.

Why wouldn't I have played the way I did as a PR?

[singersigner]

Oh, and yeah, the mod thing I felt in poor taste because you either believed me or you didn't, but then you started ragging on moderating process without anything to back it up except your own assumptions. When I tried to correct you, you kept pushing it as a thing that made me scummy instead of dropping it. I said as much at the time, but your inability to see why I'd be upset about it was also something I felt you'd purposefully ignore as scum just to make me look worse.

I also mentioned this in both threads, but scum need the last word to maintain control of the game. I've caught a lot of scum like that in that 1v1s. My downfall is that I can't seem to get people to recognize why that's scummy, lol.

[singersigner]

I also didn't mind you were the de facto IC. I had to stay alive as a PR so I didn't want too much of the spotlight.

[Mathdino]

Math. The point is you said you 1. Are good at finding PRs, and 2. scumread PRs as town. My point was, YEAH I KNOW but you ignoring the obvious made it feel like you were just trying to be intentionally dense and allowing the push to happen. I wasny trying to be obvious to you until you brought it up as something that made me scummy.

Why wouldn't I have played the way I did as a PR?

- I would never have caught you being a PR as town, I think. I've been that dense. Also I lowkey think the "constant allusion to being a PR" comes more often from scum than town? Scum doesn't have to worry about actually getting NK'd, while TPRs do.
Westward early on was like "lynch me if you want to lose", which struck me as a PR tell (and kinda made me ignore other possibilities there). I think if I were town I'd have pushed that even harder as a result . As scum I just didn't want to deal with claim drama.

- Just a gut thing. A lot of your posts drew a lot of unnecessary attention to yourself, figured you'd intentionally play more lowkey/observant as a PR. I say that not having had any sort of profile on your play, so I was really just using "generic profile of reasonably experienced logicky player".

[Mathdino]

Oh, and yeah, the mod thing I felt in poor taste because you either believed me or you didn't, but then you started ragging on moderating process without anything to back it up except your own assumptions. When I tried to correct you, you kept pushing it as a thing that made me scummy instead of dropping it. I said as much at the time, but your inability to see why I'd be upset about it was also something I felt you'd purposefully ignore as scum just to make me look worse.

I also mentioned this in both threads, but scum need the last word to maintain control of the game. I've caught a lot of scum like that in that 1v1s. My downfall is that I can't seem to get people to recognize why that's scummy, lol.

- You getting upset about it dug your own hole, yeah. People tend to scumread flailing much more in newbie games, so I figured if I kept a level head in a 1v1 I wouldn't really ever be at a disadvantage. After a certain point I just let others do the pushing for me.
I made those assumptions thinking that would make me look more genuine. The longshot hope was that you'd see me as engaged in a dumb tunnelly TvT fight.

- I think that's a nulltell for me but I haven't analysed my own 1v1s to back that up. I get in a lot of 1v1s that I try to back down from but then get sucked right back in because I'm paranoid that scum is ALSO trying to maintain control of the game.

[singersigner]

When I'm back at the computer I'm going to point out everything you asked me to answer with the intent of twisting it to fit your singer-scum narrative.

[Garuga]

Did we loop back into D1 or something? I thought the game was already over. There's no need for the scumhunting goddess to continue scumhunting.

[singersigner]

Did we loop back into D1 or something? I thought the game was already over. There's no need for the scumhunting goddess to continue scumhunting.

I mean...if you don't think there's anything to learn from it I won't bother, but I want people to see what scum looks like knowing alignment. It's not like anyone listened to me when I was alive...

[singersigner]

ceejayvinoya: your sense of urgency at the beginning of the game immediately struck me as town. Newbie scum tend to be more passive and wait for guidance to run with the game. You asked a lot of good, inquisitive questions that made me feel like you were really trying to parse through the game, even if you were a bit impressionable at times.

ranagrande: being a powerrole as a newbie is hard, but I do think you played a very balanced game of staying out of the limelight while being engaged enough to not take heat. I think you jumped the gun a bit on the claim bit with Quick and the doctor bit, but that's hard to navigate. I'd probably aim to corner someone you think is trying to drop a hint of a claim to confirm before going there.

stan1ey: Sorry dude! You were exactly what I said: PoE. I just felt strongly enough on everyone else town and felt that Quick/Math wouldn't make the kill so you were what's left. Can't really say you were playing badly, just luck of the draw. Your claim was pretty good, though. I stand by 1:1 being better for town in the long run but after my 1:1 with Math I decided I wasn't just going to take it so props to you.

Garuga: Dude...I don't know how anyone could be so townie right off the bat, lol. Math championing for you the whole time actually really help with that, but he did what people call "pocketing" these days. He set his sights on you and nursed your towniness in a way that he could profit the most from it. Not that you could've done anything about it, but it did set you up to be the obvious NK eventually because you likely would've come to the right conclusion eventually with the way you were willing to critically look at the game.

