Sunny 2: Rules of Im-peachment - Over!

[staypositivefriend]

vote: staypositivefriend

[staypositivefriend]

I hope we can all handle this little disagreement peacefully. Anyone want a peach?

Hmm, I want to townread you for saying this.

what do you find towny about that?

[staypositivefriend]

VOTE: SPF

welcome to Mafiascum ٩(◕‿◕)۶

thanks! i think i played half a game w/you on epicmafia that i ended up replacing out of

i'm excited to be here but i also tend to flood the thread a

lot

on my homesite, so i'm taking a more restrained approach and going w/the flow

[staypositivefriend]

were you the one I was going to dayvig until koba talked me out of it :3

yeah prolly, i remember you hardtunneling me early on

[staypositivefriend]

btw there's one person in this game that i townread so far. does anyone wanna guess who it is?

[staypositivefriend]

were you the one I was going to dayvig until koba talked me out of it :3

yeah prolly, i remember you hardtunneling me early on

I do that a lot

should I do that here?

are you a baddie?

you don't have to lie to me we r all friends here.

i

am

a baddie, and nobody is ever going to believe u

[staypositivefriend]

i am a baddie, and nobody is ever going to believe u

there are rules here young lady

you can't just confess on page 2....

the only thing i believe in is anarchy

[staypositivefriend]

btw there's one person in this game that i townread so far. does anyone wanna guess who it is?

I'm not sure, but I'd be interested in knowing who.

their name rhymes with "HidMay Wear"

[staypositivefriend]

Your last post is somewhat towny though.

Why do you think that?

Votes on Cheetory right now seem forced

forced from who, specifically? that's some pretty broad shade to throw if you're not gonna name names

[staypositivefriend]

Maria's entrance is unique from what I've seen before, but her vote is neutral.
It was more of Cakez voting Cheetory that seemed a bit unnatural. Cakez's vote seems like a bandwagon vote, and I don't know if his explanation (fifth fortnight) is genuine. This seems like a stretch theory now that I posted

alright, wanna vote a mafia with me?

VOTE: Jake The Wolfie

[staypositivefriend]

I haven't read anything I just legit am not gonna let Cheet roll over me again

Interesting coincidence then...

alright, wanna vote a mafia with me?

VOTE: Jake The Wolfie

I don't really have a read on him because this behavior is mostly NAI for him. What pinged you?

his opening posts felt aimless/uncomfortable to me - posts like #65 felt like jake was more concerned w/positioning himself as someone who fit in with the thread than he was with approaching the game from a solving mindset. i was mostly interested in seeing if i could concentrate a bunch of momentum around him

[staypositivefriend]

vote: staypositivefriend

I hope we can all handle this little disagreement peacefully. Anyone want a peach?

Hmm, I want to townread you for saying this.

what do you find towny about that?

VOTE: SPF

welcome to Mafiascum ٩(◕‿◕)۶

thanks! i think i played half a game w/you on epicmafia that i ended up replacing out of

i'm excited to be here but i also tend to flood the thread a

lot

on my homesite, so i'm taking a more restrained approach and going w/the flow

VOTE: staypositivefriend
Serious vote
I feel irked by these posts

Really? I don't see much wrong with them.

it's kinda gut but they just read scum-awkward
like the self-vote to open is a typical scum move
the question feels kinda forced
and the third post reads pre-apologetic, like they are expecting to be scumread

i'll let you ride that read out, but ftr, self-voting in games is not alignment indicative for me. i like doing it to open up games because it provokes more interesting reactions and conversation than if i was to aimlessly vote someone

[staypositivefriend]

Anyway Louise, what are your thoughts about the wagon of 3 on me?

what are

your

thoughts? do you think anyone is pushing on you opportunistically?

[staypositivefriend]

Anyway Louise, what are your thoughts about the wagon of 3 on me?

what are

your

thoughts? do you think anyone is pushing on you opportunistically?

I am a vote magnet. If I become the wagon, I am almost certainly the execute, unless external factors somehow confirm me.

well if that's true, it should help give you more insight into who would be pushing on you opportunistically, right? have you gotten pinged by anyone specific who's voting you?

[staypositivefriend]

Maria's entrance is unique from what I've seen before, but her vote is neutral.
It was more of Cakez voting Cheetory that seemed a bit unnatural. Cakez's vote seems like a bandwagon vote, and I don't know if his explanation (fifth fortnight) is genuine. This seems like a stretch theory now that I posted

alright, wanna vote a mafia with me?

VOTE: Jake The Wolfie

Looking back on this vote, it's kinda trashy.
There isn't much followup after this vote, either.

VOTE: staypositivefriend

if me explaining my vote on you on #103 and then questioning you on #119-onward doesn't qualify as "

followup

", i don't think anything could

[staypositivefriend]

tell me more

[staypositivefriend]

Why wouldn't you push someone because you wanted to hear more from them, instead of "Well I wanted to feel special in making a wagon!!!"

if i'm able to concentrate the momentum of the game onto a specific player early on, then it tells me a

lot

about both the dynamics of the game and the alignment of the player i'm pushing on.

putting early pressure on a player like you

forces

you to engage w/the game in a way that wouldn't otherwise happen organically. the fact that we're discussing this right now is confirmation to me that it was a good idea

[staypositivefriend]

if i'm able to concentrate the momentum of the game onto a specific player early on, then it tells me a lot about both the dynamics of the game and the alignment of the player i'm pushing on.

Or it tells you how many people baa like a sheep.

that seems like pretty valuable information to have, if you ask me.

[staypositivefriend]

if i'm able to concentrate the momentum of the game onto a specific player early on, then it tells me a lot about both the dynamics of the game and the alignment of the player i'm pushing on.

Or it tells you how many people baa like a sheep.

that seems like pretty valuable information to have, if you ask me.

Why?

understanding the playstyle of the people i'm playing with in a game where i don't know a single person is pretty valuable to me. if my push on you gives me

no

information other than gaining insight into how people play, i would still consider it a good thing

[staypositivefriend]

putting early pressure on a player like you forces you to engage w/the game in a way that wouldn't otherwise happen organically. the fact that we're discussing this right now is confirmation to me that it was a good idea

Question: How does pressuring a LHF help you sort them?

this seems self-explanatory - it helps me sort

you

, and sorting you helps me sort the rest of the game by extension. it's silly to suggest that i should read through the meta of 17 different players to figure their dynamics out when i could accomplish the same thing by playing this game.

i don't see this exchange being constructive past this point, so i'm withdrawing from it for now

[staypositivefriend]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

felt cute, might delete later

[staypositivefriend]

pedantic is like
"oh man technically you're wrong because of this small thing that doesn't matter"

but yeah I'm a little scrazzled right now.
mafia does my brain weird.
I need to go to bed and I'm scared I'm going to total my weekend on this game by overthinking it.
):

i think the emotion in this post is authentic, and it's prolly emotion that's more likely to come from a town mindset than a scum one

[staypositivefriend]

Finally, if you're an anime fan and not watching Wonder Egg Priority this season, what are you doing with life?

never voting zaiden in this game, ive been evangelizing this show to all my anime watching friends

[staypositivefriend]

Perhaps I will after I get more confidence.

pedit : i personally like monty's pythons, can we let him vibe for one day?

Yeah, I'm down.

Vote: Noraa

Might just be my unfamiliarity with Noraa, but I'm having trouble figuring out where she's coming from with her posts this far.

Also not overly liking Spring Breeze, but that's fine.

Cheeto is good.

Pedit: Cheeto may not be good oh no. Hm.

this post has already gotten a lot of heat, but this specific line is that one that bothers me the most. it distinctly feels like they

don't want

to out a read on spring breeze, but that they still feel obligated to do so. the wording of throwing shade on spring breeze while simultaneously invalidating their own read strikes me as really uncomfortable

i also don't really like the vote on noraa but that's slightly more NAI - i just think that noraa is rand!town so far because of her level of comfort and lack of care for how she's being perceived, and the reasoning that private gives to vote her feels flimsy at best

[staypositivefriend]

A lot of Zaidens posts feel like they're trying to project their town game and talk about things they do as town to try and replicate that same energy than just being town. Look at 225 for a good example.

There. 1 flaw. Happy?

zaiden's reasoning for townreading me felt very flimsy. the rest of 225 looks fine to me

[staypositivefriend]

VOTE: cheetory6

what's pinging you?

this particular string. posts read like they were trying to overplay their transparency

Spoiler:

I think the nice big preprepped post is a common one for scum to ease their way into the game.
Or at least I've done it more than once as mafia and assume others have had the inclination as well.

the point. a-ok!

I think if gamma was dropping that and content then it would be less pingy, idk.
It makes sense in my head!!!!!

