Toriel's Patience (end)

[beeboy]

I’ll start playing tomorrow just noticed the game was up as I was heading to bed.

[beeboy]

I do wonder why 2 people felt the need to claim VT right away

They weren’t even role pms they were alignment pms

[beeboy]

Everything I want to post is just being posted by other people as I catch up. I’m giving up doing quote posts since this post will be ultimately small as I want to avoid restating too much >.>

I agree with Dunn being above average scum, as he continues to post he is redeeming himself from the start though not sure if I’ll still think he is scummy by game start.

Dan feels a bit too aggressive out of the gates and it’s either scummy or a lot of excitement not sure which one yet, probably just scummy.

Mandate is town because Taly was giving me pings around the time they voted them. I do think Taly is town atm as well though. Post #83 is actually like too wolfy to come from a wolf I feel like anyone with self awareness would avoid posting that.

Meuh had a strange opener, like the real one not the rvs vote, I’ll hold my breathe for now because I can sorta see myself over explaining like that as either alignment. But over explaining simple NAI things is more of a scum trait even if it’s not concrete. As I kept reading though I find it hard to care.

I have some people I find null because I’m confused and other people are more deliberately null because I feel they aren’t doing things. I eventually hit a Point in the thread where things got tricky to read cause I don’t ever get a good feel for a thread catching up so I just started to aggressively skim the posts.

Dunns alignment is one of the most important ones to discuss because he will flip and interactions with him feel important because of that.

My take on mechs:

I don’t want to go mercy because I don’t want to be stuck in a game without townie people. Especially when a lot of what goes into town reading people involves taking fun people out of the game. If something occurs with flips to make going mercy optimal I’ll re evaluate this strategy take.

[beeboy]

I will be contrarian and call Beeboy scum.

Whatchu gonna do about it?

Big W

[beeboy]

@Dunn r any of these alts you know who and which one

[beeboy]

@Dunn r any of these alts you know who and which one

According to the game rules, specifically common rule #8, we are not to speak vaguely so as to have a private conversation in public using previously known information from before the game.

[beeboy]

I don’t really think Meuh has done anything special in all honesty.

[beeboy]

Brown Eyes is likely town, but I think I just agree with what implosion said on the matter. In regards to implosion the person I’m sheeping I’m not particularly sure. The style of posting is relatively tricky to read earlier on in a game.

[beeboy]

Are all games this active now? I haven't played here in so long.

[beeboy]

Brown Eyes is likely town, but I think I just agree with what implosion said on the matter. In regards to implosion the person I’m sheeping I’m not particularly sure. The style of posting is relatively tricky to read earlier on in a game.

I agree with everything you post to an almost uncomfortable level.

Why do posts like this make me feel like a robot.

[beeboy]

I think 578 is hard to fake / unlikely to be made as a fake

huh, why?

[beeboy]

I don’t really think Meuh has done anything special in all honesty.

What conclusion should I draw from this

Do you think Meuh is scum? Do you think they're just meh town but you don't think she deserves all the town credits upon which she has been bestowed? I'm not saying this can't be a genuine thought from you but a post like this really needs a follow up now what? kind of deal.

I already made my post about it, I think there opening was wolfy and they have a few posts they got credit for that feel null or almost even wolfy to me.
#448 for example can easily be reactionary to the question and generally just make me feel Meuh looks worse instead of better.

[beeboy]

Can people just use post code so it's easier to follow

Code: Select all

[post]448[/post]

Turns out 448

I'll try and remember in the future

[beeboy]

I am kind of shocked people are town reading everyone, I guess I am half as active and 10 pages behind so I don't have a lot of the live conversations other people have to form reads but that is really just not the vibe I am getting.

Also Mandate why not just vote me if you want to? It's a costless resource to vote me hesitating seems weird in all honesty.

[beeboy]

beebot I don't understand 789

Robotic in a way where my thoughts aren't like creative / reproducible?
Almost like I'm following a mafia handbook idk, mainly cause that isn't the first time someone said that about me.

I guess it isn't a bad thing.

[beeboy]

I guess if I feel people not voting is part of the reason everyone is town reading each other I should vote someone.

Meuh

[beeboy]

Vote: Meuh

[beeboy]

I am kind of shocked people are town reading everyone, I guess I am half as active and 10 pages behind so I don't have a lot of the live conversations other people have to form reads but that is really just not the vibe I am getting.

Also Mandate why not just vote me if you want to? It's a costless resource to vote me hesitating seems weird in all honesty.

