Newbie 1826 Basketball Game Over

[Thor665]

Thor - can you now make your case on NSG? She is confirmed scum to you.

My case would be what I already said and add in a side of obvious UCV defense until being backed into voting me. But I actually don't think that's too brilliant as a tell since basically two people I know are town have been doing the same because that slot is impossible to lynch.

I'd note that a better arguement is that I don't make sense as a scumbuddy to anyone as I've attacked and been attacked by all - so, y'know, enjoy that Luca/Thor scum theatre I guess.

[Thor665]

unless i've missed something, isn't a team of you and ucv still a technical possibility? if ucv does flip red this is something to look at.

Yeah, we *totes* look like partners.
Nice cover to his eventual red flip though.

[Luca Blight]

Toto, please explain why you're now townreading UCV.

[Toto]

Well we might as well get UCV flipped since nothing much is happening.
VOTE: UCV

L-1.

Yep, I've seen enough.
VOTE: Voyager

That's hammer.

So what alignment were you, Voyager?
Lying after having already been lynched is extremely bad etiquette, so please don't do that. It is known as "twilight trolling".

someone left the train btw
i thought you already vote anyway

VOTE: Demios
sorry. he is trying to make advantage of something that was a simple noob mistake. Just because you claim when you play in ToS, i dont play that way. what does ToS even have to do with this. It makes no since!

I feel the town

[Luca Blight]

Why does that post make him Town?

[Luca Blight]

What about the bit just after when he deliberately tries to townslip by claiming 'just in case' it was hammer, when he clearly knew it wasn't?

[northsidegal]

think i missed that.

Nsg - my problem with your wagon and nk analysis is that

1) its just fitting a logical analysis of events where I need to assume you and ucv are town first. This may be just inexperience from you and assume there is always a logical explanation or that it is hard to fit logical explanations to any hypothesis here. I can grab any pair of you and make up a wagon and nk explanation story that makes sense for that pair.

2) you seem to have a good grasp of other peoples emotions and I need you to tell me why Thor and Luca are thinking and why are scummy in their own behavior. Tell me why what they are saying or not saying is scummy.

despite what others have been saying about my point, you don't need to assume that me or ucv is town for it to make sense. from what we know of the nightkill scum were playing the long game - you don't have to assume that i'm town or that ucv is town to see that the players most likely to be playing the long game were plot and deimos.

thor and luca are very, very good players - among the best. i have no doubt that both of them have the ability to play a scum game almost entirely indistinguishable from their town game, so completely honestly i can't point to anything specfically that they're saying and say "this is scummy". what i can do is try to look at the context of their actions or the reasons behind them - like i was stressing so much earlier, the why of actions. the push on ucv at the start of day two was scum driven, i believe. it was easy mislynch bait and deimos' 347 looks so pre-planned that i have no doubt that it was typed up during the night. when it became apparent that ucv might not be the easy lynch that they thought he was, deimos transitioned over to the second player that he could push an easy wagon on - clemency. it had already been pointed out earlier in the game how clemency was apathetic in the one scumgame he had that everyone was in, so in 523 deimos makes the transition over. it's obvious to me that it seems to just be a personality trait moreso than anything hugely alignment indicative - i think anyone should be able to see that, especially someone who had played games with him before.

[northsidegal]

unless i've missed something, isn't a team of you and ucv still a technical possibility? if ucv does flip red this is something to look at.

Yeah, we *totes* look like partners.
Nice cover to his eventual red flip though.

wow, rolling your eyes - an unbeatable defense!

i don't think you're partners, it's just misleading to say that it's not possible for you to be partners.

[Luca Blight]

Damn, I really thought he'd fall for the fake hammer.

if im wrong and it is a hammer, i am VT town alligned

oh it isn't. ok.....well then....it doesn't matter since all town are VT, so it doesn't help scum find PR.

Not only does he claim when he already knew the hammer was fake (he realised late that he missed an opportunity to grab town points like Clemency did with his fake hammer) he would have been alerted to Deimos' post stating it was a fake hammer before he submitted his own.

[Thor665]

i don't think you're partners, it's just misleading to say that it's not possible for you to be partners.

This is why I eyeroll - you're saying this to me like I'm town.
All you're hanging on is that Luca and I are scum theatre and that Toto clings to his really weird UCV town read which he can barely explain and it's going to come out how empty it is.

[Thor665]

You're bringing up the UCV thing to try to cover your butt tomorrow to still give your team some sort of chance.

[Luca Blight]

NSG is hard-townreading UCV entirely due to his Assemble hammer - but I offered a valid explanation of that hammer from a UCV!Scum perspective in 1557 to which she has not replied.

[Luca Blight]

@Toto: if you believe UCV is Town it must mean you believe I am scum.

Why, as scum, would I not only abandon the plan to bus Thor, which would have been going swimmingly until that point, but also vote UCV when he still townread me, confirming to him that we're of opposing alignments?

[northsidegal]

i don't think you're partners, it's just misleading to say that it's not possible for you to be partners.