Like I'm being imprecise but the meaning should be clear and I think you're being pedantic!
God!

pedantic is like
"oh man technically you're wrong because of this small thing that doesn't matter"

but yeah I'm a little scrazzled right now.
mafia does my brain weird.
I need to go to bed and I'm scared I'm going to total my weekend on this game by overthinking it.
):

okay like the details of
"did they prep it before the game started" or "did they do it as an attempt to NAI crutch into the game" don't matter if the point is that the post is a crutch regardless of the circumstances that led to it and I feel like you should know that and are trying to make something out of nothing. >:c

rest is scumpings

was trying to see if anyone would feel that way, but no one did!

i got the opposite impression from this exchange - it stood out to me that above all else, cheetory's primary concern was making sure that his reasoning was properly understood. i feel like people playing from a scum mindset are more likely to capitulate to people criticizing their reasoning, but cheetory's main reaction was just to get genuinely

frustrated

that their reasoning was being misinterperted and misframed.

this type of emotional concern over the particulars of their reasoning is town!indicative, imo. gth i don't think that scum has that level of emotional investment into having their specific reasoning validated

[staypositivefriend]

VOTE: PrivateI

[staypositivefriend]

noraa has come off as really cagey about people fos'ing her/throwing shade on her in this game, and i think that meshes well with the fact that she's still giving genuine consideration to whether or not private's vote on her is scum motivated

i think noraa!scum would be more likely to let people throw shade on private and discredit the person that's actively scumreading her, instead of expressing doubt about whether or not private is scummy. it feels slightly town indicative

[staypositivefriend]

noraa and midway are probably the two names that i townread the most strongly right now. i'm gonna sort out the rest of my thoughts into a reads list of sorts this evening. let me know if there's anything specific that y'all want my opinion on - i work best when i'm communicating and sorting out my thoughts in real time with other people

[staypositivefriend]

Spring breeze's posting is still pretty scummy

in what way?

[staypositivefriend]

Just curious, how much of this townread on me was influenced by petapan?

lol it's really funny that you ask that, cause it was influenced by petapan a lot. they showed me some of your scum meta and told me that they thought you were town, and it was a read that i sort of sponged from him as i read your lines and thought that your thought process and your style of speaking felt

significantly

less stilted than it did in your scumgame

[staypositivefriend]

let me know if there's anything specific that y'all want my opinion on

What's your read on Jake now?

rand town, i

guess

. his reasoning is extremely hard for me to understand but i don't sense any scum intention from his posts. there is a level of internal consistency to their progression from the way they go from questioning gamma on #137 to scumreading them on #168. i also think that they'd be less likely to tell noraa to stop posting so much on #383 if they were playing from a scum mindset - i imagine that scum would be happy to have a player like noraa to distract from the gamesolving

[staypositivefriend]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure peta has a pretty good handle on reading me which is why I asked.
I scrolled through those posts from Jake, and your points seem pretty good. Those seemed to come after your interaction yesterday, so I'm guessing you still find his reactions in the moment to be a bit muddled?

@clidd Long time no see. Excited for your thoughts

yeah, i thought his reaction was strange in the sense that he seemed perfectly comfortable with the prospect of being a "LHF" player that people push on all of the time, but he also seemed genuinely frustrated and annoyed about the pressure on him. it was weird to see him actively digging his grave while sounding so stressed out about it, and his reasoning/questioning toward me felt completely nonsensical in the moment

in spite of that, i don't necessarily see his reaction as coming from a scum mindset. if anything, the messiness and inconsistency of his reaction is town indicative

[staypositivefriend]

I read them as trying too hard to act comfortable.

Which is entirely what I'd expect from a new player participating in an event like this.

SPF is from EM and that site is much faster paced than this one, I highly doubt someone from EM would be uncomfortable in a slower paced environment?

i actually felt

extremely

out of place in the first few hours of this game, because i'm used to refreshing threads on my homesite and seeing 20+ new posts every 10 minutes

i'm getting more used to it now tho

[staypositivefriend]

isnt it easier to play slower paced?

i remember EM being way too fast

like i logged in day 2 and it was already over :/

going from games where i get new information to interpret constantly vs games where people dont post for hours at a time is definitely a jarring change, even tho i would describe the slower pace as easier in a sense

[staypositivefriend]

have the last 22 pages influenced your read at all?

[staypositivefriend]

shady & i traded reads with each other from our respective games. i gave him a list of players to ISO (private1, cheetory6, punkball) and i'm gonna paraphrase his thoughts while adding some of my own:

private1:

shady got the impression that private is genuinely trying to share the perspectives they have while theyre here and following along on mobile, even if their posts lack substance. he's suspicious of people who are pushing on private too hard and thinks that a push on private will not yield much valuable information right now. i'm inclined to agree - i do take issue with some of private's posts, but they are absolutely a LHF target at the moment, and it's hard to get anything valuable out of pressuring them when they are so disengaged from the broader context of the game. i could see this slot being scum but shady's analysis makes me want to pressure outside

cheetory6:

shady thought that cheeto's slot warranted more pressure and suspicion, and there were several moments in cheeto's ISO that he felt iffy about. shady especially zero'd in on cheeto's progression on zaiden - he thought that cheeto treated zaiden's slot in a weird way, and that his vote on zaiden a little while ago meshed awkwardly with the stances about zaiden that he had taken earlier in the thread

i looked into this myself and i agree that the progression is a little weird - the soft defense of zaiden on #425 is uncomfortable given that cheeto did not engage with the cases against zaiden and moreso broadly declared that he will "probably" be easier to read later in the game. in spite of this, they say on #434 that they're willing to pressure zaiden if other scummy slots get townier, and then they end up voting for zaiden on #574. this progression bothers me in the sense that i don't feel like cheeto gave genuine consideration to zaiden's alignment in his build-up to his vote - he felt overly concerned with playing into the dynamic of the thread instead of carving out his own stance

pink ball:

shady seemed kind of torn about this slot, and was confused about pink saying on #564 that cakez's read on me was the "best" analysis posted so far in the game. he seemed receptive to the idea that pink was town, in that he thought pink's opening was too scummy to be scum, and he noted that #501 presented a higher level/depth of thought in pink's analysis than had been implied by his earlier posts

[staypositivefriend]

me & shady both like the simplicity of that response

[staypositivefriend]

i started writing out a big list of reads and then realized that making analysis of 17 different players barely over 24 hours into the game is a wildly unnecessary waste of my time and energy in a game with a 2 week deadline

so instead, i'm just gonna focus on finding solid townreads that i can trust and use as a foundation for the rest of my solving in this game. the two names i have right now are noraa and midway. i would like to expand that another couple of names by the time today ends

[staypositivefriend]

i started writing out a big list of reads and then realized that making analysis of 17 different players barely over 24 hours into the game is a wildly unnecessary waste of my time and energy in a game with a 2 week deadline

so instead, i'm just gonna focus on finding solid townreads that i can trust and use as a foundation for the rest of my solving in this game. the two names i have right now are noraa and midway. i would like to expand that another couple of names by the time today ends

Noraa?

yup. i explained it a little bit on #482

[staypositivefriend]

well, i'm gonna trust the peoples with meta on

mwb

so far VOTE: Cheeotry

cuz what has been said so far + this post

I'm not gonna not vote someone if I think their posting is scummy-looking just because it comes right after a vote on me. Lol.

overjustificaton imo

what's MWB?

[staypositivefriend]

well, i'm gonna trust the peoples with meta on

mwb

so far VOTE: Cheeotry

cuz what has been said so far + this post

I'm not gonna not vote someone if I think their posting is scummy-looking just because it comes right after a vote on me. Lol.

overjustificaton imo

what's MWB?

oh, you must be referring to midwaybear

i'm not sure i love you piggybacking off of the read i outed on cheeotry when it wasn't even strictly a scumread, and when i openly townread the way that they responded to me

[staypositivefriend]

VOTE: PookyTheMagicalBear

[staypositivefriend]

VOTE: Jake
I think Gamma is town, and I do think Jake's fixation around Gamma is scummy (I think this is what Zaiden sees?).

@Jingle I think Noraa's town play is extremely erratic and can appear pretty scummy. I have no clue if her scum game is similar to this, but these sort of wild reads are generally what I would expect.

would you mind selling me on gamma being town? is it just because you feel that they are playing in such a lazy/passive way that you feel would be counter-intuitive for scum to do?

[staypositivefriend]

I can replace out if people think I'm actually being an asshole.

i wouldn't worry about it, i think you're doing fine

[staypositivefriend]

i'll choose my words carefully here because i don't wanna come across as angle-shooty, but i feel like cheetory!scum probably would not be taking zaiden's words to him so personally. the amount of frustration that he's showing toward zaiden is probably coming from the perspective of a town who feels genuinely hurt by the way that zaiden characterized him

and fwiw, i havent taken a deep dive into the suspicions toward zaiden yet, but i do think his frustration is authentic. it's clear from reading through his ISO that there has been a level of frustration and resentment bubbling beneath the surface as the game has gone on, and the stuff he posted on the last page felt like he was "letting it all out" in a way. it's worth questioning if this emotion is town indicative, but i ~do~ think the emotion is authentic

[staypositivefriend]

would you mind selling me on gamma being town? is it just because you feel that they are playing in such a lazy/passive way that you feel would be counter-intuitive for scum to do?

