Shell Game (Day 8)

[Lukewarm]

@Cakez, what is your opinion of Dann, Hermit, and morph's reactions to the deathy reveal. (Started around 564)

[Lukewarm]

Sigh

Crabz, do y'all have thoughts on this?

Same question to you, Luke.

other's thoughts also welcome.

I am of two minds when I look at his top 4 scum reads.

In my left brain, I don't think that scum-Cakez would feel super confident in dropping you guys in the bottom tier.

In my right brain, I think that landing on Brian being his strongest scum read is exactly who scum-Cakez needs to have as his strongest scum read.

Why are you looking at everything from the angle of would scum!Cakez do this? What about would town!Cakez do this? I feel like everyone in this game is good enough to see how scummy Brian's recent posting has been, I almost feel like it would be egregious to not vote him given the wagon existing too.

Turns out "Do I think that scum would do this / benefit from doing this" is a question I ask myself when trying to discern someones alignment.

Hope that helps.

Sassy okay

The not sassy answer is that town is posting the things that they believe (generally), so "Would town!Cakez do this" is actually "does cakez believe these things?"

Scum don't start at belief. They start at "what helps them?", tempered by "what do they think they can justify?"

So "Do I think that scum would do this / benefit from doing this" is an easier question to think about first, because that kind of positional benefit can be easier to see from a surface level / first time reading. While "does cakez actually believe these things" a deeper read (and often follow up questions)

[Lukewarm]

I thought that scum-cakez would point to scum-us from your pov, so this isn't surprising to me.

Why do you think that I would have that connection drawn between you guys?

[Lukewarm]

I thought that scum-cakez would point to scum-us from your pov, so this isn't surprising to me.

Why do you think that I would have that connection drawn between you guys?

We scumread Cakez' entrance but never voted him. From your POV it should look like I backed off that read at the earliest opportunity I could. If you think we'd coach Marci (and scum-Cabd definitely would if he thought she needed it), why wouldn't you think we'd also coached Cakez? If anything, scumreading us

should

point to Cakez being a possible partner.

I'm making a really big deal out of your POV here because there's a lot of irony in you having this POV, but I'll leave that for you to figure out on your own. Or not.

I do actively try to not thinking of the game in terms of partners, especially on day 1, because doing so leads to bad conclusions if you are wrong on the first read.

Even when I had the partner thought about Marci, I filed that away to be something to return to if you do eventually flip scum.

I know you guys can end up doing whole team solves on day 1, but that is not generally how I think of the game.

But when posed the question, the coaching thing did did cross my mind, yeah.

[Lukewarm]

I'm making a really big deal out of your POV here because there's a lot of irony in you having this POV, but I'll leave that for you to figure out on your own. Or not.

I also am not sure what this could mean, even if I am wrong.

Like, if I am wrong, then I got a day 1 read wrong, it happens.

[Lukewarm]

I feel like you intended these posts to mean something to me, but I am looking at them and my brain is not giving me anything out of them.

[Lukewarm]

there's a lot of irony in you having this POV

Like I am not even sure what POV you are saying that I have that you find ironic?

[Lukewarm]

Maybe I'm just slow, but its still going over my head.

Whenever you decide your ready to ELI5, I guess we can pick this back up.

[Lukewarm]

*you're

What a travesty.

[Lukewarm]

I am curious what Dunn thinks about cakez's Dunn read.

[Lukewarm]

Skitts where are you at with cakeboy

i'm kinda meh with his catchup honestly, not sure it's townie?

i'm not sure he comes in scumreading morph tho

~ skitter

This is about where I am too.

The morph (and her mitt) scum read is ballsy, and the tone feels good.

But the actual content is underwhelming.

[Lukewarm]

hermit*

[Lukewarm]

It s a lot easier to come in scumreading morph when two other people laid the foundational work and all you’re essentially doing is fanning the paranoia (sound familiar, Luke?)

And his read on us is hedged to hell and back lol

Yes, the fact that his morph read leaned so heavily on me and bingle is part of the reason why I called the actual content underwhelming.

[Lukewarm]

If yall both want cakez, I could vote with you guys.

I do also wish he had been able to answer my question from his AMA

[Lukewarm]

If yall both want cakez [over Brian], I could vote with you guys.

... to make that a real wagon again

[Lukewarm]

@Cakez, what is your opinion of Dann, Hermit, and morph's reactions to the deathy reveal. (Started around 564)

this?

Yeah

[Lukewarm]

@Cakez, what is your opinion of Dann, Hermit, and morph's reactions to the deathy reveal. (Started around 564)

this?

I was hoping to force him to voice opinions on morph (without hiding behind me and bingle), hermit (without it being tied up in hermit scum reading him), and I threw dann in there because just asking about morph and hermit felt wrong and there have been opinions voiced about dann's reaction, so was the first "AND A THIRD NAME" choice that came to mind lol

[Lukewarm]

Notty, why are you currently on Gypyx right now?

[Lukewarm]

I have bigger fish to fry (tm)

Gypyx is also on my list to meta, can I rain check you?

You are currently voting Gypyx.

These seem like reasons to not be currently voting gypyx lol

[Lukewarm]

Is there a reason why you did not take me up on the offer to vote Cakez with you to keep that wagon alive?

[Lukewarm]

I am home from a day of familial strugglebussing ready to do mafia family struggles instead.

Hi "home from a day of familial strugglebussing ready to do mafia family struggles instead."

I'm dad.

[Lukewarm]

I was suggesting it less as a "And now we kill Cakez" vote, and more of a "stop that wagon from losing all steam" vote.

Brian 10 (Spiffeh, morph, marci, Lukewarm, Dunnstral, Sunflower, Pooky, SirCakez, Penguin, CSF)
SirCakez 3 (Firebagel, STD, Brian)

But if you want to wait for Her Mitt to weigh in, sure

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: cakez

[Lukewarm]

you all decided to shout down my pressure instead of letting it play out.

If this is in reference to me, I did not shout down your pressure.

It was you stepping in the way of my line of questioning.

[Lukewarm]

Like tonally this sounds so incredibly similar to xeno cakez I’m astounded

I read the iso you linked.

I can kind of see some similarities from before his catchup, but I don't really see any similarities with his posting from today.

I think that his tone today is the best part of his entire iso, so i'm confused on his tone being the thing that is pinging you.

[Lukewarm]

I feel like we are reading different isos

[Lukewarm]

I felt like he sounded really tense in that iso, like basically the entire time he was under suspicion, and his pushes seemed really overly aggressive because of it.

But he did not seem tense to me in the posting that he had today, but :shrug:

I guess it is not all that worth debating, because I am not even town reading him. I am just not reading the tone the same way at all.

[Lukewarm]

For example Dunn's level of engagement and scumhunting this game has felt beyond what I've seen him pull off as scum in the past.

Does them being bad faith make him scum? I feel like Dunn does this as either alignment

I kind of felt like both parts of how he talked about you did not make sense to me, but was curious if there was a history there.

There are people who I think use bad reasons to town read me, but keep use that same reason repeatedly, so I stopped balking when I see it. So was kinda checking if that was the case here. But it does not sound like it.

[Lukewarm]

@Cakez, what is your opinion of Dann, Hermit, and morph's reactions to the deathy reveal. (Started around 564)

I feel like you're referencing something specific in this situation that I'm totally missing, I reread it twice and I'm not getting much from it, seems pretty reasonable from all the people you mentioned?

It s a lot easier to come in scumreading morph when two other people laid the foundational work and all you’re essentially doing is fanning the paranoia (sound familiar, Luke?)

And his read on us is hedged to hell and back lol

how am I supposed to give an unbiased read on your slot when you make posts shading me every five seconds

It's almost like I pointed you directly at a different point of the game, and tried to get you to give opinions on slots (including hermit) when not in reference to yourself.

I'm not looking for something specific, as much as pointing you at a portion of the game that I feel like you should be able to make Alignment Indicative statements about.

Like I need you to voice opinions that are more grounded then the ones you've made about those slots so far.

[Lukewarm]

Important question:

I know that when you are posting an image in between "img" tags, you can also surround those tags to change the size if the picture is too big.

But what are the tags that change the size?

[Lukewarm]

I think you can use thumb tags instead of img, Luke

YES! Those are the ones!

[Lukewarm]

Spoiler:

VOTE: cakez

I think we should start consolidating and winding down the day

~ skitter

UNVOTE:


- ydra

VOTE: cakez

~ skitter

[Lukewarm]

@Ydra, what are your thoughts on cakez?

[Lukewarm]

I think that pooky is very townie for his cakez+brain case

[Lukewarm]

He also made me laugh with his Marci case, and I also kinda vibe with it

[Lukewarm]

i don't see the reasons for cakez scum. I know i misread him all the time so im going to outsource my read on him but like wtf is the case there?

I repeat what i said like 10 pages agon brian skies, I get the feeling and reason he is wagoned. ITs just the fact he is always wagoned day 1 in games i play with him and he is always town when it happens that makes me go that this is bad.

I just really want to elim bingle and im too lazy to case him or lead the charge there. Nor do i think anyone will listen to me (but honestly just using that as an excuse not to put in the effort to try)

This post is pinging me

What part?

a) it feels whiteknight-y of you while not really committing to the townread

b) I guess I'm surprised by how much he wants Bingle

That post pings me too.

Both what he said about brian and what he said about cakez feel like the kind of things scum might say to voice differing opinions on town wagons while also not actually saying anything that might slow down/stop the wagons in anyway.

[Lukewarm]

@Cakez, what is your opinion of Dann, Hermit, and morph's reactions to the deathy reveal. (Started around 564)

I feel like you're referencing something specific in this situation that I'm totally missing, I reread it twice and I'm not getting much from it, seems pretty reasonable from all the people you mentioned?

It s a lot easier to come in scumreading morph when two other people laid the foundational work and all you’re essentially doing is fanning the paranoia (sound familiar, Luke?)

And his read on us is hedged to hell and back lol

how am I supposed to give an unbiased read on your slot when you make posts shading me every five seconds

It's almost like I pointed you directly at a different point of the game, and tried to get you to give opinions on slots (including hermit) when not in reference to yourself.