It is a lot of people with a lot of townreads, more than I'm used to seeing too. Do you think there's something scummy about it Beeboy or are you just thinking it's an odd quirk of the game

It's why i think the actives contain more scum then not?
In general if everyone is comfortable waiting to vote out a lurker you don't want to place a vote and thus shift the gamestate in a way that makes it more readable. A lack of readability generally favors the wolves since when playing at complete random I believe wolves tend to win statistically but I could be wrong.

basically stale discussion = discussion is controlled by people who don't care that it's stale = discussion controlled by not town.

[beeboy]

I guess if I feel people not voting is part of the reason everyone is town reading each other I should vote someone.

Meuh

gotta use the vote tags for it to count

z.z I forgot we had vote tags here I am so rusty.

VOTE: Meuh

[beeboy]

I am kind of shocked people are town reading everyone, I guess I am half as active and 10 pages behind so I don't have a lot of the live conversations other people have to form reads but that is really just not the vibe I am getting.

Also Mandate why not just vote me if you want to? It's a costless resource to vote me hesitating seems weird in all honesty.

It is a lot of people with a lot of townreads, more than I'm used to seeing too. Do you think there's something scummy about it Beeboy or are you just thinking it's an odd quirk of the game

It's why i think the actives contain more scum then not?
In general if everyone is comfortable waiting to vote out a lurker you don't want to place a vote and thus shift the gamestate in a way that makes it more readable. A lack of readability generally favors the wolves since when playing at complete random I believe wolves tend to win statistically but I could be wrong.

basically stale discussion = discussion is controlled by people who don't care that it's stale = discussion controlled by not town.

Who is voting a lurker

"waiting to vote out a lurker" is not the same as "voting a lurker". In all honesty I don't think I'd be getting the same vibe if everyone just piled down on a lurker.
I get the vibe wolves are waiting for that to happen when you look at the people talking about how everyone is town but instead of doing something about it, it's just like hovering Alisae or me instead but not really actually voting them or even pressuring them it's just like this weird looming threat.

[beeboy]

Aristeia: "why do you town read dann"
Mandate: "it is what is if you can't see it there isn't anything I can do"

[beeboy]

Hm, they say "stale discussion" in post 839, and I think they were parroting what you were saying earlier, but I never thought the discussion was stale.

Sure I don't like their last ~4 posts or vote on Meuh.

VOTE: beeboy

Whether or not a thread is stale is mostly just an opinion.

[beeboy]

I think I'm just gonna stop this thing I'm doing and start playing more openly again

My goal with this game was essentially to bait a specific reaction from scum. I wanted to build a townblock that was good enough to win to force scum to react to it but I also wanted to have a low enough obvious ability to generate thread presence and have for there to be potential weaknesses in that town block to put it forward and then wait for specific ways that I was expecting scum to try to dismantle it. I didn't really want to discourage a wagon on Dannflor because I wanted to see who would push it and why and what else would go on if I took off the gas. I remain fairly confident of the general strength of the townblock (thought it may have at most 1 scum, but probably doesn't). I actually am not sure if Merlyn is the scum-trying-to-destroy-townblock that I was looking for because I really just think she tilt voted me for not doing what she wanted (even if she's scum I think this is true) but I think that we did find one in Beeboy, who has not actually himself had much interest in pushing anyone scum but has been pretty continually attacking and shading townreads on people and implying that the townblock is scum heavy while not really being interested in instigating a conflict in any one person. The Meuh vote feels pretty done for the sake of doing things from where I'm standing but ymmv on that, I think 422 is pretty terrible, and there's a lot of tonal things that ping me regarding them.

I mean here's everything they say about Meuh:

Meuh had a strange opener, like the real one not the rvs vote, I’ll hold my breathe for now because I can sorta see myself over explaining like that as either alignment. But over explaining simple NAI things is more of a scum trait even if it’s not concrete. As I kept reading though I find it hard to care.

don’t really think Meuh has done anything special in all honesty.

I already made my post about it, I think there opening was wolfy and they have a few posts they got credit for that feel null or almost even wolfy to me.
#448 for example can easily be reactionary to the question and generally just make me feel Meuh looks worse instead of better.

It's... really not convincing, there's a lot of words that don't really say anything and even though this is supposedly the big scumread there's a lot of waffle wording, like "null or almost even wolfy" or saying something "can easily be" reactionary.

