TM 2021 Large Normal: OEIS Mafia (Part Two Is Out)

[Cephrir]

Hi

VOTE: dannflor

[Cephrir]

the pig has landed

@ceph r u still an active member of the nrg? asking for a friend

no

Comment was related to my vote on IV, thought it was evident

hmm I did a few things irl between seeing your IV vote and reading that, so I may have just context failed. I'm pretty tired. Actually my post read as snippier than my brain was trying to be.

Better counterpoint: IV is addicted to saying cute nonsense. This daystart is absolutely typical of IV as either alignment. Has anything else he's done struck you as alignment indicative or just the fluffy comments?

Someone on my team agrees with you btw (but I haven't asked for their reasoning yet)

this game got to meta defenses quickly

i like dannflor so far, so i should vote someone else
VOTE: the worst

[Cephrir]

i know i should probably wait until i catch up all the way and trim some of this a bit, but i'm not like in danger of contributing too much at the moment so suck it up

ok Datisi scumreads me like every game at this point lmaoooo

lame excuse

town: hercule, Dannflor, AGar

conflicted: the worst/Daddisi hydra

scum: VOTE: unwnd

Why is unwnd scum?

nvm i don't really scumread unwnd yet

but i will be watching u closely sir

i guess i want to understand what happened here, IV? this is just a very weird sequence of events to me

I do think the worst has been awkward and is deserving of votes, would vote for him and IV at this point. Not necessarily both together

VOTE: Dunnstral

choosing this moment right after being prodded by dunn to go after him didn't really resonate w me; also feels a bit like a chainsaw

I do think the worst has been awkward and is deserving of votes, would vote for him and IV at this point. Not necessarily both together

VOTE: Dunnstral

Explain

hmm maybe part of it was me thinking the "not necessarily both together" was a bit awkward LOL

i get having to go back and figure out what you were thinking at a given moment but it was like 2 posts ago? why are we "hmm maybe if we interpret the entrails this way" ing about an opinion that you literally just posted

can you expand on what you mean about the opening? my issue shouldn't be history dependent unless you have an in joke you're talking about

I rolled scum in JV and I's first game on site. The Worst replaced in and it came down to us three in ELo and I won. Since then they've had like a revenge thing where they want to roll scum together in a game against me. Good times.

As for why I townlean ABR at the moment: He voted Dannflor immediately after Dann voted Ythan, which is exactly what I would have done had I been active at that point in the game. That was my initial reaction.

The flaw with this is that ABR may not have been voting Dann for that exact reason, but I'm happy to assume it unless he says otherwise.

that's a really fast townlean for noticing something that would obviously stand out as weird to anybody regardless of their role pm color

It strikes me a bit odd that you ask about those two things but not the one where I'm practically hard accusing someone of having a scummy opening to the game?

+Partner Equity for Hopkirk and Almost50, everyone.

Not that I particularly think Hop is being scummy at the moment, but ye.

yes, let's start doing unflipped associatives on page 8

[Cephrir]

It feels like you're making this up as you go along and tacking on whatever reason to scumread me

i am, is that scummy?

y... yes?

Dunnstral mega town off of this interaction.

UNVOTE: Dunnstral

im willing to do this but can you explain how you got "megatown"?

after that whole exchange, someone else's opinion is the thing that gets you to unvote? what

ythan town

From what I understand, IV likes being town. His best option if he's not town is to lead with nonsense and then assume someone town reads him by his gestures; this can include fluffy nonsense. The way he convinced himself that you were scummy did not sit right for me.

this might actually be a real thought because this is exactly what I tried to do to (while pocketing the worst) in Mini 2160! but i can't do that anymore, it only works once. im curious as to how you know me so well... my towngames you've seen me in were pretty different

pedit: what are you confused/thinking about?

what on earth does the likelihood of this thought being real have to do with you happening to have done that in some other game

are you some sort of space alien i don't get these processes

[Cephrir]

1: It's a vanity.

2: I haven't commented on any of the others slots that have really been under pressure this game yet (Hercule, Innocent)

3: No-one else has called much attention to the slot yet.

I think with these facts alone, it's at least a reasonable assumption to think you'd take SOME interest in it, is it not?

it really isn't and this whole line of attack was bizarre

I'm sensing that there's a disconnect between us that might be boiled down to more of a miscommunication than anything.

Do you have any thoughts on A50 as of right now, or no?

but, this transition from seeming to care about this issue and think it was an important point to "lol miscommunication" (which i don't think it was) was the thing that actually pinged me rather than just being strange

[Cephrir]

Hi. Uncrowned here.

Ythan is Town.

ABR is probably Town.

Dunnstral is probably Town.

Hopkirk's reasoning on JV's intro is reasonable, but I believe it is NAI for JV given the history between them, myself and The Worst.

I don't think a teammate reading the game is indicative of anything, but I guess I get the sentiment?

I don't think The Worst has been that awkward, I think that's just how he be sometimes.

Can you either post on the Uncrowned account or officially sub in on this one? Doing what you're doing now might seriously fuck up my VCA.

oh no, heaven forbid

[Cephrir]

how are you reading Ythan and DGB @Herc?

I don't see the townreads on Ythan that others have suggested, they're firmly in my POE. I'm on page 9 of reading the thread, if DGB hasn't posted anything else then I would just put them as null atm

you have a POE on page 10?

[Cephrir]

i'm baffled as to how dgb thinks she has anything here the reactions she's gotten haven't read scummy to me at all

[Cephrir]

IV

You still have nervous energy

The best way I would further describe what seems to be wrong with you is that you believe solving to be a catch-all towntell, but it's like

Page 10? What necessity is there to solve on page 10. Changing your mind or seeming like 'oh man, I'm just so worried about everything!' does not make you town

If you are town, stop forcing yourself to do things thanks

bro what are you even talking about lol

This feels like a very awkward response to what I read as a very genuine towny reach out. Personally, that's not how I would react to something like unwnd's post and innocent villager's response here seems devoid of actually trying to understand unwnd or really dig deeper into the reasons people are sorting IV as scummy

I suppose there is something to be said for not taking the easy olive branch, but on the whole it feels more dismissive than anything else, which doesn't really feel like a town approach to the game in general but certainly not this sort of attempted engagement

why are you analyzing this reaction in isolation without at all commenting on the followup conversation we had? what did you think of that?

i genuinely think what unwnd said in that particular post was confusing and i was saying, albeit in a bit of a snippy way, that his accusation was not making sense

that isn't what you said at all? you specifically were questioned about this and said you genuinely didn't understand him, and that's different from the accusation not making sense
(i'm also very lost as to how that completely plain english post apparently was hard to understand)

[Cephrir]

so my process is usually just ordering and re-ordering the player list until I have tiers I am comfortable with, aka locktown, think they're town, have said towny things, all the way down to scummy. and then just re-evaluating it and re-evaluating it and building consensus / bouncing my ordering off others

i'm comfortable writing this off as a stylistic/terminology thing i guess

[Cephrir]

i'm baffled as to how dgb thinks she has anything here the reactions she's gotten haven't read scummy to me at all

this now applies to both hercule and hopkirk

[Cephrir]

VOTE: IV

[Cephrir]

so my process is usually just ordering and re-ordering the player list until I have tiers I am comfortable with, aka locktown, think they're town, have said towny things, all the way down to scummy. and then just re-evaluating it and re-evaluating it and building consensus / bouncing my ordering off others

i'm comfortable writing this off as a stylistic/terminology thing i guess

ok well can you explain to me what originally made you ask and what I said that made you consider the matter resolved? I'm still not fully clear here

ill be honest with you sometimes i just poke at things i think are weird without knowing what im expecting to accomplish by doing so. i dont usually have a plan in mind.

i now understand that what you mean is kind of like a readlist, which is to me a much more normal thing to have this early in the game, with an extra step

[Cephrir]

hahah oh boy more votes

im not as easy to miseliminate as i was before, sorry scum

mark your fucking days

okay, who are the scum voting you then?

