Blitz 16: Blitz Greatest Idea Mafia(GAME OVER)

[Ranger]

So I'm coming here to do two things.
First off, claim my modifier; I received miller, so I will investigate as guilty to cops.

Second off, to make a request:

I want everyone to list the cards they got on the first draw, along with what their decision from those cards was.

I will read the thread when I get home from work. (On lunch break right now.)

[Ranger]

Reading:
{Smithereens, Wednesday}
{Frozen Angel, Flubbernugget}
{davesaz}
{BlackStar, lane0168}
{RadiantCowbells}
{Persivul, Starbuck}
{Almost50}

And yours were...

Didn't have the time to look during my lunch break. But I was looking not for the cards themselves, because frankly I don't get card interaction dynamics, but rather, which combinations you got. Mine were Town Two-shot Coroner, Town Watcher (what I picked), Town One-shot Kingmaker, Mafia One-shot Kingmaker, and Mafia two-shot Coroner.

Was extremely disappointed that got discarded, and incredibly miffed most of the stronger roles I could pick on the reshuffle were scum. (As a result, to be town, I got stuck with something weak.)

What do you expect to see from reveal of the 1st set of cards?

If people tell what they selected at the very least (but preferably every combo they could get), then assuming everyone's telling the truth, we'll know why the setup could not be generated. If someone lies, then we'll know that there's a liar and that will be useful information to have.

[Ranger]

...Somehow, Jackal has a

nasty

habit of escaping my readslist.
Place him below BlackStar and lane, but above RadiantCowbells.

[Ranger]

why?

Smithereens popped out immediately and said some extremely town things.
Wednesday's discard looks good for Wednesday, but that's not the real reason Wednesday's there; Wednesday stole my shtick and produced some content that was incredibly town in mindset.

Also, I'm looking at things right now claim-wise, and I've got this:
Ranger--Town Watcher
Frozen Angel--Town Rolecop
Smithereens--Town Cop

RadiantCowbells--Survivor Doctor
Persivul--Survivor Captain
davesaz--Mafia Commuter
Almost50--Werewolf Jailkeeper
Jackal711--Mafia Rolecop

BlackStar--Chose Clairvoyant; no second pick.
(So, town?)
lane0168--Chose jailkeeper; no second pick.
(So, town?)

Wednesday--??
Flubbernugget--??
Starbuck--??

I still want answers from everyone here.

[Ranger]

Also,
VOTE: Almost50.

[Ranger]

Smithereens immediately posted strongly town things.
Starbuck immediately tripped my radar as being suspicious. It felt like what a scum her would have been like in Mafiaception had she been there from the beginning. Furthermore, there's her discard: Hider is an incredibly strong town role, but an incredibly dangerous, borderline-worthless scum role, especially in a setup like this where there can be multiple kills flying around per night and redirections are possible and there can be up to five players hiding behind that would get a scum hider killed.

[Ranger]

To put things in perspective:

1. Frozen Angel - Survivor
3. Smithereens - Werewolf Roleblocker
4. Wednesday_ - Mafia Jailkeeper
8. Ranger - Werewolf
10. lane0168 - Cult Leader

These are all pro-town discards. Frozen Angel and lane less so than the others, since it's discarding third party rather than scum, but still show they are not as interested in playing that type of role.

5. Starbuck - Hider
6. Radiant Cowbells - Bodyguard
11. BlackStar - Cop

These are examples of pro-scum discards: Bodyguard is a useless scum role, but a great town role. Hider is a very powerful town role, but a useless scum role.

I don't really need to talk about Cop, however, I buy BlackStar's posting, that it was essentially accidental and not intended.

The other discards are fairly null, as there are reasons not to want them as either town OR scum.

[Ranger]

Also, I think I want to update my list.
{Smithereens, Wednesday, Frozen Angel}
{Flubbernugget, davesaz}
{BlackStar, lane0168}
{Jackal711}
{RadiantCowbells}
{Persivul, Starbuck}
{Almost50}

I'm almost willing to move BlackStar and lane up a tier, but I need a little more from them to be sure.

[Ranger]

I'd be interested to hear what you saw from Smithereens and Starbuck.

Speaking of things that are interesting...
Why those two specifically?

