TM2020 - Large Theme - Gay Mafia IV: TOWN WIN

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viewtopic.php?f=100&t=60967

Found it, GIF.

It was 2015, holy shit

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Yeah, he’s cute newbtown, but more newb on the sitewide than the actual playing of mafia.

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If you’re ever in SF, hit me up. We got some things to do

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im more annoyed with Volpe than scum reading you.

If your playstyle is to bait who wants your teammates out of the game, that’s been obvious, but I didn’t know that was a secret you were pushing.

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By FL, om, and now even MariaR.
Hers was the most surprising because she knows how much of a lazy fuck I am to make a post like that.

This isn't even close to true. The one game I've seen from you (the one I modded) you tryharded in. Sure, I know you're personally lazy but I didn't know how that translates. I think you're just getting annoyed because you're not getting the easy townreads that you expected to get.

I fight with RC, because I don’t let him town coast.

And I kill off NSG when she’s my traitor partner.

Actually, I think most of the time I play with NSG, I end up killing her regardless of my alignment.

Also, Maria, are you Elena?

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You got in a tree house with no entrance but the ladders been broken for days, so we can’t get up there, and we have no clue why you got there, if that makes sense.

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I called you scum earlier, but that past after the Nomnom debacle

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I still think that Nomnom FL vote was ducky vote this game

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It auto corrects to Ducky when I say ducky

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*the worst

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Same.

If I’m tilted, I’ll say I’m tilted, and you’ll actually get shade rather than sass.

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This is exactly the line I expected scum you to take btw.

This kind of post always makes me laugh.
I don't remember my scumgames so you tell me.
When was my last proper scumgame?

Last one I remember was that newbie game I caught you in, and this account was a secret Alt still, and in the dead thread, RadiantCowbells says “FL is my hero.”

I sigged it for a few months.

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I still think that Nomnom FL vote was ducky vote this game

ducky isnt in my team

It was supposed to say theworst

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I don't think you get what I say.
Implications aside, I confirmed my existence in the hood because it had to be confirmed to show that what you just did was something only scum would do.

One question: How do you team members feel about this? Do they SR nomnom too?

They think it’s Nomnom and myself.

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I can handle RC better than I can handle you, I feel.

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RC/FL - town/town games don’t really lose, and those are the games I usually am the one that solves.

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I've faith in the hoods to makes us come to day 2 with a fabulous "DEB has been killed tonight" written in the opening post.

This would be a great service to me.

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I always look good

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I’m trying to take a step back from this game, kind of like a reset, so apologies for my trolly comments. I’m trying to stay at least somewhat present

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I will say, if Dave is scum here, he’s really stepped his game up recently, and should be on the come up for 2020. He already has a scum game under his belt won where he endgamed.

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Speak your truth, Dave, don’t see it as bragging, it’s a part of you. It is you.

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That's something else that only happens to me when I'm town

being lynched day 1

This is a lie. We lynched you when you were a SK day 1

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nom, you're here. In your hood everyone was TRing each other before FL's thing yes?

Who said what now? Was my hood outed?

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To be fair, commuting is a scummy ability, idk why that was pushed like it wasn’t. Especially when you have to negotiate within neighborhoods. I don’t think that’s the best way to look at the neighborhood powers, but yeah.

An Investigative neighborhood is probably the most likely to have scum in them if we’re going on that accord.

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I’m pretty good at smash.

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Yeah, i thought I was still town leader, and y’all just waiting for me to come back and make a decision

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Yeah, i thought I was still town leader, and y’all just waiting for me to come back and make a decision

please come back

Y’all burnt me out. I’m physically here, but I’m definitely mentally not.

I’m pretty good at smash.

Yeah, but pops ofc badatsmash

Top 2 mains, who you play?

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Not Voting (1): Flavor Leaf

When this moves, the discussion shall change again, bet.

“Everyone is getting pretty aggro. It's a game. Chillllll.”

Team Mafia is life.

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I used to play Pichu and Pikachu before he got nerfed, why would they do this to my precious boy

Now I play Pikachu and Joker, with Donkey Kong at the side in case I'm losing and I need to shake the set up or for counterpicking

I used to play Marth, but now I’m a Young Link/Zelda with a little bowser Jr (Iggy)

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I think it's because I'm a bit burned out of this game but I'm oddly feeling like flaming Nomnom until she quits the game but I opted for not doing so in the end

New nomnom sig post game

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I feel like if I put the time in, and went to more tournaments, I’d be damn good at smash, level, if that makes sense.

I’m generally pretty good at fighters, though.

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Now, if we talking World Cup Real Life Mafia tournaments, I’d smash everyone.

I’m so much better at Mafia when people don’t know me.

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Menalque says that FL should be lynched if nom flips scum for the timing of him bringing up smash. He did the exact same thing in pfup to draw focus away from a productive direction into one that was ultimately distracting and +scum EV.

Mena calls it weaponized charm

I’m not the one who brought smash up

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Is that the mmo you play? How is it?

I literally own essentially every Final Fantasy game, and I’ve only ever finished 6 (3?)

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Zesty take: I think Elements is town.

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He’s just being mislynch bait, and I remember getting super off vibes from him when he was third party.

I have a little more, but I’d rather not say right now, if that makes sense.

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why does him being mislynch bait necessarily mean he's town?

To get mislynched, you need to be a mislynch.

Saying it right now, he’s a neighbor of mine, if that wasn’t obvious. When he was SK, I was one of the biggest pushers of him. I’m like completely null if not net positive with him, which I don’t feel is scum him.

Also, he looks like he was going to end up being the day’s lynch, which also never feels like this game ends with a scum lynch here. Scum aren’t going to lose a partner like that, and nobody’s really gaining anything from bussing him either.

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He also thought we were all masons in the neighborhood at first, and straight up asked about any abilities, which is just really bold from scum if so. Like sure, he could be just going blunt, but it felt genuine to me.

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Actually, i just checked again, his first post was him asking which one of us is evil, then he went to comment on the mason thing. Still

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Real early on i made a comment about almost immediately town reading him in the neighborhood, then backtracked because i felt pocketed early.

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Actually, i just checked again, his first post was him asking which one of us is evil, then he went to comment on the mason thing. Still

was he trying to do a mason gambit

No, he just asked a question about our stuff.

Meh, he brought up there being a possibly being potential roleblock neighborhood, so i could see that being tmi fake setup spec.

