Eminence in Shadow: Season 1 [Game Over]

[T3]

Klick didn't try to keep himself alive

[T3]

Lim limlo. Fuck autocorrect.

What have you read so far?

[T3]

tbf I don't disagree with the other two

i do. wheme is very towny, and i don't see how anyone could have a read on me. and i checked before i decided to replace in, cephrir was towny.

Ok so who are your suspects? I thought Klicks PoE pool was solid

keeping in mind i haven't really bothered to sort anyone since day 1 because of the guilties and klick v luka thing, the pool of people i don't strongly tr is probably jjh/t3/penguin/you.

i think out of this pool, you are the towniest and penguin is the scummiest. i don't really have reads on t3 and jjh but one is probably scum because of process of elimination.

Can you elaborate on Penguin?

[T3]

Well kind of but I want to hear it from her POV too

[T3]

I think jj telling me there isn't really mech to dig into despite already having seen something to weigh in on in the last 5 pages is interesting, potentially in a scum indicative way. I think that he's fairly easy to solve regardless, and I'm satisfied with that for now. I'm vaguely aware that there's some kind of 'guilty' but given that we haven't actually murdertastic murderbarned said guilty, I guess there's some reasonable doubt? I also hear tell that pooky is a dead scumlord so I should probably look into who he was actively manipulating. Pooky doesn't put on a show of manipulating buddies ime, but he can't help being a puppetmaster so he's likely spewed some town from that.

Also something something Sakura claimed vanilla and was obvtown and then got vanilla-iced by scum and is saying that conftowns her harder? Is there a reason outside of ALIventor to assume scum would vanilla-ice a vanilla claim?

Party Boat is hard guiltied by a tracker.

Sakura claimed Watcher with a hard guilty on Pooky and was promptly vanillaized.

[T3]

I think jj telling me there isn't really mech to dig into despite already having seen something to weigh in on in the last 5 pages is interesting, potentially in a scum indicative way. I think that he's fairly easy to solve regardless, and I'm satisfied with that for now. I'm vaguely aware that there's some kind of 'guilty' but given that we haven't actually murdertastic murderbarned said guilty, I guess there's some reasonable doubt? I also hear tell that pooky is a dead scumlord so I should probably look into who he was actively manipulating. Pooky doesn't put on a show of manipulating buddies ime, but he can't help being a puppetmaster so he's likely spewed some town from that.

When I’ve seen scum Pooky before I have not been able to catch him at all based on interactions

[T3]

The Dunn wagon was started by Pooky the first two times as a counterwagon to himself. Then the third time it rose it happened as a dark horse counterwagon to jjh and Peng, and Pooky didn’t push hard for Dunn near EoD1 at all.

[T3]

i feel like at this point dunnstral is somewhat in anti-spew mode because his response to sakura does not read as like a townie reaction in any way at all

actually he did push Dunn hard to counterwagon Gamma at one point

[T3]

When I are up I want to see some people say why they think cakez is town

I think Dunnstral's read of SirCakez and overt defense of him makes him TMI'd town. 585 792

as the game has progressed and Cakez became leading wagon on a 2nd go around - Dunnstral's said nothing to defend his Cakez Townread from earlier and just kind of twiddling his thumbs trying to pretend he doesn't exist.

Feels like he wants the Cakez wagon to go through. His inactivity while Cakez/BCG are the leading wagons makes me think he's comfortable with either one going through which doesnt make sense if he's scum with scum!cakez or town with a cakez townread. Furthermore he says nothing to really defend Cakez when he does enter the thread.

Dunnstral's scumplay I would classify as "act when necessary" and I think in game states that are favorable to scum he doesn't really do much you can see G+R for an example of Dunnstral doing nothing in a game state favorable to mafia.

Oh wait you might be right about the puppeteering thing

[T3]

It's DJ P-P-Party Boat, taking a genre request for later this evening! Your options are:

-Indie/neat songs I found on youtube
-Industrial/Angy Rock
-Sad electronic vibes
-Punk rock
-Female singers

There may be some overlap between categories. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

can you do all of them at once

[T3]

(along with every other category)

I meant like all the categories in one song

[T3]

Thanks for your help Mr. Boat

[T3]

thanks mr party bro

[T3]

We need some hold music

[T3]

cakez and ceph pretty solidly town, as of p15, for pooky interactions. Also Dunn, but someone had to kill him. Also Gamma and pooky are obvscum. I'm good at this.