I'm not looking for something specific, as much as pointing you at a portion of the game that I feel like you should be able to make Alignment Indicative statements about.

Like I need you to voice opinions that are more grounded then the ones you've made about those slots so far.

I wish you had just said this straight up instead, I can try to do this for you when I'm at a computer

Cakez has this happened?

I see that hermit has dropped lower in your reads, what is the reason for that?

[Lukewarm]

the hood.

i think dragons prodding experience for how their reading/isoing is going + actually starting the discussion in the hood about who we're gonna target + putting pooky in his list so that none of us actually target pookie

is all protown things

Did the std post offering to put pooky on his list come before or after pooky made 3260

[Lukewarm]

But Hermit's play towards me has felt like it was disingenuous and in bad faith toward me from the start.I think their insistence on my play being somehow exactly like Xenoblade 2 is a prime example.

If notty did not genuinely think that there were similarities between the two, do you think he would have gone so far as to link your iso, and repeatedly bug people on whether or not they read it?

Like, I disagree with his take that they are super similar, but given the way he has pushed it (double and triple checking that Skitter and Spiff read the other iso)

It seems to me like even if he is scum (I don't think that he is for the record), that notty genuinely believes that if people read the two isos, there are similarities to draw between the two.

[Lukewarm]

I'm still catching up but it's occurred to me that a paranoid cop always gets guilty results, so CSF is a bad choice for an investigative

It should evenly split the cops right?

If they get inno, then they are naive or insane.

If they get guilty they are sane or paranoid.

Which then helps us use their results later, right?

I mean, its possible that there is a better option, but I am not following why this makes CSF a bad option.

[Lukewarm]

But also, that is a problem we can ponder tomorrow, since tonight is just Pass Out The Inventions night.

[Lukewarm]

Actually, does an insane cop come back with an inno on a miller?

[Lukewarm]

The fact that the wiki entry on "cop" does not use the same terminology as the wiki entry for dethy makes this frustrating to double check, but I think that they would.

This seems like a single night aiming all the cops at the miller claim should make all subsequent invests usable.

Guilty on CSF -> Inno on any other slot = sane cop
Inno on CSF -> Guilty on any other slot = insane cop.

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: Brian

Double checking, this seems to be e-2

[Lukewarm]

"any other town slot", not any other slot.

I was saying that "if they ever get the opposite result *on any other slot* then we know what they are", but yeah, the implication is that it is now an inno result.

Paranoid and naive will never get a result different then the result that they get from CSF.

[Lukewarm]

I'm still catching up but it's occurred to me that a paranoid cop always gets guilty results, so CSF is a bad choice for an investigative

It should evenly split the cops right?

If they get inno, then they are naive or insane.

If they get guilty they are sane or paranoid.

Which then helps us use their results later, right?

I mean, its possible that there is a better option, but I am not following why this makes CSF a bad option.

There is no way to tell the paranoid cop apart from the sane cop

And if they all target a townie, who then flips, there is no way to tell the naive cop apart from the sane cop.

Or if they all target a member of the mafia, who then flips, there is not way to tell the paranoid cop from the sane cop.

It seems to me like it will always take 1 test result (either on miller, or on someone who then flips), and then a result different then the test result no nail down exactly what results we are getting.

Doing the test result on the miller just skips needing to wait for the test result to flip.

(This is all thinking that starts with the assumption that the first round of cop results are all aimed at the same person to set up a litmus test, and I am not really sure what it looks like if they start out going on different targets.)

[Lukewarm]

Like, the result guilty result on a miller = Paranoid OR Sane. We do not know which yet.

But if that inventor's cop EVER gets an inno for the rest of the game, we know what that cop is the same cop, and if they had any prior guilties it can back date as true guilties.

And vice versa for the naive and insane.

[Lukewarm]

@Firebringer, not sorted within categories.

Town

Hermit Crab
PookyTheMagicalBear

Town Lean

marcistar
Save The Dragons
Spiffeh
Dunnstral
Oblivion
Dannflor
Cat Scratch Fever

Null Town

Shello and Goodbye (Ydrasse & skitter30)

True Null

Gypyx
Bingle
PenguinPower

Null Scum

Sunflower (JupiterXV & fireisredsir)
Firebringer
Firebagel

Scum Lean

experience
Klick
Brian Skies
SirCakez

This read is currently in read jail:

morph the cat (fferyllt & Cabd)

[Lukewarm]

I know that pooky just did a reads list very recently

[Lukewarm]

chat i failed my APs lol

Alexa play despacito

[Lukewarm]

I went to an Early College, so I have no experience with how APs work.

[Lukewarm]

@Ydra, what are your thoughts on cakez?

Ydra did you ever respond to this?


Also, was the reads list in 3436 seems to have been just skitter, where are you at?

[Lukewarm]

the hood.

i think dragons prodding experience for how their reading/isoing is going + actually starting the discussion in the hood about who we're gonna target + putting pooky in his list so that none of us actually target pookie

is all protown things

Did the std post offering to put pooky on his list come before or after pooky made 3260

@marci

(Or anyone in the dethy I guess)

[Lukewarm]

VLA until Monday

I was given fruit during the night, but ceph told me I was not allowed to eat it, smh

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: Skittdra

Hands in cookie jar. BUSTED.

To be clear, we are claiming a MECH GUILTY on the skitter-ydra hydra.

p-edit: Go ahead, we're all cat-ears.

I'll bite

VOTE: shello

[Lukewarm]

No, please, explain your hermit scumread for the entire thread and not just your pocket mouse

Pedit
God fucking damnit THIS IS A SHELL GAME STOP CLAIMING THINGS YOU GET

You're probably so mad, but thats for me to discover once I get caught up

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: wolfbae

[Lukewarm]

If this is scum, both morph and shello are almost certainly town

[Lukewarm]

If this is scum, both morph and shello are almost certainly town

wdym?

I mean, if you flip red, I am gonna townbin both morph and shello for the rest of the game.

Thanks.

[Lukewarm]

So morph got a report on Shello as evil? Do we know if there can be a role like Enchanter in the game that makes goods appear as evil?

This is a post written by someone trying to figure out what is going on while already knowing that both morph and shello are town.

And I already had klick in the poe.

I am not opposed to came either, but this is where my heart is rn

[Lukewarm]

Opposed to cakez**

Stupid phone autocorrect

[Lukewarm]

So morph got a report on Shello as evil? Do we know if there can be a role like Enchanter in the game that makes goods appear as evil?

This is a post written by someone trying to figure out what is going on while already knowing that both morph and shello are town.

Just to reiterate, because none of my adoring fans joined me on my righteous wagon:

The starting point of puzzling out what is happening in this post is NOT:
-Believing the guilty, nor
-wondering if morph could be lying.

The starting point was : Do we think there could be a third, unrelated role out there that might be doing something that might be giving us this result.

That is the starting place of scum, who see a townie voicing a guilty on another townie, and wondering what is happening.

[Lukewarm]

If this is scum, both morph and shello are almost certainly town

wdym?

So if wolfbae genuinely needing answers or do they understand what is going on?

I think marci is trolling

If this is scum, both morph and shello are almost certainly town

wdym?

I mean, if you flip red, I am gonna townbin both morph and shello for the rest of the game.

Thanks.

but y tho

So morph got a report on Shello as evil? Do we know if there can be a role like Enchanter in the game that makes goods appear as evil?

This is a post written by someone trying to figure out what is going on while already knowing that both morph and shello are town.

Just to reiterate, because none of my adoring fans joined me on my righteous wagon:

The starting point of puzzling out what is happening in this post is NOT:
-Believing the guilty, nor
-wondering if morph could be lying.

The starting point was : Do we think there could be a third, unrelated role out there that might be doing something that might be giving us this result.

That is the starting place of scum, who see a townie voicing a guilty on another townie, and wondering what is happening.

It feels like you are ignoring the rest of my chats and I'm wondering why

Their responses to my initial accusation look like scum trying to figure out where the accurate accusation came from

And "what about all my OTHER posts" is such a scummy response.

I am feeling even better about this, but I am not gonna actually be around to push this properly

[Lukewarm]

"But why are you only be interested in the post that you think is outing? Why not talk about the posts that I think could make me look townie?"

[Lukewarm]

The non-reactions and the reaction-reactions to my wolfbae posts are low-key demoralizing ngl.

I saw someone mention my handling of Brian and cakez wagons was of interest to one of the hoods. This is roughly my thoughts on the two as they played out

-I voted cakez because he thread dipped after the pooky thing. I think I started the wagon? Could be wrong.

-Saw a couple people vote Brian, which prompted me to read his iso. I thought it was bad. I was still scum reading cakez more, but I had the thought that the wagon on Cakez seemed less likely to be useful in that moment because he was still VLA, so joined up on the brian wagon.

-The Cakez came back, and his wagon started dissipating, I saw my strongest town read (Notty) posting repeatedly about how scummy he thought Cakez was. I was about even on Brian and Cakez at that point, so figured I might as well work with notty to keep the wagons dueling. Both as a Team Work Makes The Dream Work, and also because dueling wagons on my top two choices seemed good anyways. Notty left me on read about it but after I followed up with it, we both voted cakez

-Started having shimmers of thinking that cakez could actually be town. Not enough to *really* swing my read him, but enough to actually prefer Brian between the two of them, so I went back to Brian.

---

I also saw a post about Dunn's read progression on me following my morph post, and I did want to comment that that is par for the course with how dunn has tried to read me across multiple games. The first properly formatted and annotated post I make swings me into town.

Funny enough, I was literally talking about Dunn using this to read me, but without saying it was him lol, when I made this post:

For example Dunn's level of engagement and scumhunting this game has felt beyond what I've seen him pull off as scum in the past.

Does them being bad faith make him scum? I feel like Dunn does this as either alignment

I kind of felt like both parts of how he talked about you did not make sense to me, but was curious if there was a history there.

There are people who I think use bad reasons to town read me, but keep use that same reason repeatedly, so I stopped balking when I see it. So was kinda checking if that was the case here. But it does not sound like it.