Idk. I’m looking back on it and when I’m saying this stuff out here, it’s seeming scummier, but i just feel he’s like the designated mislynch for the day.

Which does make me a little more suspicious of my other neighbor, but i generally have been vibing with them too. I’m not going to out them right now.

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Full disclosure, we have an ability that comes into play when there’s only one of us left alive, which is a reason I’m becoming hesitant, especially because I was getting pushed earlier too.

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has he said anything else in your neighborhood?

We have like 3 pages, he didn’t say anything I believe in the 2nd page, but more recently, he brought up thinking we’re all town, which I somewhat want to agree with right now, but I’m worried because him and I were getting pushed.

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where do you think scum are at right now FL

I'm not specifically looking for names, just rough approximations of what they're doing or etc.

Idk which of em, but that commuter hood has a scum in them.

There’s probably a lurker scum.

Then there’s probably a scum getting town read.

I expect one scum to have been pro Volpe and one scum to have been pro flavor regardless of Volpe’s alignment.

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my scumread of him isn't strong

it's more hard to justify going for any other scumreads since I'm townreading the majority of the game

I think scum is 100% in people’s town reads right now.

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Volxen or Vex Vience probably have scum within them.

I have nothing to back this up, it’s just a blank statement that my guts telling me.

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Deb’s also not doing anything, and he has an always vote Flavor gimmick, even when we play in face 2 face, so he votes me regardless of his alignment.

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are scum necessarily proactive though?

I'm pretty certain that Volpe is town, just kinda hitting the overly paranoid town that tends to drown out the game
nomnomnom is pretty firmly in her townrange I think

there's not a crazy amount of people that are being very proactive about the game otherwise unless you're partially referring to people that are more midrange

Apparently, Volpe is good scum, I’ve never seen it, though. I can fake paranoia better than I can show real paranoia. I didn’t like the early parts of Flavor vs Volpe and there’s a part of me that thinks his death tunnel was completely fake, but I’ve backed off from that because most people seem to think he’s town, so I’m just kinda slightly lean towning volpe from it for now.

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oh farkran

I guess it's possible he's scum if I'm just hitting my "can't read logic" stride, but I don't think I'm willing to humor that until I have a reason to

chenn maybe?

Yeah, I could see either of them as scum in the long run. I don’t have any lock town reads as of right now, but i have a bunch of lean towns, and a lack of major scum reads.

Fakran was the first player this game that felt off for me, like I said, scum Brian skies like, Chennisden was the 2nd, which lead to my Volpe push.

Chennisden also was really weird in the early Volpe vs FL, but I think Chenn is just a weird dude.

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elements and EP are weak scumreads

Interesting.

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That’s my neighborhood.

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I think it was. You’re main scum reads are my neighbors, who I think are townie, but I’m easily pocketed if done correctly.

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Why do you town read A50?

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GIF’s never getting night killed, Ank.

He controls a commuter neighborhood with RC/NSG clout.

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Why do you town read A50?

I'm not as confident I can read him as before, but I don't think I'm entirely wrong that he can be read based on a combination of what he talks about and how he talks about it

and I'm seeing generally good takes with the impression that he believes what he's saying

that's good enough for me on D1

I have 100% read accuracy on reading scum A50, through multiple games. Usually it slaps me in the face.

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So scumA50 would be completely weary of me. I caught him and Garmr once day 4 when they were both deep wolves, and i came out of nowhere after not playing essentially the entire game.

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I feel like GIF’s scaring us into town reading him, if that makes sense.

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No worries. I should sleep

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What scum motivation could there be there...? I outed my good which puts suspect on me.

There was clear reasoning as to why I outed the hood. If you straight up read that interaction between Ankamius, it makes sense. I was trying to defend slots that I couldn’t reason without bringing up my thoughts on them as a hood

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Also, I actively said I was going to tune out from this game for a while, so people pushing that I wasn’t doing anything and talking about smash is trash.

I literally was only mentally out of this for like a day, and I came back in late last night.

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What’s your point

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Ok I don't have much time atm but basically our group as a collective thinks that volpe is town and lynching our townread is very bad idea.

@GIF - Jingle wants to know what exactly prompted this, specifically from NSG and Bitmap.

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i've been fighting with FL too

Where was I for this, I don’t remember ever fighting with you. All I said to you early game was your posting style reminds me of Scum Brian Skies, which is still ringing true, but you’re a bit more of a presence.

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Also, Jingle says there’s probably scum in the commute hood; we shouldn’t lynch in the commute hood.

He also said that Commute hood should holster to increase the chance they can get conf town’d, then you can perma commute that slot.

I’m just passing along what was said to me.

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That’s on a mech level, and he thinks GIF outing the neighborhood (which I’m actually not sure if he did or not, I thought it was nom?) is cray town.

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GIF, A50, maybe DEB.

These aren’t strong, and my teammate, at least Jingle, doesn’t agree with that GIF read.

I don’t have a lot of scum reads that I’m confident in right now, which is why I’m not voting.

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I’ve never talked about the A50 one, but if you look at anytime I brought him up, you can tell I was feeling it. It’s not strong, but like I said before, I’m really good at reading him. If he’s scum, I feel I’ll be sure of it pretty soon.

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A50’s good stuff faking associations unless it’s with me. When we’re scum together, we apparently win our games, but we both die.

When we were masons together, we died real fast.

So I don’t really have much, he could have been doing that at his lurker scum buddy.

DEB’s not going to do much except say “#flavorisalwaysscum” which I think could be relatively scum indicative here. Town him meme’s more. Don’t expect him to do actual analysis, though. He’s able to be present and piggyback off of people, but yeah.

For instance, when he was scum in The Boondom Menace, he forced every player in the game to rank the order of which Star Wars movies they preferred.

So...not gonna get much either way.

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As scum I would attempt to warp the gamestate btw

My approach to scum is basically I warp the lens of how the game is viewed as a whole rather than the results of individuals

Yeah, you’re Mini Boon.

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Boonisden
Chenniskiies

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It’s an Old School vs New School mentality. Gamma’s ‘09 so walls are easier to read. Just the times, and the smart phone boom coming after players started playing Mafia.