Ceph and Pooky did not have any interactions before page 15

[T3]

Am I insane

[T3]

BCG+Sakura scumteam about to roll us with hyperactivity I called it first

Bcg+pooky*

Did you know you can't spell spooky without pooky

shit he's onto us

this is their first interaction on page 20

[T3]

I am suffering a combination of waking up too early and drinking too much. The remainder of my layover will be spent trying not to hate my pants.

nooo we need drunk bingle

[T3]

Hm.

I'll just come out and say it: I think jj is scum here. He's got low energy/excitement for where I think he'd be in a mech heavy game for a flavor he'd like. He's engaging and doing well, but I don't really get the sense that he wants to be. I know that he's capable of this level of play, his sig is from a much more impressive scumgame than this one if it turns out I'm right.

I'm still fine just letting him be and doing his own thang for now, but I'm particularly interested in any cases that could show he's town, because if he is I want to use him as a sounding board and I can't really do that without the trust.

This feels kind of bad faith

[T3]

There is point in voting outside of party boat, actually
If scum are indeed limited to using one of their factional powers per player, then we would be in a better position mechanically if we voted out a different scum player in this day phase

Depends on roles though

This feels like baseless speculation tbh

[T3]

It might help the gamestate to lim out of Party Boat actually

[T3]

If we don't get rid of Boat that's just gonna be a perpetual wagon

Oh that's true

VOTE: Party Boat

[T3]

E-1

[T3]

Is this too obvious or am I just dumb

The latter

This being said, explain what dumb thing you have spotted as it makes it a lot easier to conclusively place you unlike the rest of your content this game

Oh I missed this

I don’t understand how you know anything and how me saying that bcg targeting t3 makes sense to me checks out with you when you shouldn’t know anything because I looked back and Ali gave u no powers

I've noticed a pattern in the roles that Ali gave out

Actually do you still want Wheme to claim today, or no?

[T3]

It's at least worth shopping around, especially if it helps people get more into the game

This is what I was thinking too but if not everyone is on board then it's gonna be hard

UNVOTE: also bc Bingle hasn't caught up

[T3]

Memestar your time has come to claim

[T3]

I not claimin

Do you have hard hard scumreads or townreads or something close to that?

[T3]

VOTE: Wheme

Wheme/Penguin is my solve, although that largely hinges on Wheme being scum

[T3]

Why jjh?

[T3]

You're going on a lot of assumptions here to try to derail the elmination from Boat and that's very sus to me.

jjh made a lot of assumptions but I do not think those assumptions come from scum more often than not

[T3]

Sakura this really doesn't make sense

[T3]

Your entire scumread on jjh

[T3]

I think his assumptions are questionable but I do not think that makes him scum. I don't think you're properly differentiating "actively manipulative scum" with "town who thinks he's making the optimal play"

[T3]

What jjh did comes from town more often than not

[T3]

Sorting Wheme really helps my solve

[T3]

nvm I’m not townreading Penguin anymore

[T3]

Oh yeah, we're at evens
VOTE: No Elimination

Is there any value to limming someone today and then no limming tomorrow? Because there are 8 alive and not 6.

[T3]

I just want people to talk

[T3]

It is anti town for me to claim my role I shall not claim

I kind of buy this tbh

[T3]

Can wheme really fake this as scum???

[T3]

Can wheme really fake this as scum???

What jjh said in the PT is that Wheme would make up a terrible fakeclaim if he was scum and he’s not doing that here

[T3]

If you're scum you will probably have to lie about aspects of your role including targets and results

Do you think that Wheme is scum here for not claiming???

[T3]

I'll just say i dont have a solid reason for scumreading you T3, it's just kinda, it feels kinda off you know, your posting i mean. And Alisae installed into my head the fact that you cant be trusted ever, which has made me very wary of like everything.

