White Flag - TM2020

[CheekyTeeky]

Technically I didn't hammer. Hey look, no wagon on you! I better get busy

[CheekyTeeky]

Auro - 4 (Cephrir, Hopkirk, Espeonage, Formerfish)

I have briefly skimmed this game. Not town reading this wagon plus Dunnstral who I keep flip-flopping on

Hubby </3. Why? I thought you'd always be faithful.

Kitty-mo is my strongest town read, everyone else seems ok?

Auro could you rank my suspects from towniest to scummiest from your POV?

[CheekyTeeky]

Townie: Wgeurt, Kitty, Ceph, Hop, Espy

Nullie: Dunn, NSG, Gob

Scummie: Dann, Joan, Auro, Dong

T: Ceph, Hop

TL: Kitty, Espy, Gob

N: Dunn, NSG, Joan

SL: Auro, Wgeurt

S: Dann, Dong

I feel like there have been a lot of changes to these reads since i caught up and interacted with different people.

I feel like im more here now.

Auro where are you on Dann right now?

What did I do to fall from grace?

Talk to me about Ceph and Hop. No

bs

wall.

[CheekyTeeky]

Townie: Wgeurt, Kitty, Ceph, Hop, Espy

Nullie: Dunn, NSG, Gob

Scummie: Dann, Joan, Auro, Dong

T: Ceph, Hop

TL: Kitty, Espy, Gob

N: Dunn, NSG, Joan

SL: Auro, Wgeurt

S: Dann, Dong

I feel like there have been a lot of changes to these reads since i caught up and interacted with different people.

I feel like im more here now.

Auro where are you on Dann right now?

What did I do to fall from grace?

Talk to me about Ceph and Hop. No

bs

wall.

Turkey I think you're pretty great. Stop caring about how you're perceived and do you.

I'm surprised this is a set-up you didn't want, I took you for a competitive player who would like the challenge.

[CheekyTeeky]

Ignore the quote.

[CheekyTeeky]

I'm surprised this is a set-up you didn't want, I took you for a competitive player who would like the challenge.

Subtlety. If you're going to buddy him, try not being this on the nose.

I dont like this post at all.

I feel like you've shot yourself in the foot with your own read here. Yes WIFOM but like duh I would be more subtle if scum.

I think a lot of gobble's posts read like he's overly self-conscious and that's going to throw any reads on him plus take away from his own ability to interact and get decent reads.

Tell me more feisty Dong.

[CheekyTeeky]

VOTE: Formerfish

[CheekyTeeky]

VOTE: wgeurts

Thats me

[CheekyTeeky]

Saving me for dessert?

[CheekyTeeky]

I can't bus them it's white flag!
Why Dong?

[CheekyTeeky]

If this is mountanious like i've been told we have an easy win on our hands. In the meantime while i catch scum:
VOTE: Formerfish

Auros not my scumread, i think that defending himself isnt indicative of scumminess but rather misplaced focus. Espeonage is my highest scumread right now and former would have to come second though its not half as strong as esp.

Dong distancing from FF?

[CheekyTeeky]

BB how are they scumposts? Have you read further than those two posts? Any other reads?

[CheekyTeeky]

town: auro, hopkirk, cephrir
lean town: formerfish

Dann can you help me see Hopkirk town?

Also I like your point about the Auro wagon being fine by scum hence no counter, what do you think scum are doing? Are there some on Auro? Are they lurking?

Like what does a stagnant wagon mean to you?

Bonus work: why is FF now a townread for you? You've interacted some with Kitty, do you have a read there?

On a side note Dunn is obv town according to pops.

[CheekyTeeky]

Hopkirk, I can town case him tomorrow, I need to sleep first. I would ask why you're so down on him though? What are your concerns? He's the sort of slot I just want to point to and be like "obv town lol"

I've had one game with the hop and he was scum who looked town and won. So I might have PTSD(post-traumatic scum disorder) as all I get from reading his ISO is wtf? I'm not leaning one way or the other just genuinely perplexed and would like to see others' takes there.


In regards to FF, I feel like he's trying to be town instead of being town. I adore town FF and this game just feels like a shell of that. Could it be that the pressure of the TM stage is altering the play I'm used to from him? Sure, but less so and from a less relatable place than my Turkey read.

I also don't follow his read progessions, like how does my slot go from town to scum lean with no posts in between? Why do I get the feeling his reads are a jigsaw he's piecing together based on likely lynch trajectories?

His interactions feel like self-aware read interventions rather than the comically aggressive kick-ass-I-don't-care-if-you-hate-me pushes and tunnels I've seen.
I'm heartbroken.

[CheekyTeeky]

eddie says hi cheeky

ankamius and the worst got jealous and would also like to say hi

Hey guys xx
That's a pretty goat team.

[CheekyTeeky]

If you think I'm scum hoppers, come say it to my face.
1

[CheekyTeeky]

Hops catchup summarised:

"I like soft defending FF. I could probably mislynch cheeky. I'm going to scumread the towny people because I'm fun, have a personality and can get away with it"

Is it not of interest to scum to discredit town reads and push in bad trajectories? Just saying.

My team is divided on Dann but I'm pretty happy saying he's town.

If you actually read Kitty's words her pushes and tone make sense in a way I don't see coming from scum. I can go into this if needed but like there's a lot of words. I love you guys though so I'll do it if I have to.

The recent momentum on nsg is interesting. I'm watching you sneaky scumbutts.

[CheekyTeeky]

BB. I need more from you. Tell me about FF and Hop when you get a chance.

[CheekyTeeky]

Gobbles where you at?

[CheekyTeeky]

Eddie: how much moongrass has Hopkirk been smoking? Is it the same amount as mbaki?

[CheekyTeeky]

I'm hoping Flopz doesn't read this game. He's really not a fan of that kind of 'oh let's reference past games and hope nobody notices while we laugh at the people not in the loop' style.