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Also I think that style of scumplay is actually kind of disproportionately effective because people just haven't learned how to counter it

People just don’t move past the mechanical way of playing Mafia and don’t see it like a spectrum. :shrug:

The majority of my scum games there is generally zero actual reason for me to ever be Mafia, even when I am, and mechanical by the book players physically can’t understand why I win the games I do.

I feel like I probably have one of the, if not the, highest scum win rate from players who have had more than 7 scum games on site.

Not using mechanical play, and playing socially is a counter, kind of, but then you gotta play the game. I’m all about scum and town alike making the moves.

I have an extremely flashy vanilla scum play, kind of like the BooneyToonz games in general.

I am by the book, 100%. It’s just not the book the so called “elite” players are reading, because I find it completely outdated.

I’m gonna mainstream Mafia, guys. Bet.

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People act like I’m just now picking up scum victories, but I’ve been dominating as scum on this site since 2014.

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I used to get pushed as Village Idiot a lot back then, but then late game came around, and I started to solve games as town.

I was scum once against Nachomamma and Tammy, 2 players that everyone tout as some legends, and they both locktowned me. People hang up in the past rather than focus on the present, and we have some modern day legends on this site right now, and I personally believe that the site has a higher level of play, at least the higher level players, are stronger now than they were 5 years ago.

Don’t get me wrong, I know the ‘09-‘11 era is really strong too, it’s just a different type of playstyle.

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I think this style of scumplay basically leaves people going "Wow, you were scum.... okay no comment" and really just lends to paranoia at the end rather than learning to deal with this style of play

I'd love to see people learn how to play against this kind of scumplayer. Especially since they don't give a shit about their tone and can really easily pick other players' tone apart

Certain players do, and honestly, that’s when I have more fun as scum. I get to actively force myself to become better. I’m always looking to better myself, and the people around me. That’s just my personality in general, though.

My town game took a big hit this year because i rolled scum so many times last year, so people just started BoP’ing me. This is a relatively new thing, though.

I went 2 years without being mislynched. I was mislynched multiple times the past 4-5 months.

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Also, Jingle says there’s probably scum in the commute hood; we shouldn’t lynch in the commute hood.

He also said that Commute hood should holster to increase the chance they can get conf town’d, then you can perma commute that slot.

I’m just passing along what was said to me.

We can only commute people outside the hood, for the record.

This might change some things for me. That’s interesting.

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and I personally believe that the site has a higher level of play, at least the higher level players, are stronger now than they were 5 years ago.

How

I feel like townplay is on the downturn since 2018

Not everywhere.

You, Skitter, and RC have insane town games.

NSG, insane town game.

And I’m just insane.

I think the way players play scum just changed, and the town’s haven’t kept up with the change.

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and I personally believe that the site has a higher level of play, at least the higher level players, are stronger now than they were 5 years ago.

How

I feel like townplay is on the downturn since 2018

It's because we're telling new players that they need to abide by some antiquated stuff like "oh there's this thing called RVS and there's presumably a hard line to when we go out, we can totally catch scum through hyperanalyzing RVS or whatever" instead of trusting gut more

Newbies generally have a pretty decent grasp of how to play Mafia, and their instincts are pretty good. They are just newbies of the site, and maybe forum mafia.

Look at Fakran here, regardless of their alignment, they’re playing well, and they have a different style of play. People don’t try to evolve their town game. They don’t try to analyze, they just try to 1v1 and not reevaluate, or they push the surface level scum bad town play.

Town inherently can’t win a 1v1 against a scum because scum have teammates to back them up and help warp the gamestate to make the townie lose. This is a big reason, I feel that scum should always work together like a team, and that’s the main thing keeping scum players from moving forward. People always try to play the solo game, but I think the better play is to always try and work with players, even if you’re town thinking someone is scum. You can always be wrong, and it doesn’t hurt to talk about possibilities.

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Something_Smart and Jingle have strong town games also.

RCEnigma is a much stronger town player than he is a scum player, and he’s one of the main people I am forced to play around when I’m scum against him. He doesn’t engage in 1v1’s with me, and that’s why it’s so hard.

I can take down anyone in a 1v1 when I’m scum. I just can. You have teammates.

That’s what I think the good stuff to look at as town are. Why is this 1v1 happening?

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Can you chill on how scum win unless it’s useful for this game?

Sorry, don’t mean to be changing up your master plan.

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Like, I’m getting town vibes from both Chennis and Ank because of this conversation. Scum still have to watch what they say when talking in a natural way with people.

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That’s another thing scum do wrong, they let townies fight it out long enough for the townies to realize they’re town. Sure, it can work sometimes in your favor, but I’ve literally town blocked with people I got in big arguments with.

Dave did a scummy pop in there, and like, I would never use that as the MAIN reason to push him as scum, but when you put it next to everything else he’s done, he does in fact look scummy

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You’re my new apprentice, Chennisden. Welcome to the Boon Babes.

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I’m gonna slingshot Ankamius, and once we get more pieces to the puzzle, I’ll do some VCA work.

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Fair, but i didn’t throw that out Willynilly, it’s been over time and since the beginning of the game to get to that point.

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Post of the year nom ^

I’ve never seen Dave get upset. Dave, I do think you’re playing different this game, but like, I’ve seen your scum game and your town game, and it’s different than both, so if anyone uses that as an argument, i don’t agree with that. You’ve made some scummy pop in’s, though

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Post of the year nom ^

I’ve never seen Dave get upset. Dave, I do think you’re playing different this game, but like, I’ve seen your scum game and your town game, and it’s different than both, so if anyone uses that as an argument, i don’t agree with that. You’ve made some scummy pop in’s, though

we found our SK wrap it up boys

If I’m a SK, just kill me when there’s like 2 scum likely left.

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Really, I was trying to make that post because Dave’s post made me laugh so hard, but I was trying not to say it in a mean way, because I didn’t mean it in a bad way at all, if that makes sense.

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Everybody’s part of the conclusion we lynch in the Commuter group, right?

ORDER OF PREFERENCE: Volpe, GIF, Nomnom

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Actually, let’s just have everyone vote for their preference. 1st preference, gets 1 point, 2nd 2, 3rd preference gets 3. Whoever has the least points at the end we lynch.

Commuter Lynch Preference

Flavor: Volpe, GIF, NomNom

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Im on both town lists. Neat.

