Open 714: Tit for Tat [Game Over]

Luca Blight · Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:16 pm

How is it a misrep? Have I cut any of the context out of your quote?

Don't blatantly say something like that and then get annoyed when it's later used against you.

Luca Blight · Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:23 pm

Ironically, I just played a game where the vig ignored who everyone was telling him to shoot and went for his own choice, and hit scum.

Even more ironic - scum neither killed nor roleblocked him when they had the chance - believing he'd go for the designated vig kill.

Luca Blight · Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:34 pm

In post 1377, JaydragonKing wrote:Says the guy who's been getting pissed that Dino quotes him all the time.

Context and inside joke. And this was already discussed earlier. You can find it via my ISO that mutant said I was gamethrowing. Clearly you've ignored Everything I've said before like page 45.

Misquotes me, yes.

Anyway, I certainly didn't deliberately misrep you - you said it in black and white, and I have reason to believe you meant it.

I was just using you as an example, anyway - I'm not actually calling for the vig to shoot you, you were just the most convenient example to use.

Luca Blight · Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:41 pm

I'm currently thinking:

vig Anen, leave Pin alive, lynch either Mutant or jmo.

Luca Blight · Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:54 pm

UNVOTE:

I want to think about this.

Luca Blight · Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:28 am

I'm really feeling one of Math/Anen are scum - if Anen flipped green I'd like Math vigged.

Luca Blight · Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:43 am

In post 1394, Aneninen wrote:
In post 1338, Luca Blight wrote:Jay, Anen is trying to counter wagon Math, not Mutant.
It's also obviously my fault that most players ignored my thoughts about Mathdino.
Also, I've expressed that I'd join the Mutant-wagon anytime.
Luca, you're not scumreading me. You
want
to scumread me. The question is: why.

Err, I wan't making a point in the post you quoted; I was just pointing out something factual.

The more you post the more I scumread you, to be honest.

Luca Blight · Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:45 am

I actually really agree with Anen's point about Math manipulating the vig, which is why I feel one of them is scum.

Luca Blight · Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:50 am

I'm waiting for Anen's reads list he promised, and because I still want time to analyse a bit further.

Luca Blight · Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:54 am

In post 1402, Mathdino wrote:
In post 1400, Luca Blight wrote:I actually really agree with Anen's point about Math manipulating the vig, which is why I feel one of them is scum.
All I wanted was to use the vig as a second lynch.

Do you at least understand why, from my POV and given my experience (largely with players from this game), I would have a little "PTSD" over how MS towns use vigs?

Maybe, but I can also see scum wanting to control the vig in such a way in which to nullify him.

I really don't agree with the policy-shooting thing - I'd rather risk hitting a pr and shoot someone likely to flip scum than someone who is very likely Town just because they claimed VT.

Luca Blight · Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:04 am

Math, you said yourself how vigs like to play the hero - obviously the optimal strategy for scum here is to exactly as you've done - direct the vig into offing an expendable VT.

There is simply no other way to guarantee your safety as scum.

Luca Blight · Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:13 am

Yeah well that's easier said than done, particularly when you have two partners you also want to protect from the vig.

Let's agree to disagree on this.

Luca Blight · Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:43 am

In post 1426, mutantdevle wrote:
In post 1279, Luca Blight wrote:Sheeping isn't acceptable, yet you did it yourself? It's also wrong theory-wise, imo; basically 'sheeping' in this context is 'compromising' - there is no way Town can reach a lynch without this, unless there is a ridiculously obvious lynch candidate. Yeah, I guess people could say a few words about Anen while sheeping, but all you said is he's a bit scummy tonally which doesn't massively put you above the others, imo.
You even pointed out I was hesitant to join the sheeping, so please don't treat me as though I jumped on no questions asked. Besides, I have been scum leaning Anen for a while - that doesn't mean I can't be cautious when a wagon suddenly forms on him with seemingly no case.

Err, but Pin didn't jump on

'no questions asked

' either?

You can't call him scummy for sheeping when you did the same thing yourself.

Luca Blight · Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:47 am

I'd be open to a NSG lynch.

Luca Blight · Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:59 am

It wouldn't have hurt to at least have acknowledged the pretty blatant misrepping you did, Math - that wouldn't have fueled any further argument.

The fact you cut the quotes exactly to fit in with your narrative did look deliberate, though.

Luca Blight · Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:15 am

NSG-Anen sumteam could be possible, given how she wanted to save him based on little, and how she wanted to wagon Pin also based on little.