That’s fair. I suppose the best response I can provide is that I struggle to vibe as town? I like to just go off and solve by myself which in the past people have described as somewhat disconnected, in a sense? I’m not describing it exactly correctly but I would not say that I’m particularly socially apt.

Alisae massively oversold my scumgame. I’m an average player who had one extremely good scumgame in which I fooled virtually everyone, but that was the exception and not the rule.

[T3]

viewtopic.php?t=91199&user_select%5B%5D=35441

Look at this game and tell me it is elite scumplay

[T3]

I have a hard time reading games i'm not a part of. But now that you mention it, i've been using Anything Upick as a base which is the only game of yours and jjh i remember.

Anything Upick was before I actually started trying to win games

[T3]

I think I literally posted 80 times in 300 pages and maybe 20 of those posts had actual content

[T3]

Subject: Anything uPick (Endgame)

this game is absolutely perplexing to read i'm not gonna lie

Ahahahahhahah same
I have such a low post count because I just don’t have the attention span to read more than 5 pages at a time

lol

[T3]

Anything before like mid-2022 is the worst baseline imaginable for me

Before then I didn't try to improve my townplay at all, since then I've been trying to improve my towngame to be on par winrate-wise with my scumgame

I still suck as town as evidenced by my 3 town wins in 15 town games in 2023 but when I lose I don't look completely stupid all the time

[T3]

I know I have a few more T3 posts to look at and that's what tipped me off initially but are the T3 voters looking at the posts in thread and not seeing a very self-consistent narrative that is backed by a reasonable thought process

i am literally sheeping two confirmed towns: klick and sakura.
i also don't really have a read on t3 while i do have a townread on several people.

can u towncase t3? other than by saying he is clearly town.

At the end of the day yesterday Klick was townreading me

Sakura’s scumread of me is informed entirely by bad vibes and thinking my scumgame is better than it is

[T3]

[quote=SirCakez post_id=14061963 post_num=2750 time=1706203696 user_id=26092 I can see the arguments
[/quote]
Literally no one has made any argument of substance for me being scum

[T3]

VOTE: Penguin

[T3]

lol - your trajectory on me is bad. Penguin is scum but that largely relies on wheme being scum -> penguin doesn’t make any new posts -> nevermind penguin is now just scum for *reasons* -> oh god people are voting me I guess now’s the time for me to vote penguin.

My initial reasons for townreading you were invalid, I realized that after I chatted with jjh in the hood

[T3]

lol - your trajectory on me is bad. Penguin is scum but that largely relies on wheme being scum -> penguin doesn’t make any new posts -> nevermind penguin is now just scum for *reasons* -> oh god people are voting me I guess now’s the time for me to vote penguin.

"penguin is scum but that largely relies on wheme being scum" - I've been saying this or some variation of this in the hood for the past 2 night
"penguin doesn't make any posts" - My flip from Wheme to you happened over ONE PAGE of you not making any posts. If I had the agenda to scumread you I would have just voted you at daystart in the first place
"penguin is now just scum for *reasons" - Again, my reasoning is pretty weak but I explained it a little bit in the PT with jjh, I didn't like that Pooky townread you and the only scum motivation I could think of was that he wanted to protect you from being limmed. My initial reason for townreading you was that I doubted Gamma would have voted you yesterday if you were scum but jjh showed me that I overestimated the momentum of the wagon on you. I still think it's less likely that you are scum from the fact that Gamma voted you but that does not outweigh my previous reason for scumreading you.
"oh god people are voting me I guess now's the time for me to vote penguin" - guilty as charged

[T3]

here let me demonstrate an actual read for you;

I think PenguinPower is town because he's just following me around like he expects me to townread him.

I have a pretty strong track record of reading him correctly pretty much every game I've ever played with him without fail so the way he's playing with pretty much no regard for making himself look good and just chilling while following me around feels pretty townie to me. I think he's not worried about being pushed or limmed this game because I'm alive and he expects me to just veto any wagon on him. This thought process only makes sense for him to have if he's town, if he's mafia I'd expect him to actually make some kind of effort.

This is what I mean by a thought process.

I don't think this is a compromise or lurker D1 elimination either, Penguin always enters games like thats just his playstyle

Versus especially JJH feels like a coin flip

?

why is penguin mafia if he always enters games like this?

