Toriel's Patience (end)

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Postgame starts now

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I mean, I'm starting to feel better about limming Merlyn

I'm just too lazy to do the necessary work to solve her so I tread water instead

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Maybe I do that now instead of being cringe

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I'm not finished but yeah I think she is just scum here

Which is really fucking refreshing LOL

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Thanks for watching

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I'm actually somewhat scumreading Meuh I don't hate it just

I think Merlyn is scum and I'm gonna cross reference more games before I commit but I think we do get a safe scum Lim d1 here

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VOTE: Merlyn

Alright Percival here and I have decided you are not Merlyn

You are Morgana and you are a spy and you are not going on missions until m6

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I'm actually not quite sure how to explain it but I'll think about it and give you the best answer I can.

The simple answer is she feels very différent as town and as scum consistently.

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There's a lot that's not just that though

The way she interacted with me felt like probing in a certain way that according to what I remember of my experiences is nearly always scum

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Was hoping I'd be around for the brown eyes catchup but it's not to be.

Ttyl

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1) I don't even slightly agree that I misrepresented you, the only thing that approaches misrepresentation was your vote on Meuh which I think I interpreted altogether reasonably

2) what's the endgame of misrepresenting you to get people to vote you to then decide not to Lim you without really engaging with any of your arguments as scum, like, isn't that just objectively picking a fight with you for no reason, if I'm going to derail as scum (why would I) wouldn't I be motivated to engage in this

You yourself commented that sometimes as town you cba to address people you aren't gonna be voting anyway and I have a particularly hard time interacting with you in productive ways so...

I think the take that your wagon was scum motivated is, like, 1.8/10 max on a good day from your point of view and frankly you should be way more concerned about people tmiing you town, your iso just objectively isn't great my dude and everything that is making you not get limmed falls into the "beeboy is wolfy but we think he's village for spicy reasons" category

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Merlyn is giving me a headache

Actually this game is giving me a headache

I forgot that one of the consequences of playing mafia is your brain never really goes into shut off mode, it's so hard to relax, your head always goes back to pairings and events when you get a spare moment and it's exhausting to never rly disengage from

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Idfk who scum is lol

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How about you give me 24 hours and I'll more coherently explain why I voted you in the first place and we can revisit this discussion with that on the table

I have zero wim to do something like that right now but I do see (and agree with) the idea that you have a right to be bothered by my not addressing your arguments and then turning around and calling your reads bad

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I mean I think that historically it is not an even slightly good argument for scumreading me but on a personal level I can see why it is shitty to play with

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I'm too deeneergized to do much rn

I'm just gonna sleep

Something something 3 posts later idk about Merlyn lol

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I have thoughts but I'll post the more meaningful ones later

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I'll give one meaningful one

I am pretty doubtful that implosion is scum here

But I'll give the possibility a full read over later

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I don't really think the arguments for or against Implo scum even address the reasons why in my view he is likely town and the case against him seems to exist more as "these are the reasons why a scum could potential do some of these things that he is doing" as opposed to existing in th space of "he shouldn't be town doing X" which is like, nice for trying to counter townreads and I grok the argument of okay we aren't finding scum we should reeval the less locked in townreads but

Yeah Keyleth I think so too, like I think if we just find and eliminate scum this game will get a lot easier probably

I do want to take my time and think carefully and respond to things from both Beeboy and Merlyn before I proceed with anything though which I suppose I will do now

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I think I'm just gonna stop this thing I'm doing and start playing more openly again

My goal with this game was essentially to bait a specific reaction from scum. I wanted to build a townblock that was good enough to win to force scum to react to it but I also wanted to have a low enough obvious ability to generate thread presence and have for there to be potential weaknesses in that town block to put it forward and then wait for specific ways that I was expecting scum to try to dismantle it. I didn't really want to discourage a wagon on Dannflor because I wanted to see who would push it and why and what else would go on if I took off the gas. I remain fairly confident of the general strength of the townblock (thought it may have at most 1 scum, but probably doesn't). I actually am not sure if Merlyn is the scum-trying-to-destroy-townblock that I was looking for because I really just think she tilt voted me for not doing what she wanted (even if she's scum I think this is true) but I think that we did find one in Beeboy, who has not actually himself had much interest in pushing anyone scum but has been pretty continually attacking and shading townreads on people and implying that the townblock is scum heavy while not really being interested in instigating a conflict in any one person. The Meuh vote feels pretty done for the sake of doing things from where I'm standing but ymmv on that, I think 422 is pretty terrible, and there's a lot of tonal things that ping me regarding them.

