Open 717: C9++ [GAME OVER:TOWN WINS]

[Gamma Emerald]

Also, I’ll fight you para. When and where?
-Kor

--

[Redacted]

at

[Redacted].

TGP best mod 2018 fite me irl

-- Thank you! Would you be so kind as to nominate me for a scummies award?

[Gamma Emerald]

Achoo

Bless you

Thanks!
If this continues for another week, I might need a doc though..

-- I can give you a doctor. Fees will be $100,000,000,000,000,000.

will do

-- I accept cash only. You sure?

[Gamma Emerald]

But I’m town aligned cult!

I think this is the first post tgp didn't edit
inb4 it's edited after I say this

-- Is the editing too much? I can tone it down if it's just annoying.

[Gamma Emerald]

@mod: Are both halves of the hydra confirmed? Or can we lynch the Korina half and leave the other one?

@mod: Is the hydra only innocent child for Day 1? Can she be recruited by the cult after that?

-- I'm going to treat these as serious.
Yes, both halves of the hydra are confirmed. A hydra encompasses one player slot.
This game is confirmed as not being bastard and thus having no alignment-changing roles. I should think that was obvious.

Hi I finally get to play with you again

[Gamma Emerald]

Votecount 1.1 #Pregame

Not Voting (13): Gamma Emerald(0), Hoopla(1), Judge Joseph Dredd(1), Sesq(0), UglyDuck(0), Pinturicchio(3), LaserGuy(2), Frederick A Campbell(0), UnaBombaH(4), Generic Hydra(31), Myloninja13(1), Kop(3), Ok Nyeo(9)

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2018-03-29 18:25:00)

MOD NOTES

Fredrick A Campbell is having alt activation problems.

FLAVOR

That pregame was pretty interesting. Kinda reminds me of my first game modding irl. Oh, what a mess that was...

>Frederick A Campbell
>alt activation problems
serves him f*cking right

[Gamma Emerald]

thread title: Open 717: C9++ [Day 1]

[Gamma Emerald]

tfw the mod edits my swear

-- I generally dislike swearing, so I asterisk it. I will not issue any sort of punishments for swearing. Also, I'm having fun abusing edit powers.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't remember games being like this.

My intuition says to ignore it all and make votes instead.

VOTE: gamma emerald

-- Well, I'm a newbie mod and we have the most wacko IC ever :^)

This is...a thing. I can definitely tell this game is going to be an experience. Would you like to explain your vote in the meantime?

[Gamma Emerald]

Would you like to explain your vote in the meantime?

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

-- So what does a journey of

two

thousand miles begin with?

And yet you choose to step on my toes.

[Gamma Emerald]

This game...

VOTE: GammaEmerald because he's not a Gyarados anymore!

-- Am I going to beat Virtuoso at being the #1 troll mod by the end of this game?

OH GOD THAT WASN'T EVEN MY LAST AVATAR
And I don't think I can go back easily, I lost the file I saved that picture in. I could search it up but idrc to

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: myloninja

He did not talk since his first post. He may be scum trying to not get many attention.

My post faded away in that spam.
Can we vote myloninja please?

Maybe? Has he been inactive sitewide?

[Gamma Emerald]

Lynch Nyeo. They've slipped. There's no way that

wasn't

a slip.
-Kor

no? it's just the odds

[Gamma Emerald]

Can you point out the post where I scumslipped?

-- *thinking*

um...............
mod might be going a bit fat with this one

-- I guess. It was ironic because the point had been posted multiple times by generic.

[Gamma Emerald]

far not fat!

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma,
Do you have any reads at this point? I need somebody else with actual content to talk to

-- Why don't you talk to me?

JJD and Hoopla townreads for initiative

[Gamma Emerald]

Hey, sorry, homework and going out got in the way.

Generic Hydra lol. This is going to be fun.

For now I'll VOTE: Judge Joseph Dredd because I'm not sure how a masons claim would help town in really any way aside from eliminating a few smaller options in the set-up.

VOTE: myloninja
this is scum taking the high road

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma
Please explain how Mylo is scummier than Nyeo literally saying that “trying to lynch us” will be useless because wemre gonna get NK’d.

