Chuck Season 1 - GAME OVER

[ooba]

Town
PerigrineV
Ragnarokio
mikeburnfire

Null-Town
Thor665
Ant_to_the_max
Mastermind of Sin

Null-Scum
Magua*animorpherv1*
Empking*MarchHare*

Scum
Channeldelibird
danakillsu

Vote: dana

---

This is mostly vibe based off a few posts but I'll try and give you an insight into how I arrived at this..

Per and Rag solely based on posting vibes.

CBD goes out of his way to mention Thor - play akin to scum player linking himself to a townie
- "RC/Thor is null."
- "The Thor wagon is pretty worthy. I approve of it. Good luck with it - I'll make myself busy exploring my own line of investigation in the meantime." -> Till this point I was thinking it was scum commenting on scum
- "Either way Thor looks fairly town now." -> This was for the dayvig - this is where I thought it fits the pattern of scum on town

Page 14
- RC starts the pressure on dana, ep follows
- CDB and dana attack Per
- MarchHare goes out of the way to attack Thor
- MoS joins Per wagon - later acquits himself by joining dana wagon at end of day and D2 suspicions
- Also this VC tells us a lot

danakillsu (4):

PerigrineV, mikeburnfire, ReaperCharlie, Mastermind of Sin

Energetic Penguin (3): Magua,

Thor665, Ragnarokio

ReaperCharlie (2): MarchHare,

ooba

mikeburnfire (1): danakillsu

Not voting (3): Channeldelibird, Ant_to_the_max,

Energetic Penguin

- Ant goes into town list because I don't see scum doing a stupid hammer like that ..

[Empking]

Ooba; Is Thor being a town read dependent on CDB being scum?

[ChannelDelibird]

Eh. Really sorry for promising and not delivering. Will reread as soon as I can.

ooba's last post reads fairly townish but contains no explanation of why my behaviour is more likely to be scum linking himself to town than it is to be town.

[ooba]

Eh. Really sorry for promising and not delivering. Will reread as soon as I can.

ooba's last post reads fairly townish but contains no explanation of why my behaviour is more likely to be scum linking himself to town than it is to be town.

Well, you're not the chesskid type of player who comments on every single thing in the topic. A selective player who comments on a particular player a lot more than the others is an outlier. The only town variation of this is a mason pair where one mason buddy frequently comments on the other. All other times it's either scum bussing or scum linking to townie.

@emp - "Yes"

[ChannelDelibird]

That seems like the sort of thing you'd decide was happening from an iso read rather than a full game read. Pretty sure that at the times that I made the respective posts, the RC/Thor thing, the Thor wagon and Thor's fake dayvig were the main events happening. It made sense to be commenting on them.

[Mastermind of Sin]

- Ant goes into town list because I don't see scum doing a stupid hammer like that ..

I don't get this. It was a deadline hammer and done without a lot of fanfare. At the time Ant put the hammer down, it seemed like most people in the game were either voting dana/EP or they were just waiting for deadline to come. There wasn't a lot going on, so I could totally see scum waiting around to make the hammer. I don't necessarily think Ant is scum right now, but my point is that I don't see how it's a town tell. At best it's probably a null tell unless I see some other indications from Ant that link him to that lynch in one way or another.

[Ant_to_the_max]

Magua, how much of the flavour do you know? Better yet, do you keep up with Chuck at all? Same for Empking too.

I didn't like Magua from the start of his replacement. Yes, some of it probably was the confusion of the fake daykill (second one of D1 ), but I also didn't like constant attacking of everyone. I feel like it is looking for any weakness for him to pounce on as scum.

Better for [EP] to flake and get replaced than to get lynched. If he's not going to flake, he needs to step up his game and post some content.

But yet Magua was the one to start the wagon on EP at the end of the day. We had a couple other better lynches to go with, but yet he decided to start on on EP.

If Ragnarokio flips scum I think we also have enough evidence to link Magua to scum as well. I addition to the defense of her D1 I also found this stood out to me.