Hop 'Hoppery' Hopkirk

There's a question in there about how I'm reading you. Don't feel left out, I also hate elitism or 'in-groups'

[CheekyTeeky]

Is anything you said their actually an invitation for me to respond to or is it you standing on a box and trying to tell other people not to listen to me?

Hop 'Hoppp' Hoppers

I'm surprised you took my summary seriously and responded to my points in it. If I were a scumread of yours would you not see what I've done as disingenuous misrepping or something? I don't like how reasonable you're trying to be, it feels like you know I'm town.

[CheekyTeeky]

Cephrir can I get a reads list from you?

[CheekyTeeky]

It sounded serious.
I try and treat the person I'm talking to as town to avoid deathtunneling them which I used to do a lot.

I was oversimplifying your posts with my biased angle on purpose to get a reaction. The summary contains my key concerns but I'm not really sure how I feel about you.

You seem too careful. Like sure it could be because you don't want to death tunnel, but why not tunnel me a bit to see how scummy I am? When I'm town and someone misreps my posts, particularly after a long catch up, I get mad, not rational. You seem calmly calculated.

I'll point out some specific issues with your catch up shortly.

[CheekyTeeky]

Are you talking about my personality or yours?

[CheekyTeeky]

Hop you said gobbles would crack the game for you. Could you tell me what a town gobble and scum gobble mean?

[CheekyTeeky]

CheekyTeeky- scummish purely because my team didn't like your predecessor
Auro- scum, but not as hard locked as i'd like to be
Dunnstral- idk
northsidegal- scum, i guess
Dongempire- idk, i find this person to be low charisma which makes them a challenging read
Espeonage- idk

I've removed all the town reads - you've got a pretty good poe here, not that I agree but surely with such a narrow field you'd feel good about changing those idk reads into something?

I almost lock towned you for being so handsome

[CheekyTeeky]

How many votes on nsg?

[CheekyTeeky]

VOTE: NSG

[CheekyTeeky]

I am trying to work out if Auro pressure dropped off bc Auro shut up and town lost interest, or because it was scum pushed. Solving that would make me happy.

What would it take for you to solve this?

[CheekyTeeky]

NSG can you like just give us some townreads so we can move on? Someone on your team is clearly reading so should have some opinion even if it's not solid.

Sure you might have your way about winning this game with your amazing reads but it's unfair that you don't give us an opportunity to read you and then get mad at the wagon attempting to force you to give content. The sooner you give us a bone and shut us down the sooner we can move on and have less people distracted by you attempting to avoid the NK.

[CheekyTeeky]

You're a dramatic grouch Espeon not sure I buy it. You remind me of Reck in TM last year tho and he was town.
A push on someone other than Auro might help you solve seeing as there are more than 1 scum on a scumteam. Can you be more specific than "most of the playerlist"

[CheekyTeeky]

I see the opposite as true if Auro flips scum in that it implicates Dann and if he's town that implicates Espeon.

What advantage would Dann have in pocketing Auro?

[CheekyTeeky]

Auro is argumentative and vocal. Both strong qualities in someone town reading you.

My breakdown is that I doubt the entire scum team would jump on to a wagon all together, which is why I would not expect a prominent three person wagon to contain more than 1 or 2 scum.

Sure they're strong qualities if he's generally being townread and listened to but the amount of shade shovelled there early on has buried his mana pretty quick. Dann jumped in to defend after Auro had lost credibility.

I agree with the proportion of scum likely on that wagon.

[CheekyTeeky]

I'd be happy lynching FF, Dong, Hopkirk in that order. I don't know how my reads aren't vibing much with where everybody else is at. I think I'll give the thread some time to breathe for a while.

[CheekyTeeky]

Why would I suddenly be able to read people I'm not sure about just because there arent many of them?

Yeah that's not what I'm saying. I meant you should have some motivation to re-look at those players since you're close to a poe.

[CheekyTeeky]

I skimmed a couple of past scum FF ISOs and couldn't find this behaviour though. Can you recall him doing this before?

Yep.

[CheekyTeeky]

Please don't cut the most important part of my quote to mansplain how meta works again.

[CheekyTeeky]

Dann you've promised two town cases now on hop and Dunn. Should I stop holding my breath?

[CheekyTeeky]

I kind of liked Cheeky yesterday except for her asking me why I didn't find something suspicious that I'm not sure why I should find it suspicious

In 651 I wasn't saying you should have found my derp summary suspicious, I tried to say that your reaction/tone in response didn't sit right after all the work you had put into your catch up.

[CheekyTeeky]

Dong and Espe feel lynch baity to me.

[CheekyTeeky]

Gobbles how do your reads look atm?

[CheekyTeeky]

VOTE: BBmolla

[CheekyTeeky]

It's more a question of trust.

I have no trust in the other players in this game, so I feel a bit man against the world bc I don't feel comfortable bouncing ideas off anyone here so I'm trying to brute force. Look I'm happy to be proven wrong but at the moment.

Could you not also read the response to the idea you're bouncing to determine your level of "trust"

Seems like a really silly strategy tbh as you're shutting down opportunities for reads both ways.

[CheekyTeeky]

I have one member of my team still scumreading Auro so we're open to any cases there for consideration.

[CheekyTeeky]

I'm sorry if I'm displaying a severe lack of engagement to anyone's ideas. I'm pretty fixated on FF scum and need help seeing where I'm going wrong if that's the case before being able to see Auro scum (due to FFs hop onto the wagon.)

[CheekyTeeky]

I think Dann strong manning people off the Auro wagon by discrediting the reads was also an influence for me and why I would see those two as SvS should Auro flip scum at some stage.

[CheekyTeeky]

Do you see any credibility to the line that Dann is possibly white knighting Auro given the amount of focus that has been on both that wagon and counterwagons?