I mean here's everything they say about Meuh:

Meuh had a strange opener, like the real one not the rvs vote, I’ll hold my breathe for now because I can sorta see myself over explaining like that as either alignment. But over explaining simple NAI things is more of a scum trait even if it’s not concrete. As I kept reading though I find it hard to care.

don’t really think Meuh has done anything special in all honesty.

I already made my post about it, I think there opening was wolfy and they have a few posts they got credit for that feel null or almost even wolfy to me.
#448 for example can easily be reactionary to the question and generally just make me feel Meuh looks worse instead of better.

It's... really not convincing, there's a lot of words that don't really say anything and even though this is supposedly the big scumread there's a lot of waffle wording, like "null or almost even wolfy" or saying something "can easily be" reactionary.

It's why i think the actives contain more scum then not?
In general if everyone is comfortable waiting to vote out a lurker you don't want to place a vote and thus shift the gamestate in a way that makes it more readable. A lack of readability generally favors the wolves since when playing at complete random I believe wolves tend to win statistically but I could be wrong.

basically stale discussion = discussion is controlled by people who don't care that it's stale = discussion controlled by not town.

This in particular just feels straight openwolf, I don't really buy that Beeboy feels that the game state is especially stale or unreadable on the second (third now?) day of a game and pretty much the only person who is openly waiting to vote a lurker is me but he stops short of saying it and even outside of that this comment is just so bad, like I am not buying for one moment a town says "a lack of readability generally favors the wolves".

Regarding Dannflor: the claim was made that scum!he just lazily townread me for having a strong presence. I don't think anyone has pushed us as SvS so I don't need to defend that accusation. What I have to say regarding that is that he -didn't- townread me. Explicitly. He townread someone else that I also townread but didn't give a townread to me. I had to prompt it and he still wouldn't give me an explicit townread, just a lean. In contrast to what other people say about him giving me an easy townread I think it's kind of obvious that he was never fully comfortable in that townread and I also think it's kind of obvious that it has to do with him alt guessing me as a strong scum player. And I felt all this as it was going on and it felt far outside the bounds of something that Dannflor as scum would think to fake. He was also just very, idk, in the flow on the first page of the game and didn't feel forced or offbeat at all and I'm very much struggling with anyone characterizing his play as wanton scum!Aggression because there's the interesting vote hop taly->Keyleth that I really liked plus the fact that he didn't really, like, push anyone that hard? I also struggle with the characterization of him as meme voting because I think he was continually providing game relevant content while he was here so the push on him just entirely doesn't grok with the ISO of his that I've read.

Anyway I'll VOTE: Beeboy now and spice up the game since although I really really would like to have waited at least a couple days for Alisae and others to do more things I think that my being hands off is just not gonna happen in this game.

I’ve never once stated it to be a major read on my part and very close to my vote post I stated I see votes as a free resource to just use because you can. Like half your comment on this is stating this is a big read from me when it very clearly just isn’t. Do you genuinely believe what your saying here and what kind of town pressures someone by misrepresenting them it’s not really hard to refute.

waffle wording is a personality trait and is almost never alignment indicative. It’s largely just a buzz word used to push people. I guess you can just disagree with this though since it’s not an objectively false statement I am relatively uncertain of things.

There isn’t anything else here I think I need to comment on.

I will make the claim that when a player who does not consistently type in the patterns that I am referring to types in those patterns it is a massive scumtell. There exist players who talk like that as town and for them it's null and I had concluded that it is null for you right around when I unvoted (because that was the teeth of my vote on you, you saying things that were "off" as opposed to the Meuh vote which was just more throwing fuel on the fire, it was never more than an oddity) and as for why I was disinterested in revisiting the discussion with you there were two reasons:

1) I don't really like saying "I had this read X for reason Y but decided it sucked and I wanted to do something else." I think it, I don't actually want to be saying it, especially in a case like this where the crux of my argument is something a lot of people would deem NAI (wrongly in my view) and I don't actually want to give people ammunition to discredit me in the future if I push someone on that basis. Especially because there was someone I had my eye on for similar reasons. Not that I'm consciously thinking about that kind of future instance but it subconsciously affects my disinterest in discussing it.

