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Post #158 (isolation #6) » Fri Jan 26, 2024 7:37 am
Postby T-Bone »
In post 154, Dannflor wrote:
I just want to quote this fully because I think the end reaction by Python to my thinking aloud very early push on them is... like not a town reaction
i don't feel Python cares about actually sorting me (especially considering they later lump me into a scum read pile) but rather is here to solely play defense and "win" this interaction we had
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Post #164 (isolation #7) » Fri Jan 26, 2024 7:39 am
Postby T-Bone »
I guess to be fair to that read Dann, I think it's correct, but as Python is referencing a previous game in their interactions with me, I think their goal is to "win" whatever it is they are doing with me as well. Which is...consistent with what i think of them as a player and I'm not sure is alignment indicative behavior.
In post 154, Dannflor wrote:
I just want to quote this fully because I think the end reaction by Python to my thinking aloud very early push on them is... like not a town reaction
i don't feel Python cares about actually sorting me (especially considering they later lump me into a scum read pile) but rather is here to solely play defense and "win" this interaction we had
Mind meld honestly.
Same
Does anyone who knows them know if python is this reactive as town?
It's certainly possible!
I'm actually surprised Python is not more bothered by this. Is it growth or an instinct to try and not get scum read for getting into it with anyone? I'm hoping for the former, for the record.
In post 189, Dannflor wrote:
pretty general scum tell that I've had a lot of success using is outsized emotional reactions when the prompt doesn't match up. it doesn't really matter if it's defensiveness or sadness or anger, or what have you. the fact is i don't think my push matches up with python's reaction, which i think is unnatural
also another element to it is python also leaning into trying to look unbothered by my read on them? which i would think if town and having a naturally defensive reaction would not feel the need to do
This is the vibe I was referencing, Light. But as I said, it could be some character growth. Not wanting to get into it with other players over silly things is a Good Thing regardless of alignment.
In post 230, light_ganski wrote:Whoever it was that said gob+black, I don't think I see them as scum together
I do.
The interactions between Dannflor, Black, and gob scream distancing with intentions to fake organic interactions, yet falling flat. Given Black and Dannflor are both deepwolf players, if they decide distancing isn’t enough, gob's the most expendable.
It’s still possible gob's just town being used, but Dannflor and Black are locks for scum.
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Post #256 (isolation #20) » Fri Jan 26, 2024 8:53 am
Postby T-Bone »
It was a question to the rest of you. Whether you think they were or not. Indirectly I think Dann answered and I had a related conversation with Light about it. Like, I think it was clear what I was doing when I offered a hero solve for 5 payments of 99.99. It's worth contrasting why Python was so hostile to the idea. I don't like to argue with people about their own behavior, that's not productive. I like to ask the rest of the players about people's behavior.
There’s less than 11 pages, of which the three players in question combined make up less than 3 pages. Since not every post they make relates to each other, it’s even easier to narrow down.
I’m mobile rn, try a triple iso of the players and see if you can see what I did. When not mobile, I can save you the work, yet all I’ll be doing is linking the posts in question. You already have my analysis of them; there’s nothing extra to give.
In post 256, T-Bone wrote:
It was a question to the rest of you. Whether you think they were or not. Indirectly I think Dann answered and I had a related conversation with Light about it. Like, I think it was clear what I was doing when I offered a hero solve for 5 payments of 99.99. It's worth contrasting why Python was so hostile to the idea. I don't like to argue with people about their own behavior, that's not productive. I like to ask the rest of the players about people's behavior.
I mean, it very much does not come across as a neutral question. "Why is Python so rattled, is a question I will pose to the audience." is almost like, the definition of a leading question actually. If Python is rattled, that obviously implies they are scum I think. Saying they are hostile to the idea is also something that, if true, I don't understand the town motivation you think is there. Personally, I just see it as a simple response that they don't want your hero solve because it was completely wrong last time, but if you think they're hostile to it or rattled, why not push it? i don't understand your approach here.
I'm either going to get a response of people agreeing with me or pushing back on me so I don't think the wording of the question or being neutral matters all that much in this instance. If someone thinks strongly that Python isn't rattled they might quote me and call me out on it.
I'm not sure if you're questioning my town motivation or Python's so I'll answer for me. Because this is how I play, I want people to react to things I say. One of the ways I do that is point something out and ask if anyone else is seeing it? You can ask the meta folk if that sort of thing appeals to you.
As to why I'm not pushing it you're not reading the thread since I had several posts of discussion about this very thing with Dann and Light. No, I didn't use the word rattle again, but I think I demonstrated how I was choosing to advance that thought process. Question the town motivation of that if you wish. If you're questioning why I didn't vote it's because I didn't feel like it.