WestwardBound/ManateeDude: Well...not much to say here other than please don't vote yourself as town. Even if your lynch is inevitable, the reason why it's a scum strategy to hammer themselves is because it shuts down conversation and there's less chance of incriminating their partners accidentally. That goes for both them saying anything more, and for not putting their buddy in a position to have to comment on their wagon in a way that could get them caught.

Elvi: You could definitely do with posting more! I know it's intimidating in your first game, and you don't always know what people are talking about, but y ou can always yell at us to stop spamming or to slow things down. I appreciate you sticking around and hope you'll get to play more. Thanks for making the right decision in the end.

ArcAngel9/Quick: AA9 is just someone I have no interest in playing with ever for this exact reason. Quick...I mean, you could've met us halfway sometimes but again, I think that's just your personality. You came in claiming a PR should be on you which just set off my scumdar because that wouldn't have accomplished anything other than a cop inno, which then you're just confusing newbies. Sorry you got quick lynched. It definitely shouldn't have happened that way.

Mathdino: I think I've said all I can say. I don't know if you think you got caught for the wrong reasons (which is definitely a bummer!), but you did play a pretty stellar game. I couldn't swim against you and that was pretty clear. I got the Paragon Scummy in 2015 for all the 1v1s I got myself into, but I guess I'd attribute that to playing with more experienced players who would eventually believe me, lol. I'd caution against using BoP, though. That's what pinged me first when you asked about my rate of reading newbies. Since each game/player is different, and to say that someone who's been historically good at nailing newbie scum is a huge fallacy for using it as a metric. It might've worked for you thus far, but unless you're willing to factor in other things like setup, frequency of play, etc, you're just setting up someone for failure. Thor may be the exception to the rule, lol.

Good game everyone. I'm sorry for my part in making it less than fun to read at times. I do think that's something everyone should learn to critically think about, though, since there will be times where scum will try to take advantage of that situation and it will create apathy. I just got sucked into my inability to shake the L-1 which meant I couldn't just ignore it like I would've wanted to (hence why I looked on the defensive the whole game...couldn't really get lynched as the Tracker D1!). I hope you can forgive my start of the game (both being gone at a conference and misreading the timestamps) as that set the whole downhill spiral for me. It's really hard being a PR as an IC because you don't want to get NKed, but then if Math was town he would've BoPd me on D2 saying I should've died N1 anyway. Oh well.

[mhsmith0]

The JK and tracker targeting the entire scumteam was a damn death sentence.

Not to discount the victory but this particular iteration of the setup was very townsided. Tracker is more powerful in micros than usual and jailkeeper is super powerful in general. Mafia Role Cop in a micro doesn't do much when massclaim usually happens on D2 anyway. C'est la vie.

FWIW I tend to agree that this particular setup is the most townsided of all 9 new setups.

OTOH I've run this twice as a mod and wolves won both ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Mathdino]

Mathdino: I think I've said all I can say. I don't know if you think you got caught for the wrong reasons (which is definitely a bummer!), but you did play a pretty stellar game. I couldn't swim against you and that was pretty clear. I got the Paragon Scummy in 2015 for all the 1v1s I got myself into, but I guess I'd attribute that to playing with more experienced players who would eventually believe me, lol. I'd caution against using BoP, though. That's what pinged me first when you asked about my rate of reading newbies. Since each game/player is different, and to say that someone who's been historically good at nailing newbie scum is a huge fallacy for using it as a metric. It might've worked for you thus far, but unless you're willing to factor in other things like setup, frequency of play, etc, you're just setting up someone for failure. Thor may be the exception to the rule, lol.

I don't think I can ever say people catching me on gut (when they otherwise are willing to townread my playstyle) is me getting caught for the wrong reasons . I'm aware I can be gutread, and that's probably my current weakness.

In a way I'm actually kinda proud that CJV/Elvi caught me for the RIGHT reasons. They were right that
- I should've died N3
- My associatives with stanley were no bueno
- Both of them were townier than I was (go PoE!)
- All the walls I could write in the world were NAI when there's another player present that's easier to read

With your catching me, while I think the 1v1s and PR stuff was all NAI and technically town-indicative for me, I think you're hitting at one of my favourite scumtells: predatory questioning. You're right that I was unfairly setting you up to look bad continuously. And if that pinged you, gj gj gj. I just think you're articulating it in a way that misinterprets my playstyle/meta

[Quick]

Mathdino, can you give us a quick rundown about the strategy? I haven't heard about it yet.