I could see that based on how strong Dann townread Auro early on. If Dann was WKing then I'd say that's to keep Auro for lynches down the line/possibly lylo rather than a pocketing attempt. I still think a chainsaw defense would be the bigger payoff for scum!Dann.

If Auro flipped town I wouldn't go straight after Dann though and think it's important to consider his play overall rather than associatives with a scumread. Dann has been pushing and probing in a townesque direction and his stances are understandable so I'm comfortable putting him in the town basket for today.

Auro could be doing a lot more.

[CheekyTeeky]

VOTE: BBmolla

Wow so brave

How do you feel okay making such awful votes

Are all my votes awful? Why?

[CheekyTeeky]

well this one is awful so I assume the rest are

I didn't look tbh

Why is it awful? Should I be hard town reading you now? I find your aggression to be a little over the top, it doesn't read as genuine to me.

Dong is scummy sure but what are your other reads?

[CheekyTeeky]

which aggression is over the top/ungenuine?

I'd rather do that than get to LYLO and have NSG not fucking posted all game because "sorry guys other games required attention."

As well as overly aggressive (why you mad bro) why can't we see if she posts tomorrow? It's not like we have to lynch her today for how she could possibly play in the future, that seems unfair right?

Like you could continue to be lurky but it wouldn't make sense for us to lynch you based on what you could do.

[CheekyTeeky]

Last bit might be harder to answer now that Cheeky's been here a bit which is unfortunate.

I thought 496 and 553 were talking about Joan of Arc? I replaced wgeurts.

Ninja'd

[CheekyTeeky]

Town can have their agency captured by scum without knowing it. You saying that town feeling a certain way about you makes you town is a bad logical argument to make

Oh, so now town has a false perspective because I lulled them and robbed them of their agency... versus Espeonage simply being incorrect.

Wait...what? That's not what FF is saying at all and you twisting it this way seems intentional in order to shade him. I don't know why town would do that; do you scumread him?

It's hard to buy your defense as a pro-town tactic when you depart from an argument of good faith.

[CheekyTeeky]

What do you think he was saying?

Yes that's a rehash but you effectively dodged his point that some people town reading you doesn't mean they're right. Expecting people to reassess you based on some people town reading you seems laughable? How often do you think 'oh wait people are town reading this person I must be wrong' - if you're anything like most players, you think you're right regardless of what other people think.

Your response in 835 looked designed to make FF seem stupid/scummy for suggesting you were committing the appeal to popularity logical fallacy; Which you were, so I feel like you're doubling down and discrediting where you should be giving some credit to the fact that your initial argument was illogical.

Do you scumread FF?

[CheekyTeeky]

Besides, I'm willing to admit I'm wrong - then just explain how my style was/is anti-town?

I don't even think anti-town==scummy.

I guess to tl;dr my beef. It was that you were being sarcastic in your response which looked like a misrep. This is against you purporting that your defense is actually pro-town and that you use your defense to sort people.

[CheekyTeeky]

FF can I get a reads list?

I'm scared that if I interact with you I'll change my mind but I'm pretty sure you're scum.

[CheekyTeeky]

1) lurkers are fucking poison to a mafia game

2) and if you think that's me being aggressive you haven't played with me enough

1) Agree but this lurker is a paragon. Again I won't lynch her for what may happen. She will be obvious scum tbh so I'm not concerned about a scum!nsg slipping through my fingers.

2) I was thinking the same thing when dann called me rude lol.

I guess if you had read a little bit more it wouldn't feel like you just latched onto the first explicitly scummy post you saw and then went 'Zomg obv scum.'

When I read through Dong's iso there are a lot of scummy posts, so much so that it seems too scummy to be scum. I think 'surely he would think before posting as scum.' So I'm not sure if he's a generally scummy player as town or if he's just scum here. I kind of need more from you on Dong so I know that your read is legit and you're not just surface level scum hunting as scum.

[CheekyTeeky]

Are you reading my posts CT? Ive been reaching out to you and you keep ignoring me. Are only talking on your terms?

Not really. We can talk now, I can't answer for my predecessor though. Yes a part of my read on you was your progression on my slot but that was a small part which you've explained away. In general it doesn't feel like you're solving so some reads would really help.

[CheekyTeeky]

T: Ceph, Hop

TL: Kitty, Espy, Gob

N: Dunn, NSG, Joan

SL: Auro, Wgeurt

S: Dann, Dong

I feel like there have been a lot of changes to these reads since i caught up and interacted with different people.

I feel like im more here now.

Is this still relevant? Why aren't you pushing your main scumreads?

[CheekyTeeky]

BB when you said my vote was terrible and were concerned NSG may get away as being scum day 2, both scenarios only really made sense if you knew we were town :/

Otherwise my vote wouldn't be terrible and NSG might be NK'd.

Also, scum sure would love a reason to policy lynch NSG amirite? My impression is that most people on the wagon seemed to be there to pressure NSG into giving content. You however seemed pretty determined to see a policy lynch through for sub-par reasons over your very confident scum read. It looks pretty bad tbh.

[CheekyTeeky]

How is it not a possibility to you? I think someone said earlier that by keeping her alive we force scum to choose to either kill her or leave her alive and kill another town leader.

I dunno just seemed like you knew you were policy lynching instead of lynching nsg because she's scum. I think I've confused myself.

VOTE: Formerfish

[CheekyTeeky]

Aw, maybe gobbles is scum

[CheekyTeeky]

Idk that post seemed genuine enough to not lynch him atm

I've phone posted this whole game so I find it hard to be sympathetic. I can't really be sure until he catches up.

[CheekyTeeky]

With 2 of that team's games in night, I would really like to know what is still so pressing that nsg needs to not play in this game.

Cephrir you may be right but can we lynch one of the other two scum today? Who do you think they are?

