Mini 2295 | Star Trek uPick - Fin!
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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If the frogs slot was just Ali, I would vote her for 238.
Strongest scum pings of anything else when I just skimmed through
But I don't think I will be voting for Cakez day 1 this game.
Interestingly, 2nd place is probably Black for 211, but I don't know that the two slots make sense together on a cursory glance.
VOTE: black-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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He gets eliminated day 1 in too many games that he plays in, regardless of alignment.
I do think that the better "play to win con" play would be to vote frogs given my current read of Ali.
But, still don't plan on doing it-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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In post 262, KawaiiKame wrote:In post 251, Wavelength wrote:
Interestingly, 2nd place is probably Black for 211, but I don't know that the two slots make sense together on a cursory glance.
VOTE: black
This all Black said in this post, why does this scum ping you? Feels pretty innocent to me-unless semi sheeping is scummy to youIn post 211, Black wrote:
LLD and Grey seem to think soIn post 204, Aureal wrote: Why would I not want to help eliminate hebi if I was a wolf- is she a wolf?
They had previously stated that they had their own independent scum read on Hebi in 132, so it seems unnatural for someone who scum reads Aureal themselves to answer this way.-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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I do not know what that has to do with anythingIn post 258, Frogs wrote:
it is day 1.In post 251, Wavelength wrote: If the frogs slot was just Ali, I would vote her for 238.
Strongest scum pings of anything else when I just skimmed through
We are not even 24 hours into the day yet-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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I found that post scummy.
It was overly deferential to LLD in a way that feels somewhat reminiscent to how you engaged with me day 1 in our first game together.
It is making promises to do something that you really should not know yet, at this moment, if you are going to be willing to up hold when the time comes. Which makes it feel more like a "establish a cordial relationship with LLD" post instead of a stance that makes sense for town!you to believe.
And it is not in line with how I picture you approaching games when town.
Pedit: @Frogs-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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Like I said, I am not voting you today, so you have plenty of time to town it up before this even matters.
Anyways, back to my VLA-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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In post 322, hebichan wrote:
I considered this then considered it could just be bad hours for him.In post 321, KawaiiKame wrote:
0nly one who fits this is KokichiIn post 320, hebichan wrote:
I'm kinda unfamiliar or just have played with a lot of these people in a long time. Anyone being uncharacteristic in how quiet rhey are since voting?In post 318, KawaiiKame wrote:
It is vague, I'm voicing my thoughts on what's likely/wanting to narrow down who in the Black/hepi wagons is most likely scum, making notesIn post 315, Frogs wrote:
who are the scum you are pointing to here? this is vague handwavingIn post 305, KawaiiKame wrote: It's likely scum is within the Black/hebi wagons, though it's possible they outside of them
-sc
I feel like I lost the plot in this exchange between Hebi and Kawaii. I am seeing:
Kawaii saying that they expect scum to be. (the alternative is still possible, just less likely)inside the people voting black/hebi
--(Kawaii is asked for specifics.)
--(Kawaii responds that they are still working through that.)
Hebi asks if anyone has been uncharacteristically quiet since voting. Given the above, I read this as Hebi asking "uncharacteristically quiet since voting [black/hebi]"
Kawaii says Kokichi.[Except Kokichi has never voted for either Black or Hebi.]
Then Hebi soft, but saw an alternate explanation.agrees with the idea, saying that the considered the same thing-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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Kawaii, did you think that Hebi was asking about people being quiet in general? Or did you think that Kokichi was on one of the wagons?
Hebi, how did you intend your question when you asked it, and did you mean it in a way that made you think that Kokichi was a reasonable answer to your question? Did you think that Kokichi was on one of the wagons?-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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No contractions but yes "XD" is an interesting role play choice lolIn post 333, Black wrote: I have a feeling it is the lack of contractions. Maybe I sound robotic to you XD-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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Popping in to say that I don't think leaving a wagon (that you joined as rvs) because it hit e-2 on page 4 is scummy.