Unofficial vote count

danakillsu (4): PerigrineV, mikeburnfire, ReaperCharlie, Mastermind of Sin
Energetic Penguin (2): Magua, Thor665
ReaperCharlie (2): MarchHare, ooba
mikeburnfire (1): danakillsu
Thor665 (1): Ragnarokio

Ragnarokio. I know you're active. Thor is not getting lynched today.

Both of you need to put your vote somewhere useful.

quickly followed by

Unvote

Vote: EP

EP's been less useful than Dana, and I'd rather get lurkier people out of the way quicker. My reads on both of them are fairly neutral.

Possibly a "hey, we need a counter wagon for Dana"? These posts really bother me.

And then the attack on ooba. I don't like the argument at all.

Expanding now on the "confusion" bit:

Townie Thought Process: I think ReaperCharlie is scum. He's scum scum scum. Oh, he died and flipped town. Guess I was wrong. I need to reevaluate stuff.

At no point is the town "confused" about what's going on. What's going on is simple. I thought EP was scum. He flipped town. That didn't confuse me. It made me sad, but it didn't confuse me.

The scum thought process is different. Scum going after RC know that RC's not really scum. They shoot him, he flips town, they're not really surprised. But they want to fake a townie reaction. They have this idea that the townie reaction is to be consistent, still believing that RC is scum even with the mod flip. So out comes "confusion".

This is bollocks.

It really feels like this is stretching things quite a bit.

Also, for the stuff on the hammer. I believe I clearly pointed out how I interpreted the mod's post about the deadline extension. I understood that we would gain time after a replacement, but the deadline was so near, I highly doubt that a replacement would have been found. I still agree with what RC said about a dana flip being more informative than an EP flip.

[Mastermind of Sin]

We could have, you know, lynched Dana...

[Ant_to_the_max]

PerigrineV killed that chance. To many people were V/LA and he dragged RC along with his wagon swing. =/

[danakillsu]

Well, I got prodded. I'm not really sure what to say. Ragnarokio can continue to try and explain it away, but the fact of the matter is that she's as much as admitted she didn't have good reasons for what she did, so can anybody give me one good reason not to lynch her?
I'm noticing MoS and ooba tunneling on me a bit, mostly the former, and I'm not really sure what that's about.

@ ooba
Was the stuff after your vote on me supposed to be an explanation of your vote? I didn't get that out of it at all.

[Empking]

- Ant goes into town list because I don't see scum doing a stupid hammer like that ..

I don't get this. It was a deadline hammer and done without a lot of fanfare. At the time Ant put the hammer down, it seemed like most people in the game were either voting dana/EP or they were just waiting for deadline to come. There wasn't a lot going on, so I could totally see scum waiting around to make the hammer. I don't necessarily think Ant is scum right now, but my point is that I don't see how it's a town tell. At best it's probably a null tell unless I see some other indications from Ant that link him to that lynch in one way or another.

#Unvote

Vote: MOS

- I dfon't like this soft town-tell bashing.

[Thor665]

We're grinding down here quite a bit - I think a few more people need to grow a set and lob there votes out there for everyone to see. No need hiding from a PR who might have you figured out, you'll be caught anyway.

[PeregrineV]

Also, once dana flips we get that much more info out of him than if he were left alive. Conversely, if EP flips, we get next to nothing, and scummy-dana is still alive, whether or not he's actually SCUM (which I believe he is). Consider that in your calculations of who to lynch, ooba.

You have a point, but I see things from the opposite. If he flips town, I think MoS and ooba should be looked into tomorrow. I know it is probably to late for wagons on them and out of dana and EP I will vote dana. Honestly I get the same feel from EP as I did last game.

Looking into the ReaperCharlie NK. First suspect would be MoS, since RC was voting him, but that seems like a frame job. So, looking into it more, would like Ant to elaborate on this statement about further examination of MoS and ooba today, becuase it hasn't happened yet.

[Magua]

Magua, how much of the flavour do you know? Better yet, do you keep up with Chuck at all?

I've watched season 1. Never seen season 2 or beyond. Not particularly interested in doing so, so not worried abotu spoilers or anything like that.

