Toriel's Patience (end)

[Freedom]

I've done some quick skims of ISOs.
implo and Dunn are prob both town.

[Freedom]

implo, I think is town because I'm not getting that vibe in his ISO that I got from reading that Coalition game.

[Freedom]

I'm probably going to ISO Ydra, seeing my predecessor is voting her.

[Freedom]

Followed by Meuh, since she's leading wagon.

[Freedom]

Anyways, expect more from me later.

[Freedom]

I'm probably going to ISO Ydra, seeing my predecessor is voting her.

Nevermind, Ydra is Mandate's replacement.
I think keeping my vote on her is fine for now.

[Freedom]

I'm probably going to ISO Ydra, seeing my predecessor is voting her.

Nevermind, Ydra is Mandate's replacement.
I think keeping my vote on her is fine for now.

How far along in the Iso did you get if you don't mind me asking? A fresh pair of eyes on this game coming from the replacements might be what we need.

For Mandate, not so far before I realised that it was 300 and something posts long.
I might relook at it, when I get the time.

[Freedom]

Going on a spiel, I think that the only scum!implo world is where Meuh is also scum.
At least, based off my knowledge of scum!implo, he is more than likely to bus D1.
That being said, I think town!implo is much more likely.

[Freedom]

So don't mind me rambling.

[Freedom]

Setup

3 Mafia
11 Town
Nights 1-3 are skipped.
One player is randomly, publicly Toriel at game start. Toriel's vote is doublestrength on day one, fades to normal strength day two, and fades to a nonvoting slot thereafter. Players cannot vote for Toriel, even though Toriel might be mafia.
On Day 2.5, players vote to choose Mercy or Fight. If Mercy is chosen, for the rest of the game subsequent eliminations are flavored as sparings and town wins if town spares four townies and loses if it spares two mafia. Use hurt and heal tags tags to vote for Mercy and Fight respectively.
If Fight is chosen, those effects are simply not applied.
Day 3 lasts one prod timer and voting is disabled. The day 3 elimination is Toriel.

OK someone splain this to me.

So ONE person is "Toriel," they get strong votes Day 1, then normal vote Day 2, then can't vote after? And Toriel can never be voted? But Toriel for sure dies Day 3?

I'm thinking we should choose "Fight."

I am a regular VT as well.

I think that's about it re: mech.
Toriel is a doublevoter today, a regular voter tommorow and then is eliminated.
Dunn is Toriel, in case you missed it but if we all collectively think Dunn is town, mercy is OK.
Otherwise, "Fight" should be the way to go.

[Freedom]

Though, I don't think we have to worry much about mech rn.

[Freedom]

Or at least, until the first two flips.
P-edit: @RN

[Freedom]

And also, RN, game is nightless until D3.

[Freedom]

And that's literally everything mech-related that's actually important.

[Freedom]

And yeah, I still need to finish ISOing Mandate.

[Freedom]

Going on a spiel, I think that the only scum!implo world is where Meuh is also scum.
At least, based off my knowledge of scum!implo, he is more than likely to bus D1.
That being said, I think town!implo is much more likely.

This seems like a big jump though, especially since Freedom doesn’t seem to have an actual read on me

I'm saying that based off what I know of implo's scumgame and I'm leaning towards implo being town so it isn't really a read on you.

[Freedom]

how do you feel about

freedom's

response to you/

implosion

?

The entirety of the read seems to hinge on an Implosion townread that hasn’t been explained? So I’d like some sort of explanation there
Freedom doesn’t seem to have an actual read on me individually
I just kinda want more explanation and information around it

I think it's pretty clear that it's a vibe-based read with aspects of meta.

[Freedom]

actually i think freedoms intro is curious in a wolfy way because he arrives and asserts dunn as town alongside implo but then the focus is on implo and meuh. i can think of one reason why it wouldn’t be wolfy but @freedom why is dunn town? and why is my slot wolf?

Your slot is nullish for me but I haven't been having any definitive SRs so I haven't unvoted yet.
And re: Dunn, it's mainly that I've liked his ISO.