[CheekyTeeky]

I’m here! I fixed my computer. Cheeky why do you want Formerfish

Nice. Because his posts don't look like scum hunting, he spends a lot of time saying nothing and now he's avoiding interacting with me because he's mad or something.

Skim his iso and tell me what you think?

[CheekyTeeky]

I'm at the point now that if nsg is town and lynched I don't really care because today most people seem fixated on it and that is going to mess up how the game reads D1.

Ugh.

[CheekyTeeky]

Bear in mind we have 13 players, 3 scum so 6 to reach parity. That affords us 3 mislynches before lylo. If you all want to use one to lynch a no info lurker that's on you, obviously optimal play is to lynch scum today or at least someone scumread who's interacted to set us up nicely for the rest of the game.

[CheekyTeeky]

Dunnstral can you help me see town FF? Why are you townreading him?

[CheekyTeeky]

Town
KittyMo
Auro
Dann
Dunn
Cephrir
Hopkirk
Espeonage
Joan of Arc
DongEmpire
Formerfish
Wgeurts
NSG
Scum

Gobbles are you sure you don't need to update this?

[CheekyTeeky]

Cheeky talk to me about Dong and Dann.

I think Dong is scummy and I'd vote there, my main concern is that they could be lynchbait but I keep putting off meta-diving them as I'm not great at meta-diving so I guess I was hoping that their alignment would become more obvious as the day went on. I'm fine saying this is scum.

Dann's vote trajectories have been interesting he did a lot of vote hopping and evaluating early on in a way that did not feel opportunistic. My team are split on whether Dann is scum or not, and I think his reputation as a scum player makes it difficult to really trust a strong town read there. A part of me dislikes the amount of LAMIST content here with the promising of cases and a goat readslist, while the other part just want's to occam's razor this as town.
I'm fine putting him in my town reads.

[CheekyTeeky]

Liking Dong’s reaction to pressure less and less as I skim his iso

I had the opposite reaction. I actually feel better about Dong after reading their posts.

[CheekyTeeky]

Hi!
VOTE: wgeurts
Wagons

I hate this entrance. Everytime I read Auro's ISO I gut scumread this entrance then find myself townreading him after all the words.

I think it reminds me too much of one of my past scum games. The word wagons is so unnecessary, like who feels the need to explain their rvs vote is forming a wagon?
The smiley is slimey too almost like they're trying to blunt the vote they're supposedly using to pressure coz *wagons*
It pings me because I read two things into it 1) they want town to know they're helping 2) they don't actually want confrontation for their vote.

Even as I write this I feel like I'm overthinking it but I just can't shake the gut repulsion instinct.

[CheekyTeeky]

I actually think I can see a town pov in their posts.

Dong could you please give a general idea of your reads atm?

[CheekyTeeky]

I think Espeon is the best info lynch today with some scum equity based on the two groups I'm starting to see around Auro and nsg.

[CheekyTeeky]

I think Espeon is the best info lynch today with some scum equity based on the two groups I'm starting to see around Auro and nsg.

What information would it exactly give you on a green flip if we agreed to "info lynch" him?

I feel this is best left unanswered because I don't want to set up mislynches until I've got enough information (D2). The key is the Auro wagon and people's reactions to it. It would be easy enough for everyone to gather people's reads on Espy and Auro to see if they're valid and poe from there.

I would prefer an FF lynch over this compromise. If I made the effort to case him would anyone care?

[CheekyTeeky]

Sigh alright. I've had bad experiences from casing in the past but I'll do it. It may take some time.

[CheekyTeeky]

Lol Auro

[CheekyTeeky]

Unless she is saying I dont read the same from my town game there to my town game here

Yes I've said that

[CheekyTeeky]

Its becoming increasingly distressing that I’m arriving to different conclusions than you

Don't be distressed I often go full circle on reads.

What conclusions are you concerned about?

[CheekyTeeky]

I skimmed a couple of past scum FF ISOs and couldn't find this behaviour though. Can you recall him doing this before?

Yep.

Cheeky, did you mean to link another game then? I can already feel how it's different from his towngames based on past experiences, but that wasn't I was looking for.

Oh I misunderstood what you were asking. No I don't have a scumgame that looks like what he's doing here.

[CheekyTeeky]

Unless she is saying I dont read the same from my town game there to my town game here

Yes I've said that

This is a really weak line.

What's weak is FF's scummy pop-ins and his refusal to elaborate on his reads.

[CheekyTeeky]

I think a "this doesn't resemble his town game from x game" is super weak.

Having qualms with his posting is fine.

I don't think it is when combined with his play here not resembling a town game in general. The main comparisons from that game are that he has the ability to scumhunt aggressively and he's not one to take a backseat. Which is where exactly this game?

Anyway my case is focused on this game so you can hold onto your panties for a bit before calling my read of him weak.

[CheekyTeeky]

T: Ceph, Hop

TL: Kitty, Espy, Gob

N: Dunn, NSG, Joan

SL: Auro, Wgeurt

S: Dann, Dong

I feel like there have been a lot of changes to these reads since i caught up and interacted with different people.

I feel like im more here now.

Is this still relevant? Why aren't you pushing your main scumreads?

Did you read my iso of me reading your iso? ISO. misrepping is what you're doing right now, your poppins are scummy because you're actively lurking for your last two posts. I don't mind you being active or disagreeing with me.

I have skimmed your iso. I'm not buying what you're selling so I don't get how reading your iso is going to answer all my questions and suddenly townread how weird you're being.

[CheekyTeeky]

You're not aggressive here at all though. So why is Dann scum? What's your read on me?

[CheekyTeeky]

Just give a read on me then you derphead. I mean several posts have happened since your reads list, do you not care to update where you stood? You're being needlessly difficult for no reason.

[CheekyTeeky]

Does this look like TvT to anyone?

