Mini 2331 - Touhou UPick: Anonymous Edition (Game Over)

[Sanae Kochiya]

Hello hello
VOTE: Eternity Larva

[Sanae Kochiya]

I read it the same way
I'm liking Clown as town for now

[Sanae Kochiya]

What were you concerned about?

[Sanae Kochiya]

Scum having access to each others flavors mostly, although in retrospect info slips seem unlikely out of the type of players who would join an anon game.

I'm not sure I follow why that mod note would make you think scum have access to each other's flavors, or why that would concern you?

[Sanae Kochiya]

i'm currently getting townvibes from Clownpiece, Yuuka, and Ichirin

i think Tenshi's posts surrounding the account name vs. role name discussion sound a little awkward, feels like she's jumping at the chance to talk about something to seem like she's contributing without really saying anything

i also don't really like Daiyousei's entrance but she defended my honor so she gets a free pass for the first ten pages

I agree with you about Tenshi - I don't really understand her thought process there at all, which is why I was questioning her about it

VOTE: Tenshi

[Sanae Kochiya]

What does everyone think about Yuuka's claim? I'm kinda on the side of thinking it's more likely to be a scum role

I think the role itself is NAI based on how the setup was generated, but I like how they claimed it

[Sanae Kochiya]

Weird post by Sanae.

Which one and why

[Sanae Kochiya]

if they saw the same thing i did your 64 sounds like TMI sanae

Ok I'm not really sure what you mean, I was referring to this bit

Setup Information

• Alignments have been randomized before designing the setup. This did not factor into how I designed my setup.

I have no touhou flavor knowledge, but from what others have said, it sounds like the claim makes sense with the flavor, but the flavor has nothing to do with alignment, so I think the fact that she has this miller thing as part of her role to begin with is NAI

However, I like that she claimed it (and how) in her first post. It isn't a

ton

of townpoints, but at this point, it nudges things slightly in that direction

I don't really know what role cards being in scum PTs have to do with anything

[Sanae Kochiya]

Sanae’s vote on me references questions from 7 hours ago I haven’t answered yet, which felt like testing the waters for a wagon on me to then point back to once a wagon has already started.

And I’ll answer your original question with one of my own- what theme games lately don’t have the entire role card in the scum PT? Because most of the theme games I have seen in the past few years do.

Went to sleep in the middle, but did like that other people saw the same thing I did. And that first paragraph only makes sense if I thought a wagon was going to imminently start, othwewise, what, I was setting up my vote for a wagon that didn't exist yet in the hopes there would be one later?

Are you going to answer those questions anyways?

What do you think of the other votes on you?

[Sanae Kochiya]

Scum having access to each others flavors mostly, although in retrospect info slips seem unlikely out of the type of players who would join an anon game.

Oh the role cards in PTs is about this.

Ok so your theory is what, she might be claiming one of her partner's flavors? Why is that concerning and why would you even think that upon seeing that

[Sanae Kochiya]

The account role card versus account bit is what I was most concerned about. That, and it took me a few rereads of that line to understand which of the two accounts it was talking about in the first place.

Oh I think I misread this
This was about how Clownpiece came up with their percents?

[Sanae Kochiya]

Eh ok
UNVOTE:

That makes more sense

[Sanae Kochiya]

Ok

I kinda thought 23 and 25 were just questioning the general concept of flavor names not matching role names, but your reasons didn't make sense to me

But now I see it was a [concern about how Clownpiece had this knowledge], which reframes the conversation and makes a lot more sense

[Sanae Kochiya]

Also you're probably

not

in the scum PT

[Sanae Kochiya]

if they saw the same thing i did your 64 sounds like TMI sanae

Ok I'm not really sure what you mean, I was referring to this bit

Setup Information

• Alignments have been randomized before designing the setup. This did not factor into how I designed my setup.

I have no touhou flavor knowledge, but from what others have said, it sounds like the claim makes sense with the flavor, but the flavor has nothing to do with alignment, so I think the fact that she has this miller thing as part of her role to begin with is NAI

However, I like that she claimed it (and how) in her first post. It isn't a

ton

of townpoints, but at this point, it nudges things slightly in that direction

I don't really know what role cards being in scum PTs have to do with anything

well ok, maybe it's just me having a different playstyle but wouldn't scum also want to claim in the first post? Hiding it certainely isn't realistic given it triggers on a visit of any kind, so the best thing to do with it is to follow the usual process

specifying that she isn't scum or 3P also reads as overly concerned about how we'd view her alignement, when, idk about you but i kinda understood her point without this

Sure, and I'm not giving a

ton

of weight to it, but my gut reaction is that it felt a little townie

I do see your point though

[Sanae Kochiya]

What made you ask about name generation?

This does not seem about how those numbers were generated and seems like what I just said, but can I have an outside opinion?

I can see it either way

[Sanae Kochiya]

More that I think at least one of the scum probably has a role name that doesn't match their account name, and she wouldn't have been suspicious of Clown's reasoning if she had realized that was possible

[Sanae Kochiya]

The Kagerou Townblock Trio :

Marisa / Kaguya / Reisen

i swear i have my reasons

Hey Kangaroo-Chan, what do you think about Larva-San and Kochiya-Sama? I think they are cute - eek, I mean towny! I want them in my town block!

Larva i'm still neutral on and while Sanae's explainations are pretty good i still think i'm sitting at +scum

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around who's who, I didn't realize that Kochiya - Sama was me lol

[Sanae Kochiya]

My role name doesn't match my account name so it seemed kind of obvious to me that this was possible, but it seems like several people have them matching and might not have realized that this could be the case

[Sanae Kochiya]

Well i think you're probably town
Still developing reads and trying to get the names straight, several people are still blending together for me

[Sanae Kochiya]

I can only assume it's part of Kagerou's role for that information to be publically available

[Sanae Kochiya]

Nothing! I just felt like joining the wagon because I like the people on it!

?_? what do you like about the bunny rabbit though? i can understand someone liking the doggie but the bunny hasn't done much of anything

Can someone just clarify who the bunny rabbit and doggie are?