2) I'm sorta desperate to lock down scum and talking with you doesn't help me find scum because I'm pretty sure you aren't scum and when I switched votes I was already at like 70% and since I'm generally a universal townread there isn't really any strategic gain to trying to assuage your potential dislike of my slot as opposed to just moving forward and trying to find someone that I actually do want to lim. I can see how that's annoying/perturbing on a personal level and that's why I'm bothering now but I do believe the time I devoted to this has not helped town in any meaningful way, which I'm fine with but it makes going to this effort take a little bit of prompting.

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Actually I think I exhausted my mafia playing energy for now so I'll see you all later

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Keyleth have you tried anointing yourself town leader and declaring that you are leading a Lim on Meuh and ordering your fellow townies to follow

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What if I lead the wagon because it's what you want but I tell everyone it's because I want it and you can have that layer of protection from the results of the wagon

Idk if Merlyn is town which I sorta think she is then I think Meuh probably needs to go which is sad because I like her posting

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I actually think Meuh started sounding a lot worse when she was (I'm assuming) taken out of her comfort zone by the direction the game went so don't take this as me lacking personal enthusiasm just

I am exhausted

I mean I agree on Alisae but I don't want to wagon them D1 unless we stall til close to deadline (which I'm perfectly fine to do I don't mind not majjing a Lim) and e still hasn't done anything

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I see the lack of scumreads very differently than you do, Taly, but I am fine with you voting Ali. I just think that we are actually in a good position and will find scum, it's more a question of whether there's a lot of struggling to keep the town block together on day if we mislim that makes me so antsy about flipping scum.

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I think Alisae could be afk scum but if that's the case I doubt that e is afk because e is scum because e has reasons (not good ones imo but reasons) for being afk

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Sakura what's your general readslist

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Honestly I really didn't like the Implo case from Meuh and it's what put them from being a poe slot that I always had better votes

Keyleth you are one of the cool kids this game wdym

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I have you Sakura Taly Keyleth Dann Beeboy Brown Eyes (FTR I'm still not 100% sure here but again, she's town until she really earns being not) Implo and then another 3 people that I'm like sorta townreading but idk

I actually think that Meuhs case on Implo is like, objectively scummy in all worlds so I'm sorta baffled that it caused a read reset on her

But I'm not saying it's impossible that my confidence outstrips my abilities and I threw Implo!scum into the townbloc for being really cheeky scum, I just don't think it's likely


My thoughts are that either slot could be scum but are probably not good d1 lims and if they're scum we should Lim their buddies. I do have some town feels towards Ari but she could still easily be scum, with Shirou I'd rather just Lim his buddies because if he flips town I think it will be insanely bad for town. Also with Ari I don't really see the point in going after her if she is scum, like the world where we get punished is anti dunn ari Shirou but I think we can win that anyway? Probably?

Idk I think the Meuh Implo case is by far the scummiest thing in the game right now, and this game contains Beeboy's "unreadable games may favor scum" and just generally contains Dannflor the epitome of the aspect of the deepwolf

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I'm also a little confused by Dunnstral townreads, not because I scumread him but I consider him aggressively impossible to get a bead on this game

Also did BE just vanish again mid catchup (And never told me why they TR me)

She has struggled every time she has tried to play mafia in the last few years so I'm going to give her a lot of space to do things on her timetable

Is Mandate-Taly-Keyleth-Sakura a mutual townbloc?

Sure but

If you wanna be my townbloc
You gotta townbloc my friends

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I mean I think that in the end we are gonna go spare here regardless of Dunnstral's role or alignment so I hope that he is in fact town and I don't really need to be convinced on it

I just don't personally understand it

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Idk I think the Meuh Implo case is by far the scummiest thing in the game right now

If you have the energy to do so, can you explain why.

internal screaming

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I think my energy levels are at exactly zero

I will maybe do that later maybe tomorrow idk

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Funnily enough people talking about townbinning Meuh is giving me the energy I need to actually case her BC I think there's actually a lot here people are overlooking that's mass marketable so, I think I will get this show on the road

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Gonna start with the pre-implosion case stuff and then move onto the implosion case stuff, there's three things I didn't like one of which was fairly severe but I was kinda ignoring it because the slot seemed not like the best odds of flipping scum otherwise.