[CheekyTeeky]

Spoiler:

[CheekyTeeky]

Case still in progress, in the meantime this is where I'm at:

{Hopkirk, Kittymo, Dannflor, Dunnstral, BBmolla}
{Auro, Cephrir, Gobbles}
{northsidegal}
{}
{Espeonage, Formerfish, Dongempire}

After going through FF's ISO in depth I've changed my reads on Hop, Espeonage and Dong (again). If I was wrong on either Espeonage or FF I'd relook below my top tier town line. If I'm wrong on Dong I'd relook at BB.

[CheekyTeeky]

We should probably start consolidating seeing as we have two days left.

[CheekyTeeky]

Dunn your wisdom blinds you.

[CheekyTeeky]

FF has been tiptoeing around what could be deemed the strong town players Dunn, Dann, Kitty and town reading the not so towny people. When he decided to attack Dann he was constantly throwing shade and acting like he was reassessing but he wasn't, he left dann in his scum reads after saying he felt better. His jump on the Auro wagon was opportunistic, ceasing on the game trajectory that was running in his favour. These are the main points I'll be elaborating on.

FF is interacting with Dunn in a way that feels like he's trying to stay under the radar. It's what and who he's picking and choosing to respond to. You're not giving his town game enough credit if you think this is it.

[CheekyTeeky]

Seizing*

[CheekyTeeky]

Ugh chainsaw my wagon why don't ya.

[CheekyTeeky]

What are you scared she's going to fool you as scum tomorrow?

[CheekyTeeky]

FF/Dunn/BB?

Your progression on NSG is terrible Dunn. It looks like you couldn't convince enough people via proxy of BB on lynching Dong and now you're running up the other wagon to save FF.

[CheekyTeeky]

It's not something I can explain immediately and should become apparent when I finally finish my case.

Yes go ahead and discredit me. Outted scum.

[CheekyTeeky]

Why just in the past hour? Odd timing since we were finally coming together to lynch scum.

[CheekyTeeky]

That's a pretty severe o overreaction to what looks like a valid question. We can't see a case you haven't posted yet.

I'm mad because Dunn infuriates me in general and it's taken a long time against some resistance to finally get the game going in the right direction. He is not interested in what I have to say he's just looking for holes to dismantle what I've worked towards.

[CheekyTeeky]

If this isn't a chainsaw defense I don't know what is. Anyway I'll step back before I give him more ammo to shot me with.

[CheekyTeeky]

Stop being dumb.

[CheekyTeeky]

You could start with sorting the votes that came onto your wagon like a town person about to be lynched would do.

[CheekyTeeky]

Whatever I give up. For anyone that looks over this tomorrow, the transition started after my readslist at the end of my ISO.

[CheekyTeeky]

You barely fucking talk to me any game and always seem to think what I'm doing is stupid.

[CheekyTeeky]

No case is coming I give up live and be town.

[CheekyTeeky]

I just can't believe that you would town read him that strongly that you would divert the lynch onto a no info lurker. Even if you town read him, is he not a good lynch? There have been enough stances on him and now even more so that I think it's a key piece to the puzzle you're not willing to pick up.

The scum reads on FF haven't come from nowhere people have been scumreading him at various points in the game and as we were approaching day end enough people were fine to lynch him because he's not exactly as obv town as you make him out to be. We'll never know now what all the pieces meant because you decided to the move the wagon. I really hope you're scum moving this wagon otherwise wtf dude.

Anyway at least I feel better that you're not all going to lynch the NSG slot anymore because I like having scum forced to decide whether to kill her or another prominent townie.

[CheekyTeeky]

Tbh even though I'm really mad at Dunn I think Dann looks worse.

[CheekyTeeky]

I'll process things and post soon.

Good luck with that.

[CheekyTeeky]

I've just started loving this game again.

[CheekyTeeky]

Because FF is scum probably. I'm really uncomfortable with how badly Cephrir wants to lynch NSG.

[CheekyTeeky]

I mean he's willing to lynch someone if he's persuaded but as soon as NSG appears he gets a hard on for killing her again. He wanted her to post right? Now he's too offended to hear her out. I don't understand the rush with killing her I'd rather you all lynch Turkey.

[CheekyTeeky]

For once I agree with you RE: team read descepancies.

[CheekyTeeky]

Fair.

[CheekyTeeky]

I'm not sure if this was pointed out earlier but if FF flips town after her hop on then isn't it scum suicide?

[CheekyTeeky]

Lol you missed Dunn highjacking the party and finding nsg passed out in the closet.

[CheekyTeeky]

And she'd want to take out FF instead of Gobbles? I'm with Auro on the confused part.

[CheekyTeeky]

I don't think she'd say that if FF was the only counter-wagon to hers. If she is scum and like you say, not playing until end game, what's the biggest pay-off here? An NSG scumflip would probably make FF look a whole lot better after her vote there, plus she has the master of bussing on her team. Either way you cut the cake on her alignment scum!FF still makes sense.

[CheekyTeeky]

Literally my one piece of advice for if I'm not here tomorrow is that the warthog should not be killed by town this game.

Roger that.

[CheekyTeeky]

I haven't even remotely caught up and won't until tomorrow evening at the earliest.

VOTE: Dunn

We do not have enough time for this vanity wagon and you’re probably wrong anyway.

Please vote Fish, NSG, Dong, or Esp. We have one day to make this happen.

There's no wagon on Dong or Esp?

[CheekyTeeky]

Dunn/Gobble doesn't work imo.

[CheekyTeeky]

Ugh fine. Effing AtE.
VOTE: Gobbles

[CheekyTeeky]

Do something useful FF.

[CheekyTeeky]

AtE is like my kryptonite. I can't deal.

What's the VC on him?

[CheekyTeeky]

Alright I'm fine with an FF lynch I'll be here until deadline.

[CheekyTeeky]

UNVOTE:

[CheekyTeeky]

Intent to hammer by deadline or if everyone has said what they want to say.