[Sanae Kochiya]

Oh I missed that, sorry

I like that it's their very first post in thread, and it felt like there was a certain level of earnestness in making sure all of information was out there as soon as possible, including relaying the information that they have another 'insidious seeming' ability

Again, not a very strong read, but the vibes were nice when I read it

[Sanae Kochiya]

I don't know, which I've also already acknowledged. It's more about the vibes from the post

[Sanae Kochiya]

I'm very meh on Daiyousei. Not especially town but not sure I'm seeing the scum either

[Sanae Kochiya]

Touhou UPick - Anonymous Edition

Current Status: Day 1

Players

Tenshi Hinanawi
Aya Shameimaru
Yuuka Kazami
Kaguya Houraisan
Kagerou Imaizumi
Koishi Komeiji
Eternity Larva
Ichirin Kumoi
Daiyousei
Marisa Kirisame
Clownpiece
Reisen Udongein Inaba
Sanae Kochiya

I think right now I like
Marisa
Clownpiece
Tenshi
Yuuka (?)
Eternity Larva (?)

And have some sort of scum leanings on
Koishi
Kagerou

(Admittedly not strong ones)
And am basically null on everyone else

[Sanae Kochiya]

I also find myself nodding along to Eternity Larva's posts.

Same, I'm agreeing with a lot of what both of you are saying

[Sanae Kochiya]

And have some sort of scum leanings on
Koishi
Kagerou

can you go into more detail on each of these?

Koishi kind of what was said before - a lot of questioning that doesn't really matter

Kagerou - don't love their clownpiece push, or that their calling Yuuka's role scummy, and generally find myseld with disagreeing with a lot of what they're saying, but I recognize it might be a difference in playstyle
Also don't understand their Kaguya or Reisen reads

[Sanae Kochiya]

I think Sanae's reads are fake because Kagerou is my only townread so far

That's kind of how I feel about Kagerou

[Sanae Kochiya]

I just did - I don't understand where any of their reads are coming from

[Sanae Kochiya]

Those are the reads I have, and I'm not so confident in the scumreads or I'd be voting.

I'm having a hard time understanding both your and Kagoura's thoughts processes, which is why I'm tending towards scum, but I also think it's possible that both of you are viewing this game from a very different mindset than me, but similar to each other, which is why you're both scumreading me and townreading each other, and not understanding any of my reads. I do not understand this mindset, but I recognize this could be what's happening, so I don't really want to push this right now, or officially call you scum for it.

[Sanae Kochiya]

VOTE: Daiyousei this is probably just scum tho

and i don't think it's because i'm not vibing with the roleplay (i don't want to discourage the roleplay btw, do what is fun for you! i am just bitter about not knowing the flavor and being left out of the joke )

VOTE: Daiyousei

UwU

VOTE: Daiyousei

Do not like any of these votes.

elaborate?

Larva has not given any particularly reason for why Daiyousei is "just scum", and she's my main concern because I'm pretty sure Marisa is just going scattergun mode with her reads and voting whoever's picking up steam of them (albeit this is still possibly maf opportunism), and Koishi's already explained her vote. Calling Dai "just scum" this early and STICKING to that just seems oddly committal for something I literally cannot fathom a proper reason why for at the moment.

I don't really like this post, want a vote count but I can probably vote here

Koishi is probably town.

I think Aya Shameimaru can be scum too

[Sanae Kochiya]

My light secret is... I secretly live together in a castle with Kochiya-Sama! And the reason she townreads me, and I townread her, is because we had private talks that feel like we're both town. So I hope that resolves the mystery of why she's townreading me, Koishi-San! Though of course it could still be pocketing... But I don't think it is!!!

Yes, although I think Marisa has a stronger townread on me from the PT than I do in reverse
I do like her posting in thread though

[Sanae Kochiya]

As for Sanane, as i've said already, i'm suspicious of her view of Yuuka's claim, , i get she was kinda overblowing here cause blah blah early game we already don't have much info early but that's not really clearing

I said repeatedly that I don't think it's clearing

[Sanae Kochiya]

VOTE: Aya
I can probably vote Kaguya as well

[Sanae Kochiya]

I had the same thought as well, hello new!Koishi

[Sanae Kochiya]

I feel like I want to sit down in a nice cozy neighborhood and drink beer with any and all of {Eternity Larva, Clownpiece, Kagerou} so far but I have to decide if that makes them town, or just sociable.

Does this mean you're townreading them?

[Sanae Kochiya]

I don't really think my reads have changed since the last time I posted them, other than the Aya actively moving down.

I like this incarnation of Koishi; I think the prior incarnation just sort of rubbed me the wrong way but I don't think they were necessarily scum for it

[Sanae Kochiya]

I’m beginning to think everyone has some form of obfuscation.

Yeah

[Sanae Kochiya]

This reporter has no intention of allowing lazy faeries to use her lack of presence to enforce their will upon her.

What do you think of my vote on you?

[Sanae Kochiya]

I want to shoot a high-charisma meh slot

VOTE: Marisa

I do not like this vote.

[Sanae Kochiya]

I want to shoot a high-charisma meh slot

VOTE: Marisa

I do not like this vote.

I just wish it had a qualified list of who the high charisma slots are and why Marisa is meh in particular. The latter is strewn throughout their iso I think, but the former isn't a matter of consensus yet so I'm curious to see how Kaguya ranks them. Is she using my list? The vote count rank? Charisma doesn't always equal post count so very curious to see these details once Kaguya returns to the thread.

I can see why Marisa is a 'high charisma' slot, but I think she's been townie at the same time, so I'm puzzled why Kaguya is characterizing her as 'meh', or why they picked her to vote out of all of the 'high-charisma' slots

[Sanae Kochiya]

While I am generally flattered by all the town reads they feel a touch premature? I certainly haven't done anything THAT outside of the average scum range yet... Am I just getting old? Is "can actively participate in the thread without sounding awkward" the new bar?

