Newbie 1864: Seals (Game Over)

[Mathdino]

@Math - review of my play? It really is my first game

Well, you voted on a 50/50 and won. There weren't really any glaring flaws in your reads/analyses.

I think overall you played a very "first game" type of game. Your primary issue was lack of presence and engagement with the thread, which guessing (correct me if I'm wrong) is mostly just lack of confidence. While you brought up a lot of good (and townish) points, you still seemed reluctant to take definite stances. Now that's not a scumtell (don't let anyone tell you it is), but it does hurt town's ability to make things happen and move the game forward.

There's a nice goldilocks zone between "so confident/arrogant you make an ass out of yourself" and "so unsure of yourself that you practically paralyse your slot". People often find that after a few games

[Mathdino]

I suspect Manatee siteflaked soooo I'll not be commenting there unless he shows up.

Some theory stuff btw:

- the Jailkeeper was the correct kill, not the Tracker. Why?
1. If the tracker gets a guilty, you basically trade one scum for the tracker. But if the jailkeeper gets a guilty by roleblocking the kill, that means both the jailkeeper and the tracker can hardclear people now that there's one scum left. It was more important not getting blocked than worrying about getting caught making those kills.
2. The JK was conftown, while the tracker was not and was in theory mislynchable if town wanted to be dumb about it.

- Kinda wish things had gone differently so we could've talked more seriously about nightkill analysis or votecount analysis . I pointed out some stuff in the scum PT suggesting that singer was actually obvtown the whole time by VCA. Pretty much everyone was willing to vote her at some point, and newbscum almost never busses their IC buddy, especially on D1.

- While it turned out badly here, don't be afraid to push people out of fear that they could be PRs. Scum is almost always preparing an emergency PR claim anyway, and while a lot of the behaviours are similar, I think it's the PR's job to do what it takes to stay alive and never be put in the position of having to claim in the first place.
Unfortunately, sometimes that survivalism is exactly what you get run up for! Whoops.

can't really think of much else

[MarioManiac4]

Votecount 4.3

Mathdino (2)- ceejayvinoya, Elvi
ceejayvinoya (1)- Mathdino
Not Voting (0)
With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2018-05-22 10:28:07).

[MarioManiac4]

Mathdino,

Mafia Goon,

was lynched on Day 4!

[MarioManiac4]

ceejayvinoya,

Vanilla Townie,

survives and wins!

Elvi,

Vanilla Townie,

survives and wins!

Congratulations to the

Town,

who have won the game!

[MarioManiac4]

Dead PT
Mafia PT

[the worst]

CONGRATULATIONS TOWN!! And well played scumteam!
That was a tricky LyLo. Well done Ceejay and Elvi for solving it.



(also nice modding, mysterious stranger )

[MarioManiac4]

I think everyone in this game played well! stan1ey and Mathdino did a very good job looking town earlier on, and I think if singer hadn't been the Tracker stanley would have lived longer than he did- I was impressed with his play.
ManateeDude's selfhammer was somewhat questionable but he did a great job being an active scumhunter.
Ranagrande's claim was also something I'd advise against doing in the future; it didn't really help town and I think it's better to clarify these things before taking drastic action when you think a post may be implying something- but again, he was an active and analytical player, and I think he'd do well on the site.
Garuga, too, was active and engaged, not to mention fairly obvious town. Some advice I'd give to him would be to avoid being too confident in a scumread and tunneling on them- you may have been confident in Quick being scum d2, but that's no reason to lynch outside the 1v1 in {singer, stanley} and considering the circumstances I think stanley was the obvious lynch there.
I don't think ceejay is really a newbie anymore, but his play was good too- again, he was active and engaged, and he made the correct choice in voting Mathdino very early in the Lylo.
Elvi didn't post as often as some other players, but when she did there was content there. She made the right call in LyLo too where other players may not have.

[Ranmaru]

Congrats town!

[MarioManiac4]

(also nice modding, mysterious stranger )

thanks tw

[ceejayvinoya]

Thanks for modding maam

btw very sorry for that hammer Quick. lols.

[Garuga]

Good game everyone. The scum PT was great reading material.

[Mathdino]

This is painful. Ceejay can't afford to just let Math wall all over him and Math won't let up because he needs to confuse Elvi enough to make the wrong decision.

He's also blatantly going against what he said about " not listening to anything in lylo"

Tried not to, but shit happens, haha. A lot of LyLos expect content out of me instead of just sitting around.

I clearly won the debate in LyLo, but winning arguments says nothing about your alignment. A lot of my play was geared toward newbies reading me based on charisma, activity, effort, and winning arguments.

And most townies fell for that, but Elvi did not

[stan1ey]

GG that was fun guys, wp to elvi and cj

[Mathdino]

The JK and tracker targeting the entire scumteam was a damn death sentence.