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Commuter Lynch Preference

Flavor: Volpe, GIF, NomNom
A50: Volpe, GIF, Nomnom
Ankamius: GIF, Nomnom, Volpe

[Flavor Leaf]

Also we have to consider that Leading Actors are still standing up despite Elements having been killed so the chance that the 2 people remaining in that hood are town or both scum are higher.

That is EP and I. We outed yesterday. Well, I outed.

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@FL: Why do you think Farkran was the NK?

Volpe was probably trying to frame me. But Fakran had just started to town read me, so I’m just being annoying by saying that.

I feel scum just wanted to kill someone who wanted majorly change the way the game was going, mixed in with most players town reading them. Usually low presence kills like that are a sign of scum trying to coast the game, and keep it the status quo.

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The fact that Skitter thinks Volpe is scum makes me more confident with it, so I don’t think I’m going to second guess that anymore.

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The only reason Nomnom might be above GIF for me at any moment is because this “scum terror if they get our ability” and i can’t really think of anything scum could get that would make them that deadly.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m here. I don’t feel like reading right now, just @ me if ya need me.

[Flavor Leaf]

Essentially, I think there’s scum in the commuter neighborhood. Day 1 was all about that, and now nomnom’s saying they have a dangerous ability.

I want to lynch Volpe, but I’m not gonna tunnel, so after the lack of response to my last activity push, I got demotivated.

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I’ll likely be charged back up real soon, maybe even this is the cause of it, but that’s where my head’s at right now.

[Flavor Leaf]

and it's not weird at all that people came in suggesting to lynch within that neighborhood immediately and to create lists of what order people would be willing to lynch each slot?

What do you mean by people? It was just me saying that, and people followed.

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Also, how is it not useful to do the list like that if wanting to lynch within the commuters.

The majority of my plays when I do thing like that help solve scum nearly every single time, or at least cause some great discussion and things for players to be forced to take stances on.

Scum are constantly pushing aside things I do like that, so there is 100% scum within the people who pushed that aside, BELIEVE IT!

[Flavor Leaf]

and it's not weird at all that people came in suggesting to lynch within that neighborhood immediately and to create lists of what order people would be willing to lynch each slot?

What do you mean by people? It was just me saying that, and people followed.

I actually have a great town record, and even my what people will call “bad town games” i usually catch at least 50% of the scum.

A50 knows I am one of the, if not, the biggest threat to his scum game, which probably makes him super happy if he rolls town against me.

I am better at town than I am scum. I’m just unorthodox as is my scum game.

[Flavor Leaf]

If I were scum, I’d have figured everything out by now, just saying.

I’m not against a mass claim.

I love Day 2 massclaim

[Flavor Leaf]

That relies on you thinking that his scummates wouldn’t be setting up gamestate elsewhere, though? Cover all pockets. I didn’t read every quote, but what I got from it is you town read him because you don’t think scum him would push you when you weren’t playing the game?

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If I knew, I’d have called it out, and y’all would have made sure to mislynch me afterwards, while I wait annoyed that I solved the game, and everyone just ignores it.

Scum don’t position themselves together in-game, they spread out. How they spread out is what association tells bring.

I think position scum all together is a really strong scum move that people just don’t take advantage of more often because high risk high reward.

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I could see a majority being on side lines. There’s a lot of players who come in and then disappear for a while, and if that’s considered sidelines as well, then sure, I could agree with that to an extent.

[Flavor Leaf]

This game slowed down a bunch. Scum probably are just waiting for someone to make a push.

[Flavor Leaf]

Here’s the thing I have with EP. A lot of people are scum reading him apparently, but I feel that it’s odd nobody seems worried about me getting the Last Man Standing ability in the neighborhood.

So I feel scum are scum reading EP so they can kill me tonight, and get rid of that Last Man Standing, which means somewhere this game, I was considered a threat to the scum team. Where is the question.

[Flavor Leaf]

I still don’t like it. It reeks of scum threatened by me.

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Funny enough

I'm realizing that I might be close to a solve without really analyzing for one

I was feeling the same way, however, like I said yesterday, scum are in the town reads.

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I think GammaGooey or Maria have scum in them. I feel like they’re part of the same neighborhood, and one is driving along the other, if that makes sense.

[Flavor Leaf]

I maintain that its unlikely town has any actual threats as of yet

I’m always pre-coital.

Scum have paranoia threats, i bet you that.

[Flavor Leaf]

I maintain that its unlikely town has any actual threats as of yet

I’m always pre-coital.

Scum have paranoia threats, i bet you that.

Yet Farkran died?

They were targeting you, I believe, and had just recently started town reading me.

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I'm actually reasonably confident that the major conflicts are either TvT or irrelevant in the grand scheme of things

it's more productive to look on the outliers for that and see who's working the sides of it than anything

this reminds me that chenn mentioned stuff about this that would indicate town although I'd need to double check to lock that

if the pieces are falling into place properly, GIF/Deas/Gamma/'lurkers'/EP/elements should probably have the scumteam

I'm struggling to see most of the other players fitting into this right now

Ok. May i suggest taking a step forward from simple generalization and try to concretize these posts into actual names?

Volpe vs FL = TvT
Farkran vs Chennis = TvT
Farkran vs Nom = TvT
Farkran vs Ankamius = TvT

...that's a lot of farkran, adding in that i've been fighting with FL too. You must really think i am bad at being town, if every one of my "fights" has been picked against town. I'm not taking it on a personal level or being prideful, i just find it hard to believe that you think i have been wrong every single time, yet you're still townreading me. I would understand not being sure, but *all* of those people -including me- are hard townreads of yours.

I see that you are treating Nom vs GIF and volpe vs Elements, perhaps Maria vs Daves? in a different fashion though. However... i don't understand why? What's the difference?

I've finished my reread of GIF ISO, can't find anything wonky or scummy in there, but i found out that my hardtownread was probably mostly out of early agreement bias and i may need to update it. I'd like someone to point out anything i am missing.

On the other hand i think i don't scumread FL anymore after his recent exchange with chennis. Dave and gammagoey probably fell for the bait, but reacted spontaneously so that's a confirm about dave for me, and improving my gammagoey read.

VOTE: ankamius

You’re pushing it like Fakran died for no reason, and I’ve been trying to avoid bringing it up, because I town read you earlier pretty strongly, but these were literally Fakran’s last posts.

It makes a hell of a lot of sense for you to kill Fakran. And I’ve been trying to test the waters to see if I think it was a frame or not, but everybody was pushing the NKA aside. I don’t think it was some random kill.