Yes but we don't know what your scum range is so we have to go off of what's in thread. It isnt a strong read on my part at least

[Sanae Kochiya]

Clownpiece, Clownpiece, a moment of your goofy time, if you could! What would you say is the driving force behind this wagon?

Her content has been so far limited to setup spec and her opinion on the mod color.

A dastardly deed indeed! Though, this intrepid reporter has a follow up, if you have the time.

Does scum tend to make themselves this unlikeable and overt in an anonymous game?

This field reporter is doubtful!

@Aya for some reason this post really rubbed me the wrong way, particularly the bolded. I can see you writing this as partners with Ichirin

[Sanae Kochiya]

Also feel better Aya
My read on you has less to do with how much you're posting, and more to do with the content (or lack thereof) when you are here

Pedit
Ok are you townreading that slot for making themselves unlikeable or for some other reason? Do you have any reads you care to share? Why is that one of the only content-related things you've decided to post?

[Sanae Kochiya]

Clownpiece, Clownpiece, a moment of your goofy time, if you could! What would you say is the driving force behind this wagon?

Her content has been so far limited to setup spec and her opinion on the mod color.

A dastardly deed indeed! Though, this intrepid reporter has a follow up, if you have the time.

Does scum tend to make themselves this unlikeable and overt in an anonymous game?

This field reporter is doubtful!

@Aya for some reason this post really rubbed me the wrong way, particularly the bolded. I can see you writing this as partners with Ichirin

This reporter would like to point out that this is not a question, there's no interaction point for her to engage with here, and you're just saying things to pretend to interact with me.

She would also like to point out that if you think this daring reporter is paired with someone you think is scum, go flip them! This reporter thinks the slot is town, and will continue to defend them whether you like it or not.

Also I'm not sure Ichirin is scum, I'm presently voting you, and that post bothers me regardless of Ichirin's alignment

[Sanae Kochiya]

I'm not sure what you mean, or what the contradiction is

I can see you writing it as partners with Ichirin, and I can see you buddyinf Ichirin with it. It has almost nothing to do with Ichirin themself, but rather how you're defending them when I don't especially see why you're townreading them

[Sanae Kochiya]

It's all of those things. It rubbed me the wrong way and I'm trying to articulate why it felt bad to me. I don't know which it is and I'm offering explanations for why I think I didn't like it.

It's less 'my argument evolved' and more 'trying to articulate what I didnt like about it, here's a few possibilities and I don't know which it is'

I do think it's possibly TMI, I do think it's possibly defending a partner, hard to say. Regardless something feels off there

I do apologize if you think I'm engaging in bad faith, I'm not trying to be.

And no, I don't see what you see, which is why I'm trying to dig here a little more

Pedit again, my read has nothing to do with the roleplay or how much you're posting

I can drop the argument for now but I also don't see how I'm supposed to get a read on you if I'm getting attacked for trying to engage with you

[Sanae Kochiya]

Yeah I saw that too

I did have the thought that: she's being aggressively mediocre, knowing it can ger her voted out, and can therefore sympathize with Ichirin being mediocre as well and understanding that to be town as it resonates with her own town perspective

And that if she's scum with this POV she'd try to do something other than being aggressively mediocre

[Sanae Kochiya]

Ok
I think that there's some level of miscomminication here and I'm going to back off for now

[Sanae Kochiya]

For me at least I'm trying to decide if I'm supposed to be townreading Aya for it. My gut right now is yes, but I have a tendancy towards townreading AtE so I think I'm just going to drop it for a day and reread tomorrow with a cooler head before deciding

Regardless I don't think that level of vitriol was a reasonable response to anything I said, but I do apologize for making Aya upset, which was not my intent

[Sanae Kochiya]

Right, I just said that.

[Sanae Kochiya]

I am a little, yeah

[Sanae Kochiya]

Ok I'm just choosing to not engage with this

[Sanae Kochiya]

Clownpiece, Clownpiece, a moment of your goofy time, if you could! What would you say is the driving force behind this wagon?

Her content has been so far limited to setup spec and her opinion on the mod color.

A dastardly deed indeed! Though, this intrepid reporter has a follow up, if you have the time.

Does scum tend to make themselves this unlikeable and overt in an anonymous game?

This field reporter is doubtful!

@Aya for some reason this post really rubbed me the wrong way, particularly the bolded. I can see you writing this as partners with Ichirin

still reading up but can you explain why you’d characterize this as Aya defending her scum partner vs. any other alignment combination?

i agree that the bolded is bothersome but associating Ichirin with Aya for this post feels shoehorned and out of nowhere

I'm not sure, that was my gut reaction. As I later said, I can also see it as buddying. Either way it felt off to me so I was trying to find out more about it

[Sanae Kochiya]

the quiet link if you prefer

just saying this game has a lot of charismatic players which raises the bar for everyone involved

pedit : I would like to get scratched under my ears yes

Okay first task, please list the charismatic players from your POV, bonus half-step point if you rank them within the list.

most charisma
Marisa
Larva
Clownpiece
New!Koichi
Sanae
least but still charming

i would also like to include Yuuka as while her play is different there's absolutely a degree of social confidence to it that i classify as charisma

i gotta admit that's least than i estimated when thinking at first but half the game is already pretty good

I think that the sort of players who are likely to sign up for this in the first place are the sort of players that would be generally viewed as 'charistmatic', so it doesn't really surprise me. There might be scum in the charismatic players but I'm not sure this approach is going to help me solve the game either

[Sanae Kochiya]

Me?