[Cephrir]

am i not allowed to give gut reads and then come up with a reason afterwards to potentially explain why i might've had that read? this is to everyone who has been like "omg, you didn't explain your read progression from A->B->C, i can't follow, scum!"

i don't know why this is so defensive when it could be worded as an explanation, but my comment on it is, if that's what happened why didn't you say so sooner?

[Cephrir]

i don't really think about it in that way necessarily

i townread unwnd, Dannflor so I don't necessarily mind their votes?

i don't townread you, Ceph, Dunnstral (conflicted on him will have to reread, but i feel like i should have an opinion there maybe idk)

so maybe i don't like you, Ceph, or Dunnstral 's votes because I don't townread any of you? idk what you're looking for here exactly

saying "scum are trying to mislim me" is very, very easy to come up with (and also not particularly valid, it's like the first wagon in a large game and nowhere near dangerously large at this point)
if you don't have concerns about any specific votes, then it seems all the more like something you're saying just to say it and not a real thought process. think this line of questioning makes complete sense my dude

[Cephrir]

I am tired of being townread

I'm officially playing this game like a shithead

Just realized I need advice on how to do this

Please advise

pretend to be firebringer

[Cephrir]

nice, got one, just need a few more and it'll be easy sailing to endgame

[Cephrir]

VOTE: AGar

i don't know if i'd have been bothered by this if unwnd didn't point it out but new york's hottest scumpost is 506. this post has everything:

-complaining about post count
-pointless filler that also randomly drops the only thing he's cared about thus far
-overreaction to titus
-useless nonanalysis on unwnd that turns into a suspicion for some reason
-a MYSTERY VOTE

ceph, i hate to ask, but what's a mystery vote
well seth, that's when you vote ABR without having ever mentioned him before anywhere in your iso for no apparent reason.

[Cephrir]

i just want to preempt whatever clever genius swoops in here to make a very insightful post about wagon speed and empty votes and tell them to eat my ass

[Cephrir]

are you hitting on me dannflor

[Cephrir]

...SPEEDRUN?

Can we do this on A50 instead?

Welp, until you all see the light...

VOTE: AGar

A50 has certainly posted a whole bunch of worthless tripe, but why are you so convinced he's scum for it?

[Cephrir]

JV you SLing me here is a very bad look. Want to explain that?

he did

that was actually maybe the only good thing in his post

[Cephrir]

Why Agar, I just checked the last page and holy fuck it's either they slipped heavily or something happened haha

I dared call ABR scum, presumably. Otherwise I got to 8 votes because a bunch of people don't know what they're doing.

i wish i had a doublevote for this lmao.

[Cephrir]

That is not an explanation.

Page 1-10 also includes Me/Hopkirk interaction, does it not? Why no mention of anything there?

I'm not accepting that as a good explanation for a weak SL on me.

it's a better explanation than the one you just gave for your a50 read

this isn't the first time you've taken issue with someone for not talking about something you did and i wonder how many times you'll have to do this before you realize not everyone thinks the same way

[Cephrir]

wouldn't that be a good thing though

[Cephrir]

Did you read my original vote on A50?

And I think you're missing the point. I'm not taking issue with the fact they're not talking about something I did, it's the fact that they're cherrypicking things that make no sense if you just read a few posts forward. There's a difference.

i just reread it.

have you played with a50 before?

[Cephrir]

VOTE: AGar

i don't know if i'd have been bothered by this if unwnd didn't point it out but new york's hottest scumpost is 506. this post has everything:

-complaining about post count
-pointless filler that also randomly drops the only thing he's cared about thus far
-overreaction to titus
-useless nonanalysis on unwnd that turns into a suspicion for some reason
-a MYSTERY VOTE

ceph, i hate to ask, but what's a mystery vote
well seth, that's when you vote ABR without having ever mentioned him before anywhere in your iso for no apparent reason.

Hi scum!

I'll pull this apart, because you basically scum-claimed here:

- I 'complained' about post count, partially as a joke, and partially because I do it literally every game now once it hits a point of explosion because the site meta has shifted to pointless spam posting and I will old man at cloud this shit as much as I can.
- Dann's answer way back on Page 4 was not really of import at that point, but I felt it important to acknowledge it because it was the last thing I had commented on. He's acquitted himself relatively fine since then.
- No, my reaction to Titus was perfectly appropriate. I didn't realize Titus was on the playerlist during signups. I do not feel Titus takes a single thing I say in good faith and she proved that. I simply called that how I see it. That's called history. But jump to that defense there!
- Clearly I thought my apparently useless nonanalysis on unwnd was a little more meritous, hence the suspicion. Can you even keep up?
- My ISO was basically barren so literally any vote was going to be what you call a "MYSTERY VOTE" so you can just admit you've been waiting for me to post to set this one up and I'll say "it's ok, I'm sorry for your obvious scumplay."

The ABR vote and feelers were specifically to maybe hopefully coax something out of ABR considering he's been the quietest person in this thread wrt what is few posts actually say. I've literally never seen this from ABR and it's the antithesis to his bloated ego to sit back and let someone else dictate a gamestate.

Anyways, my policy is to vote scum when scum claims.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Cephrir

funny post. did you get some coaching to suddenly act confident or something?

- I 'complained' about post count, partially as a joke, and partially because I do it literally every game now once it hits a point of explosion because the site meta has shifted to pointless spam posting and I will old man at cloud this shit as much as I can.

What makes you think I know this and am thus scum?

- Dann's answer way back on Page 4 was not really of import at that point, but I felt it important to acknowledge it because it was the last thing I had commented on. He's acquitted himself relatively fine since then.

I don't care

- No, my reaction to Titus was perfectly appropriate. I didn't realize Titus was on the playerlist during signups. I do not feel Titus takes a single thing I say in good faith and she proved that. I simply called that how I see it. That's called history. But jump to that defense there!

What makes you think I know this and am thus scum?

- Clearly I thought my apparently useless nonanalysis on unwnd was a little more meritous, hence the suspicion. Can you even keep up?

And I'm here to tell you that "wtf is this" isn't meritous (is that even a word) of a scumread, nor is it helpful to anyone else.

- My ISO was basically barren so literally any vote was going to be what you call a "MYSTERY VOTE" so you can just admit you've been waiting for me to post to set this one up and I'll say "it's ok, I'm sorry for your obvious scumplay.

Haha, what? You didn't explain it in 506 either, that was my problem, so I looked back to see if there was some trajectory and there wasn't. The idea that I have built a master plan to frame you specifically is pretty hard to swallow as a real thought.