[CheekyTeeky]

This is a mistake - NSG is scumclaiming right now

I thought you wanted gobbles?

[CheekyTeeky]

and rc wanted me to say that dunn's reads are basically the same as his

okay he's bothering me to say that he specifically means on gobbles

VOTE: formerfish

i think this is the only current wagon likely to hit scum.

There's about 800 posts between these so I'm not 100% sold that NSG is scum because she changed her mind on an early game read from her team.

I do agree that the lack of explanation is annoying but it remains to be seen whether or not she can back this up tomorrow. If not then I'd agree with lynching her D2.

[CheekyTeeky]

I'm tempted to CFD Dunn.

[CheekyTeeky]

FF do you still think Dann is scum?

[CheekyTeeky]

Thoughts on lynching Dunn?

[CheekyTeeky]

Sigh. If you had just stopped being stubborn and worked with me as town I think it's unlikely things would have ended up this way.

It's pretty interesting that the game had stagnated around the Auro wagon and then everybody perked up towards day end.

[CheekyTeeky]

FF you scumread wgeurts for going MIA and on my entrance you said I had a hole to climb out of. What kind of read is that even? Since when is disappearing AI?

[CheekyTeeky]

Lol Dann stop you're making it worse not better.

[CheekyTeeky]

Woosaaaaa.

Hopkirk what are you doing?

[CheekyTeeky]

What?

[CheekyTeeky]

You should at least talk to Auro even if you're mad at me.

[CheekyTeeky]

People who want to talk to me: come with a specific topic.[/quote

FF you scumread wgeurts for going MIA and on my entrance you said I had a hole to climb out of. What kind of read is that even? Since when is disappearing AI?

Your read on my slot didn't make sense.

[CheekyTeeky]

Then you replaced in and immediately pushed me.

Why didn't you push back or try to sort me?

[CheekyTeeky]

Ok. So I'm not so sure you're scum anymore FF. My problem is that if I hammer NSG and she flips town then I get shot to set you up and you're the main distraction D2 (assuming town). I don't know how to fix the inevitable chase of you from this point if you're not lynched today. Best bet is to CFD scum. I like Auro a whole lot more and I don't see Dann getting the votes, Dong is our most likely option. Thoughts?

[CheekyTeeky]

I guess there's gobbles too but I wanted to lynch him later.

[CheekyTeeky]

Same thing happens to NSG if we lynch FF and he's town though

Well no because NSG is yet to effort whereas FF has already got enough content that people were happy to scumread him off, myself included.

[CheekyTeeky]

Yep. Kinda don't feel great about your read change on the slot though seeing as you townread yume off of nothing.

What's wrong with Dong?

[CheekyTeeky]

So many jokes I wish this wasn't a TM game ^.^

[CheekyTeeky]

Dong/Dunnstral seems to be a thing.

Ok welp I'll still hammer FF because I'm not lynching NSG, sorry if I'm wrong.

[CheekyTeeky]

Cheeky, I'm beginning to think NSG is a fine lynch at this point. I've sortaaaa lost heart in an FF lynch. Idk.

Yeah I've lost heart that FF is scum but it's the best thing going forward into the next few days.

[CheekyTeeky]

Sorry BB.

VOTE: BBmolla

[CheekyTeeky]

Wow. This game went down the drain quickly.
Guess I came back too late.
Glgl.

[CheekyTeeky]

Dann you were happy lynching anyone.
Dunn why didn't you hop on BB?

[CheekyTeeky]

Dong needs to be killed with fire if NSG flips town.

[CheekyTeeky]

MathDino said that? You must be scum BB.

[CheekyTeeky]

If it's MathBlade you can be town lol.

[CheekyTeeky]

Dong needs to be killed with fire if NSG flips town.

Because?

Because you're scum unless she is scum. I read you as scum independently of NSG but I link the two thinking if you were SvS then you wouldn't have hammered in the indecisive game state.

So you're scum unless NSG is scum.

[CheekyTeeky]

Vote Count

Auro - 4

(Cephrir, Hopkirk, Espeonage, Formerfish)

Dongempire - 2

(gobbledygook, Dannflor)

Cephrir - 1

(Dongempire)

gobbledygook - 1

(Joan of Arc)

KittyMo - 1

(CheekyTeeky)

wguerts - 1

(northsidegal)

Dunnstral - 1

(Kittymo)

Not Voting - 2

(Auro, Dunnstral)

Activity Check - Replacing Joan of Arc, prodding goobledygook

Deadline: (expired on 2020-01-16 22:59:30)

Vote Count

northsidegal - 3

(Cephrir, Dannflor, Hopkirk)

Auro - 2

(Espeonage, Formerfish)

Dongempire - 2

(gobbledygook, BBMolla)

Cephrir - 1

(Dongempire)

wguerts - 1

(northsidegal)

Dunnstral - 1

(Kittymo)

Formerfish - 1

(CheekyTeeky)

Not Voting - 2

(Auro, Dunnstral)

Activity Check - All Good!

Deadline: (expired on 2020-01-17 22:59:30)

Vote Count

northsidegal - 5

(Kittymo, Cephrir, Dunnstral, Formerfish, gobbledygook)

Formerfish - 4

(BBMolla, northsidegal, Dannflor, Espeonage)

gobbledygook - 1

(Hopkirk)

Not Voting - 3

(Auro, CheekyTeeky, Dongempire)

Activity Check - All Good!

Deadline: (expired on 2020-01-17 22:59:30)

Hopkirk what's up with you sitting on NSG all day then jumping off onto gobble? What made you change your mind on Auro and NSG?

[CheekyTeeky]

Unexplained vote on me after saying he didn't read (so why did he vote me?) then he calls me scum with Gobble and Fish, then he votes Gobble

I don't know why he vanity voted you over Fish as his only viable scumread lynch. It's just ???