But yet Magua was the one to start the wagon on EP at the end of the day. We had a couple other better lynches to go with, but yet he decided to start on on EP.

My quote is "Better for him to flake and get replaced than to get lynched. If he's not going to flake, he needs to step up his game and post some content." That was post #423 on 5/8. Between that and my vote for him, he posted this, this, this, and this.

He did not flake. Nor did he step up his game and post content. So I vote him in #481. I know, crazy.

If you think I'm scum for doing this, you should be voting me.

@ooba:

I still don't see what you were confused about in #623. Please explain.

Thor is still town. Mikeburnfire is still town.

Peregrine still doesn't seem to have a scumread on anyone.

I don't think Ragnarokio is scum. Entirely disagree with Thor on this one. Compare and contrast to Bunnylover/Raivann in ASoS.

danakillsu lynch might be informative -- if DKU is scum, it's a good lynch. If DKU is town, then that means there was a lot of late game vote jumping between two town wagons, which would be odd, because scum would not want to be jumping onto a town's (EP's) wagon when they could simply stay on a different town (danakillsu's) wagon. That is, if DKU dies and is town, that'd be a pretty strong towntell for ChannelDelibird and Ant_to_the_max.

[PeregrineV]

@ooba- Can you walk me through how you went from here (Reinforced here and here) to here?

@Magua- Mine are the same as yours for now. As I keep reading and playing, it'll most likely change.

@Rag- Any luck with this?

Most of the other people in the game are null, with one or two raising some minor suspicions that I intend to look further into so as to form a solid opinion.

[ooba]

@MoS - Call it a vibe instead of a tell?

---

Looking into the ReaperCharlie NK. First suspect would be MoS, since RC was voting him, but that seems like a frame job. So, looking into it more, would like Ant to elaborate on this statement about further examination of MoS and ooba today, becuase it hasn't happened yet.

So you looked into RC's posts and got only MoS and Ant and not this? (below)

Somebody please help me kill off dana! WTF

Lynch dana. I beseech thee.

Also

I think CDB may be scum too.

+
Pre-emptive NK analysis promise (not followed upon but he's busy I guess)

Will openly ponder why RC might have been killed shortly. Towns don't do that enough these days.

---

@ooba: I still don't see what you were confused about in #623. Please explain.

Maybe confuse was the wrong word for it but I'll tell you how I was feeling. This was one of those games where I was playing at a subpar level and didn't have a solid read on anyone - at the end of D1, I thought I had spotted RC scum but it wasn't so. So when he flipped town, I was frustrated because I had to start from square one all over again. Re-read, grind it out ..

---

@Dana: It's tough to explain but I'm just looking at who jumped on which wagons at what point of time/who they chose to attack/what they chose to comment on. It's vibe about associations. I think CDB is scum and you-scum with him makes sense, in a nutshell.

[ooba]

@ooba- Can you walk me through how you went from here (Reinforced here and here) to here?

I scumhunt and think about any game with regard to scum teams and who can be possible scum with other people. It usually is random on D1 without seeing a single flip. However a second re-read post any flip helps tremendously.
Case in point: A game where I was attacked for a total 180 in reads from D1 to D2 after flips.

[mikeburnfire]

Ragnarokio can continue to try and explain it away, but the fact of the matter is that she's as much as admitted she didn't have good reasons for what she did, so can anybody give me one good reason not to lynch her?

Rag has been going against the grain a lot, sticking with her Ant Wagon even though nobody else is really supporting it. I don't think she's scum at this time.

- Ant goes into town list because I don't see scum doing a stupid hammer like that ..

I don't get this. It was a deadline hammer and done without a lot of fanfare. At the time Ant put the hammer down, it seemed like most people in the game were either voting dana/EP or they were just waiting for deadline to come. There wasn't a lot going on, so I could totally see scum waiting around to make the hammer. I don't necessarily think Ant is scum right now, but my point is that I don't see how it's a town tell. At best it's probably a null tell unless I see some other indications from Ant that link him to that lynch in one way or another.