The ABR vote and feelers were specifically to maybe hopefully coax something out of ABR considering he's been the quietest person in this thread wrt what is few posts actually say. I've literally never seen this from ABR and it's the antithesis to his bloated ego to sit back and let someone else dictate a gamestate.

Great, so why not say that instead of calling me scum for not reading your mind?

[Cephrir]

Like JV probably knows I'm easier to read off of interactions as well so that's why it weirds me out that they'd pick *that* post to talk about of all things.

PEdit: I have not played with A50 before, I believe.

Regrettably, he does this a lot

I don't care for it either but unfortunately I don't think it's useful for divining his alignment

[Cephrir]

if we're going to start townreading people for omgusing i might as well just quit

[Cephrir]

VOTE: AGar

VOTE: agar

VOTE: agar

There's almost 100% scum in this three

Why?

[Cephrir]

i don't agree, but okay

[Cephrir]

Day was shit to begin with, I'm going bye

idk why you're so upset about like one scumread

[Cephrir]

help, i have to write a short paper on early psychologists and i'm writing it like i'm trying to explain my townread on alfred adler and my scumread on freud

[Cephrir]

what's the scum motivation there? I think A50 is a strong slot right

Uhh no, that's not right

[Cephrir]

Are they secretly launchbait?

it's not a secret

[Cephrir]

after the pages i missed i think i'm leaning town on hopkirk hercule and ythan. i find ythan's posts confusing and think he's wrong but i don't see much scum incentive to be so pointlessly contrary about nothing

i probably shouldn't townread unwnd yet but im vibing with his takes

kind of amazed agar just dipped after that one post who does that

[Cephrir]

i always find a50 strange and my plan was to ignore him

[Cephrir]

ceph you need to go back to the animated avatar

im getting very grumpy vibes from you

how dare u im a sweetheart and a national treasure

[Cephrir]

FOSes are so like classically seen as scummy it's almost brave to use them at this point

[Cephrir]

Hmm. I'm torn between liking those agar posts and feeling like they're exactly what I would advise scum to do to get out of this wagon (back off, provide some analysis, go after someone else). Inclined to chill and see what else develops for a hot second.

[Cephrir]

He's on a team who would be able to make a post like that

Remember when we used to have to actually read what people said? Nowadays I just can just pick out alignment based on timing/delivery of posts

It's great

Honestly I hate it. It's just disappointing watching scum just open their role pm and quit. I'm hoping team mafia will give us a challenge.

But yeah, it doesn't escape me that that team would probably be able to offer good advice.

[Cephrir]

586 from Titus is weird. At no point did I suggest Titus and ABR in any connection. Very weird extrapolation to pull from any of my posts that I specifically wanted them to "turn on each other." I tried to get some votes on ABR, but didn't opine to Titus for those, and I strictly took one shot at Titus because of history. Again, never appealed to ABR to vote Titus (which would've been weird as I was voting him).

This is weird, I'll give you that.

I can iso her with this stuff in mind later.

[Cephrir]

I want bothered by the missing titus vote at all - why is it scummy and not just a mistake anyone could make?

[Cephrir]

I'm on the fence about how much to say but my team are like assertively undecided on AGar but I don't think I really have an opportunity to advance my read on him atp

i prefer this to forgetting about it. i don't wanna be like, party's moving to the next house let's forget this ever happened, but that seems to be where the thread is headed.

[Cephrir]

yeah reading titus up to this point leaves me pretty unimpressed but i don't feel the need to vote it right this second

[Cephrir]

that seems more related to my personality than my alignment but sry u don't like it

[Cephrir]

this isn't really relevant to the game but i have a lot of issues with being perceived as negative when im actually quite happy irl too

it's kind of annoying and i'd like to change it

[Cephrir]

get a cute anime girl avatar and your whole perception will change is all im saying

when u sad posted in baton pass with the animated lion king character, it was very funny and read like a shitposter

but with this darkened realistic warthog that gives the vibes of isolation and loneliness, everything is so depressing

it feels like this year may have taken a toll on you or smth

but ya i mean i do think avatars influence how we're perceived at a subconscious level maybe thats why i've been getting townread less recently

[Cephrir]

does this form please you goofy chicken man

[Cephrir]

u guys r tearing me apart

[Cephrir]

Mmk. So what do you make of her ISO is actively just avoiding addressing literally anything that has occurred outside of me. I feel like you can muster up more than "unimpressed".

I mean, I could give you a PBPA of why I'm unimpressed, but you kinda already laid that out. I don't see her making much of a real attempt at solving so far. I'm keenly aware though that I really don't understand Titus particularly well. She's not someone I'm super worried about deepwolfing though.

[Cephrir]

JV 1016- I see how you can interpret hercule's first couple posts as manipulative to the end of "look at me i'm town" but i think it gets a little confbiased after that because i can't find that same thing everywhere you're seeing it
I am already kinda thinking Winter might be scum, although this post gets so far into the weeds it gets hard for me to follow.

i am semi-consciously trying to find JV as town i think because there seems to be a fair amount of consensus on him for not that much reason. i think i still am just landing on null. i don't think the scum response to their first catchup not working well is to do another one of the same content, but that could just be them freezing up a bit and not knowing how to engage with the game. watch this space?

[Cephrir]

And even if you're basing this entirely off PYP I don't think my play this game has been *that* far off how I played there. Sure, in that game I was a bit more analytical but that's also a given as I hadn't played Mafia for almost a year. As I'm quite a few games in now since coming back, the style is bound to change and I have been experimenting with being more aggressive/blunt.

this is the type of excuse scum posts, i think
at least, i see me-scum doing stuff like this

I'm on the fence about how much to say but my team are like assertively undecided on AGar but I don't think I really have an opportunity to advance my read on him atp

i prefer this to forgetting about it. i don't wanna be like, party's moving to the next house let's forget this ever happened, but that seems to be where the thread is headed.

I still think that everybody jumping on them was preemptive/based on what is nai for him

And we haven't moved on from that

They had a good post, the vote thing is nitpicking, saying his team could make that post is true but there's no evidence for it, and the original argument wasn't convincing to me

can you help me see 506 as nai, i still think it's a scumpost. feel free to rebut 510 since i didn't find his rebuttal very convincing
i did think the wagon had fallen apart a bit more than it actually has.

I'd contest that isn't a read but I kinda agree a lot of the more vocal disagreements don't feel particularly manipulative (agar/Titus feels like it has the strongest chance of red atm)

how about like actual player reads? townreads can be hot too

idk if i have any hottake reads because i suspect most the playerlist might have at most 5 ish reads that aren't outside the bounds of null and there is nowhere near enough consensus

maybe something random like ceph could be scum

so I'm back & forth on ceph but someone in my team super heavily townreads him. he's also posting a tonne better than he did in a marathon game I was in with him when he was scum - but I also have a fair bit of respect for his like gamestate comprehension & ability to post confidently so I'm biting my tongue a bit there.

who are the 5 outside null reads as you see them? who should we be reconsidering or bumping up/down outside of there?

hi can you expand on your back & forth on Ceph and/or your team mate's uber town read on him?