-Kor to all recent unsigned posts

because that's not a scumslip, it's commenting on the fact you're already very likely to get NKed by your role so he's not going to think about lynching you for being erratic anymore

[Gamma Emerald]

Para also may have mod-slipped just now.
-Kor

I had that thought as well but I'm not sure if it's mod-slipping Nyeo as town or scum

-- That narrows it down, doesn't it?

[Gamma Emerald]

btw the votescrubber isn't working right for me

[Gamma Emerald]

you sound the same so i treat you the same

if it means a better response im all for it though

I think sesq is town for their previous post

[Gamma Emerald]

I’ve made up my mind. Carson (n33dl3), you have fun with the game. I’m literally only gonna lurk. It’s clear I’m not wanted, so I’ll let Carson actually do the game and I’ll just watch.
If you need me, don’t.
-Kor

And what makes you think I wasn’t tilting Carson?

I think you really just need to cool off and come back with a level head. I don't dislike you but I don't want you to throw the game off-kilter somehow.

[Gamma Emerald]

btw the votescrubber isn't working right for me

-- It works fine for me, are you sure you're entering the correct information?

I tried again and it worked, idk what happened

-- That's good, probably just a temporary error with the tool.

[Gamma Emerald]

Hi Frederick. You still owe me one for the Stack the Deck game I replaced you in. Don't you dare claim unless there's good reason to.

[Gamma Emerald]

Hey, sorry, homework and going out got in the way.

Generic Hydra lol. This is going to be fun.

For now I'll VOTE: Judge Joseph Dredd because I'm not sure how a masons claim would help town in really any way aside from eliminating a few smaller options in the set-up.

VOTE: Myloninja13

Are you seriously scum reading him for that?!

No, I'm just a bit suspicious of him because of that. A vote doesn't equal a scum reading.

So it was mid-RVS?

[Gamma Emerald]

you sound the same so i treat you the same

if it means a better response im all for it though

I think sesq is town for their previous post

I'm struggling to have a read on anyone. Care to tell me how you reached that conclusion?

Mostly tone I guess
Nice to see you playing seriously btw

[Gamma Emerald]

This game is a wreck. How are we even supposed to continue from here.

me no like this post, kinda WahMISTy (I just made that up, means "wah man I'm so town")

[Gamma Emerald]

Sorry, been busy with work and been no where near a computer. Hate doing this from a phone. Reading back.

Hey, sorry, homework and going out got in the way.

Generic Hydra lol. This is going to be fun.

For now I'll VOTE: Judge Joseph Dredd because I'm not sure how a masons claim would help town in really any way aside from eliminating a few smaller options in the set-up.

VOTE: Myloninja13

Are you seriously scum reading him for that?!

Are you seriously just gonna say that about the game after saying you would read the thread? You jump on a wagon with some momentum in it just because he has a bad scumread? Having bad reads is NAI; jumping on a shit wagon while not giving any content isn't.
VOTE: Kop

Thinking Pin has a good point here
VOTE: Kop

[Gamma Emerald]

Because the test looks for players who want me to replace out. Me being confirmed town actually plays to my favor in it, making it not a gambit. Otherwise, this reaction test is a gambit.

Since my thing apparently got delete (the results), here's the TL;DR
Laser - Town
Hoopla - Townish
Sesq - Scummy
Una - Idfk, it can go both ways
Gamma - Like Una, it can go both ways
Nyeo - Scum
Everyone else + Pin - No Result

I find Nyeo scummy because of the results of said test. Why would town want to keep around a player acting anti-town? They wouldn't. Scum would however, because it gives them a smokescreen basically. Honestly, I forgot who said it, (I think it was Gamma) but they'd lynch the anti-town mayor. The same exact thing applies here.

I'm willing to bet you're scum here as well Duck.
-Kor

I did not say I would lynch the anti-town mayor, at least I don't remember that

[Gamma Emerald]

Hey, sorry, homework and going out got in the way.

Generic Hydra lol. This is going to be fun.

For now I'll VOTE: Judge Joseph Dredd because I'm not sure how a masons claim would help town in really any way aside from eliminating a few smaller options in the set-up.