[CheekyTeeky]

I'm definitely going to be the Night Kill, was fun playing with y'all!

[CheekyTeeky]

End of day wagon movements started around post 951 for reference D2.

[CheekyTeeky]

It's interesting if you ctrl+f hopkirk in everybody's ISOs.
If I make it there's an idea to narrow down teams using ctrl+f.

For one Dann and Hopkirk are not SvS.

[CheekyTeeky]

I have asked Menalque to answer this.
I think Cheeky was trying to do anything but vote NSG yesterday. In a game like white flag which heavily disincentivizes bussing, I am looking at those types of plays the most

Are you serious? How about you look at people who were able to hammer FF or BB and didn't then clear out from there. This is disappointing from you.

[CheekyTeeky]

Kittymo was a good NK for me because I was starting to have doubts about the early wagoners on NSG. As I see it scum can communicate right so I think at some point they knew NSG needed to be bussed, I'm not sure if that was after the initial votes on NSG or late votes that switched from the FF wagon.

Two points of interest are the FF vote from NSG and he post responding to Dann out of all the wagoners. I'm not sure what that means yet.

[CheekyTeeky]

I think people pushing Dunn is towny but I'm not ready to look into that slot yet. Today is a public holiday for me so I'll be V/LAish for about 12 hours. I'll still post when I can.

Cephrir I think you're town. I'll do a more in-depth post soon. I think I was at Hopkirk/Dong with a side serving of Dunn.

[CheekyTeeky]

Dunn only makes sense if FF is also scum tbh. But that's my most tinfoil read, I'd go with the other scumspects today.

[CheekyTeeky]

Espeon I think Dann should be lower in the scumpile based on nsg interactions for now.

VOTE: Hopkirk

[CheekyTeeky]

To expand slightly

Because we already discussed scum turbobus strats for white flag in this game I really dont think scum would look to turbobus in this game, at least until maybe late game when theres only 2 of them

1 scum wins the game

What? It literally doesn't

VOTE: Cephrir

You either didnt read your role pm or you're scum. This is such a stupid post to make

Just saw this
This can't be legit? Mind boggling town slip if it is one.

[CheekyTeeky]

Nah no way that's a legit thought process dong has.

[CheekyTeeky]

You guys both think that mafia lose when there is 1 left, you're just saying it in different ways

Ooooh.

[CheekyTeeky]

Yeah it'd be great if you could clear up your EOD actions hop. My main issue is you voting gobble when you said FF & Dunn were scum yet FF was the most likely to be lynched.

If you could go into your reads on those 3 slots at the point of your gobble vote that would help a lot.

I'm not really buying the "I thought I had time to skittle" thing as you didn't really do or say anything when you came back and said "I'm not catching up then" after the NSG hammer. I had given intent on FF and it was pretty clear the end was coming quick. So I think you were well aware you didn't have time to skittle and your obvious vote should have been FF if you really scumread him or were town going for an info lynch. Instead it looked like you were unsure what to do and so you threw out reads and stayed off the main wagons.

[CheekyTeeky]

also I think Espeonage's misrepresentation of my stances is scummy and a desperate attempt to take advantage of the paranoia around me.

I don't think he sounds desperate. His progressions make sense I just think he's wrong.

[CheekyTeeky]

Why Dong over Hop today?

[CheekyTeeky]

I agree that Dong is scummy but that hammer makes me hesitant. Hopkirk needs to explain his thought process more, I'm not sure that what he's said today has made him any less scummy from my pov.

[CheekyTeeky]

FF do something with your life before I start tunnelling you again.

[CheekyTeeky]

Auro should never be lynched.

[CheekyTeeky]

Dunn I'll vote Dong but I'll BoP you on it. I'm slightly concerned most of us are reaching the same conclusions. It's like we've been infiltrated >.>

[CheekyTeeky]

Sigh. Alright so I guess we lynch Espeon.

[CheekyTeeky]

I don't have access to our discord on this device but I'll hit up pops when I get a chance.

[CheekyTeeky]

VOTE: Espeonage

[CheekyTeeky]

VOTE: Espeonage

Bruuuuuuuuuuuuh

Eddie Cane.

[CheekyTeeky]

Dunn if I'm scum why didn't I hammer FF over my teammate after tunnelling him all day?

[CheekyTeeky]

Like in what world do my actions make sense as scum here.

Pedit yes. When FF was finally talking with people he was at L-1. Are you actually reading the game? I feel like if you were solving you would've looked into that.

[CheekyTeeky]

Spoiler: Me being an obvnotscum person.

Intent to hammer by deadline or if everyone has said what they want to say.

Woosaaaaa.

Hopkirk what are you doing?

You should at least talk to Auro even if you're mad at me.

Then you replaced in and immediately pushed me.

Why didn't you push back or try to sort me?

Ok. So I'm not so sure you're scum anymore FF. My problem is that if I hammer NSG and she flips town then I get shot to set you up and you're the main distraction D2 (assuming town). I don't know how to fix the inevitable chase of you from this point if you're not lynched today. Best bet is to CFD scum. I like Auro a whole lot more and I don't see Dann getting the votes, Dong is our most likely option. Thoughts?

Cheeky, I'm beginning to think NSG is a fine lynch at this point. I've sortaaaa lost heart in an FF lynch. Idk.

Yeah I've lost heart that FF is scum but it's the best thing going forward into the next few days.

Sorry BB.

VOTE: BBmolla

[CheekyTeeky]

Alright I'm fine with an FF lynch I'll be here until deadline.

UNVOTE:

Vote Count

northsidegal - 5

(Kittymo, Cephrir, Dunnstral, Formerfish, gobbledygook)

Formerfish - 4

(BBMolla, northsidegal, Dannflor, Espeonage)

gobbledygook - 1

(Hopkirk)

Not Voting - 3

(Auro, CheekyTeeky, Dongempire)

Activity Check - All Good!

