TM 2021 - Black Flag Nightless

[Firebringer]

You haven't built trust with me for me to believe you will just give me your elimination for eliminating town infinity. I don't believe that for one second and your engaging in a bad faith argument because you know you aren't willing to do that regardless of alignment.

But i know you probably don't even mean it that way, u just mean "it gives u ammo to use against me". Which isn't really you giving me jackshit. its me giving myself ammo by giving you what you want. You didn't give me jackshit.

[Firebringer]

My scumread: Give me my preferred elimination and you will get mine when I am proven wrong.
Me: Ohh so you will just let yourself die when I give you this?
My scumread: Ohh no but you can use this elimination as proof i am scum.
Me: So i get to lose a town player, and I have to convince everyone u scum pushed them, while you defend yourself. How is that different from today except now i lost a townie.
My scumread: You have ammo!

[Firebringer]

in fact u could use me agreeing to this very agreement as scummy so now i have to defend that while accusing u of being scummy for wanting a townie dead. We are back to square one. I got nothing. You got your elimination.

What did i gain in the compromise? A nifty dead townie. Woah how could i say no

[Firebringer]

Tbf though, it is different today because today all you can do is say “oh Mena is scum he’s doing scummy things” whereas tomorrow you’d actually be able to say “hey Mena is now /confirmed/ to have been pushing town all day”

You can say "firebringer is scum for knowing infinity was town and voting him"

Back to square one.

[Firebringer]

Yah, I’m aware, I’m saying that if you’re convinced it’s scum!me and that scum!me is pushing town then it becomes *easier* to elim scum!me once that is confirmed

Whereas if infinity!scum then I think I’m basically confirmed town

You and I both know you won't be easier to eliminate tomorrow just because I have a dead townie body to show for it.

[Firebringer]

Tbf though, it is different today because today all you can do is say “oh Mena is scum he’s doing scummy things” whereas tomorrow you’d actually be able to say “hey Mena is now /confirmed/ to have been pushing town all day”

You can say "firebringer is scum for knowing infinity was town and voting him"

Back to square one.

Depends on if you think that argument would fly or not *shrug*

But it would be p scummy of me to make it when I’ve explicitly said that infinity being town would prompt me to re-evaluate the whole game

And to then go “oh no lol, I was basically right after all, fb is just scum, follow me again everyone?”

All you would have to do is spam it and make big long posts on how everything i did was intentionally setting up your miselimination and i can picture it now.

[Firebringer]

We are both his teammates. You solved the game.

[Firebringer]

lilith do you think we would eliminate mena tomorrow if he was wrong on infinity?

[Firebringer]

me and kobaa are the only ones who still think mena is scum btw.
Koba left the party.

So that leaves me.

And I am not widely townread.

[Firebringer]

I think he's town

Why

probably for ur ate outburst.

[Firebringer]

i misread conversation. I thought chenn meant mena in tht post. Disregard my insertion into that.

[Firebringer]

what u reading mena town for chennisden

[Firebringer]

chenn and lilith are both actually undermining my townread of infinity and they don't even realize it.

Interesting to watch.

[Firebringer]

Infinity could be trying to mindmeld with lilith/chenn by trying to mimic train of thoughts aand get them pocketed. Which makes his soft distance push against me makes sense because he knows 1) i won't push him for doing that, and 2) he knows pocketting me means he needs to just give takes i will think are controversial

What an interesting twist.

[Firebringer]

I can now see a world where infinity is scum.

[Firebringer]

Yes

[Firebringer]

infinity gave his reaction first though, and chennis and I followed suit after. How do you figure that infinity is trying to get us to “mindmeld” with him?

He is doing what i did to skitter in PyP. Say things you think a person will react/think will react to posts.

[Firebringer]

Jk9++ I keep thinking it was PyP

[Firebringer]

Which makes his soft distance push against me makes sense

Wait where was this again

He been calling me scum who is trying to pocket him for many pages.

[Firebringer]

I also think scum could be taking my side to try to pocket me, and I think fire is the most likely candidate for that.

Right here is where i am thinking but this is a few days ago. Infinity has been null reading-scum POE reading me basically entire game. I don't think this is a very good case of him being scum on how he interacts with me though. I think town him probably wouldn't know how to deal with me either.