[Sanae Kochiya]

I can probably vote Ichirin at this point

[Sanae Kochiya]

Huh

[Sanae Kochiya]

Makes me feel a little worse abt Kagerou,
Makes me feel a little better abt you but also that you have a ridiculous amount of confidence in your scumgame so I probably shouldn't be

In short, not really

[Sanae Kochiya]

I'm contemplating voting for Kaguya as well

[Sanae Kochiya]

Why are you scumreading Tenshi again? I think they're town tbh

[Sanae Kochiya]

Same, for me it was entirely based on the account name vs role name thing but I thought it was pretty townie at the time

[Sanae Kochiya]

Why are you scumreading Tenshi again? I think they're town tbh

I feel it in my bones

i could try producing a scumcase too but this is more something that comes after the fact to justify myself rather than a legitimate unbiased case so i doubt it would hold much worth

but to make it short, the general air around them / the pretty huge neutrality they show, our somewhat slow /

static gamestate indicates scum are not in a hurry to do things

/ are doing their own thing alone

I can see this argument about the current state of the game generally, but I'm not sure that points to Tenshi being scum in particular

[Sanae Kochiya]

Why are you scumreading Tenshi again? I think they're town tbh

I feel it in my bones

i could try producing a scumcase too but this is more something that comes after the fact to justify myself rather than a legitimate unbiased case so i doubt it would hold much worth

but to make it short, the general air around them / the pretty huge neutrality they show, our somewhat slow /

static gamestate indicates scum are not in a hurry to do things

/ are doing their own thing alone

I can see this argument about the current state of the game generally, but I'm not sure that points to Tenshi being scum in particular

I mean, Tenshi is a slot that's been relatively spared of scrutiny since the start right?

Granted, you could make that case for a lot of people, i just think it points to Tenshi cause they both never received that much pressure and don't put themselves that fowards

Right so I guess my issue with this logic is that I think this can describe many people

[Sanae Kochiya]

After rereading Kagerou's ISO, I don't really think they're scum

[Sanae Kochiya]

I think Ichirin can be town too

[Sanae Kochiya]

Going through hir iso:

Spoiler:

I like making unexplained vote changes to momentumize wagons on people that I don't town-read because action creates reaction.

Scum don't fear a town that has their own pet scumreads and are siloed off from each other - scum fear unpredictability and speed.

Fair enough, but my main question is still about Larva. What was she cooking?

The haters can say my posting sucks but I will not accept dying until I have the answer to that.

why would you be ok with dying if Larva explains what she was doing

It's a nice clear goalpost to pass before I get unceremoniously mislimmed D1.

It kind of comes across like you already knows that all three of us are town, so your goal is not to sort us, and your actual goal in this situation is just to change our mind by finding something to talk about/focus on (in this case Eternity Larva) to "show" that you are solving.

I literally got assaulted by 3 votes mid-catchup, so.

Assaulted?

Assaulted.

This feels like a very blase response to getting wagoned. Someone (Clown?) said it was scummy that sie was focused on Larva while getting wagoned, but reading it through in sequence again - I don't think that's what scum chooses to focus on while responding to hir wagon. Sie's pretty tongue-in-cheek about it, and aware that it might not look so good

[Sanae Kochiya]

I think this is going to be a hard game

[Sanae Kochiya]

I’m not sure they are enough to keep up with the arms race, however you did pick out the few posts of Ichirins I did like. Which bodes well for your alignment, I think?

Fair enough, but it also makes me feel like there's enough here that I can't justify voting for the slot right now either.

I also just read Dai's ISO - I've been kinda vaguely skimming her posts as they've come in as I don't really understand most of the flavor context. Rereading now, actually understanding who she's talking about, and I'm not loving it

[Sanae Kochiya]

Hmmmm? I feel like you can get that vibe pretty clearly from their posts?

[Sanae Kochiya]

*hir posts apologies

[Sanae Kochiya]

Gonna be honest I don't understand what you're saying

[Sanae Kochiya]

why would you be ok with dying if Larva explains what she was doing

It's a nice clear goalpost to pass before I get

unceremoniously mislimmed

D1.

I don't know how else to interpret this post other than 'tongue in cheek'

[Sanae Kochiya]

I mean that too
We both agree that it can't be real/serious so I'm not sure what this conversation is about

[Sanae Kochiya]

They never said it was a joke.
So, I’m not taking it as one.

I think that people sometimes (often) make jokes without explicitly calling them out, I'm fine reading this as being tongue-in-cheek without hir explicitly saying it was meant in that vein

[Sanae Kochiya]

Why don’t you like that series of posts, Clownpiece?

The strength in which they threw themselves into questioning Eternity Larva felt performative.

It came immediately after they were being accused of not having content, and then they suddenly have discovered The Thing That Is So Important To Question That They Must Get The Answer Before They Die.

It felt reactionary to the lack of sorting accusations.

It kind of did, but I also think that sie sort of seems aware of how it was likely to come across, and did it anyways. I do sort of think it was a read they cared about answering

[Sanae Kochiya]

I know I'm trying really hard to ignore a thought process based on a main-guess

[Sanae Kochiya]

Agreed, I think I can vote there too

[Sanae Kochiya]

VOTE: Reisen

[Sanae Kochiya]

I mean you're the one who decided to vote after me
I don't particularly care to discuss the Aya conversation right now, maybe I will tomorrow. I'd rather r not think about it and if you vote me for it :shrug:

Pedit exceedingly null in a playerlist where I'm townreading a lot of people, I can vote Dai or Kaguya presently as well, I liked that Eternity Larva was pressuring there

Pedit @Ichirin
I might choose to switch to Dai or Kaguya at some point

[Sanae Kochiya]

Ooooh that is a pretty hot take
What don't you like about the slot?

[Sanae Kochiya]

Hmmmmm

[Sanae Kochiya]

I really only care about the paranoia part, as far as explanations from Larvitar at this point.

What makes me in particular paranoia-worthy?

Were you targeting Eternity in particular for this read, or were you hoping you'd get a strong townread on ~someone?