[Freedom]

I'm "unimpressed" with Meuh posts so far, nothing that makes me think she's town

She can argue it's for "nudging" but voting a slot she was previously townreading rather than one of the people in her PoE is just whacky to me

Feels like she's trying to explore wagon options

Happy keeping my vote there at the moment

This is actually a good point.

[Freedom]

@mod

will Brown Eyes get prodded? They haven't posted in 3 days.

[Freedom]

At least, based off my knowledge of scum!implo, he is more than likely to bus D1.

oh i missed this but yeah that's just not true lol. I happened to bus in coalition because it was expedient to do so because it was going to be really hard to imitate my towngame accurately while not pushing my scumbuddy (which is also why I really wanted to push to get them off the coalition). I don't think I have any predilection toward bussing and I especially doubt I'd have such a predilection in this setup.

Oh.
I see.

[Freedom]

@Freedom, are you a publicly known alt?

I mainslipped once but not everybody seems to remember that.
So technically, I'm a semi-secret alt. (As in I've told my main to pretty much every mod whose games I've joined and I mentioned my main in the game that I mainslipped in.)

[Freedom]

Also, everyone who was in the TM team discord server should know my main from crosschecking Discord nicknames.

[Freedom]

unsure if freedom wanted to be outed or not

Technically I already outed my main in Ceph's NQNM II after I mainslipped so I don't care too much.
Given, I do have slightly different playstyles between my main and this alt.

[Freedom]

So you are

Rh9

?

Yeah.

[Freedom]

Going on a spiel, I think that the only scum!implo world is where Meuh is also scum.
At least, based off my knowledge of scum!implo, he is more than likely to bus D1.
That being said, I think town!implo is much more likely.

This seems like a big jump though, especially since Freedom doesn’t seem to have an actual read on me

I'm saying that based off what I know of implo's scumgame and I'm leaning towards implo being town so it isn't really a read on you.

Did you take into consideration the viability of bussing in this setup? I feel like it's generally relevant and especially is for a player like Implo who seems like the type to take into account when playing

In all honesty, I should have but I did not.
So that's on me.

[Freedom]

implo, I think is town because I'm not getting that vibe in his ISO that I got from reading that Coalition game.

Describe this further than you have already?

I'm "unimpressed" with Meuh posts so far, nothing that makes me think she's town

She can argue it's for "nudging" but voting a slot she was previously townreading rather than one of the people in her PoE is just whacky to me

Feels like she's trying to explore wagon options

Happy keeping my vote there at the moment

This is actually a good point.

I don't think

Meuh

explicitly had

Implosion[/b[ is town in their original readslist when I first voted them, it was null.

Shirou's

recapitulation is not accurate.

actually i think freedoms intro is curious in a wolfy way because he arrives and asserts dunn as town alongside implo but then the focus is on implo and meuh. i can think of one reason why it wouldn’t be wolfy but @freedom why is dunn town? and why is my slot wolf?

Your slot is nullish for me but I haven't been having any definitive SRs so I haven't unvoted yet.
And re: Dunn, it's mainly that I've liked his ISO.

I'm still not satisfied with this post because it feels like your read on

Ydrasse

is uncritical and/or convenient.

My implo read is pretty shallow so I'm not sure what else to say.
You're probably right on the other points.
I'll probably need to go over the rest of Mandate's ISO at some point. Ydra is all right per her latest posts.

[Freedom]

I should UNVOTE: Ydra for now really.

[Freedom]

i don't mind never being spared that could be fun in its own way

i do dislike people putting me in the PoE for D1/D2 alongside Meuh/Ali when i think i've been significantly townier than either of them

Isn't it a bit too early to decide that we're going down the

Mercy

route?
Unless there's a consensus that we all think Dunn is town, I feel like it's too early to decide.

[Freedom]

i think

dunn

is town and

mercy

is preferable to me regardless of what his alignment is

I'd say that while I agree with the first part, I feel like we need to have some flips before deciding which route to go for.
If we can eliminate two scum in the first two Days, then we're almost guaranteed to win by going down

Mercy

.
Otherwise, it's more complicated, especially since scum only needs 2 of them to be spared while we need 4.
And that is not counting the fact that the first spare/elimination will be on Dunn.
Which means that if there isn't a majority either TRing him or otherwise feeling comfortable with sparing him, we might not even be able to get to go down the

Mercy

route.