VOTE: Myloninja13

Are you seriously scum reading him for that?!

No, I'm just a bit suspicious of him because of that. A vote doesn't equal a scum reading.

what does a vote equal then? a town read?

A vote can mean many things, maybe they scumread that player, maybe they want to sort the player and get reactions etc.

But saying "what does a vote equal then? a town read?" makes it look like you are trying to misrepresent the player for saying a vote isnt scumread.

VOTE: uglyduck

And I don't like how you did that.

I missed 266 but yeah UD is being pretty obtuse needlessly

[Gamma Emerald]

Those games are top secret, you know, spy stuff.
By the way, what are your reads? Do you have any other reads than me?

@Gamma Emerald, what is your read on Kop? Do you think he usually plays like this?

I think he's kinda playing like scum him plus after Pin pointed out how Kop's post I noticed how much I felt the surprise felt faked, so yeah I'm scumreading Kop

[Gamma Emerald]

No actually, I’m not. I did my reaction test, I got my results.
Honestly rn, Nyeo is an info lynch for me.
It confirms (at least for me), you and Duck as possible partners, and it helps me figure out people’s alignments.
Please explain why you think Gamma and Nyeo are town before I assume you’re their scumbuddies.
-Kor

Wait you're scumreading me now? I'd ask you what changed but it doesn't really matter because you're IC and don't have to justify yourself, I just feel blindsided.

[Gamma Emerald]

Those games are top secret, you know, spy stuff.
By the way, what are your reads? Do you have any other reads than me?

@Gamma Emerald, what is your read on Kop? Do you think he usually plays like this?

I think he's kinda playing like scum him plus after Pin pointed out how Kop's post I noticed how much I felt the surprise felt faked, so yeah I'm scumreading Kop

And you came to this false conclusion after one post, and the game only being 2 or 3 days old?

Yeah, I came to this """flase""" conclusion after one post, what's wrong with reading someone off of one post? Also I love the automatic accusation of lying, really helps sell the idea that you're town /s

[Gamma Emerald]

Now, ol' Hoopla was never a big D1 gamesolver -- when I was recording stats back in the day, D1 lynchrates were worse than random at one point, which is why I've always been in favour of policy lynching or utility lynching on D1. There's nobody that really qualifies for policy lynching (yet) as we unfortunately can't lynch the Innocent Babby, and it's too early to lynch all lurkers.

Frankly, I don't trust my read of the gamestate before flips, especially when I'm in the dark re: current meta, so I'm going to make a wild declaration here and say I'm just going to sheep whoever sounds like they know what they're talking about.

Gamma, have you played with Kop much? Are you a beacon of wisdom that I should be bowing to? (be honest)

I can't soulread them but I feel like I should be able to tell Kop!town vs Kop!scum given an extensive meta of times where I was both partners with him and scum where he was town. I feel like this is more like scum!him than town!him. In addition in general his responses haven't given me much to like. Hopping on Myloninja wasn't very impressive, and his instant accusation of lying towards me seems a bit too on-edge for town.

[Gamma Emerald]

Doesn't SK have option of one shot bulletproof

[Gamma Emerald]

I can't soulread them but I feel like I should be able to tell Kop!town vs Kop!scum given an extensive meta of times where I was both partners with him and scum where he was town. I feel like this is more like scum!him than town!him. In addition in general his responses haven't given me much to like. Hopping on Myloninja wasn't very impressive, and his instant accusation of lying towards me seems a bit too on-edge for town.

Good2know

Why was I wagoning you in the first place? You clearly have some value if you're town.

It was mostly a content generating vote I feel.

[Gamma Emerald]

So, who wants to have a chat about this claim with me? I feel like my opinions about these sort of situations are controversial.

For the most part, towns are pretty ruthless when it comes to following through on lynching D1 VT claims. The problem is, most scum are aware of this idiosyncrasy and tend to favour claiming PR's, which creates the ugly D1 metagame of having PR-claims being disproportionately scum-heavy and VT-claims disproportionately town-heavy. Ultimately, if you want to have the best chance of lynching scum D1, you generally need to take a risk in lynching a PR. Most towns are adverse to this concept, and tend to play it safe and lynch the VT and keep the PR pool hidden -- this is a valid strategy as PR's can win you the game, but you're

almost always

lynching town D1 because of it.

