Open 714: Tit for Tat [Game Over]
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Luca Blight Survivor
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Mathdino Survivor
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we're in evensIn post 1374, pinturicchio wrote:The problem with your strategy is that you are getting claims just for the sake of it, not because a "universal scumread", because the wagons were shit. If you really dislike vig killing his scumreads, then ask the vig to not kill anyone at all on D1
if vig doesn't kill we're objectively at a disadvantage-
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JaydragonKing Mafia Scum
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pinturicchio Mafia Scum
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"Explain the Newbie" timeIn post 1376, Mathdino wrote:
we're in evensIn post 1374, pinturicchio wrote:The problem with your strategy is that you are getting claims just for the sake of it, not because a "universal scumread", because the wagons were shit. If you really dislike vig killing his scumreads, then ask the vig to not kill anyone at all on D1
if vig doesn't kill we're objectively at a disadvantage-
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Luca Blight Survivor
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Mathdino Survivor
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suppose vig just never kills and we end up at 8pIn post 1378, pinturicchio wrote:
"Explain the Newbie" timeIn post 1376, Mathdino wrote:
we're in evensIn post 1374, pinturicchio wrote:The problem with your strategy is that you are getting claims just for the sake of it, not because a "universal scumread", because the wagons were shit. If you really dislike vig killing his scumreads, then ask the vig to not kill anyone at all on D1
if vig doesn't kill we're objectively at a disadvantage
3 mafia, 5 town
random lynch gives us a 3/8 chance of hitting scum
on the other hand, no-lynch means scum kill a townie, giving us a 3/7 chance of hitting scum, which is slightly greater
when in evens without some method of stopping kills or generating kills, no-lynching is generally the mathematically correct/standard call when there's an even number of players
obviously in this setup we have both the means to stop kills AND generate kills, and both jailkeeper and vig should be working to bring us to odds by doing so
plus if you think about what a vig is
a properly used vig doubles the power of the town by giving us another "lynch"
of course it can also completely fuck over the town because for whatever reason vigs on MS keep fucking shooting power roles
that is why i'm treating it as essentially a second lynch, with claims and everything-
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pinturicchio Mafia Scum
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Mathdino Survivor
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some interesting facts:
NSG's postrate is almost exactly between her average town postrate and scum postrate
the number of questions she's asked per post far FAR exceeds both her town questionrate and scumquestionrate, although her scum questionrate is generally a little higher
basically NSG is playing severely against meta by spending almost every post asking questions rather than making statements
it's not scum indicative but i've realised that's why i can't get a lock on her-
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Luca Blight Survivor
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Misquotes me, yes.In post 1377, JaydragonKing wrote:Says the guy who's been getting pissed that Dino quotes him all the time.
Context and inside joke. And this was already discussed earlier. You can find it via my ISO that mutant said I was gamethrowing. Clearly you've ignored Everything I've said before like page 45.
Anyway, I certainly didn't deliberately misrep you - you said it in black and white, and I have reason to believe you meant it.
I was just using you as an example, anyway - I'm not actually calling for the vig to shoot you, you were just the most convenient example to use.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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not how it works thoughIn post 1381, pinturicchio wrote:But I didn't say vig never killing, I said not killing on D1. Just by speaking your math language, 2 mislynches are more probable on D1 than on D2, including all the info you get with the first lynch and the NK from scum. Vig kills would be better aimed starting at D2
by that logic, lynching on D1 at all is a bad idea because you're more likely to hit scum later on
if town has 2 abilities to remove scum from the game while scum has only 1
town should take as many safe options as they can get-
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pinturicchio Mafia Scum
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Also, from vig perspective, shooting randomly would have a higher chance to hit scum than a PR. There are two rolecops (one of each team) a Jailkeeper and a Goon, so if there's a mislynch today, it would be a 3/11 chance of shooting scum and 2/11 chance of shooting a PR, and I'm talking about a random shoot. If you include the info you get from D1 and the lynch itself, chances would be higher. But I get your point, it's fair, and I agree with itIn post 1381, pinturicchio wrote:But I didn't say vig never killing, I said not killing on D1. Just by speaking your math language, 2 mislynches are more probable on D1 than on D2, including all the info you get with the first lynch and the NK from scum. Vig kills would be better aimed starting at D2-
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pinturicchio Mafia Scum
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Not the same, as here you would get a flip that gives you more info for the next dayIn post 1384, Mathdino wrote:
not how it works thoughIn post 1381, pinturicchio wrote:But I didn't say vig never killing, I said not killing on D1. Just by speaking your math language, 2 mislynches are more probable on D1 than on D2, including all the info you get with the first lynch and the NK from scum. Vig kills would be better aimed starting at D2
by that logic, lynching on D1 at all is a bad idea because you're more likely to hit scum later on
if town has 2 abilities to remove scum from the game while scum has only 1
town should take as many safe options as they can get-
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JaydragonKing Mafia Scum
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pinturicchio Mafia Scum
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Forgot to mention the backup JailkeeperIn post 1385, pinturicchio wrote:
Also, from vig perspective, shooting randomly would have a higher chance to hit scum than a PR. There are two rolecops (one of each team) a Jailkeeper and a Goon, so if there's a mislynch today, it would be a 3/11 chance of shooting scum and 2/11 chance of shooting a PR, and I'm talking about a random shoot. If you include the info you get from D1 and the lynch itself, chances would be higher. But I get your point, it's fair, and I agree with itIn post 1381, pinturicchio wrote:But I didn't say vig never killing, I said not killing on D1. Just by speaking your math language, 2 mislynches are more probable on D1 than on D2, including all the info you get with the first lynch and the NK from scum. Vig kills would be better aimed starting at D2-
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RedFlavor Mafia Scum
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pinturicchio Mafia Scum
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You know what? We should get spicy
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Luca Blight Survivor
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Luca Blight Survivor
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Aneninen HeVery Important PigeonHe
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Just a couple of things.