Deadline: (expired on 2020-01-17 22:59:30)

These are for context of my obvtown posts. After this post two more people jumped on FF, Dong and someone I can't remember after which I gave intent.

[CheekyTeeky]

Dong has been trying to lynch me from when I entered unfortunately they picked the wrong LHF.

[CheekyTeeky]

Dong has been trying to lynch me from when I entered unfortunately they picked the wrong LHF.

Lol

Lynch me?

Nah I like the attention from you. When I'm not being scumread is more of a worry.

[CheekyTeeky]

Dong has been trying to lynch me from when I entered unfortunately they picked the wrong LHF.

Lol

Lynch me?

Nah I like the attention from you. When I'm not being scumread is more of a worry.

Did you know that scum take less kindly to being universally townread than town do? Thats because they are afraid of being scumread for valid reasons at some point and not being able to control the narrative once the dominos start falling apart.

:shrug: no idea what you're trying to say.

[CheekyTeeky]

IM A FEMALE THAT HAS CREATED HUMANS. So like, -she- works fine.

[CheekyTeeky]

Like in what world do my actions make sense as scum here.

Pedit yes. When FF was finally talking with people he was at L-1. Are you actually reading the game? I feel like if you were solving you would've looked into that.

Why would I have looked into that?

??

Looking at why FF wasn't hammered and by whom is a pretty good way to find lock-town. Looking at the transition onto BB and who didn't hammer there is also a good place from which to ask questions.

Unrelated but important: If Eddie didn't insist on Espeon I probably wouldn't even vote him today based on his interactions with NSG.

I feel like you're not really looking at the whole picture or considering stuff that I think is pretty effing relevant but I'm not sure if that's just your own way of solving or because you're scum. I'll trust Eddie's take on you, for now. Honestly though, you're probably the person who gets the most towncred for the nsg wagon and you're playing like you know it. (Cephrir I know it was actually your wagon)

[CheekyTeeky]

I'm still trusting my team/other people about Cheeky but yikes

What is Yikes? Who is saying I'm town on your team and why?

[CheekyTeeky]

Don't be scummy now I don't want to face the uphill climb of trying to get you lynched.

[CheekyTeeky]

Interesting point on Dong - they've been generally scumread/in the bottom row of people's reads and yet they have not had a serious wagon on them all game.

2 reasons I see for this:
1 - Dong is heavily scumread town being saved for late game by scum.
2 - Dong is scum who is good at being town and avoiding wagons.

Tell me which seems to be the more likely scenario.

[CheekyTeeky]

Don't be scummy now I don't want to face the uphill climb of trying to get you lynched.

We should just flashwagon Esp today.

Yeah. That townread on me from Maria is a scumclaim though.

[CheekyTeeky]

Again, there are way more town alive than scum, so this doesn't mean anything

Sure it does, it means there is scum in the town leaders. In case you haven't noticed you and Dann have more sway than most this game. But you know this hence you thought one of you two would be NK'd

[CheekyTeeky]

Yeah. That townread on me from Maria is a scumclaim though

Oooh can you explain?

Sure, Maria never reads me or my alts correctly, skimming EOD she would have said I was scum. At best she might have thought I was kind of town but not enough for Dunn to make the argument that he thinks I'm scum but his team's opinions are holding him back.

In fact if we go into this deeper, each time Dunn has mentioned his teams thoughts they haven't really added up although tbf theres only one other comment he's made that I can recall, aside from the strange timing of his team yelling at him to lynch nsg:

No they haven't. Somebody thinks cheeky is obv town, they think ff is being put up as a coutner wagon

ff is being put up as a coutner wagon

by who? me and cheeky were the main pushers of it

You asked me what my team thought. That's all they said

So this and the town read on me look like ways to maneuver in the game whilst relinquishing accountability.

[CheekyTeeky]

Cheeky, Dunn is correct that your implied conclusion (Dunn is scum) is faulty given the premise that Dong is scum or being saved for later, given Dunn's pushing Dong.

Dunn, Cheeky might have a legitimate point wrt Maria townreading her being a scumtell - let her explain it, right? No need for attacks.

I don't think it's faulty because I'm not implying Dunn/Dong SvS in the wagonless Dong observation. Yes he's voting them now but I don't see a real lynch Dong trajectory going on right now.

[CheekyTeeky]

Nope not really. You can discredit my arguments all you like but they speak for themselves. I am for the people.

Btw MariaR is Maki right?

[CheekyTeeky]

here
here
here
here

These are literally all the games I've played with Maria as Cheeky and you can't tell me she'd ever strongly townread me correctly.

[CheekyTeeky]

UNVOTE:
Ugh

What're you thinking?

[CheekyTeeky]

here
here
here
here

These are literally all the games I've played with Maria as Cheeky and you can't tell me she'd ever strongly townread me correctly.

null in 1st game, wrong in the 2nd game, lock town in the last one

I was scum in the last game and Maria said that she'd throw all meta out the window if she was wrong. (That game is also why I'm inclined to listen to Eddie)

My point is you're full of it and falling back on your team to falsely prop up your weird pushes and shade casting.

Why would town lie?

[CheekyTeeky]

No I'm obviously town when you know my alignment

Anyway that was the scenic route thanks to Auro, I'm still going to follow Eddie's reads today as I think your alignment will become more obvious as the game plays on.

[CheekyTeeky]

I haven't seen Eddie get pocketed so hard by scum that they threw the game.

[CheekyTeeky]

Sorry that was bitchy but in response to this.

You barely fucking talk to me any game and always seem to think what I'm doing is stupid.

This makes sense to me now

[CheekyTeeky]

I like you fine I just get annoyed at you not listening when you're town. Anyway can we stop the 1v1 I feel like this isn't productive if we're heading in the same direction today.