[Firebringer]

yeah im not voting infinity. But this was a nifty thought experiment.

Night yall i probably wont be here till saturday.

[Firebringer]

joqiza thanks for the info but i think it would be even better to get ur overal takes if u read the whole thread

[Firebringer]

i don't think ive ever voted johnny this game? But ive indicated i would vote him. That might be what ur referring to auro

[Firebringer]

I have here the shittiest readslist of all time:

not willing to eliminate today: mena/joqiza/flopz
willing to eliminate today: auro/chennis/johnny/fb/koba!slot(pending)/infinity

Ive seen worst

[Firebringer]

Reads List:

Unwiling to elim: Everyone not named mena
willing to elim: Mena


General reads list in order of townieness to least:
Super slot, Koba slot, Lilitth 2013, Auro, Infinity, , Flops, Johnny, Chennisden, mena

General tier brackets:
{Koba slot, Super slot}
{Lilith, auro}
{Intinify}
{flopz, johnny}
{Chennisden}
{Mena}

[Firebringer]

I don't think i am gonna convince you he is scum. Nor do I think it will convince u i am town. So don't see the point.

[Firebringer]

I think his case on infinity isn't strong, its based on pure protection of his own slot which shouldn't be read as AI to begin with. I think he originally was going for infinity because of how super was pushing it, mena approached this game same way as Super. His reads i think aren't genuine and i think he is using a tunnel to make up for that so people will go "ohh yeah mena iin tunnel mode ofc his reasoning on everything is clouded when you look at all other reads".

I wrote this out, it won't convince anyone. It won't tell u town, but hey. I gave u 2 sentences.

[Firebringer]

and yes his initial entrance was scummy and was the worst thing the "omg guys i am glad i got town too you got no idea". Like i only see scum making thesee entrances. Can anyone tell me a game where town says something like that?

[Firebringer]

and yes his initial entrance was scummy and was the worst thing the "omg guys i am glad i got town too you got no idea". Like i only see scum making thesee entrances. Can anyone tell me a game where town says something like that?

Actually if your case study is mastina. Dont include it ive seen her make that entrance as town and scum. Outside of mastina. Has any town said something like this.

[Firebringer]

did u get anything useful from that

[Firebringer]

I think its pretty evident i have no influence over anyones minds here with the possible exception of auro. I would rate you very low on the people i could make a convincing argument over than more than half the playerlist.

I aint looking to effort in an area tht i know will not give me any results. I think its also clear when ur asking for people to explain things ur not actually looking for something to digest but more something to think about how the trajectory of their minds are going not really "lets see if this person can convince me of something". Its pretty clear from ur iso how that is going with u.

[Firebringer]

i mean... yes? is that a problem?

pretty much. ur asking both of us to waste time on something that won't change either of our minds. So why should we bother.

[Firebringer]

and yes his initial entrance was scummy and was the worst thing the "omg guys i am glad i got town too you got no idea". Like i only see scum making thesee entrances. Can anyone tell me a game where town says something like that?

I can’t say I have but I tend to not be in RVS much because I prefer replacing in. With the amount of reading I already have I have 0 desire to go and read a shit ton of RVS to see if that is true. It seems like it should be true.

Mena replaced in. His entrance was filling an empty slot.
It wasn't RVS entrance.

[Firebringer]

Autumn Leaves and Firebringer are very much within my PoE.

You literally just got here.
I bet you haaven't read anything except lilith summary.

How do you already have a popular opinion that everyone holds.

[Firebringer]

Because it’s my opinion? I don’t give a shit if my opinion is popular what I care about is communicating with people and fostering that.

No ur literally doing the react thing where u read last few pages and ur opinion melded without everyone elses. This isn't something where ur giving a new opinion on.

[Firebringer]

with* i don't know why i said without.

[Firebringer]

Because by bothering we can build an internal cadence. Both of you pretend to listen to each other. Anyone who doesn’t gets put into or is more deeply shoved into my would elim pool.

Missing the point is classic u.
I am talking to Lilith not you.

For lilith my internal cadence doesn't matter. She will not townread me for that. It might matter to convince u, that i am town. But frankly I don't care if u read me as town. I don't even want you on my side in an argument right now.

I am actually very annoyed at u.

[Firebringer]

You Lillith and Infinity are the ones that have posted. This is a fact.