My personal feeling that's been shared by Jingle is that Ceph has posted enough content where I feel like I should have a decent handle on his alignment by now but I 'm really just coming up with a big cloud of nothing and I can't figure out if that's just a fault with my reading skills or it says something about Ceph's alignment

you did see that i put a smile on the warthog right? that's the towntell of the century

I'll be reading up tomorrow but I have a solid TR on ABR based on his wagon placement here. If I wasn't voting Agar, I would be voting the worst.

can you explain what you mean by abr's wagon placement - just that he is not on a relevant wagon? does that diverge from your expectations of his scum game? why would you be voting the worst?
i'm kind of worried you might be scum. this is me trying to engage with you even though engagement is not usually my thing, sorry in advance if it becomes too much pressure

[Cephrir]

i did really like agar backing off me ill admit. i was thinking of asking his teammates to look at the interaction if he was town because i was so sure they'd tell him he was overreacting and then it happened without my prompting

[Cephrir]

the one thing that keeps pinging me about hercule is him posting LMAO after comments that aren't funny
i know this is stupid, shut up

[Cephrir]

you know, it's probably not a bad idea to take LAMIST as a scumtell for site meta health because we keep getting deepwolfed and our games are exhausting, we could just make everyone cut it out LOL

you guys are going to make me look up what lamist means again aren't you
i have to every time it comes up and somehow i never remember

i did really like agar backing off me ill admit. i was thinking of asking his teammates to look at the interaction if he was town because i was so sure they'd tell him he was overreacting and then it happened without my prompting

to play devil's advocate, do you think that scum!agar's teammates would also tell him to back off?

yes, absolutely, which is why i'm hesitant to write the whole thing off

[Cephrir]

oh ye.
it seems to go in and out of fashion here which is why i still can't remember it despite my join date

[Cephrir]

I see. I think the only game I've played with both of you you were both on my scumteam and busted the shit out of each other.

[Cephrir]

Bussed*

[Cephrir]

can you explain what you mean by abr's wagon placement - just that he is not on a relevant wagon? does that diverge from your expectations of his scum game? why would you be voting the worst?
i'm kind of worried you might be scum. this is me trying to engage with you even though engagement is not usually my thing, sorry in advance if it becomes too much pressure

Answered in a reply to Dann.

is it? i don't see this

[Cephrir]

oh, i mean the last q is, but i was more interested in the first few

[Cephrir]

I will try to increase the frequency at which I'm vibrating so yall can hear it better

[Cephrir]

i like 426 (i'm biased) but why did you like our reactions?

i don't know if i actively liked them so much as didn't think they were the flailings of caught scum like she seemed to think, if i'm remembering correctly

[Cephrir]

510 seems overly dramatic to me in hindsight and having read Agar's ISO. I feel like "new york's hottest scumpost" is making it out to be scummier than it is, though I understand the SR

i was trying to do a bit here but it doesn't seem to have landed

[Cephrir]

Maybe it's my own impatience but I've mulling over my vote on AGar and came to my own conclusion he isn't going to respond. The game has changed and so too is the way I read most players. Back in the day I'd come through their words to spot contradictions but I find scum nowadays don't really give a shit about making convincing arguments, no, it's more about the presentation. Something that makes townies go 'well, by effort and substantiation he must be town!' because people have gotten so traumatized by a red PM these days and believe scum just won't effort as much as town that it's almost bordering ridiculous. I am against this mindset because it assumes that people enjoy losing, which I'm pretty sure if you're playing any game the objective is to win.

This vote is something almost all of my team agree on. I don't really bode well with (post) (post) (post) analysis and instead giving a general description of what I see. As for what I see? I sorta let it slide but there was a moment where Hopkirk responded to me saying '

i kinda like to work list up and then down first, getting townreads

'. This is fine in practice, yet he remained quite passive-aggressive. I also think that line alone is disingenuous but is playing a part of his style right now, which all seems quite excessive to me. I think Hopkirk in that instance only responded that way because it sounded good, not that he really believed it. If his MO was to look for townies and form townblocks, then what is his explanation of splintered ridicule throughout the ISO. The shift in dynamic doesn't bode with his own words. Go look at the way he silver tongues Hercule then ridicules others. This is not paraphrasing but this man really said 'don't like it when there's consequence for your actions, huh?' It's all based on

proving a point

which is both petty and scummy.

It'd be really easy and really lazy to say 'he is being LAMISTy' but seriously that's boring and using umbrella terms like that caution back to the days where people would do things like Why me = Fry me. Mafia Jargon doesn't make someone scum guys, and I actually think scum are more prone to be lazy about their reads because it's pretty difficult to try and convince people.

what does the bolded part mean? that's not a quote and it makes 0 sense
wtf? passive agressive? i'm actively aggressive to anyone bad enough to call me scum. how exactly are you calling me passive aggressive then going on to reference my active aggression
your whole team?

does that include Menalaque?

this is an important question. going to want to hear exactly what each of them are thinking rather some coward-ass hiding behind your 'team' bullshit
the ridicule i deliver is highly deserved, designed to reveal the pathetic who would cower behind their mediocrity.

although i couldn't entirely follow unwnd's point i can't stand this post

[Cephrir]

jeez idk ive played like 1 game with hopkirk but i thought he was kinda lighthearted and funny all the time so this sudden anger is pretty jarring for me and i don't want to piss him off more because i get uncomfortable with confrontation but i gotta admit i had the same gut reaction as dgb

[Cephrir]

Cephrir if you had my vote who would you want me to place it on

Well, naturally, I'm voting the person I most want to vote. But pressuring hopkirk is something I'd be more likely to do with your vote than my own so he'd yell at you and not me. :p

[Cephrir]

jeez idk ive played like 1 game with hopkirk but i thought he was kinda lighthearted and funny all the time so this sudden anger is pretty jarring for me and i don't want to piss him off more because i get uncomfortable with confrontation but i gotta admit i had the same gut reaction as dgb

which game are you talking about? last year's team mafia right? what do you remember about my play that game?

Yes.

Not that much except that your opening here was in character and unsurprising to me; I feel like most of that game followed a similar path to where you started here and I remember town leaning you pretty much the whole time we were both alive.

[Cephrir]

jeez idk ive played like 1 game with hopkirk but i thought he was kinda lighthearted and funny all the time so this sudden anger is pretty jarring for me and i don't want to piss him off more because i get uncomfortable with confrontation but i gotta admit i had the same gut reaction as dgb

which game are you talking about? last year's team mafia right? what do you remember about my play that game?

Yes.

Not that much except that your opening here was in character and unsurprising to me; I feel like most of that game followed a similar path to where you started here and I remember town leaning you pretty much the whole time we were both alive.

so last year i went on many long drunked rants where i was telling everyone who was voting for me that they were bad at the game while swearing at them a lot
then you voted me off, i flipped town, then you flipped my top scumread the next day and we won
you don't remember that? it feels memorable. i got very drunk and angry.

oh that sounds vaguely familiar i guess

[Cephrir]

im actually somewhat comfortable with inviting ceph in as well and we both mutually townread him too

okapok, hercule, unwnd, hopkirk, ceph what are the odds any of us are scum

there's always a chance
probably a lower chance than if you took a random swipe at the playerlist tho

[Cephrir]

i do wonder if unwnd has a good scum game i guess but i don't really think this is the game where we find out

[Cephrir]

i was townreading unwnd until today and i'm voting them without necessarily scumreading them right now. i want to review that slot. i'm very concerned with their team as much as i am with the slot right now.

i think ur just mad bro

[Cephrir]

hopkirk, i guess, bc yes im townreading oka and havent said so until this moment

[Cephrir]

if anypne's wondering oka feels very engaged and sincere and like, the game i remember with him i thought he might be too scummy to be scum and he was actually scum, so i'm a bit dubious about his ability to fake the just like, happy lighthearted mood that radiates from his posts

[Cephrir]

if anypne's wondering oka feels very engaged and sincere and like, the game i remember with him i thought he might be too scummy to be scum and he was actually scum, so i'm a bit dubious about his ability to fake the just like, happy lighthearted mood that radiates from his posts

yea oka is towny as fuck

i was wondering tbh yeah

so it's mostly just a tonal read?

on my end, yeah, i suppose so. he's solving, too.