"Wagon big. Wagon fast. Am suspicious."
Is a perfectly plausible townie thought process.-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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Thank you.
So both Kawaii and Habi said that they switched from the context of voting inside of [habi/black] mid conversation, but I actually think that it only makes sense for one of them.
Kawaii's response just now made it clear that they were responding to just the most recent post, not the whole chain. So lets look at just the most recent post that each one was responding to.-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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Kawaii:
This seems plausible. Just reading this post, the question is divorced away from the wagons, and it is just about people going quiet.In post 321, KawaiiKame wrote:
0nly one who fits this is KokichiIn post 320, hebichan wrote: I'm kinda unfamiliar or just have played with a lot of these people in a long time. Anyone being uncharacteristic in how quiet rhey are since voting?
But here is Hebi:
Hebi is responding to a post that is explicitly saying that they are trying to narrow down the people voting those two. AND has made notes on those people.In post 320, hebichan wrote:
I'm kinda unfamiliar or just have played with a lot of these people in a long time. Anyone being uncharacteristic in how quiet rhey are since voting?In post 318, KawaiiKame wrote: It is vague,I'm voicing my thoughts on what's likely/wanting to narrow down who in the Black/hepi wagons is most likely scum, making notes
Even with narrowing down on the most recent post they are responding to, I don't actually believe that Hebi switched to talking about votes in general.
VOTE: Hebi-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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I feel like my post fairly clearly showed the difference between the post that you were responding to vs the post that Hebi was responding to.In post 385, KawaiiKame wrote: Hebi feels to be saying what I'm saying yet you see hebi as scum and me as town, why don't you believe Hebi switched to talking about votes in general? I feel this is what happened in hebi's posts
And to be clear, the question post was not the issue. It was soft agreeing with you about Kokichi.-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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Yes. Given the post that Hebi was responding to, switching to a general discussion on people going quiet does not seem real.In post 395, KawaiiKame wrote:
Ah yeah, by the tone you feel hebi is implying discussion within the hebi/Black votes but goes onto talk about Kokichi with me?In post 393, Wavelength wrote:
I feel like my post fairly clearly showed the difference between the post that you were responding to vs the post that Hebi was responding to.In post 385, KawaiiKame wrote: Hebi feels to be saying what I'm saying yet you see hebi as scum and me as town, why don't you believe Hebi switched to talking about votes in general? I feel this is what happened in hebi's posts
And to be clear, the question post was not the issue. It was soft agreeing with you about Kokichi.
So, when they agreed with you, and said that they considered the same thing, I think that that is a lie. They were just agreeing/disagreeing to appear engaged in the discussion, despite not actually having been thinking about Kokichi's alignment in that way at all.-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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two of my 3 choices were borg, and I did not get either of them
I'm so mad-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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@Hebi, if you reach parity, do you win and leave, or win and end the game?-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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Because this sure does read like we have to kill you to me.In post 414, hebichan wrote: our win con is specifically "achieve numerical parity with all other teams"-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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In post 408, hebichan wrote: Sure, I'm in a third party survivor faction with the ability to flavor cop hunt for borg or former borg and neighborize them when I find them.In post 414, hebichan wrote: No one in my hood but I do have other people in my faction. Not gonna out them since our win con is specifically "achieve numerical parity with all other teams" and it'd probably hurt their chances if I outed.
I do not feel like all of these things even make sense together.In post 446, hebichan wrote: No, it creates a separate qt from my faction qt. One of my other faction members is an inventor who can give borg players a One shot ability. But the third person in my qt is not a borg flavor wise or ability wise.
You are borg/former borg.
One your our faction mates is borg themed, and already in a PT with you.
But then you are targeting other former borg to add to different, unrelated borg hood.
That would imply that there are a LOT of borg out there. You+your faction mate + other people for you to hunt down.-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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I requested the borg queen and seven of nine, and got neither.