You don't hold interest in Almost50, Persivul, and RadiantCowbells reads? Is that because you understand their placing?

'Cause if so...would totally love support on the Almost50 wagon.

[Ranger]

Why are you compiling a list of roles that you think everyone has ranger..?

I'm not? I'm compiling a list off of the first round draws, as well as listing things off of the discard.

Almost50's 185 is confirming my suspicion about Starbuck.
189 also supports RadiantCowbells being scum, too.

Persivul may be town for 195. At the very least, he's not the same faction as Almost50.

[Ranger]

I think Wednesday is scum. On page 3 they had a read list and said Ranger was "confirmed town" even though he had only made one post at that point. Right after that Persivul asked Wed the same stuff that the rest of us answered and Wednesday immediately voted for him without answering.

VOTE: wednesday

I literally do the exact same thing every game.

Wednesday isn't scum, and even if they were, it certainly wouldn't be for that.

[Ranger]

Still begs the question, they're both on top of each other's lists.

We're masons, duh.

[Ranger]

Masons aren't in the setup.

...So?

Doesn't stop me from saying that anyway. :P

And yeah, if it's a slip it's a classic.

Or, you know.

I was stating a half-joke.
Because you know.
I'm townreading Wednesday above all others.
Wednesday is townreading me above all others.
Davesaz noted the connection.
And masons are a role that do that.

The only time I wouldn't say that is in a setup I knew masons actually existed. (Because the average mason intelligence is firmly in idiot zone and they would take my post seriously and counter-claim the obvious joke.)

[Ranger]

VOTE: Ranger

Interesting.

This is scum opportunism at its finest, btw.

If both of you were joking, it was a stupid joke. We have to lynch one of you to find out. Since Ranger also claimed Miller, she's the best choice. If she flips green, you get read on your own merits going forward.

Or, you know, we could skip the part where we lynch town, then go, "oh, guess that means the other's scum, let's lynch them" and lynch a

second

town, too.

Which is totally what will happen the moment you lynch me, since I'm the main defender of Wednesday.

And instead. Lynch Almost50, where we actually had

momentum

building, before you decided to go all stupid on us and take a

very obvious joke

at face value.

Seriously, do you think I would claim mason, under no pressure, with it being a serious claim, on D1? Who DOES that? It was a joke. The "duh" at the end should have said as much.

If someone refers to me as their mason partner and I'm not, I don't care if I think it was intended as a joke - I wouldn't go along with it.

You can be forgiven because you weren't in Blitz 2.

The

only

acceptable action when someone claims they're your mason buddy and you aren't is to accept it. Town, scum, doesn't matter. Joke, gambit, it doesn't matter.

How do you know that, since you're not masons?

Oh, I don't know, maybe Wednesday actually

read my posts

and didn't assign some superficial arbitrary scum definition off of a "slip" that was not serious? Maybe Wednesday took a look at what I was trying to do with the requests and realized that I was looking to hone in on mafia? Maybe Wednesday took a look at my scumreads and realized that I not only had good scumreads but good reasons to back them up?

[Ranger]

Also consider that Ranger is one of the most serious players on here.

Since

when

?

I'm

notorious

for fluffing around back on my home site. Have to do SOMETHING when I'm not analyzing, after all.

And yeah I forgot about the miller claim.

...Which should have made it even more obvious that, yes, it was joke.

But if it was a joke, it STILL leaves unexplained the immediate strong townreads on each other.

Sure it does! It leaves unexplained the immediate townread entirely. Nope, not like I explained it or anything.

...Wait. (Also, 172. You know that I cannot be a Werewolf, and you know that Wednesday cannot be a Mafia Jailkeeper, and we're both unlikely to have drawn a second werewolf/mafia card.)

[Ranger]

Didn't you join a lawless game in blitz?

Yes, because I've made it a personal goal to be in every Blitz game. I've been incredibly frustrated I've missed as many as I had. I also knew what I was getting into, a game with no town, thus, I knew that no matter what I could not be town.

But as my discard shows...I'm not a Werewolf, so I clearly hold at least SOME reason not to be that type of role.

Weak powers for the sake of being town don't seem like a choice up your alley

On the contrary, I am a frequent early nightkill as town.