Yeah, pretty much. I think he would be more engaged with this game as scum, and it makes sense that his team hasn't been able to help him out that much. I did find his motivation to vote Zaiden a bit question, and I still don't understand what 788 is supposed to mean lol. Sort of a gut read at this point though, so I don't know if I can really sell you on it.

alright thanks, i think his posts are

fine

so far even if they lack a certain level of substance that i've been expecting to see from gamma

[staypositivefriend]

everyone else going off vibes from prior experience/be able to tell what player based scum slips are

Who has been doing this? I might have missed this, but I haven’t really gotten the feeling that most people are using meta to scumread others.

Some reads don't make sense and when people don't bother explaining the only way to rationalise it in my mind is meta.

So SFP full townreads SpringBreeze just because they feel like it and that's supposed to make total sense without any sort of justification

? Wouldn't the gap in needing to explain anything therefore be meta? As for the lack of response over my queries on Pooky/SpringBreeze. Again, wouldn't the lack of any explaining anything be a gap that's filled in everyone else's mind by meta? Apparently Gamma was scumlean to some people because of being pedantic, which again sounds like a gap that's being filled with meta. Like why must being pedantic be a scum indicative thing? Because if you ask me, none of these responses (or the lack thereof) make any sense without using meta to explain why some players would hold a certain opinion. Because I'm being asked to take things at face value which I personally just can't take at face value in the absence of any actual explanation.

if the "SFP" in this post is referring to me, then i haven't outed a stance on springbreeze yet, and i also am not being purposefully coy with my reads. feel free to ask me for my stances on anyone here - i am an open book

and ftr, the reason i didn't respond to your inquiry about pooky earlier is because i have zero experience with how pooky plays as scum, and a question that specifically revolves around his meta isn't something i felt qualified to answer. it had nothing to do w/my choice to vote him last night either

[staypositivefriend]

does anyone here townread pooky?

[staypositivefriend]

i have no baseline for how noraa usually plays as mafia, but none of her posts have particularly pinged me, and a number of them have felt town-indicative. there is a level of spontaneity/fluidity to her reads that i suspect would come off as more stilted/awkward if she was playing from a scum mindset. some of her stances have been inconsistent/unsubstantiated, but i assume that's more of a personality tell than an alignment tell

i'm not vibing w/the noraa wagon unless someone presents a very strong case. i'm parking my vote on pooky until he towntells

[staypositivefriend]

what type of towntell would you like spf?

i'm not picky. if u throw me a bone and tell me some reads/impressions that u have, i'll prolly pressure somewhere else

[staypositivefriend]

i like jingle/murdercat/mwb/pball/cheeto/noraa

kanna is hard-town for me.

my scumleans are spf/cakez

why do you scumlean cakez?

and how much is your scumlean on me influenced by DKoba's read on me?

[staypositivefriend]

it's mostly koba

they have been screaming at me that you're scum for the last day and a half but I usually ignore them

yeah they singlehandedly hardtunneled me into a mislynch on d1 in the last game we played so i would 100% ignore anything they have to say about me (sorry koba)

[staypositivefriend]

yeah they singlehandedly hardtunneled me into a mislynch on d1 in the last game we played so i would 100% ignore anything they have to say about me (sorry koba)

um wouldn't that make them less likely to make the same mistake again?

Koba says you feel very very agenda-y.

i see no indication that koba learned from their mistakes, so no

[staypositivefriend]

cakez scumlean is from him feeling a lot more confident than Antechamber, closer to Among Us. - I think this might be CakezScum2.0 that he upgraded to when Cabd gave him a bunch of tips about how to play the red alignment. He's feeling very strong - like a jungle gorilla hunting for prey almost.

thanks for explaining. i just skimmed through cakez's ISO and the only real issue i take w/them is that a lot of their reads feel like they come from the place of cakez's feeling "obligated" to take stances.

I think Jake's response to the wagon is moreso town knowing his history~

Zaiden's entrance looks town
Gamma needs to get something better then his Jake vote
I think SPF's more recent posts looked better

VOTE: spring breeze

cakez throws out a lot of stances here but none of them feel substantiated, and all of them feel like stances that could easily come from scum on auto-pilot

i'm also concerned that cakez's defense of zaiden is coming from a place of TMI, in the sense that his confidence that zaiden is town is not proportional to his reasoning in the slightest

[staypositivefriend]

Koba says you are blatantly lying in order to discredit them because they are the only one in here who knows you.

that's p funny

koba probably thinks i'm lying because i said that they "singlehandedly" strongarmed the mislynch onto me, when it was actually the effort of like 2-3 people.

[staypositivefriend]

koba says they were just sheeping someone else and it wasnt even their fault you got mislynched

that's uh....patently not true.....but koba isn't in this game so i can be cocky and ignore them completely

[staypositivefriend]

wait you're voting me why would I sheep you

koba is an idiot

LMAO

im taking this as confirmation that ur scum, thank u for the assistance koba

[staypositivefriend]

spf sheep me

i think you should sheep me, since i ~was~ the first person to scumread cakez, after all

[staypositivefriend]

i would Never.

[staypositivefriend]

VOTE: SirCakez

it's me, the first person voting sircakez

[staypositivefriend]

i townlean pooky somewhat now, for an extremely bad reason that i refuse to explain

[staypositivefriend]

@zaiden -

one of my partners (super) says that you are hard town and that she feels bad for the pressure you're under. she wants to be in the same game as you because she's a big fan of clannad too

[staypositivefriend]

@zaiden -

one of my partners (super) says that you are hard town and that she feels bad for the pressure you're under. she wants to be in the same game as you because she's a big fan of clannad too

on that note, i'm coming around to a zaiden!town world as well

[staypositivefriend]

VOTE: Gypyx

this is a better wagon than zaiden

[staypositivefriend]

Gypyx had an extremely awkward progression on Cheetory over the last ~12 hours or so

He unvotes MWB, saying that he wants to trust peoples meta on them, and then switches to Cheetory because of "what has been said so far"

well, i'm gonna trust the peoples with meta on mwb so far VOTE: Cheeotry

cuz what has been said so far + this post

I'm not gonna not vote someone if I think their posting is scummy-looking just because it comes right after a vote on me. Lol.

overjustificaton imo

That's extremely vague reasoning, but it isn't inherently alignment indicative. The issue is that when Gypyx is prompted to give an example of "what has been said", he cites a post that I made:

mostly thinking about Post 581 from SPF when saying that

i know that's an answer, but idk, it just sounds really focused on not getting heat?

idk if my 7 in the morning brain makes sense tbh

The issue with him citing Post #581 as a justification for his vote on Cheetory is that #581 was not a scumread on Cheetory by any means, and three posts after, I actually ended up saying that I

townread

the way that Cheetory responded to me. It's hard to believe that Gypyx missed that fact.

When I pointed out Gypx's inconsistency, he gave me this response:

well, i'm gonna trust the peoples with meta on

mwb

so far VOTE: Cheeotry

cuz what has been said so far + this post

I'm not gonna not vote someone if I think their posting is scummy-looking just because it comes right after a vote on me. Lol.

overjustificaton imo

what's MWB?

oh, you must be referring to midwaybear

i'm not sure i love you piggybacking off of the read i outed on cheeotry when it wasn't even strictly a scumread, and when i openly townread the way that they responded to me

yeah isn't my brightest vote ever, i'll let you SR me for that yeah lol

but like, if they're not to get peoples to follow your vote, what's the point of outing reads anyways?

This is

fine

, and I decided to back off of Gypyx at this point to give him some breathing room and to see if his read on Cheetory would develop further.

12 hours later, Gypyx comes into the thread with this post:

Sup y'all

Iv has a TR on mwb so imma leave him be UNVOTE:

Dunno where to go next though

This is awkward in the sense that Gypyx's vote at the time was on Cheetory and not on MWB, but Gypyx presents his unvote as though he had suddenly become convinced to back off of MWB, even though

he had already

backed off of and unvoted MWB on post #609. I hate the way that Gypyx presents his choice to unvote Cheetory as actually being about MWB - it feels like he's trying to absolve himself of responsibility for his vote on Cheetory by deflecting to something completely irrelevant.

When I pair this with the fact that Gypyx proceeds to vote for Zaiden on #774, it gives off the impression that Gypyx is not actually invested in his solving and is more concerned with how his image is being perceived than he is with parsing the alignments of the people that he's interacting with. This isn't a slam-dunk case, but it's more than enough to make me want to put a lot more pressure on Gypyx

[staypositivefriend]

cakez scumlean is from him feeling a lot more confident than Antechamber, closer to Among Us. - I think this might be CakezScum2.0 that he upgraded to when Cabd gave him a bunch of tips about how to play the red alignment. He's feeling very strong - like a jungle gorilla hunting for prey almost.

I have feeling more confident in general lately
The shadow cabal flows through me

cakez scumlean is from him feeling a lot more confident than Antechamber, closer to Among Us. - I think this might be CakezScum2.0 that he upgraded to when Cabd gave him a bunch of tips about how to play the red alignment. He's feeling very strong - like a jungle gorilla hunting for prey almost.

thanks for explaining. i just skimmed through cakez's ISO and the only real issue i take w/them is that a lot of their reads feel like they come from the place of cakez's feeling "obligated" to take stances.