#Unvote

Vote: MOS

- I dfon't like this soft town-tell bashing.

You'll have to explain yourself here. What MoS said seems logical to me.

[danakillsu]

@Dana: It's tough to explain but I'm just looking at who jumped on which wagons at what point of time/who they chose to attack/what they chose to comment on. It's vibe about associations. I think CDB is scum and you-scum with him makes sense, in a nutshell.

It's incredibly convenient that I can't defend against this at all. I sure hope you don't expect people to follow you on my wagon.

@ mbf
Actually, that's not bad. I'll take some time and reconsider it.

[PeregrineV]

@ooba- Can you walk me through how you went from here (Reinforced here and here) to here?

I scumhunt and think about any game with regard to scum teams and who can be possible scum with other people. It usually is random on D1 without seeing a single flip. However a second re-read post any flip helps tremendously.
Case in point: A game where I was attacked for a total 180 in reads from D1 to D2 after flips.

I actually get the flip part.
It's just that your scum-town list is almost inverted from mine. Since I don't claim to be the greatest mafia player, that's not a bad thing, but it just bugs me and makes me want to get more information from you. Also, two of your "town" reads think you might be scum. The fact they do so and are still on the town side of your list also seems....unusual.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Also, once dana flips we get that much more info out of him than if he were left alive. Conversely, if EP flips, we get next to nothing, and scummy-dana is still alive, whether or not he's actually SCUM (which I believe he is). Consider that in your calculations of who to lynch, ooba.

You have a point, but I see things from the opposite. If he flips town, I think MoS and ooba should be looked into tomorrow. I know it is probably to late for wagons on them and out of dana and EP I will vote dana. Honestly I get the same feel from EP as I did last game.

Looking into the ReaperCharlie NK. First suspect would be MoS, since RC was voting him, but that seems like a frame job. So, looking into it more, would like Ant to elaborate on this statement about further examination of MoS and ooba today, becuase it hasn't happened yet.

...what? How can Ant examine me and ooba based on dana flipping town when dana is still alive?

[Empking]

- Ant goes into town list because I don't see scum doing a stupid hammer like that ..

I don't get this. It was a deadline hammer and done without a lot of fanfare. At the time Ant put the hammer down, it seemed like most people in the game were either voting dana/EP or they were just waiting for deadline to come. There wasn't a lot going on, so I could totally see scum waiting around to make the hammer. I don't necessarily think Ant is scum right now, but my point is that I don't see how it's a town tell. At best it's probably a null tell unless I see some other indications from Ant that link him to that lynch in one way or another.

#Unvote

Vote: MOS

- I dfon't like this soft town-tell bashing.

You'll have to explain yourself here. What MoS said seems logical to me.

It might be logical but why did he say it? What purpose does it serve but to spread disunity?

[Magua]

This game needs a swift kick in the nether regions. I am now proxying my vote to Thor and bandwagoning like crazy.

UNVOTE: ooba (Who's still scum)
VOTE: Ragnarokio (Who's not)

Ragnarokio is now at L-2

[PeregrineV]

Also, once dana flips we get that much more info out of him than if he were left alive. Conversely,

if EP flips

, we get next to nothing, and scummy-dana is still alive, whether or not he's actually SCUM (which I believe he is). Consider that in your calculations of who to lynch, ooba.

You have a point, but I see things from the opposite. If

he flips town

, I think MoS and ooba should be looked into tomorrow. I know it is probably to late for wagons on them and out of dana and EP I will vote dana. Honestly I get the same feel from EP as I did last game.

Looking into the ReaperCharlie NK. First suspect would be MoS, since RC was voting him, but that seems like a frame job. So, looking into it more, would like Ant to elaborate on this statement about further examination of MoS and ooba today, becuase it hasn't happened yet.

...what? How can Ant examine me and ooba based on dana flipping town when dana is still alive?

I read it as he was talking about EP (who flipped town) (bolded above).

[Thor665]

@Magua - a page from Benmage there, eh?
The problem is, it's not even you - there are people who still haven't even voted today. It's creeping me the frell out.