[Lukewarm]

Have I been wrong though? I don't recall

When I see you put in a lot of effort in a post and theory craft it makes me t hink you are town

I am pretty sure that you (and Bell) used the same reason to incorrectly town read me in the scum game that I ended up having to rep out of (ffery took my slot, lld was my partner, but dont remember the exact game)

I made a big effort post to push STD, and I gained a lot of town reads from it.

[Lukewarm]

I wasn't even casing you (merely intimating you look quite scummy if cakez is town) so dumping a full explainer on your progression is interesting, to say the least.

Never said I was cased, I just saw it said that one of the hoods was talking about it over night so figured I would comment.

I have an incessant need to be understood.

[Lukewarm]

VLA until Monday

Yeah, I have been mostly skimming throughout the day.

I noticed you switched up your approach. My statement was not that it was demoralizing because people did not sheep me.

It felt like I was literally ignored (before you made the change) and then I got a "yeah, that's a silly goofy thing that Luke does" when it was finally addressed.

That had a demoralizing effect on me, unrelated to you then taking off your persona.

Because I am on vla, I am not able to properly interrogate or push, so when I did find time to sit down before bed, I used that time to expound on things that only I could that I had seen through out the day, namely my own process and my history dunn

[Lukewarm]

You ever just stare at the ceiling for nearly 2 hours, unable to go to sleep, before getting so tired of not being able to sleep that you feel the need to like take a break from trying to sleep?

I have decided to use my attempting to go to sleep break to respond to this:

That's because it's an atrocious read

Because, I actually think that this is kinda funny that you would say that.

I have not been so confident in a take this entire game, but I was so sure that a townie would not be having that line of thinking, that I was ready to restructure my whole view of the game, and I unpacked my laptop just because I needed to make sure that the thread did not simply move past it because I was limited to phone posting.

I read a single post (while skim reading), and instantly, confidently, and accurately (!) knew that that post would never be written genuinely from the PoV from a townie.

I actually think that it was a fucking god read.

Now, I will admit that I did go from "this post is simply never genuinely written from the PoV of a townie" to assuming that meant you were scum (and world building from there) without considering the fact that maybe actually you we actively trying to play dumb for shits and giggles or what ever.

But what can I say, nobody's perfect I guess.

Regardless of your alignment at the end of the day, I think I am walking away happy with myself for how confident I was in clocking that post lol

[Lukewarm]

Anyways, time for round 2 in the ever raging war against insomnia.

[Lukewarm]

Luke do you still think Wolfbae is scummy post-gimmick drop?

I think that the reason I was so confident is no longer valid, and that I had picked up on the fakeness of the gimmick, which is independent of their alignment.

I had made that determination yesterday, which is why I did not call for votes again when i came back to the thread after it was dropped, and moved on to other things I felt like i should respond to.

That being said, I am still overall leaning scum on them, but it's not a super confident slam dunk "this is never town" take. More generally scum reading their approach in a lot of posts (their reaction to my initial suspicion, comments on klick, one post about Dunn, and their current stance on me)

I need a computer to really explain, so that won't come until late tonight or possibly tomorrow.

[Lukewarm]

Also the one about legwork

[Lukewarm]

@marci

Did the idea that I was trying to save Brian originate from wolfbae, or someone else in the hood?

[Lukewarm]

So, I have a guess on who wolfbae is, but I also have no idea what personal experience they could be referring to that would make sense to color our interactions the way they are claiming.

This is not an alignment statement, so much as just confusing from that post

[Lukewarm]

muahaha

VOTE: experience
nobody even TRs this slot, let's get this wagon rolling

I think experience is probably the only other person I'd seriously consider voting right now

[Lukewarm]

Luke are you still doing whatever you were doing on day 1 with us?

My scum read on you guys has largely dissipated I think.

When both of my two strongest town reads (notty and pooky) started being super confident on you guys being town, I started question that read, and considered if I should just sheep them on you guys. Skitter made a post that said that maybe the things that I was identifying as being different about you could be that I was detecting you being sick, which I also took into consideration. So, I kinda decided to reset on you guys back to null before Day 1, and wanted to start again.

I then kinda liked your guilty -> reconsidering on shello, but that is really the only real thought about you guys that I have retained so far this day phase.

[Lukewarm]

Just to start off, I do think that the post that originally made me vote them is probably NAI now that the gimmick has been revealed, but I am still solidly leaning scum on wolfbae

Immediate reaction to my vote

Spoiler:

If this is scum, both morph and shello are almost certainly town

wdym?

If this is scum, both morph and shello are almost certainly town

wdym?

I mean, if you flip red, I am gonna townbin both morph and shello for the rest of the game.

Thanks.

but y tho

I said this already, but this approach seems more likely to come from scum, who feels the need to get the lay of the land on where a correct accusation is coming from, before knowing the right way to react vs townie who knows its meaningless since they would flip town, and at best need to sort me on it. It feels like there is a hesitance to it imo.

It feels like you are ignoring the rest of my chats and I'm wondering why

I think that the reveal that post that originally caused me to vote them was an intentionally manufactured attempt to appear clueless, actually makes me dislike this response even more then when I first saw it. Like, I scum read it when I thought it was real, because "but what alignment do you think I am if you stop looking at my scummiest post" is a scummy angle.

But, if they were town, seeing me hounding them for a post that was a post that they know was an intentionally manufactured attempt to appear clueless, and makes it seem even less likely to come from town who don't understand why I would be so focused on the post.

---

comments while talking about dunn

I'm not doing that, I'm being about as open and transparent as possible because I know I'll be revealed as town eventually and hopefully people will give my reads due consideration after that. I have basically nothing to hide here.

Still feel more or less confident saying Dunn is a wolf. I hope people will re-evaluate that once my alignment is confirmed.

For these to be True Thoughts coming from a town!wolfbae, it would require them to be currently thinking about their own alignment being flipped prior to dunns, in a way that simply does not make sense for them to be thinking about.

It also has a built in belief that people will come back and re-evaluate their dunn reads, based on their flip. Which I don't believe that they actually believe that people are particularly likely to do that.

Which leaves these lines feeling like their actual purpose is to sound like they are secure in the knowledge that they are going to flip town, in order to get town read.

posturing

Simply taking the reads on Dragons as hearsay and working off that feels like a lack of curiosity I'd expect a town to have. The writing off of ActionDan also feels pretty superficial.

And not everyone doing this can even be scum! But some of you are just really not putting in the legwork it feels like

Klick was bleeding town btw, serious skill issue to anyone unable to recognize that. like c'mon the guy's not that hard to read.

[some of their posts about dunn]

[Approximately half their posts about me]

There is a built in implication to their posts that town is simply dropping the ball, not trying, needs to reset, ect.

This feels like the approach needed if they repped into a scum read slot, following a scum flip, with a scum team that did not have the thread standing to save Brian. But not really the pov that makes sense when repping in as town immediately following a day 1 scum elim.

I had read Luke as extremely likely to be scum if Cakez is town based on how he handled the competing wagons on Day 1

Short of wolfbae's main being revealed, and me simply being completely wrong on who they are, I simply don't believe that they would genuinely believe that that was an attempt by me to save Brian. I can see where a passing read through of how it went down could provoke the suspicion, but I think you would have to make a lot of poor assumptions about me as a player to land at it being "extremely likely," and they are not the kind of person who I think would make those.

As a final point, that will likely not help anyone, but I feel it in my bones that their posting this game is vibrating on the same frequency as like my experience with scum!them.

Pedit: ... I am incredibly frustrated that in the time that I have been writing this, wolfbae has made those posts about gypyx, which are the first posts they have made this game that I have resonated with.

[Lukewarm]

I think I could add gypyx to my acceptable elim pile for today.

Also, experience is not doing anything to pull himself out of that pile with his recent posting.

[Lukewarm]

Short of wolfbae's main being revealed, and me simply being completely wrong on who they are, I simply don't believe that they would genuinely believe that that was an attempt by me to save Brian. I can see where a passing read through of how it went down could provoke the suspicion, but I think you would have to make a lot of poor assumptions about me as a player to land at it being "extremely likely," and they are not the kind of person who I think would make those.

You spent most of Day 1 brutalizing Cakez and had barely a word to say about Brian. I have receipts.

I stand by what I said.

If you are town, it's a bad read that ignores a lot of the how and when.

If you're scum, more power to you I guess.

[Lukewarm]

Lukewarm I am not confident that they slipped anymore fwiw

What do you mean slipped?

[Lukewarm]

Lukewarm I am not confident that they slipped anymore fwiw

What do you mean slipped?

What I was talking about with Firebringer's claim

Ah, I did not put any stock in that in the first place.

I dont think they are not the kind of player that would mix up what is public knowledge, and their explanation was innocuous enough

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: experience

[Lukewarm]

why just now?

Is this at me?

Because their posting in the last little bit

[Lukewarm]

Are we anywhere close to an elim?

I have no idea what votes look like right now

[Lukewarm]

On a quick check, that seems like my vote was vote 6, with 11 needed for an elim.

That is not so close that I am worried about having it there, so :shrug:

[Lukewarm]

Luke, I'm not going to argue with you over your alignment. If you are town then I'm wrong, get over it. I'm not pushing you, I'm leaving a data point.

You're the one who took my entire big post, and only quoted that part to respond to lol

[Lukewarm]

was experience's posting that bad after you dropped an entire wall on me?

I don't know what you are even asking me here. I was already scum reading experience before those most recent posts. They were just enough to prompt me to follow though with the vote.

[Lukewarm]

Yeah I mean I skipped most of it because I didn't care.

You can write reams of words as either alignment.

You're not going to convince me I'm scum because I'm not (i am a wolf tho).

So I really don't care to argue. That seems like a profound waste of my time.

I am just saying that it is silly (purposefully use of an alignment neutral term) to quote me on a very specific topic, and then declare the conversation a waste of time upon getting a single response lol.

[Lukewarm]

You're leaning scum on me enough to drop an entire wallpost on me. So if that's the case why vote experience?

Because I think that experience has at least as much likelihood to flip scum, and also has the potential to actually be an elim today.

You got a big post because, from my pov you are the most interesting, dynamically updating set of thoughts that I have had on the game recently. Not because I am declaring my intent to endlessly tunnel/push you until you die.