It's why i think the actives contain more scum then not?
In general if everyone is comfortable waiting to vote out a lurker you don't want to place a vote and thus shift the gamestate in a way that makes it more readable. A lack of readability generally favors the wolves since when playing at complete random I believe wolves tend to win statistically but I could be wrong.

basically stale discussion = discussion is controlled by people who don't care that it's stale = discussion controlled by not town.

This in particular just feels straight openwolf, I don't really buy that Beeboy feels that the game state is especially stale or unreadable on the second (third now?) day of a game and pretty much the only person who is openly waiting to vote a lurker is me but he stops short of saying it and even outside of that this comment is just so bad, like I am not buying for one moment a town says "a lack of readability generally favors the wolves".

Regarding Dannflor: the claim was made that scum!he just lazily townread me for having a strong presence. I don't think anyone has pushed us as SvS so I don't need to defend that accusation. What I have to say regarding that is that he -didn't- townread me. Explicitly. He townread someone else that I also townread but didn't give a townread to me. I had to prompt it and he still wouldn't give me an explicit townread, just a lean. In contrast to what other people say about him giving me an easy townread I think it's kind of obvious that he was never fully comfortable in that townread and I also think it's kind of obvious that it has to do with him alt guessing me as a strong scum player. And I felt all this as it was going on and it felt far outside the bounds of something that Dannflor as scum would think to fake. He was also just very, idk, in the flow on the first page of the game and didn't feel forced or offbeat at all and I'm very much struggling with anyone characterizing his play as wanton scum!Aggression because there's the interesting vote hop taly->Keyleth that I really liked plus the fact that he didn't really, like, push anyone that hard? I also struggle with the characterization of him as meme voting because I think he was continually providing game relevant content while he was here so the push on him just entirely doesn't grok with the ISO of his that I've read.

Anyway I'll VOTE: Beeboy now and spice up the game since although I really really would like to have waited at least a couple days for Alisae and others to do more things I think that my being hands off is just not gonna happen in this game.

I’ve never once stated it to be a major read on my part and very close to my vote post I stated I see votes as a free resource to just use because you can. Like half your comment on this is stating this is a big read from me when it very clearly just isn’t. Do you genuinely believe what your saying here and what kind of town pressures someone by misrepresenting them it’s not really hard to refute.

waffle wording is a personality trait and is almost never alignment indicative. It’s largely just a buzz word used to push people. I guess you can just disagree with this though since it’s not an objectively false statement I am relatively uncertain of things.

There isn’t anything else here I think I need to comment on.

[beeboy]

Hm, they say "stale discussion" in post 839, and I think they were parroting what you were saying earlier, but I never thought the discussion was stale.

Sure I don't like their last ~4 posts or vote on Meuh.

VOTE: beeboy

Whether or not a thread is stale is mostly just an opinion.

Right. And I think it may be harder to get into the discussion as mafia, which would mean you would get less out of it and would be more inclined to hold such an opinion.

Yea this is valid i don’t have any response to this that isn’t just explaining my feelings or saying it could come from town.

[beeboy]

Oh shit really?

UNVOTE:

put the vote back coward.

[beeboy]

I'll be on in a few hours

[beeboy]

finally

VOTE: beeboy

this game moves too fast :X

May you tell me how you reached this point when you get back?

[beeboy]

I am not interested in voting Sakura, but I do believe that Dann is town for voting there. As the game goes on I’m starting to feel as though Sharon’s thoughts and posts are a bit more real.

On the other hand I kind of get the opposite vibe from Mandate, they are kind of dismantling my opinion on them.

[beeboy]

Who is Sharon?

Auto correct of Shirou

[beeboy]

Thanks Dunn, kinda a lot more boring then what I expected.

[beeboy]

I don't think the vote is that deep. I was intentionally trying to get votes moving when

Sakura

made hers. My benefit of the doubt is that any vote would've been better than none.

Thanks Dunn, kinda a lot more boring then what I expected.

What did you expect?

A reason that can be explained using one’s own words, analysis and opinions

[beeboy]

My analysis and opinion is that your initial dive into the game doesn't align with your

Meuh

vote and I mentioned in an ISO a few questions about how curious your wording of some slots are, vague as they were.

I mean I was talking to implosion and not you when I asked that question anyway, I didn’t see a particular reason to engage you on it since I kind of have an idea as to how this convo would go already. I was confused on how Implosion could end up voting me after I read there catch up but I missed the post on sheeping mandate.