When I used to keep track of Mini Normal stats, I used to record things like VT claims on D1 to check how often town/scum claimed that role respectively. IIRC, scum claimed VT 5 times compared to about ~50 truthful VT claims. In analysing the handful of times that scum claimed VT, it was generally done by newbish scum who didn't really seem to get site meta of claiming a PR to try and survive deeper into the game. Granted, I haven't updated any of these stats for more than 18 months, but I doubt the metagame has shifted significantly.

This is where I'll get Gamma to weigh in. Do you think Kop is a switched on enough player to realise that claiming VT as scum in this situation is suboptimal? Would you expect a PR claim from him in this spot as scum?

Also, unvoting while I do my some research.

UNVOTE:

First off this actually has woken me up as to why Normals are so PR-heavy these days. Don't want to get into this now but I'll definitely bring it up in Mafia Discussion when this game is over.
As for Kop being a scum who would claim PR I think I remember him doing it once but I'll have to dive for that, but what interests me more is the setup. I feel like this setup makes fakeclaiming PR a bit more of a gamble. Take my last experience with the setup. I replaced into a scum rb slot, ended up playing really scummy, and claimed one shot rb not realizing that wasn't the 1-roll role for blockers. As such scum need to be more mindful of their claim. I might check the timing but for now I think Kop claimed pretty quickly.

[Gamma Emerald]

So it looks like it was a prompt response but there's also the fact that he seems to have already left. I think he might be on the first level here (claiming VT because it's the basic option).

[Gamma Emerald]

Actually I think I was misremembering something (don't know what though), and I actually found reason to believe he's more inclined to claim VT than PR as scum. In Roleblocker6, Micro 718, we were both scum and discussed claiming strategies in pregame, and he told me he didn't see the point in claiming anything besides VT. So that should speak to the type of scum he is.
Bit upset with myself for misremembering but I at least found a nugget of info from my mistake.

[Gamma Emerald]

Also, Hoopla is Town.

Can you explain your TR on hoopla?

hoopla's tone is extremely townie. This specific discussion regarding the VT claim I also feel is very unlikely to come from scum. Scum has little to gain by attempting to push the lynch off of a true VT. OTOH, there is very little to be gained from scum!hoopla trying to save a buddy at L-1 in this manner. If the lynch goes through anyway or if Kop flips scum later, then he'll be under a lot of suspicion.

UNVOTE: Kop

I think hoopla is town regardless of Kop alignment
Not a fan of you switching tune on how you're reading him

[Gamma Emerald]

wat

[Gamma Emerald]

WHAT THE F*CK
BASTARD MOD

-- I am not a bastard mod. That is obvious.

[Gamma Emerald]

Hoopla tell me why I shouldn't lynch you for trying to fake the mod messing with your posts

[Gamma Emerald]

Hoopla tell me why I shouldn't lynch you for trying to fake the mod messing with your posts

Seemed obvious my hilarious jokes were hilarious based on my hilarious jokester nature. But then I remembered nobody knows me in this game.

I will promptly return to serious Hoopla. Ahem.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Sesq

Ah. I'm terrible at recognizing jokes, and even worse when online

[Gamma Emerald]

Why is Sesq being wagoned again
like I believe Sesq is serious lynchbait

[Gamma Emerald]

Past games

[Gamma Emerald]

Why did we quicklynch Sesq? 100% scum was on that wagon.

[Gamma Emerald]

My spidey sense tells me Kop and JJD have a decent chance of being scum together
VOTE: Judge Joseph Dredd
I'm willing to sheep this

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma, why did you not vote JJD on your first vote, but after the wagon started you voted for him? Looks like you wanted to be a "secondary character" on the next lynch. Also, "100% scum was on that wagon" when you weren't on that wagon is putting yourself in a really nice position, huh?

I'd already asserted that Sesq would be a mislynch Day 1. As for why I didn't vote until there was a wagon I had an idea but not anything beyond that when I made that first post. Them pointing out the flaws in the vote made me feel like he was it.