[Lukewarm]

I guess I don't understand what the hierarchy of your reads is supposed to be

if you're confident enough to write a big post casing me you shouldn't be compromising to someone who literally can't be scum with me

If you're more uncertain between us you shouldn't be writing a big post specifically casing me

That is simply not how I think about when I should explain my reads.

There was simply no reason to wait until I am ready to commit to your elim.

I think it is beneficial to lay the suspicions out there, especially if i feel like my oppinions are novel amongst the player list. Both to make sure that other players are considering my pov before deciding if they trust you, and also for me to see other people's opinions on my takes.

So generally, if a topic is taking up a lot of my game thoughts, I am gonna post about it, unless I see specific utility in waiting.

[Lukewarm]

It doesn't actually make sense to me that they wolfbae is claiming to be pre-flipping cakez town and also that if cakez is town, my play was extremely scummy, but also is actively disinterested in examining if their take holds water.

I am having a growing feeling that they are not interested in pushing/further examining it because the intent was simply to lay the groundwork for after an eventual town!cakez elim, which can be advantageous down the line, but committing to it right now is not beneficial to them.

I am having a (admittedly probably bad) urge to flip cakez to force them to play that hand literally tomorrow if I am right, instead of being able to sit on it until it is most advantageous for them to play it.

[Lukewarm]

If they are scum, then I do think that they think that it is an arguable position.

I can see the argument being made, and it is probably a pretty easy position to come just looking at my iso, but don't think that it holds water when looking at everything in context of the thread. That is my point when I said that

it's a bad read that ignores a lot of the how and when.

Not just in a "it does not make me scum" way, but in a "I don't think that they can could genuinely continue to hold to the position that that is what it would look like if I was interested in saving Brian" when further examined.

And my comment on "disinterested in examining if their take holds water." Is partially about them landing at that take, without then digging enough to see that AND that following that post, they are both not doing that and seemingly not interested in why I would say it.

i don't really get why you think he'd be more likely to "lay the groundwork" without really pushing hard as scum compared to town. what's beneficial about that?

1) I have personal experience of them doing a "lay the ground work play" - this is a unique to this user take, they are the kind of person who thinks about the game in the long term.

2) there is a lot of benefit from not actually pushing it right now if they are scum. From my PoV, I am very likely un-miselimable so long as morph and hermit are alive. So the pushing right now is actively pointless, especially while they are courting both of those players to work with them.

Waiting also allows other people be contributing pushers, so it is not tied directly to them (see marci being swayed enough by their hood posting to have named me as a prefered vote).

[Lukewarm]

I have personal experience of them doing a "lay the ground work play" - this is a unique to this user take, they are the kind of person who thinks about the game in the long term.

For reference:

Spoiler:

I had a game against scum them, they repped into that one to.

When they started the game, the first thing that they did was announce that they started by reading my iso, and that they were starting out suspicious of me. But then fairly quickly backed down from that read, never to be spoken of again for the remainder of the game.

I found out in the post game, that that was a pre-planned entry maneuver, specifically laying the ground work so that if they needed to sway my read (and only my read) of them in like 3-5 game days, they could prompt me to ask my self "why did they start with my iso right away?"

Because they wanted to be able to guide me to the answer that Town!them would start with my iso, but scum!them would not. The reason being that in our prior game they thought I was so incredibly obviously town, that town!them would start there hoping for an easy read, while scum!them would not want to start with me because they would have assumed that I was town telling already based on that prior game.

That groundwork did not even play out, but they actively, intentionally laid it *just in case*

So yeah, I think they are a uniquely long term thinking scum player.

[Lukewarm]

Having sent that, I am having the feeling that typing all of that out is likely to have a negative effect of the grok-ability of my position to the average reader.

So maybe ignore that, and take the spark notes:

- I believe that they are the type of player that takes pride in setting up dominoes to push down later. Like, actively makes them feel like a better scum player.

- It is a much easier thing to push later on (multiple factors)

- Setting it up now, and letting other people (such as marci) push it for them makes it less likely to lead to backlash after a town!me flip.

[Lukewarm]

luke, would you say that meta pertaining to who you suspect wolfbae is, is influencing your read on him?

Yes. Their identity is central to my suspicions of how they are approaching me.

[Lukewarm]

So uh...

@wolfbae

If 4467 is wildly wrong on who you are, would you be willing to tell me?

I had a sudden sinking feeling of who could actually have a personal reason behind their approach to me, and it's not the person I have been operating believing you are. I was very confident you were the person from 4467 up until this very moment

And if you are actually this new user person I just considered... [redacted]

[Lukewarm]

You're leaning scum on me enough to drop an entire wallpost on me. So if that's the case why vote experience?

Because I think that experience has at least as much likelihood to flip scum, and also has the potential to actually be an elim today.

You got a big post because, from my pov you are the most interesting, dynamically updating set of thoughts that I have had on the game recently. Not because I am declaring my intent to endlessly tunnel/push you until you die.

Ngl you kinda just seem like youre setting up to continue pushing in the dethy hood next phase

*me when I have two (2) scum reads who happen to be in the same hood*

[Lukewarm]

1. It is a reasonable time for me to be awake (although, my posting before that was not at a reasonable time for me awake).

2. I literally just have two scum reads in the hood. If those two did not happen to be in the same hood, would you even bat an eye at that post?

It was basically me being asked "HoW cOuLd YoU vOtE hIm If YoU cLaIm To ScUm ReAd Me??" And then answering is that it is possible to have more then one scum read simultaneously. That is not chaining elims, it just: True Facts With Luke.

[Lukewarm]

making the link into that format is actually pretty genius, ngl

[Lukewarm]

My favorite part is that if you copy and paste it, it does genuinely lead you to a post on page 166 where I said that I battle insomnia.

[Side note: I think that not sleeping in my own bed is making it worse the last couple nights ]

[Lukewarm]

EEH GUYS IS IT OKAY IF I SAY WHO WOLFBAE IS IM

if it helps explain your read on wolfbae, maybe.
but otherwise, i would say no.

PLEASE I CANT HOLD IT IN

WOLFBAE IS PETAPAN 100%

Oh. That is not who I was very confidently sorting them as. I was very sure they were Prism.

Peta is in fact the person I had a sudden sinking feeling that it could be just a little bit ago.

I retract like 70% of my suspicion on them, because it was really tied up in it being prism.

I did have a brief moment of thinking that experience bringing up that micro game (which prompted me to skim my own iso to see if it there were actually any similarities to back up their read change) was informed on wolfbae's identity, because reading that game is where I had the realization it could be Peta.

But then I remembered that he could have picked that in the dethy hood, so probably a nothingburger

[Lukewarm]

For reasons unrelated to this game, I probably won't spend any more posts on wolfbae's alignment unless we literally both make it to elo, or there is a mech inno/guilty.

[Lukewarm]

fwiw:

My approach in 4423 (and the part of 4414 that was quoted in it), was specifically an attempt to push up against Prism's pride as a Luke Reader, to see if they then attempted to see if they could figure out what I was accusing them of missing. Which was something that I then felt was missing from wolfbae's response (hence the "disinterested" comment later.

I do think that there is context that makes even the suspicion that I was trying to save Brian with a Cakez elim crack under scrutiny, but I was purposefully saying that it existed but not saying what it was (and lightly taunting them for missing it) for the above reason . If that ever becomes relevant, I can make that post.

[Lukewarm]

I am literally speechless at 4543

[Lukewarm]

...if the above is town shit like this is exactly why I am not counting on mech to sort the deAAAthy.

You targeted another member of the hood who now can't use the shit to test it. Because inventing isn't multitasking. Wow.

sadly not out of the range of possibility

I had a realization on who experience probably is when he posted about that micro game, and I regret to say that I agree with this take.

I have been baffled by them on many occasions.

[Lukewarm]

I have been baffled by them on many occasions.

I say this affectionately for the record.

[Lukewarm]

I do still lean scum on them for the egregious lack of engagement and sorting, but I do stare at that claim post and think "yeah, I could see this coming from them "

Like regardless of alignment, as like an idiosyncrasy.

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: gypyx

[Lukewarm]

Isn't that everyones role in the dethy

i have no clue.

aintnoway that's a real thought experience is having

Actually...

Didn't experience acknowledge a list of where each inventor should be targeting in the hood? How can they think their role is unrevealed still?

Originally, it was dragons who brought up how bingle wanted us to have lists, and i joined in echoing its a good idea. Experience then quoted what dragons said and said its a good idea and was the first one to come up with a list! followed by dragons, me then sunflower!

Hope this helps <3 Let me know if you need more xoxo

... yikes.

[Lukewarm]

I moved my vote due to the gypyx "townslip"

Both experience and gypyx making it real obvious they simply are not choosing to read the game thread is pretty frustrating regardless of their respective alignments.

I am not really surprised that experience would do that, but Kagerou was so on top of the happenings of the game, so this it is pretty disappointing for gypyx.

I'll probably revisit how much stock I'm gonna put in the gypyx post at some point

[Lukewarm]

Firebagel's approach to you has become white noise in the thread to me.

I don't know if it helps you any that it's not being taking seriously?

It has hit the level of single-minded certainty that every single post is so obviously scummy that I no longer think they have much critical thought behind them in a way that it benefits me to absorb their opinions (and more tunneled-based thoughts).

[Lukewarm]

What Gypyx townslip are we talking about? That thing from way back when she talked about the hood getting info in 344? I always thought that seemed possibly like her just thinking the hood would be told that there was no scum at some point.

However, looking back at it, it occurs to me that it could be the case that scum were given a complementary warning bit of info about the hood. It could literally be that town is warned that something good for scum happens if the hood has scum in it at a certain point; and also scum is warned that something good (like getting info) happens for town if the hood is clear of scum by then. And that was her slipping on what info was public?

Being unaware that crab is a claimed mason.

[Lukewarm]

I have decided that I am not putting a lot of weight to it for the record.

My initial reaction is that that is something that gets talked about in the scum chat, but if gypyx is not reading the game, I guess they could not be reading that either, so :shrug:

[Lukewarm]

I demand a cop-vention tonight.