I don’t particularly agree with your vote though if you want me to talk about it since your engaging my implosion concern. I wasn’t leading into voting anyone else and I don’t think I implied I thought Meuh was town anywhere. I think this is more of an issue with how you are reading my posts then anything on my part. The only part to talk about is the confidence bit you mentioned but it’s kinda just how I like to talk until later in the game where I have more info. I struggle a lot to post confidently when games don’t really have content to do that with. To skip some motions when I refer to content I don’t mean pages, posts, cases or emotions, I mostly mean shifting votes on places that are under pressure and flips which can’t come this early in a game no matter how many pages you have.

[beeboy]

beeboy did you really just pull the “im useless d1 but just wait until we get some flips” card

Yes but only in regards to my tone,

[beeboy]

I’ll def vote and push people n1 but I won’t pretend I’m good at it lmao.

[beeboy]

I’ll def vote and push people n1 but I won’t pretend I’m good at it lmao.

this game doesnt have a n1 tho

-----

But yea for the comment I made, which I think I've already made to mandate just worded different. I don't self describe as being confident in my early reads. I wouldn't say I don't play the game, make reads or cases early on? I think I play at roughly the same quality throughout the game confidence aside, I'm just very self aware and critical of early game inaccuracies. I hope we can all be on the same page as this because it's a conversation I think is needed each time I play I think I played games with a lot of you back when I used to spam games, so I wasn't always like this since you can use meta as a crutch which can create pretty confident reads early on.

z.z sorry I don't like thread spamming with self meta, it really just is the response to a playstyle thing

[beeboy]

My analysis and opinion is that your initial dive into the game doesn't align with your

Meuh

vote and I mentioned in an ISO a few questions about how curious your wording of some slots are, vague as they were.

I mean I was talking to implosion and not you when I asked that question anyway, I didn’t see a particular reason to engage you on it since I kind of have an idea as to how this convo would go already. I was confused on how Implosion could end up voting me after I read there catch up but I missed the post on sheeping mandate.

I don’t particularly agree with your vote though if you want me to talk about it since your engaging my implosion concern. I wasn’t leading into voting anyone else and I don’t think I implied I thought Meuh was town anywhere. I think this is more of an issue with how you are reading my posts then anything on my part. The only part to talk about is the confidence bit you mentioned but it’s kinda just how I like to talk until later in the game where I have more info. I struggle a lot to post confidently when games don’t really have content to do that with. To skip some motions when I refer to content I don’t mean pages, posts, cases or emotions, I mostly mean shifting votes on places that are under pressure and flips which can’t come this early in a game no matter how many pages you have.

how did you expect this convo to go?

Tbh this conversation is really weird to me, I don't know what you are getting at since all my responses seem not very alignment indicative.
Implosion didn't speak to me as far as I was aware so I didn't have a specific expectation on why he voted me. I had genuine curiosity about it so I could figure out his alignment.

Like did you want me to have an expectation and if so what would it be?

[beeboy]

Unproductive they’ll either start playing or get replaced, they are so inactive I don’t think voting them will change anything and might even scare them off the thread ngl.

[beeboy]

Beeboy by all rights you should be a scum but idk, I feel like I should scumread you more if you're actually scum and that's not a good feeling and I'm not sure if its that you're town or if I'm just overrating how sure I should be?

Your case on me isn't very good and is based on an inaccurate representation of my posts.

[beeboy]

Beeboy do you have any recent offsite/alt games?

My last played game where I didn't just idle out was like 1 year ago.

[beeboy]

Actually I think longer? It was not the last Mafia Universe anniversary game but the game before that.

[beeboy]

I agree, your responses don't feel AI and I was wondering if the level of awareness you had was.

I feel as though this is more just the fault of the questions being asked? There isn't really room to reply in any other way, unless you are trying to just poke me to see if I slip up.

[beeboy]

I like beeboy. The push on him doesn't feel right. It might be town that's just happy to put there vote somewhere

I like you too frog wizard

[beeboy]

I’ve seen the 1v1 my stance on it seems obvious, i have pretty little to add that hasn’t already been said.

It’s mostly just the way they handled Ari felt evasive then it happened again when I called there read on me bad. I feel like for a player who really likes to talk and explain thoughts they tend to just avoid discussion points at times.

Mechanically do we need to flip a slot like Alisae or is it fine leaving em around relative to a normal game btw.

[beeboy]

Shirou to me is very obvious town btw.

[beeboy]

Shirou to me is very obvious town btw.

What am I?