I think Jake's response to the wagon is moreso town knowing his history~

Zaiden's entrance looks town
Gamma needs to get something better then his Jake vote
I think SPF's more recent posts looked better

VOTE: spring breeze

cakez throws out a lot of stances here but none of them feel substantiated, and all of them feel like stances that could easily come from scum on auto-pilot

i'm also concerned that cakez's defense of zaiden is coming from a place of TMI, in the sense that his confidence that zaiden is town is not proportional to his reasoning in the slightest

I read on tone a lot and Zaidens tone is just screaming green at me
So yes I feel strongly

i agree with you on zaiden - wanna vote gypx with me? how do you feel about the points i made on #953?

[staypositivefriend]

VOTE: Gypyx

this is a better wagon than zaiden

rude

it's interesting that you responded to this but not to the points i made against you here: viewtopic.php?p=12523324#p12523324

you wanna defend yourself?

[staypositivefriend]

if im being real then the last 5 pages made my townread on noraa evaporate considerably

[staypositivefriend]

in particular, post #1007 from noraa where she says that she needs to "come back to zaiden's post later and give it a lot of thought" just feels performative to me, and like she's giving herself an "out" to not take a stance on zaiden by acting like she's going to come back later and think about him deeply

[staypositivefriend]

Also unwnd and me both agree Jingle has openly tried to pocket people like Cakez (and is doing it successfully)

Honestly, just take a glance at Jingles iso and read it slowly. I have it written another way in my notes but my teammates is funnier so:

'Everything Jingle types looks like a scummy cars saleman trying to sell me a rip off on words alone'

could you provide an example of a post or two that you think exemplifies this? i am willing to listen to a case on jingle

[staypositivefriend]

btw, could someone do a sanity check for my points about gypx on viewtopic.php?p=12523324#p12523324 ? am i the only one who found that suspicious? it's weird that no one else took note of the stuff i brought up

[staypositivefriend]

if im being real then the last 5 pages made my townread on noraa evaporate considerably

You're a very surface level thinker then.

if this is supposed to be ATE, then it isn't going to make me townread you

what are the non-surface level reasons that i should townread you?

[staypositivefriend]

why should i tr u right now?

[staypositivefriend]

@spf

it seemed to me, especially with the followup gyp had that he was being a combination of lazy/inaccurate,
probably due to jumping into the thread while not really wanting to effort or not having a strong feeling on the game.

The phrasing in 767 feels more like he's just saying he generally doesn't know where to go next, not that he's unvoting because
he's currently pushing MWB and is changing his mind on the matter and thus unvoting.
It comes across like.. two separate thoughts being included in the same post.

I don't think being uninvested at that point is scummy and I think there are other points in the game that gyp has been solvey. Plus I think Gyp strikes me as the type that would be a little more calculating/careful as mafia, whereas he more seems detached rn, and I think he would just coast if he was scum.

I'd wanted to respond sooner/pick at MorningTweet's casing on him but I'm trying to force myself to not touch this game (and moderately failing in doing so if I'm being honest (': )

I might try to do some ISOdives if I manage to get enough work done tonight.

p-edit: noraa regardless of whether you're town or scum here, I think you're overdoing it in terms of the "if u think im scum then ur dumb or scum" stuff. I totally get that it's frustrating being scumread but you should try to work on responding to it in a less destructive way regardless of what your alignment is here because it's bad for gamestate, makes people feel bad and probably isn't helping anyone read you more accurately.

thanks for the insight - i agree that it's possible that gypx was sharing two different thoughts and then clumsily condensing them into the same post. i would find this explanation more reasonable if gypx hadn't already explained that he was backing off of MWB earlier in the game, though. the fact that he repeated the same thing about him wanting to back off of MWB and combining it with the unvote just comes off as unbelievably awkward/shady to me. that said, your point about his level of detachment being more likely to come from a gypx!town mindset than a gypx!scum mindset is a legitimate one

[staypositivefriend]

i don't mean this in a rude way, but are noraa's reads always so messy as town? i noted a number of internal contradictions/inconsistencies/vague reasoning in the posts she made over the last couple of pages, and it made me worry that her gamesolving isnt coming from a real place

if this is standard for her town game then she probably is still just town

[staypositivefriend]

i don't mean this in a rude way, but are noraa's reads always so messy as town? i noted a number of internal contradictions/inconsistencies/vague reasoning in the posts she made over the last couple of pages, and it made me worry that her gamesolving isnt coming from a real place

if this is standard for her town game then she probably is still just town

how else do you think I end up eating day 1 rope in all my town games?

sure, but i find it funny that you're arguing that you are obvious town who should be townread by everyone here while simultaneously arguing that you're just

so

scummy as town that you end up getting chopped on d1 every game

don't those ideas seem a little contradictory?

[staypositivefriend]

@mwb - why is murder town?

[staypositivefriend]

is your scumlean on me 48 pages into the game still based on a post i made on page one? that concerns me

also, i would like to hear why you townlean murdersunny. most of his posts feel painfully null to me

[staypositivefriend]

Are you answering your own question or do you want me to answer it?

i'm prompting you to add more depth to your read, if it exists

[staypositivefriend]

FTR, my version of that list right now would roughly look something like:

MURDERSUNNY - null
Gypyx - scumlean
noraa - townlean
Zaiden - townread
Pink Ball - null (i actually really like their tone at certain spots so they would normally be a townlean, but i'm concerned about some of the progressions they've had)
Jingle - scumlean
Something_Smart - null
Spring Breeze - null
MariaR - townlean
PookyTheMagicalBear - townlean
SirCakez - townlean
Morning Tweet - townlean
PrivateI - null
Jake The Wolfie scumlean
Gamma Emerald - null
midwaybear - townread
Cheetory6 - townread

i can expand on any of these individually - being in the unique position of having meta on absolutely zero of the players here is something i'm acutely aware may be skewing some of my reads

[staypositivefriend]

I have a whole case on you that I don't want to present because I have a team behind me that townleans you and don't want me to push you

your team sounds based

[staypositivefriend]

What's being based? I looked it up and says that it originally meant to be addicted to crack cocaine

that's 100% what it means

[staypositivefriend]

When did Cakez became a townlean for you? I remember you being the actual first vote on him and not Pooky

yeah, i was sus about cakez when i iso'd them on #912 and i voted them, but it wasn't a push that felt right to me in my gut. i liked the overly blunt and simplistic way that cakez replied to me on #963, and i (egotistically) like the fact that they were willing to follow and validate my suspicions on gypx when the rest of the thread was silent about it. it felt hypocritical for me to be suspicious of cakez for townreading zaiden so confidently when i'm more or less in the same position as him right now

[staypositivefriend]

What's being based? I looked it up and says that it originally meant to be addicted to crack cocaine

that's 100% what it means

They absolutely sound based then

Have you seen FL's avatar?

i just checked it and i am happy to see them meeting the based aesthetic

perfectly

[staypositivefriend]

btw, i want to point out that i originally marked jake off as a townlean because i thought that the stances and angles he was pursuing were so bold and so aggressive that it would be unlikely for a scum under pressure to take them in the early game

but that read was predicated on the idea that jake was going somewhere with his scumhunting, and it really seems like he isn't. he's been lazily pushing on gamma for a while now with no real sense of conviction or internal motivation to actually solve gamma's slot, or to get people to vote with him.

i wouldn't mind if jake was lazy & detached from the game if his reads reflected that level of detachment - but i've been getting the impression that he is trying to give off the impression of scumhunting while not meaningfully reading or engaging with the game

[staypositivefriend]

I personally feel like Zaiden will become a more obvious wolf as the game goes on as you can see where Jingle will be the other way around so I would personally take a shot at them. However, if people aren't overly keen I will take the easy one.

^^i like this thought from maria

if maria is playing from a scum mindset, then it means that she successfully created a significant amount of momentum against zaiden and ensured that he would become the focal point of discussion today, only to deliberately switch her push onto a much more intimidating player and risk drawing a lot of heat on herself.

maria was already a universal TR when she made this post, so it's difficult to see the scum intent behind deliberately switching off of the wagon and the momentum that she singlehandedly created. the most simple answer is that her progression is coming from a town mindset

[staypositivefriend]

also i've seen a lot of townleans on murdersunny but very little explanation for them. is it a meta thing? cause i'm going to need the word of people i trust right now for me to get to a murder!town world

[staypositivefriend]

I believe that Murderkitty may be seeing the correct things about Noraa's play that makes it scummy -- although he does leave open the possibility that the change of meta is detached from her alignment entirely (she could be trying to avoid a miselim as town since she gets eliminated a lot).

an issue i have with the latter explanation is that i dont feel the changes Noraa is making (the abrasive parts) really does anything to help with that other than make her seem different/odd. The other problem is she comes off doing exactly what she does as scum which is where she projects several *confident* scumreads but the reasoning boils down to "they suspect me and they should be better than this". she acts like she's taking hard stances but it doesnt seem like she had an ample thought process to get there. I was pinged by this while reading 651.