I want to be involved in the fun thing, and unlike *seemingly every single person who got one last night* I can use the damn thing lol

[Lukewarm]

Gypyx “not being aware” that Hermit Crab is a mason is not even close to a town slip, let’s drop that please. That would not be something difficult for scum in her position to fabricate.

For the record, I put "townslip" on quotes because while it gave me pause, I would not actually call it that.

But I do think that in context, it is very unlikely that it was an intentional fabrication. Regardless of alignment, I don't think gypyx was aware of the claim as she made that post. I just landed on it being plausible that scum!gupyx would also be unaware.

[Lukewarm]

For the record, I put "townslip" on quotes because while it gave me pause, I would not actually call it that...

...but dunn and bingle were referring to it as such.

[Lukewarm]

i mean, it's reasonable people doubt my explanation but not when they're misconstruing my posts and then proceeding to use that as the crux of their case. (like, sure, go ahead and say 'i don't trust experience' but it's annoying when it's like 'experience not knowing that the hood inventors were all the same = experience must be scum dumbtelling')

Dude, I'm sorry, but the "oops all cop inventors" nature of your hood was such a big topic of the Day 1, repeatedly coming up over and over spread through out the day, both before and after you repped in, that for you to have literally never seen it means that you read so little of this game that it is truly negligent levels of not even trying (as either alignment) for you to not have seen it.

Saying it must be you dumb telling as scum is, in my opinion, the nicer assumption about your play this game (you are purposefully doing a silly strat to try to save yourself vs you simply don't give a shit).

[Lukewarm]

I was thinking about the claims, and I actually think that the odds keeper claim is the most "shell game" aspect of this game so far, but it's just directed at the scum team instead of at the town.

The elim = shuffling cups
Bookie=pick the cup
Oddskeep=slight of hand making the bookie wrong, even if they correctly track the cups

[Lukewarm]

I think making a non standard role alongside a lot of standard roles for the design idea is in cephs mod meta (wolfsbane and malefactor from NQN).

[Lukewarm]

Cake tax once I serve it this morning.

Neuter, who is on like four hours of sleep.

why can I not understand any of the posts in this game LOL

To translate:

I will come back and post a picture of the cake I made for mothers day after I serve it to my family

Signed: Cabd, who only managed to get 4 hours of sleep last night

[Lukewarm]

Awh guys i feel bad experience apologized for suboptimal play in the hood

Is that townie to do tho? Unsure

I have been having the same thoughts about his indignation at being accused of a dumbtell

[Lukewarm]

My experience experience is that he used to effort as both alignments, and the writing style of that post was more standard. I actually lost a game in elo to scum!experience (as the deciding voter)

I also had a game where I incorrectly scum read him for lack of analysis, and his response was that I was using "old meta" on him. (I do think that this game is even more egregious ftr)

I don't know where his wim has gone. I actually hate that I can see this coming from town him now that I know who he is. I still lean scum, but I will be shaking my head in disappointment, not shock, if he flip green

[Lukewarm]

Re blood for the blood gods:

Town: Marci
Lean Town: std
No longer feel like I had a read on, they have faded from my mind: sunflower
Lean scum: experience

---

wolfbae:wolfbae

[Lukewarm]

No longer feel like I had a read on, they have faded from my mind: sunflower

(If it was not clear, this is a type of read that is by default lower then null)

[Lukewarm]

Re blood for the blood gods:

Town: Marci
No longer feel like I had a read on, they have faded from my mind: sunflower
Lean scum: experience

---

wolfbae:wolfbae, std

[Lukewarm]

If it wasn't for the fact that that at least 3 (4?)of the people who were given inventions can't use then inventions freely, I would be on team coordinate.

Having 1-2 cops to use makes it much harder to calibrate

[Lukewarm]

(God trying to do this from my phone was painful)

Hermit and Bingle

Town:
Marci -
Spiffeh - was leaning town, strengthened by the brian flip
Shello - I was on the fence about them in day 1, but I liked their reaction to the guilty, and the more I think about their claimed role the more convinced I am that it is quite literally a perfectly designed town role for the set up (shout out to Ceph).

Tentative town:

Cat Scratch Fever
morph the cat (fferyllt & Cabd)
Save The Dragons

Even more tentitive town:
Oblivion - I felt pretty strongly about this read day 1, but they have been gone for so long, and I lack object permanence, so this read is flatlining
Dannflor - I distinctly remember thinking that Dann looked townie, but I quite literally cannot recall why.
Dunn - I leaned town on him for his read progression on me day 2, and especially liked that he actually went and looked at our prior game when I mentioned that he had been wrong before, but I having a lack of alignment thoughts on him today

Meh:
Firebringer
Firebagel
PenguinPower

Meh, Meh:
Sunflower

Would kill:
Gypyx
experience

[Lukewarm]

It doesn't know what that help looks like, be it players chatting with it and asking it questions or attempting to do mental models on players with 200 pages of content to... sift through....

It.... yeah. Just yeah.

don't feel forced to read everything, like, 200 pages is a lot for anyone

you want me to summarize everything?

**I** want to see you summarize everything.

[Lukewarm]

And I’m confirmed town so you know I’m not misdirecting!

Confirmed town unless you and... was it Bingle? are gambiting for some reason which it thinks would be a little TOO much to do at this point. But it doesn't like to speak in absolutes on things like confirmed town unless it's certain... or did something else reconfirm you past the mason claim?

They are not confirmed beyond claim, but I seriously, seriously doubt they would fake claim masons together.

My recommendation (and personal plan) is to treat both as if they were confirmed town, unless they both manage to be alive at like, the day before elo. And even then would still seriously doubt it, but would be contractually obligated to at least give it a double look at that point.

[Lukewarm]

Things of note you might want to look at, and voice opinions on:

Morph claiming a guilty appearing result on Shello, and Shello's response and claim. Link to their joint iso (should take you right to the claim): viewtopic.php?t=92641&user_select[]=221 ... &start=777

Experience's iso

Maybe consider wolfbae's point on gypyx viewtopic.php?p=14178959#p14178959

[Lukewarm]

Okay, thank you.

Gut impression says this is not a readslist expressing a scum agenda which is what I was checking for here. The fact that all the pressure is on the dethy might make this less reliable but I think committed stances on the players outside of it are more valuable than stances inside of it because there's more wiggle room in the larger bunch where scum have to be more strategic about their reads.

I dont think that my day 1 play particularly revolved around the dethy, so if you want to see non-dethy focused Luke, you can look at my iso. I even made a full game reads list when firebringer asked me to.

Even today, my scum read on experience and my prior focus on you were also pretty dethy-agnostic, and you two just ~happen~ to both be dethy people.

[Lukewarm]

Being unaware that crab is a claimed mason.

Why were you so sure this was the townslip in quesstion when you don't see it as a townslip?

I have reading comprehension?

I saw the gypyx post, had the "I wonder if they would be more likely to have missed this as town, because scum chat?" thought.

I then saw yours and dunn's conversation right after, which ended up mirroring my own thoughts. Including your opinion that it was unlikely to be faked because of the comments on experience, and also dunn's opinion that it is something that could have been genuinely missed.

So yeah, I put 2 and 2 together lol.

[Lukewarm]

Lukewarm stop sliding me down.

Be more memorable!

[Lukewarm]

My opinion might change when I re-read day 2, once I am back home, but from randomly phone reading in short bursts through out the day, nothing you've done today has really stuck in my brain.

[Lukewarm]

5013 was meant to be a bit jokey, but 5014 the more genuine version.

I'll keep an eye out for you in particular on my re-read, if that makes you feel any better.

[Lukewarm]

I'm also wondering if we're disabled to prevent 2 people from the hood dying each phase at this point

Spoiler: Only for Shello

My theory is that it turns on if you successfully oddskeeper a bookie guess, like you steal the bookie shot.

[Lukewarm]

Yeah, it seems hard to pull off, but it fits with how I was thinking about the role in 4886, and why I said that it seemed like a perfectly flavorfully designed role for this game.

The reward under the cup is the vig shot.

[Lukewarm]

So thinking about morph possibly being a gunsmith (I dont think it was confirmed?)

But do we think that the dethy is cop-ventors instead of straight cops, so that a gunsmith could invest in there?

Also, does a cop-ventor make their target come back as if they have a gun? If so, morph might need to know who got the cop shots to target?

Also, do we know if inventor or gunsmith resolves first?

[Lukewarm]

Turns out I'm still voting gypyx, I thought I was on experience lol

UNVOTE:

I am open to either experience or sunflower at the moment, I was definitely leaning experience but his ate has shaken my confidence a little.

[Lukewarm]

I have seen everyone else's theories on the when the shello vig turns on, and I still like my personal theory the most

A vig shot is hiding inside one of these cups (elims). If the bookie guesses the right cup, they get the vig shot! (unless shello does a slight of hand and palms it first!)

Of the other theories, I think that maybe hermits is the most plausible. I don't think it turns on with the dethy, and a de-enabler feels random within the setup.

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: experience

[Lukewarm]

I actually ended up liking conquest's game play a lot.

The story was really silly tho.

I actually just recently replayed it, and it is a really good game when you are skipping all the cutscenes

[Lukewarm]

unicorn overlord is my favorite FE game

That is on my to-play list, it also got the Bell stamp of approval.

I just haven't gotten to it yet lol

[Lukewarm]

Despite almost always defaulting to the female avatar (for totally gay reasons™), I ended up as male corrin just so I could start with felicia over jacob

[Lukewarm]

In most games you have to pick the female character in order to have access to romancing most of the male romance options, so that tends to be the default for me.

I know that fates has a gay romance choice, but then it locks you out of 2 child units, and that makes it a no go for my "gotta catch them all" focused brain.

[Lukewarm]

After the DLC came out, I did like Yuri as a gay romance option.

[Lukewarm]

Despite just saying that I default to female characters so I can romance boys, I think that my favorite (non-Yuri) romance is Shamir.

[Lukewarm]

Also they have a frustration with how this is turning into a mechanics focuses game!

I agree with this

This is a confusing take to me, because I feel like this game has been decidedly not been mechanics focused.