[Gamma Emerald]

By the way if you don't want someone to be lynched don't put them at l-1. It's that simple. We're not going to put everyone to l-1 and get a claim the move on until all PRs are outed. I said to lynch the first vt claim but nobody listened. Then you put Sesq to l-1 an wanted a claim. She would have claimed vt. So? Would you have lynched her? That would be hypocritical because you didn't lynch Kop for the same claim. Would you have let her go and wagoned someone else? How many wagons did you guys need to help scum find the PRs? If anyone really did understand why I called for the masons to claim they should have understood why I didn't like wagoning people to l-1 and getting them to claim then moving on.

And yes, of course there was scum on both Kop and Sesq's wagon, That's what scum do. They push wagons to get claims and shoot the PRs.

Why are you so certain Kop is town? Also nice job shaming the fucking IC. You've made me even happier with where my vote is.

[Gamma Emerald]

Anyone with a brain would know scum will always claim vt on D1, btw. It doesn't matter that I town read Kop. It's a given that scum not yet being able to analyze the setup to any degree of certainty will have to go for the safest claim on D1.

After you guys refused to lynch Kop, any sane PR should have also claimed vt if run to l-1. So we would have ended up with a bunch of vt claims or we would have ended up with a not-so-sharp PR claiming and getting night killed.

Today we have wagons to analyze though. It is 100% that there was scum on the Sesq wagon, It's also 95% that there was scum on Kop regardless of his alignment, and it's 100% there is scum on my wagon as we speak. The problem is 3 out of the 4 voting me were on Sesq, and also 3 were on the Kop wagon. 2 were on both wagons and are currently on mine. These are Fredrick A Campbell and Hoopla.

I say we lynch the former as he lead the wagon on Kop and is leading the wagon on me. That's the most likely mafioso playing spearhead for his team (also most likely to flip the goon for this very reason)

VOTE: Fredrick A Campbell

You're wrong that scum will claim VT at L-1, I'm an example to the contrary on multiple occasions. btw loving that you're saying scum was on Sesq after you said the first and next to last voters were town, like how about you look at everyone rather than go head-first into a lynch? In addition I don't think you have to be goon/gf to spearhead, you just have to be a confident scum.

[Gamma Emerald]

Being the IC doesn't make them a better player. The Korina head is well known to self-hammer at l-1 regardless of alignment and have done it more than once as town, which makes it even worse play fro them indeed to put someone else at l-1 if they didn't want them lynched.

Yeah shut up you've already blamed the IC no amount of defense will exempt you from my scrutiny on that

[Gamma Emerald]

let me ask you all a hypothetical question. If you were a cop in this game who would you have checked tonight? I of course don't want you to answer in thread but only to yourself in your mind, If the answer is JJD for that hammer then are limiting yourself to me being a Godfather, an investigation immune SK, or a townie. Said another way the chances of me being scum have dropped down by 50% for that hammer and it has nothing to do with being too scummy to be scum bs but more to do with the fact that I simply cannot be a goon or RB knowing there might be a cop in the game and draw attention to myself like that.

Now comes the tricky part. Would a lone scum play this way? I myself would say not a chance but you're not me so you're entitled to have your own view. Those who agree I can't be the SK though are now at 25% chance of me being scum compared to the initial chance at the start of the game.

Stay with me please as this is going to get interesting. A Godfather is supposed to be immune to investigations. That's the whole advantage of them being a Godfather. So they go on and stick their neck this far that if they don't get lynched they'd be vigged or killed by the SK?

If you have any real logic you would deduce there is literally no chance of me being scum here, and precisely for that hammer. On any other setup it might be something for scum to get away with, but not in this setup.

You may think there is no vig in the game and probably no SK either because we only had one NK. But did I know that yesterday when I placed the hammer?

Food for thought

yawn
I don't care for this defense, scum could hammer without those roles if they were confident they could get away with it, plus cop isn't supposed to investigate likely lynches at least imho

[Gamma Emerald]

Vig and SK shots could have been blocked, you know...

Why is this relevant?