[Cephrir]

Just to scare you guys I am capable of faking laziness as scum and making posts like this (and bad cases)

But Ceph is right this is not the game

me too :3

[Cephrir]

VOTE: winter flakes

[Cephrir]

Yeah my townlist looks like

Ceph
ABR
Oka
Hercule
(A50)

the only one here that makes my gut sink is ABR - why?

possibly because it's a surprising inclusion
i was surprised, anyway

[Cephrir]

*convenes*

what are we convening about

[Cephrir]

*convenes*

what are we convening about

Tenet just ended, does this affect anything?

I guess you were scum so you knew everything anyway. Also that game is a good reason for me to have you at null and not a townread right now (which is honestly where I have you anyway, because while I like reading your posts I'm not seeing anything that is out of range for scum)

yeah nothing is news to me here <_<

that's totally valid of you and i respect it.

[Cephrir]

Do you think unwnd looks similar here to how he played in that game?

What about me?

Those are the big ones I think

no, i guess, he was doing more like giant ass solving posts in that game and putting effort up to 11, but i think he's town here anyway.

it doesn't really have much impact on my opinion of you, i'd say you feel similar if i had to choose yes or no but i have no reason for that at all.

[Cephrir]

honestly like, given my history, probably no one should townread me ever. i'm a very good scum player and i've had quite a number of outstanding games. but that sucks and would make me not want to play mafia anymore so please don't do that.

[Cephrir]

i was thinking about actually looking at the game that IV linked. disentangling charisma from towniness is really hard and i don't know if i believe i'm especially good at it.

[Cephrir]

can we take a peak

[Cephrir]

You have 9 people as strong townreads and it feels fake

i also can't fathom how anyone could get to a townread on several of them

[Cephrir]

[Cephrir]

Ignore my TRs. Do you agree DGB this isn't Town!DGB who played in the most recent Baker's game or not?

i wasn't even in that game!

[Cephrir]

so is it likely that AGar is town based on wagon movement? has that been discussed yet?

I don't believe in this and this is me shading you for giving it the time of day

[Cephrir]

anyone saying unwnd/hopkirk has unwnd coming out as more townie after that interaction is nuts

Hopkirk ++town for that

[Cephrir]

What can I say but lol. You're flailing here.

FWIW I wouldn't mind a more serious response to her rebuttal because I'm too lazy to study the conversation and figure out who's right

[Cephrir]

i'm nuts, apparently

[Cephrir]

so basically we are wagoning xtoxm for being wrong and then kind of moving the goalposts instead of admitting to being wrong (15-20 in his iso, particularly 19-20 being scummy posts)? at least that's what i'm getting from it?

[Cephrir]

I think Hopkirk is really scum and the more people keep calling him town the more it brings me to action

Well, then?

[Cephrir]

My main scumhunting comes from looking at how players react to pressure and after AGar I feel like scum have been controlling the game state and keeping us from consolidating. My POE is large. Who wants my vote?

If people were wondering why I was townreading ABR it is the post above as I am completely in agreement lol

this statement by ABR doesn't read as real or it's just underdeveloped

I don't really know what either of you mean when you say it.

I don't feel that consolidation is something we're having trouble with? It feels like there's quite a few consensus reads with scum!xtoxm being the most recent one. Having a large POE is consequent of being in a large game on D1, imo.

feeling that "scum have been controlling the game state" requires more explanation in why you feel that way and who scum is because like, I don't get anything from that observation other than emptiness as it is. if one of you could further elaborate on what that means that'd be great

i wish i had thought to make this post

[Cephrir]

so basically we are wagoning xtoxm for being wrong and then kind of moving the goalposts instead of admitting to being wrong (15-20 in his iso, particularly 19-20 being scummy posts)? at least that's what i'm getting from it?

yeah i guess that isn't technically incorrect

although wagoneers are extrapolating a bit in saying that him moving the goalposts is a result of him wanting to have a townread and then making up a reason for it

yeah that makes sense i just didn't really get it until going back just now

sure, that's fine. how many votes is he at...

[Cephrir]

looks like 5 to me

VOTE: xtox

[Cephrir]

3- unwnd has said all of his team agreed with voting me
4- look at who's on his team. look at who's on my team

i could be misremembering but didn't we like specifically establish that he said 'nearly all' or something like that

[Cephrir]

how can we see a strat from scum in terms of wagons when we don't have any flipped scum

[Cephrir]

mmm okay we think we know what you're talking about @Hopkirk, but we're not entirely sure. only thing that peta wants to say is that if it's what we're postulating at is that he thinks unwnd has more integrity than what we think you're accusing him of. spf thinks it's such a specific/complex thought process from you that it probably is town indicative.

and this convo is now so far in the weeds that I am considering it closed.

o have no idea what this conversation is about but it sure smells like angleshooting

[Cephrir]

so now that i've done my amazing response to 1616 this & his previous stuff is pretty much an outright scumclaim from unwnd.

it's not, and furthermore shut up.

[Cephrir]

oh i guess it's a joke well shut up anyway i guess.

[Cephrir]

it's irrelevant to my read on unwnd, it's relevant to my earlier mindset before i realized it wasn't his 'whole team'. vaguely relevant to other stuff after that, but not meaningfully

then i don't really get why you are now in the present using it as a point against him

[Cephrir]

how am i supposed to address that except skipping meals when i don't like how i look in the mirror?!?

im under the impression this doesnt actually work and will just make you miserable

[Cephrir]

I was just worried about the disease of substituting sleep for mafia that befalls so many of us keybaord warriors

wait I reversed this unintentionally

i like it as is

[Cephrir]

very here for shitposter dannflor, keep up the good work

[Cephrir]

oh okay. i don't get why that was so important but sure.

[Cephrir]

it's probably a good idea to always assume scum are somewhere in the townlists, since if they aren't you've most likely already won

[Cephrir]

More like general annoyance? I don't know where you gathered preflip speculation from this honestly?

Townreads on you are undeserved, you've had the same qualm with me up until now where I am apparently scum for paying attention to your own progression.

any reasons why they aren't deserved? or particular players making this townread that you feel is lazy? why is the solution to "scum controlling the game state" dunnstral in particular?

[Cephrir]

I'm interested in an elaboration on this theory.

I feel like there's scum in DGB/the worst. Nobody's interested in bandwagonning them.

Spoiler:

And I think that's absolutely intentional and I'm scrapping with motherfuckers. Biased but whatever. That's why I'm not really interested in xtoxm lim because it doesn't personally benefit me.

I'm interested in an elaboration on this theory.