This seems less like a pocket and more like scum defending a buddy.

[T3]

lol @ pooky protecting me. I’m almost never a day 1 yeet as either alignment and I almost never endgame as scum.

At one point near the end of day 1 you were at 6 votes to Dunn's 7, I know that the main reason I (and I believe Sakura too) avoided voting you for a while was because I looked at what Pooky said and bought it. If Pooky hadn't said that then the momentum may very well could have shifted to your wagon and you could have been limmed

[T3]

I do not think that Pooky's townread of you is a pocket simply because scum!Pooky would have no reason to pocket you - you were sheeping him in the first place

[T3]

here let me demonstrate an actual read for you;

I think PenguinPower is town because he's just following me around like he expects me to townread him.

I have a pretty strong track record of reading him correctly pretty much every game I've ever played with him without fail so the way he's playing with pretty much no regard for making himself look good and just chilling while following me around feels pretty townie to me. I think he's not worried about being pushed or limmed this game because I'm alive and he expects me to just veto any wagon on him. This thought process only makes sense for him to have if he's town, if he's mafia I'd expect him to actually make some kind of effort.

This is what I mean by a thought process.

I don't think this is a compromise or lurker D1 elimination either, Penguin always enters games like thats just his playstyle

Versus especially JJH feels like a coin flip

?

why is penguin mafia if he always enters games like this?

This seems less like a pocket and more like scum defending a buddy.

This actually makes me think PP town over T3, fwiw. I agree that this isn't a pocket attempt, but it seems more like a halfassed defense against a weak wagon than a buddy sticking his neck out. I don't think pooks was trying to prevent PP from being flipped so much as angling to look good if PP flipped town phases down the line. Like, this doesn't seem so much a "Don't lim Penguin" excercise as an excuse to be voting elsewhere, and if Pengy/Dunn was T/T that makes absolutely perfect sense.

Maybe? But again, the first post was a fairly hard read that shut down several people’s desire to vote Penguin

[T3]

That's e-1, not a hammer btw

What is the point in saying this when you could have not said so and done a reaction test

[T3]

I want to get some good timing and have a live discussion with tired person at this point

Same

[T3]

As of now I've said everything I need to say

[T3]

That's e-1, not a hammer btw

What is the point in saying this when you could have not said so and done a reaction test

Because if Sakura thought it was the hammer she would just disappear to play Yakuza instead of continuing to participate (also it's a weak reaction test).

Didn't you say that it's E-1 now and a vote would be the hammer???

[T3]

Ohh i see

[T3]

Maybe? But again, the first post was a fairly hard read that shut down several people’s desire to vote Penguin

I... don't really see that. I see pooky making that post and not a lot of thread impact. I also don't think "Pengy is town because he's sheeping me" is a read that's likely to actually prevent people from voting Pengy, nor do I think pooky was likely to think that. Maybe people who were in the thread can weigh in and tell me the vibe was different in real time, but I don't at all get the impression that 678 was likely to ever really accomplish discouraging a lim, nor does it seem like pengy was a likely lim prospect at that point of the game. I think 1907 is more in line with maybe actually being a defense, but it doesn't seem like one that was designed to actually bear fruit.

I tend to find reads like that fairly convincing and that changed my opinion on Peng. It changed Sakura's too, iirc.

[T3]

Hmm is this something Gamma says to a partner?

I think Gamma is pretty quick to bus partners she gets frustrated with. Like, if she doesn't think they're doing enough to get endgame cred, I think she jumps right to the 'burn the bridge' stage.

At that point scum!me would have had a pretty good endgame position, I was fairly widely townread.

[T3]

I kind of find it hard to find this interaction as SvS

I can see that this is obviously not going to work so I'll stop. I mean, not that I was really trying very hard. the above concern they will actually go through is very not founded though, there are so many of you just desperate to do anything to keep this unpleasant person around which is odd but whatever.

VOTE: pooky

Who are you calling unpleasant???

I find it hard to believe you can't piece this together so I think this is probably you starting shit

I can see that this is obviously not going to work so I'll stop. I mean, not that I was really trying very hard. the above concern they will actually go through is very not founded though, there are so many of you just desperate to do anything to keep this unpleasant person around which is odd but whatever.