[Gamma Emerald]

let me ask you all a hypothetical question. If you were a cop in this game who would you have checked tonight? I of course don't want you to answer in thread but only to yourself in your mind, If the answer is JJD for that hammer then are limiting yourself to me being a Godfather, an investigation immune SK, or a townie. Said another way the chances of me being scum have dropped down by 50% for that hammer and it has nothing to do with being too scummy to be scum bs but more to do with the fact that I simply cannot be a goon or RB knowing there might be a cop in the game and draw attention to myself like that.

You'd literally be the worst possible Cop investigation as you're probably going to be the lynch today or vigged last night. A cop should never waste an investigation on such a player.

The optimal choices as Cop is to pick someone that isn't too townie/scummy and doesn't look like being the lynch or NK any time soon -- as this way if you get an innocent result, you don't have to out yourself to protect them D2 and you don't run the risk of your target being NK'ed.

Da da da daaaa Hoopla knows proper cop play

[Gamma Emerald]

UNVOTE:
I'm not sure why JJD said to blame them for a ML if they were cop, but I'm going to unvote for now

[Gamma Emerald]

Are you guys serious? A fakeclaim being on L-2? If he's fakeclaiming he's dead on D3, let me believe he's not that stupid

That's part of why I feel like it could be fake, it was claimed under pressure, in addition to his play not exactly being what I'd expect from a cop.

[Gamma Emerald]

Does a cc even matter if it's not the person guiltied? Can't there be two cops?

[Gamma Emerald]

JJD you haven't responded to my doubts on you

[Gamma Emerald]

Why did you say you'd take responsibility for the lynch?

[Gamma Emerald]

Why did you say you'd take responsibility for the lynch?

Why do you ask? (silly question in response to a silly question)

Kinda feels a bit odd to do that as a cop.

[Gamma Emerald]

So, upon further thought, this is a pretty easy choice...

JDD claims to cop Fred and get a Skum result.

In world where we lynch JDD - either we get:
1) Skum!JDD - OK cool we get skum. Skum probably kills the newly made IC (Fred)
2) Town!JDD - We lynch a Town cop and then lynch JDD on D3.

In a world where we lynch Fred - either we get:
1) Skum!Fred - Ok cool we get Skum probably kills claimed Town Cop at night (JDD)
2) Town!Fred - We lynch a Townie and then lynch JDD on D3.

So we are left with the pros vs cons of the order of events.

We lynch JDD first:
Skum!JDD - Yay good job us. Skum kills Fred most likely.
Town!JDD - We go to night, Skum gets a NK, we lynch Fred the next day.

Skum!Fred - Yay, good job us. Skum kills JDD most likely.
Town!Fred - We go to night, Skum kills JDD.


All of this put together leaves us at the "same point" going into Night 3 - Both of them are dead, either by NK or lynch, and we have eliminated 1 Skum.
However, there is only one scenario in which we force Skum to kill a potential Town Cop - and that is by lynching Fred first.

1- If we lynch JDD today and he is Skum, then we wake up tomorrow without JDD and Fred. We then go on to Day 3 and play it out with one Skum gone.
2- If we lynch JDD today and he is Town, then we wake up tomorrow without JDD and a random dead Town. We then do Day 3 quickly, and must lynch Fred to get rid of the Skum.
3- If we lynch Fred today and he is Skum, then we wake up tomorrow without JDD and Fred. We then go on to Day 3 and play it out with one Skum gone...but we force Skum to NK JDD.
4- If we lynch Fred today, and he is Town, then we wake up tomorrow without Fred and a random dead Town. We then do Day 3 quickly, and must lynch JDD to get rid of the Skum.

As town, our job is essentially to outlive Skum. Options 1,3, and 4 are clearly the most beneficial for us. However, if we follow Option 1 (lynching JDD) we take care of killing the claimed Town PR for Skum, leaving them to target whomever they please for the NK. If we follow Option 3 (lynching Skum!Fred) then Skum still gets to kill as they please, but they will kill JDD - note that all scenarios end in us lynching JDD or Skum killing JDD, so it doen't matter to us... it just forces Skum to kill a specific player. If we follow Option 4 (lynching Town!Fred) then Skum gets to kill as they please and then we lynch JDD on Day 3.