I feel like there's scum in DGB/the worst. Nobody's interested in bandwagonning them.

Spoiler:

And I think that's absolutely intentional and I'm scrapping with motherfuckers. Biased but whatever. That's why I'm not really interested in xtoxm lim because it doesn't personally benefit me.

What did I just read?

Don't worry about it ABR if you don't understand it

VOTE: DrippingGoofball

this exchange is interesting to me. you've been supporting abr's general malaise about the gamestate and then he comes out with these two scumreads and you react like you already knew this is who he was talking about but i'm not seeing evidence of much trajectory for it in his iso, so... what gives? i'm sort of lost as to how seemlessly you want to roll with these as though they aren't new info from abr but they at least sort of are?

also, abr is voting xtoxm despite this feeling, what's with that?

[Cephrir]

ill admit though i only skimmed abr's iso just now it might be in there

[Cephrir]

i don't know how to engage with that

to be clear i am still townreading you but we've gone from sharing the same brain to yours like, falling out

i am having trouble divining what the hell you're doing right now

[Cephrir]

also i could try the iso again but i was leaning town on dgb

idk man you gotta explain this shit if you want it to do anything for me

[Cephrir]

1. i don't think she gives a shit how anyone reads her (this could be a personality tell)
2. i liked 1398. i feel like i should be diving in to see how correct it is but i had a positive gut reaction.

possibly i should examine her trajectories i am just now noticing the hopkirk suspicion went nowhere but to be fair so did mine

[Cephrir]

eh. ive seen her here and there but not extensively enough that i remember more than broad strokes

[Cephrir]

what is he hoping to gain by being willing to vote you with no explanation? that isn't going to convince anyone

[Cephrir]

yeah it would be great if yall could make this argument comprehensible to a layperson

[Cephrir]

I could have predicted with near 100% certainty that Martina was going to scumread me and I am annoyed that I have to play with her as I have been avoiding it for some time now.

[Cephrir]

I'm just going to ignore you. I'm sure you will pretend this is because I'm scum and not because I do not enjoy you.

[Cephrir]

I know. I was having fun, too.

[Cephrir]

I know. I was having fun, too.

wait. this game? fun?
....this is making me nervous about townreading you :c

I dont think it's been super toxic or anything!

[Cephrir]

i completely missed that xtoxm checked in, what a lame post

[Cephrir]

:goodposting:

[Cephrir]

i could vibe with that

[Cephrir]

VOTE: ABR

[Cephrir]

I wish, but all I really got is that hercule's posts look like scum through and through. I don't really have objective reasoning for why. Everything from hercule just feels forced and fake, and looks like scum that doesn't know how to be town in a playerlist filled to the brim with greats. I just don't see anything town in hercule at all, and the few stances I've seen from hercule feel slimy.

what the fuck is this? this might possibly be the most made-up garbage read I've seen the entire game, and that's saying something considering Ythan accused me of lying about some real mundane shit. "scum that doesn't know how to be town in a playerlist filled with greats" ??????? i don't even know a single person at the table. imagine trying to metaread me and not even knowing basic facts about me

welcome to mastina

if you look closely, you will notice that she will never provide any reason for any read that isn't just another way of saying "because it feels like scum"

[Cephrir]

I would say that xtoxm is Objectively Scummy. I suppose the flip here is predicated on ABR having TMI'd xtoxm as town? I think it's a bit of a stretch but possible

i agreed that abr's post seemed like a discontinuity of mindset to a more egregious degree than xtoxm's version of basically the same thing

[Cephrir]

bruh the main thing is how do you tab in after 2 days to a wagon forming on you and your only post. your ONLY post is to paraphrase some shit your teammate said??

not even a "this is fine" meme?? nothing?

Yeah, but do you do that while trying to do at least..something?

kinda fair, this certainly wouldn't be my strat here

[Cephrir]

I'm just going to outsiurce my vote to mastin for the rest of day 1.

VOTE: hercules

is this flailing?

[Cephrir]

Ceph I've loved your posting so far don't become a bitter buffalo cause of mastina

thanks, that helps.

[Cephrir]

still happy with either wagon, they both seem more founded than your average d1 wagons, slightly prefer the one i'm on at the moment

[Cephrir]

winter flakes continues to be scum, surprising no one

[Cephrir]

fine no i'll try engaging i guess
@WF

why are those votes in particular bad? they were all empty votes, yes?

why is dann scummy?

[Cephrir]

Empty voting at this point is a big wtf moment, is it not?

I don't see how ABR's comment is actually all that bad? It's just an observation. It feels like a terrible excuse to wagon him, a slot who has been more vulnerable than average in comparison to the rest of the slots in this games. What benefit does scum!ABR get out of making that post? Does it give him any towncred? No. I don't think it does. It doesn't make sense to post. I think it's just a legitimate observation on the situation

i mean, no, those votes were all very telegraphed and clearly based on agreeing with okapoka/dann/whoever. and obviously, all 5 of those votes aren't from scum, so clearly it's possible for town to see something there.

did you read the posts that prompted those votes? can you rebut them? what's your explanation for his sudden reversal and lack of explanation for it?

[Cephrir]

@Ceph

Dannflor feels passive and fake sorty imo hence my vote

aren't "passive" and "fake sorty" kind of opposites? i guess he isn't driving wagons? i thought his reads wall looked like pretty real solving, but i know he is a charming devil

[Cephrir]

I'd say it's relatively common for townies to express doubt on a wagon that is close to elim, especially when it's one that they clearly weren't that invested in/didn't want in favour of other ones,

but... the whole point was that he did seem to want it...

[Cephrir]

this got too dense and annoying for me i'm starting to glaze over

[Cephrir]

but... the whole point was that he did seem to want it...

...did he?

I recall him wanting Xtoxm gone at one point but I thought he'd switched over to a couple other people? And I thought I read a post where he was actively complaining about putting his vote on Xtoxm and that he didn't want anyone to complain when it flipped town? This is prior to him making the post where he said "I've seen wagons like this flip town" or whatever it was

unless I really have just been reading a different game

he might have voted elsewhere but my understanding is that the whole issue was... well, this.

I've seen so many of these end with a townflip.

why did you vote xtoxm in the first place?

abr, why is xtoxm scum

and for brownie points why is he a better flip than any other flip

As far as I'm concerned he's done little and less to help the town. Spending most of the day not voting is innacptable, and his iso is sparse and underwhelming. Not a slot I'd be sorry to see go.

how am i meant to decide between eliminating xtoxm, eliminating abr, and policying hercule
this game is impossible

It's easy, one is at L-2 and the other two aren't.

dont really get why abr would make the most recent comment then like why lol

what changed in those 200 posts? seems like nothing? if it's about the way the wagon formed or something, why not say so? but he was on that wagon at one point. i dont think it makes a lot of sense from him and he hasn't offered an explanation that does anything for me

[Cephrir]

i don't feel like i can keep track of everything anymore and i'm inclined to blame mastina

[Cephrir]

i'm pretty sure i'm not drunk, so it must be that the thread is beer goggles

[Cephrir]

maybe this whole thing is completely understandable and i'm sucking down some kool aid
it sure felt like it made sense at the time but now my brain hurts