Luca Blight · Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:18 am

VOTE: NSG

Luca Blight · Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:37 am

This wagon-hopping is becoming comical, but I'm actually feeling this.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Almost50

Luca Blight · Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:44 am

Retaliatory by the same people who wagoned NSG in the first place? Unless you're calling Pin her partner, which is at odds with what occurred earlier.

Luca Blight · Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:50 am

Getting some townie vibes from Jay recently.

Luca Blight · Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:11 am

I believe that's L-1

Luca Blight · Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:27 am

So what was the benefit of self-hammering there? I was actually considering switching back to NSG, but wanted the chance to analyse A50's reactions first.

Saying there is definitely 2/3 scum on his wagon is lazy BS - his wagon wasn't vastly different to Anen's or Pin's, but for the fact he pathetically self-hammered.

Luca Blight · Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:18 am

I guess this is the most relevant vc to analyse.

Note here that all six votes came within half a page of each other (page 45). I guess the most likely bus would either be NSG, not expecting the wagon to pick up such pace, or Jay looking to put it to L-1 before someone else could.

jmo16mla

(2): Creature 1009, Gamma Emerald 1010

Aneninen

(1): pinturricchio 1090

mutantdevle

(1): Aneninen 689

Mathdino

(1): TheGoldenParadox 743

JaydragonKing

(1): jmo16mla 1068

pinturicchio

(6): northsidegal 1101, mutantdevle 1110, Luca Blight 1111, Mathdino 1112, Almost50, Jay

Not Voting: no one

Luca Blight · Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:21 am

Creature didn't vote Pin at all this game.

Luca Blight · Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:29 am

I think it's fair to say most of us didn't expect him to flip red after his reaction - I guess I probably underestimated him a bit due to his join date.

Jay was the one to initally propose not shooting Pin, and kept briniging it up, although obviously I was inclined to agree as I was townreading him at the end.

Pin's comment that he didn't want to vote Anen if it meant risking Jay stood out to me, though. I'm thinking Anen/Jay/NSG is where to look today.

Luca Blight · Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:32 am

NSG's felt a bit like a bus to me just because there was no real reasoning or push behind her Pin vote - it was a bit weird. It could make sense if Anen is the rolecop so she wanted to split the voting up without risking herself in the process.

Luca Blight · Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:38 am

This vote came when Mutant had picked up about four quick votes:

In post 1210, pinturicchio wrote:Guys, relax, is just a game and I get it, I'm not going anywhere. I'm having fun nevertheless; if I weren't, I would've replaced out long ago, after my first readlist. But let's keep things going: I may be dead, but I haven't lost the game as this is a team game, so go on and push another wagon. Just to be clear: I don't think this "push a wagon till getting a claim" is the best strategy at all. Also, I'm following my own reads right now and put my vote on A50, as I'm really tired of his vig softclaims that could justify his lack of content and voting for anyone who's getting pushed without explaining himself. Maybe it's a playstyle thing, but whatever.
VOTE: Almost50

Given how Pin had been scumreading Mutant for a while at this stage, it seems strange not to jump on the wagon here - surely scum getting another claim out of a townie would be beneficial at this point. Of course, if Mutant and Pin are scum and they both claim VT, both are for the chopping block via vig or lynch over the coming days.

Luca Blight · Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:52 am

It could also explain why Mutant was so weirded-out after putting Anen to L-1 immediately after Pin's vote - if he was scum with Pin then I would understand such discomfort on his part.

He said he didn't like Pin's sheeping despite doing the same himself, which is something that never sat well with me.

Luca Blight · Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:00 am

Jay is clearly today's lynch - of that there can be no doubt.

Luca Blight · Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:06 am

VOTE: Jay

Luca Blight · Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:42 pm

Lynch: Jay
Vig: Anen
Jail: jmo

Luca Blight · Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:00 am

Meh, I'm gonna come out and say it.

I'm the back-up rolecop. I don't believe my role has any power now, as even if Jay is the rolecop everyone else will be Vanilla anyway, bar the vig.

That's why I didn't want to be jailed - because it would be a waste clearing me.

Jail someone like jmo who we could do with clearing.

Luca Blight · Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:30 am

I would go along with the above.

Luca Blight · Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:10 am

I can't find what you're referring to, Anen.

Luca Blight · Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:45 am

So obviously there's two scum out of Mutant, Anen, Math and Paradox.

I'm going to be busy pretty much until Tuesday but I'll try and do some analysis here and there.

Luca Blight · Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:10 am

Whoever is scum obviously had a good idea NSG was vig - missing a pr would have basically been game over for scum at this point.

