i designed this setup in 2019 [game over]

[Frogsterking]

Oh sorry, your post went over my head Princess, I missed your point that Gamma both claimed TPR and then asked to be voted later. I guess my own point about the soft being scummy and it being better to vote them out later still stand, except you are two steps ahead of me.

[Frogsterking]

Hey, nothing about scum motive or sabotaging Ranger. This one just wants to know what's up, especially with the Titus point here. What exactly about 379 is scummy to you?

I think that, with the exception of Ythan*, in 379 Titus scum read players who are solvey, which is a scum tell:

Trying to discredit obvtown people for bad reasons

This one is pretty obvious; the mafia can only win by keeping the suspect pool as large as possible and steer town away from themselves and their partners. They really hate townies who're never getting lynched, and they will do their best to get rid of them, even during the day.

Be careful when applying this tell too generously, especially at LYLO. Running out of mislynches creates a feeling of nervousness and panic in townies, and someone who's appeared dangerous to scum but somehow is still breathing can become a giant paranoia magnet. Of course the scum can also rely on that.

Some scum players are also exceptionally good and can look very convincingly town. This tell only applies when it's accompanied by bad reasoning.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... 8.2B1.0.29

In summary, I think 379 is objectively scummy because myself, Ranger and KT are all findable as Town at least for D1 standards.

There is more to it than that though.

In addition to Titus choosing to scum read three findable town reads-as far as D1 goes-with no explanation for 2 of them and an awful explanation for 1 of them (Ranger), having lots of D1 scum reads is uncharacteristic for Town!Titus, and even outside of meta can be an objective scum tell in some contexts:

Too many (or too few) null and scum reads

The mafia have vested interest in spreading paranoia and suspicion, but most of the time they also know all the innocents and thus are more certain in their reads (and can spot towntells that others can't).

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... 8.2B0.5.29

I think 379 demonstrates a fear of posting in the thread, because it appears to me as though Titus felt a need to look like they have been privately solving the game by outting lots of scum reads before they felt comfortable engaging with any players.

On a final note, in LOST, Town!Titus lurked D1, had no reads and bandwagoned me with the only explanation being that "frog flip would be good for vca." I actually was anticipating that town!titus might play similar here and lurk for a while then bandwagon me because it would be "good info", drawing negative attention to themselves in the process. The fact in 379 they started to deviate from this and any other variations AFAIK of their D1 play drew my attention to them, but I do believe that 379 is intrinsically scummy and doesn't require meta to sort.

Does that answer your question about why 379 pinged me as suspicious?

*As far as associatives go, I think Titus is pretty conscious of 3-in-1 (392), and I think Titus is not aligned with any players in 379 including Ythan. In fact, I believe Titus FoSed Ythan specifically because they view Ythan as a LHF slot who would be good to plant an associative tell on. Despite being unaligned with Titus, I don't believe Ythan is Town, I believe Ythan is probaby a third party, which I explained in 250.

[Gamma Emerald]

That makes much more sense

It really doesn’t
I don’t see who aside from Fenrir out of the imaginality votes is UTR

[Elements]

That makes much more sense

It really doesn’t
I don’t see who aside from Fenrir out of the imaginality votes is UTR

it makes more sense as a response to that post

[xyzzy]

votecount 1.08

oh fiddlesticks

6 players voting for Frogsterking (McMenno, Gamma Emerald, Ythan, KittyTacky, Titus, imaginality)
5 players voting for imaginality (furtiveglance, Ranger, Lycanfire, tris, Elements)
2 players voting for Elements (Save The Dragons, Cat Scratch Fever)
1 player voting for Cat Scratch Fever (Quiet Owl)
1 player voting for tapiocaphobe (HighPrincessErinys)
1 player voting for tris (GeorgeBailey)
1 player voting for Not_Mafia (Not_Mafia)

6 players not voting (Vaxkiller, tapiocaphobe, kitten around, Enchant, Morning Tweet, Frogsterking)

with 23 votes, it takes 12 to eliminate.

mod notes: prodding Not_Mafia, GeorgeBailey, and Quiet Owl, though as mentioned I'll be a bit less strict in the next day or two in terms of when I expect absent people to get back to the game.

[Frogsterking]

That makes much more sense

It really doesn’t
I don’t see who aside from Fenrir out of the imaginality votes is UTR

it makes more sense as a response to that post

Ranger, tris, csf

[Quiet Owl]

@furtive

what do you make of the current gamestate?