[Flavor Leaf]

I've been working from both scum! and town!anka POV when reading your posts. You are not aggressive nor inquisitive, which is usually a scum trait in my experience, but i have seen town players do that so it's nothing decisive.

I'm only aggressive when I'm confident in my own conclusions and find inherent value in pushing them, I'm not going to be aggressive when I'm not expecting any results from what I'm pushing

I had a lot of issues with deathtunneling years back so I'm more careful about what I push and why

Ok, trying from a different angle: how are you scumhunting in this game? What are you looking for in people's posts to form reads, besides activity and effort?

Because my problem with you now is that i don't see you doing any of that. It is early, but you're feeling way too cautious and you seem to be expecting the game to solve itself, but contrary to a lurker you are also paying enough attention and posting stuff that i see as empty. This is the point of me asking you "why am i wrong?", because surely you don't think your posts are empty... i guess?

Also what's the point of having a readlist that almost coincides with post count? Did you notice it at all?

oh

yeah you just don't understand my playstyle

huh

my first thought was not having farkran's read hang over me would help me get more into the game

but I'm even more uninvested than before

strange

There was 1 more brushing off Fakran for not knowing your playstyle post on your 1st page of ISO that didn’t show up, and I feel like your constantly shutting down any pushes I make.

[Flavor Leaf]

It makes a lot of sense for me to kill farkran, yes

It makes sense for nearly everybody to kill farkran, yes

If you got that I was saying farkran died for no reason, then you're just putting words in my mouth. I think farkran died because he was a universal townread and generating the most information. Who in their right mind doesn't kill farkran?

I wouldn’t have killed Fakran. I wasn’t town reading him as strongly as you guys were, and he had just come around town reading me, something that wasn’t necessarily going to be happening throughout this game, and now I seem to be in the semi clear after Fakran dies?

Hell no, I’m being sheep dogged here.

Sheep dog gin’, when scum are actively guiding, or herding, a townie to play into a specific area in the game to have them completely controlled and contained, even if they go unpredictable. They let them run in their little pen, and if they become a hassle, they can just take them out.

[Flavor Leaf]

Alright genius, who exactly do you kill in his place than

Volpe.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think GammaGooey or Maria have scum in them. I feel like they’re part of the same neighborhood, and one is driving along the other, if that makes sense.

[Flavor Leaf]

Alright genius, who exactly do you kill in his place than

Volpe.

Maybe GIF.

[Flavor Leaf]

You'd nightkill into the single biggest source of tension in the entire game?

Yes. Do you think I wouldn’t?

[Flavor Leaf]

I think GammaGooey or Maria have scum in them. I feel like they’re part of the same neighborhood, and one is driving along the other, if that makes sense.

This is baseless and holds no merit. The only way to prove or disprove this is by giving you information on if we're in the same hood or not. That is pretty scummy in and of itself.

Then don’t. I’m not asking you too. It’s a comment made to see if I’m correct later in the game. No need to worry about it now.

[Flavor Leaf]

To

[Flavor Leaf]

Like, is FL being stupid or obviously scummy

This is pretty much the golden standard comment for FL town who’s about to get into deep solve mode, regardless of what Maria’s alignment is.

[Flavor Leaf]

Certainly not the play I would've made!!!

Sort of the point that was being made here from the beginning.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think FL is focusing on the wrong things here but I don't think it's scummy

Flip EP scum and ask me again though

This line of reasoning is what I don’t like.

If EP flips scum, I’m getting pushed as scum as well.

If EP flips town, a I’m getting pushed as scum.

And that’s if I don’t eat a night kill because I’d get the Last Man Standing ability.

You know, if I was the one pushing within my neighborhood, people would be throwing a fit.

[Flavor Leaf]

What are the odds I become a wagon at some point today?

Never tell me the odds.

[Flavor Leaf]

Undecided, but probably not.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think Ank’s a Serial killer.

[Flavor Leaf]

Whoever I tell you to.

[Flavor Leaf]

It was more of a general comment than directed right at you. I get the confusion, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

Can’t help it. I have a certain type of charm people just wanna listen to.

[Flavor Leaf]

they called me a punk in there and I didn’t like it and it hurt my feelings.

Is this the important information...?

[Flavor Leaf]

Chennis/Gammagooey

Anyone else seeing it?

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, Ankamius could be scum flirting trying to not get me to push her.

I need more time to think about that.

[Flavor Leaf]

I feel scum is in Fakran’s hood, Gammagooey hood, and commuter hood. If there’s a 4th, there could be another in another hood, i just don’t know which yet.

DEB said “someone else” in his post outing Gamma, so I’m assuming that he was in a hood outside of Fakran.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, if there’s a traitor this game, I think people should consider the fact that there could be 2 scum in a neighborhood, and one of them aren’t even aware of it.

I feel there’s a lot of assumptions going around, and idk why people are all okay with the commuter hood now

[Flavor Leaf]

What

[Flavor Leaf]

Idk why FL would call me a SK over scum though

I just want you to be my SK.

[Flavor Leaf]

Fark was the best NK for FL/nomnom and a below average NK to a team outiside of nomnom/FL that should be more worried about Ank the paragon reaching the conclusion that it's a lot of TvTs.

Comment on this, Ankamius, please.

Because we talked earlier about something similar.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, tell me when Volpe’s done with this tunnel. He’s either scum pushing me or town pushing me because they heard about my scum game and don’t want to get duped by it. RC can’t not see me as scum either ever because of it when we played together way back when.

[Flavor Leaf]

He’s also using associations to try and read me, which would just never happen as scum. I’ve literally WIFOM claimed my entire scum team, and people got wifom’d so hard they didn’t lynch them.

Mafia A La Mode, I wifom’d in death so hard, and then the next 2 mislynches were exactly what I set it up to be.

Another thing wrecking Volpe’s case is he’s saying stuff is happening so I can get the Last Man Standing ability. I’ve been actively trying not to have EP die.

Like literally, that was one of the bigger things from this day phase of me saying scum are trying to kill EP so they can kill me.

And Volpe either purposefully or ignorantly ignored that.

[Flavor Leaf]

It just ricks my rockers when people go “Farkran was the best kill for FL” when it absolutely wasn’t. I ain’t no basic ass normie scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Here’s the thing I have with EP. A lot of people are scum reading him apparently, but I feel that it’s odd nobody seems worried about me getting the Last Man Standing ability in the neighborhood.