I would not be surprised if someone is out there that is Picard, and falls under a "borg / used to be borg" title. (I could even see this as the 3rd both in the borg faction that Hebi did not think was borg in flavor for what its worth)
But I don't think I could name a single other borg off the top of my head?-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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Oh, interesting that your faction is not borg themed.In post 464, hebichan wrote: No, the third member of our faction is not janeway or Picard, and the wiki entry never mentions they were a borg and our factions flavor isn't even borg themed
Also, I did not remember that Janeway had been assimilated, but a quick google tells me that a a few of the voyager cast got assimilated / reverted to normal at one point.-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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I fully believe you have that ability, because it opens you up to someone forcing you to use it on them.In post 494, hebichan wrote: I mean look, my neighborhood power is very confirmed if you have like borg collective, Picard or janeway. I can verify with anyone who claims including kawaii.
But I am not sure that it sways me either way when debating killing you.-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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I think that both town and scum are both fairly incentivized towards killing Hebi at this point on the basis of "not my faction"
It is likely nai for basically everyone who has said we kill hebi since hebi has claimed 3rd party.
People considering not killing hebi might be interesting, but I have not really looked at it all that closely-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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Killing Hebi is the right play, and I doubt we will get any more useful information out of this day phase now that Hebi is claimed-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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Oh look.
Both of my scum reads died and flipped town.
I am very good at this game.-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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Thinking about how Hebis ability to know all of our secret lines would work, the only thing that really makes sense to me is a list of
This flavor= This secret
Unless it is something silly like, whoops we all have the same thing.
So, that role looks like a way for scum to "punishment" us for claiming flavor for no reason, so the claims that have happened today, probably should not have included flavor.-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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I get that him walking away is fine, but his answer means a lot less if it is not a very quick reply.-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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The reason that I asked was because I knew that your original role name claim did not match everyone else'sIn post 774, GreyICE wrote:
Do tell us what it meansIn post 772, Wavelength wrote: I get that him walking away is fine, but his answer means a lot less if it is not a very quick reply.
And I wanted to see if you could quickly get it into the right format.
Taking as long as you did, the answer means nothing, so :shrug:-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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It was not the flavor nameIn post 775, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:
right but he also claimed his name earlier?In post 772, Wavelength wrote: I get that him walking away is fine, but his answer means a lot less if it is not a very quick reply.This is never a real town role name.
So I wanted him to confirm his role name quickly.
If he had answered right away, then I would have taken it as evidence that he was able to just check the pm, and copy it the right way vs having to first figure out why I was even asking the question.
But also, could be that he walked away.
So a quick reply would have been a meaningful reply. But it was not a quick reply.
In post 771, GreyICE wrote: Weyoun, Sixth Vorta Clone of the Temporal Alliance.-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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This was in fact the reason why I asked if he had looked at itIn post 784, Lady Lambdadelta wrote: i do think it's weird you didn't read the sample role pm though and realize "oh this doesn't make me miller" but-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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Hebis wincon is a scum wincon.
It is not written to allow for a win alongside town or scum.
I also read the flip to mean that the black ops are the scum team-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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Hebi was borg, and was a part of the Black Ops faction, but their ability implies that there are non-Black Ops borg in the game. SoIn post 794, Kokichi Oma wrote: So uh, is Borg actually 3rd party or scum? A bit confused
Black Ops = scum
borg =/= black ops
Although, the assimilate ability Hebi had does imply at least on other borg member of black ops.-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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This ability that Hebi had:In post 809, Aureal wrote: BTW Grey, why did you claim on demand from LLD?
In post 763, Wavelength wrote: Thinking about how Hebis ability to know all of our secret lines would work, the only thing that really makes sense to me is a list of
This flavor= This secret
Unless it is something silly like, whoops we all have the same thing.
So, that role looks like a way for scum to "punishment" us for claiming flavor for no reason, so the claims that have happened today, probably should not have included flavor.