[Sanae Kochiya]

I can probably vote there

[Sanae Kochiya]

Can someone explain dai to me, I’ve been bouncing off their posts.

what's so bouncy in their posts? at best they're neutral and at most they feel fabricated to me

I get the fabrication too, but I'm trying not to read too much into it as they're trying to play a character

[Sanae Kochiya]

Can someone explain dai to me, I’ve been bouncing off their posts.

what's so bouncy in their posts? at best they're neutral and at most they feel fabricated to me

I get the fabrication too, but I'm trying not to read too much into it as they're trying to play a character

that's fair but it's also not a pass for being scummy outside of this whole character thingy

like, even if she has her doubters, Marisa is way more natural for instance

Yeah I would maybe say I think she's not townie despite the fabrication, not because of it

[Sanae Kochiya]

I'm presently trying not to read the slot on nu!Koishi for that reason

[Sanae Kochiya]

I'm feeling sort of out of this game

[Sanae Kochiya]

Quiet since basically the last time Marisa posted here

[Sanae Kochiya]

I was just thinking about that

I think if I had to pick three names: Dai, Kaguya, Aya (I admit I may be biased on that one), if I swap out the last one Reisen

I'm not very confident on this though and I sort of feel like there's scum in the 'high-energy' players and that we're sort of going around in circles in the 'less high energy' players. I read through the last like ten pages and got very little out of it

In other news, I would like to bump Kagerou to a townlean, and I feel worse about Koishi - a lot of what I like about nu!Koishi is their 'ability to post in thread without sounding awkward', but it seems like this is something they can do as scum from how they've described it, so I think I should not be giving that a lot of points

[Sanae Kochiya]

There's a couple of things I can find to townread about the prior incarnation, albeit not strongly, but I'm wary about townreading the slot off of 'vibes'

[Sanae Kochiya]

I feel very good about Clownpiece/Marisa/Eternity still

[Sanae Kochiya]

I'm trying not to, but off-the-cuff I don't actually think you have a lot of content?
I admit that I'd have to re-read your ISO to confirm that but a lot of what I remember you posting is vibes

[Sanae Kochiya]

I'm contemplating switching it, probably to Dai

[Sanae Kochiya]

Well that's a townie post

[Sanae Kochiya]

I'm trying not to, but off-the-cuff I don't actually think you have a lot of content?
I admit that I'd have to re-read your ISO to confirm that but a lot of what I remember you posting is vibes

OK yeah after rereading your ISO that's sort of what I think. You're getting a lot of townreads for vibes and have a

lot

less content than one would expect with your post count
You aren't voting and I don't think you have any scumreads, just a lot of focus on 'who doesn't make the beer club' but I don't think you're actually pushing anyone

[Sanae Kochiya]

Koishi how are you going to decide who to vote today?

[Sanae Kochiya]

VOTE: Dai
For now

[Sanae Kochiya]

I mean, sure, but can you also answer 1133?
Or at least share who you think you might be willing to vote today?

[Sanae Kochiya]

I mean sure, and I will eagerly await it
I wouldn't really call it grating so much as 'Don't really know how to read your slot with the sort of posting you're doing right now'

[Sanae Kochiya]

People blatantly going "hmm yes I seem to be only townreading the hyperposters this is a problem" and then not fucking doing anything about it is annoying as hell

Clownpiece - I think that this post is very townie, especially in the context of their Marisa vote earlier - it seems like they sincerely care about the 'sorting in the hyperposters' and are annoyed that other people aren't. I like that this mindset has propagated over tens of pages

[Sanae Kochiya]

Makes me feel a little worse abt Kagerou,
Makes me feel a little better abt you but also that you have a ridiculous amount of confidence in your scumgame so I probably shouldn't be

In short, not really

Honestly don't really remember what I was thinking at the time, I think in real-time you came off better than Kagerou, so I tipped Kagerou a little lower, but at the same time I was sort of cognizant that you seem to have a good scumgame and know how to vibe, so I shouldng award townpoints even though the vibes were good

[Sanae Kochiya]

Dai
Another set of eyes on her posts would be useful

[Sanae Kochiya]

@Koishi I'm somewhat surprised you came out with the conclusion you did on Yuuka based on your commentary, which seems to be leaning more positive

[Sanae Kochiya]

Dai there's something about the way that you're writing your posts that just make them very hard for me to process

It's very possible that this is contributing to my scumread on you

Pedit repeating the same thing, sorry

[Sanae Kochiya]

I guess I don't really get 232

[Sanae Kochiya]

Eh. I know you're saying that now but it didn't feel like that at the time, and I feel like town making that even as a joke tires to go somewhere with it. But hey, I'm possibly wrong!

Not sure I agree with this take

[Sanae Kochiya]

I'm kind of finding myself thinking about a Koishi vote

[Sanae Kochiya]

I'm seeing a lot of effort-posting, and posting that's trying to position themselves in the gamestate, but I'm not seeing a lot of townposting or solving

[Sanae Kochiya]

I think they meant to put the dislikes in the other section. That at least I'm not giving so much weight to

[Sanae Kochiya]

Yeah I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around it

[Sanae Kochiya]

I think the likes being put in the dislikes section is the least interesting part of that post, it isnt very consequential to me and doesnt really matter, we all know what they meant

My issue with it is more what Yuuka is saying - the blurb at the end seems to imply some sort of scumread, but I don't think the actual dislikes support that read

[Sanae Kochiya]

Koishi can you do Dai next, whenever you get up to that, please?

[Sanae Kochiya]

That's fine, thank you
Would just like that one prioritized sooner rather than later

[Sanae Kochiya]

I'm seeing a lot of effort-posting, and posting that's trying to position themselves in the gamestate, but I'm not seeing a lot of townposting or solving

@Koishi - what do you think of this take?

[Sanae Kochiya]

That's sort of where I'm at tbh
I want to get better reads on the part of the PL that I don't have great reads on (Reisen, Dai, Aya, Koishi) but I'm not expecting anything else to drastically change

[Sanae Kochiya]

I can add Ichirin to that list too
I feel like I had a townread on them 500 posts ago but can't remember why

[Sanae Kochiya]

Kagerou can you explain why you feel this is scum Ichirin trying to push through your elimination vs. town Ichirin who feels confident about a read for the first time and is excited about it?

i am still catching up on the last six-ish pages so if you've done this already feel free to ignore this

Well, I feel like Ichirin would definetly be more honest about it if sie was actually town and excited about flipping scum!Kagerou

secondly, this scumread being on me at this exact moment just feel extremely convinient? Right as hir wagon threatens to get back on track

I did a catch-up. Something in that catch-up led me to believe you're scum. Go figure!