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Post #329 (isolation #33) » Fri Jan 26, 2024 10:05 am
Postby T-Bone »
In post 317, gob wrote:
I’m wondering what Tbone thinks of Python and vice versa
You clearly did not read their hero solve.
As for what I think, I don't know. Nothing Python has said or done has really surprised me outside of Python not getting super defensive over silly stuff. That's different for sure, but not anything I have pinned down. Gut wants me to say town so we'll see.
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Post #335 (isolation #35) » Fri Jan 26, 2024 10:14 am
Postby T-Bone »
Gob is very clearly trying to advance the game state so I don't think a low hanging label can apply here. If you think what he are doing is scummy that's one thing, but he's not doing nothing.
I feel like Dannflors analysis said it wel enough. For me i have sorta ruled out a lot of others, but python consistently does moves that i feel are anti-town.
i dont feel as strongly on anyone, except maybe T-bone as their is a contrast in how T-bone was talking about the V/LA stuff and how T-bone talked about everything else. Feels like scum
I have a few minutes, but are you really taking T-Bone going a bit into list mod mode and commenting on the v/la stuff.......as a scum tell?
Python, scale of 1-10, how high is this on the Drew Post Meter(or DPM for short)?
Well, not even listmod mode. Questioning v/la has always been a pet peeve of mine.
But also I was pretty snarky about Black so was that post really different from the rest of my snark? Am I losing my edge? Who do I need to call a coward to get it back?
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Post #612 (isolation #44) » Sun Jan 28, 2024 9:15 am
Postby T-Bone »
In post 609, Dannflor wrote:
The main thing about Ausuka that has me uneasy is the fact that she isn't really involved in the game? I might be able to attribute that to it being a blitz game and Ausuka being unable to adjust. At the same time I'm worried Ausuka is hiding behind not being able to get into a blitz game to justify why she feels so spectatory.
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Post #615 (isolation #45) » Sun Jan 28, 2024 9:20 am
Postby T-Bone »
In post 613, light_ganski wrote:
Yh I gave t-bone's ISO another skim earlier bcos I'd been thinking he hadn't been that active and when I realised he'd made over 40 posts I wondered why he was under my radar. But I don't see it
I'm just constantly beyond the 12 hour prod range.
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Post #618 (isolation #46) » Sun Jan 28, 2024 9:27 am
Postby T-Bone »
In post 537, Ausuka wrote:
I think T-bone is probably still the scummiest player in the game. I hope this was clear from what I said earlier but - I think his thought process in the early interaction with python doesn't make sense. I don't really believe he asks "Why is python so rattled?" as a neutral question, or that such a thing is natural to do. When I asked about it, he said that it could get responses anyway, which is like true to an extent, but 1) you're going to get more responses if you don't make it look like a rhetorical question and 2) I just don't see the thought process that leads to T-bone not thinking python is scummy and asking that. His play feels overly cautious and unnatural to me. This hasn't changed over time; his posts in general don't really feel interested in finding other people's alignments.
I'll be honest, this is the fakest thing to ever fake. Is there a less charged synonym for bad faith? Because Ausuka was like that for this interaction she is referencing. She asked me to explain both my python read and why I asked a certain question, and I answered earnestly. She never responds to that, but later puts on a naked vote after I have a fun PT slip with Dann over Python's hero solve. Ausuka doesn't actually seem interested in my thoughts which is why she uses vague terms like unnatural to describe how she feels about me. Ausuka is interested in a mislim for sure.
Take a look. I believe I grabbed the relevant quotes but if I missed something let me know.
In post 256, T-Bone wrote:
It was a question to the rest of you. Whether you think they were or not. Indirectly I think Dann answered and I had a related conversation with Light about it. Like, I think it was clear what I was doing when I offered a hero solve for 5 payments of 99.99. It's worth contrasting why Python was so hostile to the idea. I don't like to argue with people about their own behavior, that's not productive. I like to ask the rest of the players about people's behavior.
I mean, it very much does not come across as a neutral question. "Why is Python so rattled, is a question I will pose to the audience." is almost like, the definition of a leading question actually. If Python is rattled, that obviously implies they are scum I think. Saying they are hostile to the idea is also something that, if true, I don't understand the town motivation you think is there. Personally, I just see it as a simple response that they don't want your hero solve because it was completely wrong last time, but if you think they're hostile to it or rattled, why not push it? i don't understand your approach here.
I'm either going to get a response of people agreeing with me or pushing back on me so I don't think the wording of the question or being neutral matters all that much in this instance. If someone thinks strongly that Python isn't rattled they might quote me and call me out on it.