You and Infinity seem to have very narrow anti cooperation posts since I have gotten in. This is a fact (you’ve said Mena or else) Infinities are a big more subtle with their reads list.

And yes I haven’t read any of the prior thread. I said as much.

This feels like you’re trying to twist what I am doing in building a communicative block into something bad.

If you want off my shit list work with people. Otherwise I have zero fucks elimming you.

I do not care for building a town block.

I could take or leave half the playerlist with regards to building a town base. I am fine with working indvidually with players but I have zero trust in building or forming some sort of town coalition.

I am number one anti group think, anti town player in this game, and I will continue doing it. Policy eliminate me. I give zero fucks.

[Firebringer]

Have fun with that.

[Firebringer]

I have played mafia for nearly a decade.

Do not lecture me on how to play.

[Firebringer]

chennisden its weird how much we agree this game and yet i still think ur scum

[Firebringer]

altho in fairness opininos we share tend to not be read related

[Firebringer]

I think scum are more likely to invade the town block right now.

[Firebringer]

if ur going to continue revaluating everyone in the townblock it questions the necessity of the block to begin with.

[Firebringer]

if ur going to continue revaluating everyone in the townblock it questions the necessity of the block to begin with.

Unified voting and short-term trust.

thats what working together individually to come up with a unified decision is for mr auro

[Firebringer]

Well obviously i have very little CHARISMA mr AURO

[Firebringer]

it doesn't help most of the players here i actively don't want to work with. U and chennisden are only ones i see myself working with and chennisden is my scumread.

Its a tragic state of affairs.

[Firebringer]

Well obviously i have very little CHARISMA mr AURO

I wasn't snarking at you personally! There has been weirdly lesser unity from town in general this game.

I know, i know what u meant

id rather see u lead this game here but for some reason people are divided on u

[Firebringer]

Meanwhile let's talk about Menalque. Do you really believe he'd make a "fine, elim me or Super then trust the other" type deal as scum?

I don't think he meant it to begin with. So theres that?

[Firebringer]

i think ive read actually too many of ur games to be honest.

[Firebringer]

i think ive played in 4 games with u? 1 or 2 under alts and read 2 other games jsut spectating.

[Firebringer]

I don't think he meant it to begin with. So theres that?

Really? Because I felt those posts were pretty genuine and that bumped up Mena to a townread for me: and he was a scumspected slot, what do you think he'd have done if there was a wagon on him?

(Drats, should've voted him then lol)

His actions are pretty clearly suited to get him to live. I don't believe the posts about him being fine with getting yeeted in order to prove X or Y is scum or town.

[Firebringer]

How do you guys feel about voting Chen instead?

Fine I guess. I am really against moving my vote in general right now. I will hammer chennisden though.

[Firebringer]

His actions are pretty clearly suited to get him to live. I don't believe the posts about him being fine with getting yeeted in order to prove X or Y is scum or town.

The way I see it it's very difficult to back out and retaliate against people if they're wagoning you after *you* propose "elim me then trust X elim Y". I made a similar proposition last year in WF as well.

Wouldn't that just mean its a good manipulation tactic.

[Firebringer]

VOTE: autumn

That was some greatly detailed posts joqiza

[Firebringer]

It seems like everyone wants to eliminate Johnny yet no one is willing to actually put forward the votes

[Firebringer]

VOTE: johnny

E-1

[Firebringer]

im actually surprised i thought no one was voting johnny from my last post. Is that really the vote count?

[Firebringer]

has no one pointed out the obvious at this point that almost assuredly for johnny to be scum right now he almost has to be assuredly be bussed.

[Firebringer]

No, I think Johnny is a counterwagon to AL and will flip town.

do u think im scum? Cause ive been the biggest person against autumn wagon and i don't see who else is scum trying to ensure it doesn't happen?
maybe chennisden but who else?

[Firebringer]

auro r u plotting to anime betray me?

[Firebringer]

auro r u plotting to anime betray me?

I won't hesitate in the unfortunate case that I need to :$ who would you suspect in Johnny!town -> AL!scum -> Chennisden!town universe?

damn if that was the flips i don't even know....

i would imagine its math/flopz probably?

[Firebringer]

new attack on titan released gonna watch and sleep; cya auro