VOTE: pooky

Who are you calling unpleasant???

I find it hard to believe you can't piece this together so I think this is probably you starting shit

Based on the vote I thought you meant pooky but I quickly thought it might have been BCG
KEEP IN MIND: I made in a mod error in my last completed game I ran because someone ranted about shit that had zero consequence on their night action in the NA submission PM! So

yes

, I really do need this shit clarified!

Sorry, I was annoyed when I wrote that post

That is well within Gamma's scumrange and probably within Ceph's too

[T3]

Ceph's emotion felt genuine but on balance it's only a little +town

[T3]

Across Ceph's posting, he only ever voted, Pooky, Gamma and T3.

I don't think Ceph ever voted me - didn't he also vote BCG at one point??

[T3]

Across Ceph's posting, he only ever voted, Pooky, Gamma and T3.

I don't think Ceph ever voted me - didn't he also vote BCG at one point??

I meant jjh, woops

Usually scum exclusively or almost exclusively voting all their partners is more indicative of TMI than anything else

[T3]

Very much feels like they're trying to appear to be doing more than they are doing

but yeah if I'm going to respond to that request to towncase T3 then I will do it in real time, because I think I've set out quite succinctly what makes T3 town and it's there if you actually look for it

TP has recently been ellitelling too - she asked jjh to towncase me, jjh said something to the effect of "I'll point the specific posts out to you at some point," at which point TP visited the site and posted elsewhere but didn't do anything here despite jjh's response.

[T3]

Across Ceph's posting, he only ever voted, Pooky, Gamma and T3.

I don't think Ceph ever voted me - didn't he also vote BCG at one point??

I meant jjh, woops

Usually scum exclusively or almost exclusively voting all their partners is more indicative of TMI than anything else

That would mean TP+jjh scum, which doesnt seem likely.

That also seems very unlikely to me...

[T3]

VOTE: sir pookington

VOTE: bcg

im just not buying what this slot is selling

I can see that this is obviously not going to work so I'll stop. I mean, not that I was really trying very hard. the above concern they will actually go through is very not founded though, there are so many of you just desperate to do anything to keep this unpleasant person around which is odd but whatever.

VOTE: pooky

VOTE: gamma

Feeling uneasy about gamma

VOTE: jjh

Idg why pp is happening

Everything feels wrong now I'm gonna VOTE: pooky uselessly for a bit

Actually I don't think Ceph's vote history is all that alignment indicative - he voted jjh, BCG, and Gamma exactly once.

[T3]

Process of Elimination shouldnt fail here, i think there's a lot more worlds were Ceph's interactions with flipped scum make him town than not.
Only outlier is Cakez, as i dont know how hard would Pooky hard bus his team and Cakez likes busing, but then it'd mean Pooky literally cross bused with 2 teammates.

Characterizing Pooky's pushes as 'hard' is questionable given that he hard townread Cakez later in the day and his vote on Cakez just kind disappeared into nothingness

As far as I remember with Gamma, Pooky just made a 'truce' with Gamma and that was that

[T3]

His Dunn push actually had teeth

[T3]

Right and if we're looking at Gamma, her defense of Cakez was weird too, she gave no real and good reasoning and I guess there was some emotion there but it was weird

This is an open call-to-action until stated otherwise: if kyouko attempts to eliminate Cakez after I die, kill her.

Compare that with her Ceph scumread or her Wheme bus in which the emotion was pretty clearly there

[T3]

I also find it weird that jjh is defending me but not really defending me

[T3]

Maybe not actually

[T3]

TP also said that she's voting me exclusively because she wants to sheep 2 conftown (you and Klick)

I have explained that Klick townread me yesterday and I've explained that Sakura's scumread is rooted in vibes but TP is still voting me with no real explanation

[T3]

I've said everything I need to say.

[T3]

true!

[T3]

LET'S FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOO

pooky for the carry

[T3]

Subject: The Viewers (Spectators Thread - Eminence)

That sounds a lot more plausible than Gamma/Pooky/Cakez/T3 but that's my story and I'm sticking to it

hilarious