Following this logic it is a clear choice. We need to lynch Fred today.
If JDD is lying and Skum - then yeah he gets us and Skum gets to pick a freebie target tonight.
But... if JDD is telling the truth and is Town - then we get the same results as we would have at the end of D3 except we force Skum to use a kill on JDD instead of doing it for them by lynching him.

VOTE: Fredrick - Pretty sure that is L-1.

This logic is pretty shoddy but it seems more due to thought not being in order

[Gamma Emerald]

I think I'm actually fine voting Fred now. Any objections other than Nyeo?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Frederick Campbell

[Gamma Emerald]

Don't you think it's a better idea to spend some time finding some scum partners?

Kinda hard to do that when the guilty's outed?

[Gamma Emerald]

Don't you think it's a better idea to spend some time finding some scum partners?

Kinda hard to do that when the guilty's outed?

I don't understand.

Now that a guilty is outed it's pretty much decided that we're either going to lynch it or the claimer. As such no other scum can be caught since they know hey aren't getting lynched.

[Gamma Emerald]

Don't you think it's a better idea to spend some time finding some scum partners?

Kinda hard to do that when the guilty's outed?

I don't understand.

Now that a guilty is outed it's pretty much decided that we're either going to lynch it or the claimer. As such no other scum can be caught since they know hey aren't getting lynched.

You could still threaten to lynch them on Day 4.

So? They're still pretty much set for a day. Keep flailing.

[Gamma Emerald]

@JJD

If you were a cop with a guilty result, then why you didn't claim immediately? It was obvious that we were going to vote you for that hammer.

Real cop please don't out


And also, we can do hypoclaims

This is bad.
Cop with a guilty doesn't need to claim immediately, in fact, a good cop leaves crumbs and finds other avenues to use instead of openly guiltying.

Secondly, I'd argue that while JJD was always gonna get suspected/wagoned for that hammer, he wasn't under immediate threat, and therefore his claim doesn't not make sense.

Thirdly, making hypoclaims is SCUMMY AS HELL HERE.
Hypoclaims with Cops (not same with flavor-cops or trackers etc) don't work with one potential PR already outed.
That is partly because scum KNOW which hypoclaims are definitely false (if someone hypoclaims an inno on one of their teammates for example), and it also muddies the whole situation up in case we later get to situation with ACTUAL cop claims/flips..

One of the scummiest hidden agendas in this post IMO.

I was hoping to snap the trap d3 but yeah I agree Nyeo's posting wrt JJD's claim is some of the scummiest shit in the game if JJD is town

[Gamma Emerald]

Stop making a case on Ok Nyeo, she's obviously the Serial Killer. Let's talk about Fred's partner(s)

How is she obv SK? Look at the way she tries to tie people to Fred's flip, that means she's likely alignment informed and trying to avoid future scum lynches by making terrible associative statements.

[Gamma Emerald]

My spidey sense tells me Kop and JJD have a decent chance of being scum together
VOTE: Judge Joseph Dredd
I'm willing to sheep this

What do you think about Kop now?

He could be scum but he's not suspect number one if you flip scum

[Gamma Emerald]

Why not, game is dead anyways

[Gamma Emerald]

If Fred flips scum and I by some means die tonight lynch Nyeo, Generic was after them and their posting today is 100% scum if my first conditional is true

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: JJD
If you're town don't do this again. We don't need another RadiantCowbells running around.

[Gamma Emerald]

Are you still holding onto your cop claim, even though your n1 result is literally impossible and you haven't given a replacer?

[Gamma Emerald]

Why should I trust you? You've already faked a guilty on someone pushing you.

[Gamma Emerald]

Wait. If pin blocked you why didn't he call you out when you claimed cop with a guilty?

[Gamma Emerald]

Interesting. Everybody left pin to chat with himself. At least that makes him very likely town to me.

This means the wagon was started by town and is put to L-1 by town, so I'm going to save you all the trouble and take the blame for this mislynch (IF it's a mislynch).

VOTE: Sesq

I believe this should end the day.

Only mention of Pin d1. So that was a strong enough townread to not protect the IC? Seems pretty sketchy to me.