The original point i was going to make was that Murdercatto has been able to successfully call out Noraa as scum on D2 in the last game where they met so him picking up on that is a good look if true. otherwise i dont have as much. I do want to note that piling on pressure on Noraa tends to make her harder to read for me, not less so, but enh i dont take issue with that strategy

pedit: @ SPF, although that ended up more talking about Noraa than Murder

cool, thanks for sharing your perspective. i agree that murder's towny equity would increase significantly if we do live in a noraa!scum world - i think the fact that i've been townleaning noraa for a good portion of this game has made me more skeptical about the intentions behind his push on her

[staypositivefriend]

it's interesting to me that gyp is essentially LHF, but that there has been a fairly significant absence of pressure on him. i would almost expect a player like gypx to face a lot more pressure & opportunism from the scum team if he was town

unless there's some kind of meta reason why scum might be reluctant to go after him

[staypositivefriend]

not really liking this post from spf, it seems pretty reachy/appeasement

I personally feel like Zaiden will become a more obvious wolf as the game goes on as you can see where Jingle will be the other way around so I would personally take a shot at them. However, if people aren't overly keen I will take the easy one.

^^i like this thought from maria

if maria is playing from a scum mindset, then it means that she successfully created a significant amount of momentum against zaiden and ensured that he would become the focal point of discussion today, only to deliberately switch her push onto a much more intimidating player and risk drawing a lot of heat on herself.

maria was already a universal TR when she made this post, so it's difficult to see the scum intent behind deliberately switching off of the wagon and the momentum that she singlehandedly created. the most simple answer is that her progression is coming from a town mindset

it's just maria saying i could do X or i could do Y. it does mean maria is probably town though

i'm talking about maria's general trajectory of bringing a ton of momentum on zaiden and then cementing herself as a near-universal townread, only to go back on her push and try to create momentum on another player that is significantly more threatening. it did not strike me as the type of progression that typically comes from someone w/a scum mindset

[staypositivefriend]

i'm talking about maria's general trajectory of bringing a ton of momentum on zaiden and then cementing herself as a near-universal townread, only to go back on her push and try to create momentum on another player that is significantly more threatening. it did not strike me as the type of progression that typically comes from someone w/a scum mindset

what do you mean by "significantly more threatening"?

jingle appears to be a player with an established level of clout and respect. zaiden does not

[staypositivefriend]

VOTE: jingle

p-edit: i understand that. but i'm still not understanding your original point? broken down, maria just says "everyone vote zaiden," some people do, and then she comes back and says "ok i can do jingle too" i'm not sure that's really indicative of anything and i certainly don't think scum can't do this?

the point is that 48 hours into the game, maria had successfully led a wagon against another player and established herself as a near-consensus townread. if she is scum, then her choice to go after jingle could bring heat onto her and jeopardize her strong position in the game. the shift in focus is something that town is more likely to do than scum

[staypositivefriend]

the point is that 48 hours into the game, maria had successfully led a wagon against another player and established herself as a near-consensus townread. if she is scum, then her choice to go after jingle could bring heat onto her and jeopardize her strong position in the game. the shift in focus is something that town is more likely to do than scum

maybe i'll just politely disagree on that one...

that's fine. you might understand my point more if you read through maria's ISO. it's less about a specific post and more about a general trajectory

[staypositivefriend]

it's possible i'm overstating the consensus of maria being town - i just recall seeing a number of townreads on her and very little shade. that paired w/her being the de-facto "leader" on the zaiden wagon makes her easy to perceive as someone in a consensus town position

[staypositivefriend]

i got 2 of my teammates (petapan & hercule) to ISO gypx for me, and they both came out of it agreeing that he's a slot that warrants more pressure/pushes. petapan thought that he was living up to his scum meta by not appearing to actually gamesolve & by going through the motions

[staypositivefriend]

I personally feel like Zaiden will become a more obvious wolf as the game goes on as you can see where Jingle will be the other way around so I would personally take a shot at them. However, if people aren't overly keen I will take the easy one.

^^i like this thought from maria

if maria is playing from a scum mindset, then it means that she successfully created a significant amount of momentum against zaiden and ensured that he would become the focal point of discussion today, only to deliberately switch her push onto a much more intimidating player and risk drawing a lot of heat on herself.

maria was already a universal TR when she made this post, so it's difficult to see the scum intent behind deliberately switching off of the wagon and the momentum that she singlehandedly created. the most simple answer is that her progression is coming from a town mindset

"Maria pushed a scumread then bailed when peoples started actually piling votes, clearly this not a maneuver to get minimal heat from pushing a town kill"

do u think that's what happened? is maria mafia?

[staypositivefriend]

the last couple of pages have cemented a cheetory townread for me

[staypositivefriend]

i'm also coming around to a pink ball town world, but my reasoning for that is a bit more abstract/unsubstantiated. there is a level of internal consideration/nuance to his solving that typically comes from a town mindset

[staypositivefriend]

@sircakez -

sell me on maria!scum? it seems like something you're confident about, and i'm not there yet

[staypositivefriend]

cheetory zaiden midwaybear are my strongest townreads atm. the tier below that is noraa and maria

[staypositivefriend]

@staypositivefriend, latest episode of Wonder Egg Priority just came out! Let me know what you think about this show. I think the second episode wasn't as good as the first episode because it doesn't have as much of the novelty factor anymore. But overall I'm really digging it so far.

i'm gonna watch it after work tonight - i'm stoked! the first episode had the highest level of promise i've ever seen for a new anime, so my expectations are high

[staypositivefriend]

cheetory

zaiden midwaybear

are my strongest townreads atm. the tier below that is noraa and maria

i've found zaiden towny for the entirety of this game & my teammates are backing me up on that. i would need to see a solid case against him to get to a zaiden!scum world atm

my townread on midwaybear is a little outdated because it's something i formed within the first 24 hours of this game, but i haven't found a reason to get concerned about them

[staypositivefriend]

genuinely dont feel like zaiden would take those comments so personally if he was playing from a scum mindset. i suppose that isnt something i can say definitively since i don't "know" him, but i do think that town tend to be more sensitive to feeling like their worth/utility to the game is being questioned

[staypositivefriend]

does anyone have a case against spring breeze? ive seen a lot of shade on that slot and i wanna dive into them because most of their posts have passed right by me

[staypositivefriend]

iso'ing spring breeze:

viewtopic.php?p=12515738#p12515738 - this is nitpicky but this post strikes me as a little bit performative, in the sense that spring positions her push on cheetory as an "attempt to find out if other people felt the same way", but she made zero strides to discuss her read or her thought process - she just silently voted

viewtopic.php?p=12516004#p12516004 - spring characterizes cheetory and zaiden's votes as "the worst votes on her", and i mean, sure. it just bothers me that she makes a very declarative statement about the votes without using it as an opportunity to dive deeper and explain ~why~ the votes from those two could belie a scum intent

viewtopic.php?p=12519344#p12519344 - the response to cakez's scumread on her is kinda weird, in the sense that her reaction is more deflective and inquisitive. cakez pointed out that he saw "something" scummy in spring's opening posts, and instead of spring questioning him further about that line of reasoning, she simply says: "i can't engage with this because there's no legitimate reasons to scumread me right now". where did the inquisitiveness go?

viewtopic.php?p=12519377#p12519377 - the reasoning to tr MWB is pretty vague but i do kinda like the reconsideration of cheetory

viewtopic.php?p=12520694#p12520694 - spring characterizes noraa's catch-up posts as "genuine/good faith", which could be, but the reasoning here is so broad that it'd be p easy for any scum on autopilot to out a read like this

viewtopic.php?p=12520809#p12520809 - this is a soft defense of zaiden, but it contrasts awkwardly w/the fact that spring was voting zaiden when she made this post. if this is how zaiden plays as either alignment, then why is she still voting him? if she does scumread him, why even drop this defense?

viewtopic.php?p=12521289#p12521289 - i would like this post from spring IF the last couple of sentences didn't exist. she says she's reconsidering zaiden and it comes off as pretty authentic, but she immediately negates her own reconsideration by hedging on him and leaving her read on zaiden open-ended. bleh.

viewtopic.php?p=12523345#p12523345 - how did spring go from hedging on zaiden in her last post about him to townreading zaiden in this post? i don't understand the progression

viewtopic.php?p=12527742#p12527742 - the analysis here is deeper and more thoughtful than most of the analysis spring has outed so far. it's a decent look

viewtopic.php?p=12527815#p12527815 - i sorttt of like how spring handled this engagement with me about my read on maria? i could tell that she "wanted" to say but more decided to restrain herself, and i would expect scum to use that as an opportunity to try to bury me or make me look worse

viewtopic.php?p=12529820#p12529820 - spring continues the trend of using overly broad/generic language to substantiate her reads (ie: "noraa is being too genuine to be fake"), and that lack of specificity is something that has consistently pinged me throughout her ISO

conclusion:

broadly speaking, the biggest issue i have with spring is that her reads oftentimes feel so non-descript and vague that it's impossible for me to determine if they're coming from a town mindset. there are several moments where i imagine that spring!town would dig deeper & use certain posts as an opportunity to flesh out her reads, but she doesn't. a lot of her progressions feel very "safe" even if they maintain some level of internal consistency

i do think that spring has a tone that comes off as authentic and sincere (which is part of the reason i haven't looked into her until now), but there are several moments in her ISO that raised my eyebrows and made me feel concerned about her. i would downgrade her to null-leaning scum

[staypositivefriend]

also, i really like doing these types of ISOs on people. they help me flesh out my reads a lot more. if there's anyone specific that someone wants me to do an ISO on, HMU

[staypositivefriend]

does anyone have a case against spring breeze? ive seen a lot of shade on that slot and i wanna dive into them because most of their posts have passed right by me

I haven't seen any shade towards Spring Breeze, could you show me?

i assume that's sarcasm

how did you feel about the iso i did on her? did any of my points resonate or align w/yours?