[Lukewarm]

Of the biggest wagons of day 1, none of them were due to mechanics.

And of the wagons today, only the Shello one right at the start was due to mechanics.

Like all of the wagons this game have been exclusively traditional reads based.

And with the dethy hood, everyone kinda just decided to treat it as a 1-in-5, and that it is not solvable via mechanics.

[Lukewarm]

I do have a decidedly opposite take on whether town or scum are more likely to voice frustrations at mechanics then notty, but I think spiff is town for other reasons, but it definitely does not make me town read sunflower.

[Lukewarm]

Re: my readslist

I think that I would upgrade firebagel from meh to "Even more tentative town" for his gypyx posting.

[Lukewarm]

The suspicions of gypyx originating from a GD post mainly, but the comments about when she knew about the mason claim seemed to misread gypyx's post too egregiously for scum to not be scared to make it lol

[Lukewarm]

That would be these two:

Spoiler:

Gypyx, please don't ignore me!

When did you realize we were masons?

When you told me you were masons lol

Who is "you"? Are you referring to Crab's post claiming to be confirmed town? If so what made you think that was on the level rather than a joke?

oh right um sorry

well, it was way before that, i've seen the whole discussion around me not knowing that potentially being a townslip

So you're saying you saw HC's claim, then forgot about it when you posted about them leaning town? Then have been seeing people call that a potential townslip and not said anything, continuing to let people think you never saw it in the first place with posts implying that such as 4993 and 4996?

VOTE: Gypyx

Gypyx, please don't ignore me!

When did you realize we were masons?

When you told me you were masons lol

Who is "you"? Are you referring to Crab's post claiming to be confirmed town? If so what made you think that was on the level rather than a joke?

oh right um sorry

well, it was way before that, i've seen the whole discussion around me not knowing that potentially being a townslip

So you're saying you saw HC's claim, then forgot about it when you posted about them leaning town? Then have been seeing people call that a potential townslip and not said anything, continuing to let people think you never saw it in the first place with posts implying that such as 4993 and 4996?

VOTE: Gypyx

Yeah um, sure you've caught me whatever

i didn't see HC's claim when i said i was leaning town on them, that much should be obvious

Uh huh, then might I inquire what prompted this post? Because posting in Mafia Discussion bringing up the best friend role sure suggests it was on your mind. Then showing up in game three hours later posting like you don't know HC claimed that role is pretty wtf.

[Lukewarm]

Okay since it's relevant can we just outright have marci state who experience is?

Because I've been assuming RH9 but sounds like maybe not.

That is also who I believe it to be

[Lukewarm]

wait i thought it was prism

I would eat a hat if experience turns out to be prism

[Lukewarm]

i was mostly trolling luke tbf i didn't think anyone would actually believe that as a possibility

I don't think that prism would be annoyed at mistaking peta for them (although they would absolutely still make fun of me for being so blind)

But I think Prism would be legit offended if I thought that they were experience.

[Lukewarm]

Skitter, I recently saw scum-RH9 massively fuck up on a day one, up close and personal, and I led the D1 elim. That's where this comes from.

It was in ffery's theme. I played as "Lady Terminally Offline":

viewtopic.php?t=92207

If you strip out TL from that hydra's iso, do you think that rh's posts resemble rh's posts here?

[Lukewarm]

Skitter, I recently saw scum-RH9 massively fuck up on a day one, up close and personal, and I led the D1 elim. That's where this comes from.

It was in ffery's theme. I played as "Lady Terminally Offline":

viewtopic.php?t=92207

If you strip out TL from that hydra's iso, do you think that rh's posts resemble rh's posts here?

What's the point of homework if I give out the answers before the due date?

I did the homework, but I have questions. I read it, and I actually feel like RH looked ~okay~ there, and that it was actually TL that did all the stumbling. So I am curious what you see that made you decide to share it

[Lukewarm]

Also I totally missed 5149 but want to call it town.

That was so 2 pages ago man

[Lukewarm]

Is it about how they kinda shut down and went as anti-spew as possible? I could maybe see that angle.

Yeah, this was a lot clearer in the hoods then it was in the main thread.

I guess my thing is that in that game, RH was trucking along trying up until cabd turned on them, and started loudly calling for their elim.

But in this game, he kinda started out that way, before he would really have a reason to be?

Its weird.

[Lukewarm]

I guess being a traitor instead of group scum could explain the difference in his ability to get going.

[Lukewarm]

Also I totally missed 5149 but want to call it town.

That was so 2 pages ago man

that was so 8 pages ago

damn, you right

[Lukewarm]

Most of us (me, hermit, and fireisredsir) just said that it made you more likely to be town.

But I think that Dunn

might have called it dumb

[Lukewarm]

5311 and 5358 are totally smears, just 'cause there's a townread in there doesn't also make it a smear to go "wow that's so dumb it might be towny"

I do think that 5052 relies on a misreading of 5038.

But I never said that the Best Friends post in Mafia Discussions was dumb. Just that it makes you town for making it.

[Lukewarm]

Firebagel, I don't know that it helps you sort me or me sort you to have a back and forth on what I think you misunderstood in that post, especially because you have already dropped the line of questioning on your own.

I was just trying to make it clear that I was not calling you dumb.

[Lukewarm]

So as someone in that game they looked worse there. I pointed out why exactly in my iso in that game

I agree that they looked really bad in that game, I was spectating it, and from the spectator thread I was saying they were clearly mafia.

But my problem was that I was really sure the TL was mafia, and RH was just kinda along for the ride, and stripping TL from the iso reading it back, I was unsure why Cabd sent it.

I do think that RH looked worse in the hood tho. I need to go back and look at a joint cabd+RH iso, to see the inflection point there, but that might not happen tonight.

[Lukewarm]

dunnstral personally if you had a 1x cop shot of unknown sanity, who would you aim it at?

(I am not dunn)

But I would aim it at either csf or one of the masons, in order to start the calibration process. Which is not a fun answer, but its what I would do.

[Lukewarm]

dunnstral personally if you had a 1x cop shot of unknown sanity, who would you aim it at?

(I am not dunn)

But I would aim it at either csf or one of the masons, in order to start the calibration process. Which is not a fun answer, but its what I would do.

ignoring "calibration" who do you choose

If I had an already calibrated shot, I would not use it on anyone in the dethy because of dethy mechanics.

So, maybe gypyx? Firebringer?

[Lukewarm]

Was sunflower referencing a game that they had previously played with Oblivion, or were they referencing a game that they had read while looking into meta?

[Lukewarm]

[Lukewarm]

Also spayhalf is sad to see we're so low in his townreads at this point.

ffery, you guys went from *me voting you* to tier 2 town, with like 3 people (excluding masons) in the tier above you.

I think that was the best you could have hoped for. You gotta let me leave a little room to pretend that my day 1 reasons were not entirely bunk.

[Lukewarm]

Any reason not to just VOTE: Sunflower?

My only concern is that we pretty hard signaled this to be the next elim, and we know there is a bookie :/

[Lukewarm]

You are so right. Hopefully they did

[Lukewarm]

Shello, did you oddskeeper last night ?

[Lukewarm]

Shello, who did you oddskeeper last night ?

[Lukewarm]

I think we just dunk sunflower and go into next night phase unless anyone has anything they wanna do?

I am just wanting to make sure sunflower is oddskeepered so it's safe

[Lukewarm]

i can't read LOL

No, I did and ebwop lol

[Lukewarm]

If the dethy hood did not have the mod note about a scum boon, I would also entertain the idea that the dethy hood could be a misdirect.

But the mod note feels like it would be a step too far (beyond just having 5 inventors with 4 unknown sanities), so I am not really entertaining the possibility.

VOTE: sunflower

[Lukewarm]

Well - I chose incorrectly. Sorry morph.

?

[Lukewarm]

Why are you outing that that would matter?

[Lukewarm]

Marci is my strongest non-mason town read. I think pooky put it best with

I think she’s town because she’s comfortable being a bad bitch

[Lukewarm]

Yep.

[Lukewarm]

That should have had a 5670 quote.

[Lukewarm]

I simply dont think that scum marci locked in the dethy hood opens up the game the way that she did. Outing the hood, outing the There Is A Scum In The Hood message, saying we should kill in the hood, and voting actiondan. All of her suspicions around the hood felt pretty natural to me as well.

I also town read her slow reveal of the hood info. Both with during the dethy reveal, and CONSTANTLY on what is being said in there. It feels like her entire engagement lacks the ulterior motive of picking and choosing what is beneficial to the scum team for her to reveal, and she is just free form info dropping as she thinks about things.

Yesterday, I really liked how her suspicion of me colored her view of me scum reading both experience and wolfbae as me setting up a chain elimination, and then instant about face reaction.

I remember liking her calling my morph+marci association a shit read, and I also felt like her frustration at being called fake sounding seemed genuine.

[Lukewarm]

VLA for a coupled days

sorry

[Lukewarm]

I did say that the thief stolen thing needs to be confirmed.

We never disclosed exactly how our fruits could be manipulated, so nobody but the vendors should’ve known that stealing fruits alerts them. Given that the inventors not knowing that their inventions can be stolen and scum most likely being one of the inventors, the chance is that our roles are supposed to fuck them over somehow if caught in action and that scum probably don’t know about what fruit does, unless Cakez is scum.

-HM

Is cakez also a fruit vendor?

Is he the one who gave me my mystery fruit?

[Lukewarm]

My stock on luke is going down

Can you talk more about this?

luke is not on the table rn sorry

Marci, why did you say this/

[Lukewarm]

My stock on luke is going down

Can you talk more about this?

luke is not on the table rn sorry

Marci, why did you say this/

zipper

The ONE time you decide to keep a secret, smh

[Lukewarm]

My stock on luke is going down

Can you talk more about this?

this was a skitterpost but i agreed; i'm unsure if my recollection of the game is correct since i've been paying less attention than i should but like:

If the dethy hood did not have the mod note about a scum boon, I would also entertain the idea that the dethy hood could be a misdirect.

But the mod note feels like it would be a step too far (beyond just having 5 inventors with 4 unknown sanities), so I am not really entertaining the possibility.