This is why I eyeroll - you're saying this to me like I'm town.
All you're hanging on is that Luca and I are scum theatre and that Toto clings to his really weird UCV town read which he can barely explain and it's going to come out how empty it is.

how am i saying it to you like you're town? i wasn't even really saying something to you specifically, i was more elaborating on what i had said.

You're bringing up the UCV thing to try to cover your butt tomorrow to still give your team some sort of chance.

this is a really obvious point to make against me and it doesn't even mean anything. i was pointing out somewhere where you were being disingenuous - it just happened to also be something that would imply you and ucv are a scumteam.

[northsidegal]

@Toto: if you believe UCV is Town it must mean you believe I am scum.

Why, as scum, would I not only abandon the plan to bus Thor, which would have been going swimmingly until that point, but also vote UCV when he still townread me, confirming to him that we're of opposing alignments?

we already had a whole discussion where i explained this - your response to it at the end was that it was "reaching", or something along those lines.

[northsidegal]

NSG is hard-townreading UCV entirely due to his Assemble hammer

entirely false.

[Luca Blight]

@Toto: if you believe UCV is Town it must mean you believe I am scum.

Why, as scum, would I not only abandon the plan to bus Thor, which would have been going swimmingly until that point, but also vote UCV when he still townread me, confirming to him that we're of opposing alignments?

we already had a whole discussion where i explained this - your response to it at the end was that it was "reaching", or something along those lines.

Because there is no reasonable explanation from a Scum!Luca perspective - the game would have been won if I was Thor's partner, there would have been no need to take the risk of reversing and making enemies of UCV who would have been my ticket to victory up until that point.

[Luca Blight]

NSG is hard-townreading UCV entirely due to his Assemble hammer

entirely false.

How about you explain your read in more depth, then?

[UC Voyager]

WOW!


the scum team just got terrified! didn't they!

I will admit some of the statments from Toto and NSG are vague, but that is besides the point!

you seem to have taken the fact i was about to give up to your advantage! calling ATE! trying to scum read someone for ATE is like scum reading someone for OMGUS! it isn't a valid point because scum don't OMGUS and ATE! I think what NSG is getting at here is that I am townie because most scum would not risk hammering like that! there is more to it

I want to repeat this if i haven't all ready said it

When Thor replaced in, the first thing he did was hop on the biggest wagon! then once it died down, he stayed on it which didn't contribute much! finally, everybody sheeped him and a townie was lynched!

You walk into today thinking you will bus your partner and make NSG the partner and win day 5, but then you realize you had a good chance of lynching me, so then you decide. HEY LETS TRy it! then people started to catch on!

[Luca Blight]

Right, so I, as scum, would go into today with the plan of bussing Thor and presumably getting UCV on my side, and then after I have achieved this to perfection I then decide to throw it down the drain and vote UCV, conforming to the guy I was banking on winning me the game that I'm scum?

This isn't a reasonable conclusion.

[Toto]

have no doubt that both of them have the ability to play a scum game almost entirely indistinguishable from their town game, so completely honestly i can't point to anything specfically that they're saying and say "this is scummy"

This is not acceptable.

[UC Voyager]

Right, so I, as scum, would go into today with the plan of bussing Thor and presumably getting UCV on my side, and then after I have achieved this to perfection I then decide to throw it down the drain and vote UCV, conforming to the guy I was banking on winning me the game that I'm scum?

This isn't a reasonable conclusion.

YES, because you thought you could win day four and not risk a 1v2 day 5!

[Thor665]

Right, so I, as scum, would go into today with the plan of bussing Thor and presumably getting UCV on my side, and then after I have achieved this to perfection I then decide to throw it down the drain and vote UCV, conforming to the guy I was banking on winning me the game that I'm scum?

This isn't a reasonable conclusion.

YES, because you thought you could win day four and not risk a 1v2 day 5!

But literally nothing changed to make him think that.

[Luca Blight]

Right, so I, as scum, would go into today with the plan of bussing Thor and presumably getting UCV on my side, and then after I have achieved this to perfection I then decide to throw it down the drain and vote UCV, conforming to the guy I was banking on winning me the game that I'm scum?

This isn't a reasonable conclusion.

YES, because you thought you could win day four and not risk a 1v2 day 5!

There would have been little to no risk in it - you had NSG and Thor locked as scum.

The real unnecessary risk would have been to go against the plan and make an enemy of the person who would have won me the game.

[UC Voyager]

Right, so I, as scum, would go into today with the plan of bussing Thor and presumably getting UCV on my side, and then after I have achieved this to perfection I then decide to throw it down the drain and vote UCV, conforming to the guy I was banking on winning me the game that I'm scum?

This isn't a reasonable conclusion.

YES, because you thought you could win day four and not risk a 1v2 day 5!

But literally nothing changed to make him think that.

YES!

he found a half decent case for me
he saw you voted me all ready
Then he made his vote on me


notice how before he was town reading me all of the way and pushing a thor lynch until i voted for thor, then he turns around and votes me!

He uses "i was trying to get his partner to town read him" as an excuse, but still! I find so much BS in that! he made a 180 flip because he wanted to end the game faster