A strong power would be better, yes, but if the price is being scum that's not a price worth paying.

How will that factor into your discard scumhunting?

It's actually given me a lot already.

[Ranger]

Ranger never stated why is he scumreading baka.

Literally every post by Almost50 is claiming scum.

Imo scum are generally greedy capitalistic pigs who jump like jews at the sign of profit. The 'slip' was clearly a situation that could be capitalised on, ergo the push.

Exactly.

I feel Frozen Angel is sincere in her push. Misguided, but sincere. Lane is not as strongly so as Frozen Angel, but it does look like he is not being opportunistic.

In contrast, the most opportunistic vote on the wagon was RadiantCowbells.
Persivul started the wagon and is a strong pusher of it, but unlike Frozen Angel, he does not give off sincerity vibes. However, in his favor, he does not give off the same opportunism vibes that RadiantCowbells did.
Jackal takes a hit reads-wise because of his excuse, since this is

very

much like my town game and he should recognize it. Last game I tried to break the game with the massclaim idea. This game, I've managed to almost do the same. The only difference is, that game I had trouble getting reads; this game I did not.

Why?

Because Wednesday is my mason partner, duh.

:P

[Ranger]

miller was or wasn't your modifier ?

It is. But why would I claim mason-miller?
Let's assume I was seriously claiming. Claiming mason would confirm me if that role were possible. Why claim the miller modifier, then? It's redundant. I could just say I was a mason and be done with it. This applies regardless of truth or deceit behind the mason claim. If I were seriously claiming mason, I would not need to claim miller: no cop would investigate me. Town, scum, doesn't matter. Cop would see it as a wasted night action. Or, if they received a scum result, would think something was up--doubt their sanity, think of redirections, similar things like that. They would not assume I was a miller-mason, they would not assume I was a miller fakeclaiming mason, they would not assume I was scum fakeclaiming mason.

So again: why claim miller when planning to claim mason seriously?
It makes no logical sense, because it's not what would happen.

Now think what happens after having claimed the miller modifier. Then when people read the mason claim, they're going to remember I claimed miller earlier. Claiming miller was obviously serious. Suddenly, I claim mason, openly, when masons

are a role you should keep secret

(see also: Mafiaception where the masons never even had to claim!), and the first thought in any RATIONAL mind should be, "mason joke. Okay. Move on. Ask for real reasoning."

why should I town read wednesday?

Wednesday, immediately out of the gate, produced strong reads in 67. It takes a lister to know a lister. I do listing. I know how it works and when it's town and when it's not. Wednesday's listing was immediately obvious to me: townreading me for all the effort I put into one post, townreading Smithereens's entrance which I did too, lots of reads I understood...in fact, every read there that was an actual read, I agreed with: Persivul trying to blend in was something I noticed and thought him scum for, with all the townreads Wednesday listed being townreads of my own, too.

[Ranger]

{Smithereens, Wednesday, Frozen Angel}
{Flubbernugget, davesaz}
{BlackStar, lane0168}
{Jackal711}
{Persivul, Starbuck, RadiantCowbells}
{Almost50}

Up-to-date list; RC moved down a tier.

[Ranger]

I disagree. If one of you flips green, then as I said,

the other will be read on their own merits

. Why would we lynch Wednesday right after his main defender flipped green? That makes no sense.

The bolded is why Wednesday would be lynched. Because you wouldn't take into account that,

maybe

, I knew what I was doing and so did Wednesday and we were both town who just so HAPPENED to get an instant townread on each other because, sometimes, players just click.

"Duh" isn't very obviously a joke. "Just kidding" is very obviously a joke.

Duh is in my vernacular. I'd tell you to site search it, but apparently three-letter words are too short to find. It doesn't happen every game. But it happens. I say "duh". It is always 100% of the time something not used formally, because, and I quote google,

exclamation informal
used to comment on an action perceived as foolish or stupid, or a statement perceived as obvious.

"Just kidding" is not in my vernacular.
I could have said "clearly". I could have said "obviously". Both would have conveyed the same tone: one definitely not meant to be taken seriously.