This doesn't help Sakura as a wolf though, does it?

what doesn't

If you're a wolf you want to be townread so you go over or push some wrong villagers but Sakura is just, doing neither? Unless that's the point to get townread but that's wifom ya know?

This feels kind of reductive? Wolves post to have thread presence, to be engaged in the game, to have fun... pushing agenda is nice but not every single wolf post is anchored on that and not every wolf post has deep and complex connotations. Wolves absolutely just post random thoughts to look more engaged, which tend to make you look more townie (or at the very least less appealing to lim), and nothing in Sakura's posting indicates that she isn't

trying

to be townread. Wraps around to the classic "if I'm a wolf, how come I'm not being townread?" argument, as if getting townread is this guaranteed thing to gain with certain posts rather than something that wolves fail at a bunch.

So a lot of people called this a good post and I can see why but I think empirically this is a post that comes from scum more of the time. I am confident this was empirically true, I don't know if that's changed, but I want to point that out there. It also exists in the space of "attacking people getting townread without obviously being anti townblock".

Never thought I'd be playing a game with town Dunnstral, but I think it's finally happening!

This is just very performative and strange! Like I know that Meuh is a performative player but this particular post set me off pretty hard at the time and every time I've reread I've had to stop for a while and think about this one.

Dear Meuh, you spend two of the few content posts you've arguing against Sakura and in the first "perplexed" sounds like it has a negative connotation, but by the end...you find her townie?

Hmmmm

Were you planning to betray me again?!

VOTE: Meuh

The word “perplexed” is deliberate there, it’s negative in terms of her ideas, that seem out there to me, but not her actual alignment.
I argue against

Keyleth’s argument

(which was bad regardless of Sakura’s alignment), then took a look at the ISO and got vague townvibes
You’re imagining implications for reads from the surface of my posting and not the actual thought process I have, there’s no read on Sakura that I actually voice before I agree with Ari, you’re drawing that line, and you’re wrong for doing that! Raises your scum equity a bunch cause I think you’re capable of more substantial reads, was wondering who would react when I agreed with Ari on Sakura, but this is sad…

Now here's the one that I actually found very off.

I think that Meuh's argument is actually objectively correct here. She said someone was, basically, weird. She then turned around and townread them. Which is fine I think that is a good progression that can easily come from town. What really stands out about this is the lack of teeth with regards to Shirou. She takes this bizarre middle ground where she calls him wrong, says he's imagining things, then calls him more equity scum because "he's capable of more substantial reads". All of this doesn't sit right at all, I think that if Meuh is town she is neither so performative about explaining what she was ""actually thinking"" and rather forces Shirou to justify his own position nor so wishy washy with regards to Shirou. I think that ending this by saying that it raises his scum equity a bunch without being willing to vote him is bizarre. I think that Meuh is factually not interested in solving Shirou by the way she played it but is also strangely defensive and I get big scum caught for wrong reasons / cross bus vibes from all of this.

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Gut from pages 1-4 is Dann town (though I think I remember seeing that's someone consensus?)

I think sakura is already (widely?) townread but this cements it pretty hard for me sort of in the vein of the philosophy that I think Shirou mentioned earlier of trying to read people off a few key posts, which I think I kind of agree with or at least am interested in thinking about as a philosophy of forum mafia.

Anyone else find this scummy? Implo invoking how much a player is already being townread/thread consensus on an issue when posting his take on it is kind of off to me. It's not really a consideration I have when posting reads as town. It comes more from scum thinking about the optics and the ramifications of their read than a townie just dropping some thoughts.

Idk!
Idk. This is very fake and performative. I don't know what else to say about it. I don't think this is how town!Meuh presents thoughts like this if she has them. The content itself is like, milquetoast but the presentation pings me like mad.

Yeah I'm looking at Implo's ISO and there's nothing town indicative there!
The more substantial reads are townreads that are just really easy to make from an informed perspective. I don't think any of said townreads are pushing boundaries to an extent where I think Implo is particularly trying to sort people
The scumreads are just kind of boring and weak? Implo has little actual insight on it, I think the most substantial scum argument so far is the one against me which is super weak
There's just nothing there that actually indicates Implo thinking about the game like a townie

More fake performative etc.