Town read you early but it fell through with the Ari interaction you had and I didn’t like your vote on me either. Although you are an active enough poster to where I don’t care to vote you right now since there is a lot of information being created I can use to read you later on. So we don’t have to worry about talking about it right now, because I don’t really want to talk about it either ngl.

[beeboy]

I guess talking about it is fine, that’s part of the game I’m just unlikely to reply to a wall with over 1-3 sentences for a slot I don’t plan to vote is more what I’m saying.

[beeboy]

Happy Birthday Taly!!

[beeboy]

Why did implosion just fall off a cliff?

[beeboy]

I guess there posting but I haven't felt they have made many contributions in the past while.

[beeboy]

I'm really not happy with the sequence of events that lead to my being effectively outed even though I went to the trouble to make an alt in a period where I hadn't had any site activity in several months but if everyone wants to put me in that bin then sure

I have absolutely no idea who you are

+1

My vote on

beeboy

feels stale but I'm wondering about an alternative that my townreads actually agree with.

Why do you need your town reads to agree with you

i have no clue about beeboy

I know that shirou's meta on him is accurate in that scum!beeboy will often just not post and flake completely but his posting this game doesn't really move the needle for me at all.

I don't really know what he's doing? and it's not like he isn't here, he does pop in and make comments that show an understanding of what's going on in the thread but he's just not doing much? I dunno how fair it is to expect town!beeboy to be doing something. He does feel pretty calm in response to the pressure which is kind of ??

There is nothing about the push on me I particularly care to address that I haven't already. We aren't really talking about me very much despite me being the top vote.

[beeboy]

I should prob post my reads so people have reasons to retroactively justify there votes on me when they get asked about it.




Shirou - Town
Taly - Town

Merlyn - I get the vibe they aren't trying to incorporate themselves in the town block, please people with there posts, or push read, they are just posting thoughts which is generally a townie approach

Keyleth - Idk why they are here I just like there general vibes in there posts.
Sakura - Townie, but also feels super lowkey at the same time which makes me not want to push her up.

Alisae - AFK, not alignment indicative
Aristeia - Null cause Null
Brown Eyes - Initially town read them, but they feel disconnnected more recently, don't think it's alignment indicative but I don't want to leave them in my town piles.

Dann - Im not sure right now, I scumread him at one point but my interest in his slot kinda died off?
Dunn - My read on him keeps bouncing around but his push on me is starting to get boring

Implosion - Initially town read them but they feel disconnected more recently, but this time in a bad way.

Mandate - There push on me feels manufactured, I don't like there interaction with Ari, I'm not actually sure why this slot is globally town read
Meuh - Kinda icky slot for reasons already stated

[beeboy]

I should prob post my reads so people have reasons to retroactively justify there votes on me when they get asked about it.




Shirou - Town
Taly - Town

Merlyn - I get the vibe they aren't trying to incorporate themselves in the town block, please people with there posts, or push read, they are just posting thoughts which is generally a townie approach

Keyleth - Idk why they are here I just like there general vibes in there posts.
Sakura - Townie, but also feels super lowkey at the same time which makes me not want to push her up.

Alisae - AFK, not alignment indicative
Aristeia - Null cause Null
Brown Eyes - Initially town read them, but they feel disconnnected more recently, don't think it's alignment indicative but I don't want to leave them in my town piles.

Dann - Im not sure right now, I scumread him at one point but my interest in his slot kinda died off?
Dunn - My read on him keeps bouncing around but his push on me is starting to get boring

Implosion - Initially town read them but they feel disconnected more recently, but this time in a bad way.

Mandate - There push on me feels manufactured, I don't like there interaction with Ari, I'm not actually sure why this slot is globally town read
Meuh - Kinda icky slot for reasons already stated

Your bottom 4 reads are the 4 people who were voting for you.

I know that, I don't think my wagon is town driven.

[beeboy]

I think scum are either voting me or inactive right now.
And I don't think that's a bad way to think when part of the reason I'm being voted is poor content/lack of content when like there is multiple people doing less than me :V

It feels super strange to me.

[beeboy]

Then why is scum not pushing those players over you?

Easier to stay on me then it is to adjust your vote especially when voting me is generally accepted. Some people on me probably have real conviction Unless people think pressuring me with votes and nothing more is going to lead to results.

Like I can see 2-3 eople poeing out afks and voting me but how are 5 people poeing through multiple afks and low posters to get to me. But no way 5 people are voting me without a few just being opportunistic given what is going on in the game.