1. Why?

2. Why particularly if it was a joke?

Because it is a matter of trust. If they trust you to the point where they will call you their mason partner,

even as a joke

, that means they are townreading you. You do not out the joke. You do not out the potential-gambit. In either case, you play along, to see what reactions it garners.

Now you're answering for him.

Am I now?

85 (and followthrough, 105), 256, 259, and 347 all lay the groundwork out for the obvious.

There's probably more, too; these are just the strongest.

[Ranger]

By referring to your home site I take it you're admitting that you don't joke around here?

That is a misrep and you know it.

I'm NOTORIOUS on my home site for doing it.

That doesn't mean I don't do it here, it just means I'm not notorious for it here, because simply put I'm not well-known enough to have any sort of notoriety.

You put very little into the one post

If you're town and seriously think that one post was little effort you can burn in hell.

The only way that post could have had more effort is if I had

sacrificed my job

to get details: my picks, along with reading the thread.

Which I then immediately did once I came back.

Wednesday said the read was based on the miller claim, not on the effort you put into the post.

Alright.
This one you can call me putting words into Wednesday's mouth a bit.
But have you considered that, perhaps, the reason for the townread behind the miller claim was the WAY in which I claimed miller?

Compare Wednesday's read on you to Wednesday's read on me.
We both claimed a miller-type role.
The difference is, I did so immediately, whereas you tried to hide yours.

[Ranger]

I tried to hide mine?!

Take a break, honey.

I mean it.
Take a break.
Breathe.

Come back when you can read who I'm talking to.

Persivul claimed he had a modifier not in his first post (8), but his second: 12.
He then did not claim what the modifier was until his next post, 27, after pressure.

In contrast, I claimed mine in my first post, 56.

[Ranger]

UNVOTE: Almost50
VOTE: Starbuck.
Vote may change (RadiantCowbells or Persivul in particular), but I'm thinking I was wrong on Almost50, and that Almost50 is town now.
Not absolutely sure, but enough where I'm not comfortable voting there anymore.

[Ranger]

How you know Ranger is town?

I'm almost positive Wednesday has played with me before, and may even be someone who I've gotten very close to in my time playing here on mafiascum.net. I could be wrong about the closeness part, but there's no way this is Wednesday's first game with me. This should be fairly obvious. I could state ideas, but I hold no interest in revealing an alt's main. Instead, I'd judge off of the content Wednesday has given, from which town is the only conclusion to be made.

I would like to hear it

I don't have all the information yet, and if I reveal, then all hope of getting that extra information is lost. In particular, Starbuck, though I'd also prefer Wednesday do so as well as you. You said you got two scum cards, but what was your actual one? (Technically, Wednesday hasn't said either, but it doesn't matter. I need one or two more, but I don't need all 13.)

If Wednesday really is town there's no way in FUCK anyone would trust their reads

No way

Exactly my point!
Which is why lynching Wednesday (or me) would be bad, because the townread on the other would be discarded.

[Ranger]

There is absolutely no town motivation to choose being lynched over claiming.

There is also no scum motivation to choose being lynched over making a fakeclaim that could potentially save you.

Choosing not to claim is motivated by spite, not alignment.
Spite, however, can be alignment-indicative, in this case, further proof Wednesday is town.

[Ranger]

I'll switch to Persivul if necessary to get a non-Wednesday, non-Ranger lynch, but I think I prefer Starbuck above all others.

[Ranger]

I would need a damn good reason an unvote one one of you two isn't a scum claim

Well in that case...

VOTE: Ranger

Interesting.

I get scumvibes from Persivul.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Persivul

VOTE: Lane

This is so scum.

[Ranger]

hrowing a vote on the guy with two posts?!?

This attitude kept the Starbuck slot alive during Mafiaception for

days

.

Ignoring the content

within

said two posts being incredibly scummy, and that having so few posts in the blitz game is itself incredibly suspicious.

[Ranger]

VOTE: Jackal711

That was scummy as hell.

Agreed. I think I was wrong on you being scum.

This is looking an awful lot like deja vu on Jackal.

[Ranger]

{Smithereens, Wednesday, Frozen Angel}
{Flubbernugget, davesaz}
{BlackStar, lane0168, Almost50, RadiantCowbells}
{Persivul, Starbuck, Jackal711}

[Ranger]

(For the record, that's Jackal moving down, and Almost50/RadiantCowbells moving up, not Blackstar/lane moving down. In this case, that list goes no-doubt-town, mostly-town, kind-of town, strongly-scum.)