Quite chaotic. This is the largest game I've played in (from the start) and I think the usually underrated art of sheeping will be very important, otherwise Mafia could really run riot.

With this in mind,

VOTE: imaginality

re-reading thread, this sheeping comment bothers me.

[Lycanfire]

going to catch up on the last few pages in more detail until then

what's "UTR"?

i would also caution against the whole quoting oneself quoting someone else quoting another person and implying there's a solid preflip association there. i'm okay with someone using preflip associations, but check your own excitement level when the nugget is that far nested into the quote. i'm not sure it does the town or the case any favors.

[McMenno]

I don't really see how csf or tris are utr...

UTR = under the radar

[Frogsterking]

For me:

UTR = Universal Town Read

I think I'll stop using that acronym though because it's confusing with Under The Radar being relevant and a "UTR" too.

__

Lycan, I don't understand exactly which post you mean because you didn't quote it or link it. (532)

I'm not going to stop with the quoting because between making players confused because they don't understand what I'm referring to (504) and annoying players by increasing the scroll time, I choose being annoying over being confusing. What I will do is start putting self/long/chain quotes in spoiler tags so it's easier to scroll past and I'll give preferential treatment to using post links.

__

Merry Christmas to everyone who celebrates!

[Gamma Emerald]

I always do lowercase t for under the radar

[McMenno]

spell out your god damn words

[KittyTacky]

Lycan probs town. idk about imaginality. I'd rather frog today.

[KittyTacky]

The way I feel about Titu's defense of imaginality depends on imaginality's alignment tho.

[KittyTacky]

*Tiotus'

[KittyTacky]

Titus'

Sorry I'm drunk.

[Ythan]

Cheers!

[KittyTacky]

VOTE: elements

Why, after taking another shot at Gamma immediately before?

[KittyTacky]

I'm still trying to get into the rhythm of the game and I feel the best way to do so is to ask questions.

[KittyTacky]

I don't really feel Elements scum.

[Quiet Owl]

@owl

what is your impression of Morning Tweet and Lycanfire rn?

didn't see this earlier, sorry.

i'm inclined to think that tweet is town, mainly because she's questioning people but also giving reasons for questioning them instead of just going "OoOOoO but what if you were wrong??" she's also actively engaged with the game instead of coasting.

lycanfire is very focused on just casting doubt on everything and has about 2 posts of substance (403 and 404). this is typical of their playstyle as an arsonist in this game. viewtopic.php?p=10782486&user_select%5B ... #p10782486
could also be that they're not very invested in the game but at this point i think town!lycan would be putting more solid posts out there, based off viewtopic.php?p=10230168&user_select%5B ... #p10230168
considering the possibility of a lycan/catscratch team.

tl;dr: aw snap

VOTE: Lycanfire

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: elements

Why, after taking another shot at Gamma immediately before?

I thought Dragons was reaction testing both Elements and Titus, because Titus had recently posted, so presumably they would see the vote. I wanted to back him up and also I wanted to see how Gamma reacted, because Gamma had recently posted as well.

[Ranger]

Elaborate more on Gamma? This one's been pretty neutral on her so it'd like to hear reasoning from people who scumread her. That goes for you too,

@Frog

. This one wants to hear your meta evidence on Gamma, as you haven't really shown evidence despite saying you can quote as many as four relevant games.

As it so happens, I'm currently second-guessing my read there (not the full reversal which was Lycanfire), but it amounts to multiple factors.
Gamma feels like she's forcing towniness;
Gamma feels like her response to Frogsterking is overblown;
I vibe with Frogsterking's reasons for scumreading her (they match my own experiences);
I've not liked her stances/takes.

I've since reconsidered the strength of these, doubting my prior strength because Gamma could be forcing the effort as town, with her genuinely sorting. I still lean scum, but not as strongly now.

{Save The Dragons}
{HighPrincessErinys, Cat Scratch Fever, Morning Tweet, Frogsterking}
{KittyTacky, tris}
{GeorgeBailey, Enchant}
{kitten around}
{Elements}
{McMenno}
{Lycanfire}
{Not_Mafia}
{Vaxkiller, tapiocaphobe}
{Ythan}
{furtiveglance}
{Gamma Emerald}
{Titus}
{Quiet Owl}
{imaginality}

[Not_Mafia]

Merry Christmas

[Not_Mafia]

Merry Christmas