Also it's kinda unfair to say I can't scum read people for voting me when its a combination of POE, you not moving and mandate who literally ignored my post in response to there read on me. Where in that post I pointed out they literally just made some stuff up. Like why would I town read my wagon it's genuinely not a good wagon there is nothing redeeming about it.

[beeboy]

1) I don't even slightly agree that I misrepresented you, the only thing that approaches misrepresentation was your vote on Meuh which

I think I interpreted altogether reasonably

2) what's the endgame of misrepresenting you to get people to vote you to then decide not to Lim you without really engaging with any of your arguments as scum, like, isn't that just objectively picking a fight with you for no reason, if I'm going to derail as scum (why would I) wouldn't I be motivated to engage in this

You yourself commented that sometimes as town you cba to address people you aren't gonna be voting anyway and I have a particularly hard time interacting with you in productive ways so...

I think the take that your wagon was scum motivated is, like, 1.8/10 max on a good day from your point of view and frankly you should be way more concerned about people tmiing you town,

your iso just objectively isn't great my dude

and everything that is making you not get limmed falls into the "beeboy is wolfy but we think he's village for spicy reasons" category

In regards to the bolded I don't think you did and it is also half the point by now. I think you evaded talking about Dann with Ari and you evaded talking about my read. I don't even care if you can explain it at this point because it doesn't change the larger issue that you chose not to initially.

And while I said I would reply with 1-3 sentences I think doing so with warning is different from completely ghosting a discussion point all together? This feels like another misrepresentation ngl. I don't see how warning someone you'll do a small reply to not disrespect a wall is somehow comparable to just ghosting a post all together which is both different from a short reply and not something I would characterize as "trying to be respectful". Not to say ghosting isn't respectful or you need to be respectful in a game of mafia, it's just not actually comparable :V

Like what you can't be assed to reply to my post so you can instead spend your time calling them bad without context, that doesn't make sense.

Second bolded is kinda bs cause you barely supported that outside a point on my Meuh vote that you never really addressed me calling it out? You don't really care or want me to address the read is what I'm getting at.

[beeboy]

2) what's the endgame of misrepresenting you to get people to vote you to then decide not to Lim you without really engaging with any of your arguments as scum, like, isn't that just objectively picking a fight with you for no reason, if I'm going to derail as scum (why would I) wouldn't I be motivated to engage in this

Unable to justify why you misrepresented me and or an inability to explain the Dann read. It's not an end goal it's just how town and scum react to making posts based on information they originally misunderstood. At the time of your post regardless of alignment you probably thought there was build up or some kind of grandiose to my Meuh read. Misrepresenting someone isn't scummy, it's how you move forward from it for the most part. Either by being so stubborn in certain ideas your town or by backpeddling after realizing the mistake. You don't really fall into either of those categories.

[beeboy]

How about you give me 24 hours and I'll more coherently explain why I voted you in the first place and we can revisit this discussion with that on the table

I have zero wim to do something like that right now but I do see (and agree with) the idea that you have a right to be bothered by my not addressing your arguments and then turning around and calling your reads bad

If you want, I'll never turn down a discussion, but you are talking like my read is like "I am voting you for misrepresenting me" when my read is "I am reading you because on multiple instances I found it strange you wouldn't engage in a discussion". You don't think that explaining your read to me is going to change anything on your end is going to change anything, I don't read you the way I am because you misrepresent me.

And explaining your initial read doesn't explain why you just chose to ignore my post? Which I assume your reply was just you couldn't be bothered to as you top post while voting me, and let's be real if a top poster went to you and said "I didn't feel like putting in the effort to talk to you as I voted you for not doing much" what would you do?

[beeboy]

VOTE: Implosion
Let's nudge here, why don't we?

VOTE: implosion

[beeboy]

VOTE: Implosion
Let's nudge here, why don't we?

VOTE: implosion

????

I've just felt like voting implo for a bit ngl.
ignoring the obvious bits like, that vote doesn't clear them from being partners, i can be wrong on a read, and moving my vote around helps me change my view on the game.

[beeboy]

Beeboy voting for me is really confusing?
Cause seemingly he wants to shake things up to get people to acquire scumreads and also thinks there’s scum in active players… but like how does a vote on me accomplish either?
I’m not particularly active here, I have more posts than him but not even by a super significant amount and my posts haven’t been super content heavy, so idk how it fits into the idea of scum in the actives (unless “the actives” is the vast majority of players)
and I’m already being thrown out as a theoretical vote or an actual vote? Beeboy talks about the looming threat of a wagon on him or Alisae even though Shirou and I have had a much more real threat of one for a while? His vote doesn’t actually shake things up
It feels disjointed

I still hate Beeboy's vote on me and the gap between his outlook on the game and his actual actions, unless I missed something I don't think this has been resolved in the slightest

Not sure how to comment on this btw.
I kind of voted you on the notion of at the time people were talking about voting me but not voting me which was annoying me. So I basically went "its stupid to talk about voting someone then not do it since it costs nothing to vote someone", then I realized it was hypocritical of me to say that and not having a vote placed.