Yeah i think we get it now that's the third time you're saying this, and look, not saying this is impossible for this to come from town!you, just that this is exactly what scum!you needs to do, and your tone certainely isn't making me feel any different

Well the timing is certainly interesting given the vc; I didn't realize Ichirin was the leading wagon until I saw taht

[Sanae Kochiya]

Does this feel like theater to anyone else?

Not sure but it definitely feels weird

[Sanae Kochiya]

I'm not really sure I understand Ichirin's vote. If I ever had to pick between Ichirin and Kagerou I'd vote Ichrin

[Sanae Kochiya]

Spicy

[Sanae Kochiya]

I've read that post like 12 times and I keep not processing it

[Sanae Kochiya]

Fine
Rereading it for like the sixth time, I don't think that's a slam dunk case on Kagerou, or that it merits the strength of the read you're presently purporting
Did you come to a similar conclusion yourself, or are just agreeing with Dai said?

[Sanae Kochiya]

i know i just voted Koishi but i do not understand why everyone and their mother took issue with their characterization of Yuuka as "middle-of-the-road"?

what is so horrible about them drawing that conclusion?

The issue that I'm having is that the case/ISO has a lot of things to like about Yuuka, a couple of things to not like, but apparently those 'not liking' things outweigh the good parts to the point where the overall read becomes null, and I just don't see how the bad posts are

that

bad

[Sanae Kochiya]

I don't think Yuuka is getting a free ride

My issue with Ichirin right now is that the read isn't even hir's, but sie's presenting the read with a lot of conviction that I'm not sure is actually, like, real
Or at least I don't see why sie feels so strongly about it

[Sanae Kochiya]

So weirdly this back and forth kinda makes me want to vote Koishi , but I fear I may be tunneled

Regardless I don't think Koishi and Ichirin are scum together

[Sanae Kochiya]

Their whole vibe is sort of laissez faire and so just voting for someone based on the reasoning they gave sort of makes sense to me
I'm not sure I see the lying that you see though

[Sanae Kochiya]

I may have exaggerated how many times I read it, but I had made several passes at trying to understand it before this incident

[Sanae Kochiya]

I'm contemplating it, did find the timing interesting

[Sanae Kochiya]

I have a lot of confused thoughts on Koishi right now

[Sanae Kochiya]

I'm wondering if I'm tunneled and I'm just badly misreading their playstyle

[Sanae Kochiya]

And I think OG!Koishi was a little bit townie all in all when I go back and reread the ISO

[Sanae Kochiya]

(and also apparently having a strange Yuuka case)

Something about the way you worded this feels like... off? Can you elaborate, because this sounds like you don't actually care about it, but about how OTHERS perceived it? Do you not have an opinion of your own?

I've literally said I haven't looked at those posts yet, I've only noticed the discussion around the Yuuka one.

Okay, so that was a realistic position for you two hours ago, but why are you not making a point of going back to read? You've made posts since so you HAVE been here?

I hate this post on many levels

[Sanae Kochiya]

I think I was the first person to call that out, like 15 pages ago or whatever

[Sanae Kochiya]

I'm not sure I see the lying that you see though

this we can work with!

here is kagerou's tenshi vote

here is the post where kagerou says "i'm more interested in seeing people's stances on Tenshi than you" ("you" being me in this case)

i invite you to go through kagerou's iso, starting from the first linked post and ending with the second linked post, and find anything from them that shows any effort to get people's stances on tenshi

if you can't, then there you go, that's the lying! kagerou claimed to be "more interested in seeing people's stances on Tenshi than [me]" but showed precisely no interest in getting those stances in that time frame

I guess I don't consider that lying, and that vote is sort of in character with the sort of reasoning/playstyle they've had all game
I think that 'didn't substantiate the 'seeing people's stances'' bit in thread is totally fair, but:

1. I don't think that's lying
2. people do this sort of thing all the time and I don't think it's inherently scummy
3. it's possible there just wasnt' anything interesting in response so they just moved on and/or didn't note anything in thread

I appreciate you spelling it out very clearly and linking the relevant posts though

[Sanae Kochiya]

Uh Koishi what do you think about my lack of vote on you?

[Sanae Kochiya]

I mean, fair

[Sanae Kochiya]

(and also apparently having a strange Yuuka case)

Something about the way you worded this feels like... off? Can you elaborate, because this sounds like you don't actually care about it, but about how OTHERS perceived it? Do you not have an opinion of your own?

I've literally said I haven't looked at those posts yet, I've only noticed the discussion around the Yuuka one.

Okay, so that was a realistic position for you two hours ago, but why are you not making a point of going back to read? You've made posts since so you HAVE been here?

I hate this post on many levels

Just want to add that this sort of sounds like scum!Koishi talking to town!Ichirin
This feels

very

not SvS to me

[Sanae Kochiya]

Other than that, there's not much really to say about it.

I was just sort of thinking that you have a lot of thoughts abt the timing of Yuuka's vote and the fact that it took a while for them to work up to it

[Sanae Kochiya]

I mean, statistically, the chances of that are low.

Which are you responding to?

[Sanae Kochiya]

I think it's possible that they got distracted and/or didn't see anything interesting in the responses so never updated. I don't think it's a lie (which I would count as actively malicious)

[Sanae Kochiya]

Oh sorry, that's fair, but I was more wondering if you had any similar thought processes about me

Pedit maybe? It feels more right to me this way around. Either way it's weird and off, and I don't like that Koishi is blaming Ichrin for not having gone back to read, it's weirdly accusatory in an icky way

[Sanae Kochiya]

I think in general your rhetorical style (kind of, I will gladly bear the cross of my maverick thoughts!) and sort of conspiracy style connections and, “I can’t tell you about this important secret thought I have, it’s super important and liable to mess with the game state! In combination with the ego and I’m just pretty confused about how I’m supposed to understand if you’re town or scum.
Eliminatable? Yes. Not too difficult.
But interpretable? That one is pretty hard for me.