I have no idea what you're trying to say here. What 'ability to know all of our secret lines'?
Means that the Black Ops team was given the secret lines on our Role PMsIn post 661, fferyllt wrote: Critical Intelligence:
You know that the second to last ability in every Temporal Alliance
role pm is
And when thinking about how Hebi would have been given the information, the way that made the most sense to me was as "This flavor = This secret line" as a way for the scum team to be able to punish us for flavor claiming.In post 666, fferyllt wrote: Strange New Worlds:
There may be aspects of your role you have not yet learned.-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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His theory was that I am actually the borg queen and said that as a half truth. Instead of it being me processing the possibility of Hebi's ability existing in reference to how many borg I was already informed of existing in the game.In post 819, KawaiiKame wrote:
What theory?In post 773, GreyICE wrote:
Hey guys I have a theory.In post 462, Wavelength wrote: I requested the borg queen and seven of nine, and got neither.
But he seemed to kind of drop the idea when he said maybe I am bad town?-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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I used the zora mask on night 4, when I used my second cross examination shot, so that I would know if I had been redirected. No one targeted me that night.-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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I feel like I am just spinning my wheels at this point, because my reads were largely wrong last day phase, and I kind of just want to sheep LLD while I reset, but she is not pushing anywhere.-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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....In post 826, Aureal wrote: Are you saying that you think hebi had more information on our possible secret role aspects than we do?
Did you read Hebi's role pm?-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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I read Hebi's ability as "You know WHAT the second to last ability in every Temporal Alliance role pm is"
And so thought that it meant that she knew the secrets.
But that is apparently not what it says.-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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This is largely where I am at after staring at the player list for a while. Not really sorted within tiers
Town
Lady Lambdadelta
Town Lean
KawaiiKame
xyzzy
Null
Kokichi Oma
PenguinPower
~gap~
Rogue
Lean scum
GreyICE
Aureal
Porkens
VOTE: aureal-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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I actually think that I might feel more strongly in my reads that GreyIce and Porkens looks like they are individually positioning around a sinking partner then my thought on Aureal.
Aureal is more of a looks scummy read, then a looks partnered with Hebi read.-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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But Aureal was the one with a wagon, so that was kind of my tie breaker when debating between the three-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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Basically, Porken's big post 280, and its reads list, look like scum positioning around hebi's flip.
Every single one of his red colored reads is dependent on Hebi being scum, and how that person could be partnered with a scum Hebi.
Which is a bad way to scum hunt in general, but if you are hunting based on preflipping your top scum read, then it does not make any sense to be open to eliminating any of the potential partners before hebi, but his post ends with
"I could vote for any of the bottom 6 right now."-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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In post 861, Porkens wrote: They put me at the bottom of their reads list yet voted youIn post 853, Wavelength wrote: Not really sorted within tiersIn post 853, Wavelength wrote: Not really sorted within tiers-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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In post 280, Porkens wrote:As others have noted, xyzzy's hop onto hebichan's wagon slightly smacks of distancing. I agree that if hebichan is scum, xyzzy is partner-leaningIn post 280, Porkens wrote: Rogue might be looking for a reason to townread hebi? (130). Also 137 gives me "no we aren't in a scum PT look we are chatting here" vibes.In post 280, Porkens wrote: Similarly don't like Frogs' vote on black and I don't see the relevance of the quoted posts.(235)In post 280, Porkens wrote: Wavelength joins the bad counterwagon on black
All of these reasons to scum read people fall apart if Hebi is town, because they all boil down to be "looks partnered" or "are jumping off the righteous hebi wagon" or "joining the scum designated couterwagon to Hebi."In post 280, Porkens wrote: I don't see a town motivated reason why Aureal unvotes hebichan in 91. At that point, I don't have a strong townread on hebichan. Aureal doesn't express one either
(I know that you said that Aureal's was regardless of Hebi's alignment, but I don't care. It does not change my opinion on it.)