I am acting a lot on memory though but those were like my key feelings whether or not I actually made posts about it.

[beeboy]

beeboy your view of the game feels unbelievable to me. I'd expect you to reevaluate if your poe was all players who voted for you not lean into it because your theory seems really unlikely to me.

Idk maybe I play too many MU mashes where scum really do just pile votes down in large groups at a rate well above rand.
In my head its 1-2 scum on my wagon and 1-2 scum in the nulls or above which is reasonable to say imo even if the latter pool is people pushing me. I think the actual odds of there being 2 scum in a sample of 5 random people is actually pretty high as well :V

I maintain my stance because I think it's current 2 scum in my scum pool and 1 in the nulls feels reasonable to me. As much as there is a lot of ways to frame it as a bad take i should re-evaluate and I didn't notice how I was forming reads and sorta just doubled down when you made your post I still like buy what I was selling.

To address the more game based arguments made I don't think scum play around random Day 1 mid game vote counts that will be forgotten people don't usually VCA random mid points in the game from what I remember playing here or any of the other games I've played. I think that entire notion is more talk then something to care about in practice.

[beeboy]

Like as much as people are floored by posts I am making at the same time am shocked people think that I me believing a group of 5 people voting me wouldn't contain multiple scum. It feels pretty likely to me actually.

[beeboy]

i dont feel like ive resolved my opinion of

beeboy

, i think its not impossible my grievances are playstyle, yet they dont possess very detailed reads and POV's

i find their thoughts about their wagon somewhat relatable, albeit likely incorrect as i townread several of the wagon

the dynamic of voting should change for the read to become more effective

I liked beeboy's posting on page 53 - he felt a lot more confident than I've ever seen him post as mafia.

Have we played together before?

[beeboy]

I don't know if I want to vote Mandate again.

[beeboy]

I meant, Meuh.

[beeboy]

The influx of votes on them makes me uncomfortable especially with both Implosion and Mandate wanting to vote there.
So it's like even if I still scum read Meuh I'm worried about how my other scum reads voting there which is making me want to re-evaluate.

[beeboy]

beeboy - Why is the wagon enough to make you re-evaluate, when theoretically a bus could occur within your scumreads?

This is kinda WIFOM to a degree, like it could be bussing but if I had to weigh my odds it lowers the odds overall.

I also never said I reevaluated to Meuh being town I just don't want to vote there until I figure out how I feel about the game. I don't think even if my other reads are correct it would clear Meuh here, talking super hypothetically for the sake of this reply.

[beeboy]

What do you need to resolve in order to vote confidently?

A town read on one of implosion or Meuh that doesn't hinge on the read of the other.

[beeboy]

What do you need to resolve in order to vote confidently?

A town read on one of implosion or Meuh that doesn't hinge on the read of the other.

If I can't achieve this I guess I just decide whoever I scum read more.

[beeboy]

What do you need to resolve in order to vote confidently?

A town read on one of implosion or Meuh that doesn't hinge on the read of the other.

Is your current stance that you think we're both scummy but not scum together? Do you solidly want one of the two of us to be the lim today, at this point in time?

Nah we were just talking about what would make me vote confidently which was lost in the reply chain.
Which is like that would be the condition to make me either start to case you or move onto Meuh as the leading wagon.

But also the Meuh vote is also tied to Mandate and not just you. :V

[beeboy]

What do you need to resolve in order to vote confidently?

A town read on one of implosion or Meuh that doesn't hinge on the read of the other.

Is your current stance that you think we're both scummy but not scum together? Do you solidly want one of the two of us to be the lim today, at this point in time?

Nah we were just talking about what would make me vote confidently which was lost in the reply chain.
Which is like that would be the condition to make me either start to case you or move onto Meuh as the leading wagon.

But also the Meuh vote is also tied to Mandate and not just you. :V

Sorry I only replied to the second sentence, the answer to the first one is yes. But due to the "larger pile of "scum" voting Meuh I am least inclined to vote them right now.