[staypositivefriend]

genuinely dont feel like zaiden would take those comments so personally if he was playing from a scum mindset. i suppose that isnt something i can say definitively since i don't "know" him, but i do think that town tend to be more sensitive to feeling like their worth/utility to the game is being questioned

My only problem with this argument, which I agree, is that at the same time there was a wagon starting to build on Zaiden, so the frustration could come as scum being defeated, and his conflict with Cheet would've been just the icing of the cake

that is a legitimate point, but i will say that if zaiden's frustration was stemming from the wagon on him, it isn't reflected much at all in the stuff he's chosen to focus on. zaiden is focusing less on being read incorrectly and more about being treated unfairly, and the focus on the "treatment" he's getting is something that strikes me as town indicative

[staypositivefriend]

- spf; my teammate infinity says he mindmelds with her a lot, and i agree she's had good takes, but i don't think she's towntold enough for a townread. this maria post (1209) still pings me; i still think is too logic leapy, and she expresses a townread on mariar for it which i think is unwarranted. i don't *think* i'm misunderstanding the point, or at least am too far off

- jake is lhf, but should absolutely not be townread by any stretch of the imagination

- gypx, i think is town. he's low effort solving, but still solving

- pink ball, i'm pretty self conscious that i'm an attractive push for scum, but i don't think i can in good faith call that a scum push. otherwise content is a lot of asking questions and short comments which is pretty null.

1. is this read on me not directly contradictory with your position here?

i really like spf so far; her deductions have been really good. unless i need to rethink, i think she's just town. agree with the noraa read and jake read.

you characterize me as town because my "deductions have been good", but in this post, you're saying that the deductions i've posted haven't been towny enough to warrant a townread. ....so, which one is it?

2. do you mind taking a more firm stance on jake here? we know that he's LHF - but does that mean that you scumread him? is jake a good hit today? i wanna hear your thought process about him

3. would you mind pointing me in the direction of some solving you've seen from gypx? the thing that's pinged me about him is a perceived lack of solving in his game

4. you characterized pink ball's treatment/push on you as "unfair" earlier in the game - how does pink ball treating you unfairly contrast with the idea that you think pink's push is in good faith? isn't it usually one or the other?

i know these are a lot of questions to throw at you, but i had some concerns w/some of the wording and the reads you outed in that post

[staypositivefriend]

I mean it feels like you're ignoring the "genuine" part of what I said?

I'm not; I said that I don't think it's especially genuine-looking, but that doesn't mean it isn't genuine. It is reasonable enough that I have no reason to believe that it isn't genuine, which means I'm not concerned about it.

i agreed with this 72 hours ago, but jake has deflated to a ridiculous extent within the past couple of days. i don't know why that is, but it seems odd to bring up jake's ~genuine~ solving without also bringing up the fact that he hasn't solved for several real life days now

[staypositivefriend]

So did everybody just ignore PrivateI?

what did you think about his catch-up?

[staypositivefriend]

something_smart, who do u wanna chop today? where are you immediately looking right now?

[staypositivefriend]

cool. do you have an opinion on spring breeze?

[staypositivefriend]

Spring Breeze has been pretty unimpressive from the one post of hers that I can remember that's not flirting with Pooky. I asked her about Jake, and I'm still hoping to hear back, because as I said I didn't like her comment at all.

i've become gradually more and more concerned about her

[staypositivefriend]

hey gypyx, can u give me a quick summary of your reads right now? who's maf? who do u wanna chop today? help me see where ur head is at

[staypositivefriend]

uh fine, really quick though as i really have to sleep

town : cheet / SPF / MWB / gamma?

scum : MariaR / Cakez / Pooky??? (need to read)

Noraa : Noraa

also have a read on murder that i'm not willing to disclose until future events

pedit : ty noraa, very cool

kk thanks, i'd like to hear u expand on some of these reads when u have the time

[staypositivefriend]

sircakez ISO:

i was gonna come after cakez for hedging on jake's alignment on viewtopic.php?p=12513768#p12513768, but i like that he follows up with his read on jake on viewtopic.php?p=12514804#p12514804. the rest of the reads he outs in this post are pretty generic/vague

viewtopic.php?p=12516692#p12516692 - i don't love how vague cakez is w/his explanation for why spring breeze's early posting was scummy. he seemed to observe something suspicious/wolfy about her, but the reasoning he provides is simply: "her posts look fakeable". acknowledging that something looks fakeable vs finding something fakeable are two different things, and it's a little weird that cakez conflates the two here

viewtopic.php?p=12520359#p12520359 - i sort of like the reasons cakez gives to be suspicious of spring breeze here, because i got pinged by something similar

viewtopic.php?p=12522802#p12522802 - this post about noraa is weird in the sense that cakez seemed pretty vaguely suspicious about noraa up to this point - i don't get why he soft defends her here

viewtopic.php?p=12524734#p12524734 - meh. i sort of like the re-consideration of noraa in his following posts. it shows, at the very least, that cakes's scumhunting is not completely static & that his reads are capable of evolving

viewtopic.php?p=12530369#p12530369 - i also sort of like the fact that cakez changes his read on zaiden, because a concern that i had early on in the game was that cakez was confidently defending/shielding zaiden from a place of TMI

viewtopic.php?p=12530377#p12530377 - the progression on spring breeze is p weird - cakez went from calling spring breeze scum, to scumreading her even more, to saying that her recent posts were "better", to putting her as null-town

there's nothing inherently scum indicative about that progression, but cakez's ISO is so devoid of concrete explanations for his reads that it makes it difficult to evaluate if his read on spring is coming from a place of genuine re-evaluation. i would like him to explain his current stance/progression on spring

viewtopic.php?p=12532362#p12532362 - this is a very tiny point but i tend to tr people who out reads like this, in the sense that for a scum player to ~wait~ for a game to finish to point an observation about an ongoing game requires a level of complexity/nuance to a players thought process that scum generally have trouble faking

viewtopic.php?p=12534715#p12534715 - lol i know this is fakeable but gth it's indicative of a person who's genuinely trying to solve. i sort of like that cakez's attitude toward being scumread was not to complain and get overly defensive, but to feel the need to "step up" his game to not disappoint his teammates. it's the type of thought process that ~is~ fakeable as scum, but is generally rand!town

conclusion:

cakez's reads, generally speaking, have a level of internal consistency and clear progression. the real issue is that cakez oftentimes does not explain or expand on his progressions, so it's difficult to evaluate whether or not his stances are coming from a place of good faith

i don't feel that i could comfortably townread cakez based on this analysis, but i would place him in the null-leaning town pile. it seems like most of the points against him are meta based, and unless anyone can provide why his game today is scummy ~outside~ of his meta, i'm not going to be interested in wagoning him today

[staypositivefriend]

if the pool of spring breeze/gypx/jake/jingle doesn't have at least one scum, then my solving this game is p off. those are the four names that i keep coming back to

[staypositivefriend]

if the pool of spring breeze/gypx/jake/jingle doesn't have at least one scum, then my solving this game is p off. those are the four names that i keep coming back to

spf is town for sure

jingle is probably town

any particular reason for the townread on jingle? i tried iso'ing him earlier and his posts are just kind of

there.

[staypositivefriend]

if the pool of spring breeze/gypx/jake/jingle doesn't have at least one scum, then my solving this game is p off. those are the four names that i keep coming back to

spf is town for sure

jingle is probably town

any particular reason for the townread on jingle? i tried iso'ing him earlier and his posts are just kind of

there.

If it helps I can't think of a single name on site I'd say can read me consistently.

do you think uve towntold?

[staypositivefriend]

starting to feel like i cleared maria way too easily

[staypositivefriend]

do you think uve towntold?

There are things that I've done this game that I think are much more likely to come from town me than scum me, but no, I don't think I've broken out of my scumrange.

wrt the skitter thing, I 100% would have included her if I were scum. Not because I don't think she's scary, but because pointing people at a gamestate read that is similar to this one where she was actively a player in that game would have been asking skitter to shine a proctoscope so far up my ass she could see what I was eating.