[Freedom]

But then, maybe I'm overthinking things.

[Freedom]

@mod

V/LA every weekend

[Freedom]

But beeboy isn't in game anymore?
P-edit: @Ali

[Freedom]

Oh wait.
Nevermind.

[Freedom]

I just forgot they existed.
My bad.

[Freedom]

Sorry.

[Freedom]

Catching up soon.

[Freedom]

Isn't it a bit too early to decide that we're going down the Mercy route?

see here for an argument that we should probably just do mercy anyway unless we specifically suspect Dunn, or at least bias ourselves in that direction.

I see.

[Freedom]

I guess that

Mercy

is the way to go then.

[Freedom]

I also know Merlyn was replaced but I haven't memorized very well who is Merlyn right now

I need to keep checking the opening post given the amount of replacements

Merlyn was my predecessor.

[Freedom]

VOTE: taly

Is this because of Taly's read progression on you that you brought up in 1843?

[Freedom]

TBH it would be nice to hear more from the lower content posters.

[Freedom]

I feel I’m at the point where I have little or nothing to add today and am ready for a flip but gosh those wagons are small

True.
At this point, it's probably likely that either scum will decide or we'll end up with a compromise wagon of sorts.
Which only benefits scum.

[Freedom]

if

dann

is scum what does he gain from lolvoting me?

I'd say to seem like he's doing something?
Eh.
I didn't really like his explanation.
Felt almost like something scum does to go "look, I'm sorting people" but meh.
I could realistically be wrong in distrusting his reaction testing.

[Freedom]

I feel I’m at the point where I have little or nothing to add today and am ready for a flip but gosh those wagons are small

True.
At this point, it's probably likely that either scum will decide or we'll end up with a compromise wagon of sorts.
Which only benefits scum.

i agree but what is actionable here?

do you think

ali

or

meuh

will flip mafia? do you think neither? what votes right now do you think could be scum-motivated?

Other than Dann's vote on you and the explanation, not sure.
I'm not entirely getting why Ali wants to wait for beeboy but it's probably because they don't have any strong reads. Which might be towny since scum in their position could've just voted Meuh and claimed it was for a lim to happen.
So if I had to choose between Meuh and Ali, I'd have to go for Meuh.
At the same time, Meuh is still pretty null for me.

[Freedom]

Though, ideally I'd prefer Dann over either.

[Freedom]

Catching up, I think Ydra is probably town for 2416, 2420 and 2421.

[Freedom]

Meuh hopping onto the wagon of someone she thinks is easier to read is questionable.
Especially when she said both Ali and I are meh.
Also, I don't think she really answered Ydra when this was pointed out other than vague comments on the informativeness.

[Freedom]

Anyway, VOTE: Meuh

[Freedom]

Meuh is on E-3 now, I think.

[Freedom]

Meuh is on E-3 now, I think.

Actually, it's E-2.
I forgot to count Shirou.

[Freedom]

i felt bad about making post 2452 after i saw post 2450 >_>

You're too kind.

[Freedom]

TBH I actually feel like scum are mostly off Meuh's wagon.

[Freedom]

I'll post more this afternoon.
I'm going to school rn.

[Freedom]

idunno why I had a 4 player wolf team in mind

I honestly thought that it was just your PoE.

[Freedom]

As in 2568

[Freedom]

I think almost everyone agreed to varying degrees that Meuh looked bad

If I had the energy I would be looking back on people defending Meuh for questionable reasons because that's an easy target to whiteknight yesterday

Off the top of my mind I only remember Alisae doing that

I should too, really.

[Freedom]

i don’t know if i would be comfortable with no room for error versus fight especially if scum gets to narrow the pool more
like especially after being wrong about someone already?

That was partially my original problem with spare. We have to trust that we don't make any mistakes or we're done for.