So I feel scum are scum reading EP so they can kill me tonight, and get rid of that Last Man Standing, which means somewhere this game, I was considered a threat to the scum team. Where is the question.

I think FL is focusing on the wrong things here but I don't think it's scummy

Flip EP scum and ask me again though

This line of reasoning is what I don’t like.

If EP flips scum, I’m getting pushed as scum as well.

If EP flips town, a I’m getting pushed as scum.

And that’s if I don’t eat a night kill because I’d get the Last Man Standing ability.

You know, if I was the one pushing within my neighborhood, people would be throwing a fit.

Like Volpe is literally just copying what I said except using it to push.

It just feels like a way to tie me to getting mislynched.

[Flavor Leaf]

FL/nomnom conviniently forgets about GiF or me and remembers us as soon as someone else brings it up too.

nomnom in day 1 was focused in:

Fark, GiF, me. (even before the hood thing, notice).

2 of those are her hoodmates and Fark is dead.

In the hood nomnom said for me to stop confbiasing her slot and lynch GiF if she was "nightkilled" (why the hell would she be NK'ed?). I replied back that she at least should give me something more relatable about suspects other than GiF since we would have a 4 man scum team anyway.

She stopped talking/didn't reply back there.

I didn’t forget, I’ve clearly stated later I think there’s scum in the commuter neighborhood. There’s more scum than just that, and that’s a weak misrepped case by you.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Volpe - what do you mean Ank getting doubted again? Why should I have her as lock town? I’m allowed to think about my reads and I actively stated I wasn’t going to push her today. She asked about it even. I feel that’s a very reasonable place to be with regards to her slot.

Fakran has just town read me and switched over to Ankamius in his last 2 posts.

Ank also said anyone would kill Fakran, which I already disagreed with for Ank, so how come it specifically comes back to me?

I have actively not been okay with EP, and going over those odds
I straight up stated I wasn’t going to push a wagon on Ank here. (Probably not, or something of the Like was said)

I even started looking OUTSIDE the commuter neighborhood that I was tunneled in.

Like, to me, it seems like it doesn’t even matter what I do, you’re just going to force it into some scum narrative. This is the main reason I am lean scum with you, now Skitter also agrees with that, amongst a few others. This also coincides with you being in the hood you are.

[Flavor Leaf]

I just hate that Volpe and I are literally pushing the same thing, and somehow it’s my fault

[Flavor Leaf]

Surface level, maybe. That’s another reason I think scum is in the commuter hood.

[Flavor Leaf]

GIF hasn’t done much this day phase, but I feel like the length of this day has been deceiving, so i don’t think that’s AI.

[Flavor Leaf]

Chennis, you’re my number 3 scum read right now.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why is that?

I don’t think you’re scum, but you’re my number 3 scum read. Does that make sense?

[Flavor Leaf]

Volpe/Gammagooey/Chennis

Are my three. I don’t necessarily think that’s the scum team, though.

GIF/Nomnom can replace a slot in there, probably Volpe.

[Flavor Leaf]

I kind of forgot about Dave, and I’m cautious of Maria.

Ank pocketed me, so I’m gonna throw shade there, but she effectively stopped any inkling of pushing there.

[Flavor Leaf]

ScumGooey was more solidified, if that helps, punk.

[Flavor Leaf]

Volpe drowned your post out

[Flavor Leaf]

As someone who accidentally had that exact same trust tell years back, I’d say it was a legitimate trust tell, and made the game go on faith that “this is the game he chose to break said trust tell” which is kinda crappy anyways, and a complete abuse of a trust tell regardless.

And I already was thinking Elements was likely town, if I were around at the time of all that going down, I probably would have been like “well, he’s town.” but it was for outside reasons. It was an awkward thing to look out no matter what, but I do think the discussion about Kuribo TMI’ing is solid, but not absolute, if that makes sense. Kuribo’s just a hot head.

[Flavor Leaf]

ALL CAPS

[Flavor Leaf]

Oh, a 1v1 was happening, and I felt left out

[Flavor Leaf]

Fark was the best NK for FL/nomnom and a below average NK to a team outiside of nomnom/FL that should be more worried about Ank the paragon reaching the conclusion that it's a lot of TvTs.

Comment on this, Ankamius, please.

Because we talked earlier about something similar.

except I have

I literally said earlier that the only way you two are scum together is if part of your gameplan is specifically to discredit or throw me off

that specific scenario is possible enough because that was my general stance throughout day 1 anyways and Farkran himself had attacked me for that stance

I put enough stock in NKA that it's a realistic enough tertiary reason to be part of a game plan if part of the scumteam's agenda is to keep me in a state of "why aren't you doing enough" that was shoved down my throat endlessly d1; it's proven to be effective so why NOT go with it?

I’ve never once stated that about you here, and you’d have had to white knight me super hard yesterday if you are scum. Why not just let me go.

That’s what you got going for me right now.

[Flavor Leaf]

I feel like town is just getting into a bunch of 1v1s right now instead of doing stuff/working together and atm I'm too lazy to really attempt a jumpstart again

You’re not getting lynched today.

Side note, Volpe gonna blow a gasket, but EP ‘might’ have scum slipped in my neighborhood.

[Flavor Leaf]

Didn’t mean to quote Maria post.
GammaGooey/Chennis still off to me.
Volpe/Gif/Nomnom need to be taken care of.

I gotta figure things out wit( EP.

[Flavor Leaf]

Bye Felicia

[Flavor Leaf]

I feel like town is just getting into a bunch of 1v1s right now instead of doing stuff/working together and atm I'm too lazy to really attempt a jumpstart again

You’re not getting lynched today.

Side note, Volpe gonna blow a gasket, but EP ‘might’ have scum slipped in my neighborhood.

I rescind this; I misread a post.

[Flavor Leaf]

Let’s lynch GammaGooey.

[Flavor Leaf]

Tinfoil theory, Gamma’s positioning on Maria’s list is because she wanted to put him on it to not seem suspicious, but doesn’t want him to die because him flipping town would make people come after her.

But that’s just a theory.

A tinfoil theory.

[Flavor Leaf]

Oh, there’s base.

There’s base alright.

And when I can figure out what that is, you betcha I’m coming for it.