These all look like they were written from the PoV of someone who knew Hebi's alignment, and wanting to make people look bad on the Hebi flip.-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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I find it highly unlikely that xyzzy plays day 1 the way that they did if partnered with HebiIn post 866, PenguinPower wrote: if you want a wagon may i suggest xyzzy?-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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He opened up the day in a way that left LLD with a "xyzzy is never scum with Hebi." I agreed with these posts, and I think Rogue(?) did too (not sure on that, and not taking the time to check)
In post 249, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:
If Hebi's scum they are.In post 242, GreyICE wrote:
I’ll ask a better question - is he town?In post 210, Lady Lambdadelta wrote: In your mind is he scum profiterring off of hebi being town and a wagon or is he scum attaching himself to a wagon as part of a bus to ensure he's not left out?
And I don't think that a scum partner who successfully managed to position themselves into a "very likely not partnered with my partner who is currently at e-1 and has claimed not town" read for multiple players proceeds to tear down that positioning by making this argument, instead of just hoping to ride out the town cred on their partner flip (while quietly hoping that the town on the wagon work their own way off)In post 253, Lady Lambdadelta wrote: like to iterate, if Hebi's scum Xyzzy doesn't have the 3 posts they have this game. Simple as that. They enter and approach differently.
I think I would have to actively decided that xyzzy does not understand how to play scum to conclude that he makes this post, in this position, as scum.In post 581, xyzzy wrote:
eliminating hebichan here as policy doesn't give us useful info for day 2. if we later have reason to believe hebichan is lying scum, we can circle back around to that. if we eliminate town on day 1, that's obviously bad, but it gives us a wealth of information that eliminating a claimed survivor does not. the drawback of going into day 2 with less to work with is far greater than the "at least we didn't lose a town player" moral victory, especially because it doesn't stop us from getting closer to a scum win.In post 546, GreyICE wrote: So a non-town claim.
Vote: Hebi
I will not go into a long explanation of why this is always, always, always, always the correct move. A brief summary:
- The moderator has not confirmed the existence of a non-hostile, non-town faction. There's no evidence it exists. There's a known non-town faction - it's Mafia. Occam's Razor.
- Fferyllt likes fairly vanilla roles. For instance their design document for Tarot Mafia, despite having an incredibly complicated picking procedure, has mostly "modified vanilla" roles: viewtopic.php?p=12857475#p12857475
- It's a mini normal, 13 players doesn't give much room for a non-town, non-hostile faction.
-It's day 1, we're guaranteed not to eliminate town by doing this
The last one should be the only one that matters.-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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- Posts: 722
- Joined: February 15, 2023
- Pronoun: He / They
Like 581 did not work to stop Hebi's elim, it was never going to work to stop Hebi's elim, and actually all it did was give a reason for people to point and say "Look over there! xyzzy tried to save scum Hebi"
And I feel like xyzzy partnered with Hebi realizes this.
So that leads me to conclude this was his actual process of trying to work through a survivor claim.-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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- Joined: February 15, 2023
- Pronoun: He / They
Thanks for letting me know?In post 879, Porkens wrote: Yes I thought hebi was scum.-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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My bad, sorry for the mistakeIn post 882, xyzzy wrote:also hey please remember y'all: I am a they/them pronoun haver. thanks!-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
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- Posts: 722
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 722
- Joined: February 15, 2023
- Pronoun: He / They
I am thinking of this game in terms of [Not Black Ops = Town] and [Black Ops = Scum]
If Hebi had never claimed third party, no one would be having third party / multiball talk. But she did, but then she flipped scum.
Once we have some actual evidence that we need to be hunting down some other malevolent actors other then the Black Ops, I can readjust how I am sorting, but realistically, everyone should be hunting for hebi partners at the point.-
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Wavelength He / TheyGoonHe / They
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 722
- Joined: February 15, 2023
- Pronoun: He / They