[Ranger]

Townier to scummier:
{Lane, Flubber}
{Smithers}
{Frozen, Ranger, Jackal, Starbuck}
{davesaz, Blackstar}
{Radiant, Wednesday, Almost50}

I am almost 100% positive that Persivul is scum with Jackal and Starbuck from this post. He's hiding them in the nulls, while attacking every player who is popular: note that at the time of 217, there was interest on both RadiantCowbells and Wednesday, and Persivul's Almost50 vote in 195 made Almost50 the lead wagon. Also note this detail:

Jackal711[2] - Radiant Cowbells, Wednesday_

I find this no coincidence.

[Ranger]

While Jackal is probably the least-likely of the trio to flip scum, sure.
VOTE: Jackal711.
He's still likely scum anyway. I'll wagon whichever of the three has the most votes, and right now that looks like it's Jackal.

[Ranger]

I want this:
VOTE: Jackal711.

[Ranger]

Yeah this whole "wagon jackel" thing totally isn't going to be used as a red herring

Nope not at all

Couldn't be so

Eat your words Flubber. Wednesday, just as I said, was town.
Starbuck, just as I said, was scum.

Jackal is scum.
Persivul is scum.
They are both still scum.

Jackal is not a wagon on a lurker.
Starbuck was not a wagon on a lurker.
They were wagons on scum.

And it was people like YOU that kept it from happening.

So shut up and sheep me this time.

[Ranger]

You expect truth from this?

This, btw, was the reason why I asked people what they drew last time.

Because, critically, I wanted to know what alignment they were predisposed to choosing.

The answer I got was: davesaz wanted to be the strongest, so nothing from him; Persivul wanted a challenge, so anti-town; Frozen Angel and Smithereens wanted town, thus, town; Blackstar and lane chose town, so, town; scum in {Persivul, RadiantCowbells, Almost50, Jackal711, unclaimed slots like Starbuck}. Yours in them.

[Ranger]

I think that's because Jackal is basically a policy lynch, so his flip won't really say anything.

This is also why Persivul is scum with Jackal.

I made it

VERY CLEAR

that Jackal was not being lynched for lurking.
Jackal was being lynched for acting like scum.
That statement still stands.

This is the same Jackal as Murder on Madness Mountain.
Persivul is acting towards Jackal similarly to how Rob treated Jackal.

They are scum together.

[Ranger]

So Ranger, the other day it seemed like you and Wednesday had each other's backs. Would you care to explain the reason behind that?

Survivor is a role with no allies. It's not a scum role. Wednesday, as shown by the clear "screw you" attitude at the end, was not playing like scum; Wednesday was playing like town.

And a player playing like town...gets townread by me. Basically, what Almost50 said in 799. Wednesday was an ally of the town.

[Ranger]

Not a good start, Smithereens.

[Ranger]

@almost50 I like the connection you made between Persivul, Starbuck and jackal.

The connection ALMOST50 made between Starbuck/Persivul/Jackal?!?

ALMOST50?!?

Rrrr...

[Ranger]

Yeah, but I wanted to specifically ask if being a partner with Starbuck makes sense. Kinda hard to tell with that slot being basically empty...

The problem is that if we wait for the slot to produce notable content, in a Blitz, we will never get what we're waiting for...especially if it's continued minimalist posting.

This is why there shouldn't be a stigma against lynching lurkers. Scummy content is scummy content, regardless of how much or how little content there is.

It applied to Starbuck's slot and it applies to Jackal's slot, too.

[Ranger]

You're assuming you weren't lied to. We have at least one claimed scum yet had to redraw. How do you think that happened?

To the contrary: I know exactly how.

There were five players who claimed they picked town.
There were three players unclaimed: Starbuck, Wendesday, and You.
Unless two of those players claimed they picked town, we would have verification right then and there everyone told the truth, because we needed seven.