I wouldn't have faked not knowing she was in the event as either alignment, because not paying attention to which 80 people are in the game isn't an AI thing in the first place so I have nothing to gain there.

thanks for answering. i get the impression that you're one of those players that's the easiest to catch by VCA/wagon dynamics. if you're scum then your alignment will probably become more clear by lategame

[staypositivefriend]

VOTE: SpringBreeze

[staypositivefriend]

i noticed a slight inconsistency in your case (you said that SB wasn't pushing on cheetory before i brought up that something they did was towny - but their push on cheetory actually came before that point), but i vibe w/several of the other points that you made.

to piggyback off of the case that you made, something that pinged me about spring breeze this morning was the list of reads that she outed on #1622. i hinted at the stuff that was bothering me in my follow-up post, and i'll quote it for posterity:

- spf; my teammate infinity says he mindmelds with her a lot, and i agree she's had good takes, but i don't think she's towntold enough for a townread. this maria post (1209) still pings me; i still think is too logic leapy, and she expresses a townread on mariar for it which i think is unwarranted. i don't *think* i'm misunderstanding the point, or at least am too far off

- jake is lhf, but should absolutely not be townread by any stretch of the imagination

- gypx, i think is town. he's low effort solving, but still solving

- pink ball, i'm pretty self conscious that i'm an attractive push for scum, but i don't think i can in good faith call that a scum push. otherwise content is a lot of asking questions and short comments which is pretty null.

1. is this read on me not directly contradictory with your position here?

i really like spf so far; her deductions have been really good. unless i need to rethink, i think she's just town. agree with the noraa read and jake read.

you characterize me as town because my "deductions have been good", but in this post, you're saying that the deductions i've posted haven't been towny enough to warrant a townread. ....so, which one is it?

2. do you mind taking a more firm stance on jake here? we know that he's LHF - but does that mean that you scumread him? is jake a good hit today? i wanna hear your thought process about him

3. would you mind pointing me in the direction of some solving you've seen from gypx? the thing that's pinged me about him is a perceived lack of solving in his game

4. you characterized pink ball's treatment/push on you as "unfair" earlier in the game - how does pink ball treating you unfairly contrast with the idea that you think pink's push is in good faith? isn't it usually one or the other?

i know these are a lot of questions to throw at you, but i had some concerns w/some of the wording and the reads you outed in that post

several of the positions that SB took in her wallpost felt directly contradictory to the positions she took earlier in the game, and the way that she positioned her read on jake and pink ball in particular felt like she was trying to have it both ways - shading the players without directly confronting or pushing on them.

it also bothered me that spring characterized PB's push on her as being in "good faith", when she said that she thought pink ball was treating her unfairly just a day or two ago. it felt like she made that point about pink ball in the hopes of getting him off her back.

i think the SB slot needs a lot more pressure

[staypositivefriend]

uh fine, really quick though as i really have to sleep

town : cheet / SPF / MWB / gamma?

scum : MariaR / Cakez / Pooky??? (need to read)

Noraa : Noraa

also have a read on murder that i'm not willing to disclose until future events

pedit : ty noraa, very cool

kk thanks, i'd like to hear u expand on some of these reads when u have the time

say right now who you want me to develop for when i got time

the scumread on pooky and the tr on gamma

[staypositivefriend]

^this is towny I think.

at the very least it's a whole-ass mood.

it's a little towny, yeah. i like the transparency

[staypositivefriend]

MURDERSUNNY - null leaning town
Gypyx - null leaning town
noraa - townlean
Zaiden - town
Pink Ball - townlean
Jingle - null
Something_Smart - null
Spring Breeze - scumlean
MariaR - null
PookyTheMagicalBear - townlean
SirCakez - null leaning town
Morning Tweet - townlean
PrivateI - scumlean
Jake The Wolfie scumlean
Gamma Emerald - null
midwaybear - townlean
Cheetory6 - town

[staypositivefriend]

i have some concerns about spring breeze's progression on pink ball

these are in chronological order:

i feel like you’re treating me very unfairly pink ball and it’s a little unpleasant

- pink ball, i'm pretty self conscious that i'm an attractive push for scum, but

i don't think i can in good faith call that a scum push

. otherwise content is a lot of asking questions and short comments which is pretty null.

i still have yet to catch up on everything, but i struggle to see how that case was in good faith

mostly, i struggle to understand how spring breeze shifted from: "pink ball is treating me unfairly" to "pink ball is treating me unfairly, but he's town" to "pink ball is treating me unfairly, so he's scum"

there may be a more complex thought process behind SB's progression on pink ball, but on the surface, i get the impression that her reaction to pink ball's push on her is more reactive than inquisitive/insightful

[staypositivefriend]

mostly, i struggle to understand how spring breeze shifted from: "pink ball is treating me unfairly" to "pink ball is treating me unfairly, but he's town" to "pink ball is treating me unfairly, so he's scum"

there may be a more complex thought process behind SB's progression on pink ball, but on the surface, i get the impression that her reaction to pink ball's push on her is more reactive than inquisitive/insightful

i thought his case was very misrep for the reasons i described

and i'm going to take a break from the thread. no comment about that

p-edit: i asked you nicely to stop saying i'm playing the victim, but ok

well i understand that you felt his case was misrepresentative, but you already mentioned earlier in this thread that you felt his treatment of you was unfair, and it did not seem to impact your read on him at all. if anything, you seemed to feel that his ~unfair~ treatment of you was town indicative

so, if you already felt that pink ball's push on you was unfair and it did not impact your read on him, why is it suddenly making you scumread him?

[staypositivefriend]

I am sheeping SPF somewhat on Gypyx but but I also feel he has been rather defensive this game and seems to be playing pretty survivalistically as opposed to putting himself out there on reads.

Are you sheeping SPF or is Gypyx your strongest SR, as you said earlier?

Why can't it be both?
Like if you made a diagram of my Gypyx scumread sheeping SPF would be 33% but then the other 66% would be the original reasoning on my own that I've pointed out.
I find SPF to be quite town so her approval of Gypyx scum makes me feel more confident.

pings me slightly that cakez is piggybacking on my case on gypyx, knowing full well that i had moved gypyx to a "townlean" just last night

[staypositivefriend]

This is giving me some Xenoblade Cakez vibes. I'm pretty bad at making reads in these situations, but I think I'll iso Kanna later and talk with the team.

was xenoblade scum!cakez or town!cakez?

[staypositivefriend]

MURDERSUNNY - null leaning town
Gypyx - null leaning town
noraa - townlean
Zaiden - town
Pink Ball - townlean
Jingle - null
Something_Smart - null
Spring Breeze - scumlean
MariaR - null
PookyTheMagicalBear - townlean
SirCakez - null leaning town
Morning Tweet - townlean
PrivateI - scumlean
Jake The Wolfie scumlean
Gamma Emerald - null
midwaybear - townlean
Cheetory6 - town

Noting this for later.

sircakez directly took note of the post where i townleaned gypyx but then said that he was "sheeping" my read on him a few hours later e___e

[staypositivefriend]

VOTE: Spring Breeze

Time for a claim, no?
Here is my locked in, D1 solve:

{Cake, Spring Breeze, Maria, Jake}

this is not my exact solve, but all of these people are in my POE. in particular, spring breeze/jake are the two names i feel the most uneasy about right now.

i don't want to get ahead of myself, but if we live in a SB!scum world, i think jake's scum equity might increase slightly. i'll pursue that line of thinking tomorrow if SB is a hit and if i'm still here

the fact that our POEs are fairly similar is a positive sign for me that i'm on the right track

[staypositivefriend]

if we live in a SB!scum world, i think jake's scum equity might increase slightly

Jake has been very quiet about SB.

i could not find any direct references to SB in Jake's ISO

but i could find an example or two of SB broadly shading jake while simultaneously shielding him at the same time - which is how i would imagine sb!scum would treat her partner in a situation like this

[staypositivefriend]

Perhaps I will after I get more confidence.

pedit : i personally like monty's pythons, can we let him vibe for one day?

Yeah, I'm down.

Vote: Noraa

Might just be my unfamiliarity with Noraa, but I'm having trouble figuring out where she's coming from with her posts this far.

Also not overly liking Spring Breeze, but that's fine.

Cheeto is good.

Pedit: Cheeto may not be good oh no. Hm.

this post has already gotten a lot of heat, but this specific line is that one that bothers me the most. it distinctly feels like they

don't want

to out a read on spring breeze, but that they still feel obligated to do so. the wording of throwing shade on spring breeze while simultaneously invalidating their own read strikes me as really uncomfortable

if we live in a sb!scum world, this read i outed on private1 requires some more investigation

[staypositivefriend]

VOTE: jingle

p-edit: i understand that. but i'm still not understanding your original point? broken down, maria just says "everyone vote zaiden," some people do, and then she comes back and says "ok i can do jingle too" i'm not sure that's really indicative of anything and i certainly don't think scum can't do this?

my teammate petapan pointed out that there is a slight dissonance to spring breeze arguing with me that maria shouldn't be townread while simultaneously sheeping maria's vote on jingle, and i agree

in fairness, spring breeze did out concerns about jingle that were separate from maria's suspicions. however, i find it worrisome that maria gunning for one of SB's top scumreads did not seem to impact how SB was reading or perceiving maria

[staypositivefriend]

VOTE: jingle

p-edit: i understand that. but i'm still not understanding your original point? broken down, maria just says "everyone vote zaiden," some people do, and then she comes back and says "ok i can do jingle too" i'm not sure that's really indicative of anything and i certainly don't think scum can't do this?

my teammate petapan pointed out that there is a slight dissonance to spring breeze arguing with me that maria shouldn't be townread while simultaneously sheeping maria's vote on jingle, and i agree

in fairness, spring breeze did out concerns about jingle that were separate from maria's suspicions. however, i find it worrisome that maria gunning for one of SB's top scumreads did not seem to impact how SB was reading or perceiving maria

And one last thing that I couldn't categorize with something funny: SpringBreeze's concerns about Maria being so easily townread while joining Maria on Jingle's wagon amuses me.