VOTE: sunflower

when luke posted this i told skitter i didn't like it, it feels very... perfunctory, i guess. saying nothing that is really new or helpful with a vote tacked on at the end which struck me as odd. i think if luke is a wolf this game his goal has been to like... post reads that feel good and like he's engaging the game, going against the grain of it, but when it comes time to vote he is very okay with just... voting main wagons.

i don't think this is a very compelling case and there are people i want to die well before luke but i don't think he's at the place where he was before in my reads when i was struggling to call people town at all on day 1 and luke was the first person i thought of

- ydra

I don't think my posts was revolutionary or anything, but it was in direct response to std talking about the possibility of no scum. I saw someone musing about something, and I shared my opinion.

My vote was unrelated to that discussion. It was just my first post after this:

I think we just dunk sunflower and go into next night phase unless anyone has anything they wanna do?

I am just wanting to make sure sunflower is oddskeepered so it's safe

We oddskept sunflower
Fine with ending on them but I don't want to rush the day

Although I have been fairly okay with not taking charge and leading this game.

So far the days are simply trending towards my people solidly in my poe

[Lukewarm]

We’re trying to calibrate the shots is the reason.

Gee, from what I was reading it seemed like everyone had basically given up on getting any use out of them (and I don't understand why). Scum are presumed to have a bus driver, remember? And possibly a roleblocker if Firebringer is to be believed. I don't think giving them info on how to expect further actions to be used is a great idea. In contrast, how does having that info NOW help anything? It needs at least two nights' info from the same source to possibly know the reliability, right? It's not like I'm not going to be here later to talk about it.

(side note, if I'm not here later to talk about it because scum shot me out of fear of my incredible info on a cop shot of unknown reliability or that I actually have a better power and didn't even use it, I will consider that the most hilarious win possible )

To be clear, no one is asking you to claim a cop shot you may or may not have just gotten.

You were being asked about a night 2 cop shot, which should presumably already be used. So it's kinda too late for them to mess with it?

[Lukewarm]

Luke wrote a case on morph and then a short time later said "I am thinking of handing my vote to them" which is just not...something you do as town if you are concerned a strong player(s) are scum. Placing that level of trust didn't make sense.

You and I simply have a difference of opinion on this matter.

From my POV, the worst possible world was scum!morph being allowed to sit with suspicions that were not getting flipped. And the best possible world was town!morph proving me wrong by lining up the scum team for me.

[Lukewarm]

oh also his positioning on brian/cakez was wolfy. I didn't bring it up yesterday because, again, didn't feel like getting into an argument over it, but I should probably discuss this stuff at some point cuz I'm not living forever in this game

Spoiler: Luke posts about Cakez

He uh... left, didn't he?

omg, I am reading through, and every single post that was not a cakez post made me think this exact through

I have a bit of concern that it took Cakez 12 minutes to respond to the pooky's raised eyebrow.

Yeah...

This was his time between posts leading up to it

1 min
3 min
1 min
7 min (Slip accusation)
13 mins to respond.

im bored of the game thread as of late, esp of brian

Did you have any thoughts about the cakez thing?

VOTE: cakez

I've actually decided that this is good

At this point I am Most Bothered that it resulted in a full thread abandonment after he got his explanation out, despite his promises to solve the game right before

the whole cakez was too affraid to post thing and was too slow to respond stuff is really really dumb guys.

Like are u listening to urselves on that shit?

Do u all remember even what ur talking about with regards to the question? The question from pooky was about how he knew it was notsci but not read anything. The answer can be as simple as he read 2 pages prior.

IT can be that fucking simple, and yet we have people here taking it like there is a some sort of grand mystery that cakez has to hide from because he got outted.

Fucking dumb as shit.

Hell, i have been hounded for stuff like that where i say "I haven't reaad shit" and actually read a few pages prior and then people focused me down for this "INCONSISTENCY". No its called me exaggerating that i am very not well read on the game so i didn't tell u that i haven't read everything which is true.

The question it self (how did you know it was notty) is nearly irrelevant to me at this point.

The thing is that his reaction looked like a dear caught in head lights, and then once he came up with his answer, he completely thread bailed.

He literally showed up like this

Spoiler:

y'all there is no way I can catch up here any time soon
But I want to start playing this game so I'm just gonna jump in and figure it out

And SirBakez can solve the shit out of this game

And what should be a super easy question appeared to rattle him enough that he dipped.

Hello friends. I stared at the PL, and I think that I could happily compromise to any of :

Firebringer
Brian Skies
Sunflower (JupiterXV & fireisredsir)
SirCakez
Klick
Bingle
Firebagel

(PenguinPower is omitted solely for having a cute avatar that I really like, so it would be a sad compromise)

I got you csf

VOTE: cakez

Cakez, care to put more words to your firebagel read?

Sigh

Crabz, do y'all have thoughts on this?

Same question to you, Luke.

other's thoughts also welcome.

I am of two minds when I look at his top 4 scum reads.

In my left brain, I don't think that scum-Cakez would feel super confident in dropping you guys in the bottom tier.

In my right brain, I think that landing on Brian being his strongest scum read is exactly who scum-Cakez needs to have as his strongest scum read.

Sigh

Crabz, do y'all have thoughts on this?

Same question to you, Luke.

other's thoughts also welcome.

I am of two minds when I look at his top 4 scum reads.

In my left brain, I don't think that scum-Cakez would feel super confident in dropping you guys in the bottom tier.

In my right brain, I think that landing on Brian being his strongest scum read is exactly who scum-Cakez needs to have as his strongest scum read.

You're scumreading us afaik. How do you think scum-me/scum-cakez would position around each other? Is this situation what you expect from that perspective?

In general, I don't like to team solve, so that seems more like a question for after one or the other of you actually flip scum.

If try to pretend that cakez is flipped scum right now, I don't think that your interactions are clearing? I can see you guys suggesting he needs a ballsy scum read if he wants to pull himself out of the hole he was in. But I also don't think that it is particularly linked either?

But again, that is a question that gets more brain power after a flip.

Sigh

Crabz, do y'all have thoughts on this?

Same question to you, Luke.

other's thoughts also welcome.

I am of two minds when I look at his top 4 scum reads.

In my left brain, I don't think that scum-Cakez would feel super confident in dropping you guys in the bottom tier.

In my right brain, I think that landing on Brian being his strongest scum read is exactly who scum-Cakez needs to have as his strongest scum read.

Why are you looking at everything from the angle of would scum!Cakez do this? What about would town!Cakez do this? I feel like everyone in this game is good enough to see how scummy Brian's recent posting has been, I almost feel like it would be egregious to not vote him given the wagon existing too.

Turns out "Do I think that scum would do this / benefit from doing this" is a question I ask myself when trying to discern someones alignment.

Hope that helps.

@Cakez, what is your opinion of Dann, Hermit, and morph's reactions to the deathy reveal. (Started around 564)

Sigh

Crabz, do y'all have thoughts on this?

Same question to you, Luke.

other's thoughts also welcome.

I am of two minds when I look at his top 4 scum reads.

In my left brain, I don't think that scum-Cakez would feel super confident in dropping you guys in the bottom tier.

In my right brain, I think that landing on Brian being his strongest scum read is exactly who scum-Cakez needs to have as his strongest scum read.

Why are you looking at everything from the angle of would scum!Cakez do this? What about would town!Cakez do this? I feel like everyone in this game is good enough to see how scummy Brian's recent posting has been, I almost feel like it would be egregious to not vote him given the wagon existing too.

Turns out "Do I think that scum would do this / benefit from doing this" is a question I ask myself when trying to discern someones alignment.

Hope that helps.

Sassy okay

The not sassy answer is that town is posting the things that they believe (generally), so "Would town!Cakez do this" is actually "does cakez believe these things?"

Scum don't start at belief. They start at "what helps them?", tempered by "what do they think they can justify?"

So "Do I think that scum would do this / benefit from doing this" is an easier question to think about first, because that kind of positional benefit can be easier to see from a surface level / first time reading. While "does cakez actually believe these things" a deeper read (and often follow up questions)

If yall both want cakez, I could vote with you guys.

I do also wish he had been able to answer my question from his AMA

If yall both want cakez [over Brian], I could vote with you guys.

... to make that a real wagon again

@Cakez, what is your opinion of Dann, Hermit, and morph's reactions to the deathy reveal. (Started around 564)

this?

I was hoping to force him to voice opinions on morph (without hiding behind me and bingle), hermit (without it being tied up in hermit scum reading him), and I threw dann in there because just asking about morph and hermit felt wrong and there have been opinions voiced about dann's reaction, so was the first "AND A THIRD NAME" choice that came to mind lol

Is there a reason why you did not take me up on the offer to vote Cakez with you to keep that wagon alive?

I was suggesting it less as a "And now we kill Cakez" vote, and more of a "stop that wagon from losing all steam" vote.

Brian 10 (Spiffeh, morph, marci, Lukewarm, Dunnstral, Sunflower, Pooky, SirCakez, Penguin, CSF)
SirCakez 3 (Firebagel, STD, Brian)

But if you want to wait for Her Mitt to weigh in, sure

VOTE: cakez

Like tonally this sounds so incredibly similar to xeno cakez I’m astounded

I read the iso you linked.

I can kind of see some similarities from before his catchup, but I don't really see any similarities with his posting from today.

I think that his tone today is the best part of his entire iso, so i'm confused on his tone being the thing that is pinging you.

I felt like he sounded really tense in that iso, like basically the entire time he was under suspicion, and his pushes seemed really overly aggressive because of it.

But he did not seem tense to me in the posting that he had today, but :shrug:

I guess it is not all that worth debating, because I am not even town reading him. I am just not reading the tone the same way at all.

For example Dunn's level of engagement and scumhunting this game has felt beyond what I've seen him pull off as scum in the past.

Does them being bad faith make him scum? I feel like Dunn does this as either alignment

I kind of felt like both parts of how he talked about you did not make sense to me, but was curious if there was a history there.

There are people who I think use bad reasons to town read me, but keep use that same reason repeatedly, so I stopped balking when I see it. So was kinda checking if that was the case here. But it does not sound like it.