This is why I was pushing you yesterday, and also Starbuck, and also to some extent Wednesday, to divulge that info. The results are not definitive because you didn't, Starbuck lurked out until nightkilled, and Wednesday didn't, but I'm still taking the stance: close enough, results confirmed. Nobody saying they picked non-town would have reason to lie (what scum motive is there to lie and say you picked anti-town if you actually picked town?), and nobody who said they picked town seemed to be lying. (Especially the two who said they didn't pick alignment at all.)

VOTE: Persivul.

I like this vote better than the Jackal one. Jackal's probably scum, Persivul's actually my strongest scumread.

[Ranger]

Check Ranger's reads lists. IMO they're awful

Tell that to Starbuck.
You know.
The dead scum I was scumreading.

[Ranger]

How about Wednesday, the dead Survivor you were town reading? Or Lane, the dead obvtown you kept in your null pile?

Yes, Survivor, which has every incentive to side with town, and correctly townreading lane because that was not my null pile; it was a lesser town pile.

[Ranger]

I do think dave and Jackal are probably town now.

Gives:
{Frozen Angel, Smithereens, Jackal711}
{davesaz} (dave's not quite as clear, but is still pretty clear)
{RadiantCowbells}
{Almost50, BlackStar}
{Flubbernugget}
{Persivul}

[Ranger]

What makes it "pretty clear" that Dave is town? I don't see it.

Dave claimed a cop clear on Jackal.
Jackal was someone we were potentially going to mislynch.
As scum, this is not a smart move, to clear a mislynch.

Also, while new info posted after my post, Persivul tracked him, so, yeah, confirmed to have made that action. There's the slight possibility of being scum clearing a town player by truthfully claiming their role, who was hoping to get a scum result, but it's incredibly unlikely.

[Ranger]

Blackstar and Ranger both have Flubber at/near the bottom of their lists. Why? He's actively scumhunting. From my experience he doesn't have a great scum game. I understand that I get scum read all the time, by I see no reason for a flubber scum read.

Many reasons: who he is pushing, his interactions with players such as you, and the multiball status of the game. All these lead me to throw out the idea he's town for scumhunting, because his pushes are...not good.

Plus, POE. I have good reason to believe FA, Jackal, dave, and Smithereens (now Firebringer) are town, and RC looks town too. Almost50 is a townread of mine. Leaving {Persivul, BlackStar, Flubbernugget} as a scum pool...in which, I have a mild townlean on BlackStar.

So put a vote on him...don't cost nothin'.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Blackstar

Persivul is pushing for any player that looks like there's momentum for a mislynch, just saying.

[Ranger]

It would appear I'm the only one unclaimed at this point.

My cards were: Werewolf
Enabler
One-shot Coroner

So, I got four possible combinations: Werewolf Enabler (lolno), Werewolf One-Shot Coroner (lolno), Vanilla Townie (why?), and my actual pick: Town One-shot coroner.
What a coroner does is basically an any-night watch on a player (if said player dies), even an already-dead one. I didn't use my shot N1 because I'm one-shot. (I could watch a player alive, but if they didn't die, what's the point? I don't get a result on a player not dead.) So, my plan has been to target lane.
The claims mean it might be better to target the Starbuck slot (because I see

everyone

who visited them the night they died, not just the killer), but lane is my first choice because lane is probably killed by scum, Starbuck probably killed by town.

The final role card I got was Town Miller One-Shot Coroner.

[Ranger]

CONCLUSION: IF we're both telling the truth then his action precedes mine. Why? I have NO IDEA.

I do: if two actions have equal priority, a common way of resolving them is whichever is submitted chronologically first.

The actions make sense as presented in that scenario.
BlackStar claimed unprompted. He has little reason to lie about his night action.
You claimed your action in response. You have little reason to lie about your night action(s).
All this makes me want to do this, though:
VOTE: Flubbernugget.

There's a chance Persivul could be town from this.

[Ranger]

So I think the plan here should be: lynch Flubbernugget. He's the only one without a night action.
(...Well. Aside from RC.)
I use my coroner shot on lane. I get to see who visited lane. ALTERNATIVELY, we get confirmation of the order we have more or less figured out via me targeting Starbuck's slot and get final word from the mod that, yes, it worked as BlackStar first, Almost50 second, both redirects working. (I like this one less, since it seems like this has been confirmed.)
Jackal rolecops someone to confirm their claim.
Persivul tracks someone to confirm their claim.
davesaz cops someone to confirm their alignment.
Frozen Angel protects someone to hopefully reduce risk of casualties.
BlackStar and Almost50 busdrive.