I hate how much he's leaning into this, I'm not sure we've seen so much of the data that's been generated, etc

[Sanae Kochiya]

Oh sorry, that's fair, but I was more wondering if you had any similar thought processes about me

Pedit maybe? It feels more right to me this way around. Either way it's weird and off, and I don't like that Koishi is blaming Ichrin for not having gone back to read, it's weirdly accusatory in an icky way

If it's icky to call out a player calling me their second largest scum read for a case/scenario they have been proven to not even have read, then I will wear that badge with pride.

I absolutely did not ignore it.

@_@ goddamnit i thought the context for that pedit was that it was part of the dialogue that started with sanae asking you about her lack of vote on you and completely missed that it was actually in response to tenshi inquiring about the matter x_x

i still don't like the post on its own for the reason i've already stated but i will sheepishly withdraw the point about you ignoring it when you demonstrably did not

sanae pls label who you're talking to when talking to multiple people in one post, fairies like me do not need help looking moronic ;_;

Will try to

[Sanae Kochiya]

Want a vc
Am probably leaning towards voting Koishi at this moment

[Sanae Kochiya]

Agreed

[Sanae Kochiya]

VOTE: Koishi

[Sanae Kochiya]

I can also vote Ichirn

[Sanae Kochiya]

I'm very curious about hearing more about Aya when you get up to that, Koishi.

I can probably vote Ichirin with the understanding that sie's town I want to lim Koishi tomorrow

[Sanae Kochiya]

Sure, but that's where my mind is regardless

[Sanae Kochiya]

The thing I'm most interested in is your Aya read, and I'm surprised Ichirin is that low. Don't really have much other thoughts on it, especially since half of it is asterisked. I think also this game is more active in the evenings; I imagine most people havent seen it yet

[Sanae Kochiya]

I still think she's scum but:
1. Am expecting a lot of pushback from her and others
2. She hasnt really posted since Sunday so don't really see any path forward there right now

[Sanae Kochiya]

So I still think Aya is scummy

[Sanae Kochiya]

Am kind of meh on voting out Ichirin, although that role is quite interesting. But we have a few people claiming anti-town powers, + I think this mod would/can/does make decent sounding fake-claims, so overall not going to read much else into the claim. I find the poison mechanic quite interesting

I think Aya last night was NAI, wish we actually had game-content from her

[Sanae Kochiya]

VOTE: ichirin

E-2.
Full claim or you can wait until e-1 if you’d like.

Sure, I'm just gonna get flipped anyways, I can feel it. Not like anyone

really

wants to elaborate on their cases and reads on me.

I am

Medicine Melancholy

, and I poison people. Yippee !

Specifically, my night action lets me increase or decrease people's Poison stacks, up to 3, and my visitors also have their poison increased by 1. The poison does nothing on it's own until

I activate one of my spellcards at night, which increases poison on everyone by 1, and depending on their stacks inflicts Hated, Hated+Macho, or Hated+Macho+Random action redirection for the next day and night.

My other spellcard, also at night, inflicts 3 poison on someone and makes them target my night target as well.

I was rather looking forward to playing around with this role but I don't particularly think I'm going to live for very long either which way now. So thanks.

This bit happens to everyone when you activate that spellcard?

[Sanae Kochiya]

Busy irl today

[Sanae Kochiya]

Clownpiece has just been pushing me with shit like "Yeah that feels fake. Yeah I think that's scummy. Also very convenient timing on that catch up Ichirin!" instead of actual arguments

I made multiple cases for why I think you were scum this game. You either did not read my case against you, or you are willfully ignoring it.

Either way this comes across to me as just generic shade against the wagon.

Show me your cool good case you've had all along then because I can't find anything even remotely resembling a proper case. There's a few posts that give

some

actual reasons for voting me, the ENTIRE REST of your mentions of me are just to take jabs and try to drum up support for killing me. Every single interaction with my interaction from you has been disingenuous bloodlust. I was going to put a link on "posts" but I honestly couldn't find anything else that wasn't just a variant or reiteration of one of the previous posts and or their arguments. You're pretty much just playing like an Executioner here and I'm not very fond of how you can't even fucking pretend to be in good faith and yet town STILL just doesn't fucking care. Your arguments are wildly disproportionate to the fervor of your read and I suspect you've abandoned the pretense of actually needing a reason to constantly try and get me killed anyhow.

VOTE: Clownpiece

I don't know if this vote at this time makes sense coming from scum

[Sanae Kochiya]

The scum equity of that role is just insane imo?

This is less words to say what I was trying to get at thanks.


But yeah like obviously I have at least one negative utility aspect (the day immune stuff) but it's not oops all scummy bullshit either.

Yeah but if alignment was rolled after the roles were made up ... I don't see how this is a relevant argument tbh

The role is ... super annoying and anti-town with a ton of scum utility, but I don't think that makes hir scum

Also doesn't this mod make fake-claims on request? Why wouldnt sie just ask for a non-scummy sounding fake-claim

[Sanae Kochiya]

I also really want to see the aya case on sanae. But it feels like we don't have time for everything.

[Sanae Kochiya]

I don't especially think Ichirin will flip scum, but I'd compromise there EoD if needed.

I'm actually suddenly feeling a lot worse about Reisin

Still think Koishi is scum

[Sanae Kochiya]

Oh
Huh
I thought it was the other way around. Regardless I still think, like, scum doesnt claim that

But that does make me feel a little worse about it

[Sanae Kochiya]

Yeah but what about if you don't target mafia lol

[Sanae Kochiya]

Also mafia actions being redirected to random people is, uh, interesting

[Sanae Kochiya]

Honestly that role makes more sense as 3p to me than mafia?

[Sanae Kochiya]

Ok soooooo we have <3 days left
Are we coalescing on Ichirin? I don't especially think sie's scum tbh

[Sanae Kochiya]

Honestly that role makes more sense as 3p to me than mafia?