[Flavor Leaf]

If Gamma flips scum, you still think there’d be no base?

[Flavor Leaf]

@DEB - if you ever see this, why did Gamma call you a punk

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm fully caught up.

So here's where i am at:

- I townread

davesaz

for trying to sort FL vs volpe in an obvtown fashion
...
- I am slightly concerned about

Maria

for disappearing after that espresso read. Need more content from there, it looks like a veteran slot, reminds me of Micc. Internal consistency and good logic are more NAI here than elsewhere. Inclined to townlean her though.
...
- Scumleaning

Gammagooey

for his readlist and timing. Need more content though.

Hey Fark, can you try to describe what about dave's posts on volpe & FL are obvtown to you? I agree that volpe's read on Elements was a generally good thing for dave to look into, but the tone of dave's posts around there feels more commentaryish to me than investigative to me personally, and I think that type of content can pretty easily come from scum as well.

I also think I get where you could be coming from in regards to Maria and I not being around at particular points in the game, but I want you to think about that for a second for me. Do you think it's particularly likely that either of us are limiting our posting specifically in a way that scum are likely to do this early?

For myself I can promise you that I wouldn't want to deal with the volpe/FL clusterfuck before bed (and in fact still would prefer not to deal with it because I think a lot of FL's posts are likely posting for the sake of his own amusement/ego in that big ol' section and I doubt I'll be able to interpret anything useful out of his posts there) as either alignment, and people 'disappearing' (which I'm taking to mean posting once or twice in a discussion and then bailing) in general in a game this big is a lot more likely to be 'the person had real life shit they wanted/needed to do' or just didn't feel like dealing with the game at the time than scum-motivated hiding from the thread.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last thing that'll probably be ignored - I would really like for the posting here to lighten up a little, at least until Almost/Easy Bake/volxen/etc show up with an actual opinion or two - I really want at least one or two solid opinions from everyone before I start diving into actually trying to get someone lynched today. Think before you spampost my friends.

This could be why Fakran died?

Also GammaGooey was chopping me down here. This is how a lot of people act towards me when they’re scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

No, because the only 'base' is the one you magically have come up with out of thin air.

I’m like an air bender, yee doggie

[Flavor Leaf]

notes on volpe+FL (and some other posts in the wasteland from page 18 or so to 30)

-feels like they're just talking past each other on page 19 in regards to this

I was coming around Ank/Vex/MariaR as making sense but Chennis/Nom gives me some creepy vibes. Maybe FL.

(FL is harping that that volpe's comments on specific scumteams have him and chennis on it that were both scumreading him and is basically ignoring the Ank/Vex/MariaR mention
because it has the word "but" after it, while volpe gets mad that his intended meaning of *I think either Ank/Vex/Maria or Chennis/Nom are reasonable scumteams* is getting ignored)

-I think that both Volpe and nom feel like they're reacting genuinely to all this, Volpe is stream of consciousness posting basically all of his thoughts in this timeframe and it feels a lot more like an exasperated town mindset than a scum one
I think a few things are fakeable on their own as scum (viewtopic.php?p=11481955#p11481955) of wanting FL dead but not being surprised if he gets lynched instead could be written off as a 'pity me' scumplay, (viewtopic.php?p=11481990#p11481990) could be scum shading FL, (viewtopic.php?p=11482011#p11482011) could be scum committing to a tunnel,
but all together I think it paints a really good idea of what volpe is thinking at the time (especially considering most of these posts are minutes apart) and it doesn't feel like scum trying to get FL lynched at all costs, it feels like town going 'FL wtf are you doing literally none of this makes sense your push on me is garbage'.

nom bringing up the QT thing at the time with volpe saying he was going to change his meta for the game also feels like town saying 'fuck you, no, your argument is bullshit, i will chase you down and murder you with your own words' in a way that would make her look worse as scum if she actually get what she wants (a mislynch on volpe-town) and is way more likely to come from nom as town genuinely convinced that she's chasing down what she thinks is a scum lynch.

relevant things that I see FL do buried in the mountain of AtE and posting about himself: the initial volpe push, unvoting volpe, saying his 3 earlier scumreads are now townreads, saying he wants to vote nom (I've gone over his iso now too and I don't see why except maybe that she's pushing back on FL a little and still pushing volpe after FL unvoted?), and that's finally it.

----------------------------------------------------end of notes--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I guess my read on FL is very slightly scum but I can see him doing basically all this nonsense as either alignment. Last time I played with him he fakeclaimed a guilty (on scum, tbf) in a way that made it really obvious to me that he was fakeclaiming and I basically tunneled on him until a jester fakeclaimed a guilty on me and I got daykilled (it was not a fun game). An update on who he (and GiF actually, he hasn't been pushing anyone recently and I've lost track of who he's scumreading) are scumreading would be very appreciated.

Since Almost has posted enough for people to get a read on him now I feel like he deserves a break from me for at least a bit.

Attention: The Gooey votetrain is now leaving the station. To request a votestop on a non town-read

wagon

station, please pull on the wire and send a note with the reason for your request in the provided slot to be sent to the conductor.

VOTE: volxen

Really is chopping at me. I didn’t even realize. Why the Volxen vote over me?

[Flavor Leaf]

No, because the only 'base' is the one you magically have come up with out of thin air.

I’m like an air bender, yee doggie

Can you fly away until you come up with better logic or is that asking for too much?

I have logic, and bet I’ll get to this bottom of it, I’m diving gamma now

[Flavor Leaf]

you've just lurked through the entire first week of the game

Spoiler:

my friend

I have been literally outed scum just spamposting music videos before and I enjoy that kind of nonsense quite a lot
but you gotta find some balance between actually posting things that will let people actually tell that you're reading the game and bothering to play it and fun music video nonsense posting

or one day sooner than you think you will find a wagon on you and nobody who gives a shit about bothering to save your ass from it because they're not going to bother putting more effort to think about your alignment than you've put into thinking about the whole damn game

step up your damn game son

Hmm. Is this why he called Deb a punk

[Flavor Leaf]

No, because the only 'base' is the one you magically have come up with out of thin air.

I’m like an air bender, yee doggie

Can you fly away until you come up with better logic or is that asking for too much?

I have logic, and bet I’ll get to this bottom of it, I’m diving gamma now

If you dive into gamma right now and somehow connect the two of us in a convincing way I'll entertain the idea, but I'll wait until that happens.