Tomorrow, we all claim our information. After busdrive results are worked out, we come away with hard information on who's lying and who's telling the truth off of the night's results.

[Ranger]

This doesn't feel like Town!FA reaction right now.

If I'm being 100% honest, I can see FA as a benevolent third party like Survivor, but her reaction does not seem like her as scum either.

Gladiator can choose a target during day, then the lynch can only come from those two targets. It makes no sense for scum to take that role, and if we come to doubt him we can ask him to prove it by using it. That leaves Ranger. We need a wagon. Please join me.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ranger

Blatantly false in every way. Scum have

every

incentive to choose the role, forcing a lynch onto a player of their choosing while proving they hold that role. Furthermore, my role is the only role that is 100% confirmable; if you track me, then you'll see me visiting a player already dead, something ONLY a coroner (as far as I know) is capable of.

[Ranger]

Why would someone with Coroner as a choice pick scum as an alignment?

Precisely. You already know I discarded the Werewolf card I got.

First, we don't know that role claim is true.

But it takes one night.
ONE night. For me to prove it. Since I'm visiting a player already dead, my action cannot be redirected. (At least not by a busdriver. But we haven't had a redirector claim, now, have we?) It could be blocked, but we haven't had a roleblocker claim, nor have we seen evidence of a roleblocker role in play, thus, it is unlikely to exist. Therefore, I can, 100%, get a result tonight. Whether you believe me or not is entirely up to you, of course, but I can GET that result, and only scum have reason to fear that. Because should I live to see tomorrow, I will almost-100% have a clear scum result via targeting Lane.

I -kind of- suspect he posted his SECOND draw cards & pick. Also his voting patterns are strange.

Then he's very possibly a werewolf, as you have observed, but I want one night's worth of night actions to confirm--is that acceptable for you?

[Ranger]

news : I discarded survivor

I did say "like survivor", but you have a point.

Still, I don't see you as being scum, and there

was

a missing kill last night especially if there's more than one werewolf, so your claim of being a doctor is likely true, meaning I want you alive until at least tomorrow.

[Ranger]

My concern is, where will we be if we stall for you for one day, then you lie and we mislynch town, then scum gets a NK.

Then I'm confirmed scum and I'm dealt with swiftly.

Whoever scum are, you're doing a nice job of sowing confusion and avoiding wagons.

I would say this is true, yes.
Still think both you and Jackal can be scum, though I do believe a night will help sort that out.
Honestly, the composition of the Flubbernugget wagon is not very great; Flubber has a significant chance of being a mislynch, but I don't have any better ideas.

[Ranger]

If lane was killed by mafia rather than a vig shot from FB, that will be one of them.

So my result, interestingly enough, was that Firebringer and BlackStar visited lane.

I'm

pretty

sure that makes Blackstar mafia? If it were because of BlackStar's busdrive, the only way that could happen is through Almost50, and that would mean Almost50 would show up. Unless I'm missing anything. Is there any scenario where BlackStar is town? I can't think of any, but I could be missing something.

[Ranger]

A little RC-BS distancing maybe?

If BlackStar is scum (and I think by my result he is?), then it's definitely possible: the mafia would know I got a guilty. They'd therefore know that Blackstar would be going down.

That being said, while possible, a huge potential BlackStar buddy would be you.

What I don't get is why I'm still alive if BlackStar's role is real and he's scum. They'd know I'd find him. They'd know that two busdrivers would cause enough confusion that switching me and someone else could allow for a nightkill on me. This would tell us one of the busdrivers was scum, sure, but it wouldn't tell us

which

of the busdrivers was scum.

[Ranger]

Actually I think it does because that means that Blackstar lied about his bus.

Well, Firebringer's modifier means we don't know if lane was killed by the mafia or killed by Firebringer's vig shot (Firebringer shows up as visiting

all

the dead), but I think this is accurate regardless, that Blackstar as town cannot have visited lane, so regardless of whether BlackStar's lane visit was busdriving or nightkilling, BlackStar would still be scum.