From my perspective it could have been Mutant, jmo or NSG - which I guess lends value to Mutant being one of the scum.

Luca Blight · Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:22 am

Do we feel safe ruling out a Math/Paradox scumteam? I've been paranoid about that for a while, but there were a few interactions which make it seem unlikely.

If we can rule that out then at least one of Mutant/Anen are scum.

Luca Blight · Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:45 am

In post 1210, pinturicchio wrote:Guys, relax, is just a game and I get it, I'm not going anywhere. I'm having fun nevertheless; if I weren't, I would've replaced out long ago, after my first readlist. But let's keep things going: I may be dead, but I haven't lost the game as this is a team game, so go on and push another wagon. Just to be clear: I don't think this "push a wagon till getting a claim" is the best strategy at all. Also, I'm following my own reads right now and put my vote on A50, as I'm really tired of his vig softclaims that could justify his lack of content and voting for anyone who's getting pushed without explaining himself. Maybe it's a playstyle thing, but whatever.
VOTE: Almost50

Pin steering the attention away from the Mutant wagon looks pretty bad on Mutant, particularly given Pin and Mutant were 'scumreading' each other; why would scum-pin want to interrupt another townie getting to L-1 and claiming?

Luca Blight · Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:02 am

In post 1403, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 1400, Luca Blight wrote:I actually really agree with Anen's point about Math manipulating the vig, which is why I feel one of them is scum.
Well then, what are you waiting for. Jump on the wagon again, let's lynch Aneninen and if he flips town, the vig shoots Dino.
If Aneninen flips scum, we follow the first plan and the vig shoots me.

This I guess means Anen is unlikely to be scum?

Luca Blight · Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:14 am

Yeah I think it's Mutant/Paradox. I'll give everyone a chance to post before I vote.

Luca Blight · Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:59 pm

I agree Mutant/Anen are very unlikely to be scum partners.

VOTE: Paradox

Luca Blight · Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:05 am

VOTE: anen

Luca Blight · Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:11 am

So I believe we can force a win here.

We lynch either mutant or math; if they flip town, gamma blocks the other one and we win the following day.

Luca Blight · Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:20 am

Obviously scum can choose to no-kill...

Gamma said he was blocking you and there's no way he would risk losing the game by going against that.

Luca Blight · Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:29 am

It's not tequnically impossible though as town could still fuck up (Gamma could forget to submit his block).

But yeah, if you're scum you might as well admit it now as you have no chance.

Luca Blight · Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:31 am

Technically* stupid phone

Luca Blight · Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:38 am

GG

Unlucky scum and good work Gamma.

Luca Blight · Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:43 am

Yeah I could see the pin/mutant scum team, but the Anen associations were harder to spot.

I was scumreading anen independently the most though, I would say - his reaction to being Waggoned seemed scummy to me.

Luca Blight · Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:47 am

Pin - the master of reverse-psychology.

Luca Blight · Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:51 am

I think I claimed at exactly the right time here - my role was useless and it stopped any chance of scum trying to claim my role later on.

Luca Blight · Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:54 am

A town-win in a game that features Jay must be a collecter's item!

Luca Blight · Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:43 pm

I had the Pin/Mutant team locked:

In post 1578, Luca Blight wrote:This vote came when Mutant had picked up about four quick votes:

In post 1210, pinturicchio wrote:Guys, relax, is just a game and I get it, I'm not going anywhere. I'm having fun nevertheless; if I weren't, I would've replaced out long ago, after my first readlist. But let's keep things going: I may be dead, but I haven't lost the game as this is a team game, so go on and push another wagon. Just to be clear: I don't think this "push a wagon till getting a claim" is the best strategy at all. Also, I'm following my own reads right now and put my vote on A50, as I'm really tired of his vig softclaims that could justify his lack of content and voting for anyone who's getting pushed without explaining himself. Maybe it's a playstyle thing, but whatever.
VOTE: Almost50

Given how Pin had been scumreading Mutant for a while at this stage, it seems strange not to jump on the wagon here - surely scum getting another claim out of a townie would be beneficial at this point. Of course, if Mutant and Pin are scum and they both claim VT, both are for the chopping block via vig or lynch over the coming days.

In post 1579, Luca Blight wrote:It could also explain why Mutant was so weirded-out after putting Anen to L-1 immediately after Pin's vote - if he was scum with Pin then I would understand such discomfort on his part.

He said he didn't like Pin's sheeping despite doing the same himself, which is something that never sat well with me.