From 276. Discrediting you and quoting things out of context. It's strange that you don't remember.In post 1301, Gamma Emerald wrote:Where did I actually have a case against you?
1. Where's that "most"? What if there were a small amount of players (including Mathdino) who narrowed the lynch pool to very few names without real reasoning?In post 1302, Luca Blight wrote:1. Well, I've pushed for a Math lynch for most of the day but most think he's Town, so I'm leaving that thought for another day. Other than that you and Mutant are probably the next best options, at the moment.
2. I'm not saying cases are always bad, but you don'tneedto have a case to justify lynching someone, imo - for example, if you wanted to lynch Jay you couldn't ever make much of a case, other than that he posts fluff and irrelevant stuff, which he does as either alignment.
3. No, I never said it's scummy you are annoyed by a PoE scumread - I was talking theoretically.
2. There's ahugedifference between situations where a 1–2 players are sheeping others who have a case against someone and situations where most players have no cases and players are sheeping them. Here, the latter is happening.
3. Okay, let's see ittheoretically, fromyour point of view. You think I'm scum. Please, explain thedifferencesyou would experience from town-Aneninen getting wagoned without a cases on Day1! Also, explain thedifferencesyou'd see fromanyplayer in this situation.
Policy Vig. Yeah. Are you suggesting the Vig not scumhunting?In post 1307, Mathdino wrote:pintu already claimed and he's never getting nightkilled; call it a policy vig but it's kind of a policy vig at this point
Which would be worth more, I guess. (Even if still not scumhunting.)In post 1307, Mathdino wrote:also shooting null VTs is great vigplay idk what you're talking about
Shouldn't we see the flip and let the Vig pick someoneafterwards?
No surprise. He'll be a great mislynch later for you, won't he?In post 1308, Mathdino wrote:and i'm townreading jmo
Are you misrepresenting me intentionally?In post 1313, JaydragonKing wrote:Aneninen promised a readlist "tommorow", aka day 2. I am positive he's scum at this point trying a last second stall.
I pointed outtomorrow, not Tomorrow. I'm obviously scummy because of saying that when it's way past midnight IRL here. (And that tomorrow is today now. Also Today. If you care.)
Luca, Mathdino...In post 1323, Mathdino wrote:the wallposters are in fact anen/mutant/gamma
See above. Same post.In post 1332, Luca Blight wrote:I don't see what makes Anen's frustration Townie.-
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Aneninen HeVery Important PigeonHe
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It's also obviously my fault that most players ignored my thoughts about Mathdino.In post 1338, Luca Blight wrote:Jay, Anen is trying to counter wagon Math, not Mutant.
Also, I've expressed that I'd join the Mutant-wagon anytime.
Luca, you're not scumreading me. Youwantto scumread me. The question is: why.
Alternatively, there's another explanation.In post 1346, Mathdino wrote:the point is this: even if pintu is town, he is going to get mislynched at some point if we leave him alive
this is basically true of anyone that gets run up to L-1 and claims VT
Pintu is VT for real and the scum want the Vig remove him. Then the scum can perform a more valuable Nightkill and they're safe from the Vig-shot too.
Policy Vig-able because he's voting for you or because he's not buying the pigeon poop going on for days?In post 1350, Mathdino wrote:paradox i guess is policyviggable
For your information: later on the same page Mathdino's trying to manipulate the Vig in a way which favours him. I don't think that would make sense from town-him. At this point I seriously consider self-hammering, because at least that would not be two birds with one stone for the scum.-
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TheGoldenParadox heMafia Scumhe
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What if we lynch dino, then if he's town, vig anen, if he's scum, vig mutant or jmo.In post 1391, Luca Blight wrote:I'm currently thinking:
vig Anen, leave Pin alive, lynch either Mutant or jmo.-
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Luca Blight Survivor
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Mathdino Survivor
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While it would be fantastic to formalise vig conditionals, we don't have an easy method of voting for them
Hence the original vig idea-
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Mathdino Survivor
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Also there is no way I'm confident enough in Anen being scum to agree to death after his, or vice versa
Sell me on Anen being scum from my pov-
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Luca Blight Survivor
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Err, I wan't making a point in the post you quoted; I was just pointing out something factual.In post 1394, Aneninen wrote:
It's also obviously my fault that most players ignored my thoughts about Mathdino.In post 1338, Luca Blight wrote:Jay, Anen is trying to counter wagon Math, not Mutant.
Also, I've expressed that I'd join the Mutant-wagon anytime.
Luca, you're not scumreading me. Youwantto scumread me. The question is: why.
The more you post the more I scumread you, to be honest.
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