Flipped a coin 3 times, got heads 3 times:
VOTE: singersigner

- The idea is that if the Tracker claims at some point during D1 (doesn't have to be literally right now) it benefits them in most situations. The setup is flawed.
If it's Tracker/Doc, the Doc knows to protect the tracker forever and the Tracker can just feed us results. This is the strongest scenario.
If it's Tracker/JK, the JK can protect the Tracker, and the Tracker will know there's a JK because they got no results. 2 confirmed town down the line, prevents scum from fakeclaiming.
If it's Tracker/Cop... the tracker probably dies, but it protects the Cop and gives Cop a night to get results, giving us either 2 confirmed town by D2 or a cop and a guilty. This is the weakest scenario.
I've been working on the calculations for a while now. I think it only raises theoretical winrate by like a couple percentage points, but the main draw is having a confirmed town on D1 that, 2/3 of the time, won't die N1, and preventing scum from fakeclaiming down the line.

- Was your vote actually random?

Meh. I don't hate it, but I also don't have any experience with this setup yet so I can't speak to its success-rate. I've personally never been a fan of PRs claiming D1 unless it's a last resort to not get mislynched so I wouldn't want to put any potential PRs in a position to do so.

I feel pretty comfy saying:

1. Mathdino/Singer never SvS
   
2. One of them probably Scum here

I really should have stuck by this and not WIFOMed myself into thinking Singer and Math could be SvS.

[singersigner]

Probably, lol.

[ManateeDude]

I really enjoyed this game, but I think I'm sticking with my homesite. 2 week days are too much for me

[PenguinPower]

Congratulations to the victors!

The game has drawn to a close, the jig is up! Some of you have lost, but others have won!

Take a few days, think about the game. Recognize what was best in your teammates and opponents, and consider nominating them for a Scummy! Players and mods in this game may be eligible for one of the following awards:

BODY OF WORK AWARDS

Best Mafia Catcher

: Also known as the Paragon of Mafia Hunters, this award is given to the single town player who, across all of their games for the year, exhibited the best ability for nailing those dirty scumbags and bringing the bad guys to justice while playing as a pro-town role.

Rising Star

: This award is given to the player that is a rising star in the game of mafia, showing great promise to join the elite echelon of mafia players. This award replaces both the Best Newbie award and Most Improved Player awards, and judges may consider elements of both those previous awards in deciding this award.

Excellent Moderation

: Also known as the “The Modfather” Award. This award is given to the moderator who, over the course of the past year, exemplifies the best qualities of a moderator in the operation of the game, including but not limited to quality and frequency of vote counts, organization of the game, dealing with issues that arise, keeping players active, and so forth. Judges may consider how challenging the games a moderator ran were, but they shall not penalize a moderator for only running more basic games. A mod must run at least 3 games to completion in the calendar year to be considered for this award.

SINGLE GAME - PLAYER

Most Cunning Manipulator

: Also known as the “Don Corleone” Award. Awarded to the player who has the strongest single game performance as mafia. In rare cases, where a player feels an entire scumteam gelled to create a strong cohesive scum performance, multiple members of a team may be nominated.

Best Performance Third Party

: Also known as the “Hannibal Lecter” Award. Awarded to the player or players that performed the most impressively in winning their game as a third party.

Most Memorable Event

: Also known as the “Kodak Moment” Award. Awarded to the player or players who were involved in the most memorable event in a game of mafia. Fake claims, funny claims, awesome exchanges, etc. may all be considered for this award

SINGLE GAME - MODERATOR

Best Setup

: Also known as the “Rube Goldberg” Award. Given to the moderator who designed the best setup. Judges may consider the roles involved in a game, how those roles interacted, how balanced a setup was, whether it furthered any particular theme, how the setup interacts with a mechanic, or any other factors the judges deem relevant. This award is distinct, however, from the “Best Mechanic” award in that it does not consider how good or bad any change to the basic way a Mafia game is played.

Best Flavor Text

: Also known as the “Paperback Writer” Award. Given to the moderator who wrote the most compelling flavor text. Judges should consider the flavor text of all parts of the game, including Role PMs and Day/Night scenes. Where appropriate, Judges may consider how well the flavor works with the announced theme.

Best Mechanic/Mutation

: Also known as the "Mad Scientist” Award. Given to the moderator who figured out the most compelling way to change the basic mechanics of the game of mafia, and/or created the most compelling new role or adaptation to increase player enjoyment. Judges shall consider both the basic idea behind the game as well as how well it was executed, and the uniqueness and quality of the role/adaptation.

SITE AWARDS

Game of the Year

: Also known as the “Player’s Choice” Award. This award is given to the moderator of a game. It is given in recognition of the overall excellence of a game. The Game of the Year award is a "catch all" award for the best overall game throughout the entire year, considering all aspects of the game from moderator quality, to the excellent design and composition of the game, to the performance and cohesion of the playerlist. A Game of the Year is meant to be the game that we can all point to later and say "This game was the best game the site could offer that year in terms of Design, Playerlist, and moderating capability." This is a PUBLIC VOTE. [/color]

The

2018 Scummies thread

is located here.
You may nominate a player or moderator for an award using this form.