Not to discount the victory but this particular iteration of the setup was very townsided. Tracker is more powerful in micros than usual and jailkeeper is super powerful in general. Mafia Role Cop in a micro doesn't do much when massclaim usually happens on D2 anyway. C'est la vie.

[singersigner]

I mean, you pushed the idea of a claim D1, not me. Lol.

I have thoughts but won't get to a computer for them for another few hours.

@Math...how much of our 1v1 was scum motivated and how much of it was just personality? That'll affect what more I say on the matter, lol.

[Mathdino]

I mean I honestly have no idea. Playing scum is putting a mask on. I'd love to claim "I played exactly how I would have had I been town" but that's obviously not true. I didn't jump on you because you were the IC, I did it because I saw an opportunity and thought you'd be the easiest mislynch.

Incidentally, on a theory level, I scumhunted leaving out the general philosophy that

scum rarely lie

. So I wouldn't have pushed the "singer is lying about so-and-so" angle in the first place. But it helped, and I felt I won the debate when you got more tied up defending yourself than scumhunting. That was a symptom of unconscious PR play (I just got run up D1 as an activated innocent child in another game doing similar shit). So I guess I might've harped on you for that as town?

I think I did feel like a lot of your early reads when you were under fire were personally based, that is, preemptively scumreading people who discredited or scumread you, and being fine with the players who didn't. That's of course not even a scumtell, and I also wouldn't have pushed you as scum for that, but I probably would've pointed it out or gotten frustrated. Another PR tell actually.

[singersigner]

Everything you said about PR tells made me think you were scum, tbh. You came across as convinced I was scum while saying PRs also drop these tells. I took it as a combination of discrediting me and trying to subtly get a lynch on a PR and not waste s NK on me. If you had backed off at any point I would've considered you town but your blatant ignorance of the possibility I could be a PR sent my scumdar flying, lol.

That and the whole trying to incriminate me for the mod business. Felt that was in pretty poor play...

[Fumuki]

I clearly won the debate in LyLo, but winning arguments says nothing about your alignment. A lot of my play was geared toward newbies reading me based on charisma, activity, effort, and winning arguments.

I skimmed some pages of the game but I feel that this is definitely a fact. Ceejay played well but in LyLo Math really "walled" Ceejay all over and it was sounding pretty convincing in Math favor at face value. Elvis did the right thing by taking his time to look at the bigger picture.

Aside from that it was a good game, and a special congratulations to town for the victory.

[the worst]

Fumuki + duckling = ultimate surprise lurker squad!!

I was really impressed by all 3 players in LyLo. At the start it could have gone either way but CJV got so towny suddenly and Elvi totally did the right thing by voting for the read she really truly felt was right.

[Mathdino]

Everything you said about PR tells made me think you were scum, tbh. You came across as convinced I was scum while saying PRs also drop these tells. I took it as a combination of discrediting me and trying to subtly get a lynch on a PR and not waste s NK on me. If you had backed off at any point I would've considered you town but your blatant ignorance of the possibility I could be a PR sent my scumdar flying, lol.

That and the whole trying to incriminate me for the mod business. Felt that was in pretty poor play...

- I don't PR hunt as town -- I just happened to also fail to effectively PR hunt during the day as scum here. I've gotten a lot of PRs pissed off at me in a similar way for not figuring out they're a PR. My take is that PRs should be actively working to make sure they're NOT clearly PRs.
Had I known you were a PR from early on, that actually would've made me back off. As town, I might've felt you were scum setting up a fakeclaim. But as scum, I don't see it as helpful to get in 1v1s with people who have a claim up their sleeve. That entire exchange would never have happened and I'd have just killed you at night.

So in this instance, I think your impression of what I'd do as town/scum is actually completely inverted

- Meh. Had to find reasons to mislynch someone, and Westward wasn't an attractive option D1. Saw an opportunity, got creative. I don't think I broke any rules or got personal doing so.

[Mathdino]

Incidentally, part of why I backed off Westward was because I thought SHE was a PR and thought I could nightkill her. Figured at first that there was no way you were playing the way you were, as an investigative.

Still think it's anti-town to PR hunt or to softclaim/breadcrumb badly.

[Mathdino]

Oh, yeah, and with the listmod stuff, outside of actually trying to mislynch you, I thought that whole tunnel and 1v1 would eventually "conf" me as town in the sense that "Math clearly believed singer was actually lying about listmod stuff". Was one of the chips I tried to use in LyLo. I thought that had I been a town player in the game watching myself I'd be like "No way Math makes up this angle as scum", so like I said, I wanted to do something creative

Ultimately I didn't sell it hard enough to convince those who remained. I also could've set up some crazy interaction between me/stanley but I more wanted him to be set up to win endgame, not me.

[ManateeDude]

I pinned scum D1 lel

[the worst]

ur da man(atee).