[Ranger]

RC + Ranger: This would be a classic. I need someone to refute this one analytically.

The only way I can be scum if Persivul isn't is if I'm a mafia coroner, as I was confirmed by Persivul to target lane.

So there's your analysis right there.

Same goes for the dave+me one.

BTW, my tracking ability tells me that Ranger targeted lane, not that she visited lane.

Tomato, tomato. What role in THIS SETUP can target a player already dead other than Coroner?

I also believe that the correct move is to lynch BlackStar, who looks in 1652 to have basically given up.

[Ranger]

So, Ranger; Please tell me this: Why can't you be a WW Coroner?

Aside from the fact that I hardcore pushed Starbuck as scum, you mean?

Oh, just the fact that I'm mod-confirmed to have discarded the Werewolf role.

So unless I got TWO Werewolf roles AND a town coroner role (because that's the combination needed for me to be a werewolf coroner: werewolf, werewolf power role that I chose alignment rather than role for, and town coroner), I cannot be a werewolf.

I never visited him so Ranger is just throwing me under the bus.

I'm pretty sure this is a scumslip.
Obviously I'm not scum with BlackStar, but I'm pretty sure BlackStar IS scum for this.

@Everybody: What are the chances you would receive the same role in both draws?

My role the first draw was town watcher. I know coroner is a similar role, but for the time of the first pick, I actually didn't know what coroner did. I just knew that watcher would be stronger, so I picked watcher. What does Kingmaker even do? I didn't even care to find out. Same for 2x coroner. I didn't know what a coroner did until I drew it in the second round.

Not only this, but she states she was extremely disappointed she had to settle for something weak this time around. Do you think Coroner is weak?

Compare: one-shot coroner. Able to see who visited the dead, one time.
Infinite-shot watcher. Able to see who visited a player an infinite number of times.

Yes, 1x coroner is weak in comparison to watcher.

3- She's town --> There's still a chance BS is the lone mafia remaining, OR it's him and dave (in which case we lose).

Or it's BS+Persivul, as they're the two main people pushing me as scum.
That said, dave's fencesitting is a little bit sketchy, yes.

[Ranger]

Since we know that one of Ranger or BlackStar is lying, we lynch Ranger first.

Except the game's almost certainly over with a mafia win if you lynch me first, so yeah.

Interestingly, Ranger isn't even voting Blackstar.

Yes. Because while I'm pretty sure BlackStar is scum, I've been looking at any possible scenario where he is town and what that would mean.

Furthermore, regardless of BlackStar's alignment, ending the day too soon would not be pro-town, as people still have actions to set up.

I don't trust any of you guys right now with how hard you're defending Blackstar when he's done nothing whatsoever to make anyone tihnk that he's town and blatantly fished for a counterwagon to his own.

There's also this. BlackStar has done nothing town the entire game pretty much.

I have, as noted, done several town things. While I could theoretically be a mafia who hard-defended Wednesday and hard-pushed a werewolf, this is not optimal multiball play. It is, however, optimal town play to defend town players and push scum players.

Crowd mentality in favour of Ranger lynch -> I speedlynch you Blackstar.

This too. The crowd mentality has shifted to be on me.

[Ranger]

VOTE: BlackStar.

[Ranger]

Ranger; Persy has been ANALYTICALLY proven town. There is no acceptable scenario in which he could be either mafia or WW.

I reject your analysis and substitute my own: Persivul is playing to his scum meta.

[Ranger]

Still bitter about that lynch, but oh well.

[Ranger]

Would you consider this your standard town game?

Yes. Explicitly so. I was town, no? So of course this was my standard town game. Why would it have been anything else? I tried to break the game multiple times: off of cards, off of picks, off of roles, and I still scumhunted beyond that. That's my town game to the core

I compared it to the last Blitz we were in and you were more confident with your reads and aggressive in that one.

Confidence is situational. I had an incredibly-confident D1. My confidence was lessened by the string of things not quite being what I expected. For instance, I had an incriminating result on BlackStar, but for the life of me, I couldn't figure out WHY he as scum would let me live if he knew it was going to be a 1v1 that by all rights he should have lost.