[Cephrir]

how has winterflakes managed to not talk xtoxm read still

tbh i haven't paid attention to you, titus, AGar or Xtoxm this game. Ythan also fits here to a lesser degree. Dann did as well prior to just now

it's a me thing i'm just not that great at managing this many people i typically play like micros and shit

agar and xtoxm are like really relevant slots to the game state can you try paying attention to them

[Cephrir]

i want everyone to read the page where worst/dann/etc made the case for abr and the page right before xtoxm wagon happened and give me a yay or nay on that instead of getting bogged down 14 onion layers away from it

[Cephrir]

that's also why i'm confused as to why people have so many locktowns or whatever but that may just be them being better at coming up with thoughts they're confident in in a list with this many people

like i probably only have 3 or maybe 4 strong TRs

does anyone besides maybe mastina because, i dunno, hercule and i stole her lucky charms or something, really have locktowns? i don't, i would be pretty surprised if oka were scum here but anything is possible

[Cephrir]

in exactly half of timelines i am a sentient hammer but i don't have any limbs or way to communicate so nobody knows i'm alive

[Cephrir]

at this point i think it's safe to say no one is in control of this town and it would probably be better if someone were

[Cephrir]

imagine we all just looked at each other and someone shouted, "if you're here, then who's driving the plane?"

[Cephrir]

i suppose going from townbloc -> never eliminate is not a downgrade but in fact, an upgrade? I mean what.

if this were an upgrade would the whole case fall apart

i can almost see it in a void but i feel like the tone of titus' post indicated otherwise

[Cephrir]

i think it's scum

it fits into a player model in my head that reliably turns out to be scum

i realize that won't mean much for anyone else

[Cephrir]

how does everyone feel on winter flake btw? i want to kill that slot a lot too

"hey guys i'm not sure how this slot is perceived and i dont wanna push him myself buuuuuut if i can get support and not get solely blamed for when he flips green, i'd really appreciate it."

ok BUDDY

are you scumreading okapoka now too?

the omgus quotient is getting a bit high here my man

[Cephrir]

either full send it on me and get these hands or don't say anything at all

and by hands i mean my fingers rapidly slamming these keys

anecdotally i think scum do this "do your worst" thing more often than town

i'm pretty sure i was once correctly yeeted for it

[Cephrir]

UNVOTE:

idk and im feeling a little crappy today

[Cephrir]

i tried voting him a while back and no one cared. i don't think i could make a very compelling case

[Cephrir]

titus can i get some words on why you're scumreading me?

VOTE: winter flakes

[Cephrir]

why do people keep bringing me up for no reason

[Cephrir]

titus can i get some words on why you're scumreading me?

VOTE: winter flakes

Your wagon positioning and a feeling you're just sheeping whatever comes along rather than putting your own thoughts in the game.

wagon positioning means fuckall especially on unflipped players.
i feel like ive had thoughts but ok.

[Cephrir]

I had a quick look at the major wagons at or around their peak. Jere are some interesting thoughts:

Oka Poka was on each and every single one of them. He voted IV, AGar, Titus, Xtoxm, ABR, back to Xtoxm (Xtoxm had dissipated in favour of ABR and them got rebuilt) and then he hopped on Winter Flakes.

I'm having difficulty seeing Oka SRing all top wagons at the time of then being the hot topic, so I am relegating Oka down to just below null

Also Cephrir has been on all but Titus' wagon, but he also joined Winter Flakes; wagon upon the rebuilding of Xtoxm's. I honestly dunno what to make of that but I already have Cephrir below my null line anyway

tw, Dann & Titus appear on 3 of the 6 wagons, and -again- I am not jumping to conclusions there yet.

So, the main issue is Oka Poka being on 6 different people at the time of their relative wagons being at their peak. Is Oka just scum or does he believe ANY random elimination on D1 is a good elimination?

@Oka: can you address this issue, please?

it's almost as though active players tend to be relevant to the wagons that are actively happening.
ive been shaded for this in other games and i still dont really get it. yeah i move my vote a lot to move the game along and because my opinions shift esp. since im usually paying attention and present.

[Cephrir]

Cephrir is getting away with hardcore lurking

...

[Cephrir]

Xtoxm: obvtown (21 mostly blank posts)
Cephrir: lurking (158 posts, active presence at every stage of the game)

Ok

[Cephrir]

I want to kill winter, xtoxm, agar and abr. I was starting to turn on abr but then he voted me presumably hoping to get Danny or someone to vibe check me. Not sure about the order right now it's kinda day 1 and just getting anything that's not horrible is fine

I'm frustrated by the number of players who are setting up to have me be their windmill to tilt at all game

[Cephrir]

ok ill sheep that since as titus has noted im incapable of original thought

VOTE: xtoxm

[Cephrir]

imagine a world where we quick elimmed agar

I would still elim him for the record

we should've

[Cephrir]

this game day is fucking stupid, but yeah, i'd do it

[Cephrir]

i wish a50 weren't town, but i think he is

[Cephrir]

yes i get it everything that calls me scum is good and everything that doesn't is bad thank you mastina

[Cephrir]

my posts were probably better before dunking on me got popular

i don't take it well

[Cephrir]

can we get a vibe check

Consider this to be that:
VOTE: AGar.

since you suspect that slot you may enjoy 510 and 561

[Cephrir]

oh my god is ceph me in baton pass

i forgot you were in that and i'm sorry you had to suffer

[Cephrir]

Red: hercule is scum. Rest are locktown.
Orange: Cephrir is scum. Tho I townread the rest, DGB is in the 'possible scum' pile.
Purple: I'm town; Titus is town; tho I townread the rest, they're in the 'possible scum' pile.
Olive: AGar is scum; Xtoxm is town.

So I largely agree; 1 scum in red, 1 scum in orange; between purple and orange there's probably another scum, but I'd say Olive does also have one scum in it.

this is a great example of a post that just wastes the time of everyone who reads it

[Cephrir]

VOTE: agar because i'm bussing

[Cephrir]

VOTE: agar because i'm bussing

sorry, i just remembered there are sometimes rules against this type of post, was intended as a joke but my bad

[Cephrir]

ok cephrir I'm sorry I paranoia'd you i feel bad now

it's ok! i'm made of sterner stuff than it sometimes seems like, i promise. paranoia is healthy in the right doses

[Cephrir]

fr tho you guys can see im not s/s with this slot right

[Cephrir]

dgb's post transported me to a vision of the future and i didn't like it

[Cephrir]

Ah, it happened again. Maybe I should start believing in it.

[Cephrir]

UNVOTE:

I feel kind of embarrassed about my waffling at this point. I should find a vote I can't be talked out of in one post. Maybe I need to stop looking inside the box.

[Cephrir]

What are you so mad about, agar? Just not being listened to about titus?

[Cephrir]

I might do some isos tomorrow if I have time.

[Cephrir]

I've come around on Ceph, unwnd, and

Winter Flakes

but someone's probably

snowing

me

[Cephrir]

Have you actually been reading my posts?

I have, but sometimes I forget details. Sorry.

[Cephrir]

Maybe I'll start with rereading your cases. I'm not sure they've penetrated my thick skull.