Now that I think about it I can see this. I believe 3p!Ichirin more than scum!Ichirin tbh

[Sanae Kochiya]

Fourthly independently of the reasons various players have stated for their reads on Ichi, I find myself very confused as to how many "noob" tells they seem to be dropping despite as I mentioned before that they coke off as at least moderately experienced.

Like, it's pretty common knowledge that 7/2 translates to 10/3 in mini games unless there's some real bullshit in place like multiball and the win condition clearly prohibits that.

It's like they're manufactured but at the same time not. And it confuses me greatly.

Like I thought the same thing - Ichirin is some level of experienced, and the 2 vs 3 scum thing doesnt make sense as a thought in a vaccuum especially

Makes more sense in this light

[Sanae Kochiya]

Ok soooooo we have <3 days left
Are we coalescing on Ichirin? I don't especially think sie's scum tbh

Who would you rather wagon? I could do an Ichirin lim here

Koishi

[Sanae Kochiya]

Idk but I think it's more likely that 3p has that thought than town

[Sanae Kochiya]

Oh, one important thing I realized looking back at my role card.

My "immune to day abilities" thing specifies this includes vote MULTIPLIER roles, but I don't think the Ichi claim fits that category.

(Not that I expect anyone is going to be handing me extra votes, but hey, it's info worth having public)

That's a random thing to be specified

[Sanae Kochiya]

So you've been trying to get run up ...
Honestly no idea

[Sanae Kochiya]

BTW - I had planned on claiming today before end of day no matter what because the way my role is written I pretty much need to instead of crumbing, but I was hoping that wagons would be a little more fluid. But they're not, so that data is kind of ruined.

I want more of an elaboration on this but I guess I'll wait till you claim if you're planning on doing that anyways. Would prefer if that happens sooner rather than later

[Sanae Kochiya]

So you've been trying to get run up ...
Honestly no idea

I mean jeez, have you not seen how cheekily annoying I've been going out of my way to be?

Oh no, I did, I just don't know how to read into that

[Sanae Kochiya]

Something of a bodyguard nature ig

[Sanae Kochiya]

Idk, I'm going off of the 'to die for' bit

Pedit, no idea

[Sanae Kochiya]

Well
That was town

[Sanae Kochiya]

Anyways, I'm

Youmu Konpaku

.

I'm a Seraph Knight with a few major modifications.

Firstly, that my Knight makes my (compulsive) chosen night one target immune to everything coming from scum, not even Strongman will break through it.

Secondly, that It's a bodyguard variant, so when they WOULD die, my mortal half instead goes poof, 100% of the time, don't pass go, do not collect $200, one way ticket to the beyond (but not dead thread YET) for me.

Thirdly,

and this is why I need to claim it,

that from beyond the grave (as my phantom half) I'll be strong-willing modifier my target while they live and I am dead. (

This part won't be revealed upon my initial flip

but the chances for this causing major misunderstandings in role madness means that I would be insane not to just full claim it now!)

So yeah. I pick one person I would die for and scum HAS to shoot me first to get to them. Hopefully now it does make total sense why I was in a rush to figure out my lock-towns first? And why I think my tenure this game will be short and it's a waste trying to sort me?

Firsr bullet point holds for the rest of the game?. Or just that night?

Strong-willing is like strong man but generally for all of your targets actions? But this part of your role won't flip with you?

[Sanae Kochiya]

And if you get elimmed what are the implications for your target?

[Sanae Kochiya]

Are you planning on sharing your target before EoD if are not elimmed?

[Sanae Kochiya]

I'm not sure if this absolves Koishi's slot or particularly explains his behavior thus far

But if he doesn't get elimmed i'm fine if he targets Clown-slot

Pedit don't do me

[Sanae Kochiya]

I'm not sure the claim changes so much for me tbh

Maybe like I guess I'm ok with him living till day2 to target someone and limming him tomorrow in case it's real

But eh

[Sanae Kochiya]

Koishi do you think I should be townreading you right now?

[Sanae Kochiya]

No

[Sanae Kochiya]

Also like if he's scum he can just, like, not try to kill his target

[Sanae Kochiya]

Yeah thinking it through he probably shouldn't
Like I said kinda fine leaving him alive today I guess but don't see a reason not to lim him tomorrow

[Sanae Kochiya]

don't see a reason not to lim him tomorrow

I mean, other than the protection not working if I'm dead?

I mean that's why I asked what happens if you get limmed and the way you answered I thought the protection still holds

If it doesn't - holy heck is this a good fake-claim for you not to be limmed any time soon if you're scum and I kinda hate it

[Sanae Kochiya]

I don't know how to resolve you now and I don't like it

[Sanae Kochiya]

I wasnt sure and that's why I asked

[Sanae Kochiya]

I am beyond not confident in Koishi that I want to give an indefinite pass lest the protection stop working

[Sanae Kochiya]

Which is functionally the angle you're playing now

[Sanae Kochiya]

Ok
Yes I get it

How likely do you think it is that you'll actually get limmed that day?

+ still a pass for the next like two-three days whatever

[Sanae Kochiya]

Koishi do you think I should be townreading you right now?

Can you answer this please?

[Sanae Kochiya]

Hello Clownpiece 2.0

[Sanae Kochiya]

Sooooo
I'm still having issues with the Koishi claim

[Sanae Kochiya]

I don't like the new lore accurate Clownpiece

Is this, like, how Clownpiece talks in the games?

[Sanae Kochiya]

I'm still feeling like shit but going out of my way to hold off since both Sanae and Yuuka have stated an intent to want more time to write up their me-case?

1. Feel better
2. I feel like I've probably said what I wanted to, don't especially think I'm going to be writing up a whole formal you case today, unless someone asks me to

I'm probably landing on being

ok

with an Ichirin lim, you're still my preference though

[Sanae Kochiya]

I think we should try to let Marisa catchup (from PT sounds like maybe soon?) and then I'm good with ending and getting a flip

[Sanae Kochiya]

I'm in a hood with Marisa, it's been common knowledge for about 60 pages at this point

[Sanae Kochiya]

Hard game is hard
I feel like we're bouncing up the wrong tree

Why can't we kill Koihsi again?