More importantly is the phrasing of the scumreads. She says it's "easy to make from an informed perspective". Even ignoring the weird question of what that is even supposed to mean, the case is basically that Implosions townreads are all generally townread and his scumreads are weak. Which, well, sure. But this case is applicable to at least half of the lobby and it's something we're talking about constantly. It also caps off with "nothing actually indicates Implosion thinking of this game like a townie" which again like the earlier thing she isn't saying Implosion is scum she's saying there's no evidence Implosion is town and I verified this is not something that she does as a meta thing.

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I've also gone back and forth in my head a lot but Meuh saying stuff like "implosion doesn't have thoughts outside of thread" essentially trying to use the opposite of my logic on Dannflor is kinda out there. Like I can't call it scummy because it's just too out there but... I really struggle with believing Meuh sees me making that read and then immediately turns around and uses it against someone and it reads like just words to me, particularly when I feel like Implosion doesn't really exist exceptionally in the space of lacking an out of game continuity to his posting. And that's what Meuhs case really looks like to me, there's a lot of words but in the end the case boils down to Implosions positioning is rather milquetoast and I don't think it takes 700 words to say that, I think that town!Meuh just says I think this dude is taking boring positions and not really doing anything and I wanna vote him for it.

This game is going too fast

I unironically wish the game was literally double the length

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I wish the game was around 90 pages right now I think

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Also like as a general rule I'm not saying never but town rarely write things like all the stuff Meuh wrote about the metaphor of the seeds and the watering and the sprouting, it happens on rare occasions but combined with everything else I think she is just big scums and I feel bad because she's been calling me hard town all game and unironically I don't think my mental is good for voting on people who townread me. I wish my scumreads would just all call me scum so I could feel better about it but yeah I think that in a lobby with very few people that are actually very scummy Meuh is kinda really really scummy and an outlier and is the first person that I've felt like ok we should Lim her today

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And before someone says wait but didn't you call all these other people confirmed scum before

well yes but I lied then or I lied now or something idk

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Smh I made my Meuh case because you wanted to lazily sheep someone and then you just unvote

Angry

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Best parrot.

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No, Who isn't in this game.

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I'm bad at this game.

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I don't have the answers, only the benefit of experience.

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Sorry not trying to bully you nap well

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Well I don't wanna Lim Dann and Meuhs response has done nothing to make me reconsider

If anything in a vacuum I'd say I'm more enthused but I think it would be more accurate to say my enthusiasm hasn't shifted

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I don't think he can fake everything he did

That said I really think his play just isn't scummy and he should be given the time he needs?

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Aaaaaa

I wanna Lim Meuh you bullies

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The big bad mandate is starting a wagon.

He has to be stopped.

And I have to stop him.

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You want a prediction about the weather, you're asking the wrong Phil. I'll give you a winter prediction: It's gonna be cold, it's gonna be grey, and it's gonna last you for the rest of your life.

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He might be alright.

*car explodes*

Probably not.

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I don't wanna you can't make me

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Brown Eyes put Meuh as scum
Keyleth had Meuh as scum
Sakura and you had Meuh as scum til you 180d
I have meuh as scum
Beeboy had meuh as scum (but won't vote cuz he has to stop Mandate)
Shirou had Meuh as scum
Implo had meuh as scum
Dann has one interaction with Meuh which hints he doesn't like her

Who is the poe scumread

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Mandate has to be fucking stopped

Alright fucking 1v1 me Taly you cheeky parakeet

Am gonna rap battle you into the next century

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This cheeky tropical bird which thinks twerking at me will earn my mercy

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I do not have much to provide besides memes and shitposting

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I sheep Sakura, taly is scum, game is so fucking easy

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What if we all just refuse to provide content and force Keyleth to lead every wagon and as soon as she votes someone we quickhammer them and if we lose we blame her

That would be very comedic

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There's something darkly comedic about the fact that I feel like I'm the only one making the game intense whatsoever and I would consider myself to be in maximum casual relaxed mode and people find the game intense

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Urge to shitpost is so high but I'll restrain myself because you'll probably take it badly xD

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I don't really think that if I'm scum you'll be able to prevent me from being spared at the time of my choosing but if I'm town you probably will