And I wanted to make a sequel on the pocketing thing called

Pocketing 2: Electric Bogaloo

explaining how Spring's timing on her townread on Noraa was an attempt of pocketing her, like the same way you call Nancy town to get her townread and defend you

lol nice, i missed that you had pointed out the same thing

[staypositivefriend]

We've come a long way, SPF. It's nice to call you a townread. I told my team that I fucking hated to scumread you 'cause I'm a sucker for this kind of interactions:

What's being based? I looked it up and says that it originally meant to be addicted to crack cocaine

that's 100% what it means

They absolutely sound based then

Have you seen FL's avatar?

i just checked it and i am happy to see them meeting the based aesthetic

perfectly

They told be to stay strong, even when they were townleaning you, I'm the one playing this game and I had to convince myself. But it's pretty much obvious now that you're town.

i'm glad that we went on this journey together. i could comfortably call you one of my strongest townreads right now, and my head was in the opposite place approximately 72 hours ago

[staypositivefriend]

Gamma come commit to an SB read please

in a sec maybe
I'm not paying full attention to this rn

lol

[staypositivefriend]

i'm not dying today. that is all.

[staypositivefriend]

spring breeze's reaction is how a scum would react under this type of pressure. i find it completely NAI, if not outright suspicious

[staypositivefriend]

spring breeze's reaction is how a scum would react under this type of pressure. i find it completely NAI, if not outright suspicious

If it's something scum would do why is it NAI?

i was suggesting that spring breeze should not be townread for her softs, because while it's possible for town to soft like that, that type of soft also aligns very well with how mafia typically react to pressure & the threat of an imminent chop

however, upon further reflection, i do find her soft slightly scum-indicative. not sure if i'm capable of articulating why beyond the way she softed just feeling

icky

to me

[staypositivefriend]

@Zaiden - episode 2 of wonder egg priority was very strong! it wasn't quite on the same level as episode 1, but i absolutely love the path that the series has taken, and i think it has the potential to be one of the greatest of all time psychological animes

i find it funny that there's a solid chance that the show will have finished airing entirely by the time that this game is over

[staypositivefriend]

since i've caught up with the thread and given my responses/reads, i'll just say yesterday i was feeling pretty stressed with the game, but today i'm fairly at peace. me dying doesn't mean losing anyway, it's a team game. and also it's fine to lose anyhow. unless you all find a reason to trust me -- and i doubt that at this point -- it's best for me to leave the peach farm to go somewhere else. i was thinking the beach. and you guys can think about who are the bad guys pushing me.

for my claim, i'm nothing special actually, i'm a compulsive fruit vendor selling dixie red peaches. i read from an earlier post that was functionally a vt in this game. don't know if that's true or not, but it's not that useful anyhow. i did just want to hold the thread hostage so i had time to say things i wanted and it was stressful for everyone to suddenly push me. but yeah, that's all!

no, i will not be self voting.

admittedly, spring breeze's claim looks towny in a vacuum

the issue is that i struggle to see the town intent behind hard softing a PR, knowing full well that it could give mafia information based on the way people reacted to it, only to retract the soft and claim a vanilla-esque role

it seems anti-town at best

i will say that my confidence in a SB scum world got shook a little bit, but i just dont understand how anybody playing from a town mindset would make that kind of play

[staypositivefriend]

I'm literally the only one who thinks she's town and she's clearly not having fun getting piled on by everyone.

Who's scum Pooky?

probly SPF + Zaiden + 2 people lurking off wagon

youre probably 0/2

[staypositivefriend]

noraa upgraded from townlean to townread btw

[staypositivefriend]

admittedly, spring breeze's claim looks towny in a vacuum

the issue is that i struggle to see the town intent behind hard softing a PR, knowing full well that it could give mafia information based on the way people reacted to it, only to retract the soft and claim a vanilla-esque role

it seems anti-town at best

i will say that my confidence in a SB scum world got shook a little bit, but i just dont understand how anybody playing from a town mindset would make that kind of play

like this first line:

"townie in a vacuum" is saying its townie, but only without the other things

then you go into "townie intent" but what's the scum intent?

Why can't she just be frustrated with the game state and being screamed at and just wanted people to give her some space to gather her thoughts?

anti-town at best the third line, its like saying its kanna's fault for messing up the way she claimed so even if she flips green here it's not your fault for mis-reading her, it's her fault for messing up here claim.

the final line is more hedging - and saying you can't see how a townie mindset could play like this as if the qualifier is on her to play to an exact townie model.

like people are people.

people are not robots.

people do not play exactly the correct line of play every time.

especially someone sensitive like Kanna who is getting attacked with unrelenting pressure.

So I don't see how you can be this unsympathetic and not see how she could possibly mess up.

i don't know why you're accusing me of being unsympathetic toward kanna for pointing out that her actions are objectively anti-town regardless of her alignment

and no, anti-town does not always = scum. it's possible for SB to be town that genuinely just wanted to get the pressure off of her, and that's something i acknowledge. i empathize with the position of having a lot of pressure on you and feeling the need to pull it off

but which answer requires the least amount of assumptions?

1. SB is scum that decided to hard soft PR under pressure because she thought it would look towny

2. SB is town that decided to hard soft PR under pressure because she was annoyed at the pressure on her and she wanted people to back off?

2 is a possibility, but it requires significantly more logical hoops to jump through to understand the mindset - whereas 1 is the obvious explanation that's true in

most

scenarios like this

i'm willing to consider kanna as town, but i'm not going to townread her for doing something town-indicative, or just because i feel bad for the pressure she's under

the burden of proof is on you to explain why this type of mindset is town indicative, rather than explaining why the mindset MIGHT come from town

[staypositivefriend]

and why can't she be scum collasping under pressure and playing incoherently

Do you think town!kanna could possibly play like this?

I'm not even arguing my townread of her anymore. I'm arguing with the fact SPF is saying there's no way a town player could play this way.

i didn't say that. i did say that the type of mindset behind SB's claim is

difficult

for me to understand from a town mindset

[staypositivefriend]

the burden of proof is on you to explain why this type of mindset is town indicative, rather than explaining why the mindset MIGHT come from town

I didn't say it was town indicative.

I'm saying the way you are framing this feels very political - as if you are trying to excuse her green flip on her misplay rather than you mis-reading her.

that's not what i'm doing. if she is a green flip, then i fully own up & acknowledge to misreading her, and it wouldn't be her fault

[staypositivefriend]

even if sb is scum, i don't think that noraa's defense is scum-motivated

[staypositivefriend]

something i'd be interested in hearing from the SB defenders is simply: if SB is not the chop today, who would you like the chop to be?

this seems like a more productive thing to focus on than arguing over the particulars of whether or not SB's claim was scum-indicative

for the sake of answering my own question, i would probably chop jake, gamma, and cakez in that order

[staypositivefriend]

Wait why did we wagon obv town while I was gone hello idk not my problem will try to read Tonight if I’m up for it

We could flip this you know

do u think this is a miselim?

[staypositivefriend]

do u think this is a miselim?

I trust Pooky. I want the info from flipping Kanna, but I think there is a good chance Pooky is right.

who would you wanna chop if we didn't chop SB today?

the main issue i'm having is that i'm not seeing any of the SB defenders propose alternatives - feels like a lot of hemming and hawing over the potential for SB to flip town without an attempt to shift the momentum elsewhere

also, if we do live in a cakez!scum world, it would give me town equity because cakez has been piggybacking off of my reads for a lot of today, but i won't go too far into arguing theoretical

[staypositivefriend]

i do think that pooky and noraa's defense of SB are both towny

[staypositivefriend]

probly better for her anyway

this town doesn't deserve kanna

it deserves misery and toxicitiy and pain

i will literally murder people on this wagon until i find the red one

this is pretty extra

[staypositivefriend]

compulsive fruit vendor selling dixie red peaches

Stop this wagon asap. I'm 99% sure this claim is real.

compulsive fruit vendor selling dixie red peaches

Stop this wagon asap. I'm 99% sure this claim is real.

DONT ASK WHY BUT I AM PRETTY SURE THIS IS REAL

It could be a fakeclaim provided by the moderation team, nor nor.

do ~you~ think that it's a fakeclaim?

is this all you have to say about SB?

[staypositivefriend]

VOTE: SB

i thought she was obvious town?

[staypositivefriend]

if that was actually the hammer then i would just like to emphatically state that i'm gay

[staypositivefriend]

pink ball
noraa
cheetory
zaiden
midwaybear
pooky
murdersunny
morning tweet
gypyx
jingle
something_smart
mariaR
sircakez
private1
gamma emerald
jake

roughly where i've landed. i'm sure i'm misreading a couple of people here, but that's standard for d1