[Cephrir]

If we pressure more people we will have better reads and form more visible connections.

and yet you seem to object to us doing this

[Cephrir]

ok Datisi scumreads me like every game at this point lmaoooo

lame excuse

town: hercule, Dannflor, AGar
conflicted: the worst/Daddisi hydra
scum: VOTE: unwnd

Why is unwnd scum?

nvm i don't really scumread unwnd yet
but i will be watching u closely sir

i guess i want to understand what happened here, IV? this is just a very weird sequence of events to me

I do think the worst has been awkward and is deserving of votes, would vote for him and IV at this point. Not necessarily both together

VOTE: Dunnstral

choosing this moment right after being prodded by dunn to go after him didn't really resonate w me; also feels a bit like a chainsaw

I do think the worst has been awkward and is deserving of votes, would vote for him and IV at this point. Not necessarily both together

VOTE: Dunnstral

Explain

hmm maybe part of it was me thinking the "not necessarily both together" was a bit awkward LOL

i get having to go back and figure out what you were thinking at a given moment but it was like 2 posts ago? why are we "hmm maybe if we interpret the entrails this way" ing about an opinion that you literally just posted

It feels like you're making this up as you go along and tacking on whatever reason to scumread me

i am, is that scummy?

y... yes?

Dunnstral mega town off of this interaction.

UNVOTE: Dunnstralim willing to do this but can you explain how you got "megatown"?

after that whole exchange, someone else's opinion is the thing that gets you to unvote? what

ythan town

From what I understand, IV likes being town. His best option if he's not town is to lead with nonsense and then assume someone town reads him by his gestures; this can include fluffy nonsense. The way he convinced himself that you were scummy did not sit right for me.

this might actually be a real thought because this is exactly what I tried to do to (while pocketing the worst) in Mini 2160! but i can't do that anymore, it only works once. im curious as to how you know me so well... my towngames you've seen me in were pretty different
pedit: what are you confused/thinking about?

what on earth does the likelihood of this thought being real have to do with you happening to have done that in some other game
are you some sort of space alien i don't get these processes

Cephrir's push on IV here feels rather forced and opportunistic--at the time, innocentvillager was the leading wagon, and Cephrir's analysis was forcing a scumread onto the slot. It feels like Cephrir is inventing reasons to force a read onto a slot that was already under heavy pressure at the time.

if you were someone else i'd ask you what about this post makes it seem invented, but since you're mastina you will tell me it just feels like scum

[Cephrir]

what are the chances that the thread we aren't allowed to read is the scum pt vs a team pt

is this angleshooting, it feels like angleshooting

[Cephrir]

mastina if i were scum and you were not i'd be yeeting you for things i know are playstyle and i'd probably be getting away with it

just saying

[Cephrir]

The biggest shift for me was that post 1567 was straight up TMIing. He had to go back and justify a town read and he slipped - when I was run up I wasn't "doing content", I had like 5 posts. 2 were at you in the early phase, then there was my post that got me run up, a snarky reply about "I dared vote for ABR" and then my spat with Ceph. When I called him out on it, he handwaved it off that I was "nitpicking." (1632)

this is pretty fair actually

[Cephrir]

if you were someone else i'd ask you what about this post makes it seem invented, but since you're mastina you will tell me it just feels like scum

It's invented because of you calling the excuse lame rather than explaining why the excuse is scummy; you call the sequence of events weird rather than scummy; saying the vote on Dunn doesn't resonate rather than calling the vote OMGUS is out of place; the entire time, you're avoiding calling IV scum and yet are shading IV. Given the wagon on IV at the time and the lack of commitment, that screams scum forcing an opportunistic read rather than a genuine read.

holy shit you did it

im proud of you

[Cephrir]

I've pointed out that xtoxm's response in 2560 earlier felt awfully sure of themselves for someone sitting at E-2 and that had been threatened to eat a hammer unless you knew you had scumbuddies on the wagon who were going to pull the ripcord in order to make sure you didn't die. Worst was on that wagon and then pulled the ripcord 40 posts later.

this is also kind of impressively real to me

i think your titus case got drowned in the kerfuffle of people who inexplicably wanted to scumread you for forgetting to vote and i should probably read it again

[Cephrir]

i dont hate you i just find you frustrating to play mafia with

[Cephrir]

- Titus's posts here are weird in their straight ignorance of anything else related to the game. 260 is a useless complaint/performative "i'm doing stuff!". 262 is the worse of the two imo. Tries to tie it to something game related based on a read, slightly shades IV, then dips out using "well there can't be a hydra in this game, it's a normal" which is pretty easy scum not having to follow up on anything. 265 is just not necessary, again just boosting "hey look I'm trying to help." At this point, her one read (me) isn't posting, yet she's refusing to engage with anything else on more than a surface level. IV offers an answer to 262 in 264 and she ignores it. She has not responded to dann's 150 as of this point in time.

this is true i see nothing that proves she had even been reading the game to that point

i do think it's surprising that her more or less rvs vote stuck so hard

- Hey let's go back to Titus. 567 and 569 completely ignore literally everything that's happened since 267 when Titus last posted. 7 of Titus's 12 posts have centered around me. I've posted five times. Kinda weird, huh? Titus has focused on me and buddying up to ABR and that's almost entirely it.

doesn't seem to be paying much attention or commenting on anything but sideline mechish stuff. is that indicative she doesn't see an organic way to get into the game, sure maybe.

- 586 from Titus is weird. At no point did I suggest Titus and ABR in any connection. Very weird extrapolation to pull from any of my posts that I specifically wanted them to "turn on each other." I tried to get some votes on ABR, but didn't opine to Titus for those, and I strictly took one shot at Titus because of history. Again, never appealed to ABR to vote Titus (which would've been weird as I was voting him).

this was weird. i believe it was since explained that they have some history or something, but why would agar know this? titus did post, after all, that "Agar, also if we have baggage, it's news to me." before this so she doesn't seem immensely familiar with agar. since i dont think it makes much sense to accuse agar of this, it just seems like a needless attempt to score points with abr

is there more to this later or is the argument just "and nothing since has improved it"

[Cephrir]

personally i routinely don't follow up on my own questions so i don't really care about that

also i didn't read the dgb thing yet and now i'm high so later

[Cephrir]

there's no rule that says i have to play exactly the same way all the time lmao that's the most ridiculous thing ive heard all week

[Cephrir]

Can someone else please get online and look at this bird and what he's doing.

he's... getting frustrated with you because you're being deliberately frustrating? how dare he.

[Cephrir]

i could vote x but i only want to do it if we're actually yeeting him right now i feel effectively called out about slinging my vote all over the place and am self conscious about it now

i still want to kind of review and look around at what we're not considering but i could just do it day 2 i feel like it'd just be a pointless distraction right now

[Cephrir]

if you're claiming something it's fairly obvious at this point so i suggest you just do it

[Cephrir]

ok, then i guess i'm dense.

[Cephrir]

vca is still dumb but it's nice to be called town by it for once in my life

[Cephrir]

i dont think its particularly damaging if we die.

???

[Cephrir]

I would not recommend anyone counterclaim in this situation

Counterclaiming in a closed setup is generally overrated, there can be 2 of most things

[Cephrir]

i need to stop posting and do my job

ABR's completely fake read on me should be like abundantly transparent by now. he wants my elim, but can't put a reason on why. everything he's posted trying to explain it is naked posturing - i repeat, guy is scum or criminally dense and i like to assume the best in poeple.

if anyone wants to towncase him, hit me.

I feel like u might be upset at me for saying so but I dont like this post :v