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I suppose that's the consequences of there existing three people who I believe will do their utmost to shut down my influence in any late game scenario and me choosing to Lim someone who says 'mandate is the most obvious town in the game' instead and really reinforces how I got to the point I did where limming someone who is a strategic enemy is just as good or better than limming scum if I can Poe half the game as non-strategic threat town

Like I truly fail to see the loss condition for town if I Lim 2/3 of the people who are already preempting to fight me in late game but I just have zero will to vote for people that I think are less likely scum over people I think are more

And just like that I realized I'm not signing up for another game after this, this is just a one off

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I'm saying that if I were truly playing to win I'd just kill you regardless of my read on you because your existence is lowering to town winrate when you're already trying to get yourself into a position to fight me later

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Brown Eyes' existence has a certain gravity

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I'm not afraid of Implo!scum, I've found it really annoying to push lims on him in the past but to my recollection I've never lost to him and I've never failed to catch them D1 so I don't know why you are this scared.

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I think that more than half of the playerlist is more threatening as scum than Implosion so the fact you're singling him out in a lobby with Alisae Shiro Sakura and I is just weird

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How would you feel if you were town and someone was just saying well I refuse to read you because you're too good as scum lol

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Would you say that?

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I don't have any response that I want to make.

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I think you're twisting my words way out of their intended context.

Merlyn is in the PoE for me and I am trying to understand why she is so terrified of Implosion that she is saying some things that I consider at best pepega and at worst insidiously toxic to healthy gameplay. As an add to that I pointed out I never personally considered Implosion hard to read. I do not claim I am 100% reading implosion correctly in this game and I noted that his inclusion in my 100% townread pool was more borne out of laziness and trusting my notes that people who (I'm gonna leave out exactly what I'm defining here because I don't think it helps anyone to know) do Something Implosion Did have been town 100% of the time. I don't know if I'm assigning that based on something that wasn't good enough for the designation or if the meta as changed or if frankly there were conditions to the read that I would have at one point implicitly understood that I no longer understand.

I have not played mafia in four years. This game has seen zero flips I have had zero way to test my tuning fork and see if it's at the right frequency. There are people that there are mountains of reasons to townread that I have been willing to sidestep that for but in the end you are asking for a player who has been away from the game for as long as they've played it to either be 100% accurate on reads or be scum because they said that at one point that they were capable of executing at that proficiency. I am somewhat confident because I somewhat trust the box of tools that I am left with but in the end I am an outsider playing with a box of tools that they do not fully understand trying to remember as much of what I learned playing this game obsessively for four years as possible. I do not see the slightest reason to spare Implosion over myself. I have not asked for that or made that claim, but I do think that Implosion is very likely town because I trust my read that far and also trust my reasons to scumread Meuh enough to ask for votes. I have not claimed any sort of burden of proficiency on a single read I've made this game unless I'm misunderstanding something and I really don't understand why you seem unable to separate the me that exists in the present day from the version or me that existed in the past that only ever existed in your imagination. I don't have any grudge with you nor am I obsessed with you but you are making this game very difficult for me to engage with by treating me like something/someone that I am not and do not wish to be.

I have forced no one to spare Implosion and I've forced no one to blindly follow my townreads but I have discouraged people voting my townreads and encouraged people voting my scumreads because I am a town player who wants to see people that I don't like limmed and people that I do like not limmed. Am I allowed to be that and only that?

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I think that trying to put good scum players in a bin where you don't treat them like other players is inherently insidiously toxic but it's not really a helpful discussion to have in the middle of this game.

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Sleep well.

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I'll just quickly acknowledge that the discussion around inherent toxicity doesn't really belong inside the game and I should leave it out of it and I'm sorry that my actions have made you feel that way Merlyn

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Wait mandate have we played together before?

Not answering this on principle even though I think you can solve the answer for yourself if it matters enough to you

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catchup speedrun any%

[Mandate]

I townread Meuh when she was scum in our only experience together, I do not believe I have a predisposition towards scumreading her or anything close to that and if anything think I am predisposed to townread her for tonal quirks that are generally more common in town than scum.