I’ve actively stated that I think one of you guys are scum, not both. I initially thought you were in a neighborhood together, but Debbie doggie doodoo came out and debunked that.

Idk. I’ll air bend for a bit longer, and see what I came up with, but I am starting to feel like I’m right for the wrong reasons somewhere.

[Flavor Leaf]

Hmm, i really did pull it out of thin air.

[Flavor Leaf]

hey im just gonna quote something from Reck, one of the mods of gay mafia 2 & this game and also kuribo who is a player in this game and is opposing people claiming their neighborhoods

Town had power. Just that true to Gay Mafia tradition,scum managed to out them

Yep.

the sk definitely had an uphill struggle. re-direcotr/roleblocker/fbi agent - any of those targeting the SK basically ends the game for it? + lack of anything to claim iirc? well she did have a 1-shot ability theif type role? uphill struggle but that's what you'd expect for an SK so it's fine.

i think the scum role synergy was pretty strong (bookie + governor = ++) and the re-director role is a bad one when the player isn't informed (and basically bastard IMO). town maybe could have used a stronger role or two? but I think town had a lot of obvious town roles that when claimed made them very hard to lynch.

Scum role synergy was def. strong, but I don't think it's bastard to say "Your target" instead of "PLAYERNAME" when giving results.

it's almost like it makes sense or something
If we think scum has an entire neighborhood to themselves b/c of nightkills or night actions we can massclaim then and figure it out. Let's not blow our loads this early please.

Also I'm gonna join Maria on this for a bit because I just kind of expected him to be better than he has been so far
VOTE: Deasvail

It was this post. It was mainly because I thought they were same neighborhood. I guess my Maria tinfoil is now just Maria paranoia mixed in with a Gamma scum read whilst remembering I once thought of a tinfoil of them being connected through neighborhood, which is confirmed not a thing.

[Flavor Leaf]

It existed, but got debunked by the punk

[Flavor Leaf]

I think it was a fair assessment. His DV vote was suspicious.

If he’s scum, I’m still correct in that he’s a vicious suspicious ofishious

[Flavor Leaf]

And i have since re-evaluated. Jingle says that’s my biggest strength as town, and a reason why it’s dangerous for scum to keep me alive late game.

[Flavor Leaf]

Didn't Ank have solid meta insights on Volxen or am I misrembering things

This could be a TMI of a TMI.

TMInception

[Flavor Leaf]

Don’t worry, I’ll be back soon.

[Flavor Leaf]

Wow

I can

’t

believe my eyes

The world’s filled with black and white

[Flavor Leaf]

Wow

I can

’t

not believe my eyes

The world’s filled with black and white

[Flavor Leaf]

Where we at fools. Need me to push someone?

[Flavor Leaf]

I forgot he was in this game before you guys started talking about him.

[Flavor Leaf]

Actually, I think I saw a post of his and was like “totally forgot about him”

[Flavor Leaf]

We on page 4, our last posts were January 12th.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m essentially MIA’d lately. Got some projects I’ve been working on, so I’m exhausted.

[Flavor Leaf]

There's the FL I've come to expect.

It happens. i always try to come in swinging when I can mentally be in it, though.

I’m here nonstop. I’ve been nonstop modding for 14 months straight now, and I don’t think it’s slowing down.

I have a Normal game series I’m starting up now too.

Imma main stream Mafia eventually, guys. The filmmaker/actor in me dubs it true.

Y’all see all those people playing Mafia online for 2m+ views and it’s straight up not good mafia? They kill on N0 and have cops go. Oi...like every single one of them.

It’s coming.

[Flavor Leaf]

I said in my neighborhood that I’m utterly ambivalent towards the Volxen wagon.

Creature’s gonna come in, spam post, and spew the slot townier regardless of alignment.

I think I’m cool ending the day before dealing with that.

[Flavor Leaf]

I was half waiting to do my Did somebody say L-1 outta nowhere bit, but I’m about to see 1917, and we’ll see if I feel like being here after.

VOTE: Creature

[Flavor Leaf]

I feel god on this chili’s tonight.

I feel the love.

[Flavor Leaf]

Kuribo and FB gonna be annoying.

One of FB/Nomnom scum.

Gamma’s still likely scum.

Chennis had a bad end of the day phase yesterday.

[Flavor Leaf]

Who’s pant?

[Flavor Leaf]

UNVOTE:

actually rc reads are trash. I am going to rely on my boi, bitboi.

he is goat tier and best boi. Winning game strat

Thoughts on Nomnomnom

[Flavor Leaf]

hoo boy i messed that quote up somehow

anyway

Chennis had a bad end of the day phase yesterday.

in what way? how's it more likely to come from scum than town?

Because it looks like he was just doing stuff for the sake of doing stuff, like TMI’ing almost.

Gamma/Chennis scum team.

I’m gonna do some VCA, and game solving this day phase.

Today is my day.

There’s scum in whatever neighborhood Volxen was in likely.

[Flavor Leaf]

Before my deep analysis, it’s Chenn/Gamma, then one of the Commuter Hood. I just got burned for assuming 4 scum in a large, I’m not sure if I wanna assume 4 scum again.

[Flavor Leaf]

the hood i am in, volpe said chennisden is lock town and to lynch nom/kuribo/FL if volpe died.

and volpe died. what does it mean?

Volpe’s been deathtunneled on Nomnom and myself as the scum team since Day 1.

You said this game was boring, that was most of it was Volpe vs FL.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also for anyone who cares my vote on Deas is reinforced by the fact that his behavior around volxen feels like scum setting up to take advantage of a town-volxen flip while he also seems very unconcerned by both Anka and Almost/skitter coming in with "hey this is actually just what volxen does as scum"

And I still think nom looks very town from her initial fight with volpe early game and 180'ing her read on him at the beginning of that so if you think Deas has a mitigating factor of 'maybe he's right about nom being scum' plz tell me why I'm wrong

Towniest thing you’ve said in a while tbh. First part.

Nomnom or FB should be the lynch today.

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If not either of them, let’s go Chennis.

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My thing with Kuribo is despite people saying only scum report Elements for the trust tell and whatnot, I actually feel like scum is more likely to complain and report it privately rather than publicly.

Kuribo does get mad when he’s scum, I caught him last year as scum and he replaced out.