@Cakez, what is your opinion of Dann, Hermit, and morph's reactions to the deathy reveal. (Started around 564)

I feel like you're referencing something specific in this situation that I'm totally missing, I reread it twice and I'm not getting much from it, seems pretty reasonable from all the people you mentioned?

It s a lot easier to come in scumreading morph when two other people laid the foundational work and all you’re essentially doing is fanning the paranoia (sound familiar, Luke?)

And his read on us is hedged to hell and back lol

how am I supposed to give an unbiased read on your slot when you make posts shading me every five seconds

It's almost like I pointed you directly at a different point of the game, and tried to get you to give opinions on slots (including hermit) when not in reference to yourself.

I'm not looking for something specific, as much as pointing you at a portion of the game that I feel like you should be able to make Alignment Indicative statements about.

Like I need you to voice opinions that are more grounded then the ones you've made about those slots so far.

@Cakez, what is your opinion of Dann, Hermit, and morph's reactions to the deathy reveal. (Started around 564)

I feel like you're referencing something specific in this situation that I'm totally missing, I reread it twice and I'm not getting much from it, seems pretty reasonable from all the people you mentioned?

It s a lot easier to come in scumreading morph when two other people laid the foundational work and all you’re essentially doing is fanning the paranoia (sound familiar, Luke?)

And his read on us is hedged to hell and back lol

how am I supposed to give an unbiased read on your slot when you make posts shading me every five seconds

It's almost like I pointed you directly at a different point of the game, and tried to get you to give opinions on slots (including hermit) when not in reference to yourself.

I'm not looking for something specific, as much as pointing you at a portion of the game that I feel like you should be able to make Alignment Indicative statements about.

Like I need you to voice opinions that are more grounded then the ones you've made about those slots so far.

I wish you had just said this straight up instead, I can try to do this for you when I'm at a computer

Cakez has this happened?

I see that hermit has dropped lower in your reads, what is the reason for that?

But Hermit's play towards me has felt like it was disingenuous and in bad faith toward me from the start.I think their insistence on my play being somehow exactly like Xenoblade 2 is a prime example.

If notty did not genuinely think that there were similarities between the two, do you think he would have gone so far as to link your iso, and repeatedly bug people on whether or not they read it?

Like, I disagree with his take that they are super similar, but given the way he has pushed it (double and triple checking that Skitter and Spiff read the other iso)

It seems to me like even if he is scum (I don't think that he is for the record), that notty genuinely believes that if people read the two isos, there are similarities to draw between the two.

Spoiler: Luke posts about Brian

I've got townleans of various degrees on Firebagel, Pooky, Sunflower, Dunn, and Spiffeh.

I've got scumleans of various degrees on Shello, STD, Dan, and Morph.

Then we've also got confirmed scum Firepup.

Wow, didn't even make the cut to be mentioned.

im bored of the game thread as of late, esp of brian

Did you have any thoughts about the cakez thing?

I think if you put a gun to my head I’d feel pretty confident saying

Brian/Cakez/Gypyx/(sunflower/klick)/super secret pocket read

But that could just be copium.

honestly this feels like an answer that is too easy.

Brian, cakez, gypyx is ~approximately~ sorting the PL by post count.

I guess unless your pocket read is super spicy

Hello friends. I stared at the PL, and I think that I could happily compromise to any of :

Firebringer
Brian Skies
Sunflower (JupiterXV & fireisredsir)
SirCakez
Klick
Bingle
Firebagel

(PenguinPower is omitted solely for having a cute avatar that I really like, so it would be a sad compromise)

VOTE: Brian

if shello was not a hydra, I would feel more strongly about this, but I had a minor alarm bell go off seeing the slot vote gypyx, but move the vote one hour later to cakez when doing so would keep the brian/cakex wagons tied, and there having been no new content from either gypyx or cakez.

But I did see that it was different heads that cast each vote.

i don't see the reasons for cakez scum. I know i misread him all the time so im going to outsource my read on him but like wtf is the case there?

I repeat what i said like 10 pages agon brian skies, I get the feeling and reason he is wagoned. ITs just the fact he is always wagoned day 1 in games i play with him and he is always town when it happens that makes me go that this is bad.

I just really want to elim bingle and im too lazy to case him or lead the charge there. Nor do i think anyone will listen to me (but honestly just using that as an excuse not to put in the effort to try)

This post is pinging me

What part?

a) it feels whiteknight-y of you while not really committing to the townread

b) I guess I'm surprised by how much he wants Bingle

That post pings me too.

Both what he said about brian and what he said about cakez feel like the kind of things scum might say to voice differing opinions on town wagons while also not actually saying anything that might slow down/stop the wagons in anyway.

VOTE: Brian

Double checking, this seems to be e-2

He spent 25 posts being absolutely

brutal

to Cakez and accusing him of being frozen scum who was dodging the thread

and yet fort Brian he...didn't really seem to care about discussing his alignment or his content at all?

This still has the how and when problem, but :shrug:

The vast majority of my strong cakez push came when brian was not a wagon. I stopped my cakez push approximately when brian became a wagon (the first time I voted Brian). As opposed to keeping my push on my strongly voiced read that was voiced prior to the wagon, so it would never be viewed as in response to the wagon. I feel pretty confident that if I was scum with brian, continuing my cakez push would have been so easy to do?

And even when I was "reviving" the cakez wagon, it would have been such a silly and bad attempt at saving him, that its wild to see it brought up repeatedly. I wanted to save Brian, so I *checks notes* repeatedly told Notty that I disagreed with his strongest voiced reason for scum reading Cakez. Instead of being "re-convinced" by the game he linked, and reigniting my prior push.

And even when I prodded notty and shello to vote cakez, like, I was not doing it in a way that I think had any chance to sway anyone off of the brian wagon? Largely because I was not trying to, but like both of them were already off wagon, and they were literally the only ones I talked to.

And like, if you are assuming a world where I was scum with Brian, and I wanted to save him, before giving up and bussing, you are also accepting that as I finally gave up and bussed I chose to say zero things about him to make myself look better on his flip.

It just feels like the theory has to start with an assumption that I am bad at playing scum.

---

I did not talk alot about Brian, because I did not feel like I had anything novel to say. Someone else pointed out that he was scummy, I read his iso, was dissapointed, shrugged, and joined.

And on the flip side I ended up having pangs of doubt on cakez!scum. Not enough to town read him, but enough to tip the scales slightly in favor of Brian. I was actually thinking more about cakez as I voted Brian (the second time) then I was thinking about Brian.

[Lukewarm]

We’re trying to calibrate the shots is the reason.

Gee, from what I was reading it seemed like everyone had basically given up on getting any use out of them (and I don't understand why). Scum are presumed to have a bus driver, remember? And possibly a roleblocker if Firebringer is to be believed. I don't think giving them info on how to expect further actions to be used is a great idea. In contrast, how does having that info NOW help anything? It needs at least two nights' info from the same source to possibly know the reliability, right? It's not like I'm not going to be here later to talk about it.

(side note, if I'm not here later to talk about it because scum shot me out of fear of my incredible info on a cop shot of unknown reliability or that I actually have a better power and didn't even use it, I will consider that the most hilarious win possible )

To be clear, no one is asking you to claim a cop shot you may or may not have just gotten.

You were being asked about a night 2 cop shot, which should presumably already be used. So it's kinda too late for them to mess with it?

No no, I understand what's being asked, just not why. Literally only one other inventor shot even got a result last night so there isn't exactly a great framework here, and how exactly would comparing them solve it better now even if we had five results? We have players who investigate as known alignments so that provides instantaneous feedback. To use the one result that we have as an example, it was targeted at CSF and got an innocent. Assuming it wasn't redirected or lied about, it has to be either Naive or Inverse because that's wrong. Targeting the same inventor's invention at a known innocent next should clear up which it was because Naive will still give an innocent but Inverse will make the innocent look guilty. Am I missing something about why all the other inventions matter?

Who ever got the second shot from the inventor that gave you a shot, needs to know if you did a calibration shot or not.

If you targeted CSF, a mason, or morph, then they need to be out trying to properly investigate. If you targeted anyone else, they need to calibrate your result.

For the same reason, wolfbae needs to say "I gave my 2nd cop shot to one of [these 3 people]" so that they know they got the same one as you.

Yours is literally the only one that we can possibly make progress on calibrating at this time.

[Lukewarm]

I literally do not care

you can cook up any explanation ex post facto, none of it is meaningful whatsoever

I don't expect anyone to just take my word for it, but like... actually look at the timing of when I was pushing cakez vs the existance of the brain wagon, and how I engaged with the cakez push as brian became a wagon, instead of simply opening my iso and hitting "ctrl+f" and searching for brian and cakez.

[Lukewarm]

I am saying that I really think that your suspicion only makes sense if you start at my iso out side of the context of when my posts were made.

[Lukewarm]

I'm not outing my Night 2 target because scum have a thief

That is why I said there should be a pool.

The person who got the cop shot can know they got it, but no one else would.

Hell, you can make the pool as big as you want, so long as you don't overlap with the people other inventors actually gave theirs to.

"If any of these 9 people" have a cop shot, they should use it as [an invest, a calibration shot].

[Lukewarm]

I do not care

okay.

[Lukewarm]

I'm not outing my Night 2 target because scum have a thief

That is why I said there should be a pool.

The person who got the cop shot can know they got it, but no one else would.

Hell, you can make the pool as big as you want, so long as you don't overlap with the people other inventors actually gave theirs to.

"If any of these 9 people" have a cop shot, they should use it as [an invest, a calibration shot].

I made the pools last night using an entirely random order. There were 9 valid targets.

I went in alphabetical order so marci got 3 and everyone else got 2, although I guess Sunflower used his cop shot.

I'm not outing a 50/50.

Then you... should not have outed this methodology...

[Lukewarm]

If scum is in the hood, they already know your 50/50.

If it is a traitor in the hood, then you could have asked marci to give you 1 name you did not use, and then you would have had a pool of 3.

Yours is the only one that is having progress made on it.

[Lukewarm]

You could have also thrown in a couple names off your 9 name list for good measure.