I think there is very little that could change my vote today but I'm open to hearing people push counter arguments. I simply believe that Implo and Dannflor are not scummy and that we are better off limming people who are scummy, not limming villagery people because their villagery actions could conceivably come from scum, which is the sum total of my perception of the pushes on both of those players. There is a case for Aristeia but my heart is entirely not in that vote and I would like to believe my heart would feel differently if she was scum. I am outright opposed to wagoning Beeboy, I think Shirou is both lower probability scum and insanely damaging if he flips town BC I think flipping Shirou town gives too much power to people who I believe are going to promptly run the game off a cliff, and I think Merlyn's play is just so alien to me that if other people townread her I am fine leaving it at that.

I also think that the Meuh case on Implosion is objectively scummy and there's nothing in it to townread besides effort so unless I was mistaken in thinking that she is considered a relatively strong scum player I'm entirely unfazed by people townreading them for it and in fact think that's a good sign I'm on the right track since most of the players are townread but I believe I have fairly good reasons to say other people's townreads on Meuh are poorly given.

[Mandate]

We have 11 days until deadline and I'd prefer we give users Brown Eyes Dannflor and Alisae time to participate so I'm not asking you to vote immediately but it does seem like Meuh must die

[Mandate]

Confusing you is fun so I won't explain

[Mandate]

Edward best trueblade

Mia fans in shambles

[Mandate]

I don't think their wim is towntelling
E had other stuff to do and e was doing it
It is nai

If Alisae is still not motivated to try I am willing to call them 99.99% scum because I think e could strategically decide to continue playing the afk card as scum because it's not getting punished even if I think es original afk is nai

I was kinda curious if the general lack of scumreads has been the scum's doing all along.

Very curious who you think this implicates and why

[Mandate]

There's something that I want to say but I'm struggling to phrase it in the right way that isn't more abrasive than it needs to be

[Mandate]

If you go cooperate with the players who think that I'm scum ringleader and we Lim Implo and he flips town what have we gained exactly when those same players will call my read on him TMI and push on me next?

I think that if you think I'm town my view of the game is entirely incongruous with Merlyn's whether she is town or scum and there's not really any compromise that works, you need to decide whose version of the game you believe in more and go with that because Merlyn is guaranteed townreading at least one scum and flipping Implo town isn't going to fix town unity whatsoever. The path to town unity is through flipping scum which I believe is Meuh and just deciding that town unity doesn't require listening to all voices. Beeboy saying his wagon is all the scum doesn't really need a seat at the table even if we think he's town. I don't want to comment further on Merlyn. If you individually think that Implosion is scum in spite of my dislike of the wagon and don't like the Meuh wagon despite all I've said then go ahead and wagon Implosion but don't expect it to fix any of the issues with town being unable to coordinate because town is simply never going to be able to fully coordinate in this game and we just have to play for enough votes to hit scum and accept that we are leaving some players out.

[Mandate]

I think that frequently I see players complain that people don't want to play scum anymore and that scum are disproportionately likely to sub out and what happened to there being more players who were considered scum superstars. I see that the mod in this game felt the need to warn players that playing against your wincondition in this game for future game wincondition is heavily frowned upon.

Then I turn around and see that the players who alt guessed me are by and large unwilling to commit townreads on me even though by any ordinary standard I've obvtowned like crazy and done tons of stuff that I have no reason to do as scum and have played in ways that are demonstrably bad for my wr as scum

I think that is insidiously toxic and terrible and I am never surprised when I hear people who are whining about the state of scum play on MS when I think back to my own experiences but I appreciate that this game at least lets me say for sure why no one wants to try as scum. Of course no one wants to use introspection and think about how their own collective actions create this situation. Player was good at scum but comes back after over four years of absence? Have 100% correct reads or be burden of proficiencies.

For what it's worth I don't think you're town anymore Aristeia, I do not think you can be this incapable of understanding me but I think you can be scum who doesn't want to because it's against your win condition

[Mandate]

I mean it's funny because BE assigned you none of that leverage to be human making a human error and ofc she ends up with better reads because I like to assume that you don't play like this as scum and it's just like, why should I even bother

[Mandate]

It's Ari/Meuh + Ali or Dunn btw

I don't think any other slots contain scum

[Mandate]

I mean exactly what I said, BE gets 2/3 scum in bottom 3 because she isn't trying to make excuses for people

Beeboy I honestly do not care what your reads are anymore

[Mandate]

I'd appreciate that

[Mandate]

Mandate scum strategy

1) don't get altguessed

there is no 2) I just win

[Mandate]

What is all this weebery

[Mandate]