[Gamma Emerald]

If JJD is telling the truth it makes perfect sense for him to expect Pin to have blocked him. Mafia know he's not cop so they'd probably expect him to be VT who just fakeclaimed a guilty to lynch their SR. It's a town RB that would block someone who fakeclaimed a guilty.
PEdit: fine then

[Gamma Emerald]

wait which game was that?

[Gamma Emerald]

Where did you play that game again?

[Gamma Emerald]

Guys..

To make something clear: JJD is CORRECT in saying that town should've lynched Kop D1. (Not just because of the would-be end result - I think it was an objectively correct thing to do for town, once he had claimed VT.)
I still think JJDs fakeclaim/-guilty were stupid, but then again, you could always argue that the only thing that matters is the end-result. You guys won, congrats on that.
BUT.

WHAT I DO WANT TO STRESS HOWEVER - AND THIS IS THE PART I MUST'VE SEEMINGLY GOT SALTY ABOUT - IS THAT TOWN GOT VERY LAZY IN THE END.

There was no logic whatsoever in the decisions you guys made in LyLo-situations. And before you get annoyed, please read what I have to say.

Like, no matter what you guys said, there was almost an equal amount of arguments to be made for town!Kop as there were for scum!Ugly. More than for the actual reality.
There was no transparent discussion, no gamesolving in posts quoting or analyzing wagons. You just had this thought stuck in your head that Kop is guaranteed scum.
Secondly, all you guys did that day (in the end), was follow a cops guilty.

A cop who claimed in LyLo.

You got the correct lynch there by trusting him, but realize something:

UGLY ADMITTED TO HAVE FAKED HIS RESULT BEFORE HOOPLA FLIPPED.

Yet you all handled him as a "confirmed" cop the next day,

EVEN THOUGH HE ADMITTED TO NOT HAVING HAD A GUILTY IN THE END.

Like, stop for a moment to chew this.
And there were signs for theoretical scum!Ugly bussing Hoopla D4, simply based on HOW and WHEN he claimed.
I tried to point this out, but none of you even gave it a second thought (it seems).
Furthermore: Ugly didn't even try to counter any of my arguments.
If I were to have been town this game, I actually would've replaced out of this game simply because almost no one listened to reason or interacted openly in LyLo.

THIS WILL LOSE YOU MOST OF YOUR TOWNGAMES IN LYLO-SITUATIONS.

That is because the nature of this game is for scum to create misdirection and try to kill everyone who even TRIES to make sense.
And everytime town arrives into a LyLo, you need to understand that everyone who is still alive at that point, is alive for a reason.
Often it's one of three: They are scum, their reads/gameplay has sucked sufficiently to pose no threat to scum, or they are more easily mislynched.

TLDR:

Very rarely a cop who claims a guilty in a 7 player LyLo, AND CHANGES THEIR RESULT ONCE MORE BEFORE THE FLIP, is actually town and "automatically" wins you guys the game.
If you want it to happen occasionally though, keep playing setups like these.

#majorleaguesalt
dude you lost, hard. You got guiltied, then Ugly was able to find Hoopla out by association only, then instead of lynching the guilty which was already pretty proven by team blocking, town lynched the consensus scumread that was correct and fully nailed you as scum. All that after a f*cking stupid d1 hammer (as I said Sesq was f*cking lynchbait, I know because I have f*cking experience with her) and a dumb as sh*t cop fakeclaim (though given who it is, which I'll keep secret but is funny as f*ck to me, is kinda sensible) that derailed the next few days, and you have a scumteam that given town's performance was pretty bad to have lost.
A note about that shift of the guiltied person at the end: that actually probably helped UglyDuck's longevity. By still having a living guilty, it made killing Ugly a bad idea because it validated the guilty.
But yeah, be careful with LyLo guilties. They can easily be faked.

--

[Gamma Emerald]

also if the game was rerolled I would have probably laughed

[Gamma Emerald]

also I've never lost C9++ and never won JK9++

[Gamma Emerald]

also I've never lost C9++ and never won JK9++

that's because one is townsided and one is scumsided

I've played each as both alignments once though

[Gamma Emerald]

I mean I think the worst part about Duck's claim was the truthful part: him targeting two dead townies.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think my kill sorta made Hoopla obv tbh