I'm not sure if you're questioning my town motivation or Python's so I'll answer for me. Because this is how I play, I want people to react to things I say. One of the ways I do that is point something out and ask if anyone else is seeing it? You can ask the meta folk if that sort of thing appeals to you.
As to why I'm not pushing it you're not reading the thread since I had several posts of discussion about this very thing with Dann and Light. No, I didn't use the word rattle again, but I think I demonstrated how I was choosing to advance that thought process. Question the town motivation of that if you wish. If you're questioning why I didn't vote it's because I didn't feel like it.
Sorry, this is all Ausuka can manage to say? If you think she's trying to sort me, go look at all this again. Because the next time we hear from Ausuka about this read is to start my flash wagon lol which is the post I quote at the start of this. There's nothing between the naked vote in 300 and her great explanation of this read 537 to justify this new wagon. If the way I treated Python was so unnatural, shouldn't I be pushed on that? Asked to explain my contradictions or whatever?
In post 609, Dannflor wrote:
The main thing about Ausuka that has me uneasy is the fact that she isn't really involved in the game? I might be able to attribute that to it being a blitz game and Ausuka being unable to adjust. At the same time I'm worried Ausuka is hiding behind not being able to get into a blitz game to justify why she feels so spectatory.
Welcome to Ausuka is scum.
To expand upon this I had to go get the receipts in my post above. Looking through Ausuka's ISO it really is just that one time she asked me to elaborate on my Python stance huh?
In post 596, Ranger wrote:
My read on T-Bone is he's a competent enough scum player to fake caring about finding scum and him focusing on finding an elimination for today would be the easiest thing in the world for him to fake.
actually sorry i can't help myself this read is so bad
t-bone is very clearly trying to look like he cares about finding scum and focusing on the elimination
see: his posts about python and his posts about ausuka
however for a variety of reasons i see these movements as fake
Actually tell me about this more. What posts about ausuka were you so confidentially referencing?
In post 596, Ranger wrote:
My read on T-Bone is he's a competent enough scum player to fake caring about finding scum and him focusing on finding an elimination for today would be the easiest thing in the world for him to fake.
actually sorry i can't help myself this read is so bad
t-bone is very clearly trying to look like he cares about finding scum and focusing on the elimination
see: his posts about python and his posts about ausuka
however for a variety of reasons i see these movements as fake
Actually tell me about this more. What posts about ausuka were you so confidentially referencing?
Since you know my game so well of course to imply I have tunneled on one slot. I want to make sure we're on the same page about my reads and my game here.
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Post #634 (isolation #51) » Sun Jan 28, 2024 10:04 am
Postby T-Bone »
In post 629, Dannflor wrote:
the tone wasn't accusatory im just trying to make a decision about who to vote and knowing your views on other people in this game would be helpful
Okay who do you want? I've expressed a few and they haven't changed. I'm fine townbinning light and python. I want to townbin Ranger but I have this pocket fear that because I agree with everything Ranger says she's actually scum. Not something I want to deal with on Day 1 but that's there.
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Post #637 (isolation #52) » Sun Jan 28, 2024 10:20 am
Postby T-Bone »
Sorry, I just chastised you for being imprecise with your language and I need to take care and not do the same.
More that I see Ranger's thought processes and find myself thinking this is coming from town trying to figure things out. I don't agree with all her reads, but I see how she is approaching the game and I like it. I like that when I asked her to provide receipts for her solve she did so. I like her explanation on what she sees from Naerys and Python. While we don't agree on the Ausuka-slot alignment, I think 582 (I'll quote it in another post if need be) voices my feelings on that slot better than even I did (because I'm admittedly self-centered in my play because it's how I can conceptualize the game).
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Post #753 (isolation #60) » Sun Jan 28, 2024 4:46 pm
Postby T-Bone »
Okay going to drop a list of where my head is at.
Town Lean
-Light
-Ranger
Null Lean
-Python
-Gob
Null
-Cook
-Naerys
-STD
-Drew
Scum Lean
-Black
-Dann
-Dave
Scumlike
-JV
Just a quick run down, I feel the best about Light and Ranger (my misgivings about agreeing with Ranger's approach aside), their progression, and their efforts to sincerely try to solve the game. Python and Gob exist in a space where I can see them as town but that's it. The Nulls just haven't left much of an impression on me. I think I'm a bit of a coward on STD by not committing him up or down but what can you do?
The scum leans are more leans than they are reads. I haven't expressed them in the thread. It's some combination of gut feeling and process of elimination. While JV is my mason buddy now I suspect this game is bastard and their slot could still be scum.
I'm not really confident anywhere and would compromise on anyone after Ranger.