[beeboy]

I never actually tried to stop you from voting Meuh I'm just stating that I don't want to move my vote back there at this moment in time.

[beeboy]

Twerk was super effective actually.

[beeboy]

I don’t think this game is intense.

[beeboy]

Merlyn is in the PoE for me and I am trying to understand why she is so terrified of Implosion that she is saying some things that I consider at best pepega and at worst insidiously toxic to healthy gameplay.

Hey. So I'm gonna ask you to tone down the rhetoric because you are starting to make this into an unfun game for me every time we interact. Saying that I'm 'terrified' or that I'm said anything 'insidiously toxic' is untrue and coming really close to crossing a line with me.

+1 to be careful with some things you say. I’ve ultimately found you fun to play with so I don’t mean for you to take this the wrong way but I agree with this at times when reading your stuff.

[beeboy]

Wait mandate have we played together before?

[beeboy]

I personally think that Meuh is town. However, I won't really have any say in who we will be sparing, and reading the thread mood right now it seems unlikely that Meuh is going to get spared. So I may be willing to concede this elimination, hoping that perhaps I am wrong and that Meuh is a "strong scum player" as you put it.

What is your implosion read?
Do you have any spicy takes on any of the "afks", which is mostly just Alisae and BrownEyes atp.

[beeboy]

I have not played mafia in four years.

I made my account 2 and a half years ago? How could we have played together

I love playing with Mandate and Meuh the accounts that were made before 2016 when I was most active.

[beeboy]

page top

[beeboy]

beeboy

do you have any commentary on being in my PoE virtually most of this game?

Something omg

I don't really care no, i think you are town

[beeboy]

*dies*

Does my take bother you / feel like tmi?

[beeboy]

I can pretend to be mad about it if it makes you enjoy the game more imo

[beeboy]

Perhaps (about the tmi) but I also doubt if my suspicion of you is warranted because that's not a thought I would have with other players in the same scenario.

I just don't think calling your wagon scum makes much sense.

fyi, i just happened to scum read people on my wagon and didn't think "why are you scum reading your wagon" was a reason to re-evaluate.
I agree with the statement it doesn't make sense to think my wagon is scum, but that isn't my thought process.

I feel like what I said got twisted at some point and I've just let it slide.

[beeboy]

Which is maybe a valid way to twist my words cause I think I explained why I wouldn't adjust my reads more then I actually explained the reads themself.

[beeboy]

Who do you think is the major proponent of that narrative shift on your stance

beeboy

?

No idea, it feels like an accident so I am not calling it misrepresentation on purpose. Twisting my words is also probably not accurate either, I am just not sure what to call it.
Me and Dunn had a really long conversation about it, this is likely where you got that idea, but I don't think it was a malicious one on his part. Or at least I don't think the malicious part was us reaching the point where people thought I was scum reading my wagon for the reason , since Dunn has stated he wondered why I wouldn't re-eval not like the narrative you said.

I've thought about it already in all honesty. And there isn't a point in crying about since Dunn said my stance was reasonable with my perspective and the general act of not re-evaluating was still scummy for people.

[beeboy]

x2 Page Top combo

[beeboy]

I really don't think scum says the last 5 posts

beeboy

has.

I kinda disagree, why would I not clarify my post as scum in regards to what you said.
Especially given arguing against half the point would probably look bad for me from a reads standpoint.

[beeboy]

I volunteer as tribute for being tunneled.

[beeboy]

Why correct me when my read benefits you?

I am a bored butt

[beeboy]

Also I value your explanation tbh.

[beeboy]

I don't think Ari picks a fight with you as scum, because as scum it's unlikely to make a difference.
Especially given Mercy route is more about farming town reads then it is about actually solving.

[beeboy]

I mean exactly what I said, BE gets 2/3 scum in bottom 3 because she isn't trying to make excuses for people

Beeboy I honestly do not care what your reads are anymore

Ok I won't engage you anymore if you want.

[beeboy]

@Mod Declaring VLA for 3 days

[beeboy]

Hello everyone I’m back, what did I miss barring the obvious new player list

[beeboy]

Sorry I have a very busy weekend

[beeboy]

I think i'll be able to get to this tomorrow work just kinda piled up this weekend :V

[beeboy]

tomorrow morning (real)

[beeboy]

VOTE: Freedom

[beeboy]

It is now morning

[beeboy]

beeboy

how do you read 2373 and 2374?

I find conspiracy theories are more likely to come from town so maybe I'm the wrong person to ask.
But I like those 2 posts.