[Freedom]

Though I think implo said something about spare being good based off EV.
And I think we can take his word with it.
P-edit: @Ydra

[Freedom]

Alas, alas.

I also am inclined to go after the empty slot next.

Because there's going to be no contributions from it?
I might have to read Ari's iso first but I guess we could go for it if Ari was scummy.

[Freedom]

Otherwise, it might be good going for what Shirou suggested with reading slots defensive of Meuh.

[Freedom]

Hi RCE!

[Freedom]

Your immediate predecessor RN was virtually non-existent so it'd be good if you could do something.

[Freedom]

Hey! I’ve read 5ish pages, I have….varying confidence in reads but one was that meuh was town, so that’s nice I guess.

At the very least pushing to hammer in the middle of finding a replacement is !SKETCHY! So that’s also nice, I guess.

Idk what kind of bit I’m doing but I’ll probably keep it going till I get bored, I guess.

What are your current thoughts on

Spare

/

Fight

?

[Freedom]

Alas, alas.

I also am inclined to go after the empty slot next.

Because there's going to be no contributions from it?
I might have to read Ari's iso first but I guess we could go for it if Ari was scummy.

Nah, I never really found Ari as town and have mentioned a couple times that the slot is in my PoE.

It was more so for me to remind myself to read Ari's ISO.

[Freedom]

Actually, I realise you were answering my question.

[Freedom]

*just realised

[Freedom]

My bad.

[Freedom]

Reading up now.

[Freedom]

Am I eliminated yet?
If I didn't have 4 hours of sleep last night, I might try defending myself but I'm tired so I'll probably do that later.

[Freedom]

Also, I do guess that if we're not going for the Spare route, me being limmed could be somewhat informative.
Especially since I feel like there's scum on my wagon.

[Freedom]

Anyways, don't expect much from me today.
And activity is NAI for me so people who are voting based off that probably should reconsider if they're not scum.

[Freedom]

you can just spare everyone not on the d1 wagon alisae

WHAT

I'm guessing Dann thinks that you can spare 5 town who did not vote for Meuh.

[Freedom]

I mean 4.

[Freedom]

Actually, it depends on Dunn.

[Freedom]

Though, really, I'd say that Sakura's 3003 is a good idea.

[Freedom]

TBH I am probably going for Dann today, given he's my strongest SR from D1.
VOTE: Dann

[Freedom]

Though, on the other hand, it's not like my reads have been good thus far.

[Freedom]

Fair I probably need to redeem myself by hitting scum somehow

Or sparing town if we go down

Mercy

route.

[Freedom]

Freedom

who would you spare?

Ali.
They're the only one who I feel confident being town.

[Freedom]

maybe the game

is

as easy as

Freedom/Bingle/X

Tragically my flip will probably make your life harder.

[Freedom]

I swear that Bingle wanting to be limmed is ???

[Freedom]

As in I'm pretty sure that it's to bank on something similar to Meuh's flip.

[Freedom]

I'm reading up now.

[Freedom]

I'm reading up now.

I'd change my preference of first spare to ssbm or Ali.
ssbm, because her rep in feels towny.

[Freedom]

GG

[Freedom]

Congrats Town BTW!

[Freedom]

Anyway. I think Shirou sparing Ydrasse was pretty impressive. I was definitely feeling like Dann was the winning spare, although of course I don't know how I would have felt if I'd been alive. But I definitely would have taken the last day a lot very slowly, though it sounds like possibly the exact same thing might have happened tbh, the question is if RCE would have found me like they managed to find Ydrasse because obviously I wouldn't have minded a fast day with me getting spared. It's definitely a tough kill choice and I think killing me makes a lot of sense from the perspective of it making Dann a good-looking spare, which is part of why I'm impressed with Shirou instavoting Ydrasse. RCE finding Ydrasse is also really impressive given where they started the day at. Really I guess town did manage to play the last day really well, it does feel like snatching victory from the jaws of defeat a bit.

This was a cool game and I enjoyed playing it with people. There's also a part of me that's glad Ydrasse wound up getting spared after the agony of feeling like she had no chance to ever be.

Agreed.