I gave Aristeia a lot of chances because I simply didn't want to believe that the player would, in the position she was in of being told by the mod that I was in the game, exploit the situation so ruthlessly to try to get towncred. I think the complete lack of progress I've made despite extending her the entire gdp of Greece in olive branches says enough, I think if she was intellectually honest her scumteam vibe wouldn't be the most basic anti-Mandate-and-the-people-he-townreads-but-arent-universals but I think that in the position of her continuing to try to play up this conflict since she saw I was buying it initially it's the kind of thing she'd push to just make it in my face and make sure it's "clear" what she's doing but frankly I don't think anyone ever believes that it's exactly that as opposed to it just being the kind of team you push to signal an anti-Mandate stance.

I would be worried about Brown Eyes if I didn't consider the game basically solved.

[Mandate]

At least I can stop being personally perturbed by a lot of these interactions and just accept that scum gonna scum

[Mandate]

It's the specific set of 3 she's pushing that is the dead giveaway

Don't buy it for a minute

But I've been thinking about her quite a bit over the last few days because I actually thought you were significantly more town and I thought Merlyn probably ain't scum and Beeboy probably ain't scum and Sakura and Taly and Keyleth and Brown Eyes probably doesn't even make it this far and Dann and Implo and it was already pretty clear to me that my townread on ari was more "I would like to believe that scum doesn't do this in the position they are in" as opposed to "I have a good reason to believe this person isn't scum"

Like I was in a position where I'm forced to scumread Dunnstral which... like it's possible but man he is playing like dogshit as a scum on the teams I'm leaving him but he's playing pretty well (and ig normally?) as town and something is clearly missing

I do think she should townread me but I really really don't buy someone pushing anti rc implo Dann as anything besides scum posturing

[Mandate]

I think a town player with a coherent worldview who scumreads me would think Dunnstral is scum with me

Why I believe that I'll keep to myself because it's hard to articulate

[Mandate]

And NGL I think the buddy is just alisae

I don't think it's Dunn or BE or anything complicated

[Mandate]

Ari Ali svs makes so much sense BC

Ari is essentially treading water doing posture stuff to try to get townread later while pushing silly stuff now right

So if Meuh is kinda doing her own thing which isn't trying to directly advance scum wincon Ali doesn't really have a job on the scumteam, e doesn't really have any reason to do anything

So since e is busy with rl stuff anyway why not just afk, e isn't letting es team down because no one on es team is actually directly making any sort of plays

[Mandate]

ok

what is aristeia doing to win the game if that is the team ?

Just trying to seem like town who is hard paranoid of me and also setting up to try to ban my being spared if it comes to a 3rd or 4th spare where they (the scum collectively) had to kill other people

I have nothing else to say so the conversation is indeed over

[Mandate]

Your town but the only people you want to vote are people who your top townread has called town and you have no interest in going after people shading someone you consider obvtown? Strange

[Mandate]

I don't think she wants to openly block the Meuh wagon, she just wants to position where she can not support it and subtly encourage people to vote counterwagons on Dann and Implo which is where the viable counterwagons were

Frankly I don't think the endgame of her play was necessarily to scumread me in the late game, I'm not sure what it was, I think it was all just trying to get townread and then try to make some sort of break from her position depending on where the game was

[Mandate]

Like I think you guys are assuming she wants to fight me all game. I do not necessarily think that. I think she wants to keep that open but position as someone who is not really trying to get spared who can then get spared

[Mandate]

Like pause for a moment

There are a ton of people who think Ari is town for the belligerence towards me

They aren't the core townblock members but in a spare gameplan Ari is easily a d3/d4 spare if say we kill Mandate and Taly and spare Sakura and Keyleth or some variation of the same names

Why wouldn't Beeboy Merlyn Ari +1 scum hypothetically spare Aristeia?

But anyway this is kinda academic at this point I don't think arguing this serves any purpose besides making me feel smart


Well Shirou who else is scum is the first question

[Mandate]

I haven't townread Dunn. I think he's fine. I don't think I have strong townvibes there I just think his play makes zero fucking sense on any of the teams he'd be scum on but is relatively reasonable normal boring ish townplay in general

It's hard to want to scumread him, like if he's scum here I don't think he played amazing but it would make him a very very strong scum player simply for how coherently he played a difficult position to play